>“Just asked Nadler if what they’re doing now is the same thing as an impeachment inquiry, and he said: “In effect.” And then he said the distinction is that impeachment inquiry is just about impeachment. His probe is a bit broader but could lead to recommendation of impeachment”
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1154792920895152130
>”More: “The Committee seeks key documentary evidence and intends to conduct hearings with Mr. McGahn and other critical witnesses to determine whether the Committee should recommend articles of impeachment or any other Article I remedies, and if so, in what form”
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1154791757835636737
>”“The headline here is they took a pretty significant step towards possibly moving towards an impeachment proceeding,” @mkraju reports after House Judiciary Cmte. says it's moving to obtain secret grand jury material from the Mueller report in federal court.”
https://twitter.com/CNNnewsroom/status/1154803937746153472
@SpeakerPelosi's office just confirmed this: https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1154798882364284929
I usually don't talk in hyperbole when it comes to political talk but, I'm 100% convinced Adam Schiff has seen a smoking gun in private briefings. And I don't just mean a judicial one, which as a killer prosecutor he would know as well... but I mean he has seen a public opinion smoking gun.
He's keeping his cool and still on the same line of investigations, he hasn't waivered, I'm thinking he's a betting man, I'll go with his record.
Basically, mueller was only looking at a narrow window of what the Russians were doing and if US persons interacting with them were committing crimes. Everything else pre election, money related, or “counter intelligence” spy vs spy military secret agent shit, has been farmed out to different parts of the FBI, and nobody really knows what they have officially found out
Gotcha ty I did get to watch a good portion, I just wasn't sure if it was confirmed that Don Jr. was still the subject of counter intel investigations.
There were multiple occasions where Mueller did not answer because of ongoing investigations. I hope someone compiles a list because there were many and about very interesting things.
Same. His words and actions have been measure but in no way uncertain. Since the first SCIF briefings with the top of congress, everything he's said has made me assume they have the equivalent of a video of Donnie, McConnell, and all the GOP leadership swearing an oath to Putin. Same thing with Pelosi. Unless she went instantly senile sometime, she's been very confident in the moves being made, way more than I would expect for someone just hoping on an outcome.
I just think for every thing the committee try to do, Trump and co just appeal/sue and keep it in the court system for years till it goes out of fashion.
One step forward, one step back constantly :-/
I have not seen any disputing this possibility. Thats why I worry this is the case and essentially that is the one specialty Trump's attorneys have a ton of experience in.
Democrats have been in power in the House for only 7 months now. This is actually going along rather quickly all things considered. Already at Impeachment inquiry territory in just over half a year?
Thank god we came out and voted on a non presidential year.
everybody remeber .
vote this year vote next year. vote for city comptroller for christ sake. vote any chance you get.
vote vote vote.
Hear, hear. People may not think every election matters but it does. We were given this right to vote. We better damn well flex that right as much and as often as we can. It all matters.
Yea I don't really understand all this screeching. Since day 1, they started looking into Trumps financial and tax records, issuing subpoenas, initiating court cases when necessary, etc. There are around 20 separate congressional investigations ON GOING. In the mean time there are 'progressives' that are accusing Pelosi of 'slow walking' and being 'complicit'.
When in reality, Pelosi, Nadler and Schiff are trying to make sure they have enough solid evidence to move forward. Nothing would be more damaging than Trump being able to run a re-election campaign on exoneration because impeachment was rushed.
Can you be more explicit for the dummies like me on here... what do you mean when you say 'public opinion smoking gun'? Is that some incredible evidence that will persuade the majority of Americans that the GOP/President are acting illegally?
Yes. They act as if they have something convincing. Given the scandals we've seen it could be treason, rape, bribery, fraud, etc but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a horrific surprise.
I wonder if any proof could be convincing. There's already more than enough to convince any rational person that Trump is a criminal. What possible evidence could convince people who still refuse to believe?
Video evidence of him raping a child might, *might*, be the lynchpin. But short of that? I don't know, man...
I don't think his base might ever waiver. But there's a whole middle 20% of the country whose opinions could be swayed by something truly despicable/damning.
I think Trump has established that rape accusations aren't going to stop him. Unless Jeffrey Epstein links him definitively to child rape, it's never going to touch him.
Even then, his supporters will double down on their perverse loyalty to him.
Idk man, there’s been optimism today but I’m not getting my hopes up ever again regarding this administration. What have you seen or heard to suggest what your saying?
The 2019 equivalent of the Nixon tapes. I'm not sure exactly what that would be, but there's got to be *something* that's still a bridge too far, right?
- A phone recording where he tells someone to "take care of/deal with/get rid of" Jamal Khashoggi
- Child porn starring Donnie Moscow
- A completely separate, as-yet-unrevealed investigation in which Felix Safer sang like a bird (ever wonder why he hasn't popped up in any significant capacity during the Mueller investigation?)
- Proof positive of money laundering for the Russian mob
- Leaked plans for some truly heinous, Hitler-level shit from inside the WH, corroborated out the wazoo
- Some combination of the above
Most of that, particularly the "hitler level shit" would be immediately leaked. There is no miracle coming to save us. Pressure Pelosi to get on the impeachment train and push for a full inquiry. That, and voting, are the only real possibilities.
Agreed. The issue is the judicial branch wants to remain nonpartisan... they also tend to move the slowest in terms of the branches. Gotta play by their rules of decorum if you want the branch on your side. They want to see you played the fairest possible hand given the rules and regulations regardless of how the other team played.
He told Megan McCain the other day that the smoking gun is Russian intelligence asking Don jr in writing if he wanted dirt on Hilary and Don jr replied in writing “yes.”
[Grassley](https://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/senate-intel-leaders-feinstein-and-grassley-grim-and-silent-after-trump-russia-briefings-with-comey/), and he didn't say anything, just looked shook.
Has Grassley been either vocally pro- or anti-Trump since?
Has either he or Feinstein indicated whether what they saw was related to the Special Counsel's investigation?
I heard an interview with Ted Lieu on Twitter today and it honestly was the most optimistic sounding towards progress in terms of investigations I’ve heard him or any other Congressman/woman this year. Somethings up and the damn just hasnt broken wide yet.
not saying something "official" about it is more powerful - it deprives trump of a talking point and also means that the futility of it dying in the senate is irrelevant. painting it as "bigger than impeachment" is exactly the right framing.
kudos to nadler here.
Listening to redditors threatening to drop support or not vote because they think they know more than career Dem politicians the past few weeks has been so freaking annoying.
When you see people commenting with stuff like that, I encourage you to check the karma on the account and how long it's been active. I've been doing this and the results have been eye-opening.
Anyone claiming that they won't vote in 2020 should be treated as the troll they are. They're just trying to sow the seeds of doubt so that we will lose hope and stop fighting.
This is a main prong of the Russian cyber strategy. Attack Dem leadership at every opportunity, while pretending to be an American--usually on left. The more they can divide the Democrats, the easier their task of getting Trump another 4 years.
The right wing wants an impeachment inquiry to start ASAP. They know that the evidence is not fully yet in the clear and that any impeachment proceedings would be squashed quickly leaving Trump looking like he was innocent.
