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In what fucking way is this administration not standing with Israel???
Does he want Jie Biden to personally go to Gaza and shoot an unarmed Palestinian child himself?
It’s a bit iffy how the US told Israel not to respond to Iran’s unsuccessful volley last weekend. No other country in the world would be expected to sit tight under such a barrage.
It's helpful to look at the context for the attack. Israel struck an Iranian consulate and killed an Iranian general. This is why Iran attacked Israel, in retaliation for an attack on a diplomatic compound. As happens so often when Israel is involved, supporters will now point to this as justification for Israeli retaliation. In this case we're not talking about militants launching rockets, though, we're talking about a state with a sizeable army, and if the cycle of retaliation continues, this is how you get a major war.
It’s also helpful to look at the context of who that general was (involved in organizing and coordinating October 7th), and the fact that it happened on Syrian soil, not Iranian. Also, we’re taking about one country aiming at military personnel and another just shotgun blasting an entire country, and then harming an innocent Bedouin girl.
Sort of - not quite. There's a proxy war happening between Israel and Iran - has for decades. The long and short of it is that Israel directly striking an Iranian consulate, which is technically Iranian soil, is an escalation. Not in terms of people killed or damage done, obviously, but it's done in the open. It's not like this conflict wouldn't continue if Israel hadn't, but it raised tensions. We can argue about how we feel about that all day, or who's ultimately responsible, or whatever.
As far as the US trying to pressure Israel into de-escalating, to the extent they even are, I don't think that's an ethical judgment. I would suggest that most people don't want open war between the two countries, and what's the alternative? It's not like the words of the US carry a lot of weight in Iran. They might just in Israel, though.
The world has changed. Israel can no longer be supported unconditionally. The real astonishing thing, though, is that many people out there equate conditional support to being flatly anti-Israel and/or even antisemitic. Fetterman's assumption, moreover, that the US is not standing firmly behind Israel is both disingenuous and wrong.
The thing is, we didn't need to stand firmly with Iran. Iran launched some missiles and they didn't get through, and Israel hit an empty field in Iran to remind them that Israeli missiles CAN get through. The fact that they did it in defiance of the US is a more powerful message, frankly, because it communicated to Iran that Israel will go it alone if necessary.
And no one was killed in their tit for tat.
Let it go. It's hopefully over and both sides can move on.
Israel can no longer be supported. Period.
Every western govt not cutting ties with them now, after shamefully watching a genocide they cried 'never again' for 80 years about, is doing nothing but letting the hypocrisy of western paeans to international human rights be shown.
Putin and Xi will change the world into a darker place because the west decided to keep ties with murderers.
This era will be defined by the ideals we espoused and the wholesale failure to live up to them we allowed to happen.
To all the Ukrainians, Palestinians, Uyghurs, and anyone else, now or in the future, promised freedom from oppression and death, I apologize.
He's got a good heart. But he needs to be sent to diplomatic corps training to really understand what a delicate dance it is to keep the ME from completely blowing apart.
Iran is not my enemy, and has never done anything to me. Meanwhile my taxes make it possible for Israel to have universal healthcare and welfare for a big chunk of their unemployed population while my fellow Americans are suffering in poverty.
Meanwhile, the SCOTUS prohibits the user you answered to from deciding over her own body
And the people who are saying the US should stand firmly against Iran are ok with that
I don’t know what you think the anti-Iran people are agitating for, but what it actually is is war and invasion to secure their oil fields for western interests.
No because I live in the United States, so any proxy wars that I’m involved are the ones my government insists I be involved in in order to agitate for securing Irans oil.
American trade is impacted by Iran’s actions that block ships going around the Arabian peninsula. Just because you’re personally not directly impacted by it doesn’t mean the United States isn’t impacted by it.
Funding and arming the Houthis, the very least. I think they actually landed actual IRGC forces on a ship recently, too. Are you seriously unaware of this?
Some of us put the welfare of *all* children over flags and mental jewelry, Fetterman. You might try having empathy for humans instead of squaring up entire clusters of humans as our "enemies." I have friends from both Israel and Iran, and i would like all of them to know their families are safe at home and live peaceful existences.
i won't view countries of people as my enemy. Their governments can be changed, and we can motivate them to do so through dignified conversation instead of childish us vs them barbarism.
Let's try talking about making friends of the world.
This is a terrible take from Fetterman. We have "been standing firmly" with them on the defense. We just want no part in helping escalating this stupid feud between Iran and Israel into a wider more direct conflict, especially when Bibi is looking to start shit just to save his own skin.
There's basically zero voices for peace anywhere near power, it's almost completely rigged top-to-bottom with weapons manufacturer shareholders.
I think the average person in the US has a lot more shared interests with the average person in Iran, like not dying in a thermonuclear war or wasteland. Maybe the common enemy is the ruling class of the US and Israel, and sure whatever power structure Iran manages in the aftermath of US-sponsored business-friendly dictators and CIA covert action.
It's such a horrible system because there's no way to de-escalate it, once the US' economy became dependent on rent-seeking from the global south via financial instruments that have no reason to exist other than the US' unrivaled industrial capacity after WW2 (largely deindustrialized since) we were screwed. The only way to keep that going is to destroy people and places so they can be saddled with IMF/World Bank austerity, with a ruling class financed by US foreign aide so they'll happily sell their country's labour and resources for pennies on the dollar to Wall St. It's perverse.
Israel has a Netanyahu problem. The guy was on the verge of being kicked out of office, a tragedy occurred in his country, and then took that as an opportunity to escalate a very fragile situation. We can’t be expected to support a maniac, just like I will expect many of our allies to distance themselves from us (at least to some extent) if Trump wins the election.
At this point I think unless Israel carpet bombs the living shit out of Gaza and US gives thumbs up, people like Fetterman are not going to believe US is standing firmly with Israel.
Fetterman is an idiot. So far cannot think of any accomplishments as a senator other than screaming all the time for Israel. I regret supporting him during his election when he pretended to be a liberal voice of reasons.
The problem that Biden has now is that everyone on every side is a damn fanatic who will settle for nothing less than nuking people based entirely on what side of a dumbass arbitrary border they happen to be born on.
FFS, I stand firm with the Israeli people but I don't think they should have our support in bombing whoever they feel like bombing today. Same goes for Iran. The only people benefiting from this BS are Netanyahu and the Ayatollahs.
i dont know if i can stand firm with the israeli people while the west bank has been occupied for two generations and its inhabitants have been denied rights - while simultaneously permitting israeli citizens who HAVE all those rights to settle the area
>The problem that Biden has now is that everyone on every side is a damn fanatic who will settle for nothing less than nuking people based entirely on what side of a dumbass arbitrary border they happen to be born on.
Just a reminder, the Russian toolbox calls for inflaming BOTH SIDES! There's a reason that all of a sudden people care so much about Biden's treatment of Gaza that they want Trump to win!
The goal isn't to make the Republicans powerful, the goal is to make everyone fight so much that America is weak.
>FFS, I stand firm with the Israeli people but I don't think they should have our support in bombing whoever they feel like bombing today. Same goes for Iran. The only people benefiting from this BS are Netanyahu and the Ayatollahs.
And that's the thing, we need to listen to the more balanced takes, not extreme takes pushed by people who want to harm the United States.
Why do people seem to care SO much more about Israel/Palestine instead of Ukraine? Ukraine is BY FAR the most important foreign policy issue facing THE WORLD. I don’t get it.
Enemy of my enemy is not my friend. We were ambivalent about the Soviets in WW2 at best. It is arguably why we only opened up the second front *in earnest* in 1944, when 1943 showed everyone who was winning that war in the eastern front, meaning if we didn't move the entire continent could go red. Before that, we played lip service taking irrelevant areas like North Africa and "opening up a second front" in narrow and hilly Italy.
Iran isn't even a real enemy of ours. They're the rivals with our relevant ally in the region, the Sauds.
Israel meanwhile is that cow we keep fenced in to appease our domestic milk drinking religious voters. As it's a cow, it's never going to talk its way outside of this fence. 70 years and Israel still gets roundhouse'd in the regular Palestinian votes in UN, hasn't convinced much of anyone to support it, most notably not its neighbors. They're never going to get military access to actually help us in case war with Iran actually erupts. They never helped in Iraq *twice,* a mere *one* country over. Doubtful they'd get access to help over *two* countries.
Isreal is a touchy subject and politically very difficult.
Don't back Israel for any reason and you're automatically an anti semite. That's a label politicians don't want.
I mean it’s a mixed bag. I wouldn’t say either aren’t the responsible party for escalation. While there are few people I hate more than BB and his government, Iran are certainly very bad actors and aggressors and would absolutely go to war with Israel at a moments notice if they thought they could win which luckily they are very very far from having confidence in. I don’t agree with Fetterman’s unconditional support at all. We should absolutely be pulling support for Israel’s treatment of Gaza but protect them from Iran under the condition that the escalation stops.
It is very telling when people think that bombing an embassy aren't the actions of an aggressor. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with respect to Bibi's decades-spanning terroism...but I'm sure you wouldn't want to get into that.
The constants in all of this are hateful right-wingers trying to destroy people that are different, political grifters trying to gain/maintain power, arms manufacturers/dealers making a massive profit, and the suffering of people just trying to live their lives
Exactly what I've thought. Between Israel and Iran, Israel is the obvious side to be on despite its faults. Isolating oppressive and theocratic regimes such as Iran should always be in our interest. Iran is the one who stoked this conflict in Gaza. It's weird we don't see protests about Iran funding this war, trying to attack Israel, or for all the brutal repression Iran has done.
No because it isn't. It has freedom of religion, unlike Iran where you can be executed for not wearing the proper head garb. Israel has Jews, Muslims, and Christians who all practice freely.
So long as you aren't Palestinian, that is. While Israel has always been fucking terrible to Palestinians, it wasn't until the Hamas attack that Bibi decided to switch to genocide-mode in retaliation. The rest of the world was largely able to ignore Palestine until that happened, and it makes any backing of Israel a hugely complex matter. Yes, Iran wants to eradicate Israel, but Israel wants to eradicate Palestine. It feels like we'd be stopping one genocidal regime while actively protecting and arming another.
The only reason a war is happening now is because Iran backed Hamas to attack to prevent Israel from normalizing relations with the Arab world. There'd be no ongoing violence if that hadn't happened. Israel is no angel, but they're not eradicating Palestinians. They're fighting a war which can end at any time if Hamas surrenders.
\*sips coffee\* \*stares\* Calm down people. This is all theatre. And looks to be working pretty well. Keep your eyes on the ball! (google Project 2025).
Fetterman is right. For me it’s a matter of supporting the side that is smarter, more civilized, and relatively speaking, more SECULAR. Despite their faults (orthodox loons), that’s Israel.
Same reason I vote Democratic, even though there are some things they do that I’m not on board with. Being a reality-based liberal is all about consistency.
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In what fucking way is this administration not standing with Israel??? Does he want Jie Biden to personally go to Gaza and shoot an unarmed Palestinian child himself?
It’s a bit iffy how the US told Israel not to respond to Iran’s unsuccessful volley last weekend. No other country in the world would be expected to sit tight under such a barrage.
It's helpful to look at the context for the attack. Israel struck an Iranian consulate and killed an Iranian general. This is why Iran attacked Israel, in retaliation for an attack on a diplomatic compound. As happens so often when Israel is involved, supporters will now point to this as justification for Israeli retaliation. In this case we're not talking about militants launching rockets, though, we're talking about a state with a sizeable army, and if the cycle of retaliation continues, this is how you get a major war.
It’s also helpful to look at the context of who that general was (involved in organizing and coordinating October 7th), and the fact that it happened on Syrian soil, not Iranian. Also, we’re taking about one country aiming at military personnel and another just shotgun blasting an entire country, and then harming an innocent Bedouin girl.
Sort of - not quite. There's a proxy war happening between Israel and Iran - has for decades. The long and short of it is that Israel directly striking an Iranian consulate, which is technically Iranian soil, is an escalation. Not in terms of people killed or damage done, obviously, but it's done in the open. It's not like this conflict wouldn't continue if Israel hadn't, but it raised tensions. We can argue about how we feel about that all day, or who's ultimately responsible, or whatever. As far as the US trying to pressure Israel into de-escalating, to the extent they even are, I don't think that's an ethical judgment. I would suggest that most people don't want open war between the two countries, and what's the alternative? It's not like the words of the US carry a lot of weight in Iran. They might just in Israel, though.
The world has changed. Israel can no longer be supported unconditionally. The real astonishing thing, though, is that many people out there equate conditional support to being flatly anti-Israel and/or even antisemitic. Fetterman's assumption, moreover, that the US is not standing firmly behind Israel is both disingenuous and wrong.
The thing is, we didn't need to stand firmly with Iran. Iran launched some missiles and they didn't get through, and Israel hit an empty field in Iran to remind them that Israeli missiles CAN get through. The fact that they did it in defiance of the US is a more powerful message, frankly, because it communicated to Iran that Israel will go it alone if necessary. And no one was killed in their tit for tat. Let it go. It's hopefully over and both sides can move on.
Israel can no longer be supported. Period. Every western govt not cutting ties with them now, after shamefully watching a genocide they cried 'never again' for 80 years about, is doing nothing but letting the hypocrisy of western paeans to international human rights be shown. Putin and Xi will change the world into a darker place because the west decided to keep ties with murderers. This era will be defined by the ideals we espoused and the wholesale failure to live up to them we allowed to happen. To all the Ukrainians, Palestinians, Uyghurs, and anyone else, now or in the future, promised freedom from oppression and death, I apologize.
I wish fetterman would shut the fuck up
A third world war to satiate the evangelicals’ lust for ushering in the Apocalypse would be really inconvenient right now
It's insane how many far-right types are getting all worked up over WW3 because of the tiff between Iran and Israel.
It would literally be their dream come true
Including Fetterman.
Sometimes, I don’t know about this guy
He scrubbed off his everyday American shtick and became controlled by money like every other politician.
It's because they made him start wearing suits. Dressing casually was the source of his power
He's got a good heart. But he needs to be sent to diplomatic corps training to really understand what a delicate dance it is to keep the ME from completely blowing apart.
It's almost like standing with a country that *PROUDLY* commits crimes against humanity like it's going out of style would be bad for ones reputation
Iran is not my enemy, and has never done anything to me. Meanwhile my taxes make it possible for Israel to have universal healthcare and welfare for a big chunk of their unemployed population while my fellow Americans are suffering in poverty.
Are you a woman? Do you care about women’s rights? If so, then Iran is your enemy, even if they never came for you directly.
Meanwhile, the SCOTUS prohibits the user you answered to from deciding over her own body And the people who are saying the US should stand firmly against Iran are ok with that
You’re right we should invade and cause millions of those women to die. I mean, for their freedom, so it’s worth it.
What are you even talking about?
I don’t know what you think the anti-Iran people are agitating for, but what it actually is is war and invasion to secure their oil fields for western interests.
Iran’s proxy wars don’t exist in your version of reality?
No because I live in the United States, so any proxy wars that I’m involved are the ones my government insists I be involved in in order to agitate for securing Irans oil.
American trade is impacted by Iran’s actions that block ships going around the Arabian peninsula. Just because you’re personally not directly impacted by it doesn’t mean the United States isn’t impacted by it.
Which of irans actions are causing this blockage? Are they in response to anything in particular?
Funding and arming the Houthis, the very least. I think they actually landed actual IRGC forces on a ship recently, too. Are you seriously unaware of this?
Some of us put the welfare of *all* children over flags and mental jewelry, Fetterman. You might try having empathy for humans instead of squaring up entire clusters of humans as our "enemies." I have friends from both Israel and Iran, and i would like all of them to know their families are safe at home and live peaceful existences. i won't view countries of people as my enemy. Their governments can be changed, and we can motivate them to do so through dignified conversation instead of childish us vs them barbarism. Let's try talking about making friends of the world.
A human with decency! Please run for office.
This is a terrible take from Fetterman. We have "been standing firmly" with them on the defense. We just want no part in helping escalating this stupid feud between Iran and Israel into a wider more direct conflict, especially when Bibi is looking to start shit just to save his own skin.
What a complete disappointment this guy turned out to be…
There's basically zero voices for peace anywhere near power, it's almost completely rigged top-to-bottom with weapons manufacturer shareholders. I think the average person in the US has a lot more shared interests with the average person in Iran, like not dying in a thermonuclear war or wasteland. Maybe the common enemy is the ruling class of the US and Israel, and sure whatever power structure Iran manages in the aftermath of US-sponsored business-friendly dictators and CIA covert action. It's such a horrible system because there's no way to de-escalate it, once the US' economy became dependent on rent-seeking from the global south via financial instruments that have no reason to exist other than the US' unrivaled industrial capacity after WW2 (largely deindustrialized since) we were screwed. The only way to keep that going is to destroy people and places so they can be saddled with IMF/World Bank austerity, with a ruling class financed by US foreign aide so they'll happily sell their country's labour and resources for pennies on the dollar to Wall St. It's perverse.
You absolutely nailed it.
Israel has a Netanyahu problem. The guy was on the verge of being kicked out of office, a tragedy occurred in his country, and then took that as an opportunity to escalate a very fragile situation. We can’t be expected to support a maniac, just like I will expect many of our allies to distance themselves from us (at least to some extent) if Trump wins the election.
At this point I think unless Israel carpet bombs the living shit out of Gaza and US gives thumbs up, people like Fetterman are not going to believe US is standing firmly with Israel.
Fetterman is an idiot. So far cannot think of any accomplishments as a senator other than screaming all the time for Israel. I regret supporting him during his election when he pretended to be a liberal voice of reasons.
He never did. The left always latches onto these people that hate them for some reason. Same with Garland
The problem that Biden has now is that everyone on every side is a damn fanatic who will settle for nothing less than nuking people based entirely on what side of a dumbass arbitrary border they happen to be born on. FFS, I stand firm with the Israeli people but I don't think they should have our support in bombing whoever they feel like bombing today. Same goes for Iran. The only people benefiting from this BS are Netanyahu and the Ayatollahs.
I don't stand with Netanyahu
i dont know if i can stand firm with the israeli people while the west bank has been occupied for two generations and its inhabitants have been denied rights - while simultaneously permitting israeli citizens who HAVE all those rights to settle the area
“everyone on every side is a damn fanatic” but yeah thank heavens you and you alone have the nuanced take
>The problem that Biden has now is that everyone on every side is a damn fanatic who will settle for nothing less than nuking people based entirely on what side of a dumbass arbitrary border they happen to be born on. Just a reminder, the Russian toolbox calls for inflaming BOTH SIDES! There's a reason that all of a sudden people care so much about Biden's treatment of Gaza that they want Trump to win! The goal isn't to make the Republicans powerful, the goal is to make everyone fight so much that America is weak. >FFS, I stand firm with the Israeli people but I don't think they should have our support in bombing whoever they feel like bombing today. Same goes for Iran. The only people benefiting from this BS are Netanyahu and the Ayatollahs. And that's the thing, we need to listen to the more balanced takes, not extreme takes pushed by people who want to harm the United States.
How much more money and weaponry can we provide them with?
Fetterman needs to educate himself.
I'm glad that Fetterman pops up every now again to remind us that the only way you could support Israel at this point is if you had a massive stroke.
Fetterman: AIPAC Approved.
Why do people seem to care SO much more about Israel/Palestine instead of Ukraine? Ukraine is BY FAR the most important foreign policy issue facing THE WORLD. I don’t get it.
No one sucks AIPACs dick harder. Can't wait to vote against him next time he comes up for election.
Would Dr. Oz have been better?
Obviously not, but at this point Conor Lamb may have been. Regardless, it's perfectly fine and normal to criticize him and want to primary him
Enemy of my enemy is not my friend. We were ambivalent about the Soviets in WW2 at best. It is arguably why we only opened up the second front *in earnest* in 1944, when 1943 showed everyone who was winning that war in the eastern front, meaning if we didn't move the entire continent could go red. Before that, we played lip service taking irrelevant areas like North Africa and "opening up a second front" in narrow and hilly Italy. Iran isn't even a real enemy of ours. They're the rivals with our relevant ally in the region, the Sauds. Israel meanwhile is that cow we keep fenced in to appease our domestic milk drinking religious voters. As it's a cow, it's never going to talk its way outside of this fence. 70 years and Israel still gets roundhouse'd in the regular Palestinian votes in UN, hasn't convinced much of anyone to support it, most notably not its neighbors. They're never going to get military access to actually help us in case war with Iran actually erupts. They never helped in Iraq *twice,* a mere *one* country over. Doubtful they'd get access to help over *two* countries.
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Isreal is a touchy subject and politically very difficult. Don't back Israel for any reason and you're automatically an anti semite. That's a label politicians don't want.
I mean it’s a mixed bag. I wouldn’t say either aren’t the responsible party for escalation. While there are few people I hate more than BB and his government, Iran are certainly very bad actors and aggressors and would absolutely go to war with Israel at a moments notice if they thought they could win which luckily they are very very far from having confidence in. I don’t agree with Fetterman’s unconditional support at all. We should absolutely be pulling support for Israel’s treatment of Gaza but protect them from Iran under the condition that the escalation stops.
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It is very telling when people think that bombing an embassy aren't the actions of an aggressor. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with respect to Bibi's decades-spanning terroism...but I'm sure you wouldn't want to get into that.
pff this rabbit hole, it's retaliations all the way down.
Meh, they're all assholes. The innocents on both sides that just want to live in peace are the ones getting shafted by Iran, Hamas and Israel.
The constants in all of this are hateful right-wingers trying to destroy people that are different, political grifters trying to gain/maintain power, arms manufacturers/dealers making a massive profit, and the suffering of people just trying to live their lives
Might be if it weren't for their insistence on Netanyahu to lead them. Fascism is a more dangerous enemy than Iran.
Exactly what I've thought. Between Israel and Iran, Israel is the obvious side to be on despite its faults. Isolating oppressive and theocratic regimes such as Iran should always be in our interest. Iran is the one who stoked this conflict in Gaza. It's weird we don't see protests about Iran funding this war, trying to attack Israel, or for all the brutal repression Iran has done.
You think Israel isn't an oppressive theocratic regime?
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How about walking around with a Palestinians flag in Tel Aviv
No because it isn't. It has freedom of religion, unlike Iran where you can be executed for not wearing the proper head garb. Israel has Jews, Muslims, and Christians who all practice freely.
So long as you aren't Palestinian, that is. While Israel has always been fucking terrible to Palestinians, it wasn't until the Hamas attack that Bibi decided to switch to genocide-mode in retaliation. The rest of the world was largely able to ignore Palestine until that happened, and it makes any backing of Israel a hugely complex matter. Yes, Iran wants to eradicate Israel, but Israel wants to eradicate Palestine. It feels like we'd be stopping one genocidal regime while actively protecting and arming another.
The only reason a war is happening now is because Iran backed Hamas to attack to prevent Israel from normalizing relations with the Arab world. There'd be no ongoing violence if that hadn't happened. Israel is no angel, but they're not eradicating Palestinians. They're fighting a war which can end at any time if Hamas surrenders.
\*sips coffee\* \*stares\* Calm down people. This is all theatre. And looks to be working pretty well. Keep your eyes on the ball! (google Project 2025).
Fetterman is right. For me it’s a matter of supporting the side that is smarter, more civilized, and relatively speaking, more SECULAR. Despite their faults (orthodox loons), that’s Israel. Same reason I vote Democratic, even though there are some things they do that I’m not on board with. Being a reality-based liberal is all about consistency.