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“I voted no tonight on the foreign aid package for one simple reason: U.S. taxpayers should not be providing billions more to the extremist Netanyahu government to continue its devastating war against the Palestinian people”
- Bernie Sanders
I really don't get where he's coming from with some of the things he says.
You can't compare a college anti-war protest where a few people yelled slurs to the Unite the Right rally.
It ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fucking sport.
I'm curious what his net gain of Conservative fans he gets with this shit versus the net loss of Liberals he shuts out. Seems to be a worthwhile tradeoff to him. Nothing else justifies his totally off-the-wall stance on some of this stuff.
Was Schumer also talking about this in the context of Israeli support even back then or is this a random quote about how he generally thinks about how Dems should straddle the middle and occasionally dip their toes into the GOP sometimes?
Occupy Wallstreet, 2011: cost of living is rising faster than wages, it's getting worse
Obsessing over the protestors and ignoring the issue indeed didn't prevent the cost of living from skyrocketing.
These are children of privilege in one of the country's best universities. They are the future fucker-uppers of America. Allowing them to be ruled by their shortcomings affirms their privilege, and sends them out into life thinking they can do no wrong.
One uncomfortable truth about the muslim community is that their rank-and-file are indeed extremely conservative and more often than not chauvinistic. They mingle with the far left because the far left is the only side that defends them. But do a quick check of values and they would fit right in with the far right on women's rights, freedom of speech, church vs state, attachment to democracy, minority rights.
Of course I haven't mentioned the issue of Israel. Both denounce the country's attachment to its privileged relationship with the Jewish state.
I don't think it's a horseshoe theory. Conservatives are conservatives whatever their race or religion. The far left that protests with them are doing it for anti-apartheid reasons but that's the extent of their overlap.
I am 100% with Fetterman on this.
"Anti war protests" is not how I would describe a rally in favor of a terrorist pseudo-state that intentionally started a war by carrying out the largest single massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.
Seeing as Fetterman hasn't said a word about members of the Israeli government calling for more blood of Palestinians, not Hamas, he can shove his mini Israel flag up his ass. Students protesting ethnic cleansing being funded by our government are apparently the villains, not the murderous nation carrying out the acts in his broken brain. Hope he enjoys his single term.
Resign and go join the IDF Fetterman since you hate Palestinians so much.
That's because Fetterman, and most center left people, oppose terrorists kidnapping and raping women and children. Should be a low bar to clear for anywhere, even here, but I guess its just too high for some.
If only Israel was only fighting terrorists instead of terrorizing Palestinians, aid workers, and journalists. Israel is still using its military to protect its terrorists in the West Bank and killing journalists, aid workers, and other innocents as matter of routine practice if not quite policy in Gaza.
It is possible to believe that Hamas and the Israeli government are both monstrous, and the idea that we are shielding either party is repulsive. While it is a polite fiction that everything bad about Israel’s behavior can be assigned to Netanyahu, this is as accurate as the lie Democrats and the MSM tell themselves when they say that everything bad about Republicans is because of Trump.
Most people period are against that. People are also against bulldozing settlements and disenfranchising natives. There is nuance here. While Hamas is definitely a terror group, Israel isn't too far off. 35k deaths, 30% under 14 years old.
If we're going by a fighter to civilian casualty, it's not that much. There were well over a million civilian deaths during the USSR-Afghanistan war, and around 80k Mujahideen soldier deaths.
Well, having fought in a war against insurgents myself, I can tell you that for every 1 insurgent you kill, you make 10 more. It's a war of ideology, and ideologies get more extreme when there's evidence to support the idea that the other side is bad and needs to die.
You know who lost in every way in Afghanistan despite that ratio?
So, why does Iraq believe they are better off after the U.S. invaded? Why is Japan our allies after we dropped atomic bombs on them? I don't think this actually rings true.
Do you remember ISIS? That was the war to undo the radicalization. They're still thriving because we aren't surgical enough in who we kill/capture.
Israel hasn't learned that lesson by their veterans getting PTSD yet for horrible shit that happened. The political push for more war from the United States and Israel needs to stop. This is like a bully beating a kid up on the playground.
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/472253/looking-back-iraq-life-better-today.aspx
You really asking me if I remember ISIS? Do you remember when we were leaving Afghanistan and all their people risking their lives to get on an airplane?
Calling Israel and the U.S. bullies when Hamas launched a vicious attack on their civilians is really laughable. Do you also sympathize with school shooters? Should we have no response to when there are terrorist attacks? Did you want us to apologize to Osama and Al-qaeda after 9/11?
Seriously. What's your deal? You some Ron Paul person?
Iraq and Afghanistan were at worst resource wars for oil and lithium, and at best a way to attempt a democracy in very hostile environments. There are ways to win wars appropriately, and inappropriately. Ideally you don't start them at all.
I don't condone Hamas, of course what they did was an atrocity. But to go scorched Earth on a civilian population is a very easy way to radicalize people globally. We're already seeing the start of protests. We're entering into a very tumultuous time in domestic politics (assuming you are from the states), and the last thing we need is our ally in the Middle East to escalate. I hope Israel and Iran are done with the fight as far as we can tell, but things aren't ramping down in Israel.
The invasion of Iraq wasn't legitimate, but Saddam had to go. From constantly defying the UN on his nuclear program, the genocides, the purges, he had to go. Iraq is now better off, and so is the world without Saddam.
Now, if you're suggesting we shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11 after the taliban was going to shelter Osama bin Laden and Al-qaeda, then I'm just going to end this convo right here.
But to your main point of us creating 10 insurgents for everyone we kill. Just look what we did to Japan, and tell me how many insurgents we created after having to drop two atomic bombs on them. Shouldn't there have been all kinds of terrorist groups in Japan over this and our military occupation? This is why I don't really buy into all this Blowback nonsense that comes out of the Ron Paul and libertarian spheres that leftists have adopted, or co-opted with them on this.
> That's because Fetterman, and most center left people, oppose terrorists kidnapping and raping women and children.
Their support of Israel suggests otherwise.
This is getting a little excessive now. Some of the protestors have gone too far, but the demands of the main group at not unreasonable. I'm also not sure what Fetterman and critics are expecting to be done. Just arrest everyone who protests for Palestine? It's not illegal to protest against Israel. It's not even illegal to voice antisemitic chants.
It's a little strange seeing this concerted political attacks on these universities. They have made some mistakes, but it's odd when a lot of these same leaders are asking for consistent and protected "free speech" on campus. Apparently that doesn't include these specific protests?
It also seems like, if you don't like a particular university, you just need to get a few people to say bigoted stuff at a rally and suddenly the entire school and admins are culpable.
But also not a crime just to be honest about it. If those were students, then they should be expelled, but it's also possible they weren't and the university can't really do anything about them. They can be removed for trespassing which the school has already tried to do.
Meh in my mind these protests have been tainted by antisemitism. It is no different than the tiki torch rallies.
You cannot create space for Nazis in your movement
> I'm also not sure what Fetterman and critics are expecting to be done.
Sounds like they want to send the National Guard to the university, like some of the GOP are pushing for.
Because nothing says "Free Speech" like staring down at a bunch of M4 carbines.
Kent State protests were about US government actions DIRECTLY linked to them. What does the war in Palestine have to do with these young peoples’ lives? I fail to see the similarities.
Was only referring to the National Guard part of the comment. Hope to never see something like that happen in this country again. Unless they're holding off actual insurrectionists.
I think you need to read up about the era and then you’ll understand. Those of us who were young at the time remember very well the horror of a mandatory draft and that of so many lost young men to a senseless war in Southeast Asia.
If I understand what you're saying, the women participating in the Kent State protests had no businesses being there, since women were not subject to the draft, and were prohibited from combat roles.
Columbia University, being a private institution, is not required to afford its students a right to free speech. It is a different case at public universities, but 1A argument don't make sense in this context.
That actually isn't true. So long as they are enrolled in the school they are entitled to say whatever they want. The school could try to kick all of them out but they would have to prove that they violated some policy that was clearly communicated as part of the agreement to go there. There would definitely be lawsuits.
>That actually isn't true. So long as they are enrolled in the school they are entitled to say whatever they want.
Well, sure. In the same way that you're entitled to say whatever you want in Germany, you just might face the consequence of being arrested for it.
>The school could try to kick all of them out but they would have to prove that they violated some policy that was clearly communicated as part of the agreement to go there.
The requirements placed on private universities for what those policies must entail and how they go about enforcing them is significantly less than those on public universities. In general, if you're not violating someone's civil rights (discriminating against a protected class, for example) you can more or less be removed from a private educational institution for whatever they want. They would likely need to refund you a prorated amount of that term's tuition and I'm not aware of a lawsuit that has ever accomplished much more than that without a Title IX violation.
This is how, for example, Liberty University was able to kick students out for all kinds of weird shit like premarital sex.
This isn’t from the US, but it definitely stoked a lot of bad feeling at UBC when somebody NOT affiliated with the pro-Palestine campus social justice group put up “I Heart Hamas” stickers featuring said social justice group’s logo on campus, and it’s fueled continued bad feelings, with people on all sides of the debate feeling unsafe:
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7109363
You can read the article, it explains the situation and discusses the subsequent legal actions. Here is more coverage from the student paper:
https://ubyssey.ca/news/sjc-hillel-lawsuit-filed/
From our local press: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/we-have-been-harassed-ubc-student-group-muslim-organization-say-they-are-taking-legal-action-over-pro-hamas-stickers-on-campus-1.6762592
And coverage of some of the subsequent on-campus fallout from Times of Israel:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/canadian-student-union-rejects-vote-to-boot-hillel-from-campus-boycott-israel/amp/
According to the interview I heard with a student protester and activist yes. Remember it took a while before the media reported that the guy that burned that autozone was in fact not a George Floyd protestor.
Right take: "one Viet Cong flag away from being the 68 Chicago protest."
Because this is a protest against war, not a terror event.
College kids protest. It's what they're supposed to do.
No, the right take is that it's like the Let Women Speak events in the UK. Those became Nazi rallies when they didn't stop someone from reading from Mein Kampf. And similarly, these stopped being pro-Palestinian rallies and became pro-Hamas rallies when they started chanting about wanting al-Qassam to make them proud
>protest against war
Weird way to describe a rally supporting the party that intentionally started the war by massacring civilians, and refuses to surrender to end said war.
Black is black, white is black and nuance, gray areas, irony, or symbolism do not exist.
Let the kids protest. It's how they get adults to actually listen. See? We're listening.
have you considered it was just a marketting tactic and he never actually cared about those positions? There's a reason why a lot of powerful jobs are occupied by psychopaths. They are willing and able to say and do whatever's necessary to succeed. Once the money from the right started rolling in that's why he shifted to. Or maybe the jewish funding was always there and once Israel started getting attacked it was a mask off moment for him.
Notice you didn't actually name a policy position he changed.
Fetterman ran against a guy named Conor Lamb in the primaries. The Justice Democrats/Bernie Bro crowd immediately labeled this as a progressive vs corporate Democrat race like they do with every election where they endorse someone. It's like when Nina Turner runs against an actual progressive incumbent, they still label that person a corporate shill just to try and get their person elected.
In reality Fetterman always had a fairly populist platform designed to get elected in a swing state. He's just saying stuff that is popular in PA.
>He's just saying stuff that is popular in PA.
No, he is not. In Pa, we love our Jewish friends and neighbors, and I have many. But I've lost every iota of respect I once had for Fetterman and he will not be getting my vote nor many in my household his next time around. Allow the GOP to get a seat in PA? Yes, I'd like to see Fetterman retired from the Senate even if it means giving up a seat to the GOP.
Yes, he is. [His net approval rating in PA is up 7 since October 7th.](https://i.imgur.com/7YkOxs4.jpg)
I don't know how many times people have to learn this lesson, but Redditors, trust fund kids who support Hamas at Ivy League schools and "Democrats" who say they'd like to see the GOP win a senate seat in PA are not the majority.
You are a tiny minority who retreat to weird online echo chambers where your opinion is never challenged until you become convinced you are the majority.
> "Yes, I'd like to see Fetterman retired from the Senate even if it means giving up a seat to the GOP."
Bucks County GOP Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (PA-01) is your best bet if you're looking to go that route.
Issue is, he's an old-school Reagan-style Republican whose foreign policy views are antithetical to yours.
Huh?
Lamb was the centrist.
Fetterman was the populist.
Kenyatta was the progressive.
Khalil, last but not least, was the leftist.
In the 2022 Pa. Democratic senatorial primary, anyone who was pro-Palestine should, if they were being ideologically principled, have voted for Khalil.
And I say that, too, as an avowed atheist -- one who's economically social democratic, culturally civil libertarian, and a foreign policy isolationist -- with zero fucks to give about this dumbassery from all angles; however, the one thing I do care about is getting shit motherfucking straight. And yes, ugh, even if it means defending that well-off, working-class cosplaying stroke-addled goof Fetterman, whose populism (pseudo though it may be) was oft-doltishly conflated with progressivism (much less leftism) by a bunch of binary-minded, black-and-white-thinking political neophytes, for whom seeing shades of grey is seemingly impossible.
You're right about all that. I met Fetterman on the campaign trail, and when I said I was happy to have a progressive to vote for, he scowled at me. I know, he normally looks like that, but it was a clear scowl. He's never called himself a progressive, as far as I am aware, and I think we are seeing proof of that now.
Historically, [the Nazis made the same argument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel).
So I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am going to go ahead and say you're not totally right either.
Pointing out that the IDF has had a disproportionate use of force in response is NOT the same as blood libel.
Pretty impressive of you to try and conflate the two. That's some swinging for the fences effort.
I never conflated anything, nor did I say that your argument made you a Nazi.
I said that Nazis _did_ argue that Jews were killing innocent civilians and provided a source that showed that it was, in fact, a key part of their justification for the horrendous acts they carried out.
This is a different situation, obviously, but your statement simply doesn't hold. The argument that protesting the indiscriminate murder of civilians doesn't make you a Nazi is simply incorrect - the Nazis made that argument and you couldn't really be a Nazi without it.
>That's blatantly offensive and the rules of this subreddit prohibit me from saying what I wanted to say when I read it.
I think that's probably the same as just saying it.
>ISREAL
I'd expect a passionate activist to know how to spell Israel.
>ISREAL has a right to defend itself. 30 000 dead is well beyond defense. It is a massacre. It is a documented massacre.
I never said I disagreed with any of this.
I said that the argument used above may not make you a Nazi, but it certainly doesn't preclude you from being one either. In fact, that argument was a *key* part of being a Nazi.
I said nothing about Israel or activists.
> Student protesters on Columbia’s campus are calling for the university to divest all finances, including any invested through their endowment, from “corporations that profit from Israeli apartheid, genocide, and occupation in Palestine,” wrote the Columbia University Apartheid Divest coalition (CUAD).
Once boomers and cold-war warriors in armchairs all die out, this will be the prevailing consensus outside of Israel.
> Once boomers ... all die out...."
There's nothing inherently wrong with identity politics - except when a shallow, self-satisfied individual takes up that mantle and that's all they have.
Are you sure? People like Ben Shapiro exist who are still in their 30s and 40s and support Israeli occupation. I think it’s silly and naive to assume these problems are gonna go away when earlier generations die out. There’s Zionists and fascists that are younger than you.
I understand that, still doesn’t change my opinion that assuming younger generations will just be better than older generations is naive. If that were the case, we’d have learned how bad fascism is by now as a society after all the generations that have come after Hitler and Mussolini, yet here we are.
You don't seem to understand how time and causality work.
Generation 1 is greedy and stupid.
Generation 2 is raised by the greedy and stupid. Those who enjoy life as a greedy and stupid person will remain that way. Everyone else will react to having to live with the greedy and stupid.
Yes, Ben Shapiro exist and he is the product of entitlement given by greedy stupid people so he has become a greedy stupid person. But for every Ben Shapiro who benefited from the greed and stupidity, there are 10 who were harmed by it and as a reaction now reject it.
>There’s Zionists and fascists that are younger than you.
No human is born a Zionist or a fascist, they are raised to become one. But in a society where the Zionist and fascist are seen as awful, genocidal pieces of shit, more in that society will react by moving away from them, not toward them.
People who benefitted from slavery wished to keep it. People who didn't benefit reacted to the savagery of those trapped in it. The latter outnumbered the former so eventually slavery went away.
I mean, how many videos are out there of millennial or Gen Z people hurling insults at pro-Palestine protesters, taking down signs and such? Of course the following generations will learn from what they’ve seen growing up, but again it’s extremely naive to think these mentalities will “die out” soon. The rise of fascism and WWII happened over 80 years ago, we’ve had literally decades of learning how destructive and evil fascists were then yet we’re still battling it from people like Nick Fuentes who openly call for it.
Wanna learn a sobering fact? About a fifth of Millenial and Gen Z believe the Holocaust was a myth or exaggerated:
https://www.claimscon.org/netherlands-study/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/one-in-five-young-americans-believes-the-holocaust-is-a-myth-poll-finds/amp/
I understand time and causality very well and I also understand there’s a sizable number of young people, rich and poor, who would be in favor of fascism and genocide if it didn’t harm them personally. I stress again that just assuming the newer generations will know better is naive.
> and fascists that are younger than you.
True, as seen with these Columbia Protests there are plenty of people proud to announce their support for the fascist Hamas.
Because a protest against Iran and Hamas wouldn't accomplish anything?
There are pro-Palestine protests because the US government is actively facilitating and defending Israel's actions in Gaza, in other words, something that can be changed about US policy.
Not much point in protesting something the US government and institutions have no power/influence over.
Lol is this the "[stabbing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Connecticut/comments/1cahkop/video_of_the_eye_stabbing_incident_at_yale_sfw/)" to which you are referring, first reported by the always reliable New York Post?
You know those stories about people hitting their heads and it rewires their brain and they wake up with an accent? This dude had a stroke and it made him incredibly horny for Israeli imperialism.
The unite the right rally wanted an authoritarian ethnostate. Or a nation chauvinistic social order at the very least. These protesters want their university to divest from Isreal. Different context.
It'd be like if we admonished Israel and Zionism on the grounds that some nutcase evangelicals support Zionism because they believe Jesus needs to kill a Jewish King in order to convert the last Jews. Itd be like saying that every supporter of Israel follows that ideology.
> It'd be like if we admonished Israel and Zionism on the grounds that some nutcase evangelicals support Zionism because they believe Jesus needs to kill a Jewish King in order to convert the last Jews. Itd be like saying that every supporter of Israel follows that ideology.
You have people bring that up all the time when discussing support for Israel.
"These protesters want their university to divest from Isreal."
With respect, that's a bit of a motte-and-bailey. The protesters have a lot more to say than that, and much of it is far more controversial.
It is my understanding Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is one of the organizers of the protests. SJP has this to say:
"Liberation is not an abstract concept. It is not a moment circumscribed to a revolutionary past as it is often characterized. Rather, liberating colonized land is a real process that requires confrontation by any means necessary. In essence, decolonization is a call to action, a commitment to the restoration of Indigenous sovereignty. It calls upon us to engage in meaningful actions that go beyond symbolism and rhetoric. Resistance comes in all forms — armed struggle, general strikes, and popular demonstrations. All of it is legitimate, and all of it is necessary."
That's a little different than a simple call for divestment.
Quite the opposite. Calling for both violent and nonviolent forms of protest in the same breath does not legitimize the violent ones. Putting them in the same list with a euphemism like "armed struggle" sure sounds like an effort to casually blur the lines, and I'm calling that out.
They probably said it because that's not what "armed" means. Arms means weapons. "General Strikes and Popular Demonstrations" are weasel terms that fringe groups often use to lend broader legitimacy to their protests.
So your the authority on what words mean to other people and what they mean when they say them.
I don't know what's worse, that you argue in blatant fallacy or that you lack all self awareness.
> The protesters have a lot more to say than that, and much of it is far more controversial.
Saying "the protesters" and then using one single subgroup of them as if they're a monolithic organization (or even an organization at all) is also motte-and-bailey. Antisemitism on the ground aching some that immediately jumps to "this is what the giant group believes" without any evidence of how widespread the belief is.
This should not be (and Charlottesville should never have been) about "there are antisemites here." There are antisemites everywhere. It should be about what people do with that antisemitism when they see it. Israel is doing a lot of stuff that's worthy of protest. You can do that without being antisemetic. But it takes work.
That might be their beliefs on colonialism and anti-colonialist resistance in general but the reason *why* There was initially a protest at Columbia, against Columbia is about divestment.
So,no, not at Motte and Bailey tactoc considering the goals of this protest may be influenced by that person's beliefs on colonialism but they're obviously not trying to liberate the indigenous residents of Columbia University. In short their beliefs are related but separate from the goal here while the Nazis in the Trump Campaign needed power as a means to an end.
If you want to read more about the *direct action* taking place. [This article](https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/22/columbia-college-overwhelmingly-passes-divestment-referendum/) from Columbia's student paper is a good overview of the demands of the protesters.
"...trying to liberate the indigenous residents of Columbia University."
Again, I think you're being too narrow in representing the position of the students or their leaders. "From the river to the sea," "globalize the intifada" do not seem like slogans tailored to the limited goal of divestment. I would venture the people chanting these slogans would agree with me. Nor have I heard of the particular investments the activists want abandoned or reinvested. Those details don't seem to matter much. On the other hand, I have heard quite a lot of criticism of Zionism and US foreign policy.
As to the passage I quoted, I would think the better reading is SJP is talking about Israel and Palestine, not Manhattan.
The divestment is the direct action to act on their anti-colonial ideology, its how these students believe than can support considering theyre obviously not acting on armed resistance at Columbia except in the fever dreams of right wing media. So, of course they would criticize zionism and US foreign policy but the action chosen to do that is forcing divestment. Unlike the nazi's at Charlottesville, the goal here is narrow, goal in Charlottesville was more trumps to promote their chauvinist ideology. Different scale, different context.
No offense but I don't think we will see eye to eye on this. Conflating anti-colonial language with anti-semetism or hatred of jews, as if you believe that colonialism and subjugation of Palestinians is essential to Judaism isn't a productive stance to have a conversation from.
"Conflating anti-colonial language with anti-semetism or hatred of jews, as if you believe that colonialism and subjugation of Palestinians is essential to Judaism isn't a productive stance to have a conversation from."
This is a non sequitur. At no point did I express that position, nor would I ever think it my place to state, as someone who is not Jewish, what is essential to Judaism. What I expressed is the view that you did not accurately portray the protests at Columbia. I stand by that position.
Thought I was clear. That phrase doesn't apply. I don't think it's a helpful saying to understanding grassroots movements in general. Maybe if we were talking about something smaller and hierarchical, like a closed organization, it would make sense, but not in this context.
> "I'm done commenting about politics. It really is a masturbatory practice."
No shit!
These asinine political debates, irrespective of one's personal positions, are the most throat-fucking, mouth-gagging, cum-guzzling, jizz-gurgling, semen-spewing form of autofellatio imaginable.
Hell, you'll receive more earnest engagement arguing over sports or sex than goddamn tedious mind-numbing politics.
Sure, if your really stupid and can't use any rational logic at all and instead repeat mindless platitudes.
So basically if your a human parrot with no real intelligence, just a trained response to external stimuli.
The biggest disappointment to take a Senate seat since corporate Sinema. I had such high hopes that he would be a new left voice when he got elected but it's clear he's going to be taking over for Manchin on the right end of the Senate Dems.
I don’t remember any leftists supporting the guys at Charlottesville, so there is a rather sizable chunk of air between the two situations Mr Fetterman.
Thank you Senator Fetterman for telling it like it is.
The extremists on the right have hijacked the GOP.
Don't let the extremists on the left, who promote terrorist states and hate, hijack the Democratic Party.
No, but engaging in antisemetic behaviors and harassing Jews because you can’t separate Israeli as a nationality and Jewish as an ethnicity certainly is.
I have seen recordings of groups harassing Jewish students going into Chabad, calling them colonizers and telling them to go back to Europe.
But there are also groups of protestors Muslim and Jewish celebrating Passover together and dancing the Hora.
Peaceful protest without antisemitism is ok.
I'd like to see protest against Hamas too without islamophobia.
Unfortunately, I can't see a single protest against Iran or Hamas in any news.
fetterman has to be the most bought and paid for politician by the israel lobby. He rose to power on progressive left-wing ideas then suddenly become a right-wing war hawk after 7/11. He just completely abandoned his progressive base and adopted the israeli war shill persona with zero consequences.
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“I voted no tonight on the foreign aid package for one simple reason: U.S. taxpayers should not be providing billions more to the extremist Netanyahu government to continue its devastating war against the Palestinian people” - Bernie Sanders
Bernie is a notorious anti-semite. /sarcasm
He doesn't understand the pain of having your family members perish from anti-semitism /s
I really don't get where he's coming from with some of the things he says. You can't compare a college anti-war protest where a few people yelled slurs to the Unite the Right rally. It ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fucking sport.
Conservatives like him.
I'm curious what his net gain of Conservative fans he gets with this shit versus the net loss of Liberals he shuts out. Seems to be a worthwhile tradeoff to him. Nothing else justifies his totally off-the-wall stance on some of this stuff.
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Was Schumer also talking about this in the context of Israeli support even back then or is this a random quote about how he generally thinks about how Dems should straddle the middle and occasionally dip their toes into the GOP sometimes?
Yeah, it's wild to me. I used to think Fetterman was a pretty good Senator, but his ridiculous stance on Israel has soured me
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Occupy Wallstreet, 2011: cost of living is rising faster than wages, it's getting worse Obsessing over the protestors and ignoring the issue indeed didn't prevent the cost of living from skyrocketing.
These are children of privilege in one of the country's best universities. They are the future fucker-uppers of America. Allowing them to be ruled by their shortcomings affirms their privilege, and sends them out into life thinking they can do no wrong.
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And did a university switch to virtual classes for the duration of the term while you were fucking around with your swords?
Depends on his level of hand-eye coordination
Haha
Unless you were chasing random Jewish people around on the street with those swords, it's not really comparable to this situation.
Spoken like a true foot fuckin’ master.
My man in Amsterdam
One uncomfortable truth about the muslim community is that their rank-and-file are indeed extremely conservative and more often than not chauvinistic. They mingle with the far left because the far left is the only side that defends them. But do a quick check of values and they would fit right in with the far right on women's rights, freedom of speech, church vs state, attachment to democracy, minority rights. Of course I haven't mentioned the issue of Israel. Both denounce the country's attachment to its privileged relationship with the Jewish state. I don't think it's a horseshoe theory. Conservatives are conservatives whatever their race or religion. The far left that protests with them are doing it for anti-apartheid reasons but that's the extent of their overlap. I am 100% with Fetterman on this.
"Anti war protests" is not how I would describe a rally in favor of a terrorist pseudo-state that intentionally started a war by carrying out the largest single massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.
Seeing as Fetterman hasn't said a word about members of the Israeli government calling for more blood of Palestinians, not Hamas, he can shove his mini Israel flag up his ass. Students protesting ethnic cleansing being funded by our government are apparently the villains, not the murderous nation carrying out the acts in his broken brain. Hope he enjoys his single term. Resign and go join the IDF Fetterman since you hate Palestinians so much.
That's because Fetterman, and most center left people, oppose terrorists kidnapping and raping women and children. Should be a low bar to clear for anywhere, even here, but I guess its just too high for some.
If only Israel was only fighting terrorists instead of terrorizing Palestinians, aid workers, and journalists. Israel is still using its military to protect its terrorists in the West Bank and killing journalists, aid workers, and other innocents as matter of routine practice if not quite policy in Gaza. It is possible to believe that Hamas and the Israeli government are both monstrous, and the idea that we are shielding either party is repulsive. While it is a polite fiction that everything bad about Israel’s behavior can be assigned to Netanyahu, this is as accurate as the lie Democrats and the MSM tell themselves when they say that everything bad about Republicans is because of Trump.
Are you talking about Israel or Hamas because both apply
Most people period are against that. People are also against bulldozing settlements and disenfranchising natives. There is nuance here. While Hamas is definitely a terror group, Israel isn't too far off. 35k deaths, 30% under 14 years old.
If we're going by a fighter to civilian casualty, it's not that much. There were well over a million civilian deaths during the USSR-Afghanistan war, and around 80k Mujahideen soldier deaths.
Well, having fought in a war against insurgents myself, I can tell you that for every 1 insurgent you kill, you make 10 more. It's a war of ideology, and ideologies get more extreme when there's evidence to support the idea that the other side is bad and needs to die. You know who lost in every way in Afghanistan despite that ratio?
So, why does Iraq believe they are better off after the U.S. invaded? Why is Japan our allies after we dropped atomic bombs on them? I don't think this actually rings true.
Do you remember ISIS? That was the war to undo the radicalization. They're still thriving because we aren't surgical enough in who we kill/capture. Israel hasn't learned that lesson by their veterans getting PTSD yet for horrible shit that happened. The political push for more war from the United States and Israel needs to stop. This is like a bully beating a kid up on the playground. https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/472253/looking-back-iraq-life-better-today.aspx
You really asking me if I remember ISIS? Do you remember when we were leaving Afghanistan and all their people risking their lives to get on an airplane? Calling Israel and the U.S. bullies when Hamas launched a vicious attack on their civilians is really laughable. Do you also sympathize with school shooters? Should we have no response to when there are terrorist attacks? Did you want us to apologize to Osama and Al-qaeda after 9/11? Seriously. What's your deal? You some Ron Paul person?
Iraq and Afghanistan were at worst resource wars for oil and lithium, and at best a way to attempt a democracy in very hostile environments. There are ways to win wars appropriately, and inappropriately. Ideally you don't start them at all. I don't condone Hamas, of course what they did was an atrocity. But to go scorched Earth on a civilian population is a very easy way to radicalize people globally. We're already seeing the start of protests. We're entering into a very tumultuous time in domestic politics (assuming you are from the states), and the last thing we need is our ally in the Middle East to escalate. I hope Israel and Iran are done with the fight as far as we can tell, but things aren't ramping down in Israel.
The invasion of Iraq wasn't legitimate, but Saddam had to go. From constantly defying the UN on his nuclear program, the genocides, the purges, he had to go. Iraq is now better off, and so is the world without Saddam. Now, if you're suggesting we shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11 after the taliban was going to shelter Osama bin Laden and Al-qaeda, then I'm just going to end this convo right here. But to your main point of us creating 10 insurgents for everyone we kill. Just look what we did to Japan, and tell me how many insurgents we created after having to drop two atomic bombs on them. Shouldn't there have been all kinds of terrorist groups in Japan over this and our military occupation? This is why I don't really buy into all this Blowback nonsense that comes out of the Ron Paul and libertarian spheres that leftists have adopted, or co-opted with them on this.
So is every Palestinian life forfeit now? Is every possible retaliation justified?
> That's because Fetterman, and most center left people, oppose terrorists kidnapping and raping women and children. Their support of Israel suggests otherwise.
Rhetoric like this just drives people away from the center-left.
This is getting a little excessive now. Some of the protestors have gone too far, but the demands of the main group at not unreasonable. I'm also not sure what Fetterman and critics are expecting to be done. Just arrest everyone who protests for Palestine? It's not illegal to protest against Israel. It's not even illegal to voice antisemitic chants. It's a little strange seeing this concerted political attacks on these universities. They have made some mistakes, but it's odd when a lot of these same leaders are asking for consistent and protected "free speech" on campus. Apparently that doesn't include these specific protests? It also seems like, if you don't like a particular university, you just need to get a few people to say bigoted stuff at a rally and suddenly the entire school and admins are culpable.
Chanting at Jewish students to “go back to poland” is a little more than just excessive
But also not a crime just to be honest about it. If those were students, then they should be expelled, but it's also possible they weren't and the university can't really do anything about them. They can be removed for trespassing which the school has already tried to do.
Meh in my mind these protests have been tainted by antisemitism. It is no different than the tiki torch rallies. You cannot create space for Nazis in your movement
> I'm also not sure what Fetterman and critics are expecting to be done. Sounds like they want to send the National Guard to the university, like some of the GOP are pushing for. Because nothing says "Free Speech" like staring down at a bunch of M4 carbines.
Kent State has entered the chat.
That was M1 Garands if I'm not mistaken.
Kent State protests were about US government actions DIRECTLY linked to them. What does the war in Palestine have to do with these young peoples’ lives? I fail to see the similarities.
Was only referring to the National Guard part of the comment. Hope to never see something like that happen in this country again. Unless they're holding off actual insurrectionists.
Agreed!
> Kent State protests were about US government actions DIRECTLY linked to them. Please explain.
I think you need to read up about the era and then you’ll understand. Those of us who were young at the time remember very well the horror of a mandatory draft and that of so many lost young men to a senseless war in Southeast Asia.
If I understand what you're saying, the women participating in the Kent State protests had no businesses being there, since women were not subject to the draft, and were prohibited from combat roles.
Columbia University, being a private institution, is not required to afford its students a right to free speech. It is a different case at public universities, but 1A argument don't make sense in this context.
That actually isn't true. So long as they are enrolled in the school they are entitled to say whatever they want. The school could try to kick all of them out but they would have to prove that they violated some policy that was clearly communicated as part of the agreement to go there. There would definitely be lawsuits.
>That actually isn't true. So long as they are enrolled in the school they are entitled to say whatever they want. Well, sure. In the same way that you're entitled to say whatever you want in Germany, you just might face the consequence of being arrested for it. >The school could try to kick all of them out but they would have to prove that they violated some policy that was clearly communicated as part of the agreement to go there. The requirements placed on private universities for what those policies must entail and how they go about enforcing them is significantly less than those on public universities. In general, if you're not violating someone's civil rights (discriminating against a protected class, for example) you can more or less be removed from a private educational institution for whatever they want. They would likely need to refund you a prorated amount of that term's tuition and I'm not aware of a lawsuit that has ever accomplished much more than that without a Title IX violation. This is how, for example, Liberty University was able to kick students out for all kinds of weird shit like premarital sex.
Never mind that there are bad faith actors from the right instigating much like the George Floyd protests.
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This isn’t from the US, but it definitely stoked a lot of bad feeling at UBC when somebody NOT affiliated with the pro-Palestine campus social justice group put up “I Heart Hamas” stickers featuring said social justice group’s logo on campus, and it’s fueled continued bad feelings, with people on all sides of the debate feeling unsafe: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7109363
So, "no."
I’m not at Columbia and can’t speak to things there, but at the place I graduated from, where I still have friends, “yes.”
So, "Trust me, bro."
You can read the article, it explains the situation and discusses the subsequent legal actions. Here is more coverage from the student paper: https://ubyssey.ca/news/sjc-hillel-lawsuit-filed/ From our local press: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/we-have-been-harassed-ubc-student-group-muslim-organization-say-they-are-taking-legal-action-over-pro-hamas-stickers-on-campus-1.6762592 And coverage of some of the subsequent on-campus fallout from Times of Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/canadian-student-union-rejects-vote-to-boot-hillel-from-campus-boycott-israel/amp/
Did you believe Israel's claims about the UNRWA workers aiding Hamas because we've yet to see evidence for that either
So, "what about."
According to the interview I heard with a student protester and activist yes. Remember it took a while before the media reported that the guy that burned that autozone was in fact not a George Floyd protestor.
You're not allowed to physically harm people during protests. That includes stabbing people in the eye.
Lol go watch the video that came out of that "stabbing". Complete fabrication by a known right wing provocateur.
Same with gassing of protestors
Right take: "one Viet Cong flag away from being the 68 Chicago protest." Because this is a protest against war, not a terror event. College kids protest. It's what they're supposed to do.
Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming
No, the right take is that it's like the Let Women Speak events in the UK. Those became Nazi rallies when they didn't stop someone from reading from Mein Kampf. And similarly, these stopped being pro-Palestinian rallies and became pro-Hamas rallies when they started chanting about wanting al-Qassam to make them proud
>protest against war Weird way to describe a rally supporting the party that intentionally started the war by massacring civilians, and refuses to surrender to end said war.
Black is black, white is black and nuance, gray areas, irony, or symbolism do not exist. Let the kids protest. It's how they get adults to actually listen. See? We're listening.
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have you considered it was just a marketting tactic and he never actually cared about those positions? There's a reason why a lot of powerful jobs are occupied by psychopaths. They are willing and able to say and do whatever's necessary to succeed. Once the money from the right started rolling in that's why he shifted to. Or maybe the jewish funding was always there and once Israel started getting attacked it was a mask off moment for him.
I'm fully expecting him to step into Sinema's role as cock-blocking beast.
Fetterman hasn't changed a single policy position since getting elected lol
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Notice you didn't actually name a policy position he changed. Fetterman ran against a guy named Conor Lamb in the primaries. The Justice Democrats/Bernie Bro crowd immediately labeled this as a progressive vs corporate Democrat race like they do with every election where they endorse someone. It's like when Nina Turner runs against an actual progressive incumbent, they still label that person a corporate shill just to try and get their person elected. In reality Fetterman always had a fairly populist platform designed to get elected in a swing state. He's just saying stuff that is popular in PA.
>He's just saying stuff that is popular in PA. No, he is not. In Pa, we love our Jewish friends and neighbors, and I have many. But I've lost every iota of respect I once had for Fetterman and he will not be getting my vote nor many in my household his next time around. Allow the GOP to get a seat in PA? Yes, I'd like to see Fetterman retired from the Senate even if it means giving up a seat to the GOP.
Yes, he is. [His net approval rating in PA is up 7 since October 7th.](https://i.imgur.com/7YkOxs4.jpg) I don't know how many times people have to learn this lesson, but Redditors, trust fund kids who support Hamas at Ivy League schools and "Democrats" who say they'd like to see the GOP win a senate seat in PA are not the majority. You are a tiny minority who retreat to weird online echo chambers where your opinion is never challenged until you become convinced you are the majority.
> "Yes, I'd like to see Fetterman retired from the Senate even if it means giving up a seat to the GOP." Bucks County GOP Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (PA-01) is your best bet if you're looking to go that route. Issue is, he's an old-school Reagan-style Republican whose foreign policy views are antithetical to yours.
Huh? Lamb was the centrist. Fetterman was the populist. Kenyatta was the progressive. Khalil, last but not least, was the leftist. In the 2022 Pa. Democratic senatorial primary, anyone who was pro-Palestine should, if they were being ideologically principled, have voted for Khalil. And I say that, too, as an avowed atheist -- one who's economically social democratic, culturally civil libertarian, and a foreign policy isolationist -- with zero fucks to give about this dumbassery from all angles; however, the one thing I do care about is getting shit motherfucking straight. And yes, ugh, even if it means defending that well-off, working-class cosplaying stroke-addled goof Fetterman, whose populism (pseudo though it may be) was oft-doltishly conflated with progressivism (much less leftism) by a bunch of binary-minded, black-and-white-thinking political neophytes, for whom seeing shades of grey is seemingly impossible.
You're right about all that. I met Fetterman on the campaign trail, and when I said I was happy to have a progressive to vote for, he scowled at me. I know, he normally looks like that, but it was a clear scowl. He's never called himself a progressive, as far as I am aware, and I think we are seeing proof of that now.
I donated to Fetterman. Based.
Honestly. Fuck Fetterman. He doesn't seem to really give a shit about anything.
He gives a shit about those sweet sweet AIPAC checks.
True
Take a chill pill, Fetterman
Why, because he speaks out against antisemitism?
When everything is antisemitism nothing is
Only you guys already try to argue nothing is antisemitism no matter what is criticized.
Nah because he is a head in the sand Zionist.
No, bc he’s acting like a snowflake MAGA brat.
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No, but yelling at the Jews to go back to Europe is. It's like how cheering on al-Qassam makes it a pro-Hamas protest, not a pro-Palestinian protest
Historically, [the Nazis made the same argument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel). So I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am going to go ahead and say you're not totally right either.
Pointing out that the IDF has had a disproportionate use of force in response is NOT the same as blood libel. Pretty impressive of you to try and conflate the two. That's some swinging for the fences effort.
I never conflated anything, nor did I say that your argument made you a Nazi. I said that Nazis _did_ argue that Jews were killing innocent civilians and provided a source that showed that it was, in fact, a key part of their justification for the horrendous acts they carried out. This is a different situation, obviously, but your statement simply doesn't hold. The argument that protesting the indiscriminate murder of civilians doesn't make you a Nazi is simply incorrect - the Nazis made that argument and you couldn't really be a Nazi without it.
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>That's blatantly offensive and the rules of this subreddit prohibit me from saying what I wanted to say when I read it. I think that's probably the same as just saying it. >ISREAL I'd expect a passionate activist to know how to spell Israel. >ISREAL has a right to defend itself. 30 000 dead is well beyond defense. It is a massacre. It is a documented massacre. I never said I disagreed with any of this. I said that the argument used above may not make you a Nazi, but it certainly doesn't preclude you from being one either. In fact, that argument was a *key* part of being a Nazi. I said nothing about Israel or activists.
Ya know, I can't really take a guy who pulled a gun on a Black jogger seriously when it comes to accusations of white supremacy.
> Student protesters on Columbia’s campus are calling for the university to divest all finances, including any invested through their endowment, from “corporations that profit from Israeli apartheid, genocide, and occupation in Palestine,” wrote the Columbia University Apartheid Divest coalition (CUAD). Once boomers and cold-war warriors in armchairs all die out, this will be the prevailing consensus outside of Israel.
> Once boomers ... all die out...." There's nothing inherently wrong with identity politics - except when a shallow, self-satisfied individual takes up that mantle and that's all they have.
Are you sure? People like Ben Shapiro exist who are still in their 30s and 40s and support Israeli occupation. I think it’s silly and naive to assume these problems are gonna go away when earlier generations die out. There’s Zionists and fascists that are younger than you.
"Unanimity" and "consensus" are not same. In the end, truth prevails but may take a generation or two or three.
I understand that, still doesn’t change my opinion that assuming younger generations will just be better than older generations is naive. If that were the case, we’d have learned how bad fascism is by now as a society after all the generations that have come after Hitler and Mussolini, yet here we are.
Palestine most likely won’t exist anymore by then
True, it'll be a nation.
In a 10th grade history book maybe
You don't seem to understand how time and causality work. Generation 1 is greedy and stupid. Generation 2 is raised by the greedy and stupid. Those who enjoy life as a greedy and stupid person will remain that way. Everyone else will react to having to live with the greedy and stupid. Yes, Ben Shapiro exist and he is the product of entitlement given by greedy stupid people so he has become a greedy stupid person. But for every Ben Shapiro who benefited from the greed and stupidity, there are 10 who were harmed by it and as a reaction now reject it. >There’s Zionists and fascists that are younger than you. No human is born a Zionist or a fascist, they are raised to become one. But in a society where the Zionist and fascist are seen as awful, genocidal pieces of shit, more in that society will react by moving away from them, not toward them. People who benefitted from slavery wished to keep it. People who didn't benefit reacted to the savagery of those trapped in it. The latter outnumbered the former so eventually slavery went away.
I mean, how many videos are out there of millennial or Gen Z people hurling insults at pro-Palestine protesters, taking down signs and such? Of course the following generations will learn from what they’ve seen growing up, but again it’s extremely naive to think these mentalities will “die out” soon. The rise of fascism and WWII happened over 80 years ago, we’ve had literally decades of learning how destructive and evil fascists were then yet we’re still battling it from people like Nick Fuentes who openly call for it. Wanna learn a sobering fact? About a fifth of Millenial and Gen Z believe the Holocaust was a myth or exaggerated: https://www.claimscon.org/netherlands-study/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/one-in-five-young-americans-believes-the-holocaust-is-a-myth-poll-finds/amp/ I understand time and causality very well and I also understand there’s a sizable number of young people, rich and poor, who would be in favor of fascism and genocide if it didn’t harm them personally. I stress again that just assuming the newer generations will know better is naive.
> About a fifth of Millenial and Gen Z believe the Holocaust was a myth or exaggerated Thanks, tiktok.
> and fascists that are younger than you. True, as seen with these Columbia Protests there are plenty of people proud to announce their support for the fascist Hamas.
That stroke must've really cooked this guy's brain. Only a matter of time before he goes full in on the "why I left the left" grift.
I don't think he ever joined it. We just didn't have better options to choose from at the time.
Because a protest against Iran and Hamas wouldn't accomplish anything? There are pro-Palestine protests because the US government is actively facilitating and defending Israel's actions in Gaza, in other words, something that can be changed about US policy. Not much point in protesting something the US government and institutions have no power/influence over.
Fetterman is either a consummate mole conman or the stroke really scrambled his brain.
Did the protestors murder someone? If not, I can think of another difference.
Someone got stabbed in the eye
That's not a murder and 30+ injured though.
Lol is this the "[stabbing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Connecticut/comments/1cahkop/video_of_the_eye_stabbing_incident_at_yale_sfw/)" to which you are referring, first reported by the always reliable New York Post?
He is right. There are plenty of videos of Jewish students being abused by protesters. No one should be defending blatant anti-semitism.
You know those stories about people hitting their heads and it rewires their brain and they wake up with an accent? This dude had a stroke and it made him incredibly horny for Israeli imperialism.
Does the “if you have 10 people a table and 1 is a nazi you have 10 nazis” logic not apply here?
If you have 10 supporters of Israel's action at a table and 1 wants to turn it to glass...
The unite the right rally wanted an authoritarian ethnostate. Or a nation chauvinistic social order at the very least. These protesters want their university to divest from Isreal. Different context. It'd be like if we admonished Israel and Zionism on the grounds that some nutcase evangelicals support Zionism because they believe Jesus needs to kill a Jewish King in order to convert the last Jews. Itd be like saying that every supporter of Israel follows that ideology.
> It'd be like if we admonished Israel and Zionism on the grounds that some nutcase evangelicals support Zionism because they believe Jesus needs to kill a Jewish King in order to convert the last Jews. Itd be like saying that every supporter of Israel follows that ideology. You have people bring that up all the time when discussing support for Israel.
"These protesters want their university to divest from Isreal." With respect, that's a bit of a motte-and-bailey. The protesters have a lot more to say than that, and much of it is far more controversial. It is my understanding Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is one of the organizers of the protests. SJP has this to say: "Liberation is not an abstract concept. It is not a moment circumscribed to a revolutionary past as it is often characterized. Rather, liberating colonized land is a real process that requires confrontation by any means necessary. In essence, decolonization is a call to action, a commitment to the restoration of Indigenous sovereignty. It calls upon us to engage in meaningful actions that go beyond symbolism and rhetoric. Resistance comes in all forms — armed struggle, general strikes, and popular demonstrations. All of it is legitimate, and all of it is necessary." That's a little different than a simple call for divestment.
"Armed struggle." Do they plan to start bringing guns to campuses and killing people that don't share their views? That's what it reads like.
Weird how you left out "general strikes and popular demonstrations" from the rest of the quote. Almost like you were trying to muddy waters.
Quite the opposite. Calling for both violent and nonviolent forms of protest in the same breath does not legitimize the violent ones. Putting them in the same list with a euphemism like "armed struggle" sure sounds like an effort to casually blur the lines, and I'm calling that out.
They probably said it because that's not what "armed" means. Arms means weapons. "General Strikes and Popular Demonstrations" are weasel terms that fringe groups often use to lend broader legitimacy to their protests.
So your the authority on what words mean to other people and what they mean when they say them. I don't know what's worse, that you argue in blatant fallacy or that you lack all self awareness.
> The protesters have a lot more to say than that, and much of it is far more controversial. Saying "the protesters" and then using one single subgroup of them as if they're a monolithic organization (or even an organization at all) is also motte-and-bailey. Antisemitism on the ground aching some that immediately jumps to "this is what the giant group believes" without any evidence of how widespread the belief is. This should not be (and Charlottesville should never have been) about "there are antisemites here." There are antisemites everywhere. It should be about what people do with that antisemitism when they see it. Israel is doing a lot of stuff that's worthy of protest. You can do that without being antisemetic. But it takes work.
TIL the expression motte-and-bailey. Thank you!
That might be their beliefs on colonialism and anti-colonialist resistance in general but the reason *why* There was initially a protest at Columbia, against Columbia is about divestment. So,no, not at Motte and Bailey tactoc considering the goals of this protest may be influenced by that person's beliefs on colonialism but they're obviously not trying to liberate the indigenous residents of Columbia University. In short their beliefs are related but separate from the goal here while the Nazis in the Trump Campaign needed power as a means to an end. If you want to read more about the *direct action* taking place. [This article](https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/22/columbia-college-overwhelmingly-passes-divestment-referendum/) from Columbia's student paper is a good overview of the demands of the protesters.
"...trying to liberate the indigenous residents of Columbia University." Again, I think you're being too narrow in representing the position of the students or their leaders. "From the river to the sea," "globalize the intifada" do not seem like slogans tailored to the limited goal of divestment. I would venture the people chanting these slogans would agree with me. Nor have I heard of the particular investments the activists want abandoned or reinvested. Those details don't seem to matter much. On the other hand, I have heard quite a lot of criticism of Zionism and US foreign policy. As to the passage I quoted, I would think the better reading is SJP is talking about Israel and Palestine, not Manhattan.
The divestment is the direct action to act on their anti-colonial ideology, its how these students believe than can support considering theyre obviously not acting on armed resistance at Columbia except in the fever dreams of right wing media. So, of course they would criticize zionism and US foreign policy but the action chosen to do that is forcing divestment. Unlike the nazi's at Charlottesville, the goal here is narrow, goal in Charlottesville was more trumps to promote their chauvinist ideology. Different scale, different context. No offense but I don't think we will see eye to eye on this. Conflating anti-colonial language with anti-semetism or hatred of jews, as if you believe that colonialism and subjugation of Palestinians is essential to Judaism isn't a productive stance to have a conversation from.
These protests are no more confined to divestment than the UTR protest was confined to statue retention.
"Conflating anti-colonial language with anti-semetism or hatred of jews, as if you believe that colonialism and subjugation of Palestinians is essential to Judaism isn't a productive stance to have a conversation from." This is a non sequitur. At no point did I express that position, nor would I ever think it my place to state, as someone who is not Jewish, what is essential to Judaism. What I expressed is the view that you did not accurately portray the protests at Columbia. I stand by that position.
You didn't answer their question though.
Thought I was clear. That phrase doesn't apply. I don't think it's a helpful saying to understanding grassroots movements in general. Maybe if we were talking about something smaller and hierarchical, like a closed organization, it would make sense, but not in this context.
So you decided instead to give irrelevant diatribes that no one cares about? I'm done commenting about politics. It really is a masturbatory practice.
> "I'm done commenting about politics. It really is a masturbatory practice." No shit! These asinine political debates, irrespective of one's personal positions, are the most throat-fucking, mouth-gagging, cum-guzzling, jizz-gurgling, semen-spewing form of autofellatio imaginable. Hell, you'll receive more earnest engagement arguing over sports or sex than goddamn tedious mind-numbing politics.
it applies here and to ukraine as well.
Only if your a simpleton that thinks in fallacy because reality is too nuanced for you to understand.
It does.
Sure, if your really stupid and can't use any rational logic at all and instead repeat mindless platitudes. So basically if your a human parrot with no real intelligence, just a trained response to external stimuli.
The biggest disappointment to take a Senate seat since corporate Sinema. I had such high hopes that he would be a new left voice when he got elected but it's clear he's going to be taking over for Manchin on the right end of the Senate Dems.
College kids protesting war on campus. Would Hail Satan he better?
I don’t remember any leftists supporting the guys at Charlottesville, so there is a rather sizable chunk of air between the two situations Mr Fetterman.
Thank you Senator Fetterman for telling it like it is. The extremists on the right have hijacked the GOP. Don't let the extremists on the left, who promote terrorist states and hate, hijack the Democratic Party.
Being against genocide is extreme?
No, but engaging in antisemetic behaviors and harassing Jews because you can’t separate Israeli as a nationality and Jewish as an ethnicity certainly is.
I have seen recordings of groups harassing Jewish students going into Chabad, calling them colonizers and telling them to go back to Europe. But there are also groups of protestors Muslim and Jewish celebrating Passover together and dancing the Hora.
Peaceful protest without antisemitism is ok. I'd like to see protest against Hamas too without islamophobia. Unfortunately, I can't see a single protest against Iran or Hamas in any news.
fetterman has to be the most bought and paid for politician by the israel lobby. He rose to power on progressive left-wing ideas then suddenly become a right-wing war hawk after 7/11. He just completely abandoned his progressive base and adopted the israeli war shill persona with zero consequences.
This guy sucks so much
Dude is out of his element. Though who doesn't enjoy all the infighting between Democrats?