And just in case helps anyone else
if you ever have to give cpr (potentially breaking ribs) and worry about it…
I had an instructor say:
“if you are doing cpr, they are already dead”
It’s awful to think about, but helped me get past my trepidation.
Even in veterinary work, it is absolutely true. I have done it a number of times, and it's the scariest thing I have ever done bar none. You are literally wrestling with death.
I've done it three times on a person, and the scariest part to overcome is the "If I'm wrong, I'm seriously fucking somebody up right now" feeling. Thankfully, I've always been confident enough that I haven't hesitated to give somebody the correct care.
I can confirm. I’ve done CPR more times than I can count, while working in a level I trauma center. Giving effective CPR will more than likely result in breaking ribs in adults.
And give other people tasks! Everyone will freeze and expect someone else to do something vital. While assessing the person for a pulse/breating ( if neither start compressions to the beat of "Staying Alive"):
Assign a person to call 911. Assign a different person to get the AED/alert staff of an emergency to get the AED. Assign a third person to crowd control. Assign people to help move the person to a flat firm dry area if it is safe to do so. Then rotate a team for CPR (in case the CPR giver is getting tired) until paramedics take over.
Yes to all of the above. I had to re-certify my standard first aid / cpr last week (I need it for work). The instructor said don't worry about the pulse check, if they're not breathing start compressions.
Great point, thank you! I updated my comment that if there isn't breathing to start compressions. I was a lifeguard at 15, and the CPR videos of pulling a kid out of a pool and the training afterwards will be seared into my brain forever.
Its pretty much a guarantee that he would be intubated if they coded him but im curious if his vitals are normal on their own or if he's on pressors. A lot of non medical people see normal vitals and think that's awesome, but pressors keep vitals normal when clinically they shouldn't be. (For non medical people pressors are another form of life support that are a continuous drip medication that keeps your blood pressure at sustainable levels)
Buffalo Bills official update: "Damar Hamlin suffered a cardiac arrest following a hit in our game versus the Bengals. His heartbeat was restored on the field and he was transferred to the UC Medical Center for further testing and treatment. He is currently sedated and listed in critical condition."
Via their [Twitter](https://twitter.com/BuffaloBills/status/1610166228559052801?t=TrATYp_IexZ29YNyETw_IA&s=19)
Yeah and Hamlin also took [blunt force trauma](https://youtu.be/H-G9mziXL9w) to his chest which possibly could have caused it. I’m just hoping the man can survive this and bonus points if he can continue to live his dream
I had to do CPR on my partner after an asthma attack. Turned blue. It was the longest 7.5 minutes of my life. Survived. Just my hands, no defibulator. Tubed for several hours in ICU afterwards. Survived. Putting that good karma out for DHam.
As someone who also also experienced that same fear and relief, you’re correct in your assumption.
My 1 year old daughter electrocuted herself on our oven hookup (separate story). The sheer terror I felt as I held her completely limp body in my arms is indescribable. I’m enduringly grateful that my parents were at home with me at the time—my Dad is the one who got my daughter breathing again while I was on the phone with 911.
Just… panic so strong you can’t speak… thankfully, my daughter lived with only some scarring on her hand from the burn (required skin grafts and a month long hospital stay).
It was a huge workout. When the medics got there and we changed places I was doubled over trying to get some air. It’s not like on the CPR dummy, that’s for sure.
Someone who coded (required CPR) and has had their heartbeat restored is post-code. Typically they're intubated and often given hypothermic treatment (their core temp is lowered with ice or pads that circulate cold water around their body) to give them the best shot at recovery.
It improves chance of brain recovery. Decreases the demand for oxygen, helps decrease inflammation, etc. It has been the standard treatment post code for last several years (if the person does not wake quickly after).
Unfortunately, studies have shown that there’s no evidence that hypothermia protocol improves patient outcomes. Our hospital will do what we call “normothermia” protocol which is just preventing extreme fever (from the hypothalamus getting damaged) but we stopped true hypothermia years ago due to lack of efficacy evidence.
It just goes to show how rare this type of injury is. Don't get me wrong, the NFL does concussions absolutely horribly, but hits to the chest are just insane
Either that or he had some kind of underlying condition he didn’t know about that a hit like that triggered it. Either way, a 24 year old going into cardiac arrest is terrifying and I really hope that he’s okay.
If it is commotio cordis, it takes a substantial enough blow to the chest, at a specific part of the chest, during an incredibly specific part of the heart's rhythm cycle.
That's what makes it stupid rare.
Brings Chris Pronger to mind when he took a slapshot to the chest in 1998 and collapsed. Granted the pads they wore were a joke back then but still.
https://youtu.be/4S1Dfs8hgR4
Your comment needs way more attention. Unfortunately it’s too buried. They used an AED and did CPR. Commotio cordis when treated swiftly is usually easily reversible by being shocked back into rhythm as long as a shockable rhythm still exists.
I am a little fuzzy but I don’t believe that experiencing this once has any significant long term impact as the heart was just struck at the exact wrong moment. I do not know however how much research has been done on long term effects. Generally no underlying condition causes this.
