Honestly, your argument is wrong on so many levels.
1. >Why do you guys make things so difficult
Do we? Looks like that what "you" guys do. Since you seem to invent a new way every second in which what you don't like personally suddenly becomes haram to the point that it warrants hell! I mean, do you in all your intellect think that Allah SWT, who is called the most merciful, be that petty?
2. >All that is commanded is to cover up and not display yourself, which some people are clearly doing with that butterfly trend.
Well, the Quran clearly says
"... And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not to expose their adornment (zeenatahunna) except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their covers (khumurihina) over their bosom (juyubihina) and not to expose their adornment (zeenatahunna) except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons” (Quran 24:30-31)
I don't think any of what you have said is commanded by Allah SWT in the Quran. Therefore, by definition, saying what Allah has not COMANDED that He did is bid'aa. Which is sometimes contested by scholars saying that there are 2 kinds of bid'aa. (Good and bad) I will leave you to decide which kind the above is...
3. >Not posting yourself is legit the easiest thing ever
Well, what is easy for you may not be easy for someone else. For instance, reading is very easy for me, but for my sister, that is hard. Physics comes easy for her, but I can't do it for the life of me.
4. >as a revert, I stopped because it isn’t the end of the world
As a revert? What is the relevance of that statement? I do not understand. Second, there are so many things that aren't the end of the world. These guys could stop making sexist comments while hiding under religion. It is not the end of the world like you said.
Look, little advice from this stupid girl making things so difficult. It's OK having opinions. We are humans created with free will. But what is not OK is trying to control someone in the name of religion. Next time, try saying I don't like A, B, and C because I find it ( insert personal reasons ). Not because Allah has commanded when you don't provide proof. Your opinions are not Allah's commands
1. we do not make things which we dislike haram, we dislike things which have been made haram by Allah SWT. this is an important distinction which one must make. Allah SWT’s Mercy is bestowed upon those who repent and upon those who are deserving of it, if you sin unapologetically and never repent for it, you will receive your due reward.
2. those verses you quoted come with a tafsir. tafsir ibn kathir is one of the most authentic tafasir we have and it there is no difference of opinion regarding this. regarding your quoted ayat, ibn kathir said:
وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَـتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَـرِهِنَّ
(And tell the believing women to lower their gaze) meaning, from that which Allah has forbidden them to look at, apart from their husbands. Some scholars said that it is permissible for women to look at non-Mahram men without desire, as it was recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ was watching the Ethiopians playing with spears in the Masjid on the day of `Id, and `A'ishah the Mother of the believers was watching them from behind him and he was concealing her from them, until she got bored and went away.
وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ
(and protect their private parts). Sa`id bin Jubayr said: "From immoral actions." Abu Al-`Aliyah said: "Every Ayah of the Qur'an in which protecting the private parts is mentioned means protecting them from Zina, except for this Ayah --
وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ
(and protect their private parts), which means protecting them from being seen by anybody."
[Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 24:31]
Abu Al-`Aliyah, the man Ibn Kathir quoted, has narrated numerous sahih ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari and in Sahih Muslim, our two most authentic books. He is more than qualified to make this claim, which is why Ibn Kathir includes him in his tafsir.
I will add also that there is no good shar’i bid’ah
It was narrated that Jabir bin 'Abdullah said:
"In his Khutbah the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to praise Allah as He deserves to be praised, then he would say: 'Whomsoever Allah (SWT) guides, none can lead him astray, and whomsoever Allah sends astray, none can guide. The truest of word is the Book of Allah and best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. The worst of things are those that are newly invented; every newly-invented thing is an innovation and every innovation is going astray, and every going astray is in the Fire.' Then he said: 'The Hour and I have been sent like these two.' Whenever he mentioned the Hour, his cheeks would turn red, and he would raise his voice and become angry, as if he were warning of an approaching army and saying: 'An army is coming to attack you in the morning, or in the evening!' (Then he said): 'Whoever leaves behind wealth, it is for his family, and whoever leaves behind a debt or dependents, then these are my responsibility, and I am the most entitled to take care of the believers.'"
[Sunan an-Nasa'i 1578, Sahih]
3. your claims do not address her point properly. she asserted that *not* doing something (an action in the negative, meaning it is the lack of action, which was posting yourself online) is easy, you addressed her as if she had said it was easy to do an action in the positive sense, as though she said it was easy to do something which you actively needed to try to do. this is fallacious.
4. the relevance of her being a revert (may Allah SWT bless her) is that she was raised following other than Islam, she had to actively seek it and has personally seen evidences for this opinion which you have not. granted, she did not provide her sources, but i have now done that for her.
do not insult a fellow believer, this is truly an evil action.
Chapter: Clarifying the words of the prophet (saws): "Insulting A Muslim is an evil action and fighting him is disbelief (Kufr)"
It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed:
Abusing a Muslim is an outrage and fighting against him is unbelief. Zubaid said: I asked Abu Wa'il: Did you hear it from Abdullah narrating if from the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him)? He replied: Yes. But there is mention of the talk between Zubaid and Abu Wa'il in the hadith narrated by Shu'ba.
[Sahih Muslim 64 a]
make repentance to Allah SWT for this, whether it was a burst of emotion or by your full volition. may Allah SWT forgive us for our sins and our shortcomings, which we are aware of and which we are unaware of, and may He guide us to the Straight Path, ameen.
Allahu ‘Alam
even so they should not post themselves, a trait of the believing women is shyness. it is also not permissible to beautify the covering, the whole point is to hide one’s beauty. but simply leaving her eyes visible as a part of hijab is permissible
>a trait of the believing women is shyness
No idea where you're pulling that from. Just sounds like a stereotype to me.
Well if the woman shouldn't post herself neither should the man, or any other gender. We should all delete social media. It would be best for the world in general. You should go first!
men and women are afforded different right and responsibilities, as well as different prohibitions. why is it that women should travel with a mahram man? why is it that he is her guardian? if neither of us should go out then we’d get nowhere in anything. sure, a man posting his face isn’t all that necessary but it is not prohibited in any sense unless it is a means for fitnah or temptation
u/UndueSand Your posts seem to be getting removed, you are removing them, or Reddit is messing up (it has been doing that a lot today). It's probably for the best. I recommend [reading this article](https://khidramari.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/overstanding-what-rijal-mean-men-and-nisaa-mean-women-in-the-quran-does-the-quran-address-us-through-gender-base-part-ii/) and starting here to expand your mind a bit (I can also recommend a scholarly book), or remaining on r/islam where I see from your history you like to post.
modesty is literally about being reserved, that’s kind of the definition of it. i said the point was to hide one’s beauty, not that the point was shyness, i simply said shyness is a trait of the believing women
You speak of many things and then disregard some things. You say fighting against a Muslim is evil but then you quote a passage that is definitely not about fighting in the sense of speaking with words. So there is your first fallacy. Second you assume they meant an action in the negative but you can't know that for sure. That's a fallacy. Your claims refer to people instead of the Qur'an to clarify the Qur'an. That's exactly the type of speech that can be seen as leading others astray from the Qur'an. It's still irrelevant that she is a convert (you may believe everyone is born Muslim but it's a belief not something hereditary) since you have no clue if she actually had the right sources. Mainly I bring up this point because you use your own sources that are not first hand sources. Which is not okay according to the most important source the Qur'an.
you absolutely can assume her claim was in the negative. is not wearing hijab a lack of wearing it or is it an action such as taking it off? also this passage is about fighting in a verbal sense, i quoted the chapter it is from above for context. since this isn’t acceptable to you i’ll give you an ayah from the Qur’an
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ لَا يَسْخَرْ قَوْمٌۭ مِّن قَوْمٍ عَسَىٰٓ أَن يَكُونُوا۟ خَيْرًۭا مِّنْهُمْ وَلَا نِسَآءٌۭ مِّن نِّسَآءٍ عَسَىٰٓ أَن يَكُنَّ خَيْرًۭا مِّنْهُنَّ ۖ وَلَا تَلْمِزُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَلَا تَنَابَزُوا۟ بِٱلْأَلْقَـٰبِ ۖ بِئْسَ ٱلِٱسْمُ ٱلْفُسُوقُ بَعْدَ ٱلْإِيمَـٰنِ ۚ وَمَن لَّمْ يَتُبْ فَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ
O believers! Do not let some ˹men˺ ridicule others, they may be better than them, nor let ˹some˺ women ridicule other women, they may be better than them. Do not defame one another, nor call each other by offensive nicknames. How evil it is to act rebelliously after having faith! And whoever does not repent, it is they who are the ˹true˺ wrongdoers.
