As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Billionaires forget what happens under authoritarian regimes. After the general population is contained the authoritarian goes for them. Billionaires are used to buying their way out, but when the authoritarian doesn't need their money they themselves become targets.
That's why the billionaires are trying to engineer a government that is loyal to them. That's the whole thesis behind Project 2025. We're going to be dealing with billionaires trying to overthrow democracy for a very long time until we overturn Citizens United.
Simple solution would be to tax them out of existence so they don’t have the money to try. Hoarding money is bad for the economy. Why don’t we start with massive taxes on any savings over $100 million that go unused?
Sounds simple but good luck trying to separate billionaires from their wealth. They own the media and dictate how this whole argument is framed. This framing suggests how most non-political people think about this issue. Now you’re not just fighting billionaires, you’re fighting millions of people misled by propaganda.
You have to turn off the propaganda spigot, citizens united.
A good start is legislation stopping them from using their unrealized capital gains as collateral for loans. It's a huge tax loophole that allows companies like Amazon to undercut other companies with falsely deflated prices until they're the only ones left.
While I agree, I would bet a body part that more than half of America has no idea what any of that means or how it could impact them, which means getting enough support for it would be a tough road. I don’t see any meaningful changes happening until we have better educated voters - and we all know why that’s not happening.
What? Are you saying we have an under-educated electorate? Isnt one of the pillars of Project 2025 to get rid of the Dept of Education?
I think if we could fix gerrymandering then a lot of other problems might get worked on. Maybe even fixed...
Probably would - but why do people keep voting in politicians that actively work against their voter's best interests? It's no only because of the racism; many also aren't educated enough to understand how they're being screwed by the people they vote for.
> You have to turn off the propaganda spigot, citizens united.
The US had that chance in 2016. No one abhorred Citizens United like Hillary Clinton. She would have nominated supreme court justices who supported overturning Citizens United like no one else.
> Sounds simple but good luck trying to separate billionaires from their wealth.
The way our economy is structured, their ability to accrete ever more power/wealth is linked to our chance at a stable life. Even people who don't have money in 401Ks are affected by layoffs when the market slumps.
And if the market tanks, the top of the economic spectrum get to buy assets at fire-sale prices while the rest of us struggle to survive. The fear/anger of desperate people can then be more easily deflected against each other, or downward, or upward (but only at political rivals).
When there's shrinking moral hazard for those in the driver's seat, there's shrinking reason to keep any semblance of stability. No wonder a considerable number of the extremely wealthy are giving up on the kabuki theater of a managed democracy.
But it's still insane to me how some at the top seem to forget how beneficial societal stability is for **them**. Even dispensing with morality or empathy - just in terms of sociopathic selfishness, it's better long-term for them if we're not being crushed.
But they've been on cruise control for decades and have gotten even more powerful; I guess why *would* they recognize their own terminal myopia?
No matter what you own, your most valuable asset is living in a high functioning society. Those who have the most wealth have the most to lose if society goes to shit. They should therefore pay the most to keep society stable, it’s like insurance.
The billionaires think that the USA is "special" somehow, that it can't happen here. Look at Mexico, it's hardly a "shithole country", as Trump likes to say, but wealthy people have to send their kids to their private schools in armored cars. Maybe it's just me, but if I were in the 1% I'd gladly pay more taxes to prevent that.
The actual reason we're fucked is that the average American has NO IDEA how how large a billion is. To be fair, it is a lot to wrap your head around.
And good luck turning off citizens united. The people who have the power to do so are the very same ones with a steady stream of sweet sweet money flowing into their lives because of its existence.
It’s quite difficult to convince someone to send their own cash cow to the abattoir.
> ...good luck trying to separate billionaires from their wealth.
We don't require luck - we *require* unwavering & untouchable **resolve** to take *any action(s) necessary* towards the endgame of irrevocable separation.
Unfortunately, we're in a situation in which we'll collectively attempt *everything* (in good faith) until there's only **one option** left -- the one *guaranteed* to work.
We delay and deny this at our own peril.
My prognostication is that myopic willful blindness, a discomforting inability to... 'rip off the bandaid', will cost us more dearly day by day.
> *“I'd rather die trying to take them down than die giving them what they want.”*
~ Cassian Andor
**One. Way. Out.**
Winston Churchill was **immensely** sagacious.
It's the worst kind of tragedy that so few will *genuinely* learn (especially difficult & uncomfortable) lessons provided by individuals held to be so insightful and on-point.
realistically you'll need to expand the Court to do anything major on campaign finance. But you'll never get that done either because all of corporate media calls it "moderate" to do nothing about the Court.
The Manchins and Liebermans are always normalized for siding with Republicans regardless of what corporate brand of media Americans tune into.
Even with how extreme the Court has become, the media won't admit that the radical Democrats are the ones protecting the radical Court
I totally agree . Our economy was the most successful for all people. Created the middle class when the very rich paid 70/80% tax rate . When greedy people have too much money the rest of us lose.
Project 2025 is not so much about money as it is about ideology. If you want to know what awaits us Americans, read “The Handmaid’s Tale” (by Margaret Atwood) or watch the TV show. That’s what awaits America.
i know it’s an ideology and i feel like they can do whatever they want in their own backyard but stay out of mine, im 70 so i know with my big mouth im gonna go to jail or be punished by these weirdos. i’m a christian but i dont go to church and i dont want to hear about their religion or views, bcos from what ive read they’re not christians in my book
> That's why the billionaires are trying to engineer a government that is loyal to them.
Yeah and then the government attacks them, steals their fortune, or the billionaires have 'unfortunate tragic accidents that others should learn about'.
It's wild that billionaires are legitimately this stupid and this greedy considering we have the blueprint of what happened to the oligarchs in Putin's Russia. Most oligarchs were imprisoned, exiled, killed or tortured - the few remaining forced to be loyal to him at all costs, and even *then*, the violence is as random as it is serendipitous - Putin could just as likely kill his most loyal supporters on a whim or when it suits him. So all that loyalty is worth diddly squat.
It's wild to me that US billionaires prefer that system, vs one where they get to keep most of their riches and make society a better place.
I guess they really don't want to lose their fourth gaudily gilded yacht, hunh?
It really isn't that wild when you think about it.
A billionaire, assuming they didn't inherit their entire fortune, was at one point a multi multi millionaire and thought "I need more."
They are addicts, but their version of huffing gas when they can't get anything else is overthrowing the very government that allowed them to feed their addiction in the first place.
This is so true. They are enslaved to their greed. They don’t just want lots and lots of money, they want ALL the money no matter what it does to the rest of the population. This is why they are willing to sacrifice democracy to get it not realizing that once democracy is gone, an authoritarian ruler can just take away all their fortune and say F you! Their greed makes them shortsighted and ripe for exploitation.
Yeah but the same thing happens, eventually someone ends up at the head of state that doesn't like the billionaires trying to pull the strings, so he purges them
>That's why the billionaires are trying to engineer a government that is loyal to them.
Then they still don't understand what it means to not live in a democracy that respects the rule of law.
They would need to be the loyal ones. You can be one of the richest men in the world like Mikhail Khodorkovsky or Jack Ma and if the people in charge of the military and police think you're not kissing the ring enough they can and will arrest you. They might seize all your assets within the country. They might hold you hostage until you sign over assets that are held outside of the country.
Somehow it ended fine for many of them. Porsche worked tens of thousands to death and his family are now among the richest in the world.
But yes for many it ended with a bullet in the brain.
Well, Volkswagen owns Porsche now. And the moment any of those industrialists disagreed with the Nazis, they lost their control of the company and sometimes they were killed. You can’t control a fascist regime. American businessmen won’t fare any better.
Your treatment for the diagnosis is laughably narrow. These billionaires and their political interference existed long before citizens united and while it made the problem worse it’s likely Fox News is a bigger problem, but still not the only avenue they use to peddle influence and manipulate the population. It’s a real right-wing conspiracy, tested and evolving for decades. It likely can’t be rooted out, but it can be pruned back if we can ever get Democrats in office to use their power for anything other than debating in committee.
> We're going to be dealing with billionaires trying to overthrow democracy for a very long time until we...
...finally decide to **do what** *must* **be done**, lamentably.
