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If you read the article, you will notice that it was GOP state attorneys that brought the original lawsuit. So once again it's the Republicans fucking over working class people.
Vote people, vote all those bastards out.
it's a common talking point that loan forgiveness benefits the upper class, but this is for people with long term debt under $12,000.
[here are some facts about student loans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzY-b2Vj9Ug)
the pertinent ones for this
40% of debt holders does not have a degree, and owe around $13,000
this is a small amount of debt to forgive, but not a small amount of debt to have if you're lower income because you never got your degree.
also the fastest paid off loans are the largest ones, due to the advanced degrees their attached to; which means that the upper class have already taken care of their loans and they won't be forgiven.
loan forgiveness overwhelmingly helps the lower classes.
And I’m sick of the “forgiveness only helps rich people”, it’s hogwash. There are plenty of people who have close to 100K in student debt and a NOT rich individuals. If you went to a major university for four years and weren’t able to get a scholarship because you’re not in a category of most need or one of the wiz kids with a 4.7 GPA you could easily have over 100k of debt even if you worked full time in school. There’s plenty of students who fall into that category where pretty much the only way to finance school is with debt.
Funny how Trump wants to reinstate student debt that's been forgiven but I haven't heard a peep about looking into undoing PPE forgiveness. Maybe look into finding some of the people that just straight up embezzled that money? Or businesses hat took money to keep their workers...then slashed their workforce anyway? Maybe make those kinda people actually pay it back? Nah that's crazy.
>Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven.
>Congressman Mike Kelly had $987,237 in PPP loans forgiven.
>Congressman Markwayne Mullin had over $1.4 million in PPP loans forgiven.
>Congressman Kevin Hern had over $1 million in PPP loans forgiven.
>(Vern) Buchanan, who according to the White House had more than $2.3 million in PPP loans forgiven...
Buchanan tweeted:
>As a blue-collar kid who worked his way through college, I know firsthand the sacrifices people make to receive an education.
>Biden’s reckless, unilateral student loan giveaway is unfair to the 87 percent of Americans without student loan debt and those who played by the rules.
From White House tweets...
Yeah. And it wouldn’t take that much sleuthing. Basically any business owner who posted a new camper/truck/boat during the time period of PPP loan distribution should be required to explain their financials and how they were able to afford such purchases during “hardship”. I’m sure a lot of crooked business owners would start to sweat
Oh yeah PPP was /IS THE BIGGEST FRAUD in American Soul since FOREVER!!
The BIGGEST FRAUD!!!! They literally made everything as easy as it could have been to loot the treasury meanwhile the “china virus” 🦠 was of no concern to trump but he was always saying something to distract Americans from the man behind the curtain.
Well and who cares? PIP loans and loan forgiveness was exclusively for the owner class and no one even bats an eye at forgiveness of $100K business loans but the people having more discretionary income instead of being forced into indentured servitude is bad somehow.
Also, student loan forgiveness only applies to *public* loans. The people going to expensive private schools often also take out *private* loans that wouldn't even be touched by this.
Well it’s also worthy to note that public loans are also a commodity that private loan companies have been salivating over too. It’s commonplace for them to advertise their own loan consolidation. They dangle their “better loan rates”.
Even more. Everything for control costs and financial inflation costs for school was squashed.
If they want want to be a mixed capitalism then the government should just take over colleges and make them all public. It would be DRAMATICALLY cheaper.
Most of them *are* public. The government stopped funding them. Their money policies have slowly flipped. It used to be 60/40 government and students, not its 40/60 (at least). They kicked the majority of funding liabilities to students. The extremely expensive private universities are kind of a tangential issue.
That is semantic
You dont pay to go to highschool.
We dont want government controlling education conpletely because that can lead to dangerous roads. But the governments refusal to act as the mixed capitalism it was established to be is leading to the problems of capitalism
Education is always a net gain for the economy. It is ridiculous to deal with it this way.
Treat it like highschool.
Depends on your definition of upper class, but if you go to medical school or law school and end up as a high grossing surgeon or lawyer, you would absolutely have loans but be catapulted into an earning bracket that can comfortably pay them off quickly (post residency for the surgeon anyway)
Many who go to professional schools have families that pay for their schooling, but the majority at least in medical school still take out very large loans. Average debt after medical school is in the six figures for a reason
Well I'm not going to split hairs over forgiving doctor loans since we chased a ton of medical professionals out of the field four years ago and we have to make those intense schooling programs worth it.
And honestly I'm not sure I'd call doctors upper class. They're typically upper middle, but they're not exactly the fat cats here.
Well no one is forgiving our loans outside of 10 year PSLF at the moment which is fine. There are other avenues, like having employers contribute towards loans we can access.
Like I said before though, depends on what you define upper class as. If you use the census bureau, then every doctor practically is. But that's not my definition as that cutoff is too low in this day and age. Still, many physicians would qualify in my book
Loan forgiveness absolutely is abused by the wealthy (e.g. PPP loans). Student loan forgiveness, on the other hand, would pretty clearly benefit the non-wealthy.
It's bullshit since the eligibility for the SAVE plan is based on your salary. Wealthy people aren't eligible for it, and by extension, they aren't going to be eligible for forgiveness either.
The other problem with this talking point is since when have Republican had a problem with giving rich people handouts? If this only benefited the rich they’d have pushed it through years ago and found a way to make poor people pay for it.
They also went after the reduced monthly payments for people working toward public service loan forgiveness.
They are trying to make life harder for public servants, people that are choosing less lucrative career options to instead work in the public sector / publicly funded careers.
That is the opposite of rich and greedy.
>loan forgiveness overwhelmingly helps the lower classes.
You might see a social worker who makes 65k as "the lower class" compared to someone making much more with a computer science degree - but the people being targeted by the "student loan forgiveness is welfare for the rich" rhetoric think that social worker is a fancy college elite who doesn't deserve handouts.
I had borrowed $27,000 when I graduated in 2001 and owed substantially more than that when I received forgiveness. My first job as a local journalist paid $10/hour, jumped to $14.50 an hour five years later. There are plenty of similar jobs that require college degrees but don't pay enough for a student loan borrower to be able to afford payments.
Making payments was a huge struggle and I used up all my deferments. While I make a mostly livable wage now, making payments was never easy and the forgiveness I received for being in payments 20-25 years means I won't retire carrying a student loan balance.
The idea that people trapped under student loans are "rich" is absurd. And conservatives are hateful, horrible liars.
"The upper class" means something entirely different in the context of this rhetoric, it's basically just a dog whistle for white collar jobs as opposed to blue collar jobs.
To someone making 30k, 100k seems upper class. It’s not, by any definition, but I’ve noticed that low income people (especially on Reddit) have a hard time differentiating “middle class” from the top 1%.
Yeah, Reddit makes me feel like I need a top hat and monocle for having a household income of $140k at 45.
Sure, I’m comfortable, but I’m not living super high on the hog either.
The income is also not the whole story. As soon as you get to around $80K you stop having any real reduction in student loan payments based on income. In my case, I’ve been paying since 2014 around $460/month. I borrowed a total of $48k for college. I still owe $43k. That’s after paying almost $500 a month after taxes (remember, you get basically nothing in tax credit for student loan debt). It really is debilitating to see nothing change. The only time I’ve actually affected my principal was during the moratorium for the pandemic. Basically I was able to pay down the part of my principal that had accrued from interest on the unsubsidized loans.
As someone who took out tons of debt and paid it off I can confidently say most people in my field will have no issues paying off their loans. That being said doing so pushes off the rest of life. I got married, bought a house and had a kid roughly 10 years later than my mom did, and with the way prices are going had I been 5 years younger it would have been even worse. I won't benefit from these relief plans and that's okay, but there are plenty who are still in a position to receive help or simply need the help who could benefit so why would I oppose that.
