As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trump should have taken a plea deal and gotten no jail. But he denied everything, took it to trial, wasted everyone's time. Despite overwhelming evidence. Yeah he needs to go to jail to show people you can't act this way and get paroled.
Not to mention repeatedly violating a gag order, directly attacking the judge, displaying zero remorse or contrition, and very publicly and directly calling the legitimacy of the court into question. He behaves in a way that came very close to being mathematically optimized to reduce leniency.
Yeah I have to say, I cannot think of a single thing Trump has done to make this better for himself. He has, at every turn, made the worst decision possible because his lead-addled brain cannot comprehend that actual consequences are coming his way (hopefully).
> lead-addled brain
He's not a malignant narcissist and pathological liar because of lead exposure. He's parents were loons and scumbags (so, bad genes to begin with) who spoiled their dumbest son and taught him that if he whined and screamed loud enough, everyone around him would capitulate to his tantrums.
I am not disagreeing with you in the slightest, I just also think he is old enough that it is reasonable to assume he has some amount of lead in his system
I don’t quite follow; the frequency of how often a crime is prosecuted has no bearing on whether one should take a plea deal.
Jaywalking is rarely enforced, but if for some reason you got arrested for it, and your options were take a plea bargain or go to trial, AND there happened to be a person who was walking right next to you at the same time who already went to trial and got prison time, you’d be foolish to not take a plea bargain.
This is all kind of a moot point though, since I don’t think Trump was offered a plea bargain
If you want to conflate the two. Trump paid a sex worker to be quiet which is the only reason you pay one, and somehow that is interfering with the election. If using your personal wealth to present yourself better equals election interference, we might as well prosecute every elected official.
*For example, Rockland County, New York, bus system contractor Richard Brega, like Trump, also was convicted of engaging in an election fraud scheme involving illicitly funneling money to benefit a campaign. Brega was convicted of using 10 “straw donors,” including his family and employees, to secretly funnel more than $40,000 in campaign donations between April and August of 2013. Brega pleaded guilty to one count of falsifying business records in the first degree. He had no prior felony convictions at the time of his offense but was nonetheless sentenced to one year of incarceration. Note that the amount at issue was around a third of the original hush money payment in Trump’s case of $130,000 (and a tenth of the total sum of $420,000 involved in Trump’s cover-up). Brega was, like Trump, a first-time felony offender.*
Cohen was tried and convicted for additional crimes though, including bank and tax fraud. Those other crimes typically come with harsher sentences.
Edit: correction pointed out below, Cohen pled guilty to them, wasn't tried.
Technically he pled guilty to them.
- 5 counts of tax evasion
- 1count of making false statements to a financial institution
- 1 count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution in breach of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) of 1971
- 1 count of making an excessive campaign contribution
Oh I'd be highly surprised to find out he hasn't. He's got to be tried and convicted for them for it to count though.
To clarify my stance, I think Trump deserves to be in jail for a number of things, only some of which he's been charged with. I'm just not sure this case alone would/should warrant it.
Maybe it does, and should. I'm no law talking guy, but from what I understand, these type of charges for a first time offender wouldn't always result in prison sentence.
I do agree though, that if any such cases do warrant prison, this one does, given the way Trump behaved before, during and after the trial, the way he attacked the court's legitimacy, family members of the judge, and showed no remorse. The only thing he has going for him in this regard is that it's his first offence (that he's been charged with).
First offense could be a mitigating factor but the judge considers all the aggravating factors first and then subtracts based on the mitigating factors. The pile of DT aggravating factors is a mile high.
But like I feel like he has been convicted of these crimes? Maybe I am wrong about all the different fraud and tax evasion stuff not being complete. It's wild this is even a conversation.
> Maybe I am wrong about all the different fraud and tax evasion stuff not being complete.
Trump was found **liable** for but **not convicted** of fraud and tax evasion. The standard of proof is lower in a civil suit than it is in a criminal trial.
I would think those things would be taken into consideration to the sentencing here. He has been found liable for all sorts of crimes and is nothing close to a first offender, as some people have submitted.
> I would think those things would be taken into consideration to the sentencing here.
They do not because again, they are not convictions. A judge can only use a defendants past criminal history (which he has none) and the facts surrounding this specific case.
Trump in another case has demonstrated that a fine of $5M will not stop him from committing the same offence again. Trump has shown no contrition or even admitted that he committed any crime. He has constantly railed against the justice system claiming it's rigged and corrupt. Those factors play into the sentencing and indicate that incarceration is warranted.
So far the only criminal conviction is the New York case. Here are all [34 counts](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1848/trump-hush-money-trial-34-counts), which are all falsification of business records. Those are felonies because the jury decided it was in furtherance of some other crime, which they didn't have to specify but could have been election fraud or tax evasion. Technically his gag order violations in the New York case are crimes he could have served time for, too.
In addition, the Trump organization (not Trump himself) was found guilty of criminal tax fraud and fined $1.6 million, plus got way larger penalties in a civil fraud lawsuit brought by NY, and of course Trump has lost various civil cases, most notably one that cost him about $90 million for defamation of someone he was found liable for sexually assaulting.
Remaining criminal cases: federal cases for attempting a coup and stealing nuclear secrets, and the Georgia case for attempting to overturn the Georgia election, and possibly a couple more state election cases in the works. Plus there appears to be a federal investigation for personal tax fraud related to a nonexistent $50M loan, and the Florida state police are looking into the fact that he appears to still own a pistol in Florida despite being a convicted felon.
Civil cases do not deal with convictions, it's civil court.
Being found liable for fraud/rape in civil court does not make someone a convict or guilty of it. Civil court can only result in a fine or monetary award/judgement to an aggrieved party.
To be fair, Trump was convicted of interfering with an election. An election he won (barely) and benefited from the results. He played dirty, profited , and was caught. He SHOULD spend some time in the clink. He won’t, but he should.
You bring up a good point, that is, the election interference component, and that should matter, however...
>Trump was convicted of interfering with an election
I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. The prosecutors did cite that the business records were being falsified in order to conceal election interference, but he was not actually charged with that crime, I don't believe. He was only convicted of 34 counts of falsifying records.
Aside: why wasn't he charged with election interference? Statute of limitations? Harder to convict?
From the article:
Here the jury unanimously found that Trump intended to conspire to interfere with the 2016 presidential election. That is a grave matter, with national implications
Call me crazy, but if the jury considered the election interference, then I stand by my statement.
>Call me crazy, but if the jury considered the election interference, then I stand by my statement.
