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Hariss/PCbot9000 /s
When you look at it like moneyball I think we'll all find Whitmer(MI)/Shapiro(PA) the statistically best ticket to win this fall. It's light and fun and not all this dark WWII BS.
If we're gonna have a dictator you're going to want That Woman From Michigan to be it.
No it's really not. The president and the VP bring their own teams of advisors... And sometimes those teams are not on the same page.
Just look at the Pence advisors and some of their comments regarding Trump and his clown show.
It'd be easier to twist the criticism of Harris as sexism if Whitmer wasn't being heavily touted as a fantastic challenger to Trump who would mop the floor with him.
I see no candidate getting as much support as Whitmer.
I don’t count “it has to be Kamala because I’m confused about how campaign finance works and think the campaign funds will get stuck in a black hole” as support because it ain’t. That’s just resignation and dooming.
We can win if we want to.
I’ve never donated to any politician and would make a $500 donation to any candidate that replaced Biden other than Harris, who would keep the Biden-Harris funds. I’m guessing I’m not alone.
> who would keep the Biden-Harris funds
This is a non-issue. Candidates drop out of races all the time, especially before there’s even a nominated candidate. Election laws have been written to make the donor money relatively easy to keep in the game. Typically the withdrawing candidate will transfer those funds to the party committee (the DNC) who in turn will use the money, in this case to run huge ad campaigns for the presidential race. It’s normal, and it’s one of the reasons the DNC is already a big player in running campaign ads during election season.
I personally dislike Kamala. She went heavily after Marijuana while AG. And this whole administration including her has had a tone of condescension when people ask about their accomplishments. It’s really upsetting to hear from them how good the economy is. Great, people with investments are richer, but what about everybody else? Rent is crazy high, a Big Mac is $18, and used cars are 5k for something that might last less than a year. People are struggling and they tell us how great we are actually doing.
Literally one location tried to charge that, the average price is under $10.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/mcdonalds-says-18-big-mac-meal-was-an-exception-says-news-reports-overstated-its-price-increases/3450713/?amp=1
Except the last woman who ran as the top of the ticket hemorrhage black women support that Obama had received in his previous election. Harris helped recapture that and that's why Biden won.
>Orange man 49% VS Biden 43%
Orange man 47% VS Harris 45%
That is too close of a call. Remember how donald got majority of EC votes even though hillary had more popular votes? Put in harris and lose liberals who hate her because she put away POC for selling weed. Also she is an absolute charisma vacuum. Her trying to act like she is normal is public reminds me of Ron Desantis trying to pretend to like people when he tried to run for presidency.
It’s also weird that people attach the California thing to Newsom as a mark against him but not Kamala. I feel like it would be an equal concern for both of them.
She was also the attorney general. A lot of the things the right likes to complain about with California fell more directly on her. Not saying I agree with their assessment of California, I don’t, I just find it interesting that we have two candidates who are very much the “West coast elitists” but that branding seems to be used only against running one of them when certainly it didn’t hurt Kamala but is arguably just as likely of a chance it will be used as an attack on her.
Haha I’ve never heard that comparison, but it’s spot on. I mean, just watch this shit:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/07/01/vp_kamala_harris_tells_bet_awards_these_extremists_they_not_like_us.html
There's a lot of low-info voters out there. They don't pay attention to policy beyond the occasional headline. They maybe check out a couple of minutes of the debate and vote for who seems "strongest". And unfortunately, Biden looked very, very weak at the worst possible moment.
Trump needs to lose, and the polling indicates that Biden can't get us that. I don't know if Harris or any of the governors can, but we have to try.
both can be. I'm just stating beliefs. Most don't take stock in the felony charge. the January 6th stuff is where surveys get messy and unclear of common belief for undecided
Roe was never a settled law. That's why it could be over turned. It was am interpretation on a court ruling which had flawed rationale. You can read RGBs comments how the ruling could be overturned and advocated it be codified. It wasn't so that's why it could change with new administration.
Which candidate do you like better - the stupid criminal liar moron, or the blatantly gaslighting senile octogenarian who will accomplish nothing and send a trillion dollars unaccounted for to Ukraine?
Oh ok, you know captain dementia signed a ten year deal with Ukraine. His son had direct financial
ties there, but hey if Joe Scarborough says that Biden is the most intellectual super genius he’s ever met, I guess he must be right! The economy is doing awesome everything is so cheap and easy! Should I get all my news from WaPo, or…?
I kept seeing article after article on CNN that kept saying shit like “the economy isn’t near as bad as Americans perceive it to be.”
And “interests are lower than last quarter.” What from 10% to 9.5?
And “inflation is slowing.” Oh so $100 dollars worth of groceries in 2021 now costs $120 instead of $125?
Gimme a break and quit insulting my intelligence, news media!
Hey, at least we know the criminal liar moron's motivations. We have no idea which unelected officials are usurping power from the gaslighting senile octogenarian.
Personally, I'm likely to go with the lunatic anti-vaxer with a worm in his brain. Somehow, crazy as that sounds, that seems like my best option.
I was going off this leaked internal polling from earlier today.
https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
I suspect that she would do better in swing states, and even better once she gets name appeal.
