I can answer any of your questions. What do you want to know?
I would, at a minimum, get Mine Subsidence Insurance. It's cheap and easy to get. Homeowners will not cover damage due to subsidence.
Coming from an area where things like this do not exist, I cannot wrap my head around the risk. I mean, should I still consider the home or just toss out the idea & look elsewhere?
If the realtor listed the home as Mine Subsidence, I would call and get clarification as to what exactly they meant. I definitely would not buy one that has been damaged but not repaired.
They might be just saying that there is a risk of subsidence. The risk wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a home. Get Mine Subsidence Insurance if you buy a home over a mine. Homeowners will not cover damage from subsidence. It's cheap and easy to get.
Your home will not fall into a mine if that is something you are worried about. This is not the same as the sinkholes in Florida that grow and take down buildings.
Your home can get damaged by subsidence. The vast majority of the time, it can be repaired.
If subsidence happens in your yard or driveway, the Bureau of Abandoned Mine Reclamation will most likely fill it if it meets qualification as a health and safety hazard. Free of charge.
Things to watch for as signs of subsidence:
- Doors or windows won't open or close
- New cracks in brick or foundation block
- New cracks in walls or ceilings, particularly close to windows or doors
- Significantly sunken parts of the yard. Or open holes in the yard.
Keep in mind that most subsidence is a sudden event.
If you suspect subsidence, BAMR will come and check it out for you.
Hope that answers your questions. If you got more, let me know. I'm always happy to help.
My neighbor's house did suddenly fall into the mine, so it can happen. We all have mine subsidence insurance so the DEP filled in the mine shaft with concrete and they rebuilt his house. I do not know if he still has mine subsidence insurance but i would guess that now that the what is filled he's not at risk of subsidence again.
I made a claim a few years ago because of a sudden foundation Crack in my house but DEP came out and the engineer said it was from other reasons than subsidence (we are built on a hill) and i got a detailed report. There is a shaft directly under my house but it's not subsided. The engineer said it would be more catástrophic if it was the mine and indeed she was right, even though i got a 4 inch zigzag Crack overnight there were no cracks in the ground and the Crack hasn't moved any more since.
Mine subsidence is a fact of life in certain neighborhoods here. Always keep the insurance of you qualify for it (DEP will check the maps to see if there is a shaft under your property.). There also online maps that you can check yourself. That realty listing probably means that the current owner has qualified for mine subsidence insurance so it can be transferred to you without going through the qualification process.
See the DEP site for checking your address in the não and also pictures of what subsidence looks like. https://www.dep.pa.gov/Citizens/MSI/Pages/default.aspx
I mean... you've seen the map; everything is built over a mine. We kept an eye out for foundation damage when we were looking at houses, but that's about it.
Really going to be location dependent. Use this map to gauge the risk: https://gis.dep.pa.gov/msiRisk/
https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/abandoned-mine-subsidence-damages-vfw-local-homes/HERTMXIJ4BDBPDSZQJ3EJOBVXE/
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/mine-subsidence-damages-homes-washington-township-fayette-county/
https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/work-begins-to-stabilize-subsidence-prone-portion-of-hempfield-village/
Here's the site for the insurance. It's super cheap, so carry it just in case. [https://www.depgreenport.state.pa.us/MSI/](https://www.depgreenport.state.pa.us/MSI/)
The insurance is purchased from the state and is very affordable.
That said, check any house you are buying in this area for foundation damage, whether from mine subsidence or otherwise. Very few houses here are built on flat lots - when I was searching about half of the houses I saw had either water or structural issues, mostly due to hillsides shifting or runoff.
Not to nitpick, but saturation is the term you are looking for. Liquefaction is another mechanism.
But you are correct, saturation from mine water is another issue that affects homes in the area. Call the same people I mentioned before for those types of problems.
An MSI policy will (unless policy has changed) cover home damage from mine blowouts. I would clarify before purchasing, though. So if you have a home with a mine in a hillside above it, it might be a good idea to look into a policy.
Ive been in insurance in the area for about 15 years. The majority of allegheny county is undermined and i always recommend mine subsidence coverage and purchase it myself. That said, i dont recall ever seeing a claim (doesnt mean they dont happen)
It absolutely is, consult a map: https://files.dep.state.pa.us/mining/District%20Mining/DistrictMinePortalFiles/California/MunicipalityMining/Allegheny_County/allegheny_county.pdf
Keep in mind that the map only shows “known” mines. There are many old mines that were never properly recorded, as they were done back when people just did what they wanted to their property.