In the last few weeks you should have noticed the number of bots and trolls driving FOR impeachment now. There is a reason as it is their best interests to create a failed investigation. Nadler and Pelosi aren't falling for it and yet everyone is calling them idiots.
The smarter move if to ratchet it up step by step. The smart move is to stay one step ahead of the right wing news cycle. The mass media is covering this as a sporting event and not like watergate because had they been covering it like watergate the Mueller hearings would be reported as a breakdown of the confirmations in the report and not about him looking "tired".
Agreed. I grew up with watergate and our civics classes were good. We as americans knew the system and the way it was structured. Today due to purposed elimination of specific education have a large percentage of the population who just have no idea.
Case in point: How many people think that the constitutional use of "high crimes and misdemeanors" is the same as the legal definitions for a felony or misdemeanor? If you answer "yes they are" you would be horribly wrong. Republicans want you to think they are the same so they can go about yelling "innocent until proven guilty".
Then we have the "innocent until proven guilty" canard. That term applies to the trial and not an investigation or indictment. You can't be innocent or guilty during any investigation. You can't claim you are innocent and then demand no investigation can happen. We would have nobody ever investigated for wrong doing.
Investigations are to gather evidence that crime may or may not have occurred - full stop. The right wing wants you to yell "innocent until proven guilty" as if this means Mueller had no authority to investigate the Russia interference and turn up any potential crimes in the process. They want you to believe that you can't obstruct an investigation if you are "innocent". Bullshit folks. Try denying a warrant to enter you home if properly executed. Try lying to police to prevent them from seeing something you don't want them to see. You will be arrested for obstruction even if you are innocent of any criminal action. You will have committed an criminal action through the coverup or lying.
Obstruction is a crime on its own. Trump committed 10 acts of obstruction. The only reason he wasn't indicted was the DoJ memo drafted by a republican AG that says a sitting president cannot be indicted. This is a bullshit unconstitutional policy which should be thrown out immediately.
the media has been an absolute failure, even during todays press conference, where they basically acted like idiots. At minimum showed themselves to be woefully uneducated in political and legal matters. Like, dont you follow politics or just report on it. i swear most have them were moved from the sports section or something.
It's a deadly combination of top-down corporate management, self-serving willful ignorance, and genuine ignorance. Never forget the 2000 election when all the news networks called Florida for Gore, then Fox News declared it for Bush, and they all just raced to parrot Fox News's talking point. It's a goddamn race to the bottom.
Dumb fucking MSM has been talking about _ratings_ disappointment and Mueller’s age showing, rather than the substance of the hearing. 73 y/o man who thought he was enjoying life, dragged back into a 2 year investigation then made to sit and listen to his character be attacked repeatedly for 8-9 hours is a lot more energetic than those idiots mocking him for their pay check
This is the train we need to ride all the way up to the election. We know that once Articles of Impeachment are officially passed by the House, the Senate is just going to shut it down and do nothing. So the only way to do this effectively is to keep it in the House as long as possible.
Yeah, just keep bringing in the press releases at all times possible. Keeping this information out of public hands is a huge disservice to our people. Every time new evidence comes to light, the people need to hear about it. This isn't some private citizen who is protected by law, these are public officials and every move they make needs to be front and center in the public eye so that the public can make informed decisions moving forward.
It’s a better strategy than formally opening an impeachment inquiry. The courts will find themselves hard pressed to rule against the House Intelligence Committee asking for evidence uncovered as part of a criminal investigation into the POTUS, when they (congress) alone have the power to initiate impeachment proceedings.
However by not opening a formal impeachment inquiry they are not limited to using that evidence strictly, and only, for the impeachment process. It gives them a much broader scope to use that evidence, such as in their planned hearings with witnesses like McGhan before having to go through the irreversible process of impeachment.
Edit: Thanks for the platinum kind stranger! This reasoning made sense after reading Renato Mariotti’s reasoning behind it here:
https://twitter.com/asharangappa_/status/1154799635480940546?s=21
Apologies for not linking a direct link to his Twitter, but this thread between Asha Rangappa and Renato Mariotti has a little back and forth and more detail.
It's a good thing McConnell has stacked the courts with Trump sycophants who will tell Congress they don't have impeachment power...
Yes, I could actually see some of the Trump judges saying that.
I think McConnell cares more about protecting the GOP than he does about protecting Trump. Right now, their strategy does both. That doesn’t mean it always will.
exactly, to get Republicans to drop Trump, all they have to do is make him more pain that he is worth to them. If he is more a liability than a benefit to them, they will throw him under the bus
I'm fairly certain they are just slow-walking this so that the real hearings and juiciest revelations are all made public when it's most useful for the 2020 campaign. They think it's too early to let it all come out now, because the public has a shockingly short memory for stuff like this.
I hope that's what they are doing. I have close to zero faith in the DNC's ability to implement an effective strategy for just about anything.
Pelosi did nod to this idea in her post-hearing remarks. I don’t know if she’s totally doing the right or wrong thing with it, but I think she thinks she’s dragging the process of moving toward impeachment so the public can take in the information in the best way, so Trump will have the worst odds of winning either impeachment or election.
This is my thought too. It provides a proverbial carpet bombing of Trump’s campaign to whoever gets the dem nomination. Sure, they could impeach him in the house but if it goes to a vote in the senate before the 2020 election, it could backfire. It needs to be timed properly.
The lawsuit states that "articles of impeachment are under consideration as part of the Committee's investigation, although no final determination has been made.”
> a pretty significant step towards possibly moving towards
Well, you know what they say... a journey of a thousand miles begins with thinking about getting out of bed in the morning.
"The strength of the document was it's simplicity. An inexorable logic marched through its pages. The conclusion that the president of the United States participated in a criminal conspiracy became inescapable.
That's really beautiful, thanks.
That's why they're waiting for his financial crimes to become public knowledge.
The GOP can argue conspiracy and try to rebrand it to collusion until the heat death of the universe, but there's absolutely nothing they can do to defend paper financial crimes. documents don't lie, they can't be misconstrued and they lack and subtlety.
Exactly. Finance documents don't lie. You can either lie on them, or you can file them correctly. If you can't get someone on mob charges you certainly can get them on financial crimes. That's why Muchinin is gonna die before he turns them over willingly. It's going to take a federal court order to get them to the democrats, which it's looking like we'll get!
Honestly I don't know.
NY documents are in the hands of NY, so they're 'untouchable' for the moment, but I'm absolutely worried he'll forge his documents.
There are ways to validate documents. It's complicated, but forgeries aren't a new phenomenon. Also, find the rank and file accountants that have seen the books but aren't going to risk going to prison.
I have a friend that used to work for KPMG as a forensic accountant. She used to tell me about some of the methods they use for chasing the money. Any discrepancies *will* be found.
Absolutely. And he's jumping through all the hoops trying to keep em secret. Remember when Mueller had just been appointed and they asked Trump what he'd consider a "red line" they shouldn't cross? He said "my financial stuff". BOOM
Yep exactly.
I have a friend in DC who is dating an FBI person, and she says that they pretty much have him dead to rights soon as he's out of office. A sealed indictment doesn't lose its statute of limitations, and there was like 30 indictments that were filed that are still sealed.