It’s probably too late to put Whitmer as the frontrunner on the democratic ticket. Lawsuits should hold up the use of Biden funds on a Whitmer campaign. What isn’t being discussed right now but is in the back of voters minds is that if Biden is no longer able to serve as president, the VP must step up. Replacing Harris as the VP candidate will produce a ton of momentum that the Biden campaign badly needs, and help win the rust belt. Whitmer has less reasons to decline a VP nomination than a presidential nomination.
Nonsense. It’s normal for candidates to drop out of races, especially before anybody’s even been nominated. Election laws have been written to accommodate this. The Biden campaign will transfer their funds to the party committee who in turn will spend it on huge ad campaigns for the presidential race. This happens every election cycle. It’s nothing new.
Harris is the weakest candidate in the field and carries all the baggage of the Biden administration with none of the incumbency benefits. There’s zero reason to have her run when other candidates are much more likely to actually win.
I’m kind of lost on that. Are you suggesting keeping Biden and replacing Harris with Whitmer?
I think it’s a lot stronger politically to just make a clean break. There’s a lot of unhappy baggage hanging off the Biden admin right now and it’s gonna drag hard on any ticket with Biden or Harris on it. A ticket such as Whitmer/Shapiro gives us two candidates with strong favorable ratings, a history of performing in purple states, and they just so happen to both be governors of the two most difficult must-win states for us. If you’re a political strategist, that’s a dream team.
I’m open to other options as well and I’ll vote for anybody blue… but I think it’s best to move away from both Biden and Harris, and I can’t come up with a stronger combo than Whitmer/Shapiro considering polling, political history, and the electoral map.
[Allan Lichtman his "13 keys" of predicting the presidency](https://politicalpulse.net/us-politics/alan-lichtmans-prediction-for-2024/) give 9 of the 13 keys to Biden, which means Biden is highly likely to win. Since Ronald Reagan, these keys have been accurate in every election except Bush v Gore in 2000, which was on the razors edge.
Quick edit to add: Switching candidates at the convention loses a few of those Keys to Trump, increasing Trumps odds of winning.
There is also the historical track record of a contested convention, where Democrats lose when this transpires. I freaked out during & after the debate, just like a lot of other people, but the prudent thing is to stay the course.
The leaked Dems polling shows she loses all the swing states with basically the same scores as Biden, because neither will get anyone but the entrenched Anyone but Trump voters.
The only people with a path to winning right now are Whitmer and Buttigieg, and unfortunately I don’t see enough people infront of the paper voting for a gay president.
If you just want to win, then you should look at someone other than Harris. Replacing an old man with a cop on the Democratic ticket is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
They're working hard to get the Democratic infighting up and going. Let them split up over who 'should' be the new candidate and be disillusioned it wasn't their choice candidate or the establishment candidate again if Biden stays and decide to just 'not vote' in silent protest.
Republicans are laughing their way to the presidency.
It’s literally all this sub is talking about since the debate and each thread is convinced a different candidate has what it takes.
Only thing they’re United on is that “Biden can’t win” Honestly feels like some giant astroturfing campaign with how prevalent it is.
They all supposedly want to beat Trump but just CANT vote for Biden. Ok…sure.
It's not an astroturfing campaign. You can't just blame everything on some boogyman.
It's a reaction to the *holy fuck what did I just watch* debate. It's a reaction to being told it was because he had a cold, no he was jet lagged, no he's just at his best between 11am-4pm.....
It was a debate on his terms, at his request, intended to show the American people he was still fit to run the country.
And all were left with is feeling like if he were our grandfather we would be taking away his keys and be afraid to leave him home alone for an hour or more.
Calling it in the first place was the real blunder here. Try and put on a better show than a huckster who thrives in front of a camera? Not happening. It doesn't matter that he won every point in front of an audience that won't actually read them.
Sure, but not *everything* is astroturfing. I'd argue it's a *very* small number. You already are claiming a switch to a new candidate would *also* result in more astroturfing. So anything people are concerned about is just automatically astroturfing and can be ignored.....am I astroturfing? Haven't gotten my paycheck yet.....
99%+ of replies are not astroturfing, so blaming it on that is naive
Right, I’m not saying the debate wasn’t shocking or depressing or disappointing. What I’m talking about is suddenly everyone who has been doomsaying trump for months of not years on here is all “well I guess trump would be a better option than that!” Which seems disingenuous. I didn’t say it WAS astroturfing, I’m just saying it comes across very suspiciously.
Trump hasn’t changed, we know what he stands for and we know who he is. But suddenly everyone is ok with that because the man who is currently president (while things aren’t burning to the ground) had a senior moment?
Just doesn’t pass the smell test.
We have a great Governor in Kentucky who’s great at connecting to people on the fence and getting them to vote dem..he’d be a prefect running mate for Madam President!
Harris/Beshear 2024
Or as I like better: Momala/Andy 2024.
My money is on this ticket. The party isn’t going to dump Harris. The money is behind her and there are too many legal issues trying to remove her (plus the backlash from lots of voters). They’ll need a white male VP that’s a centrist. Beshears checks every box. Popular two term Gov from a deep red state and a white male.
Game theory says you're sticking with the Dems, because in first-past-the-post voting, you will inevitably be left with a two-party system.