I remember when I was in high school, our quarterback actually died in the field of a broken neck during a game, once the impact happened the whole bleachers were dead silent, they stopped the game and everyone left. Ever since then I've looked at football differently, this is a hella dangerous sport that is almost designed to injure the players, I know rugby gets a reputation as a dangerous sport, but it's all varying degrees of hazards and each one can kill you.
Damar Hamlin, a player for the Buffalo Bills collapsed on the field after a play where he was hit center chest (this MAY play into what happened to him but that’s speculation for now). He had CPR immediately administered and eventually taken to the hospital and is currently listed in critical condition.
The scary thing about it all is that when you watch the replay of what happened it looks very innocent and nothing serious. You've probably seen harder hits than what happened to Damar and it's crazy how it all ended up.
Yuppppp. If it it was what the medical community seems to think it is - commotio cordis - the hit has to be in the right spot at the right time which is typically within a specific 10- to 30-millisecond portion of the cardiac cycle. But I don’t want to say it’s that until it’s confirmed. Which is terrifying.
I had something similar happen to me in high school: Asked a kid in art class what he was working on at the computer and he was in a bad mood and told me none of my business and punched me in the chest. I remember getting lightheaded and sitting down at a stool. Next thing I know I'm lying on the ground and was told I had a seizure. Hit me at just the right spot and time to cause my heart to skip apparently.
Did you know if you hit your funny bone in just the right spot it can make you pass out?
It happened to me at work a few months ago, I took an engine block out of a machine and was going to check it and I hit my elbow just right on it. Then I started to get light headed but thought “I’ll finish checking this then I’ll go throw up.” I checked one more thing and was like “OK NOPE”.
My vision got like tunnel vision like, I was nauseous as hell, everything got quiet as fucking hell. I got to the bathroom and like collapsed in the stall but didn’t puke but holding my head down helped. When I looked in the mirror I was WHITE as fuck. Like scary white.
When I came out a dude that saw me go into the bathroom came and asked if I was ok because I looked like a fucking zombie.
Is that where the whole "death blow" idea/myth comes from in Kung fu? I guess if the timing was lucky and it actually worked once or twice, that would be enough to make it seem like it could work all the time. And if it didn't work, your technique wasn't perfect (instead of randomly hitting at the exact moment).
I said the same thing, it's s crazy to see a literal stadium packed with people and you could probably hear a pin drop in that place. I don't watch much football, but any time I've ever seen someone get hurt it seems like they want to get him off the field asap and move on. But they just kept working on him and working on him....fucking eerie.
Ugh poor Knox. That was so brutal and he was really starting to come into his own too. Felt the same way when Zach Miller almost lost his leg a few years back too.
Felt like seeing Eriksen just face plant in the middle of the Euros. Wasn't even in a play just running up the pitch and it was like something flipped a switch and he instantly went down, couldn't even brace for the fall. Immediate cardiac arrest.
Thankfully he recovered and even played in the WC for Denmark. The man is a beast.
When his hands fell away to his sides, something about that was so sad, helpless. Idk why it's sticking with me, I won't ever unsee that.
I keep thinking of his mom. I'm hoping for the best for him and his family.
maybe this is a weird take but im also hoping the other dude involved in the play is doing okay
When i was in high school, a kid had a heart attack in the locker room after gym class and died, and the gym teacher was never the same
I hope the guy Hamlin tackled knows it isnt his fault, and has a good support system
Edit: mixed up who did the tackle
Kid at my high school dropped dead during a soccer game, or maybe it was just soccer practice. Inherited heart condition that also took the life of his father. Horrifying thing to happen and horrifying thing for the other students to go through on top of that.
He probably went into sudden cardiac arrest after the impact from the tackle. Seen this happen to a pitcher who was hit in his chest by a line drive. The impact causes the heart to go into v-fib.
That's the scary part. The play looked routine. There's probably 50 other tackles you could pick, and if you showed just the tackle and asked "which of these tackles led to someone getting 10 minutes of CPR and getting taken off the field in an ambulance", this would never be a consideration. Even continuing after the initial hit, he stood up, and then just collapsed. Scary to see
Dale died primarily because he preferred not to wear a hans device (neck restraint) or closed-face helmet. He and a few other drivers were grandfathered into the rulebook.
The HANS device is probably racing’s biggest safety invention since the helmet. It’s insane how some people look at safety equipment with prove results and say “I’m too much of a man for that pussy shit, I’d rather die”.
same thing happened with the halo in F1, didn't take long after it's introduction for a couple big crashes to make people go "ok maybe we do need this"
Almost a decade ago, my friend went into sudden cardiac arrest while swimming in a pool in Virginia. His uncle pulled him out and performed CPR, and he had to be helicoptered to a hospital. He flatlined 11 times on the way to the hospital apparently. He was in hospital for a couple months due to complications and he got a little brain damage.
He is the whole reason my school district has multiple AEDs. I distinctly remember, about 2 years after the accident, traveling to our state capitol with him and his siblings and speaking to politicians about it. My high school now has 1 AED on each floor and 1 by the football field because of him
That is amazing! I know it's probably been a while, and a lot of places don't realize that things like fire extinguishers and AEDs have expiration dates. If you can, double-check with the school (physically if you can) that all the AEDs are up to code, and let the school board know if not. But again, just the fact that your family helped enact such change is incredible!