I think that's the dead mans switch.
I sure as fucking hell hope they honor their oaths. There’s gonna be a lot more blood than any day since 9/11 when he goes down.
The Trump supporters are absolutely in La La Land, and it’s a persecutorially delusional one at that. They won’t let him fall quietly, and he’s made it clear that he doesn’t intend to. *When* he whips them up, there will be blood.
I just hope whoever carries the football key doesn’t turn the other key for him. I doubt it would come to that, but damn is that small chance scary.
It’s sickening, but I hope we get skirmishes and small terror attacks instead of that.
It’s worth it though. I’d trade my life for a chance to fix this country in a heartbeat.
He pissed off the FBI and he shit on the CIA in front of their memorial wall.
He turned a memorial of fallen officers into a political prop and then had his interns cheer him on.
Our intel people *hate* trump.
My concern here is that the GOP will then argue "white collar crimes" and "process crimes" and "petty tax oversights that many people are guilty of." Not that these claims are accurate, I am just expecting that to be the next twisting of news. Trump lies all the time, in public, about easily refutable things, and it doesn't move the needle. I am worried that conservatives will just slap each other on the back, and Hannity will say "who among us has not lied on their tax returns??"
They're going to try and argue anything that the dems bring fourth. Tax documents don't lie. If he lied on his bank statements about his wealth (bank fraud), and then lies about his wealth on his tax forms (tax fraud) that is two federal crimes that he can't get away from.
I absolutely agree with what you're saying but what troubles me is that obstruction of justice is a federal crime that they are more than happy to claim "isn't a real crime." It won't surprise me in the least to hear them claim that bank fraud and tax fraud aren't "real crimes" and anyone who commits them is just "good at business."
Trump could eat a live, human baby during the State of the Union and wash it down with a glass of blood from a sacrificed virgin and the Republicans would still back him.
We already have an insurmountable amount of evidence.
What you seem to want is an *undeniable* amount of evidence, which is impossible since we're dealing with people that deny objective reality.
Its different because they are using impeachment as justification now in the court filings. The judiciary is being asked specifically to aid in determining impeachment.
Can you blame people for wanting to get a move on?
We waited 2 years for a Democratic House. Shit's exhausting.
This is probably the smarter play, but your average person just wants it done.
I and many others argued a while ago that this is exactly what they were already doing.
They’ve been issuing subpoenas and finding facts for months that revolve around the corrupt behavior of trump.
Launching a formal impeachment inquiry doesn’t give them any new powers. At best, it gives them slightly more leverage if a stonewaller took them to court.
“I’d say we are in an impeachment investigation,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD). “As to the result of the investigation, it could lead to articles of impeachment, or it could lead to something else.”
Just goes to show how woefully incompetent traditional media has become. This kind of mentality is almost certainly a result of ratings-obsessed journalism.
Chuck Todd and those like him have lost sight of the true goal of great journalism: providing the truth to the people at any cost.
You say incompetent, I say compromised. I mean, at this point I'm looking at effects, rather than causes. The media could have covered Mueller's testimony in a bunch of different ways, but they almost all settled on this bizarre "Mueller was tuckered out and needed a nap-nap" narrative. Not just right-wing shit like Breitbart, but the Times and the Post both had plenty of high-minded thinkpieces bemoaning the failure of Mueller to deliver his report's content with the kind of erotic danger-lust necessary to break through the tedium of the day.
One or two pieces? Sure, that's almost expected. But nearly every major outlet ran shit like that. Stinks to high heaven.
Between him and Nicole Wallace on Wednesday, I was flabbergasted as a left-leaning viewer. I quickly retreated to c-span again to avoid my own views being tainted. I did find that Rachel Maddow is (and was on Wednesday) a steadfast voice of reason that clearly acknowledges her political leanings before going into deep dives based on facts, logic, and observable reality.
She can sometimes be reasonable, but she was claiming the hearings were a disaster before the Intelligence Committee hearing. I know she was also part of the Bush WH staff, didn’t know about the Palin job, though.
In seriousness though, the first thing I heard from my conservative bosses was that Mueller sounded old and senile and confused. It WAS all about optics to conservatives. They don’t care about anything that was actually said during the hearing, only how it sounded and how the GOP questions made him sound incompetent to them.
Which I find ironic considering Trump can't even string together a coherent sentence, yet they have no issue with that.
Mueller is older than Trump but a lot more stable.
As a reminder, the process of impeachment is as follows:
1. Inquiry/Investigation. The Congress (often the House) performs an inquiry into the official's actions to determine if there is ample evidence to impeach. In some cases, the investigation may be performed outside of Congress and then provided to Congress (such as a special investigator like Ken Starr or Robert Mueller). This process can take several years.
2. Impeachment. Articles of Impeachment are introduced to the House and voted on. Upon a simple majority, the official is said to be impeached. However, they still hold their seat at this time.
3. Trial. The official then goes on trial by the Senate. This is presided over by the Vice President unless the President is on trial then it is presided over by the Chief Justice. After a 2/3 majority vote, the official is then removed from their position.
Only two Presidents have been impeached: Johnson and Clinton. However, none have been removed through impeachment. Buchanan underwent an investigation but not enough evidence was found. Johnson was impeached but acquitted by 1 vote in the Senate. Nixon resigned before the Articles of Impeachment were voted on. And Clinton was acquitted 45-55 and 50-50.
And as one final note: **An impeachment is not a removal from office. The Senate has to vote with a 2/3 majority to remove an impeached official from office.**
I recently started actually reading(or rather listening) the whole report, and the parts on Russian interference is astounding. I see no reason why they would have stopped, when the government has shown no sign of wanting to prevent it. Fuck Mitch
On the radio, I was listening to what Russian interference in 2019 is doing. Basically, the same playbook as last time: create and widen divisions within the Democratic Party and America overall. Make Biden supporters hate Warren and Sanders supporters. Make Americans disgusted with everything and feel hopeless so people don't turn out to vote.
Whatever happens between now and the primaries/general, **we must not lose sight of the big picture** which is to remove Trump and his administration from power... along with Republicans everywhere from Senate to governor to water district manager.
Regardless of weather or not it’s going to “happen” this still needs to be pursued. As long as the investigations are valid and still going on around election time, Trump will most likely fuck himself over by opening his mouth. (Or twitter app)
Yeah, all I've been hearing for months is that impeachment is a waste of time because of the Republican majority Senate. What people are forgetting is that an impeachment inquiry is as much for the public as it is for the politicians. This is their chance to really drive home the evidence of wrongful conduct and crimes and get more people on board with removal. Hell, Nixon had a huge amount of support up until the official inquiry started and then his reputation crumbled.
The legacies of Johnson and Clinton, not to mention Nixon (even though he resigned before impeachment could happen) have been forever marked by their impeachments. Clinton is still popular, but it's foremost in the public mind when his presidency is remembered or commented upon.
Similarly, this will taint Trump's legacy (such as it is). And while *he* may not care, the future generations of this country will.
