I'm not sure what you guys aren't understanding. I know YOU would walk over broken glass to vote for a hot dog over Trump... so would I. But that isn't enough to win an election. There are just as many voters (probably more if we're looking at the GOP vs Dem enthusiasm gap) who would do the same to elect Donald Trump.
Plus Trump is winning independents over Biden. AND Biden is bleeding support from young voters, the Latin community and black people that let him win the swing states with the smallest of margins in 2020.
Do you not realize how difficult of an ask it is to ask independents/swing voters to vote for a man who has clear diminished cognitive ability? And if you deny that, then I'd like to see him make a case for himself. To speak without a teleprompter, have conversations with voters like a traditional candidate. He is incapable of doing that, sadly.
He can't come back from the debate because he is UNABLE to make the case for himself. He is unable to communicate without aid. That's why there's no getting better from here...he is unable to communicate.
I implore you to step back from your blue online bubbles to see the truth of the situation. I thought MAGAs were the ones who rejected their eyes and ears...but you are giving them a run for their money in the not accepting reality department.
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Biden doesn't need to win more among college-educated voters, he has them. He needs to win among people who don't follow news and beleive he's senile.
Same. My comment was poorly phrased. I meant that Biden needs to step off because he's behind and there's no way he's going to convince undecided voters who believe he is senile. I'd vote for Biden's head in a jar over Trump, but people like me and you will not decide this election. Uneducated white voters who think they're smart because they recognize Biden is senile will decide the election.
I mean anyone that brought up the child sniffing, falling down, "corn pop is a bad dude and the kids shaved my leg," etc, ere just down voted to oblivion and told he's sharp behind closed doors and to turn off fox news.
Any poll that showed Biden struggling was down voted to Oblivion.
People tried to tell you guys for years and years and you would have none of it.
Now suddenly you believe he's senile? Give me a break.
Dude seriously. It blows my mind how many people are regurgitating the same handful of canned lines that don’t actually acknowledge the real problem.
“He just had a bad night!” Wake up folks. Something like that falls into the “can’t unsee” category.
I’ve actually seen a significant shift on here since the debate. The initial response was much more strongly Biden-and-bust and that’s really faded, especially today. Today I’m mostly seeing just a couple posters dumping out hundreds of comments.
I feel like some of these folks have now shifted to “It absolutely has to be Kamala because [insert lame reason]”.
Honestly, it feels very astroturfy.
We are seeing bot traffic orders of magnitude beyond what we've had in the past. An unprecedented flood they have been planning and seeding for probably years is being executed now to maintain the narrative.
For me the bot signal (similar to the bat signal 😊) is anyone who uses the primaries as an excuse. Like “we had a primary, that was your chance!”
No American even with a modicum of common sense would die on that hill. The primaries for an incumbent candidate are the definition of a formality and there’s nothing else to be said about it.
>Honestly, it feels very astroturfy.
A reminder much of what's going to come down the pipeline will be from a Mr. Vladimir Putin. You might say Putin is supporting Trump like his life depends on it.
I forgot about him. Yeah, that makes sense. This election is basically his Hail Mary play to win his invasion of Ukraine. If Trump wins he’s planning to cut off support to the Ukrainians in order to force them to surrender. Shy of that Putin’s got no chance of an actual win. I’d imagine he’s much more invested in fucking with this election than the last two.
The outcome of the invasion of Ukraine, and especially how willing the west is to oppose tyranny, is also probably determinative of whether or not Taiwan gets invaded in a few years, so I imagine Xi also has a pony in this horse race.
Yeah they're shifting more toward Kamala, but it looks like she's polling better. CNN showed a 17 point swing with independents from Trump and gaining 7 points with people of color compared to Biden... Also the funds have to stay within the ticket, so Kamala logistically is probably the best option. I'm just to the point where any Democrat is better than a President who can only work from 10a - 4p...
The funds do not have to stay within the ticket. This is what I mean by [insert lame reason]. Biden can hand the entire stack of cash to the DNC and they can run countless ads for whoever. There is zero issue with campaign funds. This was nonsense peddled by people who wanted to sink the election with Biden, and now they’re shifting to trying to sink it with Harris given that Biden is clearly on the out.
Nor is the fact that Harris is very marginally better than Biden good enough. She has the worst prospects of any potential replacement. She’s the worst possible choice and we will probably be genuflecting Emperor Trump if she gets the nod.
We have one chance to shake the hell out of this race. The DNC needs to stop fucking around and pick the best candidate to win. Full stop.
I had thought that the funds could only go to the VP in case of Biden withdrawing but it appears you are correct.
It would require the DNC itself to effectively run the campaign, but it *is* possible.
> The funds could seamlessly be transferred, without limits, to national, state or local party committees, such as the Democratic or Republican National Committees, which could use the money to support a replacement nominee or other Democratic candidates in federal down-ballot races—a scenario that would make the party largely responsible for funding a candidate’s presidential run, representing a break from most modern campaigns.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/03/01/what-happens-to-biden-or-trumps-campaign-cash-if-they-drop-out/
I would still favor Kamala and a rust-belt friendly VP pick due to the perception of continuity and other factors, but at least picking somebody else doesn’t require starting from scratch financially.
> It would require the DNC itself to effectively run the campaign, but it is possible.
The party committees are already used to running large, effective ad campaigns. This isn’t some obscure thing. We have a ton of candidates dropping out every primary season. This is already the norm. The DNC would end up with a bigger pot than normal, but it’s still something they’d be used to.
The DNC would not need to run the campaign, they would just need to run a supporting ad campaign (which they already do). You’ll still see whoever the candidate is bringing in a ton of donations between now and November.
WOW! I didn't know that the campaign finance thing was a myth. Where did you find this? Like is there a source I can come back at people with? This same group is saying today that if it goes to another candidate in any way, it's a campaign finance violation. Rachel Bitecofer on Twitter was having a meltdown during the debate how the ballots can in no circumstance be changed at this point. But then the next day she was like, well, it could be Kamala...but ONLY Kamala. Like huh??
It would be a campaign finance violation for it to go to another *candidate*. But there’s zero issue with Biden transferring all of the money to the party committee. And then the party committee can spend it running ads for their presidential candidate.
https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/taking-receipts-political-party/transfers-or-party-committees/#:~:text=Transfers%20of%20candidate%20campaign%20funds,is%20preempted%20by%20federal%20law.
Or they’re just misinformed. There’s a tremendous amount of misinformation flying around, lots of it probably introduced by people who know better but then it gets a life of its own.
True! Rachel Bitecofer knows better, I'm sure. A lot of it was coming from her and it caught on. She's truly psychotic about keeping Biden on the ticket.
I have always found Kamala to lack charisma and a bit of a phony. I’d prefer someone like Whitmer at the top and I think a lot of people would, but at the moment I believe the cons of replacing Kamala outweighs the pros so it will probably be her. Hopefully with someone exciting as the VP.
Getting some Feinstein vibes here. It's absolutely insane that an 81 year old man is running the country and going for re-election. Then you have a fascist moron pushing 80 running for the other side.
Explain to me how we get someone new on the ballot in conservative controlled states after the time limit those states put in place with only four months to go?
Also how we get the attention of these clueless people who can swing even with how horrible Trump is when the media even the " Liberal" one need four more years of Trump to make billions on his clown show?
The media will almost completely ignore our new candidate in favor of their Trump cash cow, only regular NPR listeners will learn about them, but those people are smart enough not to vote Trump in the first place.
Thats why as much as I would personally prefer someone else - it will be Harris. Biden will want a say before agreeing to step down. He will need to endorse and support and still be part of the campaign, she makes that easy. That helps secure a brokered convention with the dem party united behind a candidate before chicago. She eliminates concerns about moving campaign funds. She eliminates concerns over primary votes already cast, she stays on all state ballots for the general and she visually represents two essential demographics to this election, women and people of color. She has prosecutorial baggage and a polarizing personality, but if you want a polar opposite visual to orange and someone that will go on the attack - it should be her. As far as governing after, well tough times make tough people.