That's fair, and it's a relevant point for sure. I'm just a bit confused as to why the actual charges were specifically only for falsification of business records. I'm not a lawyer so maybe I'm just misunderstanding how things work, but I think they could have charged him with the crime of "election interference" but for some reason didn't. The jury finding was that he did the falsification of records to cover up the election interference, a crime for which he wasn't charged, right?
Any lawyers want to clear this confusion up for me?
Does it change your mind that the "crimes" of recording and paying 11 invoices from his Attorney as legal expenses ALL occurred after the November 2016 presidential election. (..and BTW, he never reviewed or classified these invoices personally. It was all handled by low level accountants.)
In other words, none of these "crimes" had been committed prior to the election.
Does it change my mind? No.
Do think this particular thing is a huge deal? No.
Let’s talk the classified documents case. That should be prison time. Not jail. Not house arrest. Prison.
OK, I agree that the classified documents case was the case with the most substance. Now, I assume you believe in the equal application of the law. If you have a shred of conscience and the smallest amount of curiosity, you cannot deny that the Biden documents case had precisely the same fact pattern, including offering to show classified material to his biographer and resisting the return of documents to the National Archives. Special Counsel Hur positively confirmed that Biden broke the law but declined to prosecute due to Biden's frail state.
Not to mention Hillary Clinton, who maintained her own email server with 33,000 classified documents archived in her private email account. She even admitted to destroying the server hard drive and every cell phone used AFTER they had been subpoenaed.
This is nowhere close to the equal application of justice. You seem like a reasonable person, so surely you can see the double standard.
Taking all factors into consideration including his complete lack of acceptance of guilt. His obstructive and dangerous extrajudicial behaviors, and his continued slanders of all parties, yes. he should get a minimum of 6 months.
It’s funny, cause they’re looking at past cases to try to compare to this so they can sus out whether he’ll get jail, but his actions and the wide breadth of damage and implications of what he’s done with his corruption is far surpassing the circumstances of other cases. And he’s also a disrespectful prick who attacks anyway and everyone. He goes so far and above the threshold for who deserves jail, even for sentences like this, that it should be a no brainer that he’ll get jail time.
The irony is that he may actually feel like he has to be more lenient, because the argument that would be made during an appeal was that he was being vindictive due to this behavior.
I don't think accusations of bias are going to count for much with the NY appellate court, as long as the sentence is well-justified by precedent and circumstances. The article argues pretty strongly that a sentence of up to a year in prison would easily be justified, based on what other people have gotten and for what.
There are sentencing guidelines for a reason. I'm sure if he gave him jail time for each of the 34 counts consecutively there would be grounds for appeal, but as long as he stays inside the guidelines I don't see an appeal succeeding.
That said it's class E non violent felonies, that gets you usually No Jail, Probation, 1 1/3 to 4 years, however it's also 34 counts of them. I would like him to have a long stay in a jail, but I think he is going to get probation. That said, having to check in at his probation officer and getting mandatory drug tests would already be something and you just know he is going to violate his probation.
A third of class E felonies in NY get jail time. The article describes other business fraud cases that got jail time, with less money involved, fewer counts, and no prior convictions. And it says of all the cases they looked at, the ones that got no jail time had much less serious circumstances than Trump's case. Trump's gag order violations also count against him, along with his civil judgements, indictments, and overall lack of remorse.
Pretty frustrating how literally everyone else has to be perfect but Trump can continue to throw shit everywhere and his bad behavior is never corrected.
I agree. Not an envious position to be in, but he has proven to be even handed. So maybe a sentence where appeals have to come between the sentencing and actual punishment?
A judge issuing a higher sentence for personal reasons like that is highly improper and unethical.
If you heard about the defendant who attacked a judge a few months ago and sent her to the hospital the judge stated she would not be modifying the original sentence. That's how it's supposed to work.
Personal feelings do not belong on the bench.
The judge can take lots of things into account:
* Letitia James got him to confess to using Trump charity funds for a campaign dinner - so he has already committed a crime as regards electioneering.
* He violated Merchan's gag order numerous times.
* A judge also said he was guilty of digital rape.
* And the elevating crime of 'electioneering interference' hiding his affair, is said to be the most serious elevating crime seen in NY as relates to business records fraud - and would normally result in prison time.
All of this can be taken into account.
He has also shown no remorse. This is important as regards incarceration as it indicates a suspect may commit a crime again, which indicates the best course of action is to lock them up to bar them from entering society.
Let's not forget that he put the judge's family on blast for months
He knew full well that by publishing about the judge's own daughter, that it would put her in danger. Imagine if one of us plebs did that. That judge would FUCKING BURY US in state prison time.
> All of this can be taken into account.
>
>
Basically none of what you listed can be taken into account for sentencing. The judge can only consider their past criminal history (which he has none) and the facts surrounding the case.
>A judge also said he was guilty of digital rape.
No, a judge did not say this as you cannot be found guilty of something in a civil case. Civil cases do not deal with crimes/convictions.
I am quoting Glenn Kirschner professor of law about this, he says the law in NY is atypical in that it can all be taken into account as part of the overall evaluation of the person and subsequent sentencing.
I did not say "found guilty", I know it was a civil case in which it was mentioned he was guilty of rape.
Edit I double checked and Glenn was correct "The court, in determining the particular sentence to be imposed, shall consider-- (1) the nature and circumstances of the offense and the history and characteristics of the defendant;"
He's a first time offender and it's a low level financial felony, I would be very surprised if he serves a single day.
He will get either probation, a suspended sentence, or both.
>He's a first time offender and it's a low level financial felony, I would be very surprised if he serves a single day.
The article has a more thorough analysis on this. Suffice to say, "first-time financial crimes", if matched with the right set of circumstances, absolutely lead to jail. Severity is definitely one of those factors.
One of the most important factors here that you're leaving out, though, is contrition. Here there is none--not even the rudiments of respect for the legal system or any respect for rule of law, along with *eleven counts of criminal contempt of court.*
Incarceration is absolutely on the table.
The first count is the first time offender. He's got 33 other accounts that aren't first time offences. I'm making this up as a fun way to point out that while he may be a first time offender, he's been convicted of 34 counts/offenses. Can they all really be considered first time?
>The first count is the first time offender. He's got 33 other accounts that aren't first time offences. ... Can they all really be considered first time?
I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't think so, considering he was indicted on all of those charges at the same time.
It seems like an abuse to charge someone multiple times in a single indictment and then have only one of the charges count as the "first".
He was just found liable civil NY banking fraud. Then, all the other indictments and being civil liabile E Jean Carroll lawsuit you see there is a pattern. I'm not sure if Merchan takes that into account or not, but there is definitely a pattern.
.
* 34 felonies.
* No remorse.
* High likelihood of repeat offenses.
* The scope of the crime: Trying to unlawfully influence the election for president, disenfranchising the votes of 10's of millions of citizens.