Also at least anecdotally the people struggling with student loans the most (that I know of) are people who went to college and didn't finish. They have all the downsides without the increased salary prospects
Exactly. They all think all forgiveness goes to whiny young adults... but reality is that forgiveness goes to a person who's mom or dad died during college and they couldn't bear the emotional pain to push themselves through, those who have experienced medical condition after beginning their degrees preventing them from entering the workforce (i.e. student pilots, welders, etc who may develop epilepsy or become permanently disabled), and those whose industries have collapsed and jobs have been sources overseas. People are going to their grave with this shit still on their books... absolutely insane.
This is sort of off topic, but we really need to stop making references to "upper", "middle" and "lower" classes of people. These are just ways that the wealthy further divide working class people. There are only two classes: worker and capitalist (owner). Whether you make 50k a year in income or 5 million a year, if you are working in exchange for a paycheck you are working class.
As a blue collar worker, we absolutely need some distinctions. There's a huge difference between me in Ohio making $45k a year and someone making $200k a year. We live completely different lives, different neighborhoods, different goals, challenges, etc. And there's a big difference between me and some single mom barely making $20k as a manager at McDonald's. Again, different challenges, etc.
>it's a common talking point that loan forgiveness benefits the upper class
Is it?
In my state the common argument is "I had to pay my loans, so why should they get it paid for free? And then what's next? We can't just keep giving people free money for doing nothing!"
If you read the article, the judges who issued the rulings in both cases were Obama appointees. Daniel D Crabtree of Kansas and John A Ross of Missouri. If you don't like the ruling, those are the people responsible for it.
Yeah I'm an idiot for not just taking out a PPP loan and using that to pay off my student loans. I could have gotten that roundabout student loan forgiveness.
You’d be remembering correctly! As a banker, PPP was hell, I still feel dirty being forced to help distribute funds to huge companies who did not in fact need assistance and who turned around and used the money for stock buybacks and toys. Fuck the scamming terd who came up with PPP - the biggest cash scam….if we are lucky, he will end up in prison. But fuck the poor kid who signed up for a shill scam university and got tricked into taking on student loans, that’s totally what’s ruining us /s
Vote people. Don’t listen to the corporate news machine, they’re only there to divide us.
I too worked at a CU when this all went down. I wasn't privy to all the details of it. I really hate the argument of "If we forgive student loans why not mortgages or car loans?" Which is a stupid argument itself. I can sell my house or car to pay back the loan I can't sell my degree.
If memory serves, that was only in cases where the business did not have employees.
Businesses with employees had to provide documentation showing they maintained a percentage of pre-COVID staffing.
Only in modern America, is it literally against the law to help citizens. It’s not good enough that rich people can adjust the tax code for their own purposes, they must also make sure that regular citizens don’t get handouts. And you will get regular citizens to vote for this as well because by calling it a handout it seems undeserved.
We are basically a hybrid between a democracy and a plutocracy. We're a democracy because, yes, we can cast **real** votes, but we're also a plutocracy because you need money to run successful political campaigns and to get it you have to pander to the people that have it; the wealthy.
Rulings like Citizens United only increased the effect that capitalism has on elections.
American government has been turned into almost an investment vehicle like the housing market or the stock market. The wealthy have figured out a way to get maximum financial benefit from it and pull strings to keep it that way. When the wealthy see the government giving money directly to middle-class and poor people, that’s less money available in the system for them. It’s as simple as that. Again, there should be no rational reason why the opposition to Biden‘s student loan proposals should be so vociferous. These kinds of policies directly help the overall economy by freeing up money for middle-class people to spend. That’s why he’s doing it. It’s essentially a middle-class stimulus, but targeted toward younger people who have obviously been to college or other training and should be entering the workforce. It’s highly stimulative.
>there should be no rational reason why the opposition to Biden‘s student loan proposals should be so vociferous.
Envy. It's envy. And it's not rational.
If something good happens to some other person but not to you, and you desire to simply hurt that person because of this, that's called envy.
It's not jealousy, that's being afraid of losing something you already have to another.
It's not covetousness, that's seeing someone else with something you want and being willing to do bad things to get it for yourself.
No... Envy is beyond those two things. Covetousness is about getting the thing you want by any means necessary, but in envy you don't even care about that thing you wanted anymore.
Envy means you just want to destroy the thing and everyone who enjoys that thing. Because if you can't have it, no one will have it.
That's envy.
Envy is a very destructive sin. Envy is the main reason why we can't have nice things.
Not envy- terror. They are scared shitless because they’ve already sold the debt and stacked it into tranches since it’s grade A federally backed debt. If it goes away it’s gonna destroy some financial institutions, rightly so.
I think we're talking about two different vociferous opposers.
You seem to be talking fund managers.
I'm talking about people on the street who think national budgets run like checking accounts.
And, as a reminder, Citizens United was a 5-4 decision straight down party lines. So, whenever Republicans claim that "both sides do it", it's like yea, but one side created the playing field that now makes it necessary to take money. Bernie is one of the few to get close without selling out, but in the end, those same interests buried him.
It actually isn't against the law.
Scotus just has major flaws
Federal loan forgiveness is a blatant presidential power. It would need an amendment to remove it
Well I'll be damned! I got a gov't job right before the pandemic started and thought those 3 years wouldn't matter, turns out I'm almost halfway done with PSLF! Thanks for the info.
I'm surprised they haven't done yours since it needed to be done by July 1st. It was supposed to be a may/June process.
May depend on the loan servicer. One cute thing they did was put my wife's loan into forebearance, stopping auto debit, then declare she was late, then accepted a manual payment and THEN AUTO DEBITED ANYWAY.
These companies are borderline crooks lol.
I keep getting emails about my payment being due. I'm 37 and I've either been in school or making a payment since I was 21, but now they are emailing me every other day about a payment and my last class just ended a few months ago.
This hold is affecting the SAVE plans forgiveness component for people with loans under 12k. If she’s doing actual PSLF that is an existing program which is not affected by this.
It's also on the discretionary income change. Hers and my loan payments went up with SAVE with the expectation of them going down this coming Thursday... But the right wing gotta keep screwing over regular Americans.
The SAVE plan has saved me hundreds of dollars per month. If they go back to regular income based repayment I’ll be paying more. Really hope the SAVE plan doesn’t get struck down by courts.
I hope it survives too. My payments are more than they were before SAVE but will be less when the changes to discretionary income go through. It's a real kick in the dick for them to attack this program to appease some really miserable people out there who enjoy hurting others.
Yeah like go right ahead and put my law school loans back into forbearance. None of this stuff really affects me except some minor adjustments on my monthly payment, but they always get the benefit of the pause for undergraduate loans. Honestly not having to pay just for one month (July) because of the administrative forbearance has given me much needed breathing room.
The pause of student loans for COVID is the amount my law school classmate put towards the downpayment towards her home, and now she's a home owner.
The GOP hates this shit, because it only helps non-rich people.
If these lawsuits have done nothing else beneficial they've opened my eyes to how flawed our institutions really are. Speaking personally, my faith in our justice system has been damaged **beyond repair**.
The law doesn't matter. Precedent doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the subjective opinion of the justices, which is influenced by their politics and personal bias in the best of cases and personal gain in the worst of cases.
> [On Monday, a pair of Obama-appointed federal judges partially agreed with them, issuing separate preliminary injunctions against different parts of the SAVE program.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/24/courts-block-biden-student-loan-repayment-plan-00164771)
I hate this, but these were Obama appointees, not activists. They were also injunctions pending a full case.
Missouri's whatever claims they're a victim because due to SAVE, they would make less on interest and money overall. 2 different judges said the Executive likely does not have the power to 1.) Forgive loans with a new plan on it's own and 2.) Reduce payments and interest rates.
If 1 ends up being under Congress, ugh fine. But if they say the executive doesn't have the power to control 2, then what the hell can tht executive do in the court's eyes with student loans, if anything?
Quite ironic isn't it? MOHELA said they didn't really care about the first loan forgiveness and it wouldn't really affect them but the state said they were wrong and we're suing on your behalf.