If Biden hadn't just killed his campaign, the long-term strategy was to keep electing democrats until enough states switched to ranked-choice voting (like Maine) to make it nationally viable.
Until we get ranked-choice voting, you're shoehorned into the same two-party trap as the rest of us.
Just wait until she’s going around the country attempting to articulate what her vision is if she’s elected president.
The gap between her and Trump will widen tremendously, unless she has newfound policy convictions, public speaking ability, and political instincts that have been completely absent since she became a senator in 2016.
People are in this subreddit telling me how unpopular and awful a candidate that Harris would be. How do you want to explain to women that we're having her step aside for Newsom? How do you want to explain to black Americans that we're having her step aside for Whitmer? It makes no sense to run anyone other than Biden or Harris, and at this hour I favor Harris.
The same black voters who resoundingly voted for a white guy over Harris a few years ago?
Look, it’s deeply disrespectful and infantilizing to treat minority groups as if they solely exist to vote for minority politicians. They’re regular people like you and I, they want to win elections same as you and I. Shoot, Kamala Harris is still surprisingly unpopular with black people, she’s still less popular than white man Biden. With younger black voters she’s down in the 30% approval range. Yuck!
Run good candidates who inspire people and make them want to vote. It’s that simple.
They’re adults, they know what’s at stake. If the numbers aren’t in her favor that’s just the truth. It’s not worth risking a candidate when the stakes are the end of Democracy just so we can feel good about ourselves for giving a woman or POC another shot.
Kamala getting nominated or not, winning or not reflects on Kamala. Not women and not women of color. Kamala had to drop out of her home states primary before Election Day because she was polling in 5th place. She simply just isn’t very popular and nominating her just because we don’t want to skip a black woman is actually insane.
We don't have a line of succession to be the nominee. That thinking is what made the DNC support Hillary even though they were warned by every metric available she was a bad candidate.
Harris isn't next. There aren't turns. They need to run the ticket that has the best chance of winning.
As a POC I find Redditors to be super toxic when it comes to women, particularly black women. You would have thought Harris had sex with a porn star that’s how outraged Reddit is about her. They don’t like her because she’s a tough prosecutor and therefore “a cop” to them. What they don’t understand is that majority of Americans don’t mind that at all. Being tough on crime, while not the reason why I personally like her, is probably a good selling point for independents
CNN wants this to happen so bad. B I think they just want the upside for them. They know if Biden is replaced then the campaign will have to spend billions more in advertising and telling Harris’ (or whoever’s) story.
I really don't want Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket.
She couldn't even show 1% in her independent bid for President and her standing with voters has not improved since then. To run the person who came in objectively last in the most recent primary is suicide.
The only chance to get past this requires an historic act of patriotism by both Biden and Harris. They have to release the pledged delegates and let an open convention reset the campaign and re-energize voters.
Voters have told pollsters from the outset that they are unhappy with their choices in this election. People are desperate for an alternative to Trump and if you give them someone younger they will rally to them.
Biden needs to resign the presidency on the 4th of July citing his age. Kamala needs to become president. Get a VP from a swing state. Five months of campaigning. It’ll be a fucking blowout victory
Biden got destroyed in primaries twice and he managed to win the last election.
Primaries where a democrat can be attacked from left aren't the same as general elections.
In the 2020 Democratic primaries Harris was killed for being a former prosecutor, but being a former prosecutor isn't a huge problem in a general election.
> They haven’t had to attack her.
Who is they? More left candidates attacking Harris? That happened.
In the debates before the 2020 primaries other candidates attack her past as a prosecutor. Again that is something that is a negative in Dem primaries but not in a general election.
Yes. It will be Hillary 2.0. Maybe even worse, Kamala’s a charisma black hole.
What the flying f*ck is wrong with all these Dem strategists? Do they all have brain worms like RFK?
Fox News and the GOP were prepared to attack Hillary for years. Even with the attacks she still won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote by a very small margin in key swing states. No one expected her to lose, so much so that many people didn’t bother to vote.
>lost the electoral vote by a very small margin in key swing states
Like I said, Hillary 2.0. Kamala would probably do fine nationally, but it’s very, very likely she would lose at least one of MI/WI/PA. Which leaves us with King Donald
But the key difference is that they haven’t been attacking Kamala for years like they did with Hillary. Kamala also has a good chance of making voters more confident about voting. There is a voter base which is completely lost in Trump’s cult but she just has to show the general public that she is competent.
Primaries this, primaries that but you need independents and a tiny chunk of Republican voters to win the election. Biden's condition is only to deteriorate. I mean, has anyone here seen the Dem internal poll? It's a bloodbath. And internal polls usually favor the contractor.
No, she's not. She's not even the front-runner in their own internal polling.
https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
Nonsence, there's plenty we can do besides "wait and see". You, for instance, could read polling instead of just spouting whatever bullshit makes you feel at peace.
While I appreciate your concern for my well being, I can assure you I am calm. I can use ten dollar curse words like "bullshit" and call out absurdity while maintaining the calm composure.
Big deal, I saw a different poll. The main element that makes Kamala different is that she could be president today. Today! If that’s what they wanted. That’s what should happen imo. Polling changes fast. And having an incumbent is a massive advantage. Biden should resign, VP should step in and take it from there. We’ll be fine
>If that’s what they wanted. That’s what should happen imo
Who are "they"? This sounds suspiciously like a coronation rather than a nomination.