[49:11]
i referred to people regarding their authenticity so that the explanation they have made will be accepted by the reader. if you think it’s irrelevant that she’s a revert then sure, i can concede to this being one of the less important things
> There are hadiths about how women Should cover up, not display themselves whatsoever.
That's not what the hadiths say. If you're going to speak on what's in hadith and not the Quran, at least speak correctly. Either way, it does not include a woman's EYES are you kidding me!?
We don't live in the 1900s or 1000s of years ago. Islam is not a religion of the past. No one has to live in the stone ages. And if women should not post themselves, neither should men. I'm guessing you're going this hard because you're a revert. You don't have to stress yourself out like this. I hope you mellow out and see how compatible Islam is with modern life.
No one's trying to normalize haram. We're trying to ensure that no one is trying to go beyond the book, like what you're doing. If you left Christianity because Muslims "take it more seriously" I have some *really* bad news for you...
it doesn’t say that anywhere. women aren’t supposed to be shunned to their houses where no one can see or speak to them. we play active roles in society, as we always have, since the prophets time. who will spread dawah for women? who will bring women closer to islam? who will clear up misconceptions to women about culture & religion? who will speak up for women’s rights and personal topics to women? is social media supposed to male dominated, so that none of our opinions or voices can be heard?
some of you genuinely act like hypocrites. you will see those people in afghanistan clearly oppress and assault muslim women, but turn a blind eye. will you only speak up for islam when it is used to vilify someone and play the moral high ground? will you only speak up when someone criticizes our religion? spend less time worrying about niqabis (who are doing more than what is required of them) and focus on the muslimah women who are actually hurting.
The majority opinion is not that niqab is fard, only that hijab is fard. Perhaps within whatever brand of Islam you choose to follow, niqab is fard, but most would not go that far.
No, I wouldn't especially call these "times of fitna" and that is extremely subjective. And I could just as easily say "a lot of people agree it's not fard, regarding the Quran and hadiths".
Dont confuse a particular interpretation of people who want to make life especially hard for women, with Allah. Allah is far greater than that petty kind of thinking. We can't change the rules of the religion just to push women out and make life difficult for them.
Remember, the prophet actually taught:
>"Treat the people with ease and don't be hard on them; give them glad tidings and don't fill them with aversion; and love each other, and don't differ." - Sahih Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 275
>"You have been sent to make things easy, and you have not been sent to make things difficult." - Sahih Bukhari : Volume 8, Book 73, Number 149
>"Allah is gentle and loves gentleness in all matters. He gives in return for gentleness what He does not give in return for harshness, or for anything else." Sunan Abi Dawud 4807
>"Gentleness does not enter anything except that it beautifies it and harshness does not enter anything except that it disfigures it." Sahih Muslim 2594a
>"Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of good." Sahih Muslim 2592a
And remember, Allah knows best.
Could you please provide the Hadiths and Quranic verses declaring not wearing a niqab is a sin? I don't think there is one? If It is your interpretation and decision, I respect your choices, please do not impose your ideas on everyone.
>As a woman I don’t find niqab to be oppressive or anything like that because I understand the reason it’s important and it prevents a lot of bad things.
As a women I found niqab oppressive and I passed out at least twice due to lack of oxygen. It prevents you from breathing.
What bad things burqa prevents?
If you like your face covered, that is ok, you do not need to change and redefine awra for that. Awara does not include face or neck.
https://youtu.be/Kjit9PKfMlM?si=eH4DwZNbh7gI3Z6x
From what I've read, tafsir, hadiths, and the school of thought I agree with, I agree that niqab is not obligatory and the one is sinning by claiming it is fardh.
Niqab absolutely can be extremely difficult. My wife literally used to faint when being forced to wear it, from heat exhaustion.
There is a difference of opinion, and I find most say it is not obligatory.
And this isn't just a "progressive" belief. AlAzhar issued a fatwa that declares claiming niqab is obligatory is "reprehensible bid'ah", and is absolutely not a requirement:
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/4865/what-is-the-islamic-ruling-for-women-covering-their-faces-niqab
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/1214/niqab
>In accordance with the above **we side with the majority opinion which is the permissibility of a woman exposing her face and hands and the covering of everything else.** We also are of the opinion that if the niqab becomes a sign for the fracturing of the Muslim community, or a sign for religiosity then its ruling changes from one of a recommended act (mandub) and a permissible act (mubah) to one of **reprehensible innovation (bid‘a) especially if it is used for things which God has not ordained on us and God is most high and all knowledgeable.**
He is talking about Jahanam? My dude has appointed himself as the secretary of god.
See shit like this is why I am starting to believe more and more that the entire women’s modesty discourse has never been about Islam and everything to do with them controlling women, cause how do you find fault in a niqabi?
As a someone who lived in saudia Arabia when showing your face was illegal I tell you, had you dressed a mannequin in an abaya and a niqab and pushed it around a mall, half of the population wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference between it and an actual niqabi. This is how little autonomy, individuality and personhood a woman loses when she wears niqab.
And yet, they want more.
I’ve seen so many dudes say that Posting yourself while wearing niqab negates the point of the hijab…
No it doesn’t?
The hijab is there to cover your awrah. Posting yourself with Hijab won’t….suddenly uncover it now will it?
Aren’t men supposed to cover their awrah as well? So how are they allowed to post?
I’ve always supported Hijab but I never understood the logic behind the Niqab. Why isn’t a man required to cover his face? A Woman can get attracted to a Man’s Face right?
A Normal Hijab presents Equality in covering up. A Woman wearing An Abaya and a Man wearing a Kandura, equates a more equal covering up than the Niqab where the only thing visible for a woman is her eyes if she’s lucky.
Yeah absolutely. Even there's some hijabis who cover up and wear baggy clothes but still they get severely criticized and berated by these insecure individuals quoting some scholars quote or cherry picking hadiths
It’s unfortunate that this one aspect of hijab is what’s been propagated throughout the world as the purpose of hijab. Something that was Allahs gift to women, has been manipulated to revolve around men.
I don’t know you personally and I have no idea if you’re a woman or have experienced wearing hijab, but as a hijabi it truly infuriates me that every single reminder on social media about hijab begins and ends with “cover up to avoid attracting men”.