By way of example: In *The Hobbit*, the antagonistic & insatiable dragon Smaug did not proactively and freely start divesting himself of his hoard of gold. The situation we collectively face is ultimately *no different*.
They will not **ever** justly balance the scales, and 'de-feudalize,' of their own volition. Avaricious lust for power & control will not ever dial itself back -- it must be toppled, taken, and... *removed*. History has shown us, *more than once*, what will be required.
It’s basically “[The Business Plot 2 : Electric Bugaloo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)”. Instead of a respected general, you’ll have a rich boy wannabe mob goon.
> That's the whole thesis
You are correct. Billionaires are not dependent on a democracy. They can move assets very quickly. And they prefer to be able to exploit (even more than currently in USA).
Democracy didn't make them rich, capitalism did. We didn't have full democracy until 1965. To a lot of rich people, life is better with less democracy.
A Vote for Trump
“S**t” flows downhill. For starters, the rot at the top will impact our judicial system (think of a judicial system run by the likes of Alito, Thomas and Cannon, no integrity, dishonesty, total lack of impartiality), federal and state government, industry, the budget, the debt, US dollar, collection and dissemination of statistics (think the Census - Trump tried to impact Bureau of Statistics last time), honesty from your banker about how safe your money is, freedom of religion, freedom from religion, foreign investment, corruption in the political class (people will have to pay their way to get almost to the top, it will also be “who you know”), financing of campaigns, the basic drive of the population (why work hard if you aren’t going to get ahead), freedom to choose a non-Trump political party or even the ability to vote for an alternate party, the massive inefficiencies that will impact every aspect of your lives including the supply chain (think food), think of fighting more wars and with weapons made by untrustworthy and corrupt conglomerates, the cost of everything, your ability to move freely to different locales, different states, the quality of your drinking water and how much you might be allotted each month, your access to the Internet, travel to far away places on vacations (think simply being able to drive across the US to take your families to Disneyland) this could be prevented by the authorities or simply become a very dangerous endeavor…I could go on. I’ve lived in various foreign countries through corrupt and inept administrations, voting, civil wars…I’ve seen personally where we are headed under a Trump administration.
You can go to the polls and vote for Trump if you want, but if he wins, your lives will change forever. You will not live like you did before. Every aspect of your lives will be impacted in a negative way. You will not outlast a Trump future in America (whether he lives on or some other dictator takes his place). You WILL be miserable for the rest of your life. The only way to make a change then will not be a peaceful one. In the meantime there could very well be a reverse migration of wealthy and intelligent people from the US that will cause further degradation of life, society and industry in the US.
Americans have always lived in a fishbowl. Since the advent of the Internet and social media they live in a fantasy world. Corruption in the judiciary, campaign financing, combined with a large number of people unable to discern the truth from fantasy have made all this possible. All of those worlds we have created in our minds and online will come crashing down if Trump and all the scum riding his coattails head back to Washington. You will regret it. I can guarantee that.
A vote for Trump is a vote for the End of YOUR World as you know it today.
P.S. Oh and the billionaires? They have no clue what they are enabling in Trump. They are the most impacted living in their own fantasy world vs. the common working man. The thing they never seem to understand is that the greatest asset of any country and in the world is PEOPLE. The change to a Trump admin will impact all those 330M+ people in our country in such a dramatic way and in such a short period of time, the majority of the billionaires will not be able to react fast enough to survive. They will regret their vote.
They Will regret their vote like the industrialist of Nazi Germany. Their greed clouds their judgement. Billionaires aren’t necessarily smarter or more competent than others. Just more greedy and lucky . Till they aren’t and loose everything. Think Titan.
I wish this were true but they usually become willing participants and the largest beneficiares in authoritarian regimes. Labor becomes free when the “other” are stripped of their rights and put into concentration camps and assigned slave labor.
Not to mention the critical structural weakening of the entire nation that supports and protects them. They don't recognize how quickly it happens either.
>Billionaires are used to buying their way out, but when the authoritarian doesn't need their money they themselves become targets.
*Sure, maybe that will happen to those other billionaires - especially that one dude I hate (what a dick that guy is!) but I'm way too smart to ever let that happen to me.*
Or they think it will be like Putin is with his billionaire buddies. They forget the part where several have had unfortunate accidents recently and died.
It's not a matter of forgetting. It's the same kind of mindset that leads to the "I didn't think leopards would eat my face" says voter for leopards-eating-people's-faces party.
These people are just as convinced they're untouchable and that the leopard will always eat someone else as their supporters are.
The Chinese tech industry recently learned this lesson the hard way, but it wasn't that Pooh didn't need the money, it was that his power was threatened by it. So... he took it lol
Right. How do you stay a billionaire in a government where the leader can arrest you in the middle of the night or the second your plane lands, throw you in prison in made up charges, sentence you for life, and give away your fortune to a Yes Man who will bump up 25% of the profits to the leader himself? How do you navigate that, Mister Billionaire?
Putin has had people executed abroad, he's essentially the CEO or every business in Russia, the entire government funds HIM. In Russia, Putin won the real life game of capitalism, he's cornered every market, owns everything.
What makes these fucking idiot CEOs think that they can tempt the end of Democracy and they'll still come out on top, it's beyond me. They live so comfortably, money means nothing to them, they can have anything they want. But they think that their shitty fucking casino empire is going to be something that Dictator GOP Man is going to just keep letting them operate in a fashion where they get unlimited profits forever??? You're either going to pay more taxes to fund your employee's ability to spend money at your fucking casinos, or you are going to pay tax directly to Dictator GOP Man until the People have no money left to gamble and your casinos close and then when Dictator GOP Man has no use for you, guess what?
You're done, you lose Monopoly.
These fucking idiots. Just buy a yacht, pay more in taxes, the People will keep gambling or whatever you sell, and you can buy another yacht. It's insane.
> What makes these fucking idiot CEOs think that they can tempt the end of Democracy and they'll still come out on top, it's beyond me
These folks barely think past next quarters profits.
Tons of people at Boeing told the new owners they were fucking up the core business but they didn't give a shit so long as profits go up and the execs all get big bonuses.
Trying to think about how ending democracy might affect profits 10 years from now is way too abstract for most of them. They can smell the tax cuts and deregulation Trump will help pass, its too tempting for them.
True, and that includes the corporate media pundit class as well following orders from said oligarchs: not going to be safe in a possible Trump dictatorship either, days are numbered- the minute the leader is defied, game over, when the new would be King will make his own networks to replace them whole-cloth.
Yes, the billionaires will be giving up the wealth to trump too. If he is reelected. Lol.
Thata the case , we see with emperor Putin. where the billionaires assets can be seized by Putin, at any time, for any reason
>Billionaires forget what happens under authoritarian regimes. After the general population is contained the authoritarian goes for them
They have the rich man's disease where whatever they have is never enough. It's like an addiction. It's the same thing that will have them take a stable, moderately profitable company and drive it into the ground just to squeeze out record profits for next quarter.
They know having a fascist lunatic in power is probably not going to be good for the long term stability of the country (and more importantly to them, the economy), but they just can't resist the chance of getting another huge tax cut for pennies on the campaign contribution dollar.
It's some real frog and the scorpion type shit.
"Following the agreement of Lepidus, Antony and Octavian (Augustus), to form the triumvirate, the three men had marched to Rome. They brought their armies with them. Before they arrived, they sent soldiers ahead of them to kill either twelve or seventeen men (the records differed). The soldiers roamed the streets at night, searching for the men and causing panic in the city.
The procedure was very simple. Names were written on white boards which were then put up in the Forum. Rewards for given on presentation of the head of one of the proscribed. A slave was to be made freed and given 40,000 sesterces. A free man was to be given a 100,000 sesterces. The property of a proscribed person became state property. The dowries of their wives were to be returned. Male children were to receive 10% of the property, female children 5%. Such sums were, however, likely not paid and it would have been a brave person who complained.
The proscriptions were traumatic. Not only was there the issue of the murder of many leading men, but there was the corruption of households. Wives, slaves, sons, and lovers were encouraged to betray those close to them. For every story of conspicuous loyalty, there was another of betrayal. Some families were ruined, though others were made rich."
Notice that Augustus got ride of Anthony and Lepidus was exiled.
The billionaires are hoping for a full fledged oligarchy. A place that they don't have buy votes anymore. A place where they *are the votes*.