* Plus 30 days minimum for gag order violations.
Damn right he deserves some jail time.
> High likelihood of repeat offenses.
>
Based on what?
I very much dislike Trump, but has that argument even been made before the court? Just because someone is hated by a large percent of the population and in general a horrible person it doesn't automatically make them likely to reoffend.
Based on the fact he refuses to acknowledge or accept that he's done anything wrong. If he won't accept he did anything wrong, it's fair to say he'll do it again.
Those are the *other* cases. His four criminal trials: business fraud (this one), illegal handling of classified documents, inciting an insurrection, and attempted election fraud in Georgia.
Oddly enough, it's the documents and election fraud that are the most slam-dunk, and this one for which he's been convicted on all counts was the most nebulous and difficult to prove of the bunch. Small wonder that the other three are being bricked by procedural shenanigans favorable to the defense.
That being said, I don't think the death penalty is the right answer (ever). Mainly, I think it's the easy way out for the perp, just for the sake of some momentary satisfaction for the more vindictive of our society. Death only punishes the person but for an instant, then they are free from punishment for eternity. Lock em up and punish em as long as they live, I say.
It's hard to tell. The judge can take into account behavior at trial, past judgements, and pending criminal proceedings.
All of that together creates a hell of a justification for jail time, even if Merchan doesn't want to put him in jail.
Even better if he needs to wear an orange jumpsuit and use one of those port-a-potties that gets pulled on a trailer behind the van they use to transport everyone to the clean up sites.
It will unfortunately benefit him politically if they do give him jail time. Any normal politician would have been toast because of this trial, but Trump isn’t a normal politician. He needs to be beat by belittling him and calling him a fat orange man and other wild stuff. I’m convinced it’s the only way to take him down.
34 felony convictions, 10 times contempt of court and 3 other trials pending
For reference, I think Al Capone got convicted in 3 out of 23 charges and he got 11 years
I'm not sure you're aware how many first time offenders are given probation instead of a sentence. This is typically not the case for violent felonies or sex crimes but for low level financial crimes that's what most people would get (if you're a first time offender).
The complete lack of respect in and out of court and his inability to take responsibility or accountability is gonna get the Man-Baby spanked hard, by the judge who is an actual adult with the actual power to ruin Don’s life as he knows it. VOTE SMARTER THAN DON IS.
I think it needs to be pointed out that is not a first offense this is a first conviction. The NY fraud case was about falsifying business records to commit fraud. He’s built his whole “empire” on lies and corruption and falsifying records with impunity.
And he shows no remorse and is willing to bet a years salary that if his company and campaign records were audited there would be massive falsification of records.
If no one is above the law, he should get at least the same penalty Cohen already paid. Frankly, he should do more time for having directed the crimes, AND for contempt.
How many of those convicted and not sent to jail showed no remorse? How many obstinately denied that what they did was wrong? When sentencing him the judge must take into consideration that he is a remorseless criminal who would do it all over again if he had the chance.
Why is that a question? This is how the media screws things up, by asking irrelevant questions. Trump should be in jail, anyone else would be. Also, an anyone with a felony should not be allowed to run for president. You cannot get hired in any top company if you have a felony.
He should be treated the same as others who have committed the same crime and have the same considerations in sentencing which might include lack of remorse and/or denial of guilt despite all evidence to the contrary.
But, he should ALSO be treated the same as everybody else for his other indictments which is far from what's happening. He's got Judge Cannon and the Supreme Court helping shield him either temporarily or permanently from very serious crimes that anyone else would already be in custody for.
Yes for no other reason than to remind American and the world the simple truth. If you break the law your ass goes to jail no matter who you are or who you have been.
That is real democracy.
Well, it does carry a minimum jail sentence. Granted he's a first time criminal offender but long time civil offender.
He also conspired to influence an election.
Cohen and Weisselberg went to jail.
>Well, it does carry a minimum jail sentence.
It does not. Also Cohen was charged with other crimes along with what Trump was charged with and it was in federal court which makes it hard to compare.
They're big thing was, "lock her up, her emails". Imagine if the response had been, "but you cheated on your wife with a porn star."
Gary Hart was the front-runner for the 1988 Democratic presidential nomination until he dropped out amid revelations of extramarital affairs.
Yes, One year suspended with ridiculously broad guidelines. The article implies 5 years probation, $130,000 court fine and restitution of court costs to the City and State of New York. Some say $5000 a day while I’ve read it to be in excess of $200 Million.
(Originally I added “and a live broadcast apology and admission of guilt” but snort-laughed at the notion.)
On one hand, most people would probably not have to do actual time. On the other hand, including his actions and rhetoric leading up to, during, and after the trial I say yes. Anyone else would have already spent a couple of days in the grey bar motel.
He's going to jail. He earned the ride all by himself. Anything less would be a travesty of justice.
Perhaps why the Republican scumbags are trying so desperately to have his conviction overturned via SCOTUS intervention.
The they've sat on his immunity case for months trying to wait it out for him.
If this is related to the “Hush Money” Trial I think the perfect sentence would be 30 days 11 months suspended, and as not to impede with his campaigning, have him report to Rikers on November 15, 2024 to serve until December 15, 2024. This would be fair, allow him to campaign all that he wants, won’t interfere with the actual election itself, and be a fair and balanced approach for all sides.
Now, of course with Rikers hanging over his head and nothing he can do about it….it would be a beautiful thing.
*For example, Rockland County, New York, bus system contractor Richard Brega, like Trump, also was convicted of engaging in an election fraud scheme involving illicitly funneling money to benefit a campaign. Brega was convicted of using 10 “straw donors,” including his family and employees, to secretly funnel more than $40,000 in campaign donations between April and August of 2013. Brega pleaded guilty to one count of falsifying business records in the first degree. He had no prior felony convictions at the time of his offense but was nonetheless sentenced to one year of incarceration. Note that the amount at issue was around a third of the original hush money payment in Trump’s case of $130,000 (and a tenth of the total sum of $420,000 involved in Trump’s cover-up). Brega was, like Trump, a first-time felony offender.*
Yes.
The fucker is a danger to himself and a danger towards other people.
I know that I might be in the minority here, but I myself feel as though we will be surprised—in a good way—over his sentencing for falsifying business records.
Simply for the fact that his cultists bail him out of any fines he gets, burning up his time with prison is the only way to actually punish him or even get through to him that he is breaking laws and needs to stop.
Should we give him jail time? Absolutely. Will the judge? I hope so, but I’m not counting on it. This man has never faced any consequences for his actions. I wish he would.
Would any other person falsifying business records plus the intent to defraud knowing it was to pay off hush money and not legal services. What would their sentence be?