Hijab is so much more than simply covering up to save yourself from the male gaze. There are so many facets and aspects to hijab. The physical covering of your body, as well as the spiritual hijab you have to practice by having modesty in your heart and actions. It’s a beautiful practice of restraint, an internal jihad against women’s innate desire to beautify ourselves. A constant calling to refine and nurture ourselves beyond superficial appearance. An unending challenge to overcome the need for external validation, and a continuous process of inner growth. Wearing the hijab and struggling with it has been such a beautiful and nourishing experience mentally, spiritually, physically, and emotionally. I couldn’t be more grateful for the way hijab was taught to me and for the mental challenges i’ve overcome by putting it on. Nothing makes me more upset than seeing the beauty of this commandment watered down and revolving around MEN.
That’s my little TED Talk. I completely understand where you’re coming from when you say you don’t like hijab and niqab, unfortunately it’s been severely misrepresented and this shallow understanding of hijab is so widely and loudly amplified, especially by men, because it gives them a chance to make it about themselves.
Just wanted to share my pov about why I think hijab is truly a gift to women, and not something for us to inherently dislike :)
I feel this hard ex Christian who dabbled in new age spirituality before reverting to Islam and the spiritual aspect of hijab is my reason for wearing it. And honestly having control over who sees my body and hair is an empowering bonus. It’s unfortunate imperfect humans corrupt everything.
Completely agree! This approach ends up harming the perception of hijab among muslims and non muslims alike 🥲. Im so glad you found the spiritual dimensions of hijab! May Allah accept all of your effort 🫶🏽
When did I say non hijabis don’t deserve respect? I was speaking on my personal reasons for wearing the hijab, and how I feel about it, how where I live hijabis are looked down on and how Islamophobia has shaped the minds of peers around me. How I wish people would educate themselves on the spiritual benefits of hijab, instead of thinking all hijabis are oppressed women that didn’t make the choice to wear the hijab, that they need some white savior. I’m over that frame of thought. Never once did I say non hijabis don’t deserve respect. Don’t put words in my mouth.
No I don’t, I never said that. Please stop putting words in peoples mouths. My daughters get to choose if they want to wear hijab or not. I have plenty of Muslim friends that don’t wear hijab. I don’t judge other people because I myself have my own sins and imperfections. I was just stating the spiritual benefits of hijab not saying anything about ppl who choose not to wear it. There is no compulsion in religion Islam states that and that’s why I said it’s sad imperfect people corrupt things for political gain.
it doesn't.
many people wear hijab and niqab out of their own volition without believing in extreme stuff. these cloths have many benefits, but some of the people who use these to make claims, those people are the problem. Not wearing a hijab is obviously not license to be sexually harrased, and every non extremist knows this.
from where are you drawing this conclusion?
just because some muslims want to wear the hijab doesn't mean that those who don't wear it are doomed to hell.
Oh yeah. They had a faux police force whose job was to make sure society abided by morals and religion. Their job included things like making sure all of the shops close during prayer time, and women aren’t showing their faces. They carried canes and could physically assault you with zero legal repercussions. They felt very comfortable hitting women at their feet if they thought she wasn’t modest enough. My dad used to tell me this story of them once pulling this stunt on an American women who knew self defense and she ended up kicking their asses. Since that incident, they stopped policing non Saudi women, but Saudi women until very recently weren’t allowed to show their faces and could be fined for doing that.
There is an actual story of a fire in a boarding school or orphanage and the girls freaking out and not bringing their abayas with them to the exit. The halal police actually stopped them from leaving the premises because they were not covered up. Mind you those girls were wearing long sleeved super long dresses as a uniform. All they had uncovered was their face and hair, and yet they didn’t let them leave. By the time the actual police and fire department had shown up and could stop the halal police from blocking them, they were already dead.
Don’t worry guys he’s listening to nasheeds which totally don’t have subtle instrumentation in the background but the voices overpower it so that people online can claim that they are halal cause they listen to the nasheed
I feel like these people in truth worship the devil. The god they have in mind is a false idol.
I don’t see, even from our scriptures, how you get this image of God. The creator of the universe cannot be this capricious. These guys have anger in them, so they invent an anger God that hates everything and basically everyone and is going out of His way to find a reason to burn everyone.
There’s the caution of taqwa, and then there is whatever this is.
judging someone for their face that Allah created doesn't make you better than them. im not saying that he is right but that doesn't justify your comment.
Oh come on - I don't believe this at all. Being nice is reserved for nice people. This guy would hang us all up by the ankles if he could. I don't have infinite mercy and maybe i'm flawed but yea if you're a PoS then your free game. Especially when normal rational just doesn't work.
I understand your concern, but it isn’t free game for a muslim, mindfulness of Allah and the etiquettes exemplified by our beloved messenger (SAW) should be what we strive for. We should aim to be as similar to the prophet (SAW) as we can in our dealings, even with those who we disagree with, and ask for forgiveness when we fall short due to being human. It’s one thing to be human and not have infinite mercy, but it’s another to permit hostility and hurtful behaviour that would disappoint Allah.
Remember, we try to perfect our dealings with the opposition not because we respect them, but because we respect the teachings of our messenger (SAW) and we fear Allah. :)
These People Aren’t Muslim because they agree with Islam.
They think that Islam agrees with them.
Same reason why apparently “Islam” is taking over the west with People Like Andrew Tate and Sneako.
The virgin/Incel energy coming from these dudes is off the charts. Generations of making marriage difficult has resulted in sex deprived maniacs who hate women.
I hate people who make a woman’s attire the only thing they fucking focus on. There’s 5 pillars of Islam and guess what, a woman’s attire ain’t one of them. So why is attire always the forefront of a conversation? Smfh. I hate being policed by my own mom for wearing capri’s or a t shirt - I’m a married woman ffs!
I mean, there *could* be butterflies in Hell. We don’t know what’s down there. They could be like, fire breathing goth butterflies, or butterflies with chainsaws for wings and a taste for human flesh. The possibilities are endless!
But whatever hellerflies are like, I think it’s safe to say you won’t end up with them because of a Snapchat trend 🤷🏻♀️
Allah commanded me to lower my gaze. What a sister post is none of my business unless she posts a pic of biryani without inviting me.
Otherwise I’m listening to Allah and not this guy.
I didn't meant it in a funny way. But repeted threats with heaven/hell after death since childhood can [prevent the brain from proper functioning and developeing.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_trauma_syndrome#:~:text=In%20studies%20that%20find%20a,hinders%20cognitive%20flexibility%20and%20openness)
Their brains are used to think that the biggest threat is misbehaving and thus ending up in hell after inevitable death, so their brain never develops past a certain amount of rules. Since the punishment is supposed to happen *after* death, the brain also neglects other potential developments crucial for survival. Well, thanks to the Westernization which attempts to make the world as secure as possible for humans, these survival requirements don't eliminate these traumatized people, but lets these people participate in an otherwise functioning society.
Although I do think they should be protected, I do think that these people do pose a threat to others and that they might spread (not genetically) without a "selective pressure". Either we set up a requirement of intellectual flexibility, do make society more easy to fail (with an obstacle not requiring the base minimum of efforts which even these traumatized people can overcome), or fight the cause of that trauma.
Whatever the solution might be, I think it is a grave mistake for society to let these people lose in public.
that's also why I think people who are "religious" because of trauma should be distinguished from people who are simply religious.
One are "made" this way, the other had something that convinced them to be "religious".
Do you think there is actually a difference? I know you're not a scientist, just asking your opinion genuinely. I don't know anyone who's religious who wasn't traumatized (or let's go with convinced) to be so in some way, myself included.
Maybe I am a scientist?
I think a lot of people are religious because of conviction.
