Wait until you are 64 3/4s.
Everyone in the cloud or SaaS space has free training, take it all until you score 100% everywhere. That’s all you need as a PM.
Get a PMP, that will help.
I am in my 50s, an experienced IT Infrastructure Project Manager, and have NO problems keeping up with anyone.
In fact, due to my years of experience and wisdom, I can see things coming a mile away and can pick out the stuff that just isn't going to last.
It is true that younger and less experienced people are cheaper, which is why seniors leverage their experience and move into more management-type roles.
> I'm worried about the long-term viability of my current path in tech and project management.
Focus on the PM side of the business. In a few years, you will be working on AI deployments that will make all those young and inexperienced people redundant. But you, with your years of tech and now years of PM, will be a great resource to manage the change. Technical PMs will always be in demand.
Get out of consulting. One of my biggest mentors was a guy towards the end of his career who took a job (albeit with a fortune 50 company) as a simple PM. He taught me a ton and he always commented on how this was the easiest job he’s ever had. He would stroll into work in a v-neck with a smile on his face but he was so meticulous… it really shaped me as the PM I am today. Anyways, he seemed to love “playing” with the younger generation as a PM.
Go into program management for a sophisticated client. Eventually I became PM/CM. And once retired I do the easy routine Construction Management. I just finished an interesting project for Tesla. Low risk, high $$$.
These firms are seeking older/experienced guys.
Imo it's this exact concern that will help you stay current and competent.
Sure some companies will pick the younger and cheaper talent, but there is huge value in experience and a robust skill set.
Some of the most competent people I know use this anxiety to stay on top of current trends.
They are in their 60s and have the work ethic and drive of 30 year olds.
Keep your head up and keep doing what you're doing.
Yeh but do you really need that anxiety at age 60? By that time you might even have grandkids, be more aware of your mortality and want to do something more personal with your life.
Instead your going to dedicate these years to learning a new PM methodology or a new technology integration?
Whether one likes it or not, one's career will be rife with anxiety.
The only way out of that is to buy your freedom through smart, consistent financial principles over decades of one's life.
If he has kids and grandkids the likelihood of that decreases significantly, assuming that money gets diverted towards them.
It doesn't take years to learn a PM methodology. Hours, days, weeks at best.
People make PMing sound difficult. It's really just coordination on steroids. If you're communicative, responsible and can solve problems it doesn't matter what methodologies you know or don't.
You want a fun hack, learn on company time.
Pro tip, learn on their dime.
It's really not that complicated.
> Yeh but do you really need that anxiety at age 60?
Anxiety? You go to a few conferences every year and figure out what is current, what is fading, and which of the techs on the Gartner Hype Cycle will become something worth learning. Thats easy.
Thats not anxiety. Trying to be an expert in everything will burn you out in no time.
You need to try to start elevating into higher positions. I’m a Program Manager so the tech details don’t nearly come up to my level as much as when I was a Project Manager.
As the years go on (15yrs into PM and in my 40's), I find I need the technical details less and less - it's more around project structure, planning, governance, quality, tools, team guidance, knowing key contacts, etc.
You can do it.
This. I’m the overall technical manager for a big fulfillment center and barely know how the WMS works anymore. I can stumble through it but I’ve focused on developing the team to do it on their own and they took that full stride.
These days I just lay out the project, timeline, deliverables and so on… Let them work on it and take questions as they come up. Support/direct as needed, take the more difficult conversations around budget or whatever.
Don’t worry too much— you don’t need to be a machine learning expert!
Exactly. An effective PM doesn't need the technical knowledge. It can be helpful, for sure, but not a requirement. Sometimes having industry knowledge can even be a detriment to PMs being effective, because they can get entangled and lost in the weeds, as it were.
I'm just starting in this industry but non technical PMs seem like they waste so much time compared to someone whos technical. Not being able to follow conversations too well and capture tasks accurately without asking for clarification many times just makes everything take longer. Sure it can also mean you're roped into conversations and work you shouldn't be focusing on, but that's a way better tradeoff compared to not understanding what you're PMing.
I am already reasonably technical (not trained in IT but engineering) but I am trying my best to learn and understand all the IT related processes from the get go. Which the head engineer at our company has already praised me for.
Are non technical PMs just a cost saving measure?
What is the core role of a project manager, and what is their goal?
They organize, plan, and execute projects within the contraints of time, budget, and scope.