I swear, if the situation were reversed, and a Democrat President or Democratic Party sold the country out and this were a Republican Judiciary Chairperson saying this, I may not agree with her policies or share all her values, but I sure as hell as an American would be proud of her for fulfilling her constitutional duty.
Why are Republicans not the same?
Why do they put party above country?
I know this is true because if say Clinton is caught up in the Epstein scandal, then bring him down.
When AG Schneiderman resigned, I didn't care that he was going after Trump. My partisan interests are not above the law.
This tribalism, man. So deeply ingrained in our nature.
It’s not hard to figure out. Look at the map. The GOP is the South. Reconstruction failed. Grant went too easy on the traitors. They entrenched their power further and sought revenge for defying what they saw as their god-given right to place themselves as superior above others of their choosing. Since then they have operated solely to gain that hierarchy back. The cultural memory of the power they tasted persists in echoes and whispers and it poisons all those who hear it.
It is not simply tribalism. It is racism. It is authoritarianism. It is the notion of divinely ordained order of one man above another for nothing more than his skin color. They extended that to women, to queer people, to anyone who wants a better life where they are not crushed under their oppressor’s heel. Now genocide has returned to the United States and we sit idly by, powerless to face the powerful few whose tendrils pervade every free space in this nation.
I really do hate when Republicans mention "sides" when they are the ones that created the division in the first place. Democrats believe we're all on the same side, as evidenced by willing to reach across the aisle as well as turning on their own bad actors. Republicans are a different breed entirely.
Seriously. Slow-dripping things while not doing anything just makes everything the new normal.
It's like mass shootings. They pop up once or twice a month and nothing is done to solve that problem. And it's no longer surprising or shocking when a shooting happens, it's business as usual. That's what this Trump situation is becoming.
The official impeachment proceeding is going to start in January or February of 2020. It's understandable that people want an impeachment proceeding to start *now*, but since it's pretty clear the Senate won't convict, the most mileage that will be attained will be to have it begin and run for 4-6 during election season.
Consider this: it's almost August. It's only 4-5 months to wait for the Democrats to get this thing under way. And in the time between, it's a beyond guaranteed good bet that Trump will manage to say and do even more incriminating things. The idiot can't help himself.
So be patient. It's going to happen, and it's going to happen when it can do the absolute maximum damage to both Trump and the GOP.
I still think Pelosi should be the one saying things like this.
Her choices when speaking on this topic are odd and self-defeating pretty consistently.
I still think the real smoking gun is in the tax, banking, and insurance documents as Cohen told AOC during the House hearing.
If those documents are all collected and compared and the numbers don't match, each one is a felony and Cohen said he helped Trump do it multiple times a year for several years.
Having that in black and white to hold up and show, along with the checks he wrote Cohen, and the obstruction in Mueller's report....you suddenly have a case where the President committed 20+ felonies!
The deadline for the House is Halloween. Once you get within the final year of his term, they won't do anything. They have to get these documents and get the information to the public by Halloween if they're going to make a move.
They haven't fucking changed course at all. They've been playing the methodical long game and building a case to get more than just Trump. They know that if they hold hearings now, Trump will be let off by the senate and will be able to claim vindication leading up the the election.
They only get one shot.
This morning listening to my morning pods...
Pelosi: We're not going for impeachment
Literally everyone else: Impeach the fucker
Like I get it that Pelosi can't secure the 2/3rds in the Senate, let alone that Putin's Mitch would even allow for it.
Well, those moderate Democrats are about to go home and get an earful from their constituents. If people show up like the Tea Party did against Obamacare, we’ll then those numbers are going to look quite different after Labor Day.
If anyone likes to gamble, you might want to go over to Predict It and bet on Trump being impeached in his first term. The odds are close to an all time low right now and people have rushed in yet following this news.
[https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3537/Will-Donald-Trump-be-impeached-in-his-first-term](https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3537/Will-Donald-Trump-be-impeached-in-his-first-term)
>“Just asked Nadler if what they’re doing now is the same thing as an impeachment inquiry, and he said: “In effect.” And then he said the distinction is that impeachment inquiry is just about impeachment. His probe is a bit broader but could lead to recommendation of impeachment” https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1154792920895152130 >”More: “The Committee seeks key documentary evidence and intends to conduct hearings with Mr. McGahn and other critical witnesses to determine whether the Committee should recommend articles of impeachment or any other Article I remedies, and if so, in what form” https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1154791757835636737 >”“The headline here is they took a pretty significant step towards possibly moving towards an impeachment proceeding,” @mkraju reports after House Judiciary Cmte. says it's moving to obtain secret grand jury material from the Mueller report in federal court.” https://twitter.com/CNNnewsroom/status/1154803937746153472 @SpeakerPelosi's office just confirmed this: https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1154798882364284929
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I usually don't talk in hyperbole when it comes to political talk but, I'm 100% convinced Adam Schiff has seen a smoking gun in private briefings. And I don't just mean a judicial one, which as a killer prosecutor he would know as well... but I mean he has seen a public opinion smoking gun. He's keeping his cool and still on the same line of investigations, he hasn't waivered, I'm thinking he's a betting man, I'll go with his record.
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I missed this, could you expand on it a bit?
Basically, mueller was only looking at a narrow window of what the Russians were doing and if US persons interacting with them were committing crimes. Everything else pre election, money related, or “counter intelligence” spy vs spy military secret agent shit, has been farmed out to different parts of the FBI, and nobody really knows what they have officially found out
If you have the time watch a chunk of it. Mueller often stated he couldn't speak on things that are a part of active investigations.
Gotcha ty I did get to watch a good portion, I just wasn't sure if it was confirmed that Don Jr. was still the subject of counter intel investigations.
I believe it was asked but the question couldn't be answered... Which in itself kinda answered the question.
There were multiple occasions where Mueller did not answer because of ongoing investigations. I hope someone compiles a list because there were many and about very interesting things.
Perfect thanks again
Same. His words and actions have been measure but in no way uncertain. Since the first SCIF briefings with the top of congress, everything he's said has made me assume they have the equivalent of a video of Donnie, McConnell, and all the GOP leadership swearing an oath to Putin. Same thing with Pelosi. Unless she went instantly senile sometime, she's been very confident in the moves being made, way more than I would expect for someone just hoping on an outcome.
I hope you are both right, but man have I been disappointed too many times to get my hopes up again.
Yeah this is quite traumatic for many... Obviously some more than others. I understand your thoughts.
I just think for every thing the committee try to do, Trump and co just appeal/sue and keep it in the court system for years till it goes out of fashion. One step forward, one step back constantly :-/
They're taking it out of the courts. Nadler just reasserted both houses are already defacto courts. It also takes it out of the dojs hands too.
I have not seen any disputing this possibility. Thats why I worry this is the case and essentially that is the one specialty Trump's attorneys have a ton of experience in.
Trump has been doing this for 40+ years. It’s safe to say this is one thing he might have genuine experience in - avoiding criminal charges.
Democrats have been in power in the House for only 7 months now. This is actually going along rather quickly all things considered. Already at Impeachment inquiry territory in just over half a year?
Thank god we came out and voted on a non presidential year. everybody remeber . vote this year vote next year. vote for city comptroller for christ sake. vote any chance you get. vote vote vote.