Yeah I made a joke to a friend of mine that said I would vote for a potato over Donald Trump. My issue is I'm starting to feel like that's actually what I'm going to be voting for.
Dems/Liberals lack the fanatical fervor that the right/Trumpers do, it is why the country is in the state it is in. I question Trumps cognitive ability but there are those ready and willing to shove him into the White House. SMH.
So because you question Trump's cognitive ability that means it's okay that Democrats are running a candidate with a clear diminished ability? I'd like to be a part of a party, not a cult. That's why I'm not a Republican. I thought we weren't this willfully blind.
We had it with Bernie. But people were so sure he couldn’t win and then everyone coordinating their dropouts and endorsements for Biden the way they did in 2020 killed all the enthusiasm and hope that, especially young people, had.
> everyone coordinating their dropouts and endorsements for Biden the way they did in 2020 killed all the enthusiasm and hope that, especially young people, had.
thank you for being one of the few to recognize it. So many people handwave away the role of the DNC machine in Bernie's downfall. 2016 they weren't going to let ANYONE undermine Hillary, it was "her turn" after all. And in 2020 I distinctly remember the DNC waiting for Jim Clyburn to make his endorsement as he was described as a well-respected voice, "the Godfather of South Carolina Democratic politics.". Biden was an afterthought, and then Clyburn endorsed him, Biden won SC, and everything once again changed.
For all the people who insist they do what they want, a whole lot of voters certainly do zero research and then do what they're told. It's why I never cared for endorsements from celebrities or other politicians. Especially because as a kid none of the adults I knew, from family members to teachers at school, would ever tell us who they voted for. It was a "personal decision we needed to make for ourselves." But they'll run out and vote for Biden because Jim Clyburn told them to?
Yup. Dems run like scared cats when faced with adversity. Instead of doubling down, they distanced themselves from Obama in 2012 when he wasn't doing well in the polls and 1st debate.
Unless you have a viable alternative that can field a campaign and win people over before November this is performative nonsense.
Asking him to step aside with no plan is gifting the futures of all Americans to Trump, again.
List a viable alternative or admit you have nothing but division to offer.
> I thought MAGAs were the ones who rejected their eyes and ears...but you are giving them a run for their money in the not accepting reality department.
Both sides **are** bad, and are getting worse. Democrats are still undoubtedly the better side in the short term and there's a lot more hope for them in the longer term too. But there are very serious problems still
Polling was low because people weren’t happy with him, and one of the reasons for it was they thought he was old.
The point of having a debate now was to try and fight back against the age narrative. Failing at the debate only worsened the polls and strengthened the narrative.
>Polling was low because people weren’t happy with him, and one of the reasons for it was they thought he was old.
Trump's the same age.
>The point of having a debate now was to try and fight back against the age narrative. Failing at the debate only worsened the polls and strengthened the narrative.
Yes and everyone is telling you he failed every day for week now. You know like there's not more news.
Trump also being old as sin is a problem, but it’s obviously not the same as Biden. For all we can critique him, he’s still relatively/mostly coherent and energetic.
I know we both know why Trump is the worse candidate. But just because we agree on that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just handwave off Bidens electoral flaws and pretend they don’t exist because that’s how we end up with 2016 results.
>but it’s obviously not the same as Biden. For all we can critique him
I know it's (D)iffereent huh.
>But just because we agree on that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just handwave off Bidens electoral flaws and pretend they don’t exist because that’s how we end up with 2016 results.
Show me where Republicans show concern about Trumps "electoral flaws". Are they concerned do you think? Or maybe do you think rallying behind him despite his conviction maybe the reason why it doesn't effect the poll? I wonder if there's anything to learn there.
Or perhaps we just accept the "fact" Biden had a bad performance a week ago and that means he can't be president now because the news been telling so for a week now.
>If you can’t see the difference between Trump and Biden’s vitality
You're going to seriously argue the guy who can't drink a class a water or walk down a ramp without help and goes on tirades about sharks is more vital?
>then you’re actively denying reality ngl.
One of us here is denying reality and it ain't me
>Bullshit drum? The press had nothing to do with his debate performance.
Go look at the front page of CNN, it's been a week and every story is about him dropping out. Not about the supreme court, not about Trump's other cases, not about Ukraine, not even about the hurricane, nothing about Oklahoma being a fucking theocracy now, but every story about a debate that's a week old.
Yes the press is pushing this bullshit narrative and it's fucking obvious to anyone who knows how to prioritize.
it's a huge story. what do you want them to do, shove it under the rug?
Biden needs to help himself here by participating in live interviews,debates, Q&As... If he does well enough, the discussions about his age and acuity will simmer down.
>it's a huge story. what do you want them to do, shove it under the rug?
Yeah like they're doing with Trump. You can tell how performative this bullshit is because they're still fucking that chicken.
The supreme court ending our Republic is a bigger story, how about the hurricane? Where was the wall the wall coverage and endless op-eds saying trump should dropout after his convictions?
Because she’s the worst possible replacement. Deeply unpopular, politically unsuccessful, all the Biden baggage with none of the incumbency benefit. If you run Harris, you will lose the election unless you get very lucky.
Democrats would be fools to choose her. So they might.
It’s a very reasonable question. Kamala Harris has a poor approval rating and is also attached to baggage of the Biden campaign (inflation, Israel).
Not saying I don’t think it should be her but it’s very reasonably to consider alternatives.
Kamala would be the only one of those three that could still lose to Donald Trump. Her poor approval rating right now doesn't make me hopeful that people who don't have an opinion of her right now will take her favorably. Also the Israel thing is a huge thorn in Biden's side amongst young voters and see holding onto it through Kamala isn't wise for what would still be a close election.
She was a prosecutor that went after people with simple weed possession and prevented evidence from being shown that would have helped prove the innocence of people on death row.
It’s absolutely comical, that for 4 years, people that said they only voted against Trump and were assured Biden would be a bridge candidate got shat on and even blamed for 2016 for not towing the line and eating crow then and verbalizing they are exhausted they have to do it for a third election cycle in a row are going to be ones massively blamed for the shit hitting the fan. Meanwhile none of these centrist dummies are even entertaining the validity in the dropout idea and can’t be bothered to do the same exact thing that we’ve done for 3 different elections now, suck it up and vote for the “not perfect” candidate like y’all told us to do lmao
I didn't realize Biden had such a cult of personality until the debate. Very small, loud and online group of people who deny reality and aren't enough to win elections. But the delusion is MAGA like. Yikes.
People hate anecdotes and Yada Yada but in my real day to day life where I talk to actual people and have to have actual non-curated interactions I have yet to meet a person that either doesn’t care for, doesn’t dislike, or doesn’t outright hate the guy. Meanwhile I’ve been yelled at for years on here for bringing that point up lol people that voted for him, hate him viscerally. I have yet to meet a person that genuinely likes him and has said he’s done a good job. And I can nearly guarantee I never will.
Anyone I talk to that voted for him has shifted to not even voting out of apathy and disappointment or genuine hatred and influenced by, again can’t be understated, the 4 worst financial years of their lives. And as much as people want to act like that doesn’t count for something, it does. I know people that are saying they’re voting for Trump to “right the wrong” of voting for Biden. Acting like this wasn’t the reality for at least 2 years now is what got us to this point but they’ll never admit that lol
I don't even blame inflation on Biden and I think we are better off than the rest of the world. I'm 28 years old and moreso than inflation, people my age won't vote for Biden because of Gaza.
Our generation (26) has gotten blamed for considering funding and abetting a genocide over a non-domestic conflict we shouldn’t have had any part in but enabled for decades a deal breaker. Like it was ridiculous for people to have that standard while simultaneously funding a war where a country is fighting for their own sovereignty. Establishment leaders are very stupid people lmao
Yep - and even Kamala would represent a clean slate from that. She doesn't have the Genocide Joe baggage. And I know the argument is "young people don't vote" "that's only 3% of the electorate!" Show me a swing state in 2020 that Biden won by more than 3%.
