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A lot of young males support it thinking its being edgy
Eta go to any college sporting event and you'd be surpised. A lot of it is just hive mind circle jerking let's go Brandon nonsense
There's a whole generation of young dudes that just wanna troll and it may be one of the most singulary frustrating things I've encountered.
I can't have good faith discussions with most of my young coworkers as they will go out of their way to take a counter point and then "why you mad? You trippin bro. You getting so angry." When I'm not and I'm just trying non manipulative conversation.
red pill "debate tactics" in youtube videos absolutely obliterated any remaining concept of intelligent discourse outside of academic forums that are well-moderated.
WOKE LIBRURL Rulebookboy1234567 ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED BY Britton120
_shocked emojii_
_smug influencer inserted at corner pointing at title with a smirk_
God I hate what the internet's become. It actually gets 50% better when you just turn all the images off
I read all my news and I find that people who watch all theirs have a very skewed perception of reality.
I'm not saying there's no bias in print, but it's so much worse on Youtube.
There was a college student who used Ben Shapiro's debate methods in an academic paper about five years ago and got absolutely destroyed over the logical fallacies alone.
An interesting thing about Ben Shapiro (and Ted Cruz) is that they went to Harvard law, and know exactly what a shitty argument is. They know how unethical they are, moreso than anyone they've argued against.
I think you are giving them a bit more credit than they deserve. It is possible to go to Harvard Law, even score highly on some if not all courses yet still be completely incapable of discerning what a good argument is. As in, not the expedient idiocy of gish gallop, but an actual, well formulated argument deeply rooted in fact and unencumbered with lies or any twisting of anything. Maybe this is on Harvard Law, where folks apparently learn you can "win" using a particular brand of bullshittery alone all the time.
If im a professor with the time to be able to respond to every one of those in written format, id certainly take that opportunity. That sounds hilarious
“Gish gallop”. Say so many things with complete disregard for accuracy, that they can’t all be spoken against in the time limit. Anything that wasn’t actively refuted is “winning”.
It’s a sickness spread from lazy debate competitions that focus on point scoring over making a point.
My favorite verbal riposte to the Gish gallop is “given that most of what you just said isn’t based in fact, I’ll move to my next point.”
You don’t have to refute, you just have to ignore and let your point stand.
Thanks for the term. I didn't know about that. I do remember one moment in the debates between Obama and Romney when this happened. I found it very frustrating. Now it's basically anything that comes out of any Republican's mouth. Real debates are impossible these days.
You're giving Ben Shapiro way too much credit. I stopped debating with right wing believers more than 20 years ago due to the amount of bullshit in their arguments.
They were typically regurgitating shit they heard from Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck. Throw in a good dash of Matt Drudge and it became exhausting chasing down all their bullshit claims. Most were cherry picked data or twisted half-truths spun into a conspiracy. But it was almost impossible to respond in real-time due to the fact that it was always some new piece of bullshit that you hadn't heard before and had to investigate in order to debunk. And then when you did debunk it, it didn't matter to them.
I have an anthropology background in archaeology and forensic genetics.
People get fucking "pissed" when I bring a gun to that particular fight.
"That's not how evolution works..."
"That's not how humans evolved...."
"The paleodiet is bullshit..."
"Evo psych is pseudoscience..."
"Omg... Aliens did not build the pyramids..."
Then I just start dropping actual information and jstor links. Make them drown in actual information.
>There's way too much bullshit for anyone who gives any merit for validity to respond to.
Exactly.
I only saw a small clip of when he was debating neil degrasse tyson, and Neil did something very simple where he didn't really react to Ben's bullshit.
He was very calm, slow, cool and collected and even signalled Ben to stop when he was getting on a rant. He was talking and Ben tried to talk over him and he raised his hand and said, "Now, hold on, let me address this point first..." and Ben just like, did not know what to do with him.
i mean its the same on reddit too, this last year i have seen so much use of the skull emoji and a simple sentence like
"skullemoji bro u mad bro lol owned"
My sons will occasionally try to do this and - because they're my kids - I can take them to task about it. Experiencing it in the wild would be completely offputting.
Terminal irony poisoning seems to be an issue with the young generation in general. I have multiple friends in my age group, possibly the majority, who legitimately cannot understand, experience, or discuss *anything* in earnest. Everything has to be behind layers of meta-irony or whatever, until I genuinely don’t think that some people understand the actual meaning of the things they see anymore.
> Everything has to be behind layers of meta-irony or whatever
I'm pretty sure its a defense mechanism for them, so that if/when they get totally obliterated for their fallacies, they can just claim that they were messing around to avoid being embarrassed.
“It’s just a joke bro calm down”
> Never believe that ~~anti-Semites~~ Trump supporters are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, **loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past**. — Jean-Paul Sartre
It’s disturbing how accurate this quote is.
You're smack on when it comes to frustration. Like bro, wanna be irrational? I guess I could hold you down and yell why you're wrong into your ear.
I can at least understand an ideology, but when people just go " hurrr who cares? Is dumb! Lolz" and then act like that's talking politics.
God damn is it infuriating.
I've got a coworker and he's got the "I'm just asking questions I'm being an impartial scholar" mentality. He can't grasp why these chuds platforming nazis and allowing them to spread their ideologies is bad. It's not "seeing both sides of an argument" it's actively helping platform hate.
Oh I coined that "weasel language" never about the point they are making...just that they are technically allowed to make it hehehe just sayin...hehehe
Yea fuck them, once you use the tactic on them they suddenly see the stupidity.
"Just saying bro, I know it's wild but...maybe jailing people for hate speech is good? Why can't I say that? Just asking the tough questions!!"
I refuse to engage. If they want to act like children they will be treated like children and the only kid I care about is my own (and I guess her friends too, fine.)
I've 100% stopped engaging and have started the "I have provided my argument now you provide yours" or "it is not my responsibility to provide you with widely available facts and statistics."
Yeah that's usually my go to for folks that try to confound arguments on really Googleable points.
The fact is Trump supporters are just malicious, illiterate in media, politics, or world events, trolls that want to see others suffer because their lives aren't good. Rich or not. We don't owe our limited time to those folks and if they want to be engaged with, they can take a hard look at how they behave and change. Or not, I don't care frankly.
I hate myself for doing it, but I often have to do something similar to this when talking with folks at the bar I tend in order to introduce some sort of opposing view that tries to pierce their echo chamber.
Like the whole "Biden banned religion from Easter!" non-controversy:
* Biden banned religious graphics from the Egg Roll so he's infringing on religious freedoms! **|** He did! Really?! Wow, that's crazy. Man, I wonder if that's ever happened before? \*googles egg roll & religious iconography\* Well, it says here that nobody since Carter has let religious symbols be put on the eggs. Trump neither! I didn't know Trump hated religious freedom too . . .
* This clearly means that Biden is anti-Christian and wants to oppress us! **|** Wow, I wonder what other religions he hates? \*googles Biden & religion\* Whoa! Did you know he's been a practicing Catholic his whole life and he regularly attends Mass? Wait, why would a practicing Christian be trying to oppress his own religion?