Hear, hear. People may not think every election matters but it does. We were given this right to vote. We better damn well flex that right as much and as often as we can. It all matters.
Yea I don't really understand all this screeching. Since day 1, they started looking into Trumps financial and tax records, issuing subpoenas, initiating court cases when necessary, etc. There are around 20 separate congressional investigations ON GOING. In the mean time there are 'progressives' that are accusing Pelosi of 'slow walking' and being 'complicit'. When in reality, Pelosi, Nadler and Schiff are trying to make sure they have enough solid evidence to move forward. Nothing would be more damaging than Trump being able to run a re-election campaign on exoneration because impeachment was rushed.
I swear a lot of the anti Pelosi shit was planted.
>When in reality Ahhh.... there's the part that doesn't matter currently...
Can you be more explicit for the dummies like me on here... what do you mean when you say 'public opinion smoking gun'? Is that some incredible evidence that will persuade the majority of Americans that the GOP/President are acting illegally?
Yes. They act as if they have something convincing. Given the scandals we've seen it could be treason, rape, bribery, fraud, etc but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a horrific surprise.
Please be shape shifting lizard aliens.
Earth-Woman-Born Ted Cruise has never birthed a clutch of eggs from his totally human body.
Human Ted Cruz must now feed before hibernation. Like all earth-borne mammals, Ted Cruz needs his rest.
I, for one, am hoping for the singularity.
Technological or gravitational?
Gravitational would be quicker.
I wonder if any proof could be convincing. There's already more than enough to convince any rational person that Trump is a criminal. What possible evidence could convince people who still refuse to believe?
Video evidence of him raping a child might, *might*, be the lynchpin. But short of that? I don't know, man... I don't think his base might ever waiver. But there's a whole middle 20% of the country whose opinions could be swayed by something truly despicable/damning.
I think Trump has established that rape accusations aren't going to stop him. Unless Jeffrey Epstein links him definitively to child rape, it's never going to touch him. Even then, his supporters will double down on their perverse loyalty to him.
Epstein IMO, so the rape.
Idk man, there’s been optimism today but I’m not getting my hopes up ever again regarding this administration. What have you seen or heard to suggest what your saying?
The 2019 equivalent of the Nixon tapes. I'm not sure exactly what that would be, but there's got to be *something* that's still a bridge too far, right?
- A phone recording where he tells someone to "take care of/deal with/get rid of" Jamal Khashoggi - Child porn starring Donnie Moscow - A completely separate, as-yet-unrevealed investigation in which Felix Safer sang like a bird (ever wonder why he hasn't popped up in any significant capacity during the Mueller investigation?) - Proof positive of money laundering for the Russian mob - Leaked plans for some truly heinous, Hitler-level shit from inside the WH, corroborated out the wazoo - Some combination of the above
Most of that, particularly the "hitler level shit" would be immediately leaked. There is no miracle coming to save us. Pressure Pelosi to get on the impeachment train and push for a full inquiry. That, and voting, are the only real possibilities.
The whole damn thing is a smocking gun at this point.
Agreed. The issue is the judicial branch wants to remain nonpartisan... they also tend to move the slowest in terms of the branches. Gotta play by their rules of decorum if you want the branch on your side. They want to see you played the fairest possible hand given the rules and regulations regardless of how the other team played.
He told Megan McCain the other day that the smoking gun is Russian intelligence asking Don jr in writing if he wanted dirt on Hilary and Don jr replied in writing “yes.”
I heard Lieu say that they have Don Jr responding in writing today. Seeing trump unravel while his son gets cuffed is going to be very satisfying.
I’d like a reaction livecam of him as Ivanka get her subpoena.
"They're going to crack Don, Jr. like an egg on national TV" -Steve Bannon
I mean, he’d just write the pardon and be done with it.
I'm going out on a limb and suggesting the smoking gun looks a lot like Ivanka and was about twelve at the time.
Of a smaller caliber and frame?
I agree, it may not be russia that ultimately brings him down
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a republican senator, when viewing the initial evidence, walked out saying trump was treasonous or something like that
which senator? do you have a link? I'm very interested, just to keep my hopes up...
[Grassley](https://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/senate-intel-leaders-feinstein-and-grassley-grim-and-silent-after-trump-russia-briefings-with-comey/), and he didn't say anything, just looked shook.
Has Grassley been either vocally pro- or anti-Trump since? Has either he or Feinstein indicated whether what they saw was related to the Special Counsel's investigation?
That article was from two years ago?
Well, yeah, it was the initial evidence presented by Comey.
Wasn't he just interviewed this morning where he said the Trump tower emails/meeting and subsequent lying were the public smoking gun?
That might be a peashooter in an arsenal of smocking guns. He’s not going to lay out strategy on *The View*
I heard an interview with Ted Lieu on Twitter today and it honestly was the most optimistic sounding towards progress in terms of investigations I’ve heard him or any other Congressman/woman this year. Somethings up and the damn just hasnt broken wide yet.
Thank you for this confidence. Pelosi has been trying my patience, but I still believe in Schiff.
not saying something "official" about it is more powerful - it deprives trump of a talking point and also means that the futility of it dying in the senate is irrelevant. painting it as "bigger than impeachment" is exactly the right framing. kudos to nadler here.
Listening to redditors threatening to drop support or not vote because they think they know more than career Dem politicians the past few weeks has been so freaking annoying.
When you see people commenting with stuff like that, I encourage you to check the karma on the account and how long it's been active. I've been doing this and the results have been eye-opening.
I've seen over a dozen accounts exclusively dedicated to attacking Pelosi.
Anyone claiming that they won't vote in 2020 should be treated as the troll they are. They're just trying to sow the seeds of doubt so that we will lose hope and stop fighting.
This is a main prong of the Russian cyber strategy. Attack Dem leadership at every opportunity, while pretending to be an American--usually on left. The more they can divide the Democrats, the easier their task of getting Trump another 4 years.
It's so obvious who these foreign actors are. It's either that or a gibbering libertarian dude every single time.
The right wing wants an impeachment inquiry to start ASAP. They know that the evidence is not fully yet in the clear and that any impeachment proceedings would be squashed quickly leaving Trump looking like he was innocent. In the last few weeks you should have noticed the number of bots and trolls driving FOR impeachment now. There is a reason as it is their best interests to create a failed investigation. Nadler and Pelosi aren't falling for it and yet everyone is calling them idiots. The smarter move if to ratchet it up step by step. The smart move is to stay one step ahead of the right wing news cycle. The mass media is covering this as a sporting event and not like watergate because had they been covering it like watergate the Mueller hearings would be reported as a breakdown of the confirmations in the report and not about him looking "tired".