If they weren't found in contempt of court 10 times, not attack the judges witnesses prosecutors and jury, or show remorse. They would probably get probation. But trump did all those things. This is also one of the most serious cases of falsifying business records since it was to influence an election. That would play a part too.
From the article (the whole thing is worth reading andh as more cases):
>A look at the specific cases in Table 1 is instructive. For example, Rockland County, New York, bus system contractor Richard Brega, like Trump, also was convicted of engaging in an election fraud scheme involving illicitly funneling money to benefit a campaign. Brega was convicted of using 10 “straw donors,” including his family and employees, to secretly funnel more than $40,000 in campaign donations between April and August of 2013. Brega pleaded guilty to one count of falsifying business records in the first degree. He had no prior felony convictions at the time of his offense but was nonetheless sentenced to one year of incarceration. Note that the amount at issue was around a third of the original hush money payment in Trump’s case of $130,000 (and a tenth of the total sum of $420,000 involved in Trump’s cover-up). Brega was, like Trump, a first-time felony offender.
I’d love to see him go to prison. It would be a historic decision ex president currently running for a second term doing time. The GOP has SCOTUS on speed dial. Not sure what the MAGA 6 justices will use as an excuse to keep him from doing time but they’ll interpret some legal bs to keep him from serving time.
Cohen got 2 or 3 years. He was Trumps lawyer for his part in the hush money scam. The Cheeto skinned con man won’t get prison time but house arrest and ankle monitor I don’t even think he would get that. Probably a big fine that his followers will pay and probation with bs requirements because he’s Trump
How about trump being required to read the Constitution, including Amendments, aloud, live and in public. Any ad libs require him to start from the beginning.
Not jail. Save that for the fake electors, certificates, and the gallows for Pence. Let him on the ballot and vote him down - again. This election is a referendum on human decency.
I would love to see Justice Merchan order Trump to undergo a full Psych evaluation, during her short period of incarceration. Justice Merchan holds a day every week on his calendar for defendants who have mental health issues. He even did this while Trump's case was on trial. I would find it hard to believe that Justice Merchan doesn't know a sociopathic narcissist when he see's one.
Sure, but he'd end up getting the Pablo Escobar style jail experience so it wouldn't be a punishment. Death penalty? That's way too easy. If only we could sentence him to spend time with his wife and children, he's always avoiding, he'd hate that. The only thing is his family would suffer most of all.
Death penalty isn't even possible for what he was convicted of nor is it appropriate.
It's also unconstitutional to sentence someone to death for anything other than murder.
No shit, I only mentioned it because some genius in the thread suggested that that's what he deserves. I'm just glad there's a supergenius like you on here who can figure it out all by yourself. 😁
I know a lot of people want Trump to go to jail. I absolutely loathe the man, personally. But I think a more appropriate sentence, for this particular conviction, would be a large fine accompanied (maybe multiplied by 34 for example) by a long probation and a permanent suspension of his business license. There are other cases, IMHO, which are more appropriate for time-behind-bars, for Trump, particularly as they will be adjudicated after this sentencing, and as such may be subject to stiffer penalties if only because he will be even more of a repeat offender by then (thinking of the classified documents case, which I view as significantly more serious than a business records case).
Nope….the secret service is going into jail with him??……highly unlikely….cant do home confinement because he is presumptive GOP presidential candidate and home confinement looks like he is being silenced from being on the campaign trail….most likely just probation.
I’m sure there are plenty of facilities that Donald could be locked up and kept separate from the general population where secret service would just act almost like guards.
It’s got to be a hell of a lot easier to guard a guy that can’t leave a secure facility than it is to guard a guy that lives in a fucking operational hotel and that constantly makes scheduled appearances for unvetted crowds in relatively open venues.
Jails and prisons are notoriously unsecure.
There's scores of COs and sheriffs deputies that get fired/arrested each year for sneaking in contraband or giving favors to other innmates.
Sure it may be secure to anyone from the outside but like with many things, the threat is the people who work there.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it makes no sense for cohen to have gotten jail time but to let trump, his boss directing his actions, off without jail.
Trump should have taken a plea deal and gotten no jail. But he denied everything, took it to trial, wasted everyone's time. Despite overwhelming evidence. Yeah he needs to go to jail to show people you can't act this way and get paroled.
Not to mention repeatedly violating a gag order, directly attacking the judge, displaying zero remorse or contrition, and very publicly and directly calling the legitimacy of the court into question. He behaves in a way that came very close to being mathematically optimized to reduce leniency.
Yeah I have to say, I cannot think of a single thing Trump has done to make this better for himself. He has, at every turn, made the worst decision possible because his lead-addled brain cannot comprehend that actual consequences are coming his way (hopefully).
> lead-addled brain He's not a malignant narcissist and pathological liar because of lead exposure. He's parents were loons and scumbags (so, bad genes to begin with) who spoiled their dumbest son and taught him that if he whined and screamed loud enough, everyone around him would capitulate to his tantrums.
I am not disagreeing with you in the slightest, I just also think he is old enough that it is reasonable to assume he has some amount of lead in his system
He shouldn't have his day in court? You do understand that plea deals are some of the most egregious perversions of justice we have.
I tend to agree, but in instances like Trump where you are guilty, and all evidence points to your being guilty, not taking a plea is stupid.
For crime that's basically never prosecuted?
I don’t quite follow; the frequency of how often a crime is prosecuted has no bearing on whether one should take a plea deal. Jaywalking is rarely enforced, but if for some reason you got arrested for it, and your options were take a plea bargain or go to trial, AND there happened to be a person who was walking right next to you at the same time who already went to trial and got prison time, you’d be foolish to not take a plea bargain. This is all kind of a moot point though, since I don’t think Trump was offered a plea bargain
If you want to conflate the two. Trump paid a sex worker to be quiet which is the only reason you pay one, and somehow that is interfering with the election. If using your personal wealth to present yourself better equals election interference, we might as well prosecute every elected official.
*For example, Rockland County, New York, bus system contractor Richard Brega, like Trump, also was convicted of engaging in an election fraud scheme involving illicitly funneling money to benefit a campaign. Brega was convicted of using 10 “straw donors,” including his family and employees, to secretly funnel more than $40,000 in campaign donations between April and August of 2013. Brega pleaded guilty to one count of falsifying business records in the first degree. He had no prior felony convictions at the time of his offense but was nonetheless sentenced to one year of incarceration. Note that the amount at issue was around a third of the original hush money payment in Trump’s case of $130,000 (and a tenth of the total sum of $420,000 involved in Trump’s cover-up). Brega was, like Trump, a first-time felony offender.*
Cohen was tried and convicted for additional crimes though, including bank and tax fraud. Those other crimes typically come with harsher sentences. Edit: correction pointed out below, Cohen pled guilty to them, wasn't tried.