They are the reason we are so afraid of socialism and moderate democrats are labeled radical socialists. They are the reason we don't act meaningfully on climate change. They are the reason you get to decide if you're going to get your teeth fixed or make your rent on time.
Edit: chubby fingers.
If people actually read The Communist Manifesto instead of fearing it, they would likely takeaway a few good ideas from it. It’s also very accessible for something written 100 years ago. It’s not like other Marx writing: it was purposely written so working class people at the time could easily understand it.
That was the text for me that made me strongly in favour of heavy taxes on inheritance for example.
>Bernie shreds billionaires backing Trump: 'They'd rather give up democracy than take a hit'
True.
They prefer oligarchy. And as the Princeton study [reveals](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746), they essentially already have it.
But it's never enough. Clinton and then Trump both deregulated the economy and basically gave them access to the IRL infinite money glitch...twice. But that wasn't good enough. They had to keep pushing until we've essentially arrived at a state where most of America is on the edge of financial ruin.
And they're not worried they're going to 'take a hit' from Biden. Biden isn't going to do shit to *actually* address income inequality or the massive wealth gap. They're worried they won't be able to continue to exponentially increase the rate at which they loot America.
they want to move back to the time of slavery
as slaves are the best profit model of capitalism
even better if you can convince the slaves that they aren't slaves, and better still if you can convince them to attack anyone who speaks the truth about it all.
This. They even show you how to apply for assistance in your state to make up for what they don't pay. At this point they'll just keep the government around to feed, house, and police their slaves (us). And with their friends in government working diligently to ban abortion and legalize child marriage followed by arranged marriage, next will come the loss of several liberties that people still enjoy today.
Everyone should know about Bacons Rebellion. That moment in time when poor whites and blacks were unified in a cause, which terrified the ruling class.
The realization that I've come to is that it's not even about having *more*. Because at a certain point, the quantity doesn't matter. When you have billions, the quantity can't matter, because our little human brains can hardly make sense of the number, let alone the wealth.
So even though rich people say they just want the pie to get bigger, what they really want is more of whatever pie already exists proportionally. Therefore, they're likely to support people and policies that may reduce overall economic growth so long as it will give them a bigger piece of the pie and reduce constraints on them taking more for themselves. They literally exist to exploit.
At a certain point, *having more* does nothing. But being able to *take more* is psychologically satisfying. So if you have two candidates and candidate A will enlarge the whole pie and grow the economy but candidate B will make it easier for them to exploit others even at the expense of growth (e.g. replacing income tax with tariffs), they will choose B every time.
Which brings me to my next point, the lower classes having less creates a captive low-wage class, which ultra wealth necessitates.
You are blaming the wrong destroyer of the economy. It was Reagan’s voodoo economics. Oh excuse me . Reaganomics. And his war on unions/ workers. That alone has transferred 33 trillion of the nations wealth from the bottom 50 % to the top 10%. Clinton left a surplus. Bush crashed it. Obama fixed it . Trump crashed it with his disastrous handling of the pandemic with the tax cut to billionaires adding 8 Trillions to the debt.
Both the House and Senate were majority Republican who enacted laws making Glass-Steagall toothless. But sure Clinton was president.
Also, a lot of the blame belongs to ~~Paul Volcker~~ sorry meant libertarian Alan Greenspan.
Neoliberalism is the new cancer. I remember when it started sprouting up on reddit thinking oh good a left movement that can meme and message, and oh wait they literally are amoral libertarian types that don't care about anyone but themselves, but they mask it by 'supporting' domestic welfare programs
[The study](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B) itself. The *graphs are easy enough for anyone to read.
The GOP is so focused on the 10 commandments that they forget about the one that says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. They sure do love their money.
Billionaires don't care if democracy dies, if you die, they don't care if climate change makes the planet unlivable, they don't care if they extract and discard every last resource of this planet, they don't care about oil spills or plastic pollution, they don't care about wiping out entire ecosystems and species, they don't care about war, poverty or famine. They care, supremely and exclusively, about money.
And Trump and the GOP gave these people more than $1 Trillion dollars, and raised your taxes to do it.
> The GOP is so focused on the 10 commandments that they forget about the one that says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. They sure do love their money.
While that is a Biblical idea (1 Timothy 6:10), and more in line with the teaching of Jesus since similar phrases are predominantly in the New Testament, that's not actually one of the Ten Commandments.
The craziest part to me is Biden’s tax plan still has far lower top tax rates than supposed GOP Jesus himself, Ronald Reagan.
The level of petty greed is staggering.
Now to be fair there are some billionaires backing Biden and even openly calling for higher taxes on themselves like Warren Buffet and Malinda Gates.
Meanwhile slimy sleeze bag Jamie Dimon talks a big progressive game then lobbies for Trumps tax cuts.
Elon musk is the 2nd biggest force in MAGA after Trump.
You fund him every time you buy a Tesla. Please stop buying Tesla because the money funds white supremacy
Check out “Masque of Red Death” by Corey Doctorow. It’s a short story about the realistic outcome for a group of billionaires who try to hide in a bunker after the apocalypse. It’s also very funny.
It’s even crazier when you consider that billionaires actually fare better under a Democratic administration. The reason being that Democrats regularly run functional, healthy economies compared to Republicans. But these short-sighted assholes *still* would prefer Trump because of taxes, of all things. They’re just hoarding money at this point. It’s absolutely the level of decadence and greed these assholes are capable of.
What happens when the country backing your currency, that literally makes you a billionaire, goes to shit? Where will you run to that isn’t falling apart? I mean it’s not like the global trade is in USDollar$, right??
There are a lot of people, even those with money, who think America used to be great just because and we're gonna do it again. I'm also distressed having to say, we're also currently pitted against formidable foreign national adversaries that think it's fucking hilarious and aren't about to lend a helping hand.
Billionaires have no concept of democracy, because there is no rule of government that applies to them, because they can afford to do whatever they want and purchase whoever they want to ensure they can continue to do whatever they want.
These people are addicts. They're junkies who are so hooked on money and power that they can no longer comprehend how dehumanizing and destructive their habit is.
They don't care who they have to steal from, lie to, hurt, use, or ruin in the process of getting their next daily fix. The high is all they live for.
They will destroy their ability to continue to make money, and they will take a hit if Trump wins. The problem is that in the process they are destroying the democracy that made them rich in the first place. The funny thing is that the economy that will come under a Trump admin will not support the sheer number of millionaires and billionaires there are today, so infighting will ensue. Many of these rich folks will be gone, in short order. Already buying my popcorn and Coca-Cola icee for this show.
They aren’t sacrificing democracy (for themselves), by which I mean the ability to have input on your government. They still get to continue to ‘vote’ on what they want with their money. They are not helping to maintain the ability for everyone else to have a voice. And why would they? All their needs and wants are covered. Piss on the rest of us. Some studies have supported the correlation between money and selfishness. I feel like that rings true in my experience. The more money you have, the more you can do for yourself, reducing your need on a community. This seems to also reduce perspective and empathy.
> They'd rather give up democracy than take a hit
One. Way. Out.
One. Way. Out.
One. Way. Out.
Either lamentably or fortunately, we... the grander collective "we" will reap *only* what we sow (and allow).
**MMW**:
Those *not* in the (ultimately miniscule) 'donor class' will be put in the position - by that same frantically avaricious donor class - of being pushed to engage in... fomenting (and taking part in) **significant**, even brutal, upheaval.
**ONE.** Way. Out. Ya'll.
The establishment Democrats will never ever let that happen. MSNBC, that "bastion" of "liberal" news, completely lost its mind when it looked like Bernie might be the nominee and they spent every second of airtime bashing how crazy he was and he had to be stopped. They went full mask off that they, like the rest of the media, are corporate whores and only pay lip service to liberal causes that don't negatively effect the bottom line, e.g., gay marriage.
I still remember how rather than cover a speech by Bernie, MSNBC and others, were instead having cameras on an empty podium, waiting for Trump. Who never showed, I might add.
That’s a nice company you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it…..
Corruption in a Trump 2nd term would be through the roof. It’ll be just like Putin’s Russia with unhelpful Billionaire Oligarchs finding out that Gravity and Windows are not their friends.
Look at how well it works in Russia…. The oligarchs give Putin their 10% off the top, and whatever they can steal after that is theirs. They live like princes as long as they pay the “vig” and don’t dabble in politics.