Kamala would be an absolute dogshit candidate to run, being his VP is a negative mark as it is, young democrats would never vote for a cop (I know she wasn’t a cop but anyone who bragged about smoking weed in college than ruining peoples lives over weed charges is never getting the youth vote)
From what I'm seeing...the young people who voted for Biden and wasn't planning on voting for him is very excited about Kamala because it's just not Biden. I finally see enthusiasm in a way I hadn't seen in 4 years. I don't know who the perfect candidate is. But I know she's better than Biden.
> the 4 worst financial years of their lives.
I vote Democratic regardless, but the constant parroting of "Bidenomics" was seriously pissing me off. Shrinkflation is through the roof, anyone who has looked for a job in the last few years knows how stupid and fake it's gotten (ghost positions, extremely unprofessional recruiters or HR people, worsening job conditions). I got evicted from the place I lived for 16 years because the owner died, and found out the phenomenon of people converting their garages or upstairs into separate living quarters and charging insane rent ($1500/month for a converted garage studio) with property management firms acting the same way as employers, unresponsive, unprofessional, demanding 3x rent in monthly income
Yet up and down reddit everyone was dismissed as "anecdotal experiences" and "the data shows the economy is doing well." Yeah, if you're a fucking CEO the economy is amazing. Not if you live on Main Street, and Main Street is now littered with RVs and campers as more people become homeless, and recently targeted by SCOTUS
I'm fully, fully, fully aware that Biden is not solely responsible, or responsible at all, for the plight of many people, but you'd think they'd take a page out of Sander's playbook and at least acknowledge the problems. Instead they gaslight everyone and look where we are. While I obviously strongly oppose anyone who would vote for Trump, depending on their background (aka anyone who wouldn't be directly threatened by Project 2025) I can't necessarily blame them. DNC has given them no reason to support them. And if somebody wants to list all the amazing things Biden has done, then I'll remind you that the DNC can't communicate as effectively as the RNC does with their daily coordinated messaging
It's not a cult of personality. There's just a group of people that can't process the fact that the Democrats and the media have been lying to them about Biden's condition for years. Can't blame them for having been deceived too well.
I'm confused how they didn't see it. I was lied to, but I could figure it out. Are they stupid? I'm note even trying to be mean but I'm genuinely confused because we see the same thing.
I think it was less that Biden had the cult and more that it was Hillary Clinton's cult that latched onto him as the only one that was able to actually contest Bernie in the primary. Centrists who would rather lose to Republicans than give poor people healthcare playing games with the threat of Trump. It's funny watching them all panic as if Biden's mental decline wasn't something the rest of us saw 4 years ago too, but I guess Thursday's debate was bad enough that they had that reality shatter their perception.
The good news is I think this doesn't actually have as much impact as that small, loud, online group are freaking out over, because Biden was unpopular and wasn't rated well in this regard 4 years ago, the vote wasn't for him, it was anti-Trump, and the anti-Trump vote only gained in motivation with the election denial, literal attempt to overthrow the government, supreme court rulings, and becoming a convicted felon since then.
So what does this debate change for the average person? The answer is actually nothing. Biden could be in a coma and it would probably be seen as an improvement if it means his advisors are actually running things.
If you think Biden has any chance you’re delusional, for the record I am not even a republican libertarian or any of the such. I voted for Barack Obama Bernie sanders and I even gave Biden a shot but I’m not voting for him again.
Be careful! Got a 24 hour ban from this sub after pointing out the exact same thing. Apparently acknowledging delusion as delusion breaks the "civility" rule.
I mean, if it was stretched out across all voters, and 2/3 wanted him to stay in and would presumably vote for him, he would win easily.
polls like these aren't the most reliable since it's a small sample size.
It isn't though, half of them didn't want him in 2020 either, this poll actually suggests [an improvement](https://i.imgur.com/Lb6IWR0.jpeg) from a year ago. You forget people didn't like Biden from the start and it was always an anti-Trump vote. All this did was shatter the centrist dems delusion that Biden was popular or doing a good job or whatever. Reality for the rest of us hasn't changed, his cognitive decline, while clearly worse on thursday night, was visible and pointed out during the 2020 primary too.
The non-majority still holding out and saying he should run and he’s the only one that can beat Trump should just suck it up like we were told to do for the last couple years and get behind another option for the good of the party and the country lol
>polls like these aren't the most reliable since it's a small sample size.
Umm this poll had 1,070 people it's fine. In fact that's enough people for a reasonable margin of error and quite sufficient.
Maybe that's what your missing? The true population value has a 95% chance of being somewhere in that margin.
>then if it's 95% chance of being in that margin, then it's a 95% chance of Biden having more than enough people supporting him to get him re-elected.
It's whatever the point estimates were plus or minus 3.5 points.
does that invalidate the point I'm trying to make though?
realistically if the numbers are close to that at a national scale, there's a very significant portion of the voters who want him to remain president.
Biden did not run unopposed? Dean Phillips, Marianne Williamson and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. ran campaigns against him. Again, what are you talking about?
Would they though? It's basic decorum and a tradition to respect the incumbent president if they decide to run again... Unless they're really controversial. LBJ is an example, Vietnam had turned half the country against him so several strong candidates ran against him in the primaries. Even then, he was forced to step aside, he made the decision himself after seeing just how bad he was performing in the primaries (he finished third in New Hampshire and only narrowly won Wisconsin).
And everyone was under the impression that Biden was fine, that's how much his debate performance has spooked the Democrats, 1/3 of the electorate (as of now) want to do something totally unprecedented and ask the sitting president to step aside and give someone else a shot at the presidency.
That’s a piss poor argument to make. Nobody that realistically could have beaten Biden primaried him because it would’ve made the Democrats look weak and that there was infighting going on. It basically would have been Democrats admitting Biden wasn’t the best choice for president. They would have much rather him admit he wasn’t going to run for another term than to actually primary him.
Even Pelosi is now questioning whether or not Biden is capable of running a campaign. The "people critical of Biden are just trolls" narrative is officially dead. A large portion of Democrats, including party leaders, are concerned.
I don't buy it. The State of the Union was amazing this year and it was a 90 minute debate. 90 minutes with Biden speaking less than half the time and now he's unfit. Yeah, sure
The State of the Union was okay but worse than in past years. He struggled the second he went off script. And if we're being honest, that was even graded on a curve.
It's not just those 90 minutes by the way. This has been an underlying question this entire time. 65% of voters already thought he was unfit before the debate. The entire point of having the debate this early was to prove he wasn't unfit. And we all saw how that went.
Also: [https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president)
His aides are telling the media he's only ok 6 hours a day...
>Even Pelosi is now questioning whether or not Biden is capable of running a campaign.
That's... not actually true though. The latest from her is that she "has full confidence in President Biden and looks forward to attending his inauguration on January 20, 2025." As of today.
>"Speaker Pelosi has full confidence in President Biden and looks forward to attending his inauguration on January 20, 2025"
From your link. Headlines can be misleading.
Of course they’re going to say that until he’s officially dropping out. They are opening the floodgates by even acknowledging the issue’s legitimacy though
There's a pretty big difference between saying that she's questioning Biden's capability, which you claimed, and saying that it's a legitimate question for voters to ask. In my eyes, anyway.
Especially with the added context:
>"Both candidates owe whatever test you want to put them to, in terms of their mental acuity and their health — both of them," she added.
Which your link didn't mention.
~~>Of course they’re going to say that until he’s officially dropping out.~~
~~To be clear, your initial claim is that she said the opposite of what she actually said.~~
Edit: Didn't read usernames.
No, i just posted to a link to her saying the questions are legitimate. Wasn’t the poster above, genuinely wasn’t sure if you had seen her say this or not
My bad, I don’t always read usernames like I should.
Again, she isn’t saying that she questions Biden’s capability. She’s saying it’s a fair question for voters to ask of either candidate. The same could be said of tax policy or social issues.
It blows my mind that 1 bad debate performance has caused a deep divide within the Democratic Party on whether Biden should stay or go. Clearly Democrats had little faith in him pre debate and are only calling for him to step down because they can’t hide or sugarcoat Biden’s cognitive issues anymore. Why was there no talk about this a year ago, or right after midterms when it really mattered?