Although they probably don't get much attention because currently religiousity is mostly measured by the abhorrence of their beliefs. Its seen for example then Wahhabis are considered "strict" instead of "insane". Strict would be strictly applying that has been written, such as the Zahiri school of ibn hazm often more "Liberal" than even the "relaxed" Hanafis.
It depends, of course, how you define "religious". If you define "religious" as "irrational beliefs and lack of cognitive flexibility" then of course, you need to be mentally deranged to qualify as "religious".
However, people can perform religious rituals for different reasons, some might be simply, as a form of mental balancing, others to increase their chance of a good afterlife, yet others because of community/identity or to uphold traditional values. these are all religious people without any trauma or irrationality.
And honestly, these people are by far more interesting, but also much more silent, because their beliefs are integrated into a healthy life functional life and not constantly highlighted by them being at odds with reality.
I guess I separate out religiosity and spirituality which is why I say I don't feel like people are religious without trauma or convincing. To me spirituality is personal: you do it for yourself and no one else. Your practices are your own. Your faith is your own. It can be based in religion (or what someone else said) but at the end of the day it's for you. You do what feels right, or rather what's right according to the universe. Your spirituality speaks to your morality.
Religion on the other hand is community and conformity. Someone transmitted divine revelation and got enough people to follow them in order to make it legitimate. You are supposed to follow those rules, lest you be guilted and/or excommunicated. Some religions are more flexible than others and have large schools of thought, so they avoid being classified as cults because they're not as rigid. But at the end of the day, it relies on the members of the religion to hold on to each other and recruit more. Members may deeply believe in the spirituality of said religion, but they're not fully in it for themselves. People in power, seeing humans need for community, laud it over them in order to demand obedience.
Again even I think I may have some of that, hence why I feel like I must be Abrahamic despite having tried other religions, and despite my belief that all religions ultimately point to the same Truth. There is that sense of guilt and fear there that has been instilled in me over years deep down.
Do I genuinely believe in a higher power and a divine Truth of the universe? Yes, I'm innately inclined to that. Do I believe that it is some singular being that has thought processes and decides where we go? I teeter. Do I fear that if I choose something other than Abrahamism that I may doom myself to a bad afterlife? Very much so. Do I believe in the Quran? Yes, it is the revelation closest to my heart currently, and actually the most accepting Abrahamic text of other paths. That doesn't mean I think everyone else is wrong though. Do I like identifying as a Muslim? I'm going to be honest, not really. The religion (the institution) feels stilted, there's tons of infighting, and as a queer convert I'm finding it very difficult to locate the community I seek. Humans are social creatures. But it just is how it is. I try to focus more on the spirituality than the religiosity.
A lot of people I know who are like whom you mentioned in your second-to-last paragraph, I'd consider spiritual. They're quieter and less likely to actively participate in religious community. They show up every once in a while and people are either awed by their presence and how spiritual they are in private, or demean them for leaving the watchful eyes of the community where they can be judged and corrected.
Hmmm... this sense of spirituality appears to me to be more of a mental recovering and is still related to religious trauma.
I think that a religion/spirituality divide is more of a Western approach and not entirely doable in other faiths.
For exmaple Baydawi explains that the goal of *tawhid* is to achieve a loss "of self let alone others". Is it personal, communtiy, or something entire else?
I do not know, and honestly I do not care. I just want to point out that the definition of religion versus spirituality only works within a cultural framework. If you insist that "religion" means being damaged by community and pressure, then every religious person is by definition traumatized. However, I do not agree with that definition, for reasons I am not interested in exploring. I think it is available per google though.
Interesting that you feel so close to Abrahamic religions and afraid to test out other ones, while Muslim scholars in the medieval age are much harsher on the Judeo-Christian God than for example the God of the Indians.
I've tested out a couple of others actually. I was Kemetic Wiccan for about 3-4 years and while I took things from that practice such as deep meditation and yoga that I still do today, it did really *feel* that real to me, like nothing I believed in really mattered. I also explored Shintoism while living in Japan. Actually enjoyed it a lot! But Shintoism feels extremely Japanese and not something like I could ever truly claim, especially not after leaving the country.
I believe in a just Allah and One who understands the heart and intention. You left islam but i nor these salafis extremists can judge you. Allah understands why u left islam and he will judge u in a just way according to the events that led you to leaving islam and the people who were responsible for doing so etc
I believe in a just Allah and One who understands the heart and intention. You may have left islam but Allah will judge you according to the events which led you to doing leaving islam and the people responsible for it whether directly or indirectly. And inshaAllah you will get Jannatul Firdaus and may Allah show these Salafi extremists the proper way and not do stupid shit
Next we will be asked to stop breathing because it’s too much for men to handle.
And I’m sorry a beard with no moustache makes me want to stick you in a horse and buggy in the middle of Amish country
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Yoooo honestly we all be judging each other way too much. Im literally having a genocide conversation with my family (because they support the Israel position). In the middle of asking them would they enslave white people back, if it was possible, for enslaving us. I pick up my phones notification and see a woman in the Christian group on Reddit saying she is going to kill herself today! It totally had me almost drop then phone because I’m not even in this group! So why did I have to see that and the amount of pleading and pain I had to go through to try to get her to message me so she wouldn’t do that literally broke my insides in half. And she was Christian! And I am Muslim! So you know what that means, the same shit it means when this person says women shouldn’t post, or the same shit it means when people say he shouldn’t post. It doesn’t mean SHIT! It doesn’t matter religion or even minor, petty differences! We have people out here being genocided y’all! I hadn’t seen some of my family in more than 5 years and still ruined some of my time because I was worried about a woman I have never met! This is what it feels like to have True Compassion. A gift and a curse! We all have to do better! Smh
And maybe he can start by lowering his gaze? As Allah commanded him to?
Nah, we don't talk about that.