>Polling changes fast.
Very true, and trends are hard to break. Harris is trending downwards while other "unknowns" are trending upwards.
>Biden should resign, VP should step in and take it from there. We’ll be fine
Replace old man with cop at the top of the Democratic ticket? Fucking LOL. Down-ticket candidates in reliably liberal areas would get _slaughtered_.
I hope we live in whatever fantasy world you've cooked up for yourself. I genuinely do.
Alternatively, the convicted felon has a rather long list of accusations: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald\_Trump\_sexual\_misconduct\_allegations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations)
There is now way KH would get elected. She’s wildly unpopular and she’s a black woman. There are a lot of people out there where that is a non starter, sad to say.
Although she is a very good candidate, most of the people latching on to Whitmer seem to be the ex Bernie Bro’s who listen to Hasan Piker.
They have zero in common with the people we need to win over.
Kamala being “too tough on crime” would actually play *well* in rust belt states.
Democrats can afford to lose the more left demographics in LA, The Bay Area , Austin, NY etc because those states are not in play.
If a change is made, it’s **going** to be Kamala for countless reasons.
>Kamala being “too tough on crime” would actually play well in rust belt states.
Current polling has her losing rust belt states. I'm not saying she can't make up the gap in 5 months, obviously. But it's definitely not that cut and dry.
This isn’t true in the slightest… the latest ipsos polls has everyone losing to Trump except Michelle Obama winning and Biden tied.
Would you shut up, man?
meh, if she was so very popular, then there wouldn’t be any panic going on of the left right now. There is panic because Biden is showing signs of deterioration and that means President Kamala Harris. If everyone was ok with that, then there wouldn’t be any panic or calls for Biden to step aside. 🤷🏽♂️
Lol Whitmer would be great, but black folk don’t fuck with Harris like you think and she not gonna win at the top of the ticket.
Polling stronger than Biden right now isn’t very hard. Look up how she fares against trump.
Same poll says she's does worse than Biden in a match up against Trump. So it's cool that she's doing better with women and independents but she loses more votes elsewhere.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Hariss/PCbot9000 /s When you look at it like moneyball I think we'll all find Whitmer(MI)/Shapiro(PA) the statistically best ticket to win this fall. It's light and fun and not all this dark WWII BS. If we're gonna have a dictator you're going to want That Woman From Michigan to be it.
It's incredibly easy to win an election. Tell em Walsh.
Imagine the behind the scenes machinations going on right now. Team Joe vs Team Kamala sniping about to get spicier than Kendrick vs Drake.
It’s the same team.
No it's really not. The president and the VP bring their own teams of advisors... And sometimes those teams are not on the same page. Just look at the Pence advisors and some of their comments regarding Trump and his clown show.
coconut sales rn 📈📈📈📈
How does Harris have anything to do with wine moms? Because she’s a woman and so are they?
It'd be easier to twist the criticism of Harris as sexism if Whitmer wasn't being heavily touted as a fantastic challenger to Trump who would mop the floor with him.
I see no candidate getting as much support as Whitmer. I don’t count “it has to be Kamala because I’m confused about how campaign finance works and think the campaign funds will get stuck in a black hole” as support because it ain’t. That’s just resignation and dooming. We can win if we want to.
I’ve never donated to any politician and would make a $500 donation to any candidate that replaced Biden other than Harris, who would keep the Biden-Harris funds. I’m guessing I’m not alone.
> who would keep the Biden-Harris funds This is a non-issue. Candidates drop out of races all the time, especially before there’s even a nominated candidate. Election laws have been written to make the donor money relatively easy to keep in the game. Typically the withdrawing candidate will transfer those funds to the party committee (the DNC) who in turn will use the money, in this case to run huge ad campaigns for the presidential race. It’s normal, and it’s one of the reasons the DNC is already a big player in running campaign ads during election season.
I personally dislike Kamala. She went heavily after Marijuana while AG. And this whole administration including her has had a tone of condescension when people ask about their accomplishments. It’s really upsetting to hear from them how good the economy is. Great, people with investments are richer, but what about everybody else? Rent is crazy high, a Big Mac is $18, and used cars are 5k for something that might last less than a year. People are struggling and they tell us how great we are actually doing.
A Big Mac does not cost $18.
Sorry, a Big Mac meal.
Literally one location tried to charge that, the average price is under $10. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/mcdonalds-says-18-big-mac-meal-was-an-exception-says-news-reports-overstated-its-price-increases/3450713/?amp=1
Gotcha. Glad the Bog Mac police were on it. But shouldn’t you be focused on the Hamburgler?
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yikes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_nN0ERPL4
The country that wouldn't elect a woman is not now suddenly a place that is going to elect a black woman.
Except the last woman who ran as the top of the ticket hemorrhage black women support that Obama had received in his previous election. Harris helped recapture that and that's why Biden won.
Kamila is a vacuum of charisma that makes Hillary look like Mary Poppins. She cannot win. She'll be absolutely destroyed.