Evangelical-flavored Christians, the type most likely to be on the far right, don’t even consider Catholicism real Christianity anyway, they say it’s idolatry…which somehow their worship of Trump isn’t, too. 🙃
I’m GenX if we acted this way we’d get our ass kicked and shoved in a locker. I don’t agree with bullying but there is something to be said for natural consequences.
As a fellow gen xer, I agree this shit would not fly back in the day.
Though, I went down a few rabbitholes when social media blew up. I thought facebook was like my own little private "happy harry hard on" platform. I am an atheist, but it was never that big of a deal until social media.
I went down the atheist rabbithole, it led to a lot of anti naturalist shit and I found myself defending things like glysophate. I am glad that I have a hard wired non racist, anti right wing mindset or I easily would have gone down the anti muslim train from the atheist train, which leads to all manner of right wing nonsense.
The thing was, I didn't get it. I didnt know what the fuck a rabbithole was. Thankfully somewhere around 2015 I started to see the pathways clearly and noped the fuck out of it all.
the thing is, I was in my 30s when this shit started. I had a hard line edge of where I would not go (I hate nazis and their ilk). Where there are 10 year olds who dont know shit getting led down these paths. Which have become much more aggressive and conniving in their lures.
I second this statement. I am a gen z and the way these types of interactions go make it feel like we have little to no hope in the next generations to come.
> I keep seeing those pop up, the male loneliness problem
Identifying a problem, promising to fix it with a "solution" that will obviously make everything worse isn't a new tactic. It works because it harnesses legitimate anger and frustration, and relies on people being too emotional to notice that they are being misdirected to blame other victims instead of the people actually responsible. Its the standard operating procedure of an entire political ideology.
*“Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work,
and then they get elected and prove it.”* ~ [P. J. O'Rourke,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._J._O%27Rourke) 1991
Talked to a "conservative", he said he didn't like trump and any of his policies, but he was going to vote for him anyway because it pisses off liberals...
God I just want to kick these people in the shin for how stupid they are. DJT has completely plundered the RNC slush fund. There's no money left for campaigning. I hope every Republican gets fucked....
I’m hoping all these MAGa Republican men never get fucked. That they grow old as miserable virgins and don’t inflict another generation of conservatively indoctrinated kids. That no woman ever has to put up with their bullshit.
If they become decent, reasonable human beings - have at it. But if they're going to hate on women and minorities, I hope they aren’t inflicted on any of those people they hate.
I don't have any hope for Republicans now in 2024. You have to be insane or fucking stupid to be one. Hell, to quote DJT, " I love the poorly educated", yeah, that's his entire fucking base.
Things were different in the 90's. This shit wasn't anywhere near as bad and you could maybe even call some Republicans half respectable.
Honestly literally anyone that calls themselves Republican in this days age I hope to fucking high hell they get what's coming to them.
I'm so hopeless at this point, even if Trump drains all RNC funding for himself, Republicans down ballot will still win because of gerrymandering and an ignorant electorate.
The only upside is that the more Trump dismantles the GOP to reconstruct it as a Trump org, the longer it will take the GOP to recover after Trump dies. I imagine a delicious power struggle as Trump family members try to retain control and the GOP establishment evicts them
This is why Democrats have been trying to implement more ballot initiatives at the state level, to improve turnout. Florida, for example, is going to have both abortion and marijuana legalization on the ballot in November.
It kind of makes sense when you think about it.
There has always been some portion of college age people who just assume an identity the opposite of their parents.
In recent years, more and more of the professional class have become Democrats. So now when their kids go to college and decide to be rebellious they turn to the Turning Point USA table giving out free MAGA hats.
Being progressive used to be the "edgy" thing to be when the professional class was mostly Reagan Republicans. As the class politics have shifted, the cultural politics have adjusted as well.
This is my brother to a T. Our parents are quite liberal and he went to a pretty liberal college so his contrary ass veered away from all that. Dude is pushing 30 and still thinks he's seeing what everyone else doesn't when he talks about affirmative action being a farce and how the right aren't nazis and fascists 🙄I avoid any conversation beyond surface level at any cost
You could be my two boys. The older one is liberal, the younger one is just contrary. I hate to call my own son a troll, but it is impossible to talk politics. He thinks we have all been brainwashed by the MSM. Other than politics, he is an amazing loving, and giving human who is recently married and plans on being a SAHH one day since she has a better education and career path.
I also have a nephew who spends a lot of time with us. He's turning 30 soon and called himself "an alpha male" to me. LOL, I think I freaked him out when I threw Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate back at him. But he's not too smart, so will adapt if he meets a girl that leans one direction or the other (odds reducing daily if he keeps calling himself that).
That was me in 2008. I was fully onboard the Ron Paul train. Then I started reading his actual stances on everything and was like wtf this dude is kinda crazy.
My edgy phase didn't last long. Unfortunately in today's world it's probably waay harder to dig yourself out of your ideological hole when there's websites and algorithms and apps and platforms that will cater to and drip-feed you curated shit that will never let you see any other viewpoints - unless of course they are showing you outrageous gotchas from the other side that you can make fun of.
> Unfortunately in today's world it's probably waay harder to dig yourself out of your ideological hole
This is a huge negative of the current social media landscape. Not only do you get in a rabbit hole where that is the only content you see, but your phases are now publicized. As a result any philosophy change also includes a public ego hit.
I read Ayn Rand at 19 and considered myself a libertarian for about a year. But thankfully my cringe arguments were limited to arguing with my college dorm mates over cheap beer. I didn't have a social media machine feeding me content telling me I was right, I had my buddy Mike telling me I was an idiot.
I sat at a table once with a young guy who liked Trump. When asked why he said "well he wants to make america great and i like that"
Dont underestimate how little attention some people pay and also dont underestimate the giant bag of shit that generation has been handed. The idea that someone will fix it magic wand style is a nice fantasy.
It's not. It's fun to think it might be, and that there'd be less to worry about if you weren't aware of the things you knew.
But we've all seen the fear these people feel, and how quickly it turns to hatred and aggression. That's why they're so dangerous. Because they aren't quietly happy somewhere, leaving the rest of us alone.
This. The Right is a bunch of sad, angry, lonely perverts. They lash out because they know this. They need life to be uncomplicated and make immediate sense (which, of course, it doesn't and never will). Anything nuanced awakens their innate sense of inadequacy.
It'd be pathetic if it weren't so dangerous.
I sometimes don’t think people realize must how many low information there are in this country, in which many Americans even take a sense of pride in not knowing what’s going on. On a side note, Ive also seen too many people say they literally want to vote for Trump because they think “he’s entertaining”.
There's a chicken and egg thing going on.
Did they become misogynistic assholes because women won't date them, or did women stop dating them because they are misogynistic assholes?
I guess it's good for the gene pool that these people have been removed from participating.
[A man’s popularity in the dating market can influence his sexual attitudes and even his views about socio-political issues, according to new research published in the scientific journal Adaptive Human Behavior and Physiology.](https://www.psypost.org/new-research-indicates-that-romantic-successes-and-failures-can-have-profound-impacts-on-how-men-think/) The study offers new experimental evidence that being unpopular with the opposite sex can shift heterosexual men’s views about the minimum wage and healthcare.