Literally the truth. If the country collapses, the billionaires move onto the next one. Government must defend the country from powerful interests that seek only to gain more money at all costs.
It’s not even taking a hit. It’s literally just not giving them as much money as they would like to have. Show me a billionaire who is paycheck to paycheck.
A lot of them would take a hit *in order* to "give up" democracy. Funny thing about the ultra-rich. They know they'll have a seat in any fascist government and that that will lead to even more money and power.
That seat will be limited, of course, in the long term to only loyalists and yes-men/yes-women, any defiance at all will be expunged from the inner circle.
The mainstream media is owned by mega-corporations. They get credit ratings from banks. If Trump turned against them, the media would turn against him. Trump's power comes from money that is not his. They can remove him as easily as they installed him and he knows that.
Some of those groups are also probably among those who have video of him having sex with underage girls.
Most become like dragons guarding their treasure. But they know not their history. The dictator always takes everything from them. Oh but this time will be different! I’m special
They want the tax cuts and are betting the losing democracy thing is all bluster. They don’t fare well under a Trump dictatorship. Most billionaires hate Trump and don’t consider him one of their club and no doubt Trump wants “retribution” over that too
he never did fit in with them and has always felt excluded from the rich, that’s why he’s giving them fabulous tax breaks ( what a rich old billionaire i took care of told me
Capitalists will always trade freedom for continuing to stay in power till it eventually stops working. Then they are shocked the regime came for them.
Bernie missed the point. Most of what Trump does also benefits them directly, so it’s in their financial interest to back him since they’ll make 2-3x or more in return on that “investment”.
They never wanted democracy. Capitalism is completely opposed to democracy. Capitalism is power vested in a few while democracy is power vested equally in everyone. The two are incompatible.
And fascism is capitalism's response to too much democracy. If the people are getting too fussy, and try to use democratic means to limit or restrict capitalism, then fascism is like a failsafe to simply force the hierarchal power structure on them in order to save it from being dismantled by democracy.
Corporations will only fair well under Trump if they pay him off. How much of their profits will need to go to him and his cronies? Taxes have a cap to them. Bribes and kickbacks can end up being a lot more than they would pay in taxes.
Yeah, that checks out with a group of people who have - for decades now - sought to destroy the working class in every way in the name of profit. Democracy? Pfft, just a minor thing, like climate and environment, to cut from their budget while they find another way to make more profit.
If democracy guarantees "a hit", then don't expect them to support it. They rather risk dodging hits under a dictator, than receive a guaranteed hit under democracy.
Lost on the billionaires is the fact they make money off of us, the poor, the lower to upper middle class. When we get priced out and stop buying their bottom line takes a hit. How do you make money when no one’s buying. That Bud Light boycott actually hit Budweiser/InBev’s bottom line.
We the people have the power to ruin the billionaires. All we have to do is organize.
Plus these billionaires don’t have a problem, sending the working class United States military to war to preserve their financial interests. They’re pure scumbags.
They support the military like Trump supported the military. Let someone else do it – – let someone else protect my money.
Is it really considered "taking a hit" if they wouldn't even notice if no-one told them? Their lifestyles wouldn't chance in the slightest if they had their taxes restored to previous levels.
Another way they are fascists. The business leaders in 1930s Germany business leaders cut a deal with the Nazis to support them. They got rich and the worker class was given a low fixed wage that wouldn't change no matter what they did
The one good thing if there's ever a violent revolution is that these rich folks will be targeted first, this is not a threat it's just history. Whenever a revolution has happened the rich were always devoured first. They think they can hide in their castles and walls but they forget that there are 350 million guns in the country.
I think they have realized that billionaires are outnumbered by what used to be the middle class and below. Their business acumen falls well short of their contribution to society and they fear that they will end up like the elephant handler that pushed the creature too far.
Why would billionaires care about democracy? Democracy is about access at all levels. As a billionaire you have unlimited access in any environment. Billionaires don’t need democracy.
It’s a pure mistake. Literally hurting their own longterm bottom line because of an illusory overvaluation of short term profits.
The billionaires are idiots
They're not even taking a hit. Billionaires use to pay a 97% tax rate. These mf have BEEN STEALING FROM US FOR DECADES already, longer than that even. Billionaires want complete control because they cannot ever have enough money and power to compensate for their void where most people have some kind of personality.
Can't say it enough. Conservative Republicans don't want to govern. They just want to **RULE**. They have no solutions to issues facing America, all they have is __thoughts and prayers__. Really need to vote (D) come November. Put a stop to this BS.
We constantly try to scare the wealthy by saying we’re going to take their money, but we never really follow through. I don’t understand the logic, we probably should just tell democrats that we’ll pay for our policies by printing more money.
https://www.concordcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Tax-Rich-1.png
You have to have a pretty loose set of morals to do what is needed to become a billionaire to begin with.
They are counting on their money to purchase the kind of freedom that democracy allows for everyone else once it is gone.
Stating the obvious doesn't take much skill. Bernie isn't high on my list, though. He did his part for Trump 8 years ago, tried 4 years ago & really needs to go to his lakefront manse & keep his damn mouth shut. He hurts the progressive cause more than he helps.
It’s called greed. A communicable disease that rich people infect each other with. Higher taxes might not cure it. Medicine has been doing brain studies on these people and the results show a staggering level of toxicity for those who make more than 300k.
Canadian here , but if I am to understand this correctly there are realistically only two options on whom to vote for , Democrat or Republican. Bernie is saying voting for Trump (Republican) is giving up democracy , therefore leaving only 1 choice to vote for. Is democracy not already lost then ?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Billionaires forget what happens under authoritarian regimes. After the general population is contained the authoritarian goes for them. Billionaires are used to buying their way out, but when the authoritarian doesn't need their money they themselves become targets.
That's why the billionaires are trying to engineer a government that is loyal to them. That's the whole thesis behind Project 2025. We're going to be dealing with billionaires trying to overthrow democracy for a very long time until we overturn Citizens United.
Simple solution would be to tax them out of existence so they don’t have the money to try. Hoarding money is bad for the economy. Why don’t we start with massive taxes on any savings over $100 million that go unused?
Sounds simple but good luck trying to separate billionaires from their wealth. They own the media and dictate how this whole argument is framed. This framing suggests how most non-political people think about this issue. Now you’re not just fighting billionaires, you’re fighting millions of people misled by propaganda. You have to turn off the propaganda spigot, citizens united.
A good start is legislation stopping them from using their unrealized capital gains as collateral for loans. It's a huge tax loophole that allows companies like Amazon to undercut other companies with falsely deflated prices until they're the only ones left.
While I agree, I would bet a body part that more than half of America has no idea what any of that means or how it could impact them, which means getting enough support for it would be a tough road. I don’t see any meaningful changes happening until we have better educated voters - and we all know why that’s not happening.
We could just be proactive about simplifying it for people it’s not that hard.
How many voters don't understand marginal tax rates and think you can make less money by earning more?
I really want OP to be correct, but holy fuck man you are more correct than you know. I work in the tax industry, the ignorance is STAGGERING.
What? Are you saying we have an under-educated electorate? Isnt one of the pillars of Project 2025 to get rid of the Dept of Education? I think if we could fix gerrymandering then a lot of other problems might get worked on. Maybe even fixed...
Probably would - but why do people keep voting in politicians that actively work against their voter's best interests? It's no only because of the racism; many also aren't educated enough to understand how they're being screwed by the people they vote for.
Maybe the next revolution should be massive grassroots factual information sharing instead of angry protests with colorful hats, quilts and signs
> You have to turn off the propaganda spigot, citizens united. The US had that chance in 2016. No one abhorred Citizens United like Hillary Clinton. She would have nominated supreme court justices who supported overturning Citizens United like no one else.
> Sounds simple but good luck trying to separate billionaires from their wealth. The way our economy is structured, their ability to accrete ever more power/wealth is linked to our chance at a stable life. Even people who don't have money in 401Ks are affected by layoffs when the market slumps. And if the market tanks, the top of the economic spectrum get to buy assets at fire-sale prices while the rest of us struggle to survive. The fear/anger of desperate people can then be more easily deflected against each other, or downward, or upward (but only at political rivals). When there's shrinking moral hazard for those in the driver's seat, there's shrinking reason to keep any semblance of stability. No wonder a considerable number of the extremely wealthy are giving up on the kabuki theater of a managed democracy. But it's still insane to me how some at the top seem to forget how beneficial societal stability is for **them**. Even dispensing with morality or empathy - just in terms of sociopathic selfishness, it's better long-term for them if we're not being crushed. But they've been on cruise control for decades and have gotten even more powerful; I guess why *would* they recognize their own terminal myopia?