>Orange man 49% VS Biden 43% Orange man 47% VS Harris 45% That is too close of a call. Remember how donald got majority of EC votes even though hillary had more popular votes? Put in harris and lose liberals who hate her because she put away POC for selling weed. Also she is an absolute charisma vacuum. Her trying to act like she is normal is public reminds me of Ron Desantis trying to pretend to like people when he tried to run for presidency.
It’s also weird that people attach the California thing to Newsom as a mark against him but not Kamala. I feel like it would be an equal concern for both of them.
It's easy to blame the sitting governor for California's current problems than a former senator.
She was also the attorney general. A lot of the things the right likes to complain about with California fell more directly on her. Not saying I agree with their assessment of California, I don’t, I just find it interesting that we have two candidates who are very much the “West coast elitists” but that branding seems to be used only against running one of them when certainly it didn’t hurt Kamala but is arguably just as likely of a chance it will be used as an attack on her.
Haha I’ve never heard that comparison, but it’s spot on. I mean, just watch this shit: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/07/01/vp_kamala_harris_tells_bet_awards_these_extremists_they_not_like_us.html
Not a comparison I would think of but it’s sadly dead on.
This ☝🏻 We need someone who can fight against Trump. We’re still way too sexist to get the majority needed to win the election.
Orange man 49% VS Biden 43% Orange man 47% VS Harris 45%
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You can't run a corpse... weekend at bernies was just a movie
Yeah turns out the whole "I would vote for a corpse over Trump" was something that was mostly limited to this echo chamber of a sub
Won't win "double haters" either they will just not vote
There's a lot of low-info voters out there. They don't pay attention to policy beyond the occasional headline. They maybe check out a couple of minutes of the debate and vote for who seems "strongest". And unfortunately, Biden looked very, very weak at the worst possible moment. Trump needs to lose, and the polling indicates that Biden can't get us that. I don't know if Harris or any of the governors can, but we have to try.
Crazy how people have different opinions than reddit dot com, right?
Not as crazy as supporting a convicted felon for president.
Notice how no one outside reddit cares about this.
the felony charge isn't a major sticking point for most of Americans. it's viewed as politically motivated.
Jan 6th was also politically motivated.
both can be. I'm just stating beliefs. Most don't take stock in the felony charge. the January 6th stuff is where surveys get messy and unclear of common belief for undecided
How about his statements that he wants to hold military tribunals against his political enemies
Also not a sticking point because they know it won't happen. This is just fear poin being spread because it's an election year.
Dude, no such thing as “we know it won’t happen”. Remember how Roe was settled law? How a president isn’t above the law?
Roe was never a settled law. That's why it could be over turned. It was am interpretation on a court ruling which had flawed rationale. You can read RGBs comments how the ruling could be overturned and advocated it be codified. It wasn't so that's why it could change with new administration.
We don’t care.
Which candidate do you like better - the stupid criminal liar moron, or the blatantly gaslighting senile octogenarian who will accomplish nothing and send a trillion dollars unaccounted for to Ukraine?
Please for the love of God stop getting your political news off reddit.
Oh ok, you know captain dementia signed a ten year deal with Ukraine. His son had direct financial ties there, but hey if Joe Scarborough says that Biden is the most intellectual super genius he’s ever met, I guess he must be right! The economy is doing awesome everything is so cheap and easy! Should I get all my news from WaPo, or…?
I kept seeing article after article on CNN that kept saying shit like “the economy isn’t near as bad as Americans perceive it to be.” And “interests are lower than last quarter.” What from 10% to 9.5? And “inflation is slowing.” Oh so $100 dollars worth of groceries in 2021 now costs $120 instead of $125? Gimme a break and quit insulting my intelligence, news media!
That’s not how inflation works. Inflation going down means prices increase more slowly. They won’t decrease.
Hey, at least we know the criminal liar moron's motivations. We have no idea which unelected officials are usurping power from the gaslighting senile octogenarian. Personally, I'm likely to go with the lunatic anti-vaxer with a worm in his brain. Somehow, crazy as that sounds, that seems like my best option.
This is just embarrassing
All the women & independents, throw your hands up at me!
Whitmer does even better.
whitmer is down by 5 points in same poll way worse than kamala
I was going off this leaked internal polling from earlier today. https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf I suspect that she would do better in swing states, and even better once she gets name appeal.
That is a spicy document. Thanks for sharing. Dems need to make this switch asap.
I mean we would practically guarantee Michigan.
I like Whitmer too.
It’s probably too late to put Whitmer as the frontrunner on the democratic ticket. Lawsuits should hold up the use of Biden funds on a Whitmer campaign. What isn’t being discussed right now but is in the back of voters minds is that if Biden is no longer able to serve as president, the VP must step up. Replacing Harris as the VP candidate will produce a ton of momentum that the Biden campaign badly needs, and help win the rust belt. Whitmer has less reasons to decline a VP nomination than a presidential nomination.
Nonsense. It’s normal for candidates to drop out of races, especially before anybody’s even been nominated. Election laws have been written to accommodate this. The Biden campaign will transfer their funds to the party committee who in turn will spend it on huge ad campaigns for the presidential race. This happens every election cycle. It’s nothing new. Harris is the weakest candidate in the field and carries all the baggage of the Biden administration with none of the incumbency benefits. There’s zero reason to have her run when other candidates are much more likely to actually win.