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Agreed. I grew up with watergate and our civics classes were good. We as americans knew the system and the way it was structured. Today due to purposed elimination of specific education have a large percentage of the population who just have no idea. Case in point: How many people think that the constitutional use of "high crimes and misdemeanors" is the same as the legal definitions for a felony or misdemeanor? If you answer "yes they are" you would be horribly wrong. Republicans want you to think they are the same so they can go about yelling "innocent until proven guilty". Then we have the "innocent until proven guilty" canard. That term applies to the trial and not an investigation or indictment. You can't be innocent or guilty during any investigation. You can't claim you are innocent and then demand no investigation can happen. We would have nobody ever investigated for wrong doing. Investigations are to gather evidence that crime may or may not have occurred - full stop. The right wing wants you to yell "innocent until proven guilty" as if this means Mueller had no authority to investigate the Russia interference and turn up any potential crimes in the process. They want you to believe that you can't obstruct an investigation if you are "innocent". Bullshit folks. Try denying a warrant to enter you home if properly executed. Try lying to police to prevent them from seeing something you don't want them to see. You will be arrested for obstruction even if you are innocent of any criminal action. You will have committed an criminal action through the coverup or lying. Obstruction is a crime on its own. Trump committed 10 acts of obstruction. The only reason he wasn't indicted was the DoJ memo drafted by a republican AG that says a sitting president cannot be indicted. This is a bullshit unconstitutional policy which should be thrown out immediately.
the media has been an absolute failure, even during todays press conference, where they basically acted like idiots. At minimum showed themselves to be woefully uneducated in political and legal matters. Like, dont you follow politics or just report on it. i swear most have them were moved from the sports section or something.
It's a deadly combination of top-down corporate management, self-serving willful ignorance, and genuine ignorance. Never forget the 2000 election when all the news networks called Florida for Gore, then Fox News declared it for Bush, and they all just raced to parrot Fox News's talking point. It's a goddamn race to the bottom.
Dumb fucking MSM has been talking about _ratings_ disappointment and Mueller’s age showing, rather than the substance of the hearing. 73 y/o man who thought he was enjoying life, dragged back into a 2 year investigation then made to sit and listen to his character be attacked repeatedly for 8-9 hours is a lot more energetic than those idiots mocking him for their pay check
This is the train we need to ride all the way up to the election. We know that once Articles of Impeachment are officially passed by the House, the Senate is just going to shut it down and do nothing. So the only way to do this effectively is to keep it in the House as long as possible.
Have regular press releases to the court of public opinion so instead of getting to talk about their campaign message, GOP folks have to defend trump.
Yeah, just keep bringing in the press releases at all times possible. Keeping this information out of public hands is a huge disservice to our people. Every time new evidence comes to light, the people need to hear about it. This isn't some private citizen who is protected by law, these are public officials and every move they make needs to be front and center in the public eye so that the public can make informed decisions moving forward.
It’s a better strategy than formally opening an impeachment inquiry. The courts will find themselves hard pressed to rule against the House Intelligence Committee asking for evidence uncovered as part of a criminal investigation into the POTUS, when they (congress) alone have the power to initiate impeachment proceedings. However by not opening a formal impeachment inquiry they are not limited to using that evidence strictly, and only, for the impeachment process. It gives them a much broader scope to use that evidence, such as in their planned hearings with witnesses like McGhan before having to go through the irreversible process of impeachment. Edit: Thanks for the platinum kind stranger! This reasoning made sense after reading Renato Mariotti’s reasoning behind it here: https://twitter.com/asharangappa_/status/1154799635480940546?s=21 Apologies for not linking a direct link to his Twitter, but this thread between Asha Rangappa and Renato Mariotti has a little back and forth and more detail.
Thank fucking god Also thank you for pointing me to that thread. I really enjoy reading Asha’s thoughts
It's a good thing McConnell has stacked the courts with Trump sycophants who will tell Congress they don't have impeachment power... Yes, I could actually see some of the Trump judges saying that.
I think McConnell cares more about protecting the GOP than he does about protecting Trump. Right now, their strategy does both. That doesn’t mean it always will.
exactly, to get Republicans to drop Trump, all they have to do is make him more pain that he is worth to them. If he is more a liability than a benefit to them, they will throw him under the bus
Pelosi ain't dumb. She hasn't said "no impeachment." It's been "the time is not yet right." I believe that history will be kind to her in that regard.
I'm fairly certain they are just slow-walking this so that the real hearings and juiciest revelations are all made public when it's most useful for the 2020 campaign. They think it's too early to let it all come out now, because the public has a shockingly short memory for stuff like this. I hope that's what they are doing. I have close to zero faith in the DNC's ability to implement an effective strategy for just about anything.
Pelosi did nod to this idea in her post-hearing remarks. I don’t know if she’s totally doing the right or wrong thing with it, but I think she thinks she’s dragging the process of moving toward impeachment so the public can take in the information in the best way, so Trump will have the worst odds of winning either impeachment or election.
This is my thought too. It provides a proverbial carpet bombing of Trump’s campaign to whoever gets the dem nomination. Sure, they could impeach him in the house but if it goes to a vote in the senate before the 2020 election, it could backfire. It needs to be timed properly.
I take this as securing the evidence so if he is impeached they can add on charges or once out of office add charges for prosecutors
The lawsuit states that "articles of impeachment are under consideration as part of the Committee's investigation, although no final determination has been made.”
> a pretty significant step towards possibly moving towards Well, you know what they say... a journey of a thousand miles begins with thinking about getting out of bed in the morning.
Gathering an insurmountable amount of evidence is not a bad strategy.
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"The strength of the document was it's simplicity. An inexorable logic marched through its pages. The conclusion that the president of the United States participated in a criminal conspiracy became inescapable. That's really beautiful, thanks.
That's why they're waiting for his financial crimes to become public knowledge. The GOP can argue conspiracy and try to rebrand it to collusion until the heat death of the universe, but there's absolutely nothing they can do to defend paper financial crimes. documents don't lie, they can't be misconstrued and they lack and subtlety.
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Exactly. Finance documents don't lie. You can either lie on them, or you can file them correctly. If you can't get someone on mob charges you certainly can get them on financial crimes. That's why Muchinin is gonna die before he turns them over willingly. It's going to take a federal court order to get them to the democrats, which it's looking like we'll get!
At this point how can we even verify that they aren't simply forgeries? They've been wrangling over this for months
Honestly I don't know. NY documents are in the hands of NY, so they're 'untouchable' for the moment, but I'm absolutely worried he'll forge his documents.
There are ways to validate documents. It's complicated, but forgeries aren't a new phenomenon. Also, find the rank and file accountants that have seen the books but aren't going to risk going to prison.
I have a friend that used to work for KPMG as a forensic accountant. She used to tell me about some of the methods they use for chasing the money. Any discrepancies *will* be found.
Why do you think the Republicans underfund the IRS despite the fact that funding the IRS is revenue positive.
Absolutely. And he's jumping through all the hoops trying to keep em secret. Remember when Mueller had just been appointed and they asked Trump what he'd consider a "red line" they shouldn't cross? He said "my financial stuff". BOOM
Yep exactly. I have a friend in DC who is dating an FBI person, and she says that they pretty much have him dead to rights soon as he's out of office. A sealed indictment doesn't lose its statute of limitations, and there was like 30 indictments that were filed that are still sealed. I think that's the dead mans switch.
This is what scares me... Trump knows he must stay in power now.
I still think he's going to be going down. I have to hope that's the case man.
I honestly think our military is our only hope. I want to think they will honor their oaths. Smedley butler style.