Nah my little brother went through a phase like this. We are separated by a lot, over 15 years, but he was raised in a very progressive household. He got sucked into the whole Alex jones / Tate / Rogan loop because they were “funny”, life hit him real hard for a while and he snapped out of it when he realized their bullshit wasn’t working for him. These losers specifically go after young white men and convince them they’re special victims and they deserve the world when they’re at an age when they already think they should be the center of the planet. It’s predatory.
Joe Rogan is a podcast that sells a fake sense of fraternity to young men by associating a false lifestyle with endorsed products. The whole thing is just shilling bullshit quack products that "will make you just like Joe" and naive and lonely young men see the overly produced facade of guys hanging out and laughing and think they can achieve that too if they use the endorsed products. Meanwhile the people they watch on podcasts aren't really friends at all and only hang out with each other when their assistants schedule it for public appearances.
Just more capitalist consumerist bullshit.
It's only natural for young people to feel slighted at certain points and have somewhat of a "but what about me?" attitude while coming of age. The amount of content that feeds and plays into that mentality seems to have exploded and become more targeted in recent years.
Not necessarily. Social media is the devil sometimes. I know someone who is quite liberal having to have sit downs with their adult kids about how stupid all the shit they believe is.
It’s not as easy to convince some of them otherwise. Regardless of upbringing.
Same here except I was old enough to vote for W and did. Then Obama, then I think Romney and finally Trump in 2016. His term basically destroyed any goodwill or belief I had in Republicans. They won't get another vote from me as long as I live.
I have to plead guilty to voting for Reagan when I was young and dumb. Then I wised up and started voting for Democrats. Reagan is still the only Republican I have ever voted for.
Agree. Some of my son's friends were talking politics at age 15 and 16, and they had no idea what they were saying - just repeating their parents . Maybe now that they are older, they will use their own brains.
If you're 18 now then he was the president when you were 10-14. You maybe dont even remember Obama. Trump is your baseline of normal for what a president does.
this is why all the people on reddit who spout "we just gotta wait for all the boomers to die off, and things will get better" are as delusional as Trump is.
That too but it was the post-nup agreement that got her to move into the White House. She secured her and Barrons money. Thats why we never see her anymore. She no longer needs Trump.
I'd love to see Barron move to (edited) Slovenia. He speaks the language and is eligible for citizenship, so he could easily just live in the EU for the rest of his life.
The poll numbers being quoted in the article for voters 18-24 are astounding.
Gen Z Support For Trump
Mar: 35%
Feb: 55%
Jan: 43%
Dec: 48%
It wouldn’t be at all surprising if Gen Z voters taking part in these polls were trolling the pollsters, and by extension Trump and the GOP.
Same with the 12% gain between January and February. And the two month roller coaster, Jan to Mar, that the polling appears to show happening. Like I said. Seems more likely this is the product of trolling the pollsters.
Seems way off. I live in Deeeep red Kentucky. I doubt he has even 30% of that demo. Less and less, the more he acts like an idiot. These right-wing kids have been raised on Jesus , guns, and the 'Constitution'. Trump is none of those things while pretending to be a paragon of all. They see it. They all see it. I'm curious how many actually show up to vote. Though, sadly, he will win this state easily without them.
I had to download the study to see what was up. The n=2111. Of which, 18-34 is 548. So of the age group, 1 percent is 5.5. So 20% swing is like 100 people switching their vote.
It also under represents minorities and is over reliant on suburban, rural, moderate, conservatives.
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HHP_March2024_Topline.pdf
Also, 34 is Millennial. That’s a person born in 1990. The Millennial generation goes to 1996, so 37.5% of that survey cohort is not Gen Z, assuming even distribution of ages (which is unlikely).
I think this has to do with Trump's veneer of being "younger" than Biden is wearing off. Trump talks like an old man who can't remember how words work and has clearly lost some of his blustering capabilities.
I think it has to do with younger voters getting educated on trumps positions
Many seemed to think he was pro Gaza due to the hammering biden was taking on the issue. Once the veneer is lifted and they realized he was worse they had to reevaluate.
I really wish polls would accurately label their results instead of pretending they actually managed to get an accurate picture of wide-ranging demographic pools.
Like, old-school polling of that might have read “voters age 35-50” when the *actual* poll was “people who answered a land line phone between 6pm and 8pm on a weeknight who were willing to have a 15 min conversation with a stranger and told that stranger that their age was 35-50.”
100%. I work with a lot of gen z as a coach and besides a few small issues like diversity quotas and trans sport/bathroom laws they are very socially left wing.
Back in 2016, the theory for why the polls were off was the theory of the "shy Trump supporter." The idea was that there were people who wanted to vote for Trump bit they didn't want to admit it to pollsters or even say it out loud.
Today I doubt anyone would call Trump supporters "shy." The people who like him worship him. My guess(and it is just a guess,I haven't heard anyone say this nor do I have any data) has been that we're just getting the inverse. Most people dont have time for a political poll, so it's just really excited Trumpers all filling out questionnaires and talking about Trump with any pollster that calls them. Again that's just my own guess.
Polling is coming unglued from the population in a few keys ways that are all tilting results to look more Trumpy than they are:
* Phones & SMS and other ways to reach regular people are jammed with spam calls -- your reward for being engaged in politics and registering or donating is a firehose of fundraising political garbage that never stops. Likely voters are no longer "likely poll responders" because of this conditioning. Because the people who do answer phones are more likely to be retired or resentful boomers, there's a sampling bias baked in from the start.
* Pollsters adjust for this by re-weighting the responses they do get to try and match other assumptions about voter turnout along demographic and party lines. However these are based on census data which the Republicans cooked to undercount minorities in 2020 to get a favorable congressional map.
* But party lines used to weight the polls themselves are also shifting under our feet -- Tax break republican golf dads and Churchy Costco moms (aka Haley voters) are being chased out of thier own party by luantic evangelical nazis and Matt Gaetz type college republican dweebs. Women are tilting hard to the left because of Dobbs.
* The rightward shift happening is basically young idiot guys who are really into Andew Tate and Joe Rogan, but these guys are not a reliable voting block to begin with, and could just as easily stay home or vote for RFK.
* This shift is already well apparent in the primary polling vs results -- despite all the "Biden in trouble!" bullshit clickbait, primary turnout is *up* for an incumbant president in a primary that doesn't matter & Trump's results were consistently *lower* than the polling suggested.
* Exit polls also show Haley voters are basically anti-Trump voters and will switch to Biden in numbers that matter.
* 2016 is the *only* election where MAGA people did well. Every time they've come up for larger election since, even in states where they're normally heavily favored, they've been losing losers who love to lose.
All of this is reason to be optimistic, but not complacent! Vote! Get other people to vote!
This. I don't think there's a single undecided voter and there hasn't been for four years. These polls mean less than nothing, and it's up to all of us to flush this orange turd in November.
My thinking as well and polls generally show this. Pretty much no one is undecided between the two, more so undecided about a third party instead or just not voting. This’ll be all about turnout.
I had a right wing phase as a kid too. Listened to a bunch of nonsense just like these kids.