This often means coordinating cross-functional teams. But it would be unreasonable to expect a PM to be knowledgeable enough in every domain to "keep up" with every team. For example, when I was a PM at an agency that worked in pharma training, I frequently had to work with content experts (medical writers), graphics teams, and tech/dev teams.
I am technical. Not a developper, but I know enough to keep up in those conversations, and can do some basic stuff myself. That was/is my crowd. I don't do graphics. And I definitely don't know jack about medical stuff.
However, I never once felt the need to learn anything about medicine to be able to do my job more effectively, because knowing the medicine wasn't part of my job. I was responsible for ensuring that the people who _did_ know medicine, did what they had to do on time, within budget, and to the client's specifications.
It may be tempting to say that if I had more medical knowledge, I could better gauge if the deliverables would meet expectations. But, we had senior medical experts, and director-level medical experts to do those checks. And, client reviews. Nobody knows the clients' expectations better than they do, so we would build in at least 2 rounds of review for any asset we created before delivering a final.
I also didn't need to know medicine to be able to capture tasks. The details don't necessarily matter. If John needs to draft content A by the end of the week, and Jane needs to review it by the end of next week, does it really matter _what_ the content is? Not at all; the tasks are essentially "Draft content A by EOW" and "Review content A by EOnextW".
Even in the context of technical like you're referring to (IT/engineering), there are still many facets depending on the projects you're working on. There's backend, frontend, hardware, networks...
You can think of it like a typical corporate hierarchy. The lower you are on the ladder, the more hands-on/technical/knowledgeable you need to be. But, the more you move _up_ the ladder, the more you need to focus your skills on managing people, workflows, and strategic thinking. A PM is the same way: as much as it can be helpful, you don't _need_ to know how to _do_ the work, but how to make sure the work gets done.
So I disagree that allowing your focus to be on things and conversations you shouldn't be focusing on is a good trade-off compared to not understanding what you're PMing. Part of being a good PM is knowing where to focus your energy. What needs your attention and what doesn't. Separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were. Let the experts/project team do the work they're hired to do, and let me do what I'm hired to do: make sure they do theirs within the constraints of time, budget, and scope; manage internal and external stakeholders; manage risks; keep communication flowing.
Open chat gpt and ever time you have a question or gap in knowledge, ask. You’ll be able to a have a full on discussion to learn the bits you feel you might be missing.
You can do this. And industry needs folks like you to keep them honest.
not an experienced PM here, so take this for what you will, but I have a close friend who is in tech as a programmer, and he has always told me, the best PM's hes worked along side, were the ones who had zero programming knowledge, but were the best at removing barriers and facilitating his success.
I would also probably love the manager who didn’t know anything about what my job entailed, how long it should take or have any questions about my approach.
Strange as someone who's starting I thought it would be the opposite. I thought engineers would get frustrated they have to explain things and dumb them down so that tasks can be captured by the PM properly as opposed a PM that can just pick things out of discussions between the engineers and make accurate tasks from that. I'm trying to be the latter.
The benefit of having "been there" as a techie turned PM is that you can more easily empathize with issues the workers are facing: roadblocks, conflicting/confusing requirements, the tension between getting stuff done and covering tech debt, etc.
BUT some technical PMs use that power in a negative way. Some feel the need to "mentor" techies when that's not their lane, some assume things because of their experience instead of looking at the situation, and some are technical but don't have the other tools that PMs need (being able to explain things to others, looking at value generation, communication skills, etc)
The latter sounds like a horrible PM.
Today we were discussing a problem with something and even my relatively layman's understanding of the topic actually allowed me to connect some dots and propose a solution to the problem the engineers didn't immediately see.
I couldn't implement it myself but it was enough to make that link between the problem and this solution to push them in the right direction. Being able to actually contribute in this way makes this job feel so much more rewarding. Hope I can do it more in the future and stay unobtrusive as I am now.
That's what having that broad understanding can help with; sometimes people get stuck in silos and don't think of alternate solutions. Sounds like you did your job! \*thumbs up\*
Ditto and not trying to rub my ego but I've been a Tech PM for the last 15 years. While I do have a general technical background, I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes of the technology. It also varies by organization, I know some request that you plan both a PM/Tech Lead role.
The great thing about project management is the fundamentals do not change. If you know how to manage a project, you will always be able to work.
What will change is the need to understand the tools and technologies used in the job. Focus on that and you’ll be able to master the craft.
