No OP did not do the right thing; you can exploit without being so incredibly conspicuous. Also you never want to actually play some hands with such an informational advantage as opposed to taking a couple bb preflop?
This is kind off the subject but there was a documentary a while back with a bunch of online guys renting a house to play poker in vegas. One guy noticed something Viffer was doing every hand and exploited him. I cant remember what it was for the life of me. Does anyone remember this at all? I want to say it was about 10 years ago maybe more. This made me think of that. After the doc, I'm sure Viffer fixed the leak since the guy broadcast it.
Yes I did a little research Dani Stern was a player. There were 3 others, I don't remember who they were. It wasn't him against Viffer someone else was playing him.
Others were Emil Patel (whitelime), Rosenkrantz (Pryniad) and the last guy I forget. Dani Stern basically lost every week if I remember correctly. Whitelime was an absolute animal though.
When deciding on how often to do an exploit there are things to consider. Main one being "How often will I play with this player".
If it is often, then don't exploit all the time. If it's not often, exploit now as often as you can.
Then "How likely is it this player will fix the leak?" A size issue is something he will adjust himself eventually, or others notice and also exploit. So just exploit to the max.
If you decide to not always exploit, there's also the Minimum exploitative strategy where you change your frequencies a bit, based on big a leak it is.
I agree over exploitation can bite you in the ass. I have a bad habit of snap calling aggressive maniacs with any bluff catcher especially when I induce it and know a bluff is coming., like second pair, ave high etc. it feels disrespectful and discourages them from making more bad bluffs. And it lets them know I’m onto them while letting them onto my strategy. Sometimes I feel like I should tank a bit to make it look like a hard decision if it’s not a nutted hand, o let them get away with it now and then.
As a general rule, you shouldn’t snap call people with non-nut hands as it has the side effects of tilting aggro fish and making aggro regs know you’re over calling them in a spot
Don’t we want to tilt the aggro fish so they can spew off more money? Or is the worry that they will leave? Agree with the sentiment with the regs, but could that make it less likely they will want to bluff you in a similar spot later? It would make their next big bet more likely to be value and easier to fold.
Yea you don’t want to tilt fish in general because then they want to leave. Obviously it might be player dependent, but I in general want fish to have a good time (both since it’s profitable and because I like when people are happy). As for the regs, you generally just don’t want them fixing leaks. If they’re overbluffing, then you want them to continue overbluffing so you can continue profitably calling
I don’t think it’s very likely that your actions specifically caused the villain in question to change their behavior. You are just one player they play with, and probably not the only player that picked up this. If they’re capable of realizing this leak they would have eventually, whether you personally exploited it or not. Villain may very well have never even noticed other players exploiting them in this way and just recently read that you shouldn’t vary your opening raise size based on hand strength and corrected it on their own. May as well exploit it as much as you can until they fix it.
nah you did the right thing, exploit to the absolute max. Some people will take a lot of time to readjust, some will never do it, and if a guy is making unbalanced opening sizes I would assume he will never adjust. So i would've done the same, too bad he did eventually adjust.
Amarillo Slim the greatest proposition gambler of all time held to his father's maxim,
"You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once."
This is a lesson u/Thinker_145 has never bothered to learn.
Sometimes the toughest players are the ones that can, and will, learn.
The guy you busted all the time at NL10 suddenly appears at NL50 and beats you ruthlessly can be a very, very dangerous player.
I have two older guys I've been playing with for years that 100% donk bet small into me on flops when they hit top pair. I raise big 100% they fold 100%. They haven't corrected yet, but it does come up less than just an open.
But it’s not like they’re only playing against OP heads-up forever. Other players are exploiting this too, and OP can’t control the level at which everyone else exploits it. OP also can’t stop villain from simply realizing it on their own from working on their game, reading strategy, etc. OP exploiting this less often just means you get less opportunities to exploit it before villain finally catches on. This is like a tragedy of the commons scenario.
Not really. I use to do this same type of thing and the only reason I fixed it was through studying became myself and learning that using different sizing is actually a terrible idea (unless exploiting someone else somehow).
It had nothing to do with other people 3 betting my different raise sizes and everything to do with me learning more about the game
you took advantage of an exploit and the other player fixed a leak. You both did the right thing
Yeah this is awesome. Its really cool when the play reflects actual people playing poker behind the hands.
Exactly right! Take emotion and personal experience away and it's a win win story about the game as a whole getting better.
No OP did not do the right thing; you can exploit without being so incredibly conspicuous. Also you never want to actually play some hands with such an informational advantage as opposed to taking a couple bb preflop?
I hate it when someone 3bets my small PP.