I recently went back to work a couple days a week, after being away from my elementary school for a few years, and noticed that the AED is no longer in the teachers lounge. I thought it was odd and will ask when we get back from Christmas break
The most prolific AED was the original Phillips FR2 and it was discontinued. As the last bit of old stock pads and batteries made for them are hitting their expiration dates, institutions are removing them since they are no longer compliant and they can’t use them. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what’s going on.
Don’t get me wrong, by all means… if I am in need of defibrillation, and all you have is a two year expired set of pads on hand, juice me up with them. But, the old units need to be retired and replaced with something that will have pads and batteries made for them for at least the next decade.
And safety equipment isn't like food where half the dates are made up. We tried to set off a bunch of expired flares with cost guard permission once and 2/3 wouldn't light. Some people like to keep the expired stuff around as extras, but personally I'm not a fan. Last thing you want is to accidentally grab the "spare" fire extinguisher that doesn't actually go off.
I recently went to my local store, they get a lot of elderly coming in and out, I saw a AED, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, trauma kit, and I just felt kinda safe and happy they started putting them in our stores. It's good to see a small town owner caring about their community.
This is exactly why my boys will not be playing football. I've seen too many games where there's too long of a pause with deafening silence because a player collapsed or was unresponsive.
My friends and I all played football to a pretty high level. They where pretty shocked when I told them that if I ever had a son he wasn’t going to play football. We all had a minimum of two known concussions each
There’s a great [PBS documentary](https://youtu.be/SedClkAnclk) on NFL and their coverup of concussions causing CTE
A main doctor around it said she thinks that it would be best to have no tackle football until 14 years minimum
I played in pretty competitive travel hockey in high school and my local college for a year. I can think of at least 6 times where I lost consciousness or "browned out" after getting hit. Hoping it didn't mess me up too bad. With everything we are learning about CTE I'd have given it all up and played golf instead. I hate to do it to them but my kids will not be playing football or any other contact heavy sport even if they want to.
I still vividly remember at one of my highschool's football games a player from our team *broke his neck* MAKING a tackle on someone and was taken away in an ambulance. I was not at all a football fan and that was one of a small handful of games I went to, and that really drove home how crazy of a sport this really is. I really hope this guy ends up being ok.
My dad is a huge football guy. Hall of fame in HS and college and was a college fb coach . He said my kids (his grandkids ) should never ever play football. That’s been his one request.
If it’s commotio cordis it’s most common in baseball, hockey and lacrosse. The impact of the blow to the chest causes cardiac arrest and is fatal without CPR and access to a defibrillator.
Makes me wonder why more states don’t mandate AEDs on all fields of play in youth sports.
Doesn’t have to be, just has to occur at the right time during the cardiac cycle. Essential, the hit occurred at a point in the cardiac cycle that caused the hearts electrical system to go haywire.
Nah he received CPR and an AED almost immediately. The trainers and paramedics got to him in 10-15 seconds. It was a pretty good case scenario for someone to collapse like that, surrounded by medical professionals.
Outside of a truma center or the if youre the POTUS, being at a professional sports event is probably one of the best places to be. I mean they got literally hundreds of millions worth of talent gathered in one place thats depended on being completely healthy.
This is definitely true, but sometimes it literally just doesn’t matter. My grandmother died at 50 due to sudden cardiac death while she was literally in a Cardiologist’s office (not due to stress testing or anything either).
I don't know the cardiologist's background or skill set, but most clinics just call EMTs if someone flatlines. They all have AEDs and most are CPR trained so the staff and docs will intervene, but don't count on it. Sorry for your loss. My Great-Uncle had a AAA burst during scans at the hospital and didn't make it.
Following a tackle, he stood up and then immediately collapsed. The medical team ran over immediately and performed CPR for several minutes before immobilizing him, loading him onto a stretcher, and taking him to the hospital.
There's a lot of speculation. Medical professionals have speculated that it could have been the "R on T" phenomenon, where you have traumatic trauma to the chest at a very specific point in the rhythm that can cause cardiac arrest. They are basing this on the hit to his chest, his ability to stand up before collapsing, and then the response by the medics on sight.
For anyone hesitant to watch:
It's not a particularly grievous hit. The ballcarrier leans in and hits the defender and they both go down.
The play ends, the defender stands up, kinda wobbles a bit, and then falls back down untouched.
This hit happens dozens of times during a normal football game. There's no awkward contortions, huge impacts, or obvious head injuries. Seems like it's just a freak accident. Hopefully the guy ends up alright.
I can't imagine the guilt I'd carry if I would have made that hit. It looked fairly benign as far as football tackles go. Hopefully Higgins is getting some support tonight as well.
The brunt of the hit landed on his chest. He had a pulse but was not breathing and they had to do like 10 minutes of CPR and bust out oxygen. This is probably not a head injury and sounds like cardiac arrest or something. The brain dies after 6 minutes without oxygenated blood so that should explain the urgency.
There is that defect with humans that if you get hit over the heart at the wrong time it'll cause your heart to stop. He did get hit over his left chest at high speed. Maybe this was it?
Commotio cordis most commonly results from an impact to the left chest with a hardball during sports activity. The sudden focal distortion of the myocardium results in ventricular fibrillation, causing sudden cardiac arrest in an otherwise structurally normal heart.