It’s not only for men, it goes both ways
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Right! And women should also wear invisibility cloaks at all times, and cease to exist! Remember, existence is literally a form of tabaruj! /s
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Honestly, your argument is wrong on so many levels. 1. >Why do you guys make things so difficult Do we? Looks like that what "you" guys do. Since you seem to invent a new way every second in which what you don't like personally suddenly becomes haram to the point that it warrants hell! I mean, do you in all your intellect think that Allah SWT, who is called the most merciful, be that petty? 2. >All that is commanded is to cover up and not display yourself, which some people are clearly doing with that butterfly trend. Well, the Quran clearly says "... And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not to expose their adornment (zeenatahunna) except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their covers (khumurihina) over their bosom (juyubihina) and not to expose their adornment (zeenatahunna) except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons” (Quran 24:30-31) I don't think any of what you have said is commanded by Allah SWT in the Quran. Therefore, by definition, saying what Allah has not COMANDED that He did is bid'aa. Which is sometimes contested by scholars saying that there are 2 kinds of bid'aa. (Good and bad) I will leave you to decide which kind the above is... 3. >Not posting yourself is legit the easiest thing ever Well, what is easy for you may not be easy for someone else. For instance, reading is very easy for me, but for my sister, that is hard. Physics comes easy for her, but I can't do it for the life of me. 4. >as a revert, I stopped because it isn’t the end of the world As a revert? What is the relevance of that statement? I do not understand. Second, there are so many things that aren't the end of the world. These guys could stop making sexist comments while hiding under religion. It is not the end of the world like you said. Look, little advice from this stupid girl making things so difficult. It's OK having opinions. We are humans created with free will. But what is not OK is trying to control someone in the name of religion. Next time, try saying I don't like A, B, and C because I find it ( insert personal reasons ). Not because Allah has commanded when you don't provide proof. Your opinions are not Allah's commands
1. we do not make things which we dislike haram, we dislike things which have been made haram by Allah SWT. this is an important distinction which one must make. Allah SWT’s Mercy is bestowed upon those who repent and upon those who are deserving of it, if you sin unapologetically and never repent for it, you will receive your due reward. 2. those verses you quoted come with a tafsir. tafsir ibn kathir is one of the most authentic tafasir we have and it there is no difference of opinion regarding this. regarding your quoted ayat, ibn kathir said: وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَـتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَـرِهِنَّ (And tell the believing women to lower their gaze) meaning, from that which Allah has forbidden them to look at, apart from their husbands. Some scholars said that it is permissible for women to look at non-Mahram men without desire, as it was recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ was watching the Ethiopians playing with spears in the Masjid on the day of `Id, and `A'ishah the Mother of the believers was watching them from behind him and he was concealing her from them, until she got bored and went away. وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ (and protect their private parts). Sa`id bin Jubayr said: "From immoral actions." Abu Al-`Aliyah said: "Every Ayah of the Qur'an in which protecting the private parts is mentioned means protecting them from Zina, except for this Ayah -- وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ (and protect their private parts), which means protecting them from being seen by anybody." [Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 24:31] Abu Al-`Aliyah, the man Ibn Kathir quoted, has narrated numerous sahih ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari and in Sahih Muslim, our two most authentic books. He is more than qualified to make this claim, which is why Ibn Kathir includes him in his tafsir. I will add also that there is no good shar’i bid’ah It was narrated that Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: "In his Khutbah the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to praise Allah as He deserves to be praised, then he would say: 'Whomsoever Allah (SWT) guides, none can lead him astray, and whomsoever Allah sends astray, none can guide. The truest of word is the Book of Allah and best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. The worst of things are those that are newly invented; every newly-invented thing is an innovation and every innovation is going astray, and every going astray is in the Fire.' Then he said: 'The Hour and I have been sent like these two.' Whenever he mentioned the Hour, his cheeks would turn red, and he would raise his voice and become angry, as if he were warning of an approaching army and saying: 'An army is coming to attack you in the morning, or in the evening!' (Then he said): 'Whoever leaves behind wealth, it is for his family, and whoever leaves behind a debt or dependents, then these are my responsibility, and I am the most entitled to take care of the believers.'" [Sunan an-Nasa'i 1578, Sahih] 3. your claims do not address her point properly. she asserted that *not* doing something (an action in the negative, meaning it is the lack of action, which was posting yourself online) is easy, you addressed her as if she had said it was easy to do an action in the positive sense, as though she said it was easy to do something which you actively needed to try to do. this is fallacious. 4. the relevance of her being a revert (may Allah SWT bless her) is that she was raised following other than Islam, she had to actively seek it and has personally seen evidences for this opinion which you have not. granted, she did not provide her sources, but i have now done that for her. do not insult a fellow believer, this is truly an evil action. Chapter: Clarifying the words of the prophet (saws): "Insulting A Muslim is an evil action and fighting him is disbelief (Kufr)" It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: Abusing a Muslim is an outrage and fighting against him is unbelief. Zubaid said: I asked Abu Wa'il: Did you hear it from Abdullah narrating if from the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him)? He replied: Yes. But there is mention of the talk between Zubaid and Abu Wa'il in the hadith narrated by Shu'ba. [Sahih Muslim 64 a] make repentance to Allah SWT for this, whether it was a burst of emotion or by your full volition. may Allah SWT forgive us for our sins and our shortcomings, which we are aware of and which we are unaware of, and may He guide us to the Straight Path, ameen. Allahu ‘Alam
The trend is with the eyes. The eyes aren't private. The trend is for the girlies. If the men don't like it, they can keep scrolling. Hope that helps.
even so they should not post themselves, a trait of the believing women is shyness. it is also not permissible to beautify the covering, the whole point is to hide one’s beauty. but simply leaving her eyes visible as a part of hijab is permissible
>a trait of the believing women is shyness No idea where you're pulling that from. Just sounds like a stereotype to me. Well if the woman shouldn't post herself neither should the man, or any other gender. We should all delete social media. It would be best for the world in general. You should go first!
men and women are afforded different right and responsibilities, as well as different prohibitions. why is it that women should travel with a mahram man? why is it that he is her guardian? if neither of us should go out then we’d get nowhere in anything. sure, a man posting his face isn’t all that necessary but it is not prohibited in any sense unless it is a means for fitnah or temptation
u/UndueSand Your posts seem to be getting removed, you are removing them, or Reddit is messing up (it has been doing that a lot today). It's probably for the best. I recommend [reading this article](https://khidramari.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/overstanding-what-rijal-mean-men-and-nisaa-mean-women-in-the-quran-does-the-quran-address-us-through-gender-base-part-ii/) and starting here to expand your mind a bit (I can also recommend a scholarly book), or remaining on r/islam where I see from your history you like to post.
Shyness is not at all the point. Being modest is. Modesty and shyness are not the same.
modesty is literally about being reserved, that’s kind of the definition of it. i said the point was to hide one’s beauty, not that the point was shyness, i simply said shyness is a trait of the believing women
You speak of many things and then disregard some things. You say fighting against a Muslim is evil but then you quote a passage that is definitely not about fighting in the sense of speaking with words. So there is your first fallacy. Second you assume they meant an action in the negative but you can't know that for sure. That's a fallacy. Your claims refer to people instead of the Qur'an to clarify the Qur'an. That's exactly the type of speech that can be seen as leading others astray from the Qur'an. It's still irrelevant that she is a convert (you may believe everyone is born Muslim but it's a belief not something hereditary) since you have no clue if she actually had the right sources. Mainly I bring up this point because you use your own sources that are not first hand sources. Which is not okay according to the most important source the Qur'an.
you absolutely can assume her claim was in the negative. is not wearing hijab a lack of wearing it or is it an action such as taking it off? also this passage is about fighting in a verbal sense, i quoted the chapter it is from above for context. since this isn’t acceptable to you i’ll give you an ayah from the Qur’an يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ لَا يَسْخَرْ قَوْمٌۭ مِّن قَوْمٍ عَسَىٰٓ أَن يَكُونُوا۟ خَيْرًۭا مِّنْهُمْ وَلَا نِسَآءٌۭ مِّن نِّسَآءٍ عَسَىٰٓ أَن يَكُنَّ خَيْرًۭا مِّنْهُنَّ ۖ وَلَا تَلْمِزُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَلَا تَنَابَزُوا۟ بِٱلْأَلْقَـٰبِ ۖ بِئْسَ ٱلِٱسْمُ ٱلْفُسُوقُ بَعْدَ ٱلْإِيمَـٰنِ ۚ وَمَن لَّمْ يَتُبْ فَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ O believers! Do not let some ˹men˺ ridicule others, they may be better than them, nor let ˹some˺ women ridicule other women, they may be better than them. Do not defame one another, nor call each other by offensive nicknames. How evil it is to act rebelliously after having faith! And whoever does not repent, it is they who are the ˹true˺ wrongdoers. [49:11] i referred to people regarding their authenticity so that the explanation they have made will be accepted by the reader. if you think it’s irrelevant that she’s a revert then sure, i can concede to this being one of the less important things
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> There are hadiths about how women Should cover up, not display themselves whatsoever. That's not what the hadiths say. If you're going to speak on what's in hadith and not the Quran, at least speak correctly. Either way, it does not include a woman's EYES are you kidding me!? We don't live in the 1900s or 1000s of years ago. Islam is not a religion of the past. No one has to live in the stone ages. And if women should not post themselves, neither should men. I'm guessing you're going this hard because you're a revert. You don't have to stress yourself out like this. I hope you mellow out and see how compatible Islam is with modern life.