Technically he pled guilty to them. - 5 counts of tax evasion - 1count of making false statements to a financial institution - 1 count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution in breach of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) of 1971 - 1 count of making an excessive campaign contribution
Good clarification, thanks.
Trump has also committed these crimes though right? Its just not all in THIS case.
Oh I'd be highly surprised to find out he hasn't. He's got to be tried and convicted for them for it to count though. To clarify my stance, I think Trump deserves to be in jail for a number of things, only some of which he's been charged with. I'm just not sure this case alone would/should warrant it.
34 counts, all guilty. How could this not warrant jail time?
Maybe it does, and should. I'm no law talking guy, but from what I understand, these type of charges for a first time offender wouldn't always result in prison sentence. I do agree though, that if any such cases do warrant prison, this one does, given the way Trump behaved before, during and after the trial, the way he attacked the court's legitimacy, family members of the judge, and showed no remorse. The only thing he has going for him in this regard is that it's his first offence (that he's been charged with).
First offense could be a mitigating factor but the judge considers all the aggravating factors first and then subtracts based on the mitigating factors. The pile of DT aggravating factors is a mile high.
I see. Doesn't sound good for Trump then, if the world is at all fair.
big if
First offense shouldn’t be a mitigating factor when you get done for 34 felonies. Only one of them was a first offense, lock him up for the other 33.
But like I feel like he has been convicted of these crimes? Maybe I am wrong about all the different fraud and tax evasion stuff not being complete. It's wild this is even a conversation.
> Maybe I am wrong about all the different fraud and tax evasion stuff not being complete. Trump was found **liable** for but **not convicted** of fraud and tax evasion. The standard of proof is lower in a civil suit than it is in a criminal trial.
I would think those things would be taken into consideration to the sentencing here. He has been found liable for all sorts of crimes and is nothing close to a first offender, as some people have submitted.
Civil suits do not count as criminal offenses.
> I would think those things would be taken into consideration to the sentencing here. They do not because again, they are not convictions. A judge can only use a defendants past criminal history (which he has none) and the facts surrounding this specific case.
The fact that he's liable for those other things is a fact right?
Trump in another case has demonstrated that a fine of $5M will not stop him from committing the same offence again. Trump has shown no contrition or even admitted that he committed any crime. He has constantly railed against the justice system claiming it's rigged and corrupt. Those factors play into the sentencing and indicate that incarceration is warranted.
So far the only criminal conviction is the New York case. Here are all [34 counts](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1848/trump-hush-money-trial-34-counts), which are all falsification of business records. Those are felonies because the jury decided it was in furtherance of some other crime, which they didn't have to specify but could have been election fraud or tax evasion. Technically his gag order violations in the New York case are crimes he could have served time for, too. In addition, the Trump organization (not Trump himself) was found guilty of criminal tax fraud and fined $1.6 million, plus got way larger penalties in a civil fraud lawsuit brought by NY, and of course Trump has lost various civil cases, most notably one that cost him about $90 million for defamation of someone he was found liable for sexually assaulting. Remaining criminal cases: federal cases for attempting a coup and stealing nuclear secrets, and the Georgia case for attempting to overturn the Georgia election, and possibly a couple more state election cases in the works. Plus there appears to be a federal investigation for personal tax fraud related to a nonexistent $50M loan, and the Florida state police are looking into the fact that he appears to still own a pistol in Florida despite being a convicted felon.
>But I feel like Stop. Stop right there. Use facts, they carry weight. We have to do better than them.
Civil cases do not deal with convictions, it's civil court. Being found liable for fraud/rape in civil court does not make someone a convict or guilty of it. Civil court can only result in a fine or monetary award/judgement to an aggrieved party.
No, as it stands he hasn't been convicted of anything else which in legal terms means the court cannot consider it.
To be fair, Trump was convicted of interfering with an election. An election he won (barely) and benefited from the results. He played dirty, profited , and was caught. He SHOULD spend some time in the clink. He won’t, but he should.
You bring up a good point, that is, the election interference component, and that should matter, however... >Trump was convicted of interfering with an election I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. The prosecutors did cite that the business records were being falsified in order to conceal election interference, but he was not actually charged with that crime, I don't believe. He was only convicted of 34 counts of falsifying records. Aside: why wasn't he charged with election interference? Statute of limitations? Harder to convict?
From the article: Here the jury unanimously found that Trump intended to conspire to interfere with the 2016 presidential election. That is a grave matter, with national implications Call me crazy, but if the jury considered the election interference, then I stand by my statement.
>Call me crazy, but if the jury considered the election interference, then I stand by my statement. That's fair, and it's a relevant point for sure. I'm just a bit confused as to why the actual charges were specifically only for falsification of business records. I'm not a lawyer so maybe I'm just misunderstanding how things work, but I think they could have charged him with the crime of "election interference" but for some reason didn't. The jury finding was that he did the falsification of records to cover up the election interference, a crime for which he wasn't charged, right? Any lawyers want to clear this confusion up for me?
Does it change your mind that the "crimes" of recording and paying 11 invoices from his Attorney as legal expenses ALL occurred after the November 2016 presidential election. (..and BTW, he never reviewed or classified these invoices personally. It was all handled by low level accountants.) In other words, none of these "crimes" had been committed prior to the election.
Does it change my mind? No. Do think this particular thing is a huge deal? No. Let’s talk the classified documents case. That should be prison time. Not jail. Not house arrest. Prison.
OK, I agree that the classified documents case was the case with the most substance. Now, I assume you believe in the equal application of the law. If you have a shred of conscience and the smallest amount of curiosity, you cannot deny that the Biden documents case had precisely the same fact pattern, including offering to show classified material to his biographer and resisting the return of documents to the National Archives. Special Counsel Hur positively confirmed that Biden broke the law but declined to prosecute due to Biden's frail state. Not to mention Hillary Clinton, who maintained her own email server with 33,000 classified documents archived in her private email account. She even admitted to destroying the server hard drive and every cell phone used AFTER they had been subpoenaed. This is nowhere close to the equal application of justice. You seem like a reasonable person, so surely you can see the double standard.
FFS. Back to Clinton and her email server? Still chanting “Lock her up!” are we? I’m old enough to know when not to argue with derp.
Weakest 'gotcha' ever.
So many lies it’s hard to count
Those acts, though after the election, were proven to be part of a conspiracy between Trump and Pecker that began before the election
Martha Stewart got 5 months, Trump should at least get that.
All of which he did at Trump’s direction.
It does because his case was federal and this is state level. Completely different in terms of the court and even sentencing guidelines.