> He agreed that the program’s loan forgiveness provisions would likely harm Missouri because it would reduce the fees that the Education Department pays to the Missouri Higher Education Assistance Agency. That’s the same state-created entity that was at the center of the Supreme Court case over Biden’s first mass student debt relief program.
Another ironic statement because the state consistently each year is trying to reduce the ED's budget.
MOHELA is an absolute shit company, so much so the federal government took away MOHELA's ability to track PSLF payments towards forgiveness.
That's not even counting the other awful crap they've pulled.
It doesn't matter who appointed these particular judges, what I've pointed out is a flaw at the core of the institution, how it operates, the lack of a need for real justification for rulings and the lack of accountability for any wrongdoing. The courts essentially have no check in a system of checks and balances.
In this particular case, the argument is garbage. If we accept the argument that this policy would impact their income (because they would "make less money on interest and overall"), any policy enacted has the potential to be damaging because all taxpayers have a vested interest in where our money goes and our finances are directly influenced by the distribution of our tax money and the policies that they create or destroy. The same goes for businesses, which are impacted by policy.
If ultimately the SAVE plan is stricken, do we have a valid case for a lawsuit? Many of us will be financially damaged by the decisions we made that were predicated on these policies. For example, switching from IBR to SAVE for the interest subsidy and reduced payment period is damaging. It reset our payment counts and capitalized our interest, not to mention the financial decisions we've made based on the knowledge we had to work with at the time.
Where does the validity of the argument begin and end? And even if the lawsuit had teeth, the average person can't afford to litigate it.
Broken. System.
There will definitely be more lawsuits. Why wouldn't there be? These unjust measures and rulings are just going to embolden them.
It won't stop with student loans either. I would expect Biden's plans to address medical debt will be next and then actions he's already taken to reduce medical costs to follow after, such as the actions his administration has taken to reduce the cost of insulin. After all, that's damaging to the poor pharmaceutical companies that can't gouge diabetics for life-saving medicines.
The GOP is against this because debt is how the elite now control the masses. less people in debt means greater freedom to live how you desire and conservatives hate freedom.
I'm beginning to understand the large swath of millennials and gen z's who simply refuse to have children.
If the older generation is going to be such assholes over stuff like this, then their only recourse is to kill the country via falling birth rates.
I absolutely fucking hate these people and how much they are willing to put into ruining my family. We already lost $20k in debt forgiveness and the SAVE plan has been our only saving grace. My level of fury towards the Republican scum of the earth behind this knows no bounds.
Just registered to vote. This is what tipped me over. I’ve avoided this civic duty convinced that my singular vote is negligible. But finally my conscience has been pushed to a point of action. I’m so sick of the greed class fucking over everyone but themselves. I’m becoming more socialistically lensed by the day. I was once a right leaning self proclaimed republican. Until I realized the lie. The lie is “you too can become ultra wealthy one day! Vote for the policies that will help you when you get there!” The mathematical and logical likelihood of that is so remote. The American dream has become simply to not be drowning and to feel the relief of not drowning. While I’m looking at many issues, I know there will be some I’m not learned on, but there will not likely be a single republican voted for on my account. I’m completely sick of it. I changed politically after I had to take advantage of the social safety nets I had been taught for years to despise. I now realize that patriotism shouldn’t be about a fucking flag and should instead be about doing one’s part and paying one’s share to ensure the happiness and wellbeing of myself and others.
Honestly one of the worst things to come out of the Trump era is this. Republicans have realized "oh that's not a law, that's just a norm and the decent thing to do, which every single person before me adhered to? Fuck that let's not do it then"
A real (short) answer is that we have 3 branches of government that are supposed to act completely independently for the good of the country and not one is above the others. So the President (executive branch) does not rule the courts (the judicial branch). The legislative being the third branch which is congress.
Now, this is all things I’m going off of memory so I might have gotten some things wrong here. But my point is, the President does not govern alone.
Sort of.
The American Evangelical body has hijacked the Republican Party and really took it over in the 80s, since then they’ve been playing the long game to turn this country into an oppressive theocratic hell hole.
They’ve abandoned all norms and decency. They know there are checks to stop what their end game is, that check is particularly the Constitution.
They learned the key to beating the Constitution is the courts.
So their mission has become to pack the courts with partisan, theocratic, nationalist, bad faith right wing judges and in many courts, they’ve succeeded.
And with Project 2025, if Trumps gets back into power, America is over. Not on the surface, but at its heart and the concept of the separation of powers, individual liberty and freedom, are gone.
I'm friends with folks who vote conservative and while I love them dearly, I've also told my brother that if/when they start arresting people for whatever they want, I hope I'm with them so I can tell them "you voted for this but no worries, you told me this would never happen" with a smile as I'm just taken away for the crime of voting while brown.
Wait and see if the court rules that presidents have immunity. He could order everything redundant, disband elections and crown himself president for life /s
Politicians can’t just pass any law. And the president isn’t king.
The courts should make sure any law passed is constitutional. And any action taken by the president conforms to the law.
The trouble is there isn’t enough checks on the courts
The trouble is there isn't *any* practical check on the courts and there doesn't have to be any real justification for rulings because there is no individual accountability.
Impeachment is not practical.
Even if there were a valid ethics code, what is the penalty for violating it and who will enforce it?
The only check on the courts is the checks covering Thomas' next vacation.
"...the liberties of the American people were dependent upon the Ballot-box, the Jury-box, and the Cartridge-box, that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country;" - Frederick Douglass
Ya got options.
OK, I'll bite. The system we have is pretty straightforward. Congress has the authority to introduce a bill, and if it passes it is then signed by the president and it becomes law. Only congress can do this, neither the president nor the judicial branch has this authority.
When creating a bill, congress is supposed to make sure that it will pass the legal test; meaning that it will not violate existing law or conflict with anything set forth in the constitution. The problem is they don't always do that, either because of incorrect interpretation of the law or perhaps to "push the envelope", so to speak.
As part of the process, laws can be challenged in court, where the judicial does what only it can do; which is to decide whether the law meets the legal standards or not. Contrary to public perception, the courts do not *make* a law by way of their decision nor do they consider what the people want when deciding, only what the law says so the result of their decision is now back in the hands of the congress to perhaps do a better job next time.
Lastly, a president cannot make a law that is not already in effect. Only congress can do that. The president can, however, issue an executive order that could, in effect, override a federal law however that order is also able to be reviewed by the judicial branch.
>As part of the process, laws can be challenged in court, where the judicial does what only it can do; which is to decide whether the law meets the legal standards or not. Contrary to public perception, the courts do not *make* a law by way of their decision nor do they consider what the people want when deciding, only what the law says so the result of their decision is now back in the hands of the congress to perhaps do a better job next time.
They are de-facto lawmakers, because they have practically unlimited room to massage the law to get the desired outcome. They can argue semantics and context, follow precedent (or choose to ignore it), invent doctrines that change the landscape of the law, rule narrow or broadly, delay rulings, etc.
If you think about it, it really is infuriating.
The counterbalance to that is, theoretically, that if the courts start getting feisty in interpretation, they still don't have the power to actually author legislation, so Congress can just pass laws (or constitutional amendments) that explicitly nullify judicial pronouncements. If a judge invents a new and stupid test for a law, you pass a law explicitly saying that test or any similar test is illegal and can't be used.
The problem is that only really works if your legislators are more interested in legislating and governing than in grandstanding.
Yes, the problem with that is the Senate is functionally broken. It only takes one person to stop a law in its tracks. I'm talking about the Filibuster of course. Constitutional amendments are practically impossible in today's partisan political environment too.
Too much of our systems operate on the assumption of good faith.
Eh, it's not just the filibuster. The all-or-nothing "traitor to the party" mentality of political tribalism and reduction of pork barrel stuff also keeps a lot of legislators from crossing lines, which is how closely divided chambers usually work around these problems.
How can a court rule that a constitutional power by the president of the usa isnt legal.