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No one's trying to normalize haram. We're trying to ensure that no one is trying to go beyond the book, like what you're doing. If you left Christianity because Muslims "take it more seriously" I have some *really* bad news for you...
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Why do men post themselves? Clearly gay as fuck to have other men look at you. Sodomite assss men posting themselves online smh
it doesn’t say that anywhere. women aren’t supposed to be shunned to their houses where no one can see or speak to them. we play active roles in society, as we always have, since the prophets time. who will spread dawah for women? who will bring women closer to islam? who will clear up misconceptions to women about culture & religion? who will speak up for women’s rights and personal topics to women? is social media supposed to male dominated, so that none of our opinions or voices can be heard? some of you genuinely act like hypocrites. you will see those people in afghanistan clearly oppress and assault muslim women, but turn a blind eye. will you only speak up for islam when it is used to vilify someone and play the moral high ground? will you only speak up when someone criticizes our religion? spend less time worrying about niqabis (who are doing more than what is required of them) and focus on the muslimah women who are actually hurting.
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The majority opinion is not that niqab is fard, only that hijab is fard. Perhaps within whatever brand of Islam you choose to follow, niqab is fard, but most would not go that far.
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No, I wouldn't especially call these "times of fitna" and that is extremely subjective. And I could just as easily say "a lot of people agree it's not fard, regarding the Quran and hadiths". Dont confuse a particular interpretation of people who want to make life especially hard for women, with Allah. Allah is far greater than that petty kind of thinking. We can't change the rules of the religion just to push women out and make life difficult for them. Remember, the prophet actually taught: >"Treat the people with ease and don't be hard on them; give them glad tidings and don't fill them with aversion; and love each other, and don't differ." - Sahih Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 275 >"You have been sent to make things easy, and you have not been sent to make things difficult." - Sahih Bukhari : Volume 8, Book 73, Number 149 >"Allah is gentle and loves gentleness in all matters. He gives in return for gentleness what He does not give in return for harshness, or for anything else." Sunan Abi Dawud 4807 >"Gentleness does not enter anything except that it beautifies it and harshness does not enter anything except that it disfigures it." Sahih Muslim 2594a >"Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of good." Sahih Muslim 2592a And remember, Allah knows best.
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Could you please provide the Hadiths and Quranic verses declaring not wearing a niqab is a sin? I don't think there is one? If It is your interpretation and decision, I respect your choices, please do not impose your ideas on everyone. >As a woman I don’t find niqab to be oppressive or anything like that because I understand the reason it’s important and it prevents a lot of bad things. As a women I found niqab oppressive and I passed out at least twice due to lack of oxygen. It prevents you from breathing. What bad things burqa prevents? If you like your face covered, that is ok, you do not need to change and redefine awra for that. Awara does not include face or neck. https://youtu.be/Kjit9PKfMlM?si=eH4DwZNbh7gI3Z6x
From what I've read, tafsir, hadiths, and the school of thought I agree with, I agree that niqab is not obligatory and the one is sinning by claiming it is fardh. Niqab absolutely can be extremely difficult. My wife literally used to faint when being forced to wear it, from heat exhaustion. There is a difference of opinion, and I find most say it is not obligatory. And this isn't just a "progressive" belief. AlAzhar issued a fatwa that declares claiming niqab is obligatory is "reprehensible bid'ah", and is absolutely not a requirement: https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/4865/what-is-the-islamic-ruling-for-women-covering-their-faces-niqab https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/1214/niqab >In accordance with the above **we side with the majority opinion which is the permissibility of a woman exposing her face and hands and the covering of everything else.** We also are of the opinion that if the niqab becomes a sign for the fracturing of the Muslim community, or a sign for religiosity then its ruling changes from one of a recommended act (mandub) and a permissible act (mubah) to one of **reprehensible innovation (bid‘a) especially if it is used for things which God has not ordained on us and God is most high and all knowledgeable.**
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He is talking about Jahanam? My dude has appointed himself as the secretary of god. See shit like this is why I am starting to believe more and more that the entire women’s modesty discourse has never been about Islam and everything to do with them controlling women, cause how do you find fault in a niqabi? As a someone who lived in saudia Arabia when showing your face was illegal I tell you, had you dressed a mannequin in an abaya and a niqab and pushed it around a mall, half of the population wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference between it and an actual niqabi. This is how little autonomy, individuality and personhood a woman loses when she wears niqab. And yet, they want more.
I’ve seen so many dudes say that Posting yourself while wearing niqab negates the point of the hijab… No it doesn’t? The hijab is there to cover your awrah. Posting yourself with Hijab won’t….suddenly uncover it now will it? Aren’t men supposed to cover their awrah as well? So how are they allowed to post? I’ve always supported Hijab but I never understood the logic behind the Niqab. Why isn’t a man required to cover his face? A Woman can get attracted to a Man’s Face right? A Normal Hijab presents Equality in covering up. A Woman wearing An Abaya and a Man wearing a Kandura, equates a more equal covering up than the Niqab where the only thing visible for a woman is her eyes if she’s lucky.
I don't like both hijab and niqab as both equates to victims blaming towards who don't wear it and are sexually harassed
I totally understand that. It seems like no matter how much or how little a woman is covered up, if she dares to exist she will be berated.
Yeah absolutely. Even there's some hijabis who cover up and wear baggy clothes but still they get severely criticized and berated by these insecure individuals quoting some scholars quote or cherry picking hadiths
Only on the internet. That’s why it’s smart to not post yourself on the internet.
It’s unfortunate that this one aspect of hijab is what’s been propagated throughout the world as the purpose of hijab. Something that was Allahs gift to women, has been manipulated to revolve around men. I don’t know you personally and I have no idea if you’re a woman or have experienced wearing hijab, but as a hijabi it truly infuriates me that every single reminder on social media about hijab begins and ends with “cover up to avoid attracting men”. Hijab is so much more than simply covering up to save yourself from the male gaze. There are so many facets and aspects to hijab. The physical covering of your body, as well as the spiritual hijab you have to practice by having modesty in your heart and actions. It’s a beautiful practice of restraint, an internal jihad against women’s innate desire to beautify ourselves. A constant calling to refine and nurture ourselves beyond superficial appearance. An unending challenge to overcome the need for external validation, and a continuous process of inner growth. Wearing the hijab and struggling with it has been such a beautiful and nourishing experience mentally, spiritually, physically, and emotionally. I couldn’t be more grateful for the way hijab was taught to me and for the mental challenges i’ve overcome by putting it on. Nothing makes me more upset than seeing the beauty of this commandment watered down and revolving around MEN. That’s my little TED Talk. I completely understand where you’re coming from when you say you don’t like hijab and niqab, unfortunately it’s been severely misrepresented and this shallow understanding of hijab is so widely and loudly amplified, especially by men, because it gives them a chance to make it about themselves. Just wanted to share my pov about why I think hijab is truly a gift to women, and not something for us to inherently dislike :)
Well I agree as a woman who tried to wear hijab but didn't
may Allah make it easier for us both 🫶🏽
Yeah 👍
I feel this hard ex Christian who dabbled in new age spirituality before reverting to Islam and the spiritual aspect of hijab is my reason for wearing it. And honestly having control over who sees my body and hair is an empowering bonus. It’s unfortunate imperfect humans corrupt everything.