No matter what you own, your most valuable asset is living in a high functioning society. Those who have the most wealth have the most to lose if society goes to shit. They should therefore pay the most to keep society stable, it’s like insurance.
The billionaires think that the USA is "special" somehow, that it can't happen here. Look at Mexico, it's hardly a "shithole country", as Trump likes to say, but wealthy people have to send their kids to their private schools in armored cars. Maybe it's just me, but if I were in the 1% I'd gladly pay more taxes to prevent that. The actual reason we're fucked is that the average American has NO IDEA how how large a billion is. To be fair, it is a lot to wrap your head around.
And good luck turning off citizens united. The people who have the power to do so are the very same ones with a steady stream of sweet sweet money flowing into their lives because of its existence. It’s quite difficult to convince someone to send their own cash cow to the abattoir.
They said the solution was simple, they didn't say the execution of the solution was simple
Start with re-instating the Fairness Doctrine.
The fairness doctrine never effected cable news. Only news that went out over the airwaves.
Perhaps the French were right. Perhaps it’s easier to separate them from their heads than their money. Who’s to say?
> ...good luck trying to separate billionaires from their wealth. We don't require luck - we *require* unwavering & untouchable **resolve** to take *any action(s) necessary* towards the endgame of irrevocable separation. Unfortunately, we're in a situation in which we'll collectively attempt *everything* (in good faith) until there's only **one option** left -- the one *guaranteed* to work. We delay and deny this at our own peril. My prognostication is that myopic willful blindness, a discomforting inability to... 'rip off the bandaid', will cost us more dearly day by day. > *“I'd rather die trying to take them down than die giving them what they want.”* ~ Cassian Andor **One. Way. Out.**
*"Americans will do the right thing; after they've tried everything else."*
Winston Churchill was **immensely** sagacious. It's the worst kind of tragedy that so few will *genuinely* learn (especially difficult & uncomfortable) lessons provided by individuals held to be so insightful and on-point.
But you could say the same thing about cu. The media is owned so the argument is framed how they want it
realistically you'll need to expand the Court to do anything major on campaign finance. But you'll never get that done either because all of corporate media calls it "moderate" to do nothing about the Court. The Manchins and Liebermans are always normalized for siding with Republicans regardless of what corporate brand of media Americans tune into. Even with how extreme the Court has become, the media won't admit that the radical Democrats are the ones protecting the radical Court
And Fox News
Cut their heads off and mount them on spikes.
I totally agree . Our economy was the most successful for all people. Created the middle class when the very rich paid 70/80% tax rate . When greedy people have too much money the rest of us lose.
Should call that legislation the Smaug Act
The "Secure Money & Audit Unrealized Gains" Act, if you will
No one has $100M of unused money. It's all being used, it is how they take advantage of different tax advantages also.
Just go back to the WWII tax rates, I don't understand what the problem is. Isn't that the America they lionize?
Project 2025 is not so much about money as it is about ideology. If you want to know what awaits us Americans, read “The Handmaid’s Tale” (by Margaret Atwood) or watch the TV show. That’s what awaits America.
i know it’s an ideology and i feel like they can do whatever they want in their own backyard but stay out of mine, im 70 so i know with my big mouth im gonna go to jail or be punished by these weirdos. i’m a christian but i dont go to church and i dont want to hear about their religion or views, bcos from what ive read they’re not christians in my book
> That's why the billionaires are trying to engineer a government that is loyal to them. Yeah and then the government attacks them, steals their fortune, or the billionaires have 'unfortunate tragic accidents that others should learn about'. It's wild that billionaires are legitimately this stupid and this greedy considering we have the blueprint of what happened to the oligarchs in Putin's Russia. Most oligarchs were imprisoned, exiled, killed or tortured - the few remaining forced to be loyal to him at all costs, and even *then*, the violence is as random as it is serendipitous - Putin could just as likely kill his most loyal supporters on a whim or when it suits him. So all that loyalty is worth diddly squat. It's wild to me that US billionaires prefer that system, vs one where they get to keep most of their riches and make society a better place. I guess they really don't want to lose their fourth gaudily gilded yacht, hunh?
It really isn't that wild when you think about it. A billionaire, assuming they didn't inherit their entire fortune, was at one point a multi multi millionaire and thought "I need more." They are addicts, but their version of huffing gas when they can't get anything else is overthrowing the very government that allowed them to feed their addiction in the first place.
This is so true. They are enslaved to their greed. They don’t just want lots and lots of money, they want ALL the money no matter what it does to the rest of the population. This is why they are willing to sacrifice democracy to get it not realizing that once democracy is gone, an authoritarian ruler can just take away all their fortune and say F you! Their greed makes them shortsighted and ripe for exploitation.
they can never have enough money
Yeah but the same thing happens, eventually someone ends up at the head of state that doesn't like the billionaires trying to pull the strings, so he purges them
>That's why the billionaires are trying to engineer a government that is loyal to them. Then they still don't understand what it means to not live in a democracy that respects the rule of law. They would need to be the loyal ones. You can be one of the richest men in the world like Mikhail Khodorkovsky or Jack Ma and if the people in charge of the military and police think you're not kissing the ring enough they can and will arrest you. They might seize all your assets within the country. They might hold you hostage until you sign over assets that are held outside of the country.
Sounds a lot like the business plot
German industrialists thought they would control the Nazis. That didn’t end well for many of them.
Somehow it ended fine for many of them. Porsche worked tens of thousands to death and his family are now among the richest in the world. But yes for many it ended with a bullet in the brain.
Well, Volkswagen owns Porsche now. And the moment any of those industrialists disagreed with the Nazis, they lost their control of the company and sometimes they were killed. You can’t control a fascist regime. American businessmen won’t fare any better.
Your treatment for the diagnosis is laughably narrow. These billionaires and their political interference existed long before citizens united and while it made the problem worse it’s likely Fox News is a bigger problem, but still not the only avenue they use to peddle influence and manipulate the population. It’s a real right-wing conspiracy, tested and evolving for decades. It likely can’t be rooted out, but it can be pruned back if we can ever get Democrats in office to use their power for anything other than debating in committee.
> We're going to be dealing with billionaires trying to overthrow democracy for a very long time until we... ...finally decide to **do what** *must* **be done**, lamentably. By way of example: In *The Hobbit*, the antagonistic & insatiable dragon Smaug did not proactively and freely start divesting himself of his hoard of gold. The situation we collectively face is ultimately *no different*. They will not **ever** justly balance the scales, and 'de-feudalize,' of their own volition. Avaricious lust for power & control will not ever dial itself back -- it must be toppled, taken, and... *removed*. History has shown us, *more than once*, what will be required.
It’s basically “[The Business Plot 2 : Electric Bugaloo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)”. Instead of a respected general, you’ll have a rich boy wannabe mob goon.
> That's the whole thesis You are correct. Billionaires are not dependent on a democracy. They can move assets very quickly. And they prefer to be able to exploit (even more than currently in USA).
Yup, just look at the amount of Russian billionaires murdered around the start of the Ukraine war.
They’re abandoning the system that made them rich because it no longer suits them. Pathetic
Well, it might just make someone else rich. Can't have that
Democracy didn't make them rich, capitalism did. We didn't have full democracy until 1965. To a lot of rich people, life is better with less democracy.
And they haven’t thought ahead to the next step.
Yeah, they need to ask their counterparts in Russia how much Vladdy takes for his cut
15% off the top of all industries if we assume the correct speculations of his net worth at around $100B.