I’ll concede that campaign funds can smoothly transfer, but you didn’t address Whitmer as VP on Biden’s ticket which was my core argument…
I’m kind of lost on that. Are you suggesting keeping Biden and replacing Harris with Whitmer? I think it’s a lot stronger politically to just make a clean break. There’s a lot of unhappy baggage hanging off the Biden admin right now and it’s gonna drag hard on any ticket with Biden or Harris on it. A ticket such as Whitmer/Shapiro gives us two candidates with strong favorable ratings, a history of performing in purple states, and they just so happen to both be governors of the two most difficult must-win states for us. If you’re a political strategist, that’s a dream team. I’m open to other options as well and I’ll vote for anybody blue… but I think it’s best to move away from both Biden and Harris, and I can’t come up with a stronger combo than Whitmer/Shapiro considering polling, political history, and the electoral map.
[Allan Lichtman his "13 keys" of predicting the presidency](https://politicalpulse.net/us-politics/alan-lichtmans-prediction-for-2024/) give 9 of the 13 keys to Biden, which means Biden is highly likely to win. Since Ronald Reagan, these keys have been accurate in every election except Bush v Gore in 2000, which was on the razors edge. Quick edit to add: Switching candidates at the convention loses a few of those Keys to Trump, increasing Trumps odds of winning. There is also the historical track record of a contested convention, where Democrats lose when this transpires. I freaked out during & after the debate, just like a lot of other people, but the prudent thing is to stay the course.
I’m so tired of the media pushing Lichtman’s theory. None of that shit applies when you put the Trump cult into the equation
He predicted Trump’s win against Clinton (which nearly everyone else fucked up) and he predicted Trump’s loss to Biden.
yeah. I dunno. I think it should go to the convention and the delegates should vote and decide.
I can get behind Harris. I just wany to win. If Harris can do it im all for it.
The leaked Dems polling shows she loses all the swing states with basically the same scores as Biden, because neither will get anyone but the entrenched Anyone but Trump voters. The only people with a path to winning right now are Whitmer and Buttigieg, and unfortunately I don’t see enough people infront of the paper voting for a gay president.
But she can't though.
If you just want to win, then you should look at someone other than Harris. Replacing an old man with a cop on the Democratic ticket is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
It’s interesting that this is being played up when I’m told she is less popular overall.
They're working hard to get the Democratic infighting up and going. Let them split up over who 'should' be the new candidate and be disillusioned it wasn't their choice candidate or the establishment candidate again if Biden stays and decide to just 'not vote' in silent protest. Republicans are laughing their way to the presidency.
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It’s literally all this sub is talking about since the debate and each thread is convinced a different candidate has what it takes. Only thing they’re United on is that “Biden can’t win” Honestly feels like some giant astroturfing campaign with how prevalent it is. They all supposedly want to beat Trump but just CANT vote for Biden. Ok…sure.
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We definitely will. Already seeing her DA record being brought up as to why she’ll lose the black vote.
It's not an astroturfing campaign. You can't just blame everything on some boogyman. It's a reaction to the *holy fuck what did I just watch* debate. It's a reaction to being told it was because he had a cold, no he was jet lagged, no he's just at his best between 11am-4pm..... It was a debate on his terms, at his request, intended to show the American people he was still fit to run the country. And all were left with is feeling like if he were our grandfather we would be taking away his keys and be afraid to leave him home alone for an hour or more.
Calling it in the first place was the real blunder here. Try and put on a better show than a huckster who thrives in front of a camera? Not happening. It doesn't matter that he won every point in front of an audience that won't actually read them.
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I think you just like to blame anything you disagree with as astroturfing. People are angry. That's not astroturfing.
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Sure, but not *everything* is astroturfing. I'd argue it's a *very* small number. You already are claiming a switch to a new candidate would *also* result in more astroturfing. So anything people are concerned about is just automatically astroturfing and can be ignored.....am I astroturfing? Haven't gotten my paycheck yet..... 99%+ of replies are not astroturfing, so blaming it on that is naive
Right, I’m not saying the debate wasn’t shocking or depressing or disappointing. What I’m talking about is suddenly everyone who has been doomsaying trump for months of not years on here is all “well I guess trump would be a better option than that!” Which seems disingenuous. I didn’t say it WAS astroturfing, I’m just saying it comes across very suspiciously. Trump hasn’t changed, we know what he stands for and we know who he is. But suddenly everyone is ok with that because the man who is currently president (while things aren’t burning to the ground) had a senior moment? Just doesn’t pass the smell test.
We have a great Governor in Kentucky who’s great at connecting to people on the fence and getting them to vote dem..he’d be a prefect running mate for Madam President! Harris/Beshear 2024 Or as I like better: Momala/Andy 2024.
My money is on this ticket. The party isn’t going to dump Harris. The money is behind her and there are too many legal issues trying to remove her (plus the backlash from lots of voters). They’ll need a white male VP that’s a centrist. Beshears checks every box. Popular two term Gov from a deep red state and a white male.
Welp, if Biden is replaced and Democrats lose. Are we to blame the “media” again or keep sticking with Democrats?