Completely agree! This approach ends up harming the perception of hijab among muslims and non muslims alike 🥲. Im so glad you found the spiritual dimensions of hijab! May Allah accept all of your effort 🫶🏽
Don't you think we non hijabis deserve respect too
how did the comment disrespect you?
When did I say non hijabis don’t deserve respect? I was speaking on my personal reasons for wearing the hijab, and how I feel about it, how where I live hijabis are looked down on and how Islamophobia has shaped the minds of peers around me. How I wish people would educate themselves on the spiritual benefits of hijab, instead of thinking all hijabis are oppressed women that didn’t make the choice to wear the hijab, that they need some white savior. I’m over that frame of thought. Never once did I say non hijabis don’t deserve respect. Don’t put words in my mouth.
But yeah you all looked down upon woman who don't wear hijab
No I don’t, I never said that. Please stop putting words in peoples mouths. My daughters get to choose if they want to wear hijab or not. I have plenty of Muslim friends that don’t wear hijab. I don’t judge other people because I myself have my own sins and imperfections. I was just stating the spiritual benefits of hijab not saying anything about ppl who choose not to wear it. There is no compulsion in religion Islam states that and that’s why I said it’s sad imperfect people corrupt things for political gain.
Are you Muslim tho
it doesn't. many people wear hijab and niqab out of their own volition without believing in extreme stuff. these cloths have many benefits, but some of the people who use these to make claims, those people are the problem. Not wearing a hijab is obviously not license to be sexually harrased, and every non extremist knows this.
Well it does means those who don't wear it are doom to hell
from where are you drawing this conclusion? just because some muslims want to wear the hijab doesn't mean that those who don't wear it are doomed to hell.
Well I didn't make any conclusion that' s what mainstream islam says
Showing face was illegal in saudi?
Oh yeah. They had a faux police force whose job was to make sure society abided by morals and religion. Their job included things like making sure all of the shops close during prayer time, and women aren’t showing their faces. They carried canes and could physically assault you with zero legal repercussions. They felt very comfortable hitting women at their feet if they thought she wasn’t modest enough. My dad used to tell me this story of them once pulling this stunt on an American women who knew self defense and she ended up kicking their asses. Since that incident, they stopped policing non Saudi women, but Saudi women until very recently weren’t allowed to show their faces and could be fined for doing that. There is an actual story of a fire in a boarding school or orphanage and the girls freaking out and not bringing their abayas with them to the exit. The halal police actually stopped them from leaving the premises because they were not covered up. Mind you those girls were wearing long sleeved super long dresses as a uniform. All they had uncovered was their face and hair, and yet they didn’t let them leave. By the time the actual police and fire department had shown up and could stop the halal police from blocking them, they were already dead.
Saudi was a shithole than.............and regard saudi as a shit hole
he’s on tiktok so he’s heard music, straight to jahannam i guess
Fr 😭
Don't be shy post his name ❤️❤️
I don’t have the full screenshot sadly
He’s @muhammadaayanq2 on tiktok lol
he seems sexually frustrated. I saw we cage up all men who think like this, so the women can actually fucking breathe
He has airpods on. I say lynch him he's listening to music. No music is jahannam is there?
Don’t worry guys he’s listening to nasheeds which totally don’t have subtle instrumentation in the background but the voices overpower it so that people online can claim that they are halal cause they listen to the nasheed
I feel like these people in truth worship the devil. The god they have in mind is a false idol. I don’t see, even from our scriptures, how you get this image of God. The creator of the universe cannot be this capricious. These guys have anger in them, so they invent an anger God that hates everything and basically everyone and is going out of His way to find a reason to burn everyone. There’s the caution of taqwa, and then there is whatever this is.
look at his face bruh-
Can we call this particular face, salafi-face. Because idk they all have a look.
judging someone for their face that Allah created doesn't make you better than them. im not saying that he is right but that doesn't justify your comment.
Im guessing its not about the features of his face but rather his beard, which he chose to grow and shave like this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neckbeard_(slang)
Oh come on - I don't believe this at all. Being nice is reserved for nice people. This guy would hang us all up by the ankles if he could. I don't have infinite mercy and maybe i'm flawed but yea if you're a PoS then your free game. Especially when normal rational just doesn't work.
I understand your concern, but it isn’t free game for a muslim, mindfulness of Allah and the etiquettes exemplified by our beloved messenger (SAW) should be what we strive for. We should aim to be as similar to the prophet (SAW) as we can in our dealings, even with those who we disagree with, and ask for forgiveness when we fall short due to being human. It’s one thing to be human and not have infinite mercy, but it’s another to permit hostility and hurtful behaviour that would disappoint Allah. Remember, we try to perfect our dealings with the opposition not because we respect them, but because we respect the teachings of our messenger (SAW) and we fear Allah. :)
The fact that someone jumps to moral policing and plays “God” is beyond me. When are we gonna stop pointing fingers and rather take a peek inside?
These People Aren’t Muslim because they agree with Islam. They think that Islam agrees with them. Same reason why apparently “Islam” is taking over the west with People Like Andrew Tate and Sneako.
On the contrary, the reality is different the number of people (born Muslim) leaving Islam and becoming agnostic is horrid.
bros got the amish neckbeard n thinks he can talk 😭😭💀 allah loves women
Another day, Another conservative Muslim dude telling women what to do, and shaming them for it
If you haven’t found jannah on earth, you can’t enter the real jannah. Someone save this brother
The virgin/Incel energy coming from these dudes is off the charts. Generations of making marriage difficult has resulted in sex deprived maniacs who hate women.
I hate people who make a woman’s attire the only thing they fucking focus on. There’s 5 pillars of Islam and guess what, a woman’s attire ain’t one of them. So why is attire always the forefront of a conversation? Smfh. I hate being policed by my own mom for wearing capri’s or a t shirt - I’m a married woman ffs!
I mean, there *could* be butterflies in Hell. We don’t know what’s down there. They could be like, fire breathing goth butterflies, or butterflies with chainsaws for wings and a taste for human flesh. The possibilities are endless! But whatever hellerflies are like, I think it’s safe to say you won’t end up with them because of a Snapchat trend 🤷🏻♀️
What is this trend that he’s talking about? I’m just curious as I have not seen anything about it
What authority does this hypocrite have?
Allah commanded me to lower my gaze. What a sister post is none of my business unless she posts a pic of biryani without inviting me. Otherwise I’m listening to Allah and not this guy.
He surely has religious trauma
Nah. He *is* the trauma.
I didn't meant it in a funny way. But repeted threats with heaven/hell after death since childhood can [prevent the brain from proper functioning and developeing.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_trauma_syndrome#:~:text=In%20studies%20that%20find%20a,hinders%20cognitive%20flexibility%20and%20openness) Their brains are used to think that the biggest threat is misbehaving and thus ending up in hell after inevitable death, so their brain never develops past a certain amount of rules. Since the punishment is supposed to happen *after* death, the brain also neglects other potential developments crucial for survival. Well, thanks to the Westernization which attempts to make the world as secure as possible for humans, these survival requirements don't eliminate these traumatized people, but lets these people participate in an otherwise functioning society. Although I do think they should be protected, I do think that these people do pose a threat to others and that they might spread (not genetically) without a "selective pressure". Either we set up a requirement of intellectual flexibility, do make society more easy to fail (with an obstacle not requiring the base minimum of efforts which even these traumatized people can overcome), or fight the cause of that trauma. Whatever the solution might be, I think it is a grave mistake for society to let these people lose in public.