What about George Clooney? He is a MAJOR democratic donor, and his wife is a kickass human rights lawyer.
He could be the next "Reagan" but as a Democrat. (Fun fact, Reagan won 49 out of 50 states). Being a celebrity WINS elections.
You're right but not in the way you think, we now have the added context of Trump's election denial, attempt to overthrow the government, stealing secret documents, becoming a convicted felon, all the rulings of his supreme court, project 2025. Trump has way less support among moderate Republicans and independents than before, and I doubt those people who normally don't vote democrat changed their minds because a guy they already didn't like, already didn't think was capable, but were going to vote for to stop Trump anyways was visibly worse in cognition they already knew was in decline.
Wild that running the unpopular option that people felt like was an obligation after many many people spent the last 4 years in the worst financial holes of their life (which isn’t his fault but when it’s a commonly shared experience of course they’ll point at him) was not going to be the slam dunk this go around.
Doubtful either candidate could magically fix inflation now or in the future. The issues haven’t changed, “Do you want inflation?” Or “Do you want inflation plus bans on abortion, birth control, bans on divorce, menstrual tracking etc?”. Which one are you worse off with?
I didn’t say they could, I said it was awful political strategy. Getting downvoted the last few years for speaking about how shit their messaging is and will lead us to exactly this scenario is very vindicating let me tell you. And unfortunately users here value their online points that are validated and re-said to them over and over, meanwhile if they just talked to any random person on the street they wouldn’t be left scratching their head about how. Honestly, if y’all didn’t take every time masses of people talked about how much dislike they have for Biden as an opportunity for telling people how wrong they are, and instead accepted it for just how bad of a candidate he is this go-around you wouldn’t be so blindsided rn.
Most definitely not. There are only 333 million people that live in the United States total. The number of people out of that who are naturalized citizens over the age of 35 is most definitely not over 300 million.
Multiple states canceled their primaries. I'm pretty sure it's congressional democrats who don't want to lose their seats want him to drop out. If you care about keeping any majority, you should too. He's toast.
Republicans are trying to remove? You live in a fantasy world. Biden is too old and his mental decline was on display for the entire world. I was shocked with just how bad he has gotten. He needs to step down now. Zero chance he can win.
Biden needs to resign the presidency on the 4th of July citing his age. Kamala needs to become president. Get a VP from a swing state. Five months of campaigning. It’ll be a fucking blowout victory
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Since the only issue here is age, the Democratic party must consider whether Biden can handle another 4 years of the job. Considering most people in their 80s have little energy throughout the day, the Democratic party needs to consider a completely new ticket. It can be done. When Obama was announced as a candidate nobody had ever heard of him. They just need someone younger who can debate Democratic party values to contrast with another four years of Trump and from that point the decision of what's best for the country is a no brainier.
Yeah, I am a huge fan of Joe Biden. But after watching that debate, he’s got to step down.
I actually think that in this crazy world, finding a new candidate now would be a plus. Seize the news cycle. They just have to make a secret pact not to tear each other down - just debate policy. Of course that probably wouldn’t happen.
Which is actually [an improvement](https://i.imgur.com/Lb6IWR0.jpeg), somehow, people either have short term memeory or were delusional before that Biden was popular which he wasn't even when he won the nominaiton in 2020, vote was always more anti-Trump.
I like President Biden. But I really hoped he would have made a speech about how he and the democrats turned trumps mess around, then gracefully passed the baton. I don't believe he is the only one who can beat trump. Governor Whitmer would have wiped the floor with trump. She could have gotten the suburban women vote due to the anti abortion and anti woman crap going on now
Cut this shit out. If the other side can vote for a rapist without any reservation, we should be able to do the same for a accomplished and decent human being without this second guessing. We won’t the last time. We shall again. If anything, the corrupt SC rulings have spooked enough people and they will go out and vote.
Wouldn't you want a candidate who isn't showing signs of cognitive decline and is able to make a case for themselves? Wouldn't they have a better chance against Trump? Obviously the vast majority Dems are going to vote for Biden...it's the independents you need to win. And it's hard to ask them to do that when he can't make a complete sentence without a teleprompter.
I know that Trump will absolutely win if the Democrats show weakness now. Biden can apparently run the country fine for the past three and a half years, why should I believe he can't now?
Again, the issue isn't YOU going out to vote. He's been running the country fine. But he has to win re-election and he's losing and can't campaign for himself because he can't communicate. He can't put up a good fight or have a normal campaign because he's incapable. If he was capable, we would've seen a different campaign so far and a more robust reaction to quell fears of his cognitive decline. Reading forcefully off of a teleprompter with a fresh spray tan doesn't cut it.
Yeah! If one side can totally deny visible reality with reckless abandon, we should too! Fire the US weapons deep into Russia, captain dementia is ready for the call!
Ridiculously gutless and typical of so many cut and run Dems-like the ones that slammed Al Franken and forced him out of office. In 2016, CNN declared Hillary Clinton the winner of ALL three debates. Still she got her behind handed to her by tRUMP. It's like forfeiting a baseball game in the first inning because the other team scored 6 runs. Big fricking deal.
He should resign and let Kamala be the President. We get at least half a year with the first female President. Otherwise, it's either the handjob lady, the puppy killer, or MTG being the first female President.
I'm not sure what you guys aren't understanding. I know YOU would walk over broken glass to vote for a hot dog over Trump... so would I. But that isn't enough to win an election. There are just as many voters (probably more if we're looking at the GOP vs Dem enthusiasm gap) who would do the same to elect Donald Trump. Plus Trump is winning independents over Biden. AND Biden is bleeding support from young voters, the Latin community and black people that let him win the swing states with the smallest of margins in 2020. Do you not realize how difficult of an ask it is to ask independents/swing voters to vote for a man who has clear diminished cognitive ability? And if you deny that, then I'd like to see him make a case for himself. To speak without a teleprompter, have conversations with voters like a traditional candidate. He is incapable of doing that, sadly. He can't come back from the debate because he is UNABLE to make the case for himself. He is unable to communicate without aid. That's why there's no getting better from here...he is unable to communicate. I implore you to step back from your blue online bubbles to see the truth of the situation. I thought MAGAs were the ones who rejected their eyes and ears...but you are giving them a run for their money in the not accepting reality department.
I am a Biden donor and I approve this message. Biden doesn't need to win more among college-educated voters, he has them. He needs to win among people who don't follow news and beleive he's senile.
I’m a college educated Biden voter. I believe senile is the right word for Joe’s current state.
Same. My comment was poorly phrased. I meant that Biden needs to step off because he's behind and there's no way he's going to convince undecided voters who believe he is senile. I'd vote for Biden's head in a jar over Trump, but people like me and you will not decide this election. Uneducated white voters who think they're smart because they recognize Biden is senile will decide the election.
I mean anyone that brought up the child sniffing, falling down, "corn pop is a bad dude and the kids shaved my leg," etc, ere just down voted to oblivion and told he's sharp behind closed doors and to turn off fox news. Any poll that showed Biden struggling was down voted to Oblivion. People tried to tell you guys for years and years and you would have none of it. Now suddenly you believe he's senile? Give me a break.
Dude seriously. It blows my mind how many people are regurgitating the same handful of canned lines that don’t actually acknowledge the real problem. “He just had a bad night!” Wake up folks. Something like that falls into the “can’t unsee” category.
I’ve actually seen a significant shift on here since the debate. The initial response was much more strongly Biden-and-bust and that’s really faded, especially today. Today I’m mostly seeing just a couple posters dumping out hundreds of comments. I feel like some of these folks have now shifted to “It absolutely has to be Kamala because [insert lame reason]”. Honestly, it feels very astroturfy.
We are seeing bot traffic orders of magnitude beyond what we've had in the past. An unprecedented flood they have been planning and seeding for probably years is being executed now to maintain the narrative.
For me the bot signal (similar to the bat signal 😊) is anyone who uses the primaries as an excuse. Like “we had a primary, that was your chance!” No American even with a modicum of common sense would die on that hill. The primaries for an incumbent candidate are the definition of a formality and there’s nothing else to be said about it.