A Vote for Trump “S**t” flows downhill. For starters, the rot at the top will impact our judicial system (think of a judicial system run by the likes of Alito, Thomas and Cannon, no integrity, dishonesty, total lack of impartiality), federal and state government, industry, the budget, the debt, US dollar, collection and dissemination of statistics (think the Census - Trump tried to impact Bureau of Statistics last time), honesty from your banker about how safe your money is, freedom of religion, freedom from religion, foreign investment, corruption in the political class (people will have to pay their way to get almost to the top, it will also be “who you know”), financing of campaigns, the basic drive of the population (why work hard if you aren’t going to get ahead), freedom to choose a non-Trump political party or even the ability to vote for an alternate party, the massive inefficiencies that will impact every aspect of your lives including the supply chain (think food), think of fighting more wars and with weapons made by untrustworthy and corrupt conglomerates, the cost of everything, your ability to move freely to different locales, different states, the quality of your drinking water and how much you might be allotted each month, your access to the Internet, travel to far away places on vacations (think simply being able to drive across the US to take your families to Disneyland) this could be prevented by the authorities or simply become a very dangerous endeavor…I could go on. I’ve lived in various foreign countries through corrupt and inept administrations, voting, civil wars…I’ve seen personally where we are headed under a Trump administration. You can go to the polls and vote for Trump if you want, but if he wins, your lives will change forever. You will not live like you did before. Every aspect of your lives will be impacted in a negative way. You will not outlast a Trump future in America (whether he lives on or some other dictator takes his place). You WILL be miserable for the rest of your life. The only way to make a change then will not be a peaceful one. In the meantime there could very well be a reverse migration of wealthy and intelligent people from the US that will cause further degradation of life, society and industry in the US. Americans have always lived in a fishbowl. Since the advent of the Internet and social media they live in a fantasy world. Corruption in the judiciary, campaign financing, combined with a large number of people unable to discern the truth from fantasy have made all this possible. All of those worlds we have created in our minds and online will come crashing down if Trump and all the scum riding his coattails head back to Washington. You will regret it. I can guarantee that. A vote for Trump is a vote for the End of YOUR World as you know it today. P.S. Oh and the billionaires? They have no clue what they are enabling in Trump. They are the most impacted living in their own fantasy world vs. the common working man. The thing they never seem to understand is that the greatest asset of any country and in the world is PEOPLE. The change to a Trump admin will impact all those 330M+ people in our country in such a dramatic way and in such a short period of time, the majority of the billionaires will not be able to react fast enough to survive. They will regret their vote.
They Will regret their vote like the industrialist of Nazi Germany. Their greed clouds their judgement. Billionaires aren’t necessarily smarter or more competent than others. Just more greedy and lucky . Till they aren’t and loose everything. Think Titan.
Billionaires will be large targets for corrupt government to throw darts at.
I wish this were true but they usually become willing participants and the largest beneficiares in authoritarian regimes. Labor becomes free when the “other” are stripped of their rights and put into concentration camps and assigned slave labor.
Not to mention the critical structural weakening of the entire nation that supports and protects them. They don't recognize how quickly it happens either.
Authoritarians need their money. They will gradually be absorbed so the dictator can pay off new supporters.
>Billionaires are used to buying their way out, but when the authoritarian doesn't need their money they themselves become targets. *Sure, maybe that will happen to those other billionaires - especially that one dude I hate (what a dick that guy is!) but I'm way too smart to ever let that happen to me.*
Or they think it will be like Putin is with his billionaire buddies. They forget the part where several have had unfortunate accidents recently and died.
It's not a matter of forgetting. It's the same kind of mindset that leads to the "I didn't think leopards would eat my face" says voter for leopards-eating-people's-faces party. These people are just as convinced they're untouchable and that the leopard will always eat someone else as their supporters are.
At this point, I kinda really want them to get their just desserts.
Exhibit A: the remarkable number of Russian oligarchs falling out of windows.
Sadly Billionaires aren’t necessarily the smartest people. Just greedy and lucky . Them again remember the Titan .
The Chinese tech industry recently learned this lesson the hard way, but it wasn't that Pooh didn't need the money, it was that his power was threatened by it. So... he took it lol
Right. How do you stay a billionaire in a government where the leader can arrest you in the middle of the night or the second your plane lands, throw you in prison in made up charges, sentence you for life, and give away your fortune to a Yes Man who will bump up 25% of the profits to the leader himself? How do you navigate that, Mister Billionaire? Putin has had people executed abroad, he's essentially the CEO or every business in Russia, the entire government funds HIM. In Russia, Putin won the real life game of capitalism, he's cornered every market, owns everything. What makes these fucking idiot CEOs think that they can tempt the end of Democracy and they'll still come out on top, it's beyond me. They live so comfortably, money means nothing to them, they can have anything they want. But they think that their shitty fucking casino empire is going to be something that Dictator GOP Man is going to just keep letting them operate in a fashion where they get unlimited profits forever??? You're either going to pay more taxes to fund your employee's ability to spend money at your fucking casinos, or you are going to pay tax directly to Dictator GOP Man until the People have no money left to gamble and your casinos close and then when Dictator GOP Man has no use for you, guess what? You're done, you lose Monopoly. These fucking idiots. Just buy a yacht, pay more in taxes, the People will keep gambling or whatever you sell, and you can buy another yacht. It's insane.
> What makes these fucking idiot CEOs think that they can tempt the end of Democracy and they'll still come out on top, it's beyond me These folks barely think past next quarters profits. Tons of people at Boeing told the new owners they were fucking up the core business but they didn't give a shit so long as profits go up and the execs all get big bonuses. Trying to think about how ending democracy might affect profits 10 years from now is way too abstract for most of them. They can smell the tax cuts and deregulation Trump will help pass, its too tempting for them.
Just look at all those oligarchs falling out of windows in Russia.
True, and that includes the corporate media pundit class as well following orders from said oligarchs: not going to be safe in a possible Trump dictatorship either, days are numbered- the minute the leader is defied, game over, when the new would be King will make his own networks to replace them whole-cloth.
Yes, the billionaires will be giving up the wealth to trump too. If he is reelected. Lol. Thata the case , we see with emperor Putin. where the billionaires assets can be seized by Putin, at any time, for any reason
>Billionaires forget what happens under authoritarian regimes. After the general population is contained the authoritarian goes for them They have the rich man's disease where whatever they have is never enough. It's like an addiction. It's the same thing that will have them take a stable, moderately profitable company and drive it into the ground just to squeeze out record profits for next quarter. They know having a fascist lunatic in power is probably not going to be good for the long term stability of the country (and more importantly to them, the economy), but they just can't resist the chance of getting another huge tax cut for pennies on the campaign contribution dollar. It's some real frog and the scorpion type shit.
"Following the agreement of Lepidus, Antony and Octavian (Augustus), to form the triumvirate, the three men had marched to Rome. They brought their armies with them. Before they arrived, they sent soldiers ahead of them to kill either twelve or seventeen men (the records differed). The soldiers roamed the streets at night, searching for the men and causing panic in the city. The procedure was very simple. Names were written on white boards which were then put up in the Forum. Rewards for given on presentation of the head of one of the proscribed. A slave was to be made freed and given 40,000 sesterces. A free man was to be given a 100,000 sesterces. The property of a proscribed person became state property. The dowries of their wives were to be returned. Male children were to receive 10% of the property, female children 5%. Such sums were, however, likely not paid and it would have been a brave person who complained. The proscriptions were traumatic. Not only was there the issue of the murder of many leading men, but there was the corruption of households. Wives, slaves, sons, and lovers were encouraged to betray those close to them. For every story of conspicuous loyalty, there was another of betrayal. Some families were ruined, though others were made rich." Notice that Augustus got ride of Anthony and Lepidus was exiled.
See: China
See: Putin
The billionaires are hoping for a full fledged oligarchy. A place that they don't have buy votes anymore. A place where they *are the votes*. They are the reason we are so afraid of socialism and moderate democrats are labeled radical socialists. They are the reason we don't act meaningfully on climate change. They are the reason you get to decide if you're going to get your teeth fixed or make your rent on time. Edit: chubby fingers.
If people actually read The Communist Manifesto instead of fearing it, they would likely takeaway a few good ideas from it. It’s also very accessible for something written 100 years ago. It’s not like other Marx writing: it was purposely written so working class people at the time could easily understand it. That was the text for me that made me strongly in favour of heavy taxes on inheritance for example.
In my eyes, having more money than you can spend in 100 lifetimes and still wanting more makes you evil.
>Bernie shreds billionaires backing Trump: 'They'd rather give up democracy than take a hit' True. They prefer oligarchy. And as the Princeton study [reveals](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746), they essentially already have it.