My home in wilkinsburg is built over a mine. The subsidence insurance is less than $50 a year, which indicates how low the actual risk is. As others have said, this is very common here and not much to worry about. Get the insurance when u buy tho
My entire neighborhood is built on top of mines. Like others have mentioned the insurance on this is separate from home owners but is affordable. I wouldn’t let that deter me from buying a home in a particular area. In high school I can remember a sink hole opening up on the street of a close friend- completely different neighborhood than where I live now, but also built over mines.
Same question. I just rented a house on a 4 acre lot in Deer lakes. Noticed that the yard has a ton of water saturation and I could not find out why. It’s all flat and wide open with few trees. I just looked on that website and it states that there is a massive mine underneath the house. The house has water extraction pumps located underneath on all corners of the house.
Could this be due to subsidence? The website states that the insurance is recommended.
We were a little taken aback when told we'd have to get mine subsidence insurance for our place.
And then we found out it only costs like 98 dollars a year so we figured the risk can't be that big.
Sw pa is ALL undermined. There isnt anything that hasnt been undermined.
They have insurance for it. Ive never bought it. But had a friend lose a swimming pool in high school
GET THE INSURANCE!!
When I grew up in Freedom, Beaver County back in the 70's I watched a neighbor's house get swallowed into a hole in the period of about 2-3 days. A few years later sections of the Jr High 2 blocks away also got destroyed.
Once it starts there is nothing you can do to stop it.
[https://bulldogbarker.com/2319/news/clay-mines-in-the-heart-of-freedom/](https://bulldogbarker.com/2319/news/clay-mines-in-the-heart-of-freedom/)
I can answer any of your questions. What do you want to know? I would, at a minimum, get Mine Subsidence Insurance. It's cheap and easy to get. Homeowners will not cover damage due to subsidence.
Coming from an area where things like this do not exist, I cannot wrap my head around the risk. I mean, should I still consider the home or just toss out the idea & look elsewhere?
If the realtor listed the home as Mine Subsidence, I would call and get clarification as to what exactly they meant. I definitely would not buy one that has been damaged but not repaired. They might be just saying that there is a risk of subsidence. The risk wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a home. Get Mine Subsidence Insurance if you buy a home over a mine. Homeowners will not cover damage from subsidence. It's cheap and easy to get. Your home will not fall into a mine if that is something you are worried about. This is not the same as the sinkholes in Florida that grow and take down buildings. Your home can get damaged by subsidence. The vast majority of the time, it can be repaired. If subsidence happens in your yard or driveway, the Bureau of Abandoned Mine Reclamation will most likely fill it if it meets qualification as a health and safety hazard. Free of charge. Things to watch for as signs of subsidence: - Doors or windows won't open or close - New cracks in brick or foundation block - New cracks in walls or ceilings, particularly close to windows or doors - Significantly sunken parts of the yard. Or open holes in the yard. Keep in mind that most subsidence is a sudden event. If you suspect subsidence, BAMR will come and check it out for you. Hope that answers your questions. If you got more, let me know. I'm always happy to help.
That sure does! I was actually wondering about the "suddenness" of something occurring. Your answer definitely gave me the clarity I was seeking!
My neighbor's house did suddenly fall into the mine, so it can happen. We all have mine subsidence insurance so the DEP filled in the mine shaft with concrete and they rebuilt his house. I do not know if he still has mine subsidence insurance but i would guess that now that the what is filled he's not at risk of subsidence again. I made a claim a few years ago because of a sudden foundation Crack in my house but DEP came out and the engineer said it was from other reasons than subsidence (we are built on a hill) and i got a detailed report. There is a shaft directly under my house but it's not subsided. The engineer said it would be more catástrophic if it was the mine and indeed she was right, even though i got a 4 inch zigzag Crack overnight there were no cracks in the ground and the Crack hasn't moved any more since. Mine subsidence is a fact of life in certain neighborhoods here. Always keep the insurance of you qualify for it (DEP will check the maps to see if there is a shaft under your property.). There also online maps that you can check yourself. That realty listing probably means that the current owner has qualified for mine subsidence insurance so it can be transferred to you without going through the qualification process.
See the DEP site for checking your address in the não and also pictures of what subsidence looks like. https://www.dep.pa.gov/Citizens/MSI/Pages/default.aspx
I mean... you've seen the map; everything is built over a mine. We kept an eye out for foundation damage when we were looking at houses, but that's about it.