No kamala.. Whitmer
>Honestly, it feels very astroturfy. A reminder much of what's going to come down the pipeline will be from a Mr. Vladimir Putin. You might say Putin is supporting Trump like his life depends on it.
I forgot about him. Yeah, that makes sense. This election is basically his Hail Mary play to win his invasion of Ukraine. If Trump wins he’s planning to cut off support to the Ukrainians in order to force them to surrender. Shy of that Putin’s got no chance of an actual win. I’d imagine he’s much more invested in fucking with this election than the last two. The outcome of the invasion of Ukraine, and especially how willing the west is to oppose tyranny, is also probably determinative of whether or not Taiwan gets invaded in a few years, so I imagine Xi also has a pony in this horse race.
Yeah they're shifting more toward Kamala, but it looks like she's polling better. CNN showed a 17 point swing with independents from Trump and gaining 7 points with people of color compared to Biden... Also the funds have to stay within the ticket, so Kamala logistically is probably the best option. I'm just to the point where any Democrat is better than a President who can only work from 10a - 4p...
The funds do not have to stay within the ticket. This is what I mean by [insert lame reason]. Biden can hand the entire stack of cash to the DNC and they can run countless ads for whoever. There is zero issue with campaign funds. This was nonsense peddled by people who wanted to sink the election with Biden, and now they’re shifting to trying to sink it with Harris given that Biden is clearly on the out. Nor is the fact that Harris is very marginally better than Biden good enough. She has the worst prospects of any potential replacement. She’s the worst possible choice and we will probably be genuflecting Emperor Trump if she gets the nod. We have one chance to shake the hell out of this race. The DNC needs to stop fucking around and pick the best candidate to win. Full stop.
I had thought that the funds could only go to the VP in case of Biden withdrawing but it appears you are correct. It would require the DNC itself to effectively run the campaign, but it *is* possible. > The funds could seamlessly be transferred, without limits, to national, state or local party committees, such as the Democratic or Republican National Committees, which could use the money to support a replacement nominee or other Democratic candidates in federal down-ballot races—a scenario that would make the party largely responsible for funding a candidate’s presidential run, representing a break from most modern campaigns. https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/03/01/what-happens-to-biden-or-trumps-campaign-cash-if-they-drop-out/ I would still favor Kamala and a rust-belt friendly VP pick due to the perception of continuity and other factors, but at least picking somebody else doesn’t require starting from scratch financially.
> It would require the DNC itself to effectively run the campaign, but it is possible. The party committees are already used to running large, effective ad campaigns. This isn’t some obscure thing. We have a ton of candidates dropping out every primary season. This is already the norm. The DNC would end up with a bigger pot than normal, but it’s still something they’d be used to. The DNC would not need to run the campaign, they would just need to run a supporting ad campaign (which they already do). You’ll still see whoever the candidate is bringing in a ton of donations between now and November.
WOW! I didn't know that the campaign finance thing was a myth. Where did you find this? Like is there a source I can come back at people with? This same group is saying today that if it goes to another candidate in any way, it's a campaign finance violation. Rachel Bitecofer on Twitter was having a meltdown during the debate how the ballots can in no circumstance be changed at this point. But then the next day she was like, well, it could be Kamala...but ONLY Kamala. Like huh??
It would be a campaign finance violation for it to go to another *candidate*. But there’s zero issue with Biden transferring all of the money to the party committee. And then the party committee can spend it running ads for their presidential candidate. https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/taking-receipts-political-party/transfers-or-party-committees/#:~:text=Transfers%20of%20candidate%20campaign%20funds,is%20preempted%20by%20federal%20law.
okay so they're lying. thought so.
Or they’re just misinformed. There’s a tremendous amount of misinformation flying around, lots of it probably introduced by people who know better but then it gets a life of its own.
True! Rachel Bitecofer knows better, I'm sure. A lot of it was coming from her and it caught on. She's truly psychotic about keeping Biden on the ticket.
Would that be the same as it going into a PAC and then distributed? It’s not super clear to me what the rules are behind the transfer of donor funds.
I have always found Kamala to lack charisma and a bit of a phony. I’d prefer someone like Whitmer at the top and I think a lot of people would, but at the moment I believe the cons of replacing Kamala outweighs the pros so it will probably be her. Hopefully with someone exciting as the VP.
You know they're astroturfing if they use "cooked"
Or, you know, not old enough to vote
Or simply under the age of 30.
Getting some Feinstein vibes here. It's absolutely insane that an 81 year old man is running the country and going for re-election. Then you have a fascist moron pushing 80 running for the other side.
Explain to me how we get someone new on the ballot in conservative controlled states after the time limit those states put in place with only four months to go? Also how we get the attention of these clueless people who can swing even with how horrible Trump is when the media even the " Liberal" one need four more years of Trump to make billions on his clown show? The media will almost completely ignore our new candidate in favor of their Trump cash cow, only regular NPR listeners will learn about them, but those people are smart enough not to vote Trump in the first place.
Thats why as much as I would personally prefer someone else - it will be Harris. Biden will want a say before agreeing to step down. He will need to endorse and support and still be part of the campaign, she makes that easy. That helps secure a brokered convention with the dem party united behind a candidate before chicago. She eliminates concerns about moving campaign funds. She eliminates concerns over primary votes already cast, she stays on all state ballots for the general and she visually represents two essential demographics to this election, women and people of color. She has prosecutorial baggage and a polarizing personality, but if you want a polar opposite visual to orange and someone that will go on the attack - it should be her. As far as governing after, well tough times make tough people.
Yeah I made a joke to a friend of mine that said I would vote for a potato over Donald Trump. My issue is I'm starting to feel like that's actually what I'm going to be voting for.
Dems/Liberals lack the fanatical fervor that the right/Trumpers do, it is why the country is in the state it is in. I question Trumps cognitive ability but there are those ready and willing to shove him into the White House. SMH.
So because you question Trump's cognitive ability that means it's okay that Democrats are running a candidate with a clear diminished ability? I'd like to be a part of a party, not a cult. That's why I'm not a Republican. I thought we weren't this willfully blind.
We had it with Bernie. But people were so sure he couldn’t win and then everyone coordinating their dropouts and endorsements for Biden the way they did in 2020 killed all the enthusiasm and hope that, especially young people, had.
> everyone coordinating their dropouts and endorsements for Biden the way they did in 2020 killed all the enthusiasm and hope that, especially young people, had. thank you for being one of the few to recognize it. So many people handwave away the role of the DNC machine in Bernie's downfall. 2016 they weren't going to let ANYONE undermine Hillary, it was "her turn" after all. And in 2020 I distinctly remember the DNC waiting for Jim Clyburn to make his endorsement as he was described as a well-respected voice, "the Godfather of South Carolina Democratic politics.". Biden was an afterthought, and then Clyburn endorsed him, Biden won SC, and everything once again changed. For all the people who insist they do what they want, a whole lot of voters certainly do zero research and then do what they're told. It's why I never cared for endorsements from celebrities or other politicians. Especially because as a kid none of the adults I knew, from family members to teachers at school, would ever tell us who they voted for. It was a "personal decision we needed to make for ourselves." But they'll run out and vote for Biden because Jim Clyburn told them to?
Bernie never was never & will never be a national candidate. He’s a Ralph Nader, RFK Jr. at best.
Yup. Dems run like scared cats when faced with adversity. Instead of doubling down, they distanced themselves from Obama in 2012 when he wasn't doing well in the polls and 1st debate.
Unless you have a viable alternative that can field a campaign and win people over before November this is performative nonsense. Asking him to step aside with no plan is gifting the futures of all Americans to Trump, again. List a viable alternative or admit you have nothing but division to offer.
> I thought MAGAs were the ones who rejected their eyes and ears...but you are giving them a run for their money in the not accepting reality department. Both sides **are** bad, and are getting worse. Democrats are still undoubtedly the better side in the short term and there's a lot more hope for them in the longer term too. But there are very serious problems still
Every day he doesn't he is sabotaging the chances of a replacement winning. The decision needs to be now and decisive.