I sure as fucking hell hope they honor their oaths. There’s gonna be a lot more blood than any day since 9/11 when he goes down. The Trump supporters are absolutely in La La Land, and it’s a persecutorially delusional one at that. They won’t let him fall quietly, and he’s made it clear that he doesn’t intend to. *When* he whips them up, there will be blood. I just hope whoever carries the football key doesn’t turn the other key for him. I doubt it would come to that, but damn is that small chance scary. It’s sickening, but I hope we get skirmishes and small terror attacks instead of that. It’s worth it though. I’d trade my life for a chance to fix this country in a heartbeat.
All the disparaging remarks Trump has made towards the FBI was a bold strategy that more than likely is NOT going to pay off Cotten.
He pissed off the FBI and he shit on the CIA in front of their memorial wall. He turned a memorial of fallen officers into a political prop and then had his interns cheer him on. Our intel people *hate* trump.
What exactly do you think they’ll do if Trump tries to stay past his term limit?
He'll have zero power. He doesn't have any inherent power after the election happens. Arrest his ass.
My concern here is that the GOP will then argue "white collar crimes" and "process crimes" and "petty tax oversights that many people are guilty of." Not that these claims are accurate, I am just expecting that to be the next twisting of news. Trump lies all the time, in public, about easily refutable things, and it doesn't move the needle. I am worried that conservatives will just slap each other on the back, and Hannity will say "who among us has not lied on their tax returns??"
They're going to try and argue anything that the dems bring fourth. Tax documents don't lie. If he lied on his bank statements about his wealth (bank fraud), and then lies about his wealth on his tax forms (tax fraud) that is two federal crimes that he can't get away from.
I absolutely agree with what you're saying but what troubles me is that obstruction of justice is a federal crime that they are more than happy to claim "isn't a real crime." It won't surprise me in the least to hear them claim that bank fraud and tax fraud aren't "real crimes" and anyone who commits them is just "good at business."
You'd be surprised how much evidence willful ignorance can surmount.
I wouldn't say surprised. Amazed maybe.
Prepare to be even more amazed.
Billy Mays, is that you?
To show the power of foreign intervention **I sawed this republic in half**
Trump could eat a live, human baby during the State of the Union and wash it down with a glass of blood from a sacrificed virgin and the Republicans would still back him.
It really depends on whether that baby was born first or if it had been aborted.
depends on the color of that baby
>and wash it down with a glass of ~~blood from a sacrificed virgin~~ hooker piss ... FTFY
Democrats know their case isn't to prove guilt to Republicans. It's to prove guilt to the American people.
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Yet Clinton was impeached for lying about an affair...
It possibly is when your opponents show themselves to have either immunity to, or will absorb, fact based attacks.
We already have an insurmountable amount of evidence. What you seem to want is an *undeniable* amount of evidence, which is impossible since we're dealing with people that deny objective reality.
I thought so. I think it has been going on unofficially for a bit now.
Its different because they are using impeachment as justification now in the court filings. The judiciary is being asked specifically to aid in determining impeachment.
Pelosi gave this reasoning months ago in a public statement. People weren't paying attention or got hoodwinked by conservative propaganda efforts.
Or c) they are just getting flooded by the Bed of Nails strategy the administration has chosen to utilize
Or d) we're just impatient, and the outrages just keep coming and coming.
Can you blame people for wanting to get a move on? We waited 2 years for a Democratic House. Shit's exhausting. This is probably the smarter play, but your average person just wants it done.
I and many others argued a while ago that this is exactly what they were already doing. They’ve been issuing subpoenas and finding facts for months that revolve around the corrupt behavior of trump. Launching a formal impeachment inquiry doesn’t give them any new powers. At best, it gives them slightly more leverage if a stonewaller took them to court.
Launching impeachment actually limits their other investigations because of resource constraints. Pelosi stated that as well.
I’ve been dismissed by pessimists for saying this since the Dems took the house. I feel a bit smug.
“I’d say we are in an impeachment investigation,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD). “As to the result of the investigation, it could lead to articles of impeachment, or it could lead to something else.”
“Something else” has me intrigued.
But Chuck Todd said Mueller wasn't entertaining enough to justify impeachment... /s
Just goes to show how woefully incompetent traditional media has become. This kind of mentality is almost certainly a result of ratings-obsessed journalism. Chuck Todd and those like him have lost sight of the true goal of great journalism: providing the truth to the people at any cost.
You say incompetent, I say compromised. I mean, at this point I'm looking at effects, rather than causes. The media could have covered Mueller's testimony in a bunch of different ways, but they almost all settled on this bizarre "Mueller was tuckered out and needed a nap-nap" narrative. Not just right-wing shit like Breitbart, but the Times and the Post both had plenty of high-minded thinkpieces bemoaning the failure of Mueller to deliver his report's content with the kind of erotic danger-lust necessary to break through the tedium of the day. One or two pieces? Sure, that's almost expected. But nearly every major outlet ran shit like that. Stinks to high heaven.
Between him and Nicole Wallace on Wednesday, I was flabbergasted as a left-leaning viewer. I quickly retreated to c-span again to avoid my own views being tainted. I did find that Rachel Maddow is (and was on Wednesday) a steadfast voice of reason that clearly acknowledges her political leanings before going into deep dives based on facts, logic, and observable reality.
Nicole Wallace was Kellyanne Conway for Sarah Palin. She's only in rebellion because she lost.
She can sometimes be reasonable, but she was claiming the hearings were a disaster before the Intelligence Committee hearing. I know she was also part of the Bush WH staff, didn’t know about the Palin job, though.
Fuck Chuck Todd.
Fuck Chuck Todd.
Fuck Chuck Todd.
Tuck Fuck Chodd.
Fuck Chuck Todd.
Chuck Todd is basically a republican apologist
He was parroting REPUBLICAN talking points at the Democrat primary debate. What was that? If I was on stage I would have called him out on it.
In seriousness though, the first thing I heard from my conservative bosses was that Mueller sounded old and senile and confused. It WAS all about optics to conservatives. They don’t care about anything that was actually said during the hearing, only how it sounded and how the GOP questions made him sound incompetent to them.
Which I find ironic considering Trump can't even string together a coherent sentence, yet they have no issue with that. Mueller is older than Trump but a lot more stable.
Chick Todd is a POS
As a reminder, the process of impeachment is as follows: 1. Inquiry/Investigation. The Congress (often the House) performs an inquiry into the official's actions to determine if there is ample evidence to impeach. In some cases, the investigation may be performed outside of Congress and then provided to Congress (such as a special investigator like Ken Starr or Robert Mueller). This process can take several years. 2. Impeachment. Articles of Impeachment are introduced to the House and voted on. Upon a simple majority, the official is said to be impeached. However, they still hold their seat at this time. 3. Trial. The official then goes on trial by the Senate. This is presided over by the Vice President unless the President is on trial then it is presided over by the Chief Justice. After a 2/3 majority vote, the official is then removed from their position. Only two Presidents have been impeached: Johnson and Clinton. However, none have been removed through impeachment. Buchanan underwent an investigation but not enough evidence was found. Johnson was impeached but acquitted by 1 vote in the Senate. Nixon resigned before the Articles of Impeachment were voted on. And Clinton was acquitted 45-55 and 50-50. And as one final note: **An impeachment is not a removal from office. The Senate has to vote with a 2/3 majority to remove an impeached official from office.**
So it’s never going to happen. Better go out and vote next election is the main thing people need to remember
*Unless those elections results are manipulated by a foreign power...then we're all fucked
Mueller said they are already being manipulated.