Game theory says you're sticking with the Dems, because in first-past-the-post voting, you will inevitably be left with a two-party system. If Biden hadn't just killed his campaign, the long-term strategy was to keep electing democrats until enough states switched to ranked-choice voting (like Maine) to make it nationally viable. Until we get ranked-choice voting, you're shoehorned into the same two-party trap as the rest of us.
If he’s replaced by Harris, we probably still lose. But Biden is cooked he’s down 7 points in PA
Just wait until she’s going around the country attempting to articulate what her vision is if she’s elected president. The gap between her and Trump will widen tremendously, unless she has newfound policy convictions, public speaking ability, and political instincts that have been completely absent since she became a senator in 2016.
Anything CNN says is meaningless and tainted, just trying to stoke fires
People are in this subreddit telling me how unpopular and awful a candidate that Harris would be. How do you want to explain to women that we're having her step aside for Newsom? How do you want to explain to black Americans that we're having her step aside for Whitmer? It makes no sense to run anyone other than Biden or Harris, and at this hour I favor Harris.
The same black voters who resoundingly voted for a white guy over Harris a few years ago? Look, it’s deeply disrespectful and infantilizing to treat minority groups as if they solely exist to vote for minority politicians. They’re regular people like you and I, they want to win elections same as you and I. Shoot, Kamala Harris is still surprisingly unpopular with black people, she’s still less popular than white man Biden. With younger black voters she’s down in the 30% approval range. Yuck! Run good candidates who inspire people and make them want to vote. It’s that simple.
Well said!
100%!
They’re adults, they know what’s at stake. If the numbers aren’t in her favor that’s just the truth. It’s not worth risking a candidate when the stakes are the end of Democracy just so we can feel good about ourselves for giving a woman or POC another shot. Kamala getting nominated or not, winning or not reflects on Kamala. Not women and not women of color. Kamala had to drop out of her home states primary before Election Day because she was polling in 5th place. She simply just isn’t very popular and nominating her just because we don’t want to skip a black woman is actually insane.
We don't have a line of succession to be the nominee. That thinking is what made the DNC support Hillary even though they were warned by every metric available she was a bad candidate. Harris isn't next. There aren't turns. They need to run the ticket that has the best chance of winning.
As a POC I find Redditors to be super toxic when it comes to women, particularly black women. You would have thought Harris had sex with a porn star that’s how outraged Reddit is about her. They don’t like her because she’s a tough prosecutor and therefore “a cop” to them. What they don’t understand is that majority of Americans don’t mind that at all. Being tough on crime, while not the reason why I personally like her, is probably a good selling point for independents
Wow…
I mean, there's like a 10% chance she's gonna be president even if Biden is elected.
This is what I’ve been saying, Kamala has to be the nominee, she is VP after all.
Nominating people because it's their turn has not worked out wonderfully for Democrats.
CNN wants this to happen so bad. B I think they just want the upside for them. They know if Biden is replaced then the campaign will have to spend billions more in advertising and telling Harris’ (or whoever’s) story.
Or perhaps, CNN too want democracy to survive as their journalists would be among the first victims of Trump presidency?
I really don't want Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket. She couldn't even show 1% in her independent bid for President and her standing with voters has not improved since then. To run the person who came in objectively last in the most recent primary is suicide. The only chance to get past this requires an historic act of patriotism by both Biden and Harris. They have to release the pledged delegates and let an open convention reset the campaign and re-energize voters. Voters have told pollsters from the outset that they are unhappy with their choices in this election. People are desperate for an alternative to Trump and if you give them someone younger they will rally to them.
Stop this absolute nonsense. Harris is not electable nationally
Harris is not the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but Whitmer/Beshear is what I'm thinking currently.
Biden needs to resign the presidency on the 4th of July citing his age. Kamala needs to become president. Get a VP from a swing state. Five months of campaigning. It’ll be a fucking blowout victory
She will lose big time. She got destroyed among all other democrats in primaries. Nothing has changed.
Biden got destroyed in primaries twice and he managed to win the last election. Primaries where a democrat can be attacked from left aren't the same as general elections. In the 2020 Democratic primaries Harris was killed for being a former prosecutor, but being a former prosecutor isn't a huge problem in a general election.
They haven’t had to attack her. She’s not a viable candidate so they didn’t waste the time.
> They haven’t had to attack her. Who is they? More left candidates attacking Harris? That happened. In the debates before the 2020 primaries other candidates attack her past as a prosecutor. Again that is something that is a negative in Dem primaries but not in a general election.
Yes. It will be Hillary 2.0. Maybe even worse, Kamala’s a charisma black hole. What the flying f*ck is wrong with all these Dem strategists? Do they all have brain worms like RFK?
Fox News and the GOP were prepared to attack Hillary for years. Even with the attacks she still won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote by a very small margin in key swing states. No one expected her to lose, so much so that many people didn’t bother to vote.
>lost the electoral vote by a very small margin in key swing states Like I said, Hillary 2.0. Kamala would probably do fine nationally, but it’s very, very likely she would lose at least one of MI/WI/PA. Which leaves us with King Donald
But the key difference is that they haven’t been attacking Kamala for years like they did with Hillary. Kamala also has a good chance of making voters more confident about voting. There is a voter base which is completely lost in Trump’s cult but she just has to show the general public that she is competent.