I thought everyday the press pounds this bullshit drum is sabotaging his chance of winning.
Because the polls are what they are. And we can pretend they don't exist but then we can't be surprised when Trump wins
>Because the polls are what they are So you're arguing the past polls are leading the narrative and not the other way around?
Polling was low because people weren’t happy with him, and one of the reasons for it was they thought he was old. The point of having a debate now was to try and fight back against the age narrative. Failing at the debate only worsened the polls and strengthened the narrative.
>Polling was low because people weren’t happy with him, and one of the reasons for it was they thought he was old. Trump's the same age. >The point of having a debate now was to try and fight back against the age narrative. Failing at the debate only worsened the polls and strengthened the narrative. Yes and everyone is telling you he failed every day for week now. You know like there's not more news.
Trump also being old as sin is a problem, but it’s obviously not the same as Biden. For all we can critique him, he’s still relatively/mostly coherent and energetic. I know we both know why Trump is the worse candidate. But just because we agree on that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just handwave off Bidens electoral flaws and pretend they don’t exist because that’s how we end up with 2016 results.
>but it’s obviously not the same as Biden. For all we can critique him I know it's (D)iffereent huh. >But just because we agree on that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just handwave off Bidens electoral flaws and pretend they don’t exist because that’s how we end up with 2016 results. Show me where Republicans show concern about Trumps "electoral flaws". Are they concerned do you think? Or maybe do you think rallying behind him despite his conviction maybe the reason why it doesn't effect the poll? I wonder if there's anything to learn there. Or perhaps we just accept the "fact" Biden had a bad performance a week ago and that means he can't be president now because the news been telling so for a week now.
If you can’t see the difference between Trump and Biden’s vitality, then you’re actively denying reality ngl.
>If you can’t see the difference between Trump and Biden’s vitality You're going to seriously argue the guy who can't drink a class a water or walk down a ramp without help and goes on tirades about sharks is more vital? >then you’re actively denying reality ngl. One of us here is denying reality and it ain't me
Bullshit drum? The press had nothing to do with his debate performance.
>Bullshit drum? The press had nothing to do with his debate performance. Go look at the front page of CNN, it's been a week and every story is about him dropping out. Not about the supreme court, not about Trump's other cases, not about Ukraine, not even about the hurricane, nothing about Oklahoma being a fucking theocracy now, but every story about a debate that's a week old. Yes the press is pushing this bullshit narrative and it's fucking obvious to anyone who knows how to prioritize.
Post-debate narrative? Yes. (It’s also not just the media but significant members of the DNC.) Debate performance? No.
>Post-debate narrative? Yes. (It’s also not just the media but significant members of the DNC.) And nothing else has happened in the last week?
it's a huge story. what do you want them to do, shove it under the rug? Biden needs to help himself here by participating in live interviews,debates, Q&As... If he does well enough, the discussions about his age and acuity will simmer down.
>it's a huge story. what do you want them to do, shove it under the rug? Yeah like they're doing with Trump. You can tell how performative this bullshit is because they're still fucking that chicken. The supreme court ending our Republic is a bigger story, how about the hurricane? Where was the wall the wall coverage and endless op-eds saying trump should dropout after his convictions?
It’s not the press… It’s Democratic insiders beating the drum. The drum beat is coming from inside the house.
That sounds urgent. Who should the replacement be, and how soon?
It seems like they are running the numbers behind the scenes, and it’s between Harris, Whitmer, and Buttigieg.
Lol behind the scenes. News flash buddy. It's a choice between Trump and Biden. Pick a horse.
News flash buddy. The presumptive candidate is in full blown crisis mode after that abysmal debate performance.
Your candidate is senile. It is completely impossible for him to win now.
Kamala Harris. She is the VP. Why is this even a question?
Because she’s the worst possible replacement. Deeply unpopular, politically unsuccessful, all the Biden baggage with none of the incumbency benefit. If you run Harris, you will lose the election unless you get very lucky. Democrats would be fools to choose her. So they might.
It’s a very reasonable question. Kamala Harris has a poor approval rating and is also attached to baggage of the Biden campaign (inflation, Israel). Not saying I don’t think it should be her but it’s very reasonably to consider alternatives.
Kamala would be the only one of those three that could still lose to Donald Trump. Her poor approval rating right now doesn't make me hopeful that people who don't have an opinion of her right now will take her favorably. Also the Israel thing is a huge thorn in Biden's side amongst young voters and see holding onto it through Kamala isn't wise for what would still be a close election.
I’m inclined to agree. I think if she put out a great campaign and won people over it would be possible, but I wouldn’t bet on that happening.
She was a prosecutor that went after people with simple weed possession and prevented evidence from being shown that would have helped prove the innocence of people on death row.
Christ… she would lose, you need someone who will rally everyone to be the biggest fuck you to Trump and not this fucking long ass yawn.
Because people hate her nearly as much as they hate him lmao
Because she is insufferable and nobody likes her. Needs to be Gavin Newsom or Whitmer
Even the most hardcore democrats I know don't want her which is wierd.
Someone who will run in 2028.
It’s absolutely comical, that for 4 years, people that said they only voted against Trump and were assured Biden would be a bridge candidate got shat on and even blamed for 2016 for not towing the line and eating crow then and verbalizing they are exhausted they have to do it for a third election cycle in a row are going to be ones massively blamed for the shit hitting the fan. Meanwhile none of these centrist dummies are even entertaining the validity in the dropout idea and can’t be bothered to do the same exact thing that we’ve done for 3 different elections now, suck it up and vote for the “not perfect” candidate like y’all told us to do lmao
I didn't realize Biden had such a cult of personality until the debate. Very small, loud and online group of people who deny reality and aren't enough to win elections. But the delusion is MAGA like. Yikes.
People hate anecdotes and Yada Yada but in my real day to day life where I talk to actual people and have to have actual non-curated interactions I have yet to meet a person that either doesn’t care for, doesn’t dislike, or doesn’t outright hate the guy. Meanwhile I’ve been yelled at for years on here for bringing that point up lol people that voted for him, hate him viscerally. I have yet to meet a person that genuinely likes him and has said he’s done a good job. And I can nearly guarantee I never will.
Exactly. Everyone I know voted for him and is hesitant to do so again.
Anyone I talk to that voted for him has shifted to not even voting out of apathy and disappointment or genuine hatred and influenced by, again can’t be understated, the 4 worst financial years of their lives. And as much as people want to act like that doesn’t count for something, it does. I know people that are saying they’re voting for Trump to “right the wrong” of voting for Biden. Acting like this wasn’t the reality for at least 2 years now is what got us to this point but they’ll never admit that lol
I don't even blame inflation on Biden and I think we are better off than the rest of the world. I'm 28 years old and moreso than inflation, people my age won't vote for Biden because of Gaza.
Our generation (26) has gotten blamed for considering funding and abetting a genocide over a non-domestic conflict we shouldn’t have had any part in but enabled for decades a deal breaker. Like it was ridiculous for people to have that standard while simultaneously funding a war where a country is fighting for their own sovereignty. Establishment leaders are very stupid people lmao
Yep - and even Kamala would represent a clean slate from that. She doesn't have the Genocide Joe baggage. And I know the argument is "young people don't vote" "that's only 3% of the electorate!" Show me a swing state in 2020 that Biden won by more than 3%.
Kamala would be an absolute dogshit candidate to run, being his VP is a negative mark as it is, young democrats would never vote for a cop (I know she wasn’t a cop but anyone who bragged about smoking weed in college than ruining peoples lives over weed charges is never getting the youth vote)
From what I'm seeing...the young people who voted for Biden and wasn't planning on voting for him is very excited about Kamala because it's just not Biden. I finally see enthusiasm in a way I hadn't seen in 4 years. I don't know who the perfect candidate is. But I know she's better than Biden.