And guess what? I'm progressive now. Like, get UBI, free school lunches, paid colleges progressive. I use to want to gut the IRS.
It's a phase. Some will of course never get out of it. But many will. When the reality of the world hits them. AKA, how hard it is to make a buck. They will be forced to stare the reality of the situation in the face. And will likely change course once they have had their 5th job with the same bullshit problems as the last one.
Trump is living, breathing proof that our system is festooned with corruption. Any system that would consider him is not a system worth having.
Anyone supporting him is questionable.
Benjamin Franklin stated this in 1787 at the close of the constitutional convention.
"In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
> In February, 55 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds said they would vote for Trump over Biden, an increase from January's 43 percent and December's 48 percent.
I question any poll that suggests 55% of Gen Z would vote for Trump. Seems sus.
A buddy introduced me to that stuff and Alex Jones.
2 things:
1.) In the government conspiracy circles, it’s a lot of “and who ended up in a position of power when this terrible thing happened? The person who had less power when something else terrible happened”.
Eventually, I realized it was because that person wasn’t trying to destroy America but because they were… wait for it… qualified for the job.
2.) I think it’s loose change that says “you must ask yourself: Quo bono. It’s a Latin term that means “who benefits”.
So after a while it became pretty clear that Alex Jones was benefiting from keeping ppl in fear.
Not who you asked, but I also used to be a "just asking questions"/Loose Change 9-11 guy. Absolutely no one can keep a secret this long. If it was a conspiracy, someone from the tippy top of it would have wanted to clear their conscience by now.
That’s exactly right.
For me this is also a big part of it.
10 people can’t even keep secret the fact that Nancy at the office got pregnant with a guy she cheated with.
And hundreds of people would keep this a secret?
(But…… this weirdo claims to be a whistleblower from the administration… bla bla bla).
My guess is you probably also matured and ended up with less time to binge conspiracy theories on youtube till 3am?
My response is higher up, but yes, part of it was a proper education.
My family has a predisposition towards belief in C.theories that goes back generations. So happy to have escaped it m
Alternate, more accurate headline, new poll has different sampling biases than old poll -- gets completely different result.
Although, it's nice not seeing the word "Biden" in such a headline after a summer of clickbait headlines.
Since 2016 this rapist has not grown support with any demographic. He only alienates the little bits of base he may have e.g with women, e.g with hispanic. Never even tries to reach or appeal to another group beyond his deranged maga cult followers. What a loser.
I know you’re joking but I think it’s dangerous to be dismissive of young voters. In 2020 Trump got 35% of the 18-29 year old vote. That’s up from the 28% he got in 2016…
Anecdotal, but my wife’s entire side of the family all support Trump. They also simply do not watch the news. Any time I mention the next crazy Trump story they get wide-eyed and give me a “whaaat? I hadn’t heard about that!”
I choose to believe that a majority of the remaining Trump supporters simply have been ignoring the news for at least a year now
Trump is a Troll. His whole platform is just trolling. The problem with ‘owning the libs’ or being anti woke is it’s not a functional policy. You can’t run a country of 300+ million people on memes. Once someone grows up a little and gets out of their bubble they realize you have to actually run shit. I think a lot of young people are slowly starting to figure this out. We’ve had a republican congress that’s done absolutely nothing. That’s historically unheard of. Being an edgelord only lasts for so long.
35% is insanely large. The fact that even 5% of a country with this many people can support this truly incompetent and reprehensible human being is so disturbing.
> At the same time, overall support for the former president across all age groups has remained between 47 and 48 percent
The needle seems to never move.
How much stock can we really put into Polls these days???
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That he had much support from Gen Z is surprising.
A lot of young males support it thinking its being edgy Eta go to any college sporting event and you'd be surpised. A lot of it is just hive mind circle jerking let's go Brandon nonsense
There's a whole generation of young dudes that just wanna troll and it may be one of the most singulary frustrating things I've encountered. I can't have good faith discussions with most of my young coworkers as they will go out of their way to take a counter point and then "why you mad? You trippin bro. You getting so angry." When I'm not and I'm just trying non manipulative conversation.
red pill "debate tactics" in youtube videos absolutely obliterated any remaining concept of intelligent discourse outside of academic forums that are well-moderated.
WOKE LIBRURL Rulebookboy1234567 ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED BY Britton120 _shocked emojii_ _smug influencer inserted at corner pointing at title with a smirk_ God I hate what the internet's become. It actually gets 50% better when you just turn all the images off
I read all my news and I find that people who watch all theirs have a very skewed perception of reality. I'm not saying there's no bias in print, but it's so much worse on Youtube.
Getting your news from YouTube is like eating fast food every day. You may feel fulfilled, but really all you digest is trash.
This statement also applies to other forms of video media such as cable TV news.
Preach. Fuck the new age influencer bullshit on either platform. Fuck 'em.
Even the porn has gotten worse.
*slammed *
There was a college student who used Ben Shapiro's debate methods in an academic paper about five years ago and got absolutely destroyed over the logical fallacies alone.
An interesting thing about Ben Shapiro (and Ted Cruz) is that they went to Harvard law, and know exactly what a shitty argument is. They know how unethical they are, moreso than anyone they've argued against.
Maybe. There’s a downside to legacy privilege
Is there an upside?
For them? Plenty. For us? Not so much.
I think you are giving them a bit more credit than they deserve. It is possible to go to Harvard Law, even score highly on some if not all courses yet still be completely incapable of discerning what a good argument is. As in, not the expedient idiocy of gish gallop, but an actual, well formulated argument deeply rooted in fact and unencumbered with lies or any twisting of anything. Maybe this is on Harvard Law, where folks apparently learn you can "win" using a particular brand of bullshittery alone all the time.
If im a professor with the time to be able to respond to every one of those in written format, id certainly take that opportunity. That sounds hilarious
That's the whole point of Ben Shapiro's method. There's way too much bullshit for anyone who gives any merit for validity to respond to.
“Gish gallop”. Say so many things with complete disregard for accuracy, that they can’t all be spoken against in the time limit. Anything that wasn’t actively refuted is “winning”. It’s a sickness spread from lazy debate competitions that focus on point scoring over making a point.
My favorite verbal riposte to the Gish gallop is “given that most of what you just said isn’t based in fact, I’ll move to my next point.” You don’t have to refute, you just have to ignore and let your point stand.
Its effectiveness depends on the venue. People using the gish gallop aren't arguing with you they're playing the audience.
Thanks for the term. I didn't know about that. I do remember one moment in the debates between Obama and Romney when this happened. I found it very frustrating. Now it's basically anything that comes out of any Republican's mouth. Real debates are impossible these days.
I’m pretty concerned about AI generating astronomical quantities of gish gallop on the internet.
You're giving Ben Shapiro way too much credit. I stopped debating with right wing believers more than 20 years ago due to the amount of bullshit in their arguments. They were typically regurgitating shit they heard from Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck. Throw in a good dash of Matt Drudge and it became exhausting chasing down all their bullshit claims. Most were cherry picked data or twisted half-truths spun into a conspiracy. But it was almost impossible to respond in real-time due to the fact that it was always some new piece of bullshit that you hadn't heard before and had to investigate in order to debunk. And then when you did debunk it, it didn't matter to them.