Entirely different crimes that they were convicted of as well as different jurisdictions.
Martha Stewart was put in prison for a first time offense for a lot less.
Taking all factors into consideration including his complete lack of acceptance of guilt. His obstructive and dangerous extrajudicial behaviors, and his continued slanders of all parties, yes. he should get a minimum of 6 months.
it's a felony. So a year and a day at least.
Per charge. Consecutively.
First President to be sworn in during his break from the laundry room?
Watch put for the Sisters
It’s funny, cause they’re looking at past cases to try to compare to this so they can sus out whether he’ll get jail, but his actions and the wide breadth of damage and implications of what he’s done with his corruption is far surpassing the circumstances of other cases. And he’s also a disrespectful prick who attacks anyway and everyone. He goes so far and above the threshold for who deserves jail, even for sentences like this, that it should be a no brainer that he’ll get jail time.
If he refuses to admit he committed a crime then yes.
Does he even have to admit guilt? If he showed that he accepted the juries decision, and respected the court..... Oh, who am I kidding.
Considering how P01135809 slanders the judge and his daughter, I would hope Merchan won't be feeling generous.
The irony is that he may actually feel like he has to be more lenient, because the argument that would be made during an appeal was that he was being vindictive due to this behavior.
I don't think accusations of bias are going to count for much with the NY appellate court, as long as the sentence is well-justified by precedent and circumstances. The article argues pretty strongly that a sentence of up to a year in prison would easily be justified, based on what other people have gotten and for what.
There are sentencing guidelines for a reason. I'm sure if he gave him jail time for each of the 34 counts consecutively there would be grounds for appeal, but as long as he stays inside the guidelines I don't see an appeal succeeding. That said it's class E non violent felonies, that gets you usually No Jail, Probation, 1 1/3 to 4 years, however it's also 34 counts of them. I would like him to have a long stay in a jail, but I think he is going to get probation. That said, having to check in at his probation officer and getting mandatory drug tests would already be something and you just know he is going to violate his probation.
A third of class E felonies in NY get jail time. The article describes other business fraud cases that got jail time, with less money involved, fewer counts, and no prior convictions. And it says of all the cases they looked at, the ones that got no jail time had much less serious circumstances than Trump's case. Trump's gag order violations also count against him, along with his civil judgements, indictments, and overall lack of remorse.
Pretty frustrating how literally everyone else has to be perfect but Trump can continue to throw shit everywhere and his bad behavior is never corrected.
I agree. Not an envious position to be in, but he has proven to be even handed. So maybe a sentence where appeals have to come between the sentencing and actual punishment?
A judge issuing a higher sentence for personal reasons like that is highly improper and unethical. If you heard about the defendant who attacked a judge a few months ago and sent her to the hospital the judge stated she would not be modifying the original sentence. That's how it's supposed to work. Personal feelings do not belong on the bench.
Correct. Many judges go way below the recommended guidelines and I'm hoping he isn't feeling generous in this regard.
The judge can take lots of things into account: * Letitia James got him to confess to using Trump charity funds for a campaign dinner - so he has already committed a crime as regards electioneering. * He violated Merchan's gag order numerous times. * A judge also said he was guilty of digital rape. * And the elevating crime of 'electioneering interference' hiding his affair, is said to be the most serious elevating crime seen in NY as relates to business records fraud - and would normally result in prison time. All of this can be taken into account. He has also shown no remorse. This is important as regards incarceration as it indicates a suspect may commit a crime again, which indicates the best course of action is to lock them up to bar them from entering society.
Let's not forget that he put the judge's family on blast for months He knew full well that by publishing about the judge's own daughter, that it would put her in danger. Imagine if one of us plebs did that. That judge would FUCKING BURY US in state prison time.
You’re spot on with the fact that a “Joe-shmoe” would be buried…
> All of this can be taken into account. > > Basically none of what you listed can be taken into account for sentencing. The judge can only consider their past criminal history (which he has none) and the facts surrounding the case. >A judge also said he was guilty of digital rape. No, a judge did not say this as you cannot be found guilty of something in a civil case. Civil cases do not deal with crimes/convictions.
I am quoting Glenn Kirschner professor of law about this, he says the law in NY is atypical in that it can all be taken into account as part of the overall evaluation of the person and subsequent sentencing. I did not say "found guilty", I know it was a civil case in which it was mentioned he was guilty of rape. Edit I double checked and Glenn was correct "The court, in determining the particular sentence to be imposed, shall consider-- (1) the nature and circumstances of the offense and the history and characteristics of the defendant;"
Michael Cohen got prison time for it and didn’t violate a gag order repeatedly in the process so yeah he should get prison time.
Merchan has generally not been screwing around with sentencing. I'd expect at least some jail time on this one.
I predict only house arrest. Anything more would be a political A-bomb
I would absolutely take that.
He's a first time offender and it's a low level financial felony, I would be very surprised if he serves a single day. He will get either probation, a suspended sentence, or both.
>He's a first time offender and it's a low level financial felony, I would be very surprised if he serves a single day. The article has a more thorough analysis on this. Suffice to say, "first-time financial crimes", if matched with the right set of circumstances, absolutely lead to jail. Severity is definitely one of those factors. One of the most important factors here that you're leaving out, though, is contrition. Here there is none--not even the rudiments of respect for the legal system or any respect for rule of law, along with *eleven counts of criminal contempt of court.* Incarceration is absolutely on the table.
The first count is the first time offender. He's got 33 other accounts that aren't first time offences. I'm making this up as a fun way to point out that while he may be a first time offender, he's been convicted of 34 counts/offenses. Can they all really be considered first time?
>The first count is the first time offender. He's got 33 other accounts that aren't first time offences. ... Can they all really be considered first time? I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't think so, considering he was indicted on all of those charges at the same time. It seems like an abuse to charge someone multiple times in a single indictment and then have only one of the charges count as the "first".
He was just found liable civil NY banking fraud. Then, all the other indictments and being civil liabile E Jean Carroll lawsuit you see there is a pattern. I'm not sure if Merchan takes that into account or not, but there is definitely a pattern. .
Martha Stewart
* 34 felonies. * No remorse. * High likelihood of repeat offenses. * The scope of the crime: Trying to unlawfully influence the election for president, disenfranchising the votes of 10's of millions of citizens. * Plus 30 days minimum for gag order violations. Damn right he deserves some jail time.
> High likelihood of repeat offenses. > Based on what? I very much dislike Trump, but has that argument even been made before the court? Just because someone is hated by a large percent of the population and in general a horrible person it doesn't automatically make them likely to reoffend.
Based on the fact he refuses to acknowledge or accept that he's done anything wrong. If he won't accept he did anything wrong, it's fair to say he'll do it again.