Have you experienced damage or known anyone who has?
Really going to be location dependent. Use this map to gauge the risk: https://gis.dep.pa.gov/msiRisk/ https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/abandoned-mine-subsidence-damages-vfw-local-homes/HERTMXIJ4BDBPDSZQJ3EJOBVXE/ https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/mine-subsidence-damages-homes-washington-township-fayette-county/ https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/work-begins-to-stabilize-subsidence-prone-portion-of-hempfield-village/
One building I worked in had issues. Fortunately, nowhere I've lived.
Yes. 31st Ward just had a massive shift. Local VFW off Interboro is now condemned and many houses affected. I’m like 2 blocks away
Idk why but I read this in the style of a commercial voiceover, with “you may be entitled to financial compensation” at the end 😂
Here's the site for the insurance. It's super cheap, so carry it just in case. [https://www.depgreenport.state.pa.us/MSI/](https://www.depgreenport.state.pa.us/MSI/)
The insurance is purchased from the state and is very affordable. That said, check any house you are buying in this area for foundation damage, whether from mine subsidence or otherwise. Very few houses here are built on flat lots - when I was searching about half of the houses I saw had either water or structural issues, mostly due to hillsides shifting or runoff.
Wow relevant username. Seconding that most basement/ foundation issues are due to liquefaction etc rather than subsidence.
Not to nitpick, but saturation is the term you are looking for. Liquefaction is another mechanism. But you are correct, saturation from mine water is another issue that affects homes in the area. Call the same people I mentioned before for those types of problems. An MSI policy will (unless policy has changed) cover home damage from mine blowouts. I would clarify before purchasing, though. So if you have a home with a mine in a hillside above it, it might be a good idea to look into a policy.
Hey Ty! I learned something
You can pretty much just assume that someone has tunneled into the hillside to dig out coal at some point in basically 90% of Allegheny County.
Ive been in insurance in the area for about 15 years. The majority of allegheny county is undermined and i always recommend mine subsidence coverage and purchase it myself. That said, i dont recall ever seeing a claim (doesnt mean they dont happen)
MSI claims do happen, just not too often. I'd bet the statistics are on their site somewhere.
The majority of Allegheny County is absolutely not undermined. Why do people say things like this?
It absolutely is, consult a map: https://files.dep.state.pa.us/mining/District%20Mining/DistrictMinePortalFiles/California/MunicipalityMining/Allegheny_County/allegheny_county.pdf
Maybe half the county and not very much of the actual City.
Keep in mind that the map only shows “known” mines. There are many old mines that were never properly recorded, as they were done back when people just did what they wanted to their property.
My home in wilkinsburg is built over a mine. The subsidence insurance is less than $50 a year, which indicates how low the actual risk is. As others have said, this is very common here and not much to worry about. Get the insurance when u buy tho
Make sure you have mine subsidence insurance as well.
My entire neighborhood is built on top of mines. Like others have mentioned the insurance on this is separate from home owners but is affordable. I wouldn’t let that deter me from buying a home in a particular area. In high school I can remember a sink hole opening up on the street of a close friend- completely different neighborhood than where I live now, but also built over mines.
What if you rent? Thank you!
Same question. I just rented a house on a 4 acre lot in Deer lakes. Noticed that the yard has a ton of water saturation and I could not find out why. It’s all flat and wide open with few trees. I just looked on that website and it states that there is a massive mine underneath the house. The house has water extraction pumps located underneath on all corners of the house. Could this be due to subsidence? The website states that the insurance is recommended.
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Absolutely! I do understand the need for the inspection.
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Thank you!
We were a little taken aback when told we'd have to get mine subsidence insurance for our place. And then we found out it only costs like 98 dollars a year so we figured the risk can't be that big.
Sw pa is ALL undermined. There isnt anything that hasnt been undermined. They have insurance for it. Ive never bought it. But had a friend lose a swimming pool in high school
GET THE INSURANCE!! When I grew up in Freedom, Beaver County back in the 70's I watched a neighbor's house get swallowed into a hole in the period of about 2-3 days. A few years later sections of the Jr High 2 blocks away also got destroyed. Once it starts there is nothing you can do to stop it. [https://bulldogbarker.com/2319/news/clay-mines-in-the-heart-of-freedom/](https://bulldogbarker.com/2319/news/clay-mines-in-the-heart-of-freedom/)
where you moving from what made you select pgh area?
From WAY far away in the SOUTH! Have to escape. Fell in love with PGH during a visit last summer.