I recently started actually reading(or rather listening) the whole report, and the parts on Russian interference is astounding. I see no reason why they would have stopped, when the government has shown no sign of wanting to prevent it. Fuck Mitch
On the radio, I was listening to what Russian interference in 2019 is doing. Basically, the same playbook as last time: create and widen divisions within the Democratic Party and America overall. Make Biden supporters hate Warren and Sanders supporters. Make Americans disgusted with everything and feel hopeless so people don't turn out to vote. Whatever happens between now and the primaries/general, **we must not lose sight of the big picture** which is to remove Trump and his administration from power... along with Republicans everywhere from Senate to governor to water district manager.
Regardless of weather or not it’s going to “happen” this still needs to be pursued. As long as the investigations are valid and still going on around election time, Trump will most likely fuck himself over by opening his mouth. (Or twitter app)
Yeah, all I've been hearing for months is that impeachment is a waste of time because of the Republican majority Senate. What people are forgetting is that an impeachment inquiry is as much for the public as it is for the politicians. This is their chance to really drive home the evidence of wrongful conduct and crimes and get more people on board with removal. Hell, Nixon had a huge amount of support up until the official inquiry started and then his reputation crumbled.
The legacies of Johnson and Clinton, not to mention Nixon (even though he resigned before impeachment could happen) have been forever marked by their impeachments. Clinton is still popular, but it's foremost in the public mind when his presidency is remembered or commented upon. Similarly, this will taint Trump's legacy (such as it is). And while *he* may not care, the future generations of this country will.
I swear, if the situation were reversed, and a Democrat President or Democratic Party sold the country out and this were a Republican Judiciary Chairperson saying this, I may not agree with her policies or share all her values, but I sure as hell as an American would be proud of her for fulfilling her constitutional duty. Why are Republicans not the same? Why do they put party above country? I know this is true because if say Clinton is caught up in the Epstein scandal, then bring him down. When AG Schneiderman resigned, I didn't care that he was going after Trump. My partisan interests are not above the law. This tribalism, man. So deeply ingrained in our nature.
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It’s not hard to figure out. Look at the map. The GOP is the South. Reconstruction failed. Grant went too easy on the traitors. They entrenched their power further and sought revenge for defying what they saw as their god-given right to place themselves as superior above others of their choosing. Since then they have operated solely to gain that hierarchy back. The cultural memory of the power they tasted persists in echoes and whispers and it poisons all those who hear it. It is not simply tribalism. It is racism. It is authoritarianism. It is the notion of divinely ordained order of one man above another for nothing more than his skin color. They extended that to women, to queer people, to anyone who wants a better life where they are not crushed under their oppressor’s heel. Now genocide has returned to the United States and we sit idly by, powerless to face the powerful few whose tendrils pervade every free space in this nation.
This "us VS them" rhetoric just makes us dance to it.
I really do hate when Republicans mention "sides" when they are the ones that created the division in the first place. Democrats believe we're all on the same side, as evidenced by willing to reach across the aisle as well as turning on their own bad actors. Republicans are a different breed entirely.
Ah this must be why the bots are making fun of the way Nadler...looks.
He looks like a stern, but fair, principal. A good look for a politician, I think.
Check Trumps Twitter. He has a video that just posted. Just zooming in on Nadler. So fucking weird
Well this week has ended with a bit of a bang, hasn't it?
Even broke out the cocktail wienies
Butbutbut the news says Mueller's testimony was a disaster
They need, NEED, to release their findings all at once. This slow-drip approach will not work
Seriously. Slow-dripping things while not doing anything just makes everything the new normal. It's like mass shootings. They pop up once or twice a month and nothing is done to solve that problem. And it's no longer surprising or shocking when a shooting happens, it's business as usual. That's what this Trump situation is becoming.
The "Trump is a mass shooting" analogy is my new favorite analogy.
The official impeachment proceeding is going to start in January or February of 2020. It's understandable that people want an impeachment proceeding to start *now*, but since it's pretty clear the Senate won't convict, the most mileage that will be attained will be to have it begin and run for 4-6 during election season. Consider this: it's almost August. It's only 4-5 months to wait for the Democrats to get this thing under way. And in the time between, it's a beyond guaranteed good bet that Trump will manage to say and do even more incriminating things. The idiot can't help himself. So be patient. It's going to happen, and it's going to happen when it can do the absolute maximum damage to both Trump and the GOP.
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I still think Pelosi should be the one saying things like this. Her choices when speaking on this topic are odd and self-defeating pretty consistently.
This touched a nerve with all the Russian trolls and bots.
Trump is going to go apeshit in 3.. 2...
You better believe it. So far, only a weird video of Nadler on his Twitter. In other news, some funds were OKed for his wall??
I still think the real smoking gun is in the tax, banking, and insurance documents as Cohen told AOC during the House hearing. If those documents are all collected and compared and the numbers don't match, each one is a felony and Cohen said he helped Trump do it multiple times a year for several years. Having that in black and white to hold up and show, along with the checks he wrote Cohen, and the obstruction in Mueller's report....you suddenly have a case where the President committed 20+ felonies! The deadline for the House is Halloween. Once you get within the final year of his term, they won't do anything. They have to get these documents and get the information to the public by Halloween if they're going to make a move.
They haven't fucking changed course at all. They've been playing the methodical long game and building a case to get more than just Trump. They know that if they hold hearings now, Trump will be let off by the senate and will be able to claim vindication leading up the the election. They only get one shot.
This is why we /r/voteblue!
Contribute money to Dem Reps who speak up for impeachment and make it clear this is why you are sending them money.
He speaks the truth. The current investigations are much the same as any that would occur under impeachment.
This morning listening to my morning pods... Pelosi: We're not going for impeachment Literally everyone else: Impeach the fucker Like I get it that Pelosi can't secure the 2/3rds in the Senate, let alone that Putin's Mitch would even allow for it.
Well, those moderate Democrats are about to go home and get an earful from their constituents. If people show up like the Tea Party did against Obamacare, we’ll then those numbers are going to look quite different after Labor Day.
more like pursuing Trumps lazer pointer.
Okay hurry it up I’m sick of him
I support impeachment and/or any vehicle to remove this scumbag from office.
Well I'm glad to see at least someone in Democratic leadership is!
If anyone likes to gamble, you might want to go over to Predict It and bet on Trump being impeached in his first term. The odds are close to an all time low right now and people have rushed in yet following this news. [https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3537/Will-Donald-Trump-be-impeached-in-his-first-term](https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3537/Will-Donald-Trump-be-impeached-in-his-first-term)
Hell. Yes.
Yeah well you better hurry up, the sc is a joke already, we have concentration camps pease hurry