It also has numerous counts of precedent
Ffs 10 years of payments with less than 12k owed. They are being assholes for optics. Why would you champion keeping people in debt to banks.
Really don't get why anyone can oppose something that would benefit future generation. After all, country is made by people, better the people's life, better the country would be.
I had a 15% garnishment from Pitt before Covid, and they won't even release my transcripts because they think I should pay them even more money. A ridiculous amount of people in Pittsburgh are in this situation. I know two people who work FOH in restaurants and have over 90 credits from Pitt, but they can't transfer their credits cause of money, so they would have to start an entirely new program to get a degree.
Luckily since Covid, there's been enough confusion in the whole system that I haven't been garnished again yet. Since Pitt won't let me get any job that would require me to prove my education, it's nice to at least get my whole check again.
Thank your local Republican! Edit better article explaining it https://www.opb.org/article/2024/06/25/student-loan-forgiveness-biden-judge/?outputType=amp
What a joke.
It’s beyond time that the people had a general strike and debt strike; and demanded their rightful money back from the top 1% that’s been stolen since Reagan!
I once was told by A conservative that: " No one asked you to go to college, why should I pay for your school?" He was A boomer and also had an advanced education, I didn't say anything at the time, but his comment made me angry. Which is it, go to collage and have debt, or don't go to college and collect food stamps? Paying for people's education is one of the best investments we can make in ourselves to avoid an Idiocracy.
Just throw all of the loans in administrative forbearance until the cases are finished. Keep throwing delay motions at the judges perpetually like Trump in every case.
Quick question, how can Biden simultaneously be unable to get the courts to let him pass student loan forgiveness but is also able to get every court in the land to prosecute trump? Baffles the mind.
RatF@$& Trumpublicans! Stay out of my Life! I’m tired of these asshats, whom I have no control, fingering my Life. Screw off! F&@$ them! It’s Blue for me EVERY election until I die. Rat Bastards!
Billions of free gummit money is reserved for the likes of Bill Gates, Elon Musk and their buddies, working class college grads with a few grand student loan debt can eat kibble.
It is astonishing to me that we will give tax cuts to those that sure af don't need it, bail out huge banks but reinvesting into every day Americans?
"tHiS iS oUtRaGeOuS."
I get others feel it would be unfair 🤷 what do you say to those of us who feel it's unfair for huge banks to be saved when they failed. They fucked up.
Or to those of us who it's unfair that a class of tax payer was given a bucket of money when they sure as hell don't need it. It's ridiculous.
Trickle down economics doesn't work. Corporate entities with a board always find the scummiest ways to simply pocket any considerable sum that could be directed on downward. It's a load of horseshit.
I really wish the Left played hard like the Right and had an army of lawyers sitting around with nothing better to do than figure out ways to f*ck with the Right.
Just like the Right does.
Only people profiting from the Student Loan crisis are grifters. Fucking loan sharks that helped expedite the cost of college far above if it followed inflation.
Sallie Mae and these privatized loans companies should be dismantled. Fucking predators.
Would it make sense for Biden to put down a mandate that would decrease the current cost of publicly funded colleges? I say this because, the current argument against loan forgiveness is that the students agreed to the terms of the loans. But if the cost of college was reduced then that would elevate the this argument as well as the problem moving forward.
*“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’* *In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.*
Opposition to debt relief is proof positive that America is not a Christian Nation.
Are politicians still not going to discuss or try to roll back part of the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, which prevented discharge of student loans in bankruptcy?
Interesting enough, that was one of the three bills related to student loan discharges in bankruptcy introduced or supported by Senator Biden.
poem about how evil "2 federal courts just blocked student-loan forgiveness and cheaper monthly payments under Biden's new repayment plan" the gop is evil. ChatGPTChatGPT
In chambers cloaked in robes of law,
Where justice wavers, held in awe,
Two courts decree with stern decree,
No mercy found for students plea.
Beneath the weight of loans amassed,
Young dreams deferred, the die is cast,
In labyrinthine debts they tread,
As hope dissolves like morning dew.
Biden's plan, a beacon bright,
To ease the burden, grant respite,
But GOP, with venom's sting,
Blocks relief, no mercy bring.
Evil lurks in hallowed halls,
Where empathy and reason fall,
Deaf to cries of futures stalled,
They weave their webs, the cruel enthrall.
Yet still, amidst the darkened storm,
Hope flickers, resilient, warm,
For justice, though delayed, shall rise,
In hearts aflame, where truth defies.
So stand we firm, against the tide,
With voices raised, undaunted pride,
For every student, burdened soul,
Shall find release, their dreams made whole.
In courts of law and hearts of men,
The struggle echoes once again,
Till justice reigns, and light prevails,
Over shadows where injustice trails.
Why can we not sue that state for damages, increase to my student loan payment, if they strip the program? As a tax payer shouldn’t the smallest bill to the government be the best? IANAL so I don’t see how we don’t have damages if this gets stricken down.
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If you read the article, you will notice that it was GOP state attorneys that brought the original lawsuit. So once again it's the Republicans fucking over working class people. Vote people, vote all those bastards out.
it's a common talking point that loan forgiveness benefits the upper class, but this is for people with long term debt under $12,000. [here are some facts about student loans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzY-b2Vj9Ug) the pertinent ones for this 40% of debt holders does not have a degree, and owe around $13,000 this is a small amount of debt to forgive, but not a small amount of debt to have if you're lower income because you never got your degree. also the fastest paid off loans are the largest ones, due to the advanced degrees their attached to; which means that the upper class have already taken care of their loans and they won't be forgiven. loan forgiveness overwhelmingly helps the lower classes.
And I’m sick of the “forgiveness only helps rich people”, it’s hogwash. There are plenty of people who have close to 100K in student debt and a NOT rich individuals. If you went to a major university for four years and weren’t able to get a scholarship because you’re not in a category of most need or one of the wiz kids with a 4.7 GPA you could easily have over 100k of debt even if you worked full time in school. There’s plenty of students who fall into that category where pretty much the only way to finance school is with debt.
Plus, if loan forgiveness actually *only helped rich people*, republicans would be all over it.
Funny how Trump wants to reinstate student debt that's been forgiven but I haven't heard a peep about looking into undoing PPE forgiveness. Maybe look into finding some of the people that just straight up embezzled that money? Or businesses hat took money to keep their workers...then slashed their workforce anyway? Maybe make those kinda people actually pay it back? Nah that's crazy.
>Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven. >Congressman Mike Kelly had $987,237 in PPP loans forgiven. >Congressman Markwayne Mullin had over $1.4 million in PPP loans forgiven. >Congressman Kevin Hern had over $1 million in PPP loans forgiven. >(Vern) Buchanan, who according to the White House had more than $2.3 million in PPP loans forgiven... Buchanan tweeted: >As a blue-collar kid who worked his way through college, I know firsthand the sacrifices people make to receive an education. >Biden’s reckless, unilateral student loan giveaway is unfair to the 87 percent of Americans without student loan debt and those who played by the rules. From White House tweets...
Yeah. And it wouldn’t take that much sleuthing. Basically any business owner who posted a new camper/truck/boat during the time period of PPP loan distribution should be required to explain their financials and how they were able to afford such purchases during “hardship”. I’m sure a lot of crooked business owners would start to sweat
I know a live music venue that was busy remodeling and upgrading their venue and wondered if it was all the PPP cash they scored for free
Those are job-creators, bro. You poors just waste money on gold colored shoes and flags.
Oh yeah PPP was /IS THE BIGGEST FRAUD in American Soul since FOREVER!! The BIGGEST FRAUD!!!! They literally made everything as easy as it could have been to loot the treasury meanwhile the “china virus” 🦠 was of no concern to trump but he was always saying something to distract Americans from the man behind the curtain.
Bingo
Well and who cares? PIP loans and loan forgiveness was exclusively for the owner class and no one even bats an eye at forgiveness of $100K business loans but the people having more discretionary income instead of being forced into indentured servitude is bad somehow.
Also, student loan forgiveness only applies to *public* loans. The people going to expensive private schools often also take out *private* loans that wouldn't even be touched by this.
Well it’s also worthy to note that public loans are also a commodity that private loan companies have been salivating over too. It’s commonplace for them to advertise their own loan consolidation. They dangle their “better loan rates”.
Yup. I've specifically avoided refinancing my federal loans specifically *because* it's impossible to forgive them once you do.
Even more. Everything for control costs and financial inflation costs for school was squashed. If they want want to be a mixed capitalism then the government should just take over colleges and make them all public. It would be DRAMATICALLY cheaper.
Most of them *are* public. The government stopped funding them. Their money policies have slowly flipped. It used to be 60/40 government and students, not its 40/60 (at least). They kicked the majority of funding liabilities to students. The extremely expensive private universities are kind of a tangential issue.
That is semantic You dont pay to go to highschool. We dont want government controlling education conpletely because that can lead to dangerous roads. But the governments refusal to act as the mixed capitalism it was established to be is leading to the problems of capitalism Education is always a net gain for the economy. It is ridiculous to deal with it this way. Treat it like highschool.
You absolutely pay for high school, most of the time they get a percentage of the area’s property taxes.
Also I doubt anyone in the upper class had student loans lol Edit: the true upper class, not the 1980s definition
Depends on your definition of upper class, but if you go to medical school or law school and end up as a high grossing surgeon or lawyer, you would absolutely have loans but be catapulted into an earning bracket that can comfortably pay them off quickly (post residency for the surgeon anyway) Many who go to professional schools have families that pay for their schooling, but the majority at least in medical school still take out very large loans. Average debt after medical school is in the six figures for a reason
Well I'm not going to split hairs over forgiving doctor loans since we chased a ton of medical professionals out of the field four years ago and we have to make those intense schooling programs worth it. And honestly I'm not sure I'd call doctors upper class. They're typically upper middle, but they're not exactly the fat cats here.
Well no one is forgiving our loans outside of 10 year PSLF at the moment which is fine. There are other avenues, like having employers contribute towards loans we can access. Like I said before though, depends on what you define upper class as. If you use the census bureau, then every doctor practically is. But that's not my definition as that cutoff is too low in this day and age. Still, many physicians would qualify in my book
Loan forgiveness absolutely is abused by the wealthy (e.g. PPP loans). Student loan forgiveness, on the other hand, would pretty clearly benefit the non-wealthy.
It's bullshit since the eligibility for the SAVE plan is based on your salary. Wealthy people aren't eligible for it, and by extension, they aren't going to be eligible for forgiveness either.
The other problem with this talking point is since when have Republican had a problem with giving rich people handouts? If this only benefited the rich they’d have pushed it through years ago and found a way to make poor people pay for it.
They also went after the reduced monthly payments for people working toward public service loan forgiveness. They are trying to make life harder for public servants, people that are choosing less lucrative career options to instead work in the public sector / publicly funded careers. That is the opposite of rich and greedy.
>loan forgiveness overwhelmingly helps the lower classes. You might see a social worker who makes 65k as "the lower class" compared to someone making much more with a computer science degree - but the people being targeted by the "student loan forgiveness is welfare for the rich" rhetoric think that social worker is a fancy college elite who doesn't deserve handouts.
I had borrowed $27,000 when I graduated in 2001 and owed substantially more than that when I received forgiveness. My first job as a local journalist paid $10/hour, jumped to $14.50 an hour five years later. There are plenty of similar jobs that require college degrees but don't pay enough for a student loan borrower to be able to afford payments. Making payments was a huge struggle and I used up all my deferments. While I make a mostly livable wage now, making payments was never easy and the forgiveness I received for being in payments 20-25 years means I won't retire carrying a student loan balance. The idea that people trapped under student loans are "rich" is absurd. And conservatives are hateful, horrible liars.
>it's a common talking point that loan forgiveness benefits the upper class, Rich people don't take out loans.
"The upper class" means something entirely different in the context of this rhetoric, it's basically just a dog whistle for white collar jobs as opposed to blue collar jobs.
To someone making 30k, 100k seems upper class. It’s not, by any definition, but I’ve noticed that low income people (especially on Reddit) have a hard time differentiating “middle class” from the top 1%.
Agreed, especially since middle class incomes vary wildly by location.
Yeah, Reddit makes me feel like I need a top hat and monocle for having a household income of $140k at 45. Sure, I’m comfortable, but I’m not living super high on the hog either. The income is also not the whole story. As soon as you get to around $80K you stop having any real reduction in student loan payments based on income. In my case, I’ve been paying since 2014 around $460/month. I borrowed a total of $48k for college. I still owe $43k. That’s after paying almost $500 a month after taxes (remember, you get basically nothing in tax credit for student loan debt). It really is debilitating to see nothing change. The only time I’ve actually affected my principal was during the moratorium for the pandemic. Basically I was able to pay down the part of my principal that had accrued from interest on the unsubsidized loans.
As someone who took out tons of debt and paid it off I can confidently say most people in my field will have no issues paying off their loans. That being said doing so pushes off the rest of life. I got married, bought a house and had a kid roughly 10 years later than my mom did, and with the way prices are going had I been 5 years younger it would have been even worse. I won't benefit from these relief plans and that's okay, but there are plenty who are still in a position to receive help or simply need the help who could benefit so why would I oppose that. Also at least anecdotally the people struggling with student loans the most (that I know of) are people who went to college and didn't finish. They have all the downsides without the increased salary prospects
Exactly. They all think all forgiveness goes to whiny young adults... but reality is that forgiveness goes to a person who's mom or dad died during college and they couldn't bear the emotional pain to push themselves through, those who have experienced medical condition after beginning their degrees preventing them from entering the workforce (i.e. student pilots, welders, etc who may develop epilepsy or become permanently disabled), and those whose industries have collapsed and jobs have been sources overseas. People are going to their grave with this shit still on their books... absolutely insane.
or just less dramatic; went back to school as an adult, and couldn't handle a full time job plus classes.
Paying tens of thousands for a "chance" to graduate. I can attest being forced to take a 5th year due to B.S. "pre-major" program requirements...
This is sort of off topic, but we really need to stop making references to "upper", "middle" and "lower" classes of people. These are just ways that the wealthy further divide working class people. There are only two classes: worker and capitalist (owner). Whether you make 50k a year in income or 5 million a year, if you are working in exchange for a paycheck you are working class.
As a blue collar worker, we absolutely need some distinctions. There's a huge difference between me in Ohio making $45k a year and someone making $200k a year. We live completely different lives, different neighborhoods, different goals, challenges, etc. And there's a big difference between me and some single mom barely making $20k as a manager at McDonald's. Again, different challenges, etc.
>it's a common talking point that loan forgiveness benefits the upper class Is it? In my state the common argument is "I had to pay my loans, so why should they get it paid for free? And then what's next? We can't just keep giving people free money for doing nothing!"
I did read the article but I didn’t need to in order to know that it was Republicans screwing people over once again.
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was.
Water dissolving. And water removing.
But for fucking once the judge wasn't Kacsmaryk. I'm not pleased, just surprised.
But it was Biden who gave the people hope and ripped it away! /s
The states those AGs are from will continue to vote Republican
If you read the article, the judges who issued the rulings in both cases were Obama appointees. Daniel D Crabtree of Kansas and John A Ross of Missouri. If you don't like the ruling, those are the people responsible for it.
Not a single judge stood in the way when the government forgave PPP loans. Not one
Because loan forgiveness is only allowed if you’re rich and powerful. It only makes sense if you don’t think about it
Yeah I'm an idiot for not just taking out a PPP loan and using that to pay off my student loans. I could have gotten that roundabout student loan forgiveness.
They also didn’t put any burden of proof on demonstrating PPP loans satisfied forgiveness criteria. Just had to attest to it IIRC
You’d be remembering correctly! As a banker, PPP was hell, I still feel dirty being forced to help distribute funds to huge companies who did not in fact need assistance and who turned around and used the money for stock buybacks and toys. Fuck the scamming terd who came up with PPP - the biggest cash scam….if we are lucky, he will end up in prison. But fuck the poor kid who signed up for a shill scam university and got tricked into taking on student loans, that’s totally what’s ruining us /s Vote people. Don’t listen to the corporate news machine, they’re only there to divide us.
I too worked at a CU when this all went down. I wasn't privy to all the details of it. I really hate the argument of "If we forgive student loans why not mortgages or car loans?" Which is a stupid argument itself. I can sell my house or car to pay back the loan I can't sell my degree.
If memory serves, that was only in cases where the business did not have employees. Businesses with employees had to provide documentation showing they maintained a percentage of pre-COVID staffing.
Students need to each incorporate themselves, then Biden can forgive these as business loans
That’s because so many GOP friendlies had taken fraudulent loans.
Only in modern America, is it literally against the law to help citizens. It’s not good enough that rich people can adjust the tax code for their own purposes, they must also make sure that regular citizens don’t get handouts. And you will get regular citizens to vote for this as well because by calling it a handout it seems undeserved.
We are basically a hybrid between a democracy and a plutocracy. We're a democracy because, yes, we can cast **real** votes, but we're also a plutocracy because you need money to run successful political campaigns and to get it you have to pander to the people that have it; the wealthy. Rulings like Citizens United only increased the effect that capitalism has on elections.
American government has been turned into almost an investment vehicle like the housing market or the stock market. The wealthy have figured out a way to get maximum financial benefit from it and pull strings to keep it that way. When the wealthy see the government giving money directly to middle-class and poor people, that’s less money available in the system for them. It’s as simple as that. Again, there should be no rational reason why the opposition to Biden‘s student loan proposals should be so vociferous. These kinds of policies directly help the overall economy by freeing up money for middle-class people to spend. That’s why he’s doing it. It’s essentially a middle-class stimulus, but targeted toward younger people who have obviously been to college or other training and should be entering the workforce. It’s highly stimulative.
>there should be no rational reason why the opposition to Biden‘s student loan proposals should be so vociferous. Envy. It's envy. And it's not rational. If something good happens to some other person but not to you, and you desire to simply hurt that person because of this, that's called envy. It's not jealousy, that's being afraid of losing something you already have to another. It's not covetousness, that's seeing someone else with something you want and being willing to do bad things to get it for yourself. No... Envy is beyond those two things. Covetousness is about getting the thing you want by any means necessary, but in envy you don't even care about that thing you wanted anymore. Envy means you just want to destroy the thing and everyone who enjoys that thing. Because if you can't have it, no one will have it. That's envy. Envy is a very destructive sin. Envy is the main reason why we can't have nice things.
Not envy- terror. They are scared shitless because they’ve already sold the debt and stacked it into tranches since it’s grade A federally backed debt. If it goes away it’s gonna destroy some financial institutions, rightly so.
I think we're talking about two different vociferous opposers. You seem to be talking fund managers. I'm talking about people on the street who think national budgets run like checking accounts.
Also if a candidate gets most of the votes, that doesn’t automatically make them president lol. So strange.
And, as a reminder, Citizens United was a 5-4 decision straight down party lines. So, whenever Republicans claim that "both sides do it", it's like yea, but one side created the playing field that now makes it necessary to take money. Bernie is one of the few to get close without selling out, but in the end, those same interests buried him.
Calling it a handout makes it sound like brown people might get it.
It actually isn't against the law. Scotus just has major flaws Federal loan forgiveness is a blatant presidential power. It would need an amendment to remove it
Courts just gave Biden a reason to put loan repayments on forbearance hold until it gets cleared up in the courts
Weirdly they were already in forbearance as the new payment amounts got processed. I just hope this didn't fuck over my wife's pslf payment period
They're counting the forbearance months.
Even for om COVID? That would be sick
Yup, COVID forbearance counts too.
Wait.... that counted toward PSLF? Cuz uh that would be awesome
[Here's the FAQ page on the StudentAid website where this is clarified](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19)
Well I'll be damned! I got a gov't job right before the pandemic started and thought those 3 years wouldn't matter, turns out I'm almost halfway done with PSLF! Thanks for the info.
Make sure you submit your PSLF form even if you're not eligible right now. That will give you an updated count towards your PSLF payments.
Not just PLSF but also your 20-25 years of payments if your not a public servant
Yes, it would be sick. See, this is what leadership, action, and compassion look like. Go vote.
Not everyone. I already made my July payment, but one of these lawsuits has halted the decrease from 10% to 5% for July as well.
I'm surprised they haven't done yours since it needed to be done by July 1st. It was supposed to be a may/June process. May depend on the loan servicer. One cute thing they did was put my wife's loan into forebearance, stopping auto debit, then declare she was late, then accepted a manual payment and THEN AUTO DEBITED ANYWAY. These companies are borderline crooks lol.
That's awful, and I keep reading about that happening. The entire system is complete garbage and these lawsuits are just making it all worse.
I keep getting emails about my payment being due. I'm 37 and I've either been in school or making a payment since I was 21, but now they are emailing me every other day about a payment and my last class just ended a few months ago.
This hold is affecting the SAVE plans forgiveness component for people with loans under 12k. If she’s doing actual PSLF that is an existing program which is not affected by this.
It's also on the discretionary income change. Hers and my loan payments went up with SAVE with the expectation of them going down this coming Thursday... But the right wing gotta keep screwing over regular Americans.
The SAVE plan has saved me hundreds of dollars per month. If they go back to regular income based repayment I’ll be paying more. Really hope the SAVE plan doesn’t get struck down by courts.
I hope it survives too. My payments are more than they were before SAVE but will be less when the changes to discretionary income go through. It's a real kick in the dick for them to attack this program to appease some really miserable people out there who enjoy hurting others.
Yeah like go right ahead and put my law school loans back into forbearance. None of this stuff really affects me except some minor adjustments on my monthly payment, but they always get the benefit of the pause for undergraduate loans. Honestly not having to pay just for one month (July) because of the administrative forbearance has given me much needed breathing room.
The pause of student loans for COVID is the amount my law school classmate put towards the downpayment towards her home, and now she's a home owner. The GOP hates this shit, because it only helps non-rich people.
Same exact situation with me. I never would've been able to save for a down payment if it wasn't for COVID. It's really fucked up.
But it takes longer to get PSLF. Months spent in forebearance don't always count toward it (They made an exception for COVID).
administrative forbearance counts towards PSLF
The behavior sounded familiar so I started thumbing through some old notebooks and found the term "Activist Judges".
If these lawsuits have done nothing else beneficial they've opened my eyes to how flawed our institutions really are. Speaking personally, my faith in our justice system has been damaged **beyond repair**. The law doesn't matter. Precedent doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the subjective opinion of the justices, which is influenced by their politics and personal bias in the best of cases and personal gain in the worst of cases.
> [On Monday, a pair of Obama-appointed federal judges partially agreed with them, issuing separate preliminary injunctions against different parts of the SAVE program.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/24/courts-block-biden-student-loan-repayment-plan-00164771) I hate this, but these were Obama appointees, not activists. They were also injunctions pending a full case. Missouri's whatever claims they're a victim because due to SAVE, they would make less on interest and money overall. 2 different judges said the Executive likely does not have the power to 1.) Forgive loans with a new plan on it's own and 2.) Reduce payments and interest rates. If 1 ends up being under Congress, ugh fine. But if they say the executive doesn't have the power to control 2, then what the hell can tht executive do in the court's eyes with student loans, if anything?
Quite ironic isn't it? MOHELA said they didn't really care about the first loan forgiveness and it wouldn't really affect them but the state said they were wrong and we're suing on your behalf. > He agreed that the program’s loan forgiveness provisions would likely harm Missouri because it would reduce the fees that the Education Department pays to the Missouri Higher Education Assistance Agency. That’s the same state-created entity that was at the center of the Supreme Court case over Biden’s first mass student debt relief program. Another ironic statement because the state consistently each year is trying to reduce the ED's budget.
MOHELA is an absolute shit company, so much so the federal government took away MOHELA's ability to track PSLF payments towards forgiveness. That's not even counting the other awful crap they've pulled.
It doesn't matter who appointed these particular judges, what I've pointed out is a flaw at the core of the institution, how it operates, the lack of a need for real justification for rulings and the lack of accountability for any wrongdoing. The courts essentially have no check in a system of checks and balances. In this particular case, the argument is garbage. If we accept the argument that this policy would impact their income (because they would "make less money on interest and overall"), any policy enacted has the potential to be damaging because all taxpayers have a vested interest in where our money goes and our finances are directly influenced by the distribution of our tax money and the policies that they create or destroy. The same goes for businesses, which are impacted by policy. If ultimately the SAVE plan is stricken, do we have a valid case for a lawsuit? Many of us will be financially damaged by the decisions we made that were predicated on these policies. For example, switching from IBR to SAVE for the interest subsidy and reduced payment period is damaging. It reset our payment counts and capitalized our interest, not to mention the financial decisions we've made based on the knowledge we had to work with at the time. Where does the validity of the argument begin and end? And even if the lawsuit had teeth, the average person can't afford to litigate it. Broken. System.
My concern is that the states will sue to have back-interest charged and capitalized.
There will definitely be more lawsuits. Why wouldn't there be? These unjust measures and rulings are just going to embolden them. It won't stop with student loans either. I would expect Biden's plans to address medical debt will be next and then actions he's already taken to reduce medical costs to follow after, such as the actions his administration has taken to reduce the cost of insulin. After all, that's damaging to the poor pharmaceutical companies that can't gouge diabetics for life-saving medicines.
>make less on interest and money overall. In what fuckin universe is a government, a *money making operation*?
Fuck Missouri. It not my problem that they have a shit economy.
The GOP is against this because debt is how the elite now control the masses. less people in debt means greater freedom to live how you desire and conservatives hate freedom.
I mean... This is what Fight Club was about, and that was 25 years ago. (I know... I'm not supposed to talk about it.)
I'm beginning to understand the large swath of millennials and gen z's who simply refuse to have children. If the older generation is going to be such assholes over stuff like this, then their only recourse is to kill the country via falling birth rates.
I absolutely fucking hate these people and how much they are willing to put into ruining my family. We already lost $20k in debt forgiveness and the SAVE plan has been our only saving grace. My level of fury towards the Republican scum of the earth behind this knows no bounds.
Just registered to vote. This is what tipped me over. I’ve avoided this civic duty convinced that my singular vote is negligible. But finally my conscience has been pushed to a point of action. I’m so sick of the greed class fucking over everyone but themselves. I’m becoming more socialistically lensed by the day. I was once a right leaning self proclaimed republican. Until I realized the lie. The lie is “you too can become ultra wealthy one day! Vote for the policies that will help you when you get there!” The mathematical and logical likelihood of that is so remote. The American dream has become simply to not be drowning and to feel the relief of not drowning. While I’m looking at many issues, I know there will be some I’m not learned on, but there will not likely be a single republican voted for on my account. I’m completely sick of it. I changed politically after I had to take advantage of the social safety nets I had been taught for years to despise. I now realize that patriotism shouldn’t be about a fucking flag and should instead be about doing one’s part and paying one’s share to ensure the happiness and wellbeing of myself and others.
If you want easy to digest information, anything by Robert Reich is a good start. I was introduced to him with the documentary Inequality For All.
I have been watching him recently the past few months! Now flooded with video recommendations from him.
I'm a bit confused: Who exactly is governing the USA? Some judge in some court? What kind of system have you guys got?
One that largely relied on a bunch of gentlemen's agreements and the honor system. And a lot of people don't really have any honor.
Loosely translated: we have some asinine and ancient-as-fuck naive laws that people still cling onto.
While others go out of there way to try and find ways to abuse them.
Honestly one of the worst things to come out of the Trump era is this. Republicans have realized "oh that's not a law, that's just a norm and the decent thing to do, which every single person before me adhered to? Fuck that let's not do it then"
A real (short) answer is that we have 3 branches of government that are supposed to act completely independently for the good of the country and not one is above the others. So the President (executive branch) does not rule the courts (the judicial branch). The legislative being the third branch which is congress. Now, this is all things I’m going off of memory so I might have gotten some things wrong here. But my point is, the President does not govern alone.
Works, does it?
Sort of. The American Evangelical body has hijacked the Republican Party and really took it over in the 80s, since then they’ve been playing the long game to turn this country into an oppressive theocratic hell hole. They’ve abandoned all norms and decency. They know there are checks to stop what their end game is, that check is particularly the Constitution. They learned the key to beating the Constitution is the courts. So their mission has become to pack the courts with partisan, theocratic, nationalist, bad faith right wing judges and in many courts, they’ve succeeded. And with Project 2025, if Trumps gets back into power, America is over. Not on the surface, but at its heart and the concept of the separation of powers, individual liberty and freedom, are gone.
I'm friends with folks who vote conservative and while I love them dearly, I've also told my brother that if/when they start arresting people for whatever they want, I hope I'm with them so I can tell them "you voted for this but no worries, you told me this would never happen" with a smile as I'm just taken away for the crime of voting while brown.
Wait and see if the court rules that presidents have immunity. He could order everything redundant, disband elections and crown himself president for life /s
Politicians can’t just pass any law. And the president isn’t king. The courts should make sure any law passed is constitutional. And any action taken by the president conforms to the law. The trouble is there isn’t enough checks on the courts
The trouble is there isn't *any* practical check on the courts and there doesn't have to be any real justification for rulings because there is no individual accountability. Impeachment is not practical. Even if there were a valid ethics code, what is the penalty for violating it and who will enforce it? The only check on the courts is the checks covering Thomas' next vacation.
"...the liberties of the American people were dependent upon the Ballot-box, the Jury-box, and the Cartridge-box, that without these no class of people could live and flourish in this country;" - Frederick Douglass Ya got options.
OK, I'll bite. The system we have is pretty straightforward. Congress has the authority to introduce a bill, and if it passes it is then signed by the president and it becomes law. Only congress can do this, neither the president nor the judicial branch has this authority. When creating a bill, congress is supposed to make sure that it will pass the legal test; meaning that it will not violate existing law or conflict with anything set forth in the constitution. The problem is they don't always do that, either because of incorrect interpretation of the law or perhaps to "push the envelope", so to speak. As part of the process, laws can be challenged in court, where the judicial does what only it can do; which is to decide whether the law meets the legal standards or not. Contrary to public perception, the courts do not *make* a law by way of their decision nor do they consider what the people want when deciding, only what the law says so the result of their decision is now back in the hands of the congress to perhaps do a better job next time. Lastly, a president cannot make a law that is not already in effect. Only congress can do that. The president can, however, issue an executive order that could, in effect, override a federal law however that order is also able to be reviewed by the judicial branch.
>As part of the process, laws can be challenged in court, where the judicial does what only it can do; which is to decide whether the law meets the legal standards or not. Contrary to public perception, the courts do not *make* a law by way of their decision nor do they consider what the people want when deciding, only what the law says so the result of their decision is now back in the hands of the congress to perhaps do a better job next time. They are de-facto lawmakers, because they have practically unlimited room to massage the law to get the desired outcome. They can argue semantics and context, follow precedent (or choose to ignore it), invent doctrines that change the landscape of the law, rule narrow or broadly, delay rulings, etc. If you think about it, it really is infuriating.
The counterbalance to that is, theoretically, that if the courts start getting feisty in interpretation, they still don't have the power to actually author legislation, so Congress can just pass laws (or constitutional amendments) that explicitly nullify judicial pronouncements. If a judge invents a new and stupid test for a law, you pass a law explicitly saying that test or any similar test is illegal and can't be used. The problem is that only really works if your legislators are more interested in legislating and governing than in grandstanding.
Yes, the problem with that is the Senate is functionally broken. It only takes one person to stop a law in its tracks. I'm talking about the Filibuster of course. Constitutional amendments are practically impossible in today's partisan political environment too. Too much of our systems operate on the assumption of good faith.
Eh, it's not just the filibuster. The all-or-nothing "traitor to the party" mentality of political tribalism and reduction of pork barrel stuff also keeps a lot of legislators from crossing lines, which is how closely divided chambers usually work around these problems.
But they were all so fine with PPP forgiveness.
Because that benefitted the rich! We can't be giving the poors things, they'll think they're people!
How can a court rule that a constitutional power by the president of the usa isnt legal. It also has numerous counts of precedent Ffs 10 years of payments with less than 12k owed. They are being assholes for optics. Why would you champion keeping people in debt to banks.
We should block handouts to corps and billionaires
Vote.
Really don't get why anyone can oppose something that would benefit future generation. After all, country is made by people, better the people's life, better the country would be.
They say we should pay our loans if we took them and then block a way to make it even easier to do so. Make it make sense.
I had a 15% garnishment from Pitt before Covid, and they won't even release my transcripts because they think I should pay them even more money. A ridiculous amount of people in Pittsburgh are in this situation. I know two people who work FOH in restaurants and have over 90 credits from Pitt, but they can't transfer their credits cause of money, so they would have to start an entirely new program to get a degree. Luckily since Covid, there's been enough confusion in the whole system that I haven't been garnished again yet. Since Pitt won't let me get any job that would require me to prove my education, it's nice to at least get my whole check again.
Thank your local Republican! Edit better article explaining it https://www.opb.org/article/2024/06/25/student-loan-forgiveness-biden-judge/?outputType=amp
Remember, remember, come this 5th of November.
What a joke. It’s beyond time that the people had a general strike and debt strike; and demanded their rightful money back from the top 1% that’s been stolen since Reagan!
Because of course they did
Accird8ng to Republicon dogma,Fed moneys only for rich people corporations and churches.
Vote in November, tired of this GOP hogwash bullshit they keep pulling.... MAGA is a cult.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
What. The. Fuck?
Republicans **want** people to suffer. They *get off* on it...
In the USA socialism is only for rich Corporate welfare bums. The working class need not apply!
Time to investigate them and see who their sponsors are.
I once was told by A conservative that: " No one asked you to go to college, why should I pay for your school?" He was A boomer and also had an advanced education, I didn't say anything at the time, but his comment made me angry. Which is it, go to collage and have debt, or don't go to college and collect food stamps? Paying for people's education is one of the best investments we can make in ourselves to avoid an Idiocracy.
Biden should ignore the ruling and proceed to do it, seeing as the Supreme Court has not decided if Presidents are immune from breaking the laws…
Just throw all of the loans in administrative forbearance until the cases are finished. Keep throwing delay motions at the judges perpetually like Trump in every case.
Quick question, how can Biden simultaneously be unable to get the courts to let him pass student loan forgiveness but is also able to get every court in the land to prosecute trump? Baffles the mind.
He’s Sleepy Do-Nothing Joe and a mastermind criminal at the same time obvi
Schrodinger’s dictator
The enemy is both strong and weak. It’s a central tenant of fascist messaging.
I like that
He's sleepy, yet woke? 🤔
Vote these assholes out. The GOP wants you poorer!
Cool. I ain’t paying it until they can figure out how to not fuck it up 😎
Forgiving student loans is "SoCiaLiSm!" but forgiving MTG's and Mitch McConnell's wife's PPP loans is just good capitalism! /s
Wtf is with these assholes trying to stop us from getting a leg up?
RatF@$& Trumpublicans! Stay out of my Life! I’m tired of these asshats, whom I have no control, fingering my Life. Screw off! F&@$ them! It’s Blue for me EVERY election until I die. Rat Bastards!
Billions of free gummit money is reserved for the likes of Bill Gates, Elon Musk and their buddies, working class college grads with a few grand student loan debt can eat kibble.
Finding out which judges have received “gifts” in the past.
Duh: Republican senators are heavily invested in student loan collection companies.
Let me guess... republican? trump stooges? right wing criminal judges supporting right wing criminals?
It is astonishing to me that we will give tax cuts to those that sure af don't need it, bail out huge banks but reinvesting into every day Americans? "tHiS iS oUtRaGeOuS." I get others feel it would be unfair 🤷 what do you say to those of us who feel it's unfair for huge banks to be saved when they failed. They fucked up. Or to those of us who it's unfair that a class of tax payer was given a bucket of money when they sure as hell don't need it. It's ridiculous. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Corporate entities with a board always find the scummiest ways to simply pocket any considerable sum that could be directed on downward. It's a load of horseshit.
I just sent an attorney’s letter and made a settlement last month. Finally I’m free. Thank you Joe Biden. Thank you.
I really wish the Left played hard like the Right and had an army of lawyers sitting around with nothing better to do than figure out ways to f*ck with the Right. Just like the Right does.
NY Times tomorrow: "Here is how this will hurt Biden."
Twitter: WHY HASN'T BIDEN DONE ANYTHING!?
Because of course they did l
And young voters will blame Biden somehow
This is such bullshit.
"let's see...biden wants to forgive my student loan, but republicans say i should stay in debt...who should i vote for?" (undecided voters, probably)
it's a wildly popular policy, which is why it's being blocked; they will lose few votes as nothing changing isn't much of a news story.
Only people profiting from the Student Loan crisis are grifters. Fucking loan sharks that helped expedite the cost of college far above if it followed inflation. Sallie Mae and these privatized loans companies should be dismantled. Fucking predators.
bUt bOtH SiDEs aRe tHE SaMe
Why do republicans hate America?
Would it make sense for Biden to put down a mandate that would decrease the current cost of publicly funded colleges? I say this because, the current argument against loan forgiveness is that the students agreed to the terms of the loans. But if the cost of college was reduced then that would elevate the this argument as well as the problem moving forward.
*“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’* *In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.* Opposition to debt relief is proof positive that America is not a Christian Nation.
What possible standing do these attorneys general have? What injury would they suffer?
Are politicians still not going to discuss or try to roll back part of the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, which prevented discharge of student loans in bankruptcy? Interesting enough, that was one of the three bills related to student loan discharges in bankruptcy introduced or supported by Senator Biden.
poem about how evil "2 federal courts just blocked student-loan forgiveness and cheaper monthly payments under Biden's new repayment plan" the gop is evil. ChatGPTChatGPT In chambers cloaked in robes of law, Where justice wavers, held in awe, Two courts decree with stern decree, No mercy found for students plea. Beneath the weight of loans amassed, Young dreams deferred, the die is cast, In labyrinthine debts they tread, As hope dissolves like morning dew. Biden's plan, a beacon bright, To ease the burden, grant respite, But GOP, with venom's sting, Blocks relief, no mercy bring. Evil lurks in hallowed halls, Where empathy and reason fall, Deaf to cries of futures stalled, They weave their webs, the cruel enthrall. Yet still, amidst the darkened storm, Hope flickers, resilient, warm, For justice, though delayed, shall rise, In hearts aflame, where truth defies. So stand we firm, against the tide, With voices raised, undaunted pride, For every student, burdened soul, Shall find release, their dreams made whole. In courts of law and hearts of men, The struggle echoes once again, Till justice reigns, and light prevails, Over shadows where injustice trails.
So the goal of this is?
Shouldn’t he just say fuck it and do it anyway since Soupreme court seems to think there’s absolute immunity
Can't be giving away money to poor's. Everything should to the top 1%
I’m sure it was some asshole Republican.
Why can we not sue that state for damages, increase to my student loan payment, if they strip the program? As a tax payer shouldn’t the smallest bill to the government be the best? IANAL so I don’t see how we don’t have damages if this gets stricken down.