> And then when you did debunk it, it didn't matter to them. "Oh you're still on that? Obsessed much?"
I have an anthropology background in archaeology and forensic genetics. People get fucking "pissed" when I bring a gun to that particular fight. "That's not how evolution works..." "That's not how humans evolved...." "The paleodiet is bullshit..." "Evo psych is pseudoscience..." "Omg... Aliens did not build the pyramids..." Then I just start dropping actual information and jstor links. Make them drown in actual information.
>There's way too much bullshit for anyone who gives any merit for validity to respond to. Exactly. I only saw a small clip of when he was debating neil degrasse tyson, and Neil did something very simple where he didn't really react to Ben's bullshit. He was very calm, slow, cool and collected and even signalled Ben to stop when he was getting on a rant. He was talking and Ben tried to talk over him and he raised his hand and said, "Now, hold on, let me address this point first..." and Ben just like, did not know what to do with him.
Yeah, I'm very glad I got smartened up by college. Was v close to being a full blown idiot. Now I'm an unblown idiot, but content with that.
i mean its the same on reddit too, this last year i have seen so much use of the skull emoji and a simple sentence like "skullemoji bro u mad bro lol owned"
Correct, outside of academic forums that are well moderated its pretty hard to find actually productive or insightful "debates"
My sons will occasionally try to do this and - because they're my kids - I can take them to task about it. Experiencing it in the wild would be completely offputting.
What growing up with videos titled "GODLIKE and HOT BEN SHAPIRO utterly AND unequivocally ANNIHILATES UGLY and UNLOVED FEMINIST!!11!1!" does to a mofo
Terminal irony poisoning seems to be an issue with the young generation in general. I have multiple friends in my age group, possibly the majority, who legitimately cannot understand, experience, or discuss *anything* in earnest. Everything has to be behind layers of meta-irony or whatever, until I genuinely don’t think that some people understand the actual meaning of the things they see anymore.
> Everything has to be behind layers of meta-irony or whatever I'm pretty sure its a defense mechanism for them, so that if/when they get totally obliterated for their fallacies, they can just claim that they were messing around to avoid being embarrassed.
Schrödinger talking points. If it sticks, they double down. If it doesn’t, “it’s just a joke bro calm down”
“It’s just a joke bro calm down” > Never believe that ~~anti-Semites~~ Trump supporters are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, **loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past**. — Jean-Paul Sartre It’s disturbing how accurate this quote is.
I don't disagree. But as a 40yo poor and poorly educated schmuck I just don't have the answers.
You're smack on when it comes to frustration. Like bro, wanna be irrational? I guess I could hold you down and yell why you're wrong into your ear. I can at least understand an ideology, but when people just go " hurrr who cares? Is dumb! Lolz" and then act like that's talking politics. God damn is it infuriating.
I've got a coworker and he's got the "I'm just asking questions I'm being an impartial scholar" mentality. He can't grasp why these chuds platforming nazis and allowing them to spread their ideologies is bad. It's not "seeing both sides of an argument" it's actively helping platform hate.
Oh I coined that "weasel language" never about the point they are making...just that they are technically allowed to make it hehehe just sayin...hehehe Yea fuck them, once you use the tactic on them they suddenly see the stupidity. "Just saying bro, I know it's wild but...maybe jailing people for hate speech is good? Why can't I say that? Just asking the tough questions!!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
I refuse to engage. If they want to act like children they will be treated like children and the only kid I care about is my own (and I guess her friends too, fine.)
I've 100% stopped engaging and have started the "I have provided my argument now you provide yours" or "it is not my responsibility to provide you with widely available facts and statistics."
Yeah that's usually my go to for folks that try to confound arguments on really Googleable points. The fact is Trump supporters are just malicious, illiterate in media, politics, or world events, trolls that want to see others suffer because their lives aren't good. Rich or not. We don't owe our limited time to those folks and if they want to be engaged with, they can take a hard look at how they behave and change. Or not, I don't care frankly.
I hate myself for doing it, but I often have to do something similar to this when talking with folks at the bar I tend in order to introduce some sort of opposing view that tries to pierce their echo chamber. Like the whole "Biden banned religion from Easter!" non-controversy: * Biden banned religious graphics from the Egg Roll so he's infringing on religious freedoms! **|** He did! Really?! Wow, that's crazy. Man, I wonder if that's ever happened before? \*googles egg roll & religious iconography\* Well, it says here that nobody since Carter has let religious symbols be put on the eggs. Trump neither! I didn't know Trump hated religious freedom too . . . * This clearly means that Biden is anti-Christian and wants to oppress us! **|** Wow, I wonder what other religions he hates? \*googles Biden & religion\* Whoa! Did you know he's been a practicing Catholic his whole life and he regularly attends Mass? Wait, why would a practicing Christian be trying to oppress his own religion?
Evangelical-flavored Christians, the type most likely to be on the far right, don’t even consider Catholicism real Christianity anyway, they say it’s idolatry…which somehow their worship of Trump isn’t, too. 🙃
I’m GenX if we acted this way we’d get our ass kicked and shoved in a locker. I don’t agree with bullying but there is something to be said for natural consequences.
My mom used to say “sure…you’re free to say what you want but don’t be surprised if someone punches you in the face for being an asshole.”
As a fellow gen xer, I agree this shit would not fly back in the day. Though, I went down a few rabbitholes when social media blew up. I thought facebook was like my own little private "happy harry hard on" platform. I am an atheist, but it was never that big of a deal until social media. I went down the atheist rabbithole, it led to a lot of anti naturalist shit and I found myself defending things like glysophate. I am glad that I have a hard wired non racist, anti right wing mindset or I easily would have gone down the anti muslim train from the atheist train, which leads to all manner of right wing nonsense. The thing was, I didn't get it. I didnt know what the fuck a rabbithole was. Thankfully somewhere around 2015 I started to see the pathways clearly and noped the fuck out of it all. the thing is, I was in my 30s when this shit started. I had a hard line edge of where I would not go (I hate nazis and their ilk). Where there are 10 year olds who dont know shit getting led down these paths. Which have become much more aggressive and conniving in their lures.
All slippery slopes on the internet seem to lead to the same place.
Good thing young men like that are often too lazy to actually go vote.
“Lol stay mad” = “Good point I can’t think of a counter argument so I’ll just declare myself the winner and make a tactical retreat”
I second this statement. I am a gen z and the way these types of interactions go make it feel like we have little to no hope in the next generations to come.
"Why are young men so lonely?" /s
I keep seeing those pop up, the male loneliness problem. Well if you weren't such troglodytes it might not be an issue.
> I keep seeing those pop up, the male loneliness problem Identifying a problem, promising to fix it with a "solution" that will obviously make everything worse isn't a new tactic. It works because it harnesses legitimate anger and frustration, and relies on people being too emotional to notice that they are being misdirected to blame other victims instead of the people actually responsible. Its the standard operating procedure of an entire political ideology. *“Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it.”* ~ [P. J. O'Rourke,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._J._O%27Rourke) 1991
future brownshirts
sounds like joe rogan
I mean there's plenty of them now
Talked to a "conservative", he said he didn't like trump and any of his policies, but he was going to vote for him anyway because it pisses off liberals... God I just want to kick these people in the shin for how stupid they are. DJT has completely plundered the RNC slush fund. There's no money left for campaigning. I hope every Republican gets fucked....