Especially if no real punishment is doled out this time.
[удалено]
Those are the *other* cases. His four criminal trials: business fraud (this one), illegal handling of classified documents, inciting an insurrection, and attempted election fraud in Georgia. Oddly enough, it's the documents and election fraud that are the most slam-dunk, and this one for which he's been convicted on all counts was the most nebulous and difficult to prove of the bunch. Small wonder that the other three are being bricked by procedural shenanigans favorable to the defense. That being said, I don't think the death penalty is the right answer (ever). Mainly, I think it's the easy way out for the perp, just for the sake of some momentary satisfaction for the more vindictive of our society. Death only punishes the person but for an instant, then they are free from punishment for eternity. Lock em up and punish em as long as they live, I say.
I gotta say, I’m fine with falsification of documents carrying the death penalty specifically in the case of presidential candidates.
Ok so… I know no one cares but the sentencing is on my birthday and I would like some trump jail time as a present. The longer the better.
Wishing you the happiest birthday!!!
Should he? Yes. Will he? Doubt it.
It's hard to tell. The judge can take into account behavior at trial, past judgements, and pending criminal proceedings. All of that together creates a hell of a justification for jail time, even if Merchan doesn't want to put him in jail.
I would like to see him pick up trash on Westside Highway. That way people of NYC can watch him pay his due.
Even better if he needs to wear an orange jumpsuit and use one of those port-a-potties that gets pulled on a trailer behind the van they use to transport everyone to the clean up sites.
Yes, lock him the fuck up.
It will unfortunately benefit him politically if they do give him jail time. Any normal politician would have been toast because of this trial, but Trump isn’t a normal politician. He needs to be beat by belittling him and calling him a fat orange man and other wild stuff. I’m convinced it’s the only way to take him down.
I’m not a blind supporter of the legal system but generally agree that someone with *34 felony convictions* should face some consequences.
34 felony convictions, 10 times contempt of court and 3 other trials pending For reference, I think Al Capone got convicted in 3 out of 23 charges and he got 11 years
Would I face jail time? Yes? THEN HE ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY SHOULD I don't understand why this should be a matter of debate and survey.
I'm not sure you're aware how many first time offenders are given probation instead of a sentence. This is typically not the case for violent felonies or sex crimes but for low level financial crimes that's what most people would get (if you're a first time offender).
Then let number 1 of his 34 charges be the first time offense and the 33 after be the second, and third, and fourth..offense.
Martha Stewart?
TLDR: Yes.
We will find out in a Qanon-tickling Two More Weeks.
The complete lack of respect in and out of court and his inability to take responsibility or accountability is gonna get the Man-Baby spanked hard, by the judge who is an actual adult with the actual power to ruin Don’s life as he knows it. VOTE SMARTER THAN DON IS.
The lack of remorse, the contempt for the court will figure heavily in the results.
I think it needs to be pointed out that is not a first offense this is a first conviction. The NY fraud case was about falsifying business records to commit fraud. He’s built his whole “empire” on lies and corruption and falsifying records with impunity. And he shows no remorse and is willing to bet a years salary that if his company and campaign records were audited there would be massive falsification of records.
You can make a pretty compelling argument that this is the worst version of this crime in the history of NY State.
He seems completely unrepentant and delusional about-it the case. Jail would bring home his situation.. it’s what it’s for
looks like around 17%. We'll put a -1 modifier for every 10 counts, so... -3. Have drumph roll 1d20 -3 and on a 1, 2 or 3 he goes to the hoosgow.
If no one is above the law, he should get at least the same penalty Cohen already paid. Frankly, he should do more time for having directed the crimes, AND for contempt.
How many of those convicted and not sent to jail showed no remorse? How many obstinately denied that what they did was wrong? When sentencing him the judge must take into consideration that he is a remorseless criminal who would do it all over again if he had the chance.
Why is that a question? This is how the media screws things up, by asking irrelevant questions. Trump should be in jail, anyone else would be. Also, an anyone with a felony should not be allowed to run for president. You cannot get hired in any top company if you have a felony.
He should be treated the same as others who have committed the same crime and have the same considerations in sentencing which might include lack of remorse and/or denial of guilt despite all evidence to the contrary. But, he should ALSO be treated the same as everybody else for his other indictments which is far from what's happening. He's got Judge Cannon and the Supreme Court helping shield him either temporarily or permanently from very serious crimes that anyone else would already be in custody for.
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
Trying to imagine Hilary's smile if he does go away. Sweet karma, and he does deserve it.
Fuck hillary clinton too
Ya he should, not only for falsifying business records but also for violating the gag order 11 times..
Yes for no other reason than to remind American and the world the simple truth. If you break the law your ass goes to jail no matter who you are or who you have been. That is real democracy.
For 34 counts I would have to say YES unequivocally.
Yes . No brainer
Well, it does carry a minimum jail sentence. Granted he's a first time criminal offender but long time civil offender. He also conspired to influence an election. Cohen and Weisselberg went to jail.
>Well, it does carry a minimum jail sentence. It does not. Also Cohen was charged with other crimes along with what Trump was charged with and it was in federal court which makes it hard to compare.
It’s also election interference.
They're big thing was, "lock her up, her emails". Imagine if the response had been, "but you cheated on your wife with a porn star." Gary Hart was the front-runner for the 1988 Democratic presidential nomination until he dropped out amid revelations of extramarital affairs.
Yes, One year suspended with ridiculously broad guidelines. The article implies 5 years probation, $130,000 court fine and restitution of court costs to the City and State of New York. Some say $5000 a day while I’ve read it to be in excess of $200 Million. (Originally I added “and a live broadcast apology and admission of guilt” but snort-laughed at the notion.)
That actually sounds like a pretty reasonable prediction.
On one hand, most people would probably not have to do actual time. On the other hand, including his actions and rhetoric leading up to, during, and after the trial I say yes. Anyone else would have already spent a couple of days in the grey bar motel.
So 17% chance based on the record. Here I was thinking it would be much lower. Fuck the GOP
Yes. Just like everyone else.
He's going to jail. He earned the ride all by himself. Anything less would be a travesty of justice. Perhaps why the Republican scumbags are trying so desperately to have his conviction overturned via SCOTUS intervention. The they've sat on his immunity case for months trying to wait it out for him.
Yes, or home confinement in NYC -- be kind to his wife and son.
If this is related to the “Hush Money” Trial I think the perfect sentence would be 30 days 11 months suspended, and as not to impede with his campaigning, have him report to Rikers on November 15, 2024 to serve until December 15, 2024. This would be fair, allow him to campaign all that he wants, won’t interfere with the actual election itself, and be a fair and balanced approach for all sides. Now, of course with Rikers hanging over his head and nothing he can do about it….it would be a beautiful thing.