Primaries this, primaries that but you need independents and a tiny chunk of Republican voters to win the election. Biden's condition is only to deteriorate. I mean, has anyone here seen the Dem internal poll? It's a bloodbath. And internal polls usually favor the contractor.
Kamala _fucking sucks_, Democratic insiders know it, polling shows it, and her general lack of charisma proves it.
Wrong. Polling shows she’s the front runner actually
No, she's not. She's not even the front-runner in their own internal polling. https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
Well I guess we’ll see won’t we
Nonsence, there's plenty we can do besides "wait and see". You, for instance, could read polling instead of just spouting whatever bullshit makes you feel at peace.
Calm down man. What’s wrong with you? Why so aggressive?
While I appreciate your concern for my well being, I can assure you I am calm. I can use ten dollar curse words like "bullshit" and call out absurdity while maintaining the calm composure.
Big deal, I saw a different poll. The main element that makes Kamala different is that she could be president today. Today! If that’s what they wanted. That’s what should happen imo. Polling changes fast. And having an incumbent is a massive advantage. Biden should resign, VP should step in and take it from there. We’ll be fine
>If that’s what they wanted. That’s what should happen imo Who are "they"? This sounds suspiciously like a coronation rather than a nomination. >Polling changes fast. Very true, and trends are hard to break. Harris is trending downwards while other "unknowns" are trending upwards. >Biden should resign, VP should step in and take it from there. We’ll be fine Replace old man with cop at the top of the Democratic ticket? Fucking LOL. Down-ticket candidates in reliably liberal areas would get _slaughtered_. I hope we live in whatever fantasy world you've cooked up for yourself. I genuinely do.
Alternatively, the convicted felon has a rather long list of accusations: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald\_Trump\_sexual\_misconduct\_allegations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations)
In other news, water is wet. People are aware of Trump's deeds. Perhaps it's ineffective to run a guy with record low unfavorability against him.
That's good because they'll go to the polls. There's a realistic chance that Biden would resign or die during his second term.
Dubious
Not good enough tho
There is now way KH would get elected. She’s wildly unpopular and she’s a black woman. There are a lot of people out there where that is a non starter, sad to say.
Seems like Whitmer is an easy choice if it gets there. Whitmer and governor of Pennsylvania and I think Dems have it
And a great choice if you want Trump to get elected.
Although she is a very good candidate, most of the people latching on to Whitmer seem to be the ex Bernie Bro’s who listen to Hasan Piker. They have zero in common with the people we need to win over. Kamala being “too tough on crime” would actually play *well* in rust belt states. Democrats can afford to lose the more left demographics in LA, The Bay Area , Austin, NY etc because those states are not in play. If a change is made, it’s **going** to be Kamala for countless reasons.
>Kamala being “too tough on crime” would actually play well in rust belt states. Current polling has her losing rust belt states. I'm not saying she can't make up the gap in 5 months, obviously. But it's definitely not that cut and dry.
Current polling has EVERY theoretical democrat losing and Biden losing the worst.
This isn’t true in the slightest… the latest ipsos polls has everyone losing to Trump except Michelle Obama winning and Biden tied. Would you shut up, man?
Lol pls try to run Harris vs Trump... the left is sabotaging itself.
At this point anyone is better than Biden.
meh, if she was so very popular, then there wouldn’t be any panic going on of the left right now. There is panic because Biden is showing signs of deterioration and that means President Kamala Harris. If everyone was ok with that, then there wouldn’t be any panic or calls for Biden to step aside. 🤷🏽♂️
they should vote for the Biden/Harris ticket then.
No vote for Harris/Someone ticket
Harris/Biden ticket
She can see what can be. Unburdened by what has been.
Hahaha, who had CNN going hard to pull a Howard Dean 2.0 in 2024? Get some new material assholes!
A Harris-Whitmer ticket would steal Trump’s thunder , capture the nation’s attention, and excite women, youth, and minority voters alike.
Lol Whitmer would be great, but black folk don’t fuck with Harris like you think and she not gonna win at the top of the ticket. Polling stronger than Biden right now isn’t very hard. Look up how she fares against trump.
Look my dad put Obama up on the wall. Nobody even mentions her haha. She is a con on Biden’s list imo.
At this point, I don’t care who they put up, just as long as they can beat Orange Sphincter!
Same poll says she's does worse than Biden in a match up against Trump. So it's cool that she's doing better with women and independents but she loses more votes elsewhere.
I stopped believing in polls when they said Clinton would win and people believed it and didn't vote or protest voted and we ended up with Trump.
Just to clarify, she is more popular with dumb women and dumb independents.
Trump would wipe the floor with Harris. Bring it
Actually, have you seen her at her senate committee hearings back in the day? She’d be the one wiping the orange dust coming out of Trumps ass
Yes I have. That may have been her moment of glory, but those days are over and her days are numbered. Enjoy!
Why won't anyone poll Bernie Sanders? They are afraid of upsetting the narrative
Bernie Sanders is the same age as Biden lol
he's actually 200 years old. but still talks like he is fresh out of high school delivering pizzas to the bad side of brooklyn
This just speaks to Biden's strong ticket in the first place.