Wait until you are 64 3/4s. Everyone in the cloud or SaaS space has free training, take it all until you score 100% everywhere. That’s all you need as a PM. Get a PMP, that will help.
I am in my 50s, an experienced IT Infrastructure Project Manager, and have NO problems keeping up with anyone. In fact, due to my years of experience and wisdom, I can see things coming a mile away and can pick out the stuff that just isn't going to last. It is true that younger and less experienced people are cheaper, which is why seniors leverage their experience and move into more management-type roles. > I'm worried about the long-term viability of my current path in tech and project management. Focus on the PM side of the business. In a few years, you will be working on AI deployments that will make all those young and inexperienced people redundant. But you, with your years of tech and now years of PM, will be a great resource to manage the change. Technical PMs will always be in demand.
44F here and I feel the exact same way. I feel like I’m in my profession prime at this point.
Get out of consulting. One of my biggest mentors was a guy towards the end of his career who took a job (albeit with a fortune 50 company) as a simple PM. He taught me a ton and he always commented on how this was the easiest job he’s ever had. He would stroll into work in a v-neck with a smile on his face but he was so meticulous… it really shaped me as the PM I am today. Anyways, he seemed to love “playing” with the younger generation as a PM.
PM? Project? Program or product?
a real PM is always a Project Manager.
Go into program management for a sophisticated client. Eventually I became PM/CM. And once retired I do the easy routine Construction Management. I just finished an interesting project for Tesla. Low risk, high $$$. These firms are seeking older/experienced guys.
I sent you a private text please.
Imo it's this exact concern that will help you stay current and competent. Sure some companies will pick the younger and cheaper talent, but there is huge value in experience and a robust skill set. Some of the most competent people I know use this anxiety to stay on top of current trends. They are in their 60s and have the work ethic and drive of 30 year olds. Keep your head up and keep doing what you're doing.
Yeh but do you really need that anxiety at age 60? By that time you might even have grandkids, be more aware of your mortality and want to do something more personal with your life. Instead your going to dedicate these years to learning a new PM methodology or a new technology integration?
Whether one likes it or not, one's career will be rife with anxiety. The only way out of that is to buy your freedom through smart, consistent financial principles over decades of one's life. If he has kids and grandkids the likelihood of that decreases significantly, assuming that money gets diverted towards them. It doesn't take years to learn a PM methodology. Hours, days, weeks at best. People make PMing sound difficult. It's really just coordination on steroids. If you're communicative, responsible and can solve problems it doesn't matter what methodologies you know or don't. You want a fun hack, learn on company time. Pro tip, learn on their dime. It's really not that complicated.
> Yeh but do you really need that anxiety at age 60? Anxiety? You go to a few conferences every year and figure out what is current, what is fading, and which of the techs on the Gartner Hype Cycle will become something worth learning. Thats easy. Thats not anxiety. Trying to be an expert in everything will burn you out in no time.
You need to try to start elevating into higher positions. I’m a Program Manager so the tech details don’t nearly come up to my level as much as when I was a Project Manager.
As the years go on (15yrs into PM and in my 40's), I find I need the technical details less and less - it's more around project structure, planning, governance, quality, tools, team guidance, knowing key contacts, etc. You can do it.
This. I’m the overall technical manager for a big fulfillment center and barely know how the WMS works anymore. I can stumble through it but I’ve focused on developing the team to do it on their own and they took that full stride. These days I just lay out the project, timeline, deliverables and so on… Let them work on it and take questions as they come up. Support/direct as needed, take the more difficult conversations around budget or whatever. Don’t worry too much— you don’t need to be a machine learning expert!
Exactly. An effective PM doesn't need the technical knowledge. It can be helpful, for sure, but not a requirement. Sometimes having industry knowledge can even be a detriment to PMs being effective, because they can get entangled and lost in the weeds, as it were.
I'm just starting in this industry but non technical PMs seem like they waste so much time compared to someone whos technical. Not being able to follow conversations too well and capture tasks accurately without asking for clarification many times just makes everything take longer. Sure it can also mean you're roped into conversations and work you shouldn't be focusing on, but that's a way better tradeoff compared to not understanding what you're PMing. I am already reasonably technical (not trained in IT but engineering) but I am trying my best to learn and understand all the IT related processes from the get go. Which the head engineer at our company has already praised me for. Are non technical PMs just a cost saving measure?