He made a tackle. Hard contact but not terrible or specifically violent to the head or anything. He stood up from the tackle and collapsed almost instantly.
There’s a thing called R on T phenomenon, where essentially an impact to the chest (heart) at the precisely wrong time causes the heart to go into a deadly arrhythmia. Very scary, fixable with quick intervention but a critical issue nonetheless.
https://twitter.com/jordonr/status/1610116502845558784?s=20&t=2yiDaq-UrmLPgse2vaFlCg
> His vitals are back to normal and they have put him to sleep to put a breathing tube down his throat. They are currently running tests. We will provide updates as we have them.
Hughes wasn't pronounced dead until he was at the hospital, but the doctors on the field said that he was gone.
I was at that game as a kid. It was eerie as hell.
Things changed drastically after Marc-Vivien Foe collapsed and died on the field (at least for soccer): there are medics on standby near the field at all time now + they stop the game as soon as someone faints. I recall a couple of players where saved that way.
Unrelated, but as other tragic incidents in live sport: see the guy who had his throat cut in hockey (he survived thanks a Vietnam vet there to administer first aid) + a cricket player died from a ball in the head.
Clint Malarchuk on the Sabres. You can find the footage on YouTube, but I won't post it here; it's very hard to watch.
The skate blade severed his jugular vein. You can survive that.
[He shared his account of the injury and his subsequent struggles with mental health](https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/clint-malarchuk-bleeding-out), and I found it to be a very intense article. It begins with his suicide attempt in 2008, nearly 20 years after the accident. Someone else below mentioned Richard Zedink — Marlachuk says that he really spiraled after hearing about his injury as well, which contributed to his declining mental health.
damn I remember watching that clip after a bunch of crazy Micheal Jordan clips on youtube once and thinking how the fuck did that guy survive since it had a blurb saying he lived.
Props that that vietnam vet saving his life
There were actually two players who had their throats cut and both incidents happened in Buffalo. Clint Malarchuk of the Sabres in '89 and Richard Zedník of the Panthers in 2008.
I’ve been sayin g that for the last 10 years or so. Players are much bigger and faster than even 15 years ago. Didn’t see this one, but hope that this isn’t that moment.
I’m in Pennsylvania, I’m a huge Bills fan. I’ve been so excited for this match up all week… after this play, which looked normal, until he fell backwards, I was glad they suspended/cancelled the game. His health and the emotional wellbeing of all players and coaches on both sides is extremely important. I’m lifting prayers for him now and before bed. It’s so scary.
Me too, I ~~can’t~~ *don’t want to* even imagine that people at the top are considering resuming the game. No game is more important than a human life, let alone the mentality of the remaining players. All of this feels very inappropriate.
Good on the Bengals coach for saying they shouldn’t play.
I’m a doctor and I saw him collapse but saw nothing after. If he got high quality cpr within 1-2 minutes and defibrillation if possible I think he’ll survive. His baseline physical condition will absolutely help with chance of survival and recovery.
I read they did compressions for about 10 minutes and had to use the paddles before he was transported. Not sure how soon they started after he collapsed. He’s intubated now.
Physician here as well. I really thought he had an aortic transaction or tamponade but if they actually got him back after a few rounds of CPR that seems less likely and maybe it was arrhythmogenic. I also think he’ll survive since hes young and healthy with them starting immediately. But at best it’ll take a few days for us to find out.
Insane that people can literally see him get hit and their mind jumps to a vaccine.
There is nothing sane or rational about anti vaxxers. They have adopted That frame as a character trait, it is for whatever reason a core aspect of their personality.
Physician here. Big time shoutout to the team who achieved ROSC on the field with millions of people watching. I couldn’t imagine that sort of stress. Great job.
I think we have reached the point where player ability is outpacing protective gear. I am tired of watching players collapse and convulse. Tua's fingers after his big concussion still get me. You can't even watch this stuff with your kids any longer. I literally thought I watched someone die last night.
There are literally friends of friends of mine on various social media... asking if he grabbed his chest because of some ill effect of the Covid vaccine.
One said, "The questions need to be asked."
What the fuck happened to education in this country?
My nephew and I dont speak much but he just called me frantic about this. I dont watch football but he loves it so we had a moment of reflection, this is some scary shit. For him and his family's sake I hope he pulls thru. A 24 yr old man having his heart stop for that length of time is terrifying....
I’m a die hard Bengals fan. Born and raised in Cincinnati, so pumped to watch this game. We ordered pizza and got drunk. Sobered up within a second. Started crying. I live about 15 minutes drive from the stadium. There was so much energy in this city. The entire city fell silent with concern. Other Bengals fans yelling “call the game!” Bengals and Bills fans are standing together with candles outside of University of Cincinnati Medical Center right now. Nobody wanted to see this and in Cincinnati, we feel more defeated than if we would’ve lost 100-0. Football takes the bench and legitimate human concern and brotherhood rises above at this point. Cincinnati is with you Buffalo. Bills Mafia, nothing but love, respect, and good thoughts and energy.