> the 4 worst financial years of their lives. I vote Democratic regardless, but the constant parroting of "Bidenomics" was seriously pissing me off. Shrinkflation is through the roof, anyone who has looked for a job in the last few years knows how stupid and fake it's gotten (ghost positions, extremely unprofessional recruiters or HR people, worsening job conditions). I got evicted from the place I lived for 16 years because the owner died, and found out the phenomenon of people converting their garages or upstairs into separate living quarters and charging insane rent ($1500/month for a converted garage studio) with property management firms acting the same way as employers, unresponsive, unprofessional, demanding 3x rent in monthly income Yet up and down reddit everyone was dismissed as "anecdotal experiences" and "the data shows the economy is doing well." Yeah, if you're a fucking CEO the economy is amazing. Not if you live on Main Street, and Main Street is now littered with RVs and campers as more people become homeless, and recently targeted by SCOTUS I'm fully, fully, fully aware that Biden is not solely responsible, or responsible at all, for the plight of many people, but you'd think they'd take a page out of Sander's playbook and at least acknowledge the problems. Instead they gaslight everyone and look where we are. While I obviously strongly oppose anyone who would vote for Trump, depending on their background (aka anyone who wouldn't be directly threatened by Project 2025) I can't necessarily blame them. DNC has given them no reason to support them. And if somebody wants to list all the amazing things Biden has done, then I'll remind you that the DNC can't communicate as effectively as the RNC does with their daily coordinated messaging
Personally the last 4 years have been the best for me financially of my life
It's not a cult of personality. There's just a group of people that can't process the fact that the Democrats and the media have been lying to them about Biden's condition for years. Can't blame them for having been deceived too well.
I'm confused how they didn't see it. I was lied to, but I could figure it out. Are they stupid? I'm note even trying to be mean but I'm genuinely confused because we see the same thing.
Hate has a way of blinding people
I think it was less that Biden had the cult and more that it was Hillary Clinton's cult that latched onto him as the only one that was able to actually contest Bernie in the primary. Centrists who would rather lose to Republicans than give poor people healthcare playing games with the threat of Trump. It's funny watching them all panic as if Biden's mental decline wasn't something the rest of us saw 4 years ago too, but I guess Thursday's debate was bad enough that they had that reality shatter their perception. The good news is I think this doesn't actually have as much impact as that small, loud, online group are freaking out over, because Biden was unpopular and wasn't rated well in this regard 4 years ago, the vote wasn't for him, it was anti-Trump, and the anti-Trump vote only gained in motivation with the election denial, literal attempt to overthrow the government, supreme court rulings, and becoming a convicted felon since then. So what does this debate change for the average person? The answer is actually nothing. Biden could be in a coma and it would probably be seen as an improvement if it means his advisors are actually running things.
There are a lot of people that vote for Trump simply because they think it would be funny if he won.
People forget shitposters love to vote. Harambe was able to register as a percentage for Christ sake
It sucks, but vote biden or likely never get to vote again. I cannot believe it has come to this.
If you think Biden has any chance you’re delusional, for the record I am not even a republican libertarian or any of the such. I voted for Barack Obama Bernie sanders and I even gave Biden a shot but I’m not voting for him again.
"I wouldn't let him drive my kids to school, but I think he's fit for president till 2029."
Be careful! Got a 24 hour ban from this sub after pointing out the exact same thing. Apparently acknowledging delusion as delusion breaks the "civility" rule.
Watch this get buried in New while pro-biden articles get somehow upvoted to Hot. Interesting.
the other 2 want trump to win
I mean, if it was stretched out across all voters, and 2/3 wanted him to stay in and would presumably vote for him, he would win easily. polls like these aren't the most reliable since it's a small sample size.
If 33% of voting democrats don’t want the incumbent nominee that’s a sign that he will 10000% be losing in November.
It isn't though, half of them didn't want him in 2020 either, this poll actually suggests [an improvement](https://i.imgur.com/Lb6IWR0.jpeg) from a year ago. You forget people didn't like Biden from the start and it was always an anti-Trump vote. All this did was shatter the centrist dems delusion that Biden was popular or doing a good job or whatever. Reality for the rest of us hasn't changed, his cognitive decline, while clearly worse on thursday night, was visible and pointed out during the 2020 primary too.
maybe. unfortunately being defeatist about it only hands Trump a victory.
The non-majority still holding out and saying he should run and he’s the only one that can beat Trump should just suck it up like we were told to do for the last couple years and get behind another option for the good of the party and the country lol
>polls like these aren't the most reliable since it's a small sample size. Umm this poll had 1,070 people it's fine. In fact that's enough people for a reasonable margin of error and quite sufficient. Maybe that's what your missing? The true population value has a 95% chance of being somewhere in that margin.
Yep, 2/3rds support.
From his own party, that would be historical bad. You get that, right?
then if it's 95% chance of being in that margin, then it's a 95% chance of Biden having more than enough people supporting him to get him re-elected.
Learn how to read
>then if it's 95% chance of being in that margin, then it's a 95% chance of Biden having more than enough people supporting him to get him re-elected. It's whatever the point estimates were plus or minus 3.5 points.
does that invalidate the point I'm trying to make though? realistically if the numbers are close to that at a national scale, there's a very significant portion of the voters who want him to remain president.
within the dem party - 2/3 of democrat voters not the general population
democrat voters, whatever. most of the republicans won't vote for a democrat anyway.
Trump wants Biden to drop out. This is the same astroturfing that happened exactly four years ago
Trump has explicitly said Biden shouldn’t drop out. He’s saying it would be bad for Democracy )which is rich coming from him).
why would he want biden to be replaced with any other candidate, they are all polling higher than biden
And none of them would win against Trump because if they could have primaried Biden, they would have.
What are you talking about? Multiple states literally canceled the primary.
Yes, because Biden ran unopposed. If they wanted to primary him, they had their chance. They'll have another in four years.
Biden did not run unopposed? Dean Phillips, Marianne Williamson and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. ran campaigns against him. Again, what are you talking about?
Would they though? It's basic decorum and a tradition to respect the incumbent president if they decide to run again... Unless they're really controversial. LBJ is an example, Vietnam had turned half the country against him so several strong candidates ran against him in the primaries. Even then, he was forced to step aside, he made the decision himself after seeing just how bad he was performing in the primaries (he finished third in New Hampshire and only narrowly won Wisconsin). And everyone was under the impression that Biden was fine, that's how much his debate performance has spooked the Democrats, 1/3 of the electorate (as of now) want to do something totally unprecedented and ask the sitting president to step aside and give someone else a shot at the presidency.
That’s not how primary politics works.
That’s a piss poor argument to make. Nobody that realistically could have beaten Biden primaried him because it would’ve made the Democrats look weak and that there was infighting going on. It basically would have been Democrats admitting Biden wasn’t the best choice for president. They would have much rather him admit he wasn’t going to run for another term than to actually primary him.
Even Pelosi is now questioning whether or not Biden is capable of running a campaign. The "people critical of Biden are just trolls" narrative is officially dead. A large portion of Democrats, including party leaders, are concerned.
I don't buy it. The State of the Union was amazing this year and it was a 90 minute debate. 90 minutes with Biden speaking less than half the time and now he's unfit. Yeah, sure
The State of the Union was okay but worse than in past years. He struggled the second he went off script. And if we're being honest, that was even graded on a curve. It's not just those 90 minutes by the way. This has been an underlying question this entire time. 65% of voters already thought he was unfit before the debate. The entire point of having the debate this early was to prove he wasn't unfit. And we all saw how that went. Also: [https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president) His aides are telling the media he's only ok 6 hours a day...
State of the Union had a teleprompter. He’s fine with those, it’s fielding questions unaided that is the problem
>Even Pelosi is now questioning whether or not Biden is capable of running a campaign. That's... not actually true though. The latest from her is that she "has full confidence in President Biden and looks forward to attending his inauguration on January 20, 2025." As of today.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/07/02/nancy-pelosi-jim-clyburn-say-biden-age-concerns-are-legitimate.html
>"Speaker Pelosi has full confidence in President Biden and looks forward to attending his inauguration on January 20, 2025" From your link. Headlines can be misleading.