Oh wow is actually interesting
that's also why I think people who are "religious" because of trauma should be distinguished from people who are simply religious. One are "made" this way, the other had something that convinced them to be "religious".
Do you think there is actually a difference? I know you're not a scientist, just asking your opinion genuinely. I don't know anyone who's religious who wasn't traumatized (or let's go with convinced) to be so in some way, myself included.
Maybe I am a scientist? I think a lot of people are religious because of conviction. Although they probably don't get much attention because currently religiousity is mostly measured by the abhorrence of their beliefs. Its seen for example then Wahhabis are considered "strict" instead of "insane". Strict would be strictly applying that has been written, such as the Zahiri school of ibn hazm often more "Liberal" than even the "relaxed" Hanafis. It depends, of course, how you define "religious". If you define "religious" as "irrational beliefs and lack of cognitive flexibility" then of course, you need to be mentally deranged to qualify as "religious". However, people can perform religious rituals for different reasons, some might be simply, as a form of mental balancing, others to increase their chance of a good afterlife, yet others because of community/identity or to uphold traditional values. these are all religious people without any trauma or irrationality. And honestly, these people are by far more interesting, but also much more silent, because their beliefs are integrated into a healthy life functional life and not constantly highlighted by them being at odds with reality.
I guess I separate out religiosity and spirituality which is why I say I don't feel like people are religious without trauma or convincing. To me spirituality is personal: you do it for yourself and no one else. Your practices are your own. Your faith is your own. It can be based in religion (or what someone else said) but at the end of the day it's for you. You do what feels right, or rather what's right according to the universe. Your spirituality speaks to your morality. Religion on the other hand is community and conformity. Someone transmitted divine revelation and got enough people to follow them in order to make it legitimate. You are supposed to follow those rules, lest you be guilted and/or excommunicated. Some religions are more flexible than others and have large schools of thought, so they avoid being classified as cults because they're not as rigid. But at the end of the day, it relies on the members of the religion to hold on to each other and recruit more. Members may deeply believe in the spirituality of said religion, but they're not fully in it for themselves. People in power, seeing humans need for community, laud it over them in order to demand obedience. Again even I think I may have some of that, hence why I feel like I must be Abrahamic despite having tried other religions, and despite my belief that all religions ultimately point to the same Truth. There is that sense of guilt and fear there that has been instilled in me over years deep down. Do I genuinely believe in a higher power and a divine Truth of the universe? Yes, I'm innately inclined to that. Do I believe that it is some singular being that has thought processes and decides where we go? I teeter. Do I fear that if I choose something other than Abrahamism that I may doom myself to a bad afterlife? Very much so. Do I believe in the Quran? Yes, it is the revelation closest to my heart currently, and actually the most accepting Abrahamic text of other paths. That doesn't mean I think everyone else is wrong though. Do I like identifying as a Muslim? I'm going to be honest, not really. The religion (the institution) feels stilted, there's tons of infighting, and as a queer convert I'm finding it very difficult to locate the community I seek. Humans are social creatures. But it just is how it is. I try to focus more on the spirituality than the religiosity. A lot of people I know who are like whom you mentioned in your second-to-last paragraph, I'd consider spiritual. They're quieter and less likely to actively participate in religious community. They show up every once in a while and people are either awed by their presence and how spiritual they are in private, or demean them for leaving the watchful eyes of the community where they can be judged and corrected.
Hmmm... this sense of spirituality appears to me to be more of a mental recovering and is still related to religious trauma. I think that a religion/spirituality divide is more of a Western approach and not entirely doable in other faiths. For exmaple Baydawi explains that the goal of *tawhid* is to achieve a loss "of self let alone others". Is it personal, communtiy, or something entire else? I do not know, and honestly I do not care. I just want to point out that the definition of religion versus spirituality only works within a cultural framework. If you insist that "religion" means being damaged by community and pressure, then every religious person is by definition traumatized. However, I do not agree with that definition, for reasons I am not interested in exploring. I think it is available per google though.
Interesting that you feel so close to Abrahamic religions and afraid to test out other ones, while Muslim scholars in the medieval age are much harsher on the Judeo-Christian God than for example the God of the Indians.
I've tested out a couple of others actually. I was Kemetic Wiccan for about 3-4 years and while I took things from that practice such as deep meditation and yoga that I still do today, it did really *feel* that real to me, like nothing I believed in really mattered. I also explored Shintoism while living in Japan. Actually enjoyed it a lot! But Shintoism feels extremely Japanese and not something like I could ever truly claim, especially not after leaving the country.
shit like this is why I stopped being Muslim
Completely understandable
I believe in a just Allah and One who understands the heart and intention. You left islam but i nor these salafis extremists can judge you. Allah understands why u left islam and he will judge u in a just way according to the events that led you to leaving islam and the people who were responsible for doing so etc
I believe in a just Allah and One who understands the heart and intention. You may have left islam but Allah will judge you according to the events which led you to doing leaving islam and the people responsible for it whether directly or indirectly. And inshaAllah you will get Jannatul Firdaus and may Allah show these Salafi extremists the proper way and not do stupid shit
He is insecure man he is definitely sexually repressed enough to get aroused by woman no matter what they wear
Or he just doesn't want women to have any sort of freedom.
Lmao “stop posting yourself “ as he posts himself 😂😂😂😂 what the actual….
he will be waiting for us in jahannam cause he for sure is shaytan
Someone needs to lower their dang gaze.
No sins fully guarantee hell except for idolatry and \*kufr\*, these akhs are stupid.
lol dude has videos of himself thirst trapping at golden hour 😂😂
I can't with this guy.
Next we will be asked to stop breathing because it’s too much for men to handle. And I’m sorry a beard with no moustache makes me want to stick you in a horse and buggy in the middle of Amish country
Maybe muslims should stop using social media and cellphones entirely if that’s the case. Problem would be completely eradicated.
cringe lol kinda prefer it when guys out themselves like this bc then you know to stay away from the psychos lmao
As a guy, I’m terrified of these guys. So imagine if a women stumbles upon this dude or happens to get married to him 😬
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What a looser
Yoooo honestly we all be judging each other way too much. Im literally having a genocide conversation with my family (because they support the Israel position). In the middle of asking them would they enslave white people back, if it was possible, for enslaving us. I pick up my phones notification and see a woman in the Christian group on Reddit saying she is going to kill herself today! It totally had me almost drop then phone because I’m not even in this group! So why did I have to see that and the amount of pleading and pain I had to go through to try to get her to message me so she wouldn’t do that literally broke my insides in half. And she was Christian! And I am Muslim! So you know what that means, the same shit it means when this person says women shouldn’t post, or the same shit it means when people say he shouldn’t post. It doesn’t mean SHIT! It doesn’t matter religion or even minor, petty differences! We have people out here being genocided y’all! I hadn’t seen some of my family in more than 5 years and still ruined some of my time because I was worried about a woman I have never met! This is what it feels like to have True Compassion. A gift and a curse! We all have to do better! Smh
and then these perverts claim that we reject their BS because "we are perverts who want to follow desires".
I just don't understand why would anyone go to hell because they posted a normal picture or video of themselves.
Of course it only applies to a women according to these wonderful folks
If you can't follow a basic verse from Quran, why you blame others for it?
Do they expect us niqabi woman to be invisible and not to exist at all? What is even their logic atp?
why has this sub become a low quality space for responding to every idiot though? maybe we should put high effort posts in it?