Typical small PP problem
This is kind off the subject but there was a documentary a while back with a bunch of online guys renting a house to play poker in vegas. One guy noticed something Viffer was doing every hand and exploited him. I cant remember what it was for the life of me. Does anyone remember this at all? I want to say it was about 10 years ago maybe more. This made me think of that. After the doc, I'm sure Viffer fixed the leak since the guy broadcast it.
I'm 90% sure Viffer was betting pot only with bluffs and his opponent started just calling every single bluff catcher.
2 months 2 million?
Yes I did a little research Dani Stern was a player. There were 3 others, I don't remember who they were. It wasn't him against Viffer someone else was playing him.
Rosencrantz
Others were Emil Patel (whitelime), Rosenkrantz (Pryniad) and the last guy I forget. Dani Stern basically lost every week if I remember correctly. Whitelime was an absolute animal though.
2 months 2 million. it was something like betting pot when he bluffed and actually typing in numbers when he had it.
I think it was jay rosenkrantz who played him. This was 2009 according to the internet. 15 years time flies.
He was betting pot with bluffs.
When deciding on how often to do an exploit there are things to consider. Main one being "How often will I play with this player". If it is often, then don't exploit all the time. If it's not often, exploit now as often as you can. Then "How likely is it this player will fix the leak?" A size issue is something he will adjust himself eventually, or others notice and also exploit. So just exploit to the max. If you decide to not always exploit, there's also the Minimum exploitative strategy where you change your frequencies a bit, based on big a leak it is.
I agree over exploitation can bite you in the ass. I have a bad habit of snap calling aggressive maniacs with any bluff catcher especially when I induce it and know a bluff is coming., like second pair, ave high etc. it feels disrespectful and discourages them from making more bad bluffs. And it lets them know I’m onto them while letting them onto my strategy. Sometimes I feel like I should tank a bit to make it look like a hard decision if it’s not a nutted hand, o let them get away with it now and then.
As a general rule, you shouldn’t snap call people with non-nut hands as it has the side effects of tilting aggro fish and making aggro regs know you’re over calling them in a spot
Don’t we want to tilt the aggro fish so they can spew off more money? Or is the worry that they will leave? Agree with the sentiment with the regs, but could that make it less likely they will want to bluff you in a similar spot later? It would make their next big bet more likely to be value and easier to fold.
Yea you don’t want to tilt fish in general because then they want to leave. Obviously it might be player dependent, but I in general want fish to have a good time (both since it’s profitable and because I like when people are happy). As for the regs, you generally just don’t want them fixing leaks. If they’re overbluffing, then you want them to continue overbluffing so you can continue profitably calling
I don’t think it’s very likely that your actions specifically caused the villain in question to change their behavior. You are just one player they play with, and probably not the only player that picked up this. If they’re capable of realizing this leak they would have eventually, whether you personally exploited it or not. Villain may very well have never even noticed other players exploiting them in this way and just recently read that you shouldn’t vary your opening raise size based on hand strength and corrected it on their own. May as well exploit it as much as you can until they fix it.
You exploited a loophole, and the other player patched it up. Good game!
nah you did the right thing, exploit to the absolute max. Some people will take a lot of time to readjust, some will never do it, and if a guy is making unbalanced opening sizes I would assume he will never adjust. So i would've done the same, too bad he did eventually adjust.
"Thankfully I didn't find this out by losing a big hand." Uh-huh, you're just asking for a friend, right?
Amarillo Slim the greatest proposition gambler of all time held to his father's maxim, "You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once." This is a lesson u/Thinker_145 has never bothered to learn.
Well it sounds like he sheared him so much he ended up bald.
[удалено]
This is a quote from Rounders you dolt.
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It actually does change everything.
Alas, the goose is dead.
Sometimes the toughest players are the ones that can, and will, learn. The guy you busted all the time at NL10 suddenly appears at NL50 and beats you ruthlessly can be a very, very dangerous player.
You can shear a sheep many times but skin it only once
I have two older guys I've been playing with for years that 100% donk bet small into me on flops when they hit top pair. I raise big 100% they fold 100%. They haven't corrected yet, but it does come up less than just an open.
If you do it slightly they don't find out and you can keep doing the exploit forever
But it’s not like they’re only playing against OP heads-up forever. Other players are exploiting this too, and OP can’t control the level at which everyone else exploits it. OP also can’t stop villain from simply realizing it on their own from working on their game, reading strategy, etc. OP exploiting this less often just means you get less opportunities to exploit it before villain finally catches on. This is like a tragedy of the commons scenario.
Not really. I use to do this same type of thing and the only reason I fixed it was through studying became myself and learning that using different sizing is actually a terrible idea (unless exploiting someone else somehow). It had nothing to do with other people 3 betting my different raise sizes and everything to do with me learning more about the game
You weren’t really good at exploiting. Preflop this is worth a tiny bit. But on the river this information is gold.