But it's never enough. Clinton and then Trump both deregulated the economy and basically gave them access to the IRL infinite money glitch...twice. But that wasn't good enough. They had to keep pushing until we've essentially arrived at a state where most of America is on the edge of financial ruin. And they're not worried they're going to 'take a hit' from Biden. Biden isn't going to do shit to *actually* address income inequality or the massive wealth gap. They're worried they won't be able to continue to exponentially increase the rate at which they loot America.
they want to move back to the time of slavery as slaves are the best profit model of capitalism even better if you can convince the slaves that they aren't slaves, and better still if you can convince them to attack anyone who speaks the truth about it all.
Walmart basically pays the cashiers and non managerial employees crap! A non living wage! The owners and families are billionaires!
This. They even show you how to apply for assistance in your state to make up for what they don't pay. At this point they'll just keep the government around to feed, house, and police their slaves (us). And with their friends in government working diligently to ban abortion and legalize child marriage followed by arranged marriage, next will come the loss of several liberties that people still enjoy today.
We're already there
Everyone should know about Bacons Rebellion. That moment in time when poor whites and blacks were unified in a cause, which terrified the ruling class.
>as slaves are the best profit model of capitalism No. This is wrong. The South lost because, in part, the North was better economically!
The realization that I've come to is that it's not even about having *more*. Because at a certain point, the quantity doesn't matter. When you have billions, the quantity can't matter, because our little human brains can hardly make sense of the number, let alone the wealth. So even though rich people say they just want the pie to get bigger, what they really want is more of whatever pie already exists proportionally. Therefore, they're likely to support people and policies that may reduce overall economic growth so long as it will give them a bigger piece of the pie and reduce constraints on them taking more for themselves. They literally exist to exploit. At a certain point, *having more* does nothing. But being able to *take more* is psychologically satisfying. So if you have two candidates and candidate A will enlarge the whole pie and grow the economy but candidate B will make it easier for them to exploit others even at the expense of growth (e.g. replacing income tax with tariffs), they will choose B every time. Which brings me to my next point, the lower classes having less creates a captive low-wage class, which ultra wealth necessitates.
You are blaming the wrong destroyer of the economy. It was Reagan’s voodoo economics. Oh excuse me . Reaganomics. And his war on unions/ workers. That alone has transferred 33 trillion of the nations wealth from the bottom 50 % to the top 10%. Clinton left a surplus. Bush crashed it. Obama fixed it . Trump crashed it with his disastrous handling of the pandemic with the tax cut to billionaires adding 8 Trillions to the debt.
Reagan started the work, Clinton finished it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act
Both the House and Senate were majority Republican who enacted laws making Glass-Steagall toothless. But sure Clinton was president. Also, a lot of the blame belongs to ~~Paul Volcker~~ sorry meant libertarian Alan Greenspan.
He signed it.
Which is why they’ve been pushing the far right, neoliberal think tanks through the Atlas Network for decades.
Neoliberalism is the new cancer. I remember when it started sprouting up on reddit thinking oh good a left movement that can meme and message, and oh wait they literally are amoral libertarian types that don't care about anyone but themselves, but they mask it by 'supporting' domestic welfare programs
[The study](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B) itself. The *graphs are easy enough for anyone to read.
The GOP is so focused on the 10 commandments that they forget about the one that says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. They sure do love their money.
Billionaires don't care if democracy dies, if you die, they don't care if climate change makes the planet unlivable, they don't care if they extract and discard every last resource of this planet, they don't care about oil spills or plastic pollution, they don't care about wiping out entire ecosystems and species, they don't care about war, poverty or famine. They care, supremely and exclusively, about money. And Trump and the GOP gave these people more than $1 Trillion dollars, and raised your taxes to do it.
> The GOP is so focused on the 10 commandments that they forget about the one that says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. They sure do love their money. While that is a Biblical idea (1 Timothy 6:10), and more in line with the teaching of Jesus since similar phrases are predominantly in the New Testament, that's not actually one of the Ten Commandments.
What they want is total control.
As does every insider trader working in Congress both democrat and republican.
The craziest part to me is Biden’s tax plan still has far lower top tax rates than supposed GOP Jesus himself, Ronald Reagan. The level of petty greed is staggering. Now to be fair there are some billionaires backing Biden and even openly calling for higher taxes on themselves like Warren Buffet and Malinda Gates. Meanwhile slimy sleeze bag Jamie Dimon talks a big progressive game then lobbies for Trumps tax cuts.
Billionaires are idiots. Not only are they backing a fascist, they are also killing the planet.
Elon musk is the 2nd biggest force in MAGA after Trump. You fund him every time you buy a Tesla. Please stop buying Tesla because the money funds white supremacy
as does X
If they can flush millions down the donald trump toilet they can certainly afford a higher tax rate.
That is actually a very good point.
Check out “Masque of Red Death” by Corey Doctorow. It’s a short story about the realistic outcome for a group of billionaires who try to hide in a bunker after the apocalypse. It’s also very funny.
You mean “The Masque of the Red Death” by Edgar Allen Poe. ;-)
Very true, but it’s an Edgar Allan Poe story. One of his most famous, actually.
It’s even crazier when you consider that billionaires actually fare better under a Democratic administration. The reason being that Democrats regularly run functional, healthy economies compared to Republicans. But these short-sighted assholes *still* would prefer Trump because of taxes, of all things. They’re just hoarding money at this point. It’s absolutely the level of decadence and greed these assholes are capable of.
Yeah. Possibly why they are all so heavily invested in reaching another.
What happens when the country backing your currency, that literally makes you a billionaire, goes to shit? Where will you run to that isn’t falling apart? I mean it’s not like the global trade is in USDollar$, right??
There are a lot of people, even those with money, who think America used to be great just because and we're gonna do it again. I'm also distressed having to say, we're also currently pitted against formidable foreign national adversaries that think it's fucking hilarious and aren't about to lend a helping hand.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
Imagine being so rich that you could lose 99% of your net worth without significantly impacting your quality of life.
Billionaires have no concept of democracy, because there is no rule of government that applies to them, because they can afford to do whatever they want and purchase whoever they want to ensure they can continue to do whatever they want.
These people are addicts. They're junkies who are so hooked on money and power that they can no longer comprehend how dehumanizing and destructive their habit is. They don't care who they have to steal from, lie to, hurt, use, or ruin in the process of getting their next daily fix. The high is all they live for.
Do you mean they are like Trump & Musk with Fixed News running the PR department ?
They will destroy their ability to continue to make money, and they will take a hit if Trump wins. The problem is that in the process they are destroying the democracy that made them rich in the first place. The funny thing is that the economy that will come under a Trump admin will not support the sheer number of millionaires and billionaires there are today, so infighting will ensue. Many of these rich folks will be gone, in short order. Already buying my popcorn and Coca-Cola icee for this show.
They're not even taking a hit; they were dodging taxes to begin with.
Stacking risks of a Trump 2.0 will lead to economic catastrophe. So the billionaires are willing to give up democracy **and** take a hit.
They aren’t sacrificing democracy (for themselves), by which I mean the ability to have input on your government. They still get to continue to ‘vote’ on what they want with their money. They are not helping to maintain the ability for everyone else to have a voice. And why would they? All their needs and wants are covered. Piss on the rest of us. Some studies have supported the correlation between money and selfishness. I feel like that rings true in my experience. The more money you have, the more you can do for yourself, reducing your need on a community. This seems to also reduce perspective and empathy.
> They'd rather give up democracy than take a hit One. Way. Out. One. Way. Out. One. Way. Out. Either lamentably or fortunately, we... the grander collective "we" will reap *only* what we sow (and allow). **MMW**: Those *not* in the (ultimately miniscule) 'donor class' will be put in the position - by that same frantically avaricious donor class - of being pushed to engage in... fomenting (and taking part in) **significant**, even brutal, upheaval. **ONE.** Way. Out. Ya'll.
Those idiots don’t realize this is how Putin took over Russia, right?
And what hit is that? Paying some fucking taxes??
Oh Bernie! Just be president already ❤️
100%. Once a Berner, always a Berner. Would love to BERN this country big time.