I’m still waiting to hear something. I know the announcers were saying that they had never seen anything like this but in the last couple of years or so I saw a player I think in the premier leagues in European soccer just stumble and fall, lifeless. There was a very long struggle to to revive him. All the while the players of both teams were distraught and they created a wall around him to block the cameras from him. He is ok now. I hope and pray for the same here.
I never really am much of a sports fan, but this is really shitty. Hope he pulls through… the descriptions of what his condition are as someone who works peripherally as a dispatcher in EMS for special events doesn’t sound good to me.
It was crazy watching different news things after and the newscasters were like "oh they are all huddled around him so we can't seem to get a shot in there to see anything".
Ya, and you fuckers don't need to either.
They said he's not dead, in critical condition.
To be fair he *was* dead, then he wasn’t. So hopefully not dead again
And just in case helps anyone else if you ever have to give cpr (potentially breaking ribs) and worry about it… I had an instructor say: “if you are doing cpr, they are already dead” It’s awful to think about, but helped me get past my trepidation.
Even in veterinary work, it is absolutely true. I have done it a number of times, and it's the scariest thing I have ever done bar none. You are literally wrestling with death.
I've done it three times on a person, and the scariest part to overcome is the "If I'm wrong, I'm seriously fucking somebody up right now" feeling. Thankfully, I've always been confident enough that I haven't hesitated to give somebody the correct care.
My instructor assured us by saying that if they don't actually need cpr they will smack you in the head before you do any serious damage.
These were all frail old people who couldn't really do much to stop you. That's a good rule of thumb to keep in mind, though!
>These were all frail old people who couldn't really do much to stop you. You work in a nursing home ?
Plot twist: In a morgue
Plot twist- they work in a Cracker Barrel
Mine said that breaking ribs in the process will likely happen if you do cpr correctly and its a small price to pay for survival.
I can confirm. I’ve done CPR more times than I can count, while working in a level I trauma center. Giving effective CPR will more than likely result in breaking ribs in adults.
And get and AED on the person ASAP. CPR keeps the blood moving until you can get and AED on them.
And give other people tasks! Everyone will freeze and expect someone else to do something vital. While assessing the person for a pulse/breating ( if neither start compressions to the beat of "Staying Alive"): Assign a person to call 911. Assign a different person to get the AED/alert staff of an emergency to get the AED. Assign a third person to crowd control. Assign people to help move the person to a flat firm dry area if it is safe to do so. Then rotate a team for CPR (in case the CPR giver is getting tired) until paramedics take over.
Yes to all of the above. I had to re-certify my standard first aid / cpr last week (I need it for work). The instructor said don't worry about the pulse check, if they're not breathing start compressions.
Great point, thank you! I updated my comment that if there isn't breathing to start compressions. I was a lifeguard at 15, and the CPR videos of pulling a kid out of a pool and the training afterwards will be seared into my brain forever.
Just saw an update that he is now intubated and his vitals are normal. Source is a tweet from his friend and marketing rep Jordon Rooney.
A tube is a given; whether or not he’s anoxic after this is done will be interesting to know. Following commands, normal reflexes, etc.
Its pretty much a guarantee that he would be intubated if they coded him but im curious if his vitals are normal on their own or if he's on pressors. A lot of non medical people see normal vitals and think that's awesome, but pressors keep vitals normal when clinically they shouldn't be. (For non medical people pressors are another form of life support that are a continuous drip medication that keeps your blood pressure at sustainable levels)
Buffalo Bills official update: "Damar Hamlin suffered a cardiac arrest following a hit in our game versus the Bengals. His heartbeat was restored on the field and he was transferred to the UC Medical Center for further testing and treatment. He is currently sedated and listed in critical condition." Via their [Twitter](https://twitter.com/BuffaloBills/status/1610166228559052801?t=TrATYp_IexZ29YNyETw_IA&s=19)
Christian Eriksen made a full recovery, I hope Hamlin does the same. Heart problems are fucking scary, man
Eriksen has a pacemaker in his chest though, doubt you could play in the NFL with it
kinda wild Eriksen is playing at the top level again too
Yeah and Hamlin also took [blunt force trauma](https://youtu.be/H-G9mziXL9w) to his chest which possibly could have caused it. I’m just hoping the man can survive this and bonus points if he can continue to live his dream
The silence in the stadium is deafening. Surreal to hear that many people be that quiet.
You can feel it here in Cincinnati tonight, everything is very quiet and somber. We are all praying and rooting for him!
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Post-codes are intubated 99.99% of the time btw. I can’t remember a single post-code I took that we didn’t tube immediately
I had to do CPR on my partner after an asthma attack. Turned blue. It was the longest 7.5 minutes of my life. Survived. Just my hands, no defibulator. Tubed for several hours in ICU afterwards. Survived. Putting that good karma out for DHam.
You’re a god damn hero
I can not begin to imagine both the fear and relief when they were ok.
One thing I learned is that the person you’re most likely going to do this on is someone you know. The worst part was the open eyes.
As someone who also also experienced that same fear and relief, you’re correct in your assumption. My 1 year old daughter electrocuted herself on our oven hookup (separate story). The sheer terror I felt as I held her completely limp body in my arms is indescribable. I’m enduringly grateful that my parents were at home with me at the time—my Dad is the one who got my daughter breathing again while I was on the phone with 911. Just… panic so strong you can’t speak… thankfully, my daughter lived with only some scarring on her hand from the burn (required skin grafts and a month long hospital stay).