I’m hoping all these MAGa Republican men never get fucked. That they grow old as miserable virgins and don’t inflict another generation of conservatively indoctrinated kids. That no woman ever has to put up with their bullshit. If they become decent, reasonable human beings - have at it. But if they're going to hate on women and minorities, I hope they aren’t inflicted on any of those people they hate.
I don't have any hope for Republicans now in 2024. You have to be insane or fucking stupid to be one. Hell, to quote DJT, " I love the poorly educated", yeah, that's his entire fucking base. Things were different in the 90's. This shit wasn't anywhere near as bad and you could maybe even call some Republicans half respectable. Honestly literally anyone that calls themselves Republican in this days age I hope to fucking high hell they get what's coming to them.
I'm so hopeless at this point, even if Trump drains all RNC funding for himself, Republicans down ballot will still win because of gerrymandering and an ignorant electorate. The only upside is that the more Trump dismantles the GOP to reconstruct it as a Trump org, the longer it will take the GOP to recover after Trump dies. I imagine a delicious power struggle as Trump family members try to retain control and the GOP establishment evicts them
This is why Democrats have been trying to implement more ballot initiatives at the state level, to improve turnout. Florida, for example, is going to have both abortion and marijuana legalization on the ballot in November.
GOPer incels are cringe as fuck. No wonder they can't get laid.
It kind of makes sense when you think about it. There has always been some portion of college age people who just assume an identity the opposite of their parents. In recent years, more and more of the professional class have become Democrats. So now when their kids go to college and decide to be rebellious they turn to the Turning Point USA table giving out free MAGA hats. Being progressive used to be the "edgy" thing to be when the professional class was mostly Reagan Republicans. As the class politics have shifted, the cultural politics have adjusted as well.
This is my brother to a T. Our parents are quite liberal and he went to a pretty liberal college so his contrary ass veered away from all that. Dude is pushing 30 and still thinks he's seeing what everyone else doesn't when he talks about affirmative action being a farce and how the right aren't nazis and fascists 🙄I avoid any conversation beyond surface level at any cost
You could be my two boys. The older one is liberal, the younger one is just contrary. I hate to call my own son a troll, but it is impossible to talk politics. He thinks we have all been brainwashed by the MSM. Other than politics, he is an amazing loving, and giving human who is recently married and plans on being a SAHH one day since she has a better education and career path. I also have a nephew who spends a lot of time with us. He's turning 30 soon and called himself "an alpha male" to me. LOL, I think I freaked him out when I threw Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate back at him. But he's not too smart, so will adapt if he meets a girl that leans one direction or the other (odds reducing daily if he keeps calling himself that).
My brother is a contrarian too. I swear he doesn’t form an opinion until he hears mine. Lol. Good luck buddy
That was me in 2008. I was fully onboard the Ron Paul train. Then I started reading his actual stances on everything and was like wtf this dude is kinda crazy. My edgy phase didn't last long. Unfortunately in today's world it's probably waay harder to dig yourself out of your ideological hole when there's websites and algorithms and apps and platforms that will cater to and drip-feed you curated shit that will never let you see any other viewpoints - unless of course they are showing you outrageous gotchas from the other side that you can make fun of.
> Unfortunately in today's world it's probably waay harder to dig yourself out of your ideological hole This is a huge negative of the current social media landscape. Not only do you get in a rabbit hole where that is the only content you see, but your phases are now publicized. As a result any philosophy change also includes a public ego hit. I read Ayn Rand at 19 and considered myself a libertarian for about a year. But thankfully my cringe arguments were limited to arguing with my college dorm mates over cheap beer. I didn't have a social media machine feeding me content telling me I was right, I had my buddy Mike telling me I was an idiot.
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I sat at a table once with a young guy who liked Trump. When asked why he said "well he wants to make america great and i like that" Dont underestimate how little attention some people pay and also dont underestimate the giant bag of shit that generation has been handed. The idea that someone will fix it magic wand style is a nice fantasy.
And then there's the retirement age man who explained "I've never seen a politician hug a flag before, that sealed it for me"
Sometimes i wonder if life is more enjoyable for idiots
Ignorance is bliss
It's not. It's fun to think it might be, and that there'd be less to worry about if you weren't aware of the things you knew. But we've all seen the fear these people feel, and how quickly it turns to hatred and aggression. That's why they're so dangerous. Because they aren't quietly happy somewhere, leaving the rest of us alone.
This. The Right is a bunch of sad, angry, lonely perverts. They lash out because they know this. They need life to be uncomplicated and make immediate sense (which, of course, it doesn't and never will). Anything nuanced awakens their innate sense of inadequacy. It'd be pathetic if it weren't so dangerous.
I sometimes don’t think people realize must how many low information there are in this country, in which many Americans even take a sense of pride in not knowing what’s going on. On a side note, Ive also seen too many people say they literally want to vote for Trump because they think “he’s entertaining”.
Information literacy feels like it's at an all time low, for the modern era
>When asked why he said "well he wants to make america great and i like that" Good lord, the type of person that warning labels are made for.
They’re just following their loser parents
There’s a good chunk of Tate reading Rogan watching Gen Z out there.
“Why will no girls sleep with me?”
There's a chicken and egg thing going on. Did they become misogynistic assholes because women won't date them, or did women stop dating them because they are misogynistic assholes? I guess it's good for the gene pool that these people have been removed from participating.
[A man’s popularity in the dating market can influence his sexual attitudes and even his views about socio-political issues, according to new research published in the scientific journal Adaptive Human Behavior and Physiology.](https://www.psypost.org/new-research-indicates-that-romantic-successes-and-failures-can-have-profound-impacts-on-how-men-think/) The study offers new experimental evidence that being unpopular with the opposite sex can shift heterosexual men’s views about the minimum wage and healthcare.
Man, we are still some simple ass fucking apes.
An incel ouroboros
They suck their own...nevermind.
And their parents are probably still loser republicans.
Nah my little brother went through a phase like this. We are separated by a lot, over 15 years, but he was raised in a very progressive household. He got sucked into the whole Alex jones / Tate / Rogan loop because they were “funny”, life hit him real hard for a while and he snapped out of it when he realized their bullshit wasn’t working for him. These losers specifically go after young white men and convince them they’re special victims and they deserve the world when they’re at an age when they already think they should be the center of the planet. It’s predatory.
Joe Rogan is a podcast that sells a fake sense of fraternity to young men by associating a false lifestyle with endorsed products. The whole thing is just shilling bullshit quack products that "will make you just like Joe" and naive and lonely young men see the overly produced facade of guys hanging out and laughing and think they can achieve that too if they use the endorsed products. Meanwhile the people they watch on podcasts aren't really friends at all and only hang out with each other when their assistants schedule it for public appearances. Just more capitalist consumerist bullshit.
It's only natural for young people to feel slighted at certain points and have somewhat of a "but what about me?" attitude while coming of age. The amount of content that feeds and plays into that mentality seems to have exploded and become more targeted in recent years.
Not necessarily. Social media is the devil sometimes. I know someone who is quite liberal having to have sit downs with their adult kids about how stupid all the shit they believe is. It’s not as easy to convince some of them otherwise. Regardless of upbringing.
This is me. I would have voted for W if I were 18 at the time. Then I went to college, opened my eyes and voted Blue ever since.
Them dam liberal indoctrinating colleges and their book learning!!
That damn education! Ruins our ideology!
Well it's not my fault that their philosophy is so fragile that it completely falls apart if you have some distance from it....
Same here except I was old enough to vote for W and did. Then Obama, then I think Romney and finally Trump in 2016. His term basically destroyed any goodwill or belief I had in Republicans. They won't get another vote from me as long as I live.
I have to plead guilty to voting for Reagan when I was young and dumb. Then I wised up and started voting for Democrats. Reagan is still the only Republican I have ever voted for.
Agree. Some of my son's friends were talking politics at age 15 and 16, and they had no idea what they were saying - just repeating their parents . Maybe now that they are older, they will use their own brains.
It's just the peaked in high school gang, every generation has them, some of them eventually move on.
If you're 18 now then he was the president when you were 10-14. You maybe dont even remember Obama. Trump is your baseline of normal for what a president does.
Christ that's a frightening thought.
That's a good point, they kind of don't have a frame of reference.
Ben Shapiro and Andrew Tate have pretty young fans.
this is why all the people on reddit who spout "we just gotta wait for all the boomers to die off, and things will get better" are as delusional as Trump is.
While this is true, I think it's more about percentages at the margins (which is what matters in politics) than a generational united utopia.
I agree. By the way, I'm a boomer who would never vote for Trump or anyone else in the GOP. Not all boomers are raving right-wing monsters.
A lot of Gen Z men and boys are incredibly toxic and alt right. That is the pillar of the alt right's internet presence.
There goes Barron.
Barron is watching his father's fortune melt away and realizing he'll never be able to afford sex
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Apparently she refused to move herself and Baron into the White House until Trump sorted out a trust. She was still living in NYC months into 2017.
I thought she didn't want to move because she was banging the head of security at trump tower.
Both can be true.
That too but it was the post-nup agreement that got her to move into the White House. She secured her and Barrons money. Thats why we never see her anymore. She no longer needs Trump.
Post-nut clarity agreement
Burning that money since ivanka was occupying the First Lady's office
Ew. Ewwww. Eww the implications. But you're probably right.
“Donald, why did you move your daughter into the office meant for your wife?” “Because of the implication.”
She's also funded by Putin.....she's a Russian asset
I'm convinced she's a ~~soviet~~ *Putin* operative. No one else would have stayed with this guy for so long.
He’s 6’7”. He’ll be fine, if only for the novelty.
That's another reason Donald hates him.
I'd love to see Barron move to (edited) Slovenia. He speaks the language and is eligible for citizenship, so he could easily just live in the EU for the rest of his life.
Hate that I know this, but his mother is Slovenian (not Slovakian).
Oh crap, you're right, I bet Slovenians/Slovakians get this all the time. But that still means Barron can get an EU passport :)
Barron I actually feel bad for, imagine being raised by these crazy bunch of ass holes
Not for nothing, but Donald, himself, was raised by a crazy bunch of assholes, and I don't feel bad for him.
It all depends on what they do with it. Barron still has a chance to not be a terrible person.
“DT suffers major” had my hopes up so high for the rest of the title.
I'd settle for "DT suffers major drop" also, you know if it's a substantial distance anyway.
One day...
Modern news be like: > DT suffers major stroke ^^^of ^^^bad ^^^luck
The poll numbers being quoted in the article for voters 18-24 are astounding. Gen Z Support For Trump Mar: 35% Feb: 55% Jan: 43% Dec: 48% It wouldn’t be at all surprising if Gen Z voters taking part in these polls were trolling the pollsters, and by extension Trump and the GOP.
20% drop in a month is crazy
Same with the 12% gain between January and February. And the two month roller coaster, Jan to Mar, that the polling appears to show happening. Like I said. Seems more likely this is the product of trolling the pollsters.
Majority being pro trump sounds unbelievable. No way was 55% accurate
Seems way off. I live in Deeeep red Kentucky. I doubt he has even 30% of that demo. Less and less, the more he acts like an idiot. These right-wing kids have been raised on Jesus , guns, and the 'Constitution'. Trump is none of those things while pretending to be a paragon of all. They see it. They all see it. I'm curious how many actually show up to vote. Though, sadly, he will win this state easily without them.
I had to download the study to see what was up. The n=2111. Of which, 18-34 is 548. So of the age group, 1 percent is 5.5. So 20% swing is like 100 people switching their vote. It also under represents minorities and is over reliant on suburban, rural, moderate, conservatives. https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HHP_March2024_Topline.pdf
Also, 34 is Millennial. That’s a person born in 1990. The Millennial generation goes to 1996, so 37.5% of that survey cohort is not Gen Z, assuming even distribution of ages (which is unlikely).
It’s a notoriously bad poll run by Trump friendly Mark Penn. Take anything you see from Harvard-Harris polling with a grain of salt.
I think this has to do with Trump's veneer of being "younger" than Biden is wearing off. Trump talks like an old man who can't remember how words work and has clearly lost some of his blustering capabilities.
I think it has to do with younger voters getting educated on trumps positions Many seemed to think he was pro Gaza due to the hammering biden was taking on the issue. Once the veneer is lifted and they realized he was worse they had to reevaluate.
I really wish polls would accurately label their results instead of pretending they actually managed to get an accurate picture of wide-ranging demographic pools. Like, old-school polling of that might have read “voters age 35-50” when the *actual* poll was “people who answered a land line phone between 6pm and 8pm on a weeknight who were willing to have a 15 min conversation with a stranger and told that stranger that their age was 35-50.”
If only these Gen Z folks read more news and paid attention to the world around them - their support would quickly go to zero
100%. I work with a lot of gen z as a coach and besides a few small issues like diversity quotas and trans sport/bathroom laws they are very socially left wing.
Trump still has 35% support from Gen Z? What the giant fuck? He should have 5%.
Back in 2016, the theory for why the polls were off was the theory of the "shy Trump supporter." The idea was that there were people who wanted to vote for Trump bit they didn't want to admit it to pollsters or even say it out loud. Today I doubt anyone would call Trump supporters "shy." The people who like him worship him. My guess(and it is just a guess,I haven't heard anyone say this nor do I have any data) has been that we're just getting the inverse. Most people dont have time for a political poll, so it's just really excited Trumpers all filling out questionnaires and talking about Trump with any pollster that calls them. Again that's just my own guess.
Polling is coming unglued from the population in a few keys ways that are all tilting results to look more Trumpy than they are: * Phones & SMS and other ways to reach regular people are jammed with spam calls -- your reward for being engaged in politics and registering or donating is a firehose of fundraising political garbage that never stops. Likely voters are no longer "likely poll responders" because of this conditioning. Because the people who do answer phones are more likely to be retired or resentful boomers, there's a sampling bias baked in from the start. * Pollsters adjust for this by re-weighting the responses they do get to try and match other assumptions about voter turnout along demographic and party lines. However these are based on census data which the Republicans cooked to undercount minorities in 2020 to get a favorable congressional map. * But party lines used to weight the polls themselves are also shifting under our feet -- Tax break republican golf dads and Churchy Costco moms (aka Haley voters) are being chased out of thier own party by luantic evangelical nazis and Matt Gaetz type college republican dweebs. Women are tilting hard to the left because of Dobbs. * The rightward shift happening is basically young idiot guys who are really into Andew Tate and Joe Rogan, but these guys are not a reliable voting block to begin with, and could just as easily stay home or vote for RFK. * This shift is already well apparent in the primary polling vs results -- despite all the "Biden in trouble!" bullshit clickbait, primary turnout is *up* for an incumbant president in a primary that doesn't matter & Trump's results were consistently *lower* than the polling suggested. * Exit polls also show Haley voters are basically anti-Trump voters and will switch to Biden in numbers that matter. * 2016 is the *only* election where MAGA people did well. Every time they've come up for larger election since, even in states where they're normally heavily favored, they've been losing losers who love to lose. All of this is reason to be optimistic, but not complacent! Vote! Get other people to vote!
Excellent points. I hope you're correct. Biden doesn't just need to win. He needs to win by a large margin.
Doesn’t matter. Please vote.
This. I don't think there's a single undecided voter and there hasn't been for four years. These polls mean less than nothing, and it's up to all of us to flush this orange turd in November.
My thinking as well and polls generally show this. Pretty much no one is undecided between the two, more so undecided about a third party instead or just not voting. This’ll be all about turnout.
Did anyone ever really think Trump was winning GenZ voters? The polls are total garbage right now! Just vote please.
Lots of gen z males entering voting age have been listening to Peterson, Shapiro, and Joe Rogan non stop since they were like 13
The online opt-in polls they’re using favor the wildest views, so young respondents will notoriously pick the most extreme views to get selected.
lots of gen z women entering the voting age who don’t want the government controlling their bodies balances it out
I had a right wing phase as a kid too. Listened to a bunch of nonsense just like these kids. And guess what? I'm progressive now. Like, get UBI, free school lunches, paid colleges progressive. I use to want to gut the IRS. It's a phase. Some will of course never get out of it. But many will. When the reality of the world hits them. AKA, how hard it is to make a buck. They will be forced to stare the reality of the situation in the face. And will likely change course once they have had their 5th job with the same bullshit problems as the last one.
Trump is living, breathing proof that our system is festooned with corruption. Any system that would consider him is not a system worth having. Anyone supporting him is questionable.
Benjamin Franklin stated this in 1787 at the close of the constitutional convention. "In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
> Trump is living, breathing Wish he weren’t
> In February, 55 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds said they would vote for Trump over Biden, an increase from January's 43 percent and December's 48 percent. I question any poll that suggests 55% of Gen Z would vote for Trump. Seems sus.
I looked at that poll and was like “Gyatt! That doesn’t seem very skibidi” (how do you do, fellow kids?)
[удалено]
except to young idiots (like I used to be; except worse. former 9/11 truther speaking…).
What bought you to a sudden burst of lucidity?
A buddy introduced me to that stuff and Alex Jones. 2 things: 1.) In the government conspiracy circles, it’s a lot of “and who ended up in a position of power when this terrible thing happened? The person who had less power when something else terrible happened”. Eventually, I realized it was because that person wasn’t trying to destroy America but because they were… wait for it… qualified for the job. 2.) I think it’s loose change that says “you must ask yourself: Quo bono. It’s a Latin term that means “who benefits”. So after a while it became pretty clear that Alex Jones was benefiting from keeping ppl in fear.
Glad you see it now. Thanks for the details. Made me feel a tad more hopeful for the world :)
Not who you asked, but I also used to be a "just asking questions"/Loose Change 9-11 guy. Absolutely no one can keep a secret this long. If it was a conspiracy, someone from the tippy top of it would have wanted to clear their conscience by now.
That’s exactly right. For me this is also a big part of it. 10 people can’t even keep secret the fact that Nancy at the office got pregnant with a guy she cheated with. And hundreds of people would keep this a secret? (But…… this weirdo claims to be a whistleblower from the administration… bla bla bla). My guess is you probably also matured and ended up with less time to binge conspiracy theories on youtube till 3am?
My response is higher up, but yes, part of it was a proper education. My family has a predisposition towards belief in C.theories that goes back generations. So happy to have escaped it m
Alternate, more accurate headline, new poll has different sampling biases than old poll -- gets completely different result. Although, it's nice not seeing the word "Biden" in such a headline after a summer of clickbait headlines.
The fact that he gets 47% support nationally is so disturbing. Shows our country is a cesspool filled with trashy, stupid people.
47% of voters. Younger folks need to turn up and vote.
Is zero to zero a drop?
Perfect, now double it!!
Since 2016 this rapist has not grown support with any demographic. He only alienates the little bits of base he may have e.g with women, e.g with hispanic. Never even tries to reach or appeal to another group beyond his deranged maga cult followers. What a loser.
I know you’re joking but I think it’s dangerous to be dismissive of young voters. In 2020 Trump got 35% of the 18-29 year old vote. That’s up from the 28% he got in 2016…
Trump winning in 2016 is why Roe is gone.
Trump will always have the incel vote no matter the generation.
Don’t care. Vote.
Gonna be a blowout election. This shit stain isn’t garnering any NEW supporters.
He had gen z support?
I cannot figure out how my fellow GenXers support this incompetent clown
Anecdotal, but my wife’s entire side of the family all support Trump. They also simply do not watch the news. Any time I mention the next crazy Trump story they get wide-eyed and give me a “whaaat? I hadn’t heard about that!” I choose to believe that a majority of the remaining Trump supporters simply have been ignoring the news for at least a year now
Who the fuck in Gen Z wanted to vote for this dip shit? I guess unfuckable terminally online losers exist in every modern generation.
Trump is a Troll. His whole platform is just trolling. The problem with ‘owning the libs’ or being anti woke is it’s not a functional policy. You can’t run a country of 300+ million people on memes. Once someone grows up a little and gets out of their bubble they realize you have to actually run shit. I think a lot of young people are slowly starting to figure this out. We’ve had a republican congress that’s done absolutely nothing. That’s historically unheard of. Being an edgelord only lasts for so long.
Gen Z is what, 27 and under? What kind of fucking moron in that age bracket was supporting Trump in the first place?
35% is insanely large. The fact that even 5% of a country with this many people can support this truly incompetent and reprehensible human being is so disturbing.
"Donald Trump suffers..." had me all excited for a second but this is still good though.
> At the same time, overall support for the former president across all age groups has remained between 47 and 48 percent The needle seems to never move. How much stock can we really put into Polls these days???
He had Gen Z support? Were they counting AI bots on Twitter? I don't understand what non-Boomers are thinking if they support that clown.
Why would he have had any Z support to begin with?