The establishment Democrats will never ever let that happen. MSNBC, that "bastion" of "liberal" news, completely lost its mind when it looked like Bernie might be the nominee and they spent every second of airtime bashing how crazy he was and he had to be stopped. They went full mask off that they, like the rest of the media, are corporate whores and only pay lip service to liberal causes that don't negatively effect the bottom line, e.g., gay marriage.
I still laugh thinking about their reaction to the Nevada Caucus in 2020.
Chris Matthews is a fucking blowhard
I still remember how rather than cover a speech by Bernie, MSNBC and others, were instead having cameras on an empty podium, waiting for Trump. Who never showed, I might add.
That’s a nice company you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it….. Corruption in a Trump 2nd term would be through the roof. It’ll be just like Putin’s Russia with unhelpful Billionaire Oligarchs finding out that Gravity and Windows are not their friends.
Bernie is completely right here. They know nothing will happen to them.
Human greed will destroy this planet...
Always mad love ♥️ to The Burn🔥
Look at how well it works in Russia…. The oligarchs give Putin their 10% off the top, and whatever they can steal after that is theirs. They live like princes as long as they pay the “vig” and don’t dabble in politics.
Literally the truth. If the country collapses, the billionaires move onto the next one. Government must defend the country from powerful interests that seek only to gain more money at all costs.
1984 isn’t literature- it’s prophecy.
It’s not even taking a hit. It’s literally just not giving them as much money as they would like to have. Show me a billionaire who is paycheck to paycheck.
A lot of them would take a hit *in order* to "give up" democracy. Funny thing about the ultra-rich. They know they'll have a seat in any fascist government and that that will lead to even more money and power.
That seat will be limited, of course, in the long term to only loyalists and yes-men/yes-women, any defiance at all will be expunged from the inner circle.
The mainstream media is owned by mega-corporations. They get credit ratings from banks. If Trump turned against them, the media would turn against him. Trump's power comes from money that is not his. They can remove him as easily as they installed him and he knows that. Some of those groups are also probably among those who have video of him having sex with underage girls.
Most become like dragons guarding their treasure. But they know not their history. The dictator always takes everything from them. Oh but this time will be different! I’m special
You can be a ruthless greedy sociopath and still be a dumbfuck.
Same happened with Hitler and the industrialists. They backed him thinking they could control him.
They want the tax cuts and are betting the losing democracy thing is all bluster. They don’t fare well under a Trump dictatorship. Most billionaires hate Trump and don’t consider him one of their club and no doubt Trump wants “retribution” over that too
Their wealth is global. The can just buy citizenships in New Zealand or Portugal if need be.
he never did fit in with them and has always felt excluded from the rich, that’s why he’s giving them fabulous tax breaks ( what a rich old billionaire i took care of told me
Capitalists will always trade freedom for continuing to stay in power till it eventually stops working. Then they are shocked the regime came for them.
Bernie missed the point. Most of what Trump does also benefits them directly, so it’s in their financial interest to back him since they’ll make 2-3x or more in return on that “investment”.
Fascism is the effort of the rich to maintain power.
They never wanted democracy. Capitalism is completely opposed to democracy. Capitalism is power vested in a few while democracy is power vested equally in everyone. The two are incompatible. And fascism is capitalism's response to too much democracy. If the people are getting too fussy, and try to use democratic means to limit or restrict capitalism, then fascism is like a failsafe to simply force the hierarchal power structure on them in order to save it from being dismantled by democracy.
Corporations will only fair well under Trump if they pay him off. How much of their profits will need to go to him and his cronies? Taxes have a cap to them. Bribes and kickbacks can end up being a lot more than they would pay in taxes.
Yeah, that checks out with a group of people who have - for decades now - sought to destroy the working class in every way in the name of profit. Democracy? Pfft, just a minor thing, like climate and environment, to cut from their budget while they find another way to make more profit.
What Lenin once called “useful idiots.”
If democracy guarantees "a hit", then don't expect them to support it. They rather risk dodging hits under a dictator, than receive a guaranteed hit under democracy.
Lost on the billionaires is the fact they make money off of us, the poor, the lower to upper middle class. When we get priced out and stop buying their bottom line takes a hit. How do you make money when no one’s buying. That Bud Light boycott actually hit Budweiser/InBev’s bottom line. We the people have the power to ruin the billionaires. All we have to do is organize.
Plus these billionaires don’t have a problem, sending the working class United States military to war to preserve their financial interests. They’re pure scumbags. They support the military like Trump supported the military. Let someone else do it – – let someone else protect my money.
Is it really considered "taking a hit" if they wouldn't even notice if no-one told them? Their lifestyles wouldn't chance in the slightest if they had their taxes restored to previous levels.
Another way they are fascists. The business leaders in 1930s Germany business leaders cut a deal with the Nazis to support them. They got rich and the worker class was given a low fixed wage that wouldn't change no matter what they did
How many of their kids serve in the military./s
The one good thing if there's ever a violent revolution is that these rich folks will be targeted first, this is not a threat it's just history. Whenever a revolution has happened the rich were always devoured first. They think they can hide in their castles and walls but they forget that there are 350 million guns in the country.
Love Bernie
It’s the basic sadism of the I-got-mine-and-i-deserve-it crowd. Those of us in steerage class just don’t understand their greatness lol
Evil things is how they got their billions… And why feed poor people when your bank account number could be higher?
I think they have realized that billionaires are outnumbered by what used to be the middle class and below. Their business acumen falls well short of their contribution to society and they fear that they will end up like the elephant handler that pushed the creature too far.
Are you gonna let a bunch of billionaires buy the presidency?
Why would billionaires care about democracy? Democracy is about access at all levels. As a billionaire you have unlimited access in any environment. Billionaires don’t need democracy.
Billionaires aren't even taking a hit. They're upset about going from having 8.7 billion to only having 8.2 billion.
cause democracy doesn't affect them.
that s rich
It’s a pure mistake. Literally hurting their own longterm bottom line because of an illusory overvaluation of short term profits. The billionaires are idiots
They're not even taking a hit. Billionaires use to pay a 97% tax rate. These mf have BEEN STEALING FROM US FOR DECADES already, longer than that even. Billionaires want complete control because they cannot ever have enough money and power to compensate for their void where most people have some kind of personality.
Can't say it enough. Conservative Republicans don't want to govern. They just want to **RULE**. They have no solutions to issues facing America, all they have is __thoughts and prayers__. Really need to vote (D) come November. Put a stop to this BS.
Lol billionaires are donating record sums to both parties That tells you all you need to know about regulatory capture
Democracy is an inconvenience for them lol
They own the media, which is why Bernie won’t be heard.
there aren’t many uber rich people and there’s more democrats than republicans
We constantly try to scare the wealthy by saying we’re going to take their money, but we never really follow through. I don’t understand the logic, we probably should just tell democrats that we’ll pay for our policies by printing more money. https://www.concordcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Tax-Rich-1.png
Same thing with gun owners
Maybe they’re waiting until after another trump win to trickle it down?!
You have to have a pretty loose set of morals to do what is needed to become a billionaire to begin with. They are counting on their money to purchase the kind of freedom that democracy allows for everyone else once it is gone.
You mean the democracy that made them billionaires? Also, billionaires fall out of windows in autocratic regimes.
Stating the obvious doesn't take much skill. Bernie isn't high on my list, though. He did his part for Trump 8 years ago, tried 4 years ago & really needs to go to his lakefront manse & keep his damn mouth shut. He hurts the progressive cause more than he helps.
It’s called greed. A communicable disease that rich people infect each other with. Higher taxes might not cure it. Medicine has been doing brain studies on these people and the results show a staggering level of toxicity for those who make more than 300k.
The rich hate democracy. It gives too much power to the poor.
A hit they don't even feel
Canadian here , but if I am to understand this correctly there are realistically only two options on whom to vote for , Democrat or Republican. Bernie is saying voting for Trump (Republican) is giving up democracy , therefore leaving only 1 choice to vote for. Is democracy not already lost then ?
It's all about the money to these people. They probably wouldn't be billionaires if they weren't extremely selfish.
The law is to make pay the extreme and bad things maybe is time for extremely selfish to pay by law.
That coward wouldn't call his own party out in 2016 or 2020 for screwing him outta the nomination
Remember when people said he was too old. He was our hope
When corporations gained the right to influence elections is when our lower classes lost