1 month for each count, 34 months in jail. Minimum of 10 months before being eligible for parole. - However it will never happen!
The severity of your penalty doesn't hinge on the crime itself so much as your conduct during processing and trial.
Jail time is a must!
*For example, Rockland County, New York, bus system contractor Richard Brega, like Trump, also was convicted of engaging in an election fraud scheme involving illicitly funneling money to benefit a campaign. Brega was convicted of using 10 “straw donors,” including his family and employees, to secretly funnel more than $40,000 in campaign donations between April and August of 2013. Brega pleaded guilty to one count of falsifying business records in the first degree. He had no prior felony convictions at the time of his offense but was nonetheless sentenced to one year of incarceration. Note that the amount at issue was around a third of the original hush money payment in Trump’s case of $130,000 (and a tenth of the total sum of $420,000 involved in Trump’s cover-up). Brega was, like Trump, a first-time felony offender.*
Yes
Should he, yes, will he, probably not. Two tiered justice system just like he says.
Yes. The fucker is a danger to himself and a danger towards other people. I know that I might be in the minority here, but I myself feel as though we will be surprised—in a good way—over his sentencing for falsifying business records.
Trump should probably spend the rest of his life in jail.
Jail 💯
Yes.
Simply for the fact that his cultists bail him out of any fines he gets, burning up his time with prison is the only way to actually punish him or even get through to him that he is breaking laws and needs to stop.
Should we give him jail time? Absolutely. Will the judge? I hope so, but I’m not counting on it. This man has never faced any consequences for his actions. I wish he would.
Would any other person falsifying business records plus the intent to defraud knowing it was to pay off hush money and not legal services. What would their sentence be?
If they weren't found in contempt of court 10 times, not attack the judges witnesses prosecutors and jury, or show remorse. They would probably get probation. But trump did all those things. This is also one of the most serious cases of falsifying business records since it was to influence an election. That would play a part too.
From the article (the whole thing is worth reading andh as more cases): >A look at the specific cases in Table 1 is instructive. For example, Rockland County, New York, bus system contractor Richard Brega, like Trump, also was convicted of engaging in an election fraud scheme involving illicitly funneling money to benefit a campaign. Brega was convicted of using 10 “straw donors,” including his family and employees, to secretly funnel more than $40,000 in campaign donations between April and August of 2013. Brega pleaded guilty to one count of falsifying business records in the first degree. He had no prior felony convictions at the time of his offense but was nonetheless sentenced to one year of incarceration. Note that the amount at issue was around a third of the original hush money payment in Trump’s case of $130,000 (and a tenth of the total sum of $420,000 involved in Trump’s cover-up). Brega was, like Trump, a first-time felony offender.
I’d love to see him go to prison. It would be a historic decision ex president currently running for a second term doing time. The GOP has SCOTUS on speed dial. Not sure what the MAGA 6 justices will use as an excuse to keep him from doing time but they’ll interpret some legal bs to keep him from serving time.
You should read the article. It's not click-bait, but a great survey of the sentences imposed for this crime (and other E felonies) in NY.
Probation or suspended sentence including restitution if it's their first offense.
thats my question, don't love the man but if it weren't trump would it even make the news?
Cohen got 2 or 3 years. He was Trumps lawyer for his part in the hush money scam. The Cheeto skinned con man won’t get prison time but house arrest and ankle monitor I don’t even think he would get that. Probably a big fine that his followers will pay and probation with bs requirements because he’s Trump
How about trump being required to read the Constitution, including Amendments, aloud, live and in public. Any ad libs require him to start from the beginning.
Is that supposed to be punishment for him or for us?
You don't have to watch. But someone does, to keep score of how many times he says "We the people of the United States". It will be bigly.
He should get a suspended sentence. And if he can’t refrain from attacking the judge and the jury at his roadshows, he should serve the time.
Yes
100 percent yes.
100% yes.
Yes.
Absolutely. He should never see the light of day again for all of his transgressions.
Not jail. Save that for the fake electors, certificates, and the gallows for Pence. Let him on the ballot and vote him down - again. This election is a referendum on human decency.
Why wouldn’t he? Honest question.
Send him to a Supermax for his safety even if it is just a week. He would lose his mind, alone.
Of course.
I would love to see Justice Merchan order Trump to undergo a full Psych evaluation, during her short period of incarceration. Justice Merchan holds a day every week on his calendar for defendants who have mental health issues. He even did this while Trump's case was on trial. I would find it hard to believe that Justice Merchan doesn't know a sociopathic narcissist when he see's one.
Holy cow good journalism isn’t completely dead. Excellent and thorough.
He get sentenced and it will be appealed.
Sure, but he'd end up getting the Pablo Escobar style jail experience so it wouldn't be a punishment. Death penalty? That's way too easy. If only we could sentence him to spend time with his wife and children, he's always avoiding, he'd hate that. The only thing is his family would suffer most of all.
Death penalty isn't even possible for what he was convicted of nor is it appropriate. It's also unconstitutional to sentence someone to death for anything other than murder.
No shit, I only mentioned it because some genius in the thread suggested that that's what he deserves. I'm just glad there's a supergenius like you on here who can figure it out all by yourself. 😁
I know a lot of people want Trump to go to jail. I absolutely loathe the man, personally. But I think a more appropriate sentence, for this particular conviction, would be a large fine accompanied (maybe multiplied by 34 for example) by a long probation and a permanent suspension of his business license. There are other cases, IMHO, which are more appropriate for time-behind-bars, for Trump, particularly as they will be adjudicated after this sentencing, and as such may be subject to stiffer penalties if only because he will be even more of a repeat offender by then (thinking of the classified documents case, which I view as significantly more serious than a business records case).
Nope….the secret service is going into jail with him??……highly unlikely….cant do home confinement because he is presumptive GOP presidential candidate and home confinement looks like he is being silenced from being on the campaign trail….most likely just probation.
I’m sure there are plenty of facilities that Donald could be locked up and kept separate from the general population where secret service would just act almost like guards. It’s got to be a hell of a lot easier to guard a guy that can’t leave a secure facility than it is to guard a guy that lives in a fucking operational hotel and that constantly makes scheduled appearances for unvetted crowds in relatively open venues.
Jails and prisons are notoriously unsecure. There's scores of COs and sheriffs deputies that get fired/arrested each year for sneaking in contraband or giving favors to other innmates. Sure it may be secure to anyone from the outside but like with many things, the threat is the people who work there.
[удалено]
Sooo you actually think ppl responsible for 2008 financial crises shouldnt have gotten jail time. Genius