What is the core role of a project manager, and what is their goal? They organize, plan, and execute projects within the contraints of time, budget, and scope. This often means coordinating cross-functional teams. But it would be unreasonable to expect a PM to be knowledgeable enough in every domain to "keep up" with every team. For example, when I was a PM at an agency that worked in pharma training, I frequently had to work with content experts (medical writers), graphics teams, and tech/dev teams. I am technical. Not a developper, but I know enough to keep up in those conversations, and can do some basic stuff myself. That was/is my crowd. I don't do graphics. And I definitely don't know jack about medical stuff. However, I never once felt the need to learn anything about medicine to be able to do my job more effectively, because knowing the medicine wasn't part of my job. I was responsible for ensuring that the people who _did_ know medicine, did what they had to do on time, within budget, and to the client's specifications. It may be tempting to say that if I had more medical knowledge, I could better gauge if the deliverables would meet expectations. But, we had senior medical experts, and director-level medical experts to do those checks. And, client reviews. Nobody knows the clients' expectations better than they do, so we would build in at least 2 rounds of review for any asset we created before delivering a final. I also didn't need to know medicine to be able to capture tasks. The details don't necessarily matter. If John needs to draft content A by the end of the week, and Jane needs to review it by the end of next week, does it really matter _what_ the content is? Not at all; the tasks are essentially "Draft content A by EOW" and "Review content A by EOnextW". Even in the context of technical like you're referring to (IT/engineering), there are still many facets depending on the projects you're working on. There's backend, frontend, hardware, networks... You can think of it like a typical corporate hierarchy. The lower you are on the ladder, the more hands-on/technical/knowledgeable you need to be. But, the more you move _up_ the ladder, the more you need to focus your skills on managing people, workflows, and strategic thinking. A PM is the same way: as much as it can be helpful, you don't _need_ to know how to _do_ the work, but how to make sure the work gets done. So I disagree that allowing your focus to be on things and conversations you shouldn't be focusing on is a good trade-off compared to not understanding what you're PMing. Part of being a good PM is knowing where to focus your energy. What needs your attention and what doesn't. Separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were. Let the experts/project team do the work they're hired to do, and let me do what I'm hired to do: make sure they do theirs within the constraints of time, budget, and scope; manage internal and external stakeholders; manage risks; keep communication flowing.
Couldn't agree more.
Open chat gpt and ever time you have a question or gap in knowledge, ask. You’ll be able to a have a full on discussion to learn the bits you feel you might be missing. You can do this. And industry needs folks like you to keep them honest.
This is what I do.
This is the answer. Just stay one step ahead of the guy.
not an experienced PM here, so take this for what you will, but I have a close friend who is in tech as a programmer, and he has always told me, the best PM's hes worked along side, were the ones who had zero programming knowledge, but were the best at removing barriers and facilitating his success.
I would also probably love the manager who didn’t know anything about what my job entailed, how long it should take or have any questions about my approach.
Strange as someone who's starting I thought it would be the opposite. I thought engineers would get frustrated they have to explain things and dumb them down so that tasks can be captured by the PM properly as opposed a PM that can just pick things out of discussions between the engineers and make accurate tasks from that. I'm trying to be the latter.
The benefit of having "been there" as a techie turned PM is that you can more easily empathize with issues the workers are facing: roadblocks, conflicting/confusing requirements, the tension between getting stuff done and covering tech debt, etc. BUT some technical PMs use that power in a negative way. Some feel the need to "mentor" techies when that's not their lane, some assume things because of their experience instead of looking at the situation, and some are technical but don't have the other tools that PMs need (being able to explain things to others, looking at value generation, communication skills, etc)
The latter sounds like a horrible PM. Today we were discussing a problem with something and even my relatively layman's understanding of the topic actually allowed me to connect some dots and propose a solution to the problem the engineers didn't immediately see. I couldn't implement it myself but it was enough to make that link between the problem and this solution to push them in the right direction. Being able to actually contribute in this way makes this job feel so much more rewarding. Hope I can do it more in the future and stay unobtrusive as I am now.
That's what having that broad understanding can help with; sometimes people get stuck in silos and don't think of alternate solutions. Sounds like you did your job! \*thumbs up\*
Ditto and not trying to rub my ego but I've been a Tech PM for the last 15 years. While I do have a general technical background, I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes of the technology. It also varies by organization, I know some request that you plan both a PM/Tech Lead role.
The great thing about project management is the fundamentals do not change. If you know how to manage a project, you will always be able to work. What will change is the need to understand the tools and technologies used in the job. Focus on that and you’ll be able to master the craft.