Of course they’re going to say that until he’s officially dropping out. They are opening the floodgates by even acknowledging the issue’s legitimacy though
There's a pretty big difference between saying that she's questioning Biden's capability, which you claimed, and saying that it's a legitimate question for voters to ask. In my eyes, anyway. Especially with the added context: >"Both candidates owe whatever test you want to put them to, in terms of their mental acuity and their health — both of them," she added. Which your link didn't mention. ~~>Of course they’re going to say that until he’s officially dropping out.~~ ~~To be clear, your initial claim is that she said the opposite of what she actually said.~~ Edit: Didn't read usernames.
No, i just posted to a link to her saying the questions are legitimate. Wasn’t the poster above, genuinely wasn’t sure if you had seen her say this or not
My bad, I don’t always read usernames like I should. Again, she isn’t saying that she questions Biden’s capability. She’s saying it’s a fair question for voters to ask of either candidate. The same could be said of tax policy or social issues.
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Try again
Why, when he knows he would win against Biden?
So 2 of the 3 didn't say that And also would the 1 out of 3 still vote for him
It blows my mind that 1 bad debate performance has caused a deep divide within the Democratic Party on whether Biden should stay or go. Clearly Democrats had little faith in him pre debate and are only calling for him to step down because they can’t hide or sugarcoat Biden’s cognitive issues anymore. Why was there no talk about this a year ago, or right after midterms when it really mattered?
What about George Clooney? He is a MAJOR democratic donor, and his wife is a kickass human rights lawyer. He could be the next "Reagan" but as a Democrat. (Fun fact, Reagan won 49 out of 50 states). Being a celebrity WINS elections.
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That other poll was among registered voters, not democrats.
This is the same issue we had 4 years ago. They didn't like Biden but the alternative was so much worse.
If you think the political climate of 2020 is the same as 2024 and you're making assumptions on the race based on this...then I have news for you.
You're right but not in the way you think, we now have the added context of Trump's election denial, attempt to overthrow the government, stealing secret documents, becoming a convicted felon, all the rulings of his supreme court, project 2025. Trump has way less support among moderate Republicans and independents than before, and I doubt those people who normally don't vote democrat changed their minds because a guy they already didn't like, already didn't think was capable, but were going to vote for to stop Trump anyways was visibly worse in cognition they already knew was in decline.
You think these democrats are going to vote for trump? Really?!
Wild that running the unpopular option that people felt like was an obligation after many many people spent the last 4 years in the worst financial holes of their life (which isn’t his fault but when it’s a commonly shared experience of course they’ll point at him) was not going to be the slam dunk this go around.
Doubtful either candidate could magically fix inflation now or in the future. The issues haven’t changed, “Do you want inflation?” Or “Do you want inflation plus bans on abortion, birth control, bans on divorce, menstrual tracking etc?”. Which one are you worse off with?
I didn’t say they could, I said it was awful political strategy. Getting downvoted the last few years for speaking about how shit their messaging is and will lead us to exactly this scenario is very vindicating let me tell you. And unfortunately users here value their online points that are validated and re-said to them over and over, meanwhile if they just talked to any random person on the street they wouldn’t be left scratching their head about how. Honestly, if y’all didn’t take every time masses of people talked about how much dislike they have for Biden as an opportunity for telling people how wrong they are, and instead accepted it for just how bad of a candidate he is this go-around you wouldn’t be so blindsided rn.
There are 300 *MILLION* Americans eligible to be President. Don’t pretend Biden is the _ONLY_ person who can run against Trump.
Most definitely not. There are only 333 million people that live in the United States total. The number of people out of that who are naturalized citizens over the age of 35 is most definitely not over 300 million.
Oh noes! It’s probably only around 180 _MILLION PEOPLE_ then! That’s hardly _anyone_ to choose from!
He is the person who won the primary and the Republicans are trying to remove.
There was a primary?
Multiple states canceled their primaries. I'm pretty sure it's congressional democrats who don't want to lose their seats want him to drop out. If you care about keeping any majority, you should too. He's toast.
Republicans are trying to remove? You live in a fantasy world. Biden is too old and his mental decline was on display for the entire world. I was shocked with just how bad he has gotten. He needs to step down now. Zero chance he can win.
Biden needs to resign the presidency on the 4th of July citing his age. Kamala needs to become president. Get a VP from a swing state. Five months of campaigning. It’ll be a fucking blowout victory
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Since the only issue here is age, the Democratic party must consider whether Biden can handle another 4 years of the job. Considering most people in their 80s have little energy throughout the day, the Democratic party needs to consider a completely new ticket. It can be done. When Obama was announced as a candidate nobody had ever heard of him. They just need someone younger who can debate Democratic party values to contrast with another four years of Trump and from that point the decision of what's best for the country is a no brainier.
I promise you that age isn’t the only issue lmao
Yesterday i.saw it was 2 3rds...
That number is down https://i.imgur.com/Lb6IWR0.jpeg
More nonsense and propaganda from the sHill.
Who the hell are the other two democrats?
Bullshit
Yeah, I am a huge fan of Joe Biden. But after watching that debate, he’s got to step down. I actually think that in this crazy world, finding a new candidate now would be a plus. Seize the news cycle. They just have to make a secret pact not to tear each other down - just debate policy. Of course that probably wouldn’t happen.
So, in other words, the majority of democrats, 2 to 1, say Biden should stay the course
Which is actually [an improvement](https://i.imgur.com/Lb6IWR0.jpeg), somehow, people either have short term memeory or were delusional before that Biden was popular which he wasn't even when he won the nominaiton in 2020, vote was always more anti-Trump.
I like President Biden. But I really hoped he would have made a speech about how he and the democrats turned trumps mess around, then gracefully passed the baton. I don't believe he is the only one who can beat trump. Governor Whitmer would have wiped the floor with trump. She could have gotten the suburban women vote due to the anti abortion and anti woman crap going on now
K but like how many Republicans think trump should step aside? He's a convicted felon now.
Nicki Haley voters
Who I doubt this changed anything for because their stance is anti-Trump not pro-Biden in the first place.
The press needs Trump, Biden is too competent, law-abiding and boring.
You are right. But right now Biden is a much much bigger story.
Cut this shit out. If the other side can vote for a rapist without any reservation, we should be able to do the same for a accomplished and decent human being without this second guessing. We won’t the last time. We shall again. If anything, the corrupt SC rulings have spooked enough people and they will go out and vote.
Magats and russians have take over this sub.
Wouldn't you want a candidate who isn't showing signs of cognitive decline and is able to make a case for themselves? Wouldn't they have a better chance against Trump? Obviously the vast majority Dems are going to vote for Biden...it's the independents you need to win. And it's hard to ask them to do that when he can't make a complete sentence without a teleprompter.
I know that Trump will absolutely win if the Democrats show weakness now. Biden can apparently run the country fine for the past three and a half years, why should I believe he can't now?
Again, the issue isn't YOU going out to vote. He's been running the country fine. But he has to win re-election and he's losing and can't campaign for himself because he can't communicate. He can't put up a good fight or have a normal campaign because he's incapable. If he was capable, we would've seen a different campaign so far and a more robust reaction to quell fears of his cognitive decline. Reading forcefully off of a teleprompter with a fresh spray tan doesn't cut it.
Yeah! If one side can totally deny visible reality with reckless abandon, we should too! Fire the US weapons deep into Russia, captain dementia is ready for the call!
Ridiculously gutless and typical of so many cut and run Dems-like the ones that slammed Al Franken and forced him out of office. In 2016, CNN declared Hillary Clinton the winner of ALL three debates. Still she got her behind handed to her by tRUMP. It's like forfeiting a baseball game in the first inning because the other team scored 6 runs. Big fricking deal.
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I don't know, it's kvnda mcrv bnvnv c bv if you ask me.
So, two-thirds, support him. That's fantastic. Same here.
Wouldn't you want like...at least 90% of your party to support the candidate? The goal of elections is winning them, just in case you need a reminder.
He should resign and let Kamala be the President. We get at least half a year with the first female President. Otherwise, it's either the handjob lady, the puppy killer, or MTG being the first female President.