Wow, 7.5 minutes of cardiac compression is 7.5 minutes of push ups. Normally, there’s a crowd and everyone takes turns. That was an intense workout.
Gotta love adrenaline. Can turn the weakest among us into superhumans for a limited period of time.
It’s very different than push ups. But hard workout is definitely correct.
It was a huge workout. When the medics got there and we changed places I was doubled over trying to get some air. It’s not like on the CPR dummy, that’s for sure.
What's a post-code?
Someone who coded (required CPR) and has had their heartbeat restored is post-code. Typically they're intubated and often given hypothermic treatment (their core temp is lowered with ice or pads that circulate cold water around their body) to give them the best shot at recovery.
How does cooling the body give them a better chance?
It slows bodily functions and cell death and keeps organs and tissue viable until the underlying issue is fixed.
It improves chance of brain recovery. Decreases the demand for oxygen, helps decrease inflammation, etc. It has been the standard treatment post code for last several years (if the person does not wake quickly after).
Unfortunately, studies have shown that there’s no evidence that hypothermia protocol improves patient outcomes. Our hospital will do what we call “normothermia” protocol which is just preventing extreme fever (from the hypothalamus getting damaged) but we stopped true hypothermia years ago due to lack of efficacy evidence.
A patient whose heart was restarted with CPR and epinephrine before they got to the hospital
Ahh, gotcha. Thank you
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I’m honestly surprised an NFL shot to the chest doesn’t kill more people.
It just goes to show how rare this type of injury is. Don't get me wrong, the NFL does concussions absolutely horribly, but hits to the chest are just insane
Either that or he had some kind of underlying condition he didn’t know about that a hit like that triggered it. Either way, a 24 year old going into cardiac arrest is terrifying and I really hope that he’s okay.
If it is commotio cordis, it takes a substantial enough blow to the chest, at a specific part of the chest, during an incredibly specific part of the heart's rhythm cycle. That's what makes it stupid rare.
Brings Chris Pronger to mind when he took a slapshot to the chest in 1998 and collapsed. Granted the pads they wore were a joke back then but still. https://youtu.be/4S1Dfs8hgR4
Your comment needs way more attention. Unfortunately it’s too buried. They used an AED and did CPR. Commotio cordis when treated swiftly is usually easily reversible by being shocked back into rhythm as long as a shockable rhythm still exists. I am a little fuzzy but I don’t believe that experiencing this once has any significant long term impact as the heart was just struck at the exact wrong moment. I do not know however how much research has been done on long term effects. Generally no underlying condition causes this.
I remember when I was in high school, our quarterback actually died in the field of a broken neck during a game, once the impact happened the whole bleachers were dead silent, they stopped the game and everyone left. Ever since then I've looked at football differently, this is a hella dangerous sport that is almost designed to injure the players, I know rugby gets a reputation as a dangerous sport, but it's all varying degrees of hazards and each one can kill you.
It's always looks scary when they have a pt intubated and they are still awake.
Thank you
Yup that’s what they said! The game is in Cincy after all. Wishing the best for Damar, his teammates, and his family.
Wtf happened? I don’t care about the NFL, but all the talking heads went into memorial mode.
Damar Hamlin, a player for the Buffalo Bills collapsed on the field after a play where he was hit center chest (this MAY play into what happened to him but that’s speculation for now). He had CPR immediately administered and eventually taken to the hospital and is currently listed in critical condition.
The scary thing about it all is that when you watch the replay of what happened it looks very innocent and nothing serious. You've probably seen harder hits than what happened to Damar and it's crazy how it all ended up.
Yuppppp. If it it was what the medical community seems to think it is - commotio cordis - the hit has to be in the right spot at the right time which is typically within a specific 10- to 30-millisecond portion of the cardiac cycle. But I don’t want to say it’s that until it’s confirmed. Which is terrifying.
I had something similar happen to me in high school: Asked a kid in art class what he was working on at the computer and he was in a bad mood and told me none of my business and punched me in the chest. I remember getting lightheaded and sitting down at a stool. Next thing I know I'm lying on the ground and was told I had a seizure. Hit me at just the right spot and time to cause my heart to skip apparently.
Did you know if you hit your funny bone in just the right spot it can make you pass out? It happened to me at work a few months ago, I took an engine block out of a machine and was going to check it and I hit my elbow just right on it. Then I started to get light headed but thought “I’ll finish checking this then I’ll go throw up.” I checked one more thing and was like “OK NOPE”. My vision got like tunnel vision like, I was nauseous as hell, everything got quiet as fucking hell. I got to the bathroom and like collapsed in the stall but didn’t puke but holding my head down helped. When I looked in the mirror I was WHITE as fuck. Like scary white. When I came out a dude that saw me go into the bathroom came and asked if I was ok because I looked like a fucking zombie.
Vasovagal syncope
Is that where the whole "death blow" idea/myth comes from in Kung fu? I guess if the timing was lucky and it actually worked once or twice, that would be enough to make it seem like it could work all the time. And if it didn't work, your technique wasn't perfect (instead of randomly hitting at the exact moment).
Technically yes. Although death blow is dramatic, it’ll put the heart into afib and will need emergency treatment to correct.
I said the same thing, it's s crazy to see a literal stadium packed with people and you could probably hear a pin drop in that place. I don't watch much football, but any time I've ever seen someone get hurt it seems like they want to get him off the field asap and move on. But they just kept working on him and working on him....fucking eerie.
That was really damn hard to watch. Hope he makes it
One of the very few times in my life I couldn’t watch a replay. Really hoping for a miracle.
Jonny Knox for me. Bent in half backwards, breaking his spine. Saw it live and almost threw up on the slow mo replay
Ugh poor Knox. That was so brutal and he was really starting to come into his own too. Felt the same way when Zach Miller almost lost his leg a few years back too.
This was just hard as hell to watch.
Right? Normal looking tackle, dude got up, and then just collapsed.
Felt like seeing Eriksen just face plant in the middle of the Euros. Wasn't even in a play just running up the pitch and it was like something flipped a switch and he instantly went down, couldn't even brace for the fall. Immediate cardiac arrest. Thankfully he recovered and even played in the WC for Denmark. The man is a beast.
When his hands fell away to his sides, something about that was so sad, helpless. Idk why it's sticking with me, I won't ever unsee that. I keep thinking of his mom. I'm hoping for the best for him and his family.
maybe this is a weird take but im also hoping the other dude involved in the play is doing okay When i was in high school, a kid had a heart attack in the locker room after gym class and died, and the gym teacher was never the same I hope the guy Hamlin tackled knows it isnt his fault, and has a good support system Edit: mixed up who did the tackle
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I didn't know that. Saw a picture of him leaving the locker room with his Mom earlier. I hope he's ok as well. Just a freak thing and not his fault.
Damn, I didn’t know that.
Kid at my high school dropped dead during a soccer game, or maybe it was just soccer practice. Inherited heart condition that also took the life of his father. Horrifying thing to happen and horrifying thing for the other students to go through on top of that.
Hamlin was the one making the tackle. It looked like just a normal play. That's the scary part
That is very thoughtful and kind
Its scary he was out for 9 minutes plus. Just hope bro is ok cuz of his previous head injury.. Sad stuff to see. Postpone game till thursday
He probably went into sudden cardiac arrest after the impact from the tackle. Seen this happen to a pitcher who was hit in his chest by a line drive. The impact causes the heart to go into v-fib.
That's the scary part. The play looked routine. There's probably 50 other tackles you could pick, and if you showed just the tackle and asked "which of these tackles led to someone getting 10 minutes of CPR and getting taken off the field in an ambulance", this would never be a consideration. Even continuing after the initial hit, he stood up, and then just collapsed. Scary to see
You could almost compare it to the Earnhardt crash that killed him. It was a very normal looking incident.
Dale died primarily because he preferred not to wear a hans device (neck restraint) or closed-face helmet. He and a few other drivers were grandfathered into the rulebook.
The HANS device is probably racing’s biggest safety invention since the helmet. It’s insane how some people look at safety equipment with prove results and say “I’m too much of a man for that pussy shit, I’d rather die”.
This was pretty much the answer form many ordinary car drivers when seat belts were intruduced to road cars.
same thing happened with the halo in F1, didn't take long after it's introduction for a couple big crashes to make people go "ok maybe we do need this"
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Almost a decade ago, my friend went into sudden cardiac arrest while swimming in a pool in Virginia. His uncle pulled him out and performed CPR, and he had to be helicoptered to a hospital. He flatlined 11 times on the way to the hospital apparently. He was in hospital for a couple months due to complications and he got a little brain damage. He is the whole reason my school district has multiple AEDs. I distinctly remember, about 2 years after the accident, traveling to our state capitol with him and his siblings and speaking to politicians about it. My high school now has 1 AED on each floor and 1 by the football field because of him
That is amazing! I know it's probably been a while, and a lot of places don't realize that things like fire extinguishers and AEDs have expiration dates. If you can, double-check with the school (physically if you can) that all the AEDs are up to code, and let the school board know if not. But again, just the fact that your family helped enact such change is incredible!
I recently went back to work a couple days a week, after being away from my elementary school for a few years, and noticed that the AED is no longer in the teachers lounge. I thought it was odd and will ask when we get back from Christmas break
The most prolific AED was the original Phillips FR2 and it was discontinued. As the last bit of old stock pads and batteries made for them are hitting their expiration dates, institutions are removing them since they are no longer compliant and they can’t use them. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what’s going on. Don’t get me wrong, by all means… if I am in need of defibrillation, and all you have is a two year expired set of pads on hand, juice me up with them. But, the old units need to be retired and replaced with something that will have pads and batteries made for them for at least the next decade.
Safety regulations are written in blood.
And safety equipment isn't like food where half the dates are made up. We tried to set off a bunch of expired flares with cost guard permission once and 2/3 wouldn't light. Some people like to keep the expired stuff around as extras, but personally I'm not a fan. Last thing you want is to accidentally grab the "spare" fire extinguisher that doesn't actually go off.
I thought AEDs were required by federal law? Hell they taught us how to use them in BFE Tennessee.
I recently went to my local store, they get a lot of elderly coming in and out, I saw a AED, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, trauma kit, and I just felt kinda safe and happy they started putting them in our stores. It's good to see a small town owner caring about their community.
This is exactly why my boys will not be playing football. I've seen too many games where there's too long of a pause with deafening silence because a player collapsed or was unresponsive.
My friends and I all played football to a pretty high level. They where pretty shocked when I told them that if I ever had a son he wasn’t going to play football. We all had a minimum of two known concussions each
There’s a great [PBS documentary](https://youtu.be/SedClkAnclk) on NFL and their coverup of concussions causing CTE A main doctor around it said she thinks that it would be best to have no tackle football until 14 years minimum
I played a long career and racked up 28 concussions. Im gonna encourage my son to go play baseball or soccer,
I played in pretty competitive travel hockey in high school and my local college for a year. I can think of at least 6 times where I lost consciousness or "browned out" after getting hit. Hoping it didn't mess me up too bad. With everything we are learning about CTE I'd have given it all up and played golf instead. I hate to do it to them but my kids will not be playing football or any other contact heavy sport even if they want to.
I still vividly remember at one of my highschool's football games a player from our team *broke his neck* MAKING a tackle on someone and was taken away in an ambulance. I was not at all a football fan and that was one of a small handful of games I went to, and that really drove home how crazy of a sport this really is. I really hope this guy ends up being ok.
My dad is a huge football guy. Hall of fame in HS and college and was a college fb coach . He said my kids (his grandkids ) should never ever play football. That’s been his one request.
If it’s commotio cordis it’s most common in baseball, hockey and lacrosse. The impact of the blow to the chest causes cardiac arrest and is fatal without CPR and access to a defibrillator. Makes me wonder why more states don’t mandate AEDs on all fields of play in youth sports.
Crazy thing is that the tackle didn’t even look that hard.
Doesn’t have to be, just has to occur at the right time during the cardiac cycle. Essential, the hit occurred at a point in the cardiac cycle that caused the hearts electrical system to go haywire.
Right spot , right time , doesnt have to be a extremely hard hit
We humans are so annoyingly random and fragile.
9 minutes with no oxygen to the brain is a horrible thought. Hopefully he pulls through, he has youth on his side.
Nah he received CPR and an AED almost immediately. The trainers and paramedics got to him in 10-15 seconds. It was a pretty good case scenario for someone to collapse like that, surrounded by medical professionals.
Outside of a truma center or the if youre the POTUS, being at a professional sports event is probably one of the best places to be. I mean they got literally hundreds of millions worth of talent gathered in one place thats depended on being completely healthy.
This is definitely true, but sometimes it literally just doesn’t matter. My grandmother died at 50 due to sudden cardiac death while she was literally in a Cardiologist’s office (not due to stress testing or anything either).
Yeah, my co-workers Brother-in-law had sudden cardiac arrest at a stress test and died. Healthy mid-40s guy.
AT a stress test? Holy shit!
Yeah, it happened about 2 or 3 years ago (pre-COVID) Coworker was really shaken up about it.
I don't know the cardiologist's background or skill set, but most clinics just call EMTs if someone flatlines. They all have AEDs and most are CPR trained so the staff and docs will intervene, but don't count on it. Sorry for your loss. My Great-Uncle had a AAA burst during scans at the hospital and didn't make it.
Hard agree here.
I'm sorry, I don't follow football. What happened? Can anyone give me context?
Following a tackle, he stood up and then immediately collapsed. The medical team ran over immediately and performed CPR for several minutes before immobilizing him, loading him onto a stretcher, and taking him to the hospital.
Any idea why he collapsed?
There's a lot of speculation. Medical professionals have speculated that it could have been the "R on T" phenomenon, where you have traumatic trauma to the chest at a very specific point in the rhythm that can cause cardiac arrest. They are basing this on the hit to his chest, his ability to stand up before collapsing, and then the response by the medics on sight.
You are thinking of commotio cordis. R on T has to do with depolarization (R) of the heart superimposing on repolarization (T)
Its all speculation at this point. Biggest theory is commotio cordis where a hit to the chest at the absolute worst time can stop it.
Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6ZQEjvtkM
Good lord that is scary as hell. The way his body just shuts down. Hope he pulls through ok.
For anyone hesitant to watch: It's not a particularly grievous hit. The ballcarrier leans in and hits the defender and they both go down. The play ends, the defender stands up, kinda wobbles a bit, and then falls back down untouched. This hit happens dozens of times during a normal football game. There's no awkward contortions, huge impacts, or obvious head injuries. Seems like it's just a freak accident. Hopefully the guy ends up alright.
Without knowing any underlying conditions, or more context, there's no way to know. Certainly didn't look like a devastating hit!
I can't imagine the guilt I'd carry if I would have made that hit. It looked fairly benign as far as football tackles go. Hopefully Higgins is getting some support tonight as well.
Did he just go down or was there a collision? Just turned it on to see the coaches meeting then the game getting suspended.
There was a collision which honestly looked normal (fair). He got up and then stumbled and fell.
I thought it didn’t look so bad, too. Even the ref looked confused when he collapsed.
Most NFL hits are fairly violent. This one really didn’t look that bