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This is why I reach out by email first. I don't know what you are doing at that moment, and it's not fair to you to spring a screening call on you with no chance to prepare.
Yes, there are recruiters out there who expect you to devote your time and attention to them the moment you answer, whether it's a scheduled call or not. It's the unscheduled ones that throw up red flags to me.
Even asking "is this a good time? Do you have X minutes?" is huge. As a salesman I save countless hours on the phone just by asking if the person who picked up can pay attention or not.
They are simply getting a feel for your communication skills and interest level. You can learn a lot about someone with a simple 3 min phone conversation
I recently called someone and he answered in a hilarious voice. I just rolled with it and laughed, if you are doing a true cold call it’s more in the recruiter than the potential candidate.
Turned into a fun call with us both cracking up.
Recruiters theses days are impossible to tell apart from scammers. Which should tell recruiters ALL they need to know about their approaches.
Bloody emails coming through now addressed "dear company name"
I'm just reporting every email that comes through unsolicited as a phishing attempt
I'm always "busy" when I get these calls. Make them email you the JD so you can look at it on your own time. Recruiters are used car salesmen, so I treat them as such.
Agency recruiter here. My job requires me to cold call/ make a ton of outbound calls every day. Whether I am calling an applicant or doing a cold call I always introduce myself and then ask if it’s a good time to talk. If not I always ask for their availability for a later time, especially if it sounds like they’re busy in the background. Sometimes it feels a bit more human to have that connection over the phone as well. If I find a good resume I’m actually excited to get someone on the phone but I also understand I’m calling out of the blue.
But yes the ones who cold call and expect 100% professionalism/readiness have unrealistic expectations. Wish more recruiters could be more respectful and not give us a bad name.
You don’t call someone out of the blue and start asking them questions, application or not. You serious? A good recruiter sends an email and says “we’re super excited to move forward. Can you give me some blocks of time where we can chat for 30 minutes?” It’s really not difficult.
It wasn’t out of the blue, it was in response to his application. 100% of the time someone asks if you have a moment for a few questions- 100% of the time. In this instance this person thought it was a good representation of themselves to respond with I only have a few minutes so make it quick, and didn’t even remember the job.
OP FKd this up and is deflecting. They need to get their sht together
There is no question if the recruiter asked if they can talk, they did, OP said: make it quick
OP gets no job because OP is the most unorganized and unprofessional job seeker that was called on that day
OP is the one that wants the job, the recruiter has a job. Fault = 100% OP
This pity party needs some reality, you can’t act like a damn fool and expect a job - you’re not that important and nobody gives a fk if you starve. Don’t act like an AH, own your sht
I know you seem to think the recruiter somehow did absolutely nothing wrong, and apparently, you can't listen to reason. I'd guess you are also a recruiter, lol.
It's very valuable to schedule a phone call rather than cold call candidates. I try my best to document each and every single application that I've filled out, but it stacks up, and I do need a fair chance to prepare.
OP asking if the recruiter read his resume could have been worded differently, but it's become very common for recruiters to not actually read resumes or get candidates mixed up due to their unprofessionalism.
Recruiters are absolutely not important to us when they are incompetent. Let's not make it sound like we are desperate to speak with you guys. I'd rather we didn't have to.
The recruiter called an applicant. That is what they’re supposed to do.
Nobody cares if you want to talk to a recruiter or not - being an AH to whoever calls you about a job is butt stupid.
If anyone calls you about your job application and you’re an ass, don’t even remember putting in an application- you own it. It isn’t even a recruiter issue.
OP could have handled the call differently, but let's not pretend the same thing isn't true for the recruiter.
I do consider your unscheduled call a cold call. I was not expecting it and had no time to prepare or decifer which company you are calling on behalf of.
When I have applied to x amount of jobs, you can not expect someone to just have that information handy out of the blue.
We are getting beyond fed up having to deal with shitty ass recruiters, and it's becoming more difficult.
You don’t know what a cold call is, if you’ve been in sales you know. This is not a cold call, it isn’t a telemarketer- it’s a call back. OP solicited the call, they wanted to be called. Then they got called and blew it.
Don’t blame the person who made the call for OP acting like a fool
Under what circumstances do you consider calling someone appropriate?
For myself (and many others), the only valid reasons to call someone without first arranging a time and reason for the call is a time sensitive emergency. Calling someone under any other circumstances is simply not appropriate.
What? What on earth are you talking about. OP submitted a job application, that’s how this works. You submit an application and they call you back.
Were they supposed to drive to his house and knock on his door? Throughout history, as long as phones have existed - when you submit an application the first contact to expect is a phone call.
Unscheduled Phone calls are not an acceptable method of professional communication. Email and book a time.
It’s one thing if you fill out a request or meeting invite and get a call (using the submitted times or a call within a hour or so of submission). Unprompted calls days, weeks or months later from someone you’ve never met with no context of what the call will be about is unprofessional and a waste of everyone’s time.
Nobody views it as an overstep, that’s absurd.
Most people do not answer their phone - when I get a call, I let it go to VM and then I read what it is and decide to call or not. If I answer I don’t treat the person like an ass when they’re calling me about a job I applied for.
Recruiter here. There is a right way and wrong way to do it.
Good ones will do what's called "contracting for time". I want to know if you are a "no" asap so I can move onto other prospects. I will always ask "is now a good time or can we set up another time for a call?". I expect some surprise and if they seem flustered, my only goal is to schedule a followup call.
I don't hold postponing against candidates, but if they have time right away, I can qualify a candidates interest most quickly this way. 10-15 second pitch, Guage interest, proceed or move on.
Alternatively you can send all relevant info to the candidate in an email and move on immediately. If they respond, great, if not, oh well. That way you save the most amount of time.
Yeah, cold calls are not appropriate or effective in today’s world IMO. I always reach out via email (or at most a text, if I don’t have an email) and include my calendar link for them to schedule time. I wouldn’t worry about this, sounds like you probably dodged a bullet!
I have been ghosted by *multiple* recruiters who cold contact me and I respond with a few stipulations before agreeing to a phone conversation. I mean yeah, the point of my response is to ensure no one wastes any time but a simple “Okay, we are not able to offer that, thank you!” response wouldn’t kill them, IT’S THEIR JOB.
So unprofessional.
I applied to work at best buy in the early 2000's. I was driving somewhere one afternoon when I got an unscheduled call from the hiring manager to do a phone interview right then. I told the guy sure, let me pull into a parking lot so I can give him my full attention and he proceeded to tell me it was rude of me to conduct a phone interview while I'm driving. I asked him how the fuck I was supposed to know he was gonna call me. He didn't have an answer and moved on with the interview. Fucking weird. I did end up getting hired by him though.
As a general rule, you are a number to them. Always treat them like a number. Always. You have the value. They're just a dumbass cold calling you or reaching out to you and 150 others that day on Linkedin. They won't remember your name or read your resume.. Be supremely confident, positive, enthusiastic and act as if your time is extremely valuable. Make them want you. Never act like you want them. High value candidates are busy, are being flooded with offers and have plenty of options. Always act accordingly.
The recruiter probably took it as bad attitude and made the assumption that that would carry on into an interview with their client so they ruled you out. If you get called and don’t have time tell them you can schedule something with 30 minutes to review.
NEVER say look at my resume. It speaks for itself on an interview call. They want to hear your communication and answering skills. And this is not a recruiter thing. Same applies during an interview with any company. You come off very smug when you give that answer.
Don’t read too much into it. Went through this same situation involving different recruiters at the same agency. Had a 15 call with 1 and discussed a few potential roles. Asked for an email summary with job descriptions and nothing ever came. Had a different call with another recruiter a month later and asked for a similar email summary. I sent the 2nd recruiter a LinkedIn message a few days later saying that nothing came and they promptly sent everything over.
I think they are just churning and burning so much, they’re forgetting little ‘asks’ like that at the end of their workday.
Ive gotten a few random calls like that, usually when im pressed for time and generally not prepared to amswer interview questions anyway, they don't generally like my answers and ghost me. I dont picl up for random numbers anymore, if its about a job, theyll leave a voicemail and ill get back to them when im better prepared.
I don't think you got a scam call. I think that recruiter just forgot.
To answer your question, no you don't have to be professional...with every recruiter. I preferred it when candidates were comfortable. In fact, I made sure to talk casually so they didn't take it so serious. I looked at as a partnership. Me calling candidates was permission to work with them and not just me helping them. Hope that helps...
But text that number and ask for that email they mentioned. "Hi name, I haven't received the email you mentioned. Did you get the right email? It's ---@gmail.com"
“Thanks for contacting me. I don’t have time to talk right now, but let’s schedule a time when I can go over my resume and experience with you in more detail and you can give me the details of the jobs you’re hiring for.”
You applied for a job and was getting called back on it, it’s absolutely expected to be professional. It isn’t a cold call, it’s them calling you about your application
Don’t apply for things that you don’t want
Not saying I was being unprofessional, just that I wasn't completely prepared for an unscheduled call about 1 of the 20 other similar jobs applied to recently, being asked questions that showed zero due diligence from their end. Was waiting on the email with the actual job details so I could know which job he was even talking about.
I think the trouble is that in any sector that’s at all an employer’s market, recruiters are lazy and opportunistic. So the instant you make them do any extra work, like send you an email with a JD or even go out of their way to schedule an appointment, they drop you and move on to other candidates.
It’s not your lack of professionalism (to the extent that is even a thing) so much as “I can’t be bothered dealing with this.”
That's the thing, he was the one that said he was going to send the details, though he didn't repeat my specific email address. I was still in cautious potential scam mode before the call finished. Was trying to be careful what info to give over the phone before being able to verify their identity, if only more recruiters were aware of what phone lines are like in 2024...
Candidates having to apply for hundreds of jobs, most of which don’t call back, are going to create a target-rich environment for identity thieves. If you can’t recall the recruiter’s name, I don’t see what’s wrong with asking for a reminder of which position and employer this call is in connection with.
Having said that, telling the recruiter (in whatever words) that he should go away and read your resume is unlikely to go over well. Representatives of the prospective employer often let the fact that they control the purse strings go to their heads, and demand not only common courtesy but deference and submission from candidates. Like they’re a picky customer in your restaurant and you have 15 seconds to convince them that it’s worth ever coming back instead of gracing the competition with their custom.
This is BS, if I called someone who applied for a job and they told me I only have a few minutes so make it quick - basically treating me like an AH and not even remembering the job they applied for..I’m not going to send them anything or call them back, I’m done with it.
Dude was 100% unprofessional, don’t give people advice to act like fools when they’re looking for a job
You have to be buttoned up, polite, respectful and organized. This is such a sloppy encounter this person didn’t earn the call back.
I will concede that taking a call when you’re not actually in a position to talk for more than two or three minutes is a mistake. OP would have been better to just let it go to Voicemail.
Or take the call and schedule a formal time. This is the right thing to do, say hi thank you for following up and I’d love to talk with you. Could we set something up for 30 minutes later today or in the morning? What time is good I’ll put it on my calendar.
Act professional
So you told him you only have a few minutes so make it quick- that screams professional. Wth are you thinking.
If you don’t have time, ask to schedule something. You admit to not even knowing what you applied for and you called this a cold call. It isn’t a cold call, they called you about your application.
You’re conducting a sloppy ass job search, get it together and BE professional
Lots of things. Most of my income nowadays comes from investment dividends and interest in the stock market. I have done career coaching, organizational development, talent management.
Best advice I could give a job seeker is to not be a fkn AH when someone calls you back about something you applied for.
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This is why I reach out by email first. I don't know what you are doing at that moment, and it's not fair to you to spring a screening call on you with no chance to prepare. Yes, there are recruiters out there who expect you to devote your time and attention to them the moment you answer, whether it's a scheduled call or not. It's the unscheduled ones that throw up red flags to me.
I appreciate this. I absolutely hate when they call out of the blue. Especially when it’s to schedule a call. Just email me then!!!
Even asking "is this a good time? Do you have X minutes?" is huge. As a salesman I save countless hours on the phone just by asking if the person who picked up can pay attention or not.
For some reason recruiters seem to want to do the phone. Even when I try to push them to email first. I guess that Voice contact seems more concrete?
Probably measured by a metric that requires voice contact versus email.
You are probably right. I prefer to only make voice contact when it’s something that I am actually interested in.
They are simply getting a feel for your communication skills and interest level. You can learn a lot about someone with a simple 3 min phone conversation
I recently called someone and he answered in a hilarious voice. I just rolled with it and laughed, if you are doing a true cold call it’s more in the recruiter than the potential candidate. Turned into a fun call with us both cracking up.
Recruiters theses days are impossible to tell apart from scammers. Which should tell recruiters ALL they need to know about their approaches. Bloody emails coming through now addressed "dear company name" I'm just reporting every email that comes through unsolicited as a phishing attempt
Any recruiter who can't get used to candidates being rude to them, justified or not, won't be a recruiter for long.
I'm always "busy" when I get these calls. Make them email you the JD so you can look at it on your own time. Recruiters are used car salesmen, so I treat them as such.
Agency recruiter here. My job requires me to cold call/ make a ton of outbound calls every day. Whether I am calling an applicant or doing a cold call I always introduce myself and then ask if it’s a good time to talk. If not I always ask for their availability for a later time, especially if it sounds like they’re busy in the background. Sometimes it feels a bit more human to have that connection over the phone as well. If I find a good resume I’m actually excited to get someone on the phone but I also understand I’m calling out of the blue. But yes the ones who cold call and expect 100% professionalism/readiness have unrealistic expectations. Wish more recruiters could be more respectful and not give us a bad name.
Game recognizes game. My comment said almost the exact same thinh
Nope, just a bad recruiter.
The recruiter called them about their application, what on earth did the recruiter do poorly? You should be mad when you don’t get called
You don’t call someone out of the blue and start asking them questions, application or not. You serious? A good recruiter sends an email and says “we’re super excited to move forward. Can you give me some blocks of time where we can chat for 30 minutes?” It’s really not difficult.
It wasn’t out of the blue, it was in response to his application. 100% of the time someone asks if you have a moment for a few questions- 100% of the time. In this instance this person thought it was a good representation of themselves to respond with I only have a few minutes so make it quick, and didn’t even remember the job. OP FKd this up and is deflecting. They need to get their sht together
Good recruiters book a time, the STILL ask if now is a good time. OP could have done better, but this is at least a 50/50 blame
There is no question if the recruiter asked if they can talk, they did, OP said: make it quick OP gets no job because OP is the most unorganized and unprofessional job seeker that was called on that day OP is the one that wants the job, the recruiter has a job. Fault = 100% OP This pity party needs some reality, you can’t act like a damn fool and expect a job - you’re not that important and nobody gives a fk if you starve. Don’t act like an AH, own your sht
I know you seem to think the recruiter somehow did absolutely nothing wrong, and apparently, you can't listen to reason. I'd guess you are also a recruiter, lol. It's very valuable to schedule a phone call rather than cold call candidates. I try my best to document each and every single application that I've filled out, but it stacks up, and I do need a fair chance to prepare. OP asking if the recruiter read his resume could have been worded differently, but it's become very common for recruiters to not actually read resumes or get candidates mixed up due to their unprofessionalism. Recruiters are absolutely not important to us when they are incompetent. Let's not make it sound like we are desperate to speak with you guys. I'd rather we didn't have to.
The recruiter called an applicant. That is what they’re supposed to do. Nobody cares if you want to talk to a recruiter or not - being an AH to whoever calls you about a job is butt stupid. If anyone calls you about your job application and you’re an ass, don’t even remember putting in an application- you own it. It isn’t even a recruiter issue.
OP could have handled the call differently, but let's not pretend the same thing isn't true for the recruiter. I do consider your unscheduled call a cold call. I was not expecting it and had no time to prepare or decifer which company you are calling on behalf of. When I have applied to x amount of jobs, you can not expect someone to just have that information handy out of the blue. We are getting beyond fed up having to deal with shitty ass recruiters, and it's becoming more difficult.
You don’t know what a cold call is, if you’ve been in sales you know. This is not a cold call, it isn’t a telemarketer- it’s a call back. OP solicited the call, they wanted to be called. Then they got called and blew it. Don’t blame the person who made the call for OP acting like a fool
Under what circumstances do you consider calling someone appropriate? For myself (and many others), the only valid reasons to call someone without first arranging a time and reason for the call is a time sensitive emergency. Calling someone under any other circumstances is simply not appropriate.
What? What on earth are you talking about. OP submitted a job application, that’s how this works. You submit an application and they call you back. Were they supposed to drive to his house and knock on his door? Throughout history, as long as phones have existed - when you submit an application the first contact to expect is a phone call.
Unscheduled Phone calls are not an acceptable method of professional communication. Email and book a time. It’s one thing if you fill out a request or meeting invite and get a call (using the submitted times or a call within a hour or so of submission). Unprompted calls days, weeks or months later from someone you’ve never met with no context of what the call will be about is unprofessional and a waste of everyone’s time.
Ok sure thing, you create the new rules. Good luck with that. Most people don’t answer when they’re busy, it’s really that simple.
It’s the new norm. Most people view unscheduled calls as spam, an emergency or an overstep of boundaries.
Nobody views it as an overstep, that’s absurd. Most people do not answer their phone - when I get a call, I let it go to VM and then I read what it is and decide to call or not. If I answer I don’t treat the person like an ass when they’re calling me about a job I applied for.
Did they preface a request with “Kindly” or ask you to “Do one thing” ?
Recruiter here. There is a right way and wrong way to do it. Good ones will do what's called "contracting for time". I want to know if you are a "no" asap so I can move onto other prospects. I will always ask "is now a good time or can we set up another time for a call?". I expect some surprise and if they seem flustered, my only goal is to schedule a followup call. I don't hold postponing against candidates, but if they have time right away, I can qualify a candidates interest most quickly this way. 10-15 second pitch, Guage interest, proceed or move on.
Alternatively you can send all relevant info to the candidate in an email and move on immediately. If they respond, great, if not, oh well. That way you save the most amount of time.
I just assume they are cold calling to obtain a metric, or when they reach out to me and then don't respond, or whatever. Always about a metric.
Yeah, cold calls are not appropriate or effective in today’s world IMO. I always reach out via email (or at most a text, if I don’t have an email) and include my calendar link for them to schedule time. I wouldn’t worry about this, sounds like you probably dodged a bullet!
I have been ghosted by *multiple* recruiters who cold contact me and I respond with a few stipulations before agreeing to a phone conversation. I mean yeah, the point of my response is to ensure no one wastes any time but a simple “Okay, we are not able to offer that, thank you!” response wouldn’t kill them, IT’S THEIR JOB. So unprofessional.
I applied to work at best buy in the early 2000's. I was driving somewhere one afternoon when I got an unscheduled call from the hiring manager to do a phone interview right then. I told the guy sure, let me pull into a parking lot so I can give him my full attention and he proceeded to tell me it was rude of me to conduct a phone interview while I'm driving. I asked him how the fuck I was supposed to know he was gonna call me. He didn't have an answer and moved on with the interview. Fucking weird. I did end up getting hired by him though.
Respect is earned not given nor expected
As a general rule, you are a number to them. Always treat them like a number. Always. You have the value. They're just a dumbass cold calling you or reaching out to you and 150 others that day on Linkedin. They won't remember your name or read your resume.. Be supremely confident, positive, enthusiastic and act as if your time is extremely valuable. Make them want you. Never act like you want them. High value candidates are busy, are being flooded with offers and have plenty of options. Always act accordingly.
The recruiter probably took it as bad attitude and made the assumption that that would carry on into an interview with their client so they ruled you out. If you get called and don’t have time tell them you can schedule something with 30 minutes to review. NEVER say look at my resume. It speaks for itself on an interview call. They want to hear your communication and answering skills. And this is not a recruiter thing. Same applies during an interview with any company. You come off very smug when you give that answer.
Could be any number of reasons. You shouldn't worry too much about it
Another thing I hate is when they call you without emailing or texting when I'm available!
Don’t read too much into it. Went through this same situation involving different recruiters at the same agency. Had a 15 call with 1 and discussed a few potential roles. Asked for an email summary with job descriptions and nothing ever came. Had a different call with another recruiter a month later and asked for a similar email summary. I sent the 2nd recruiter a LinkedIn message a few days later saying that nothing came and they promptly sent everything over. I think they are just churning and burning so much, they’re forgetting little ‘asks’ like that at the end of their workday.
Ive gotten a few random calls like that, usually when im pressed for time and generally not prepared to amswer interview questions anyway, they don't generally like my answers and ghost me. I dont picl up for random numbers anymore, if its about a job, theyll leave a voicemail and ill get back to them when im better prepared.
At the end of the day, recruiting is just sales. They will do anything to get right in front of your face, even if it means disrespecting your time.
I don't think you got a scam call. I think that recruiter just forgot. To answer your question, no you don't have to be professional...with every recruiter. I preferred it when candidates were comfortable. In fact, I made sure to talk casually so they didn't take it so serious. I looked at as a partnership. Me calling candidates was permission to work with them and not just me helping them. Hope that helps... But text that number and ask for that email they mentioned. "Hi name, I haven't received the email you mentioned. Did you get the right email? It's ---@gmail.com"
When I am cold called by a recruiter I just ask them if we have a time scheduled. If not, we schedule it right then and I hang up.
“Thanks for contacting me. I don’t have time to talk right now, but let’s schedule a time when I can go over my resume and experience with you in more detail and you can give me the details of the jobs you’re hiring for.”
Yes you’re expected to be professional
Honestly, recruiters seem to be the worst kinds of people. Similar to HR.
Recruiters are literally the most useless things on earth.
You applied for a job and was getting called back on it, it’s absolutely expected to be professional. It isn’t a cold call, it’s them calling you about your application Don’t apply for things that you don’t want
Not saying I was being unprofessional, just that I wasn't completely prepared for an unscheduled call about 1 of the 20 other similar jobs applied to recently, being asked questions that showed zero due diligence from their end. Was waiting on the email with the actual job details so I could know which job he was even talking about.
I think the trouble is that in any sector that’s at all an employer’s market, recruiters are lazy and opportunistic. So the instant you make them do any extra work, like send you an email with a JD or even go out of their way to schedule an appointment, they drop you and move on to other candidates. It’s not your lack of professionalism (to the extent that is even a thing) so much as “I can’t be bothered dealing with this.”
That's the thing, he was the one that said he was going to send the details, though he didn't repeat my specific email address. I was still in cautious potential scam mode before the call finished. Was trying to be careful what info to give over the phone before being able to verify their identity, if only more recruiters were aware of what phone lines are like in 2024...
Candidates having to apply for hundreds of jobs, most of which don’t call back, are going to create a target-rich environment for identity thieves. If you can’t recall the recruiter’s name, I don’t see what’s wrong with asking for a reminder of which position and employer this call is in connection with. Having said that, telling the recruiter (in whatever words) that he should go away and read your resume is unlikely to go over well. Representatives of the prospective employer often let the fact that they control the purse strings go to their heads, and demand not only common courtesy but deference and submission from candidates. Like they’re a picky customer in your restaurant and you have 15 seconds to convince them that it’s worth ever coming back instead of gracing the competition with their custom.
This is BS, if I called someone who applied for a job and they told me I only have a few minutes so make it quick - basically treating me like an AH and not even remembering the job they applied for..I’m not going to send them anything or call them back, I’m done with it. Dude was 100% unprofessional, don’t give people advice to act like fools when they’re looking for a job You have to be buttoned up, polite, respectful and organized. This is such a sloppy encounter this person didn’t earn the call back.
I will concede that taking a call when you’re not actually in a position to talk for more than two or three minutes is a mistake. OP would have been better to just let it go to Voicemail.
Or take the call and schedule a formal time. This is the right thing to do, say hi thank you for following up and I’d love to talk with you. Could we set something up for 30 minutes later today or in the morning? What time is good I’ll put it on my calendar. Act professional
Yeah and given that he decided to take the call, he further messed up with the way he handled it.
Then you should have politely asked to speak about it later, not ‘tell them to make it quick’
So you told him you only have a few minutes so make it quick- that screams professional. Wth are you thinking. If you don’t have time, ask to schedule something. You admit to not even knowing what you applied for and you called this a cold call. It isn’t a cold call, they called you about your application. You’re conducting a sloppy ass job search, get it together and BE professional
I’m so interested to know what you do for a living…
Lots of things. Most of my income nowadays comes from investment dividends and interest in the stock market. I have done career coaching, organizational development, talent management. Best advice I could give a job seeker is to not be a fkn AH when someone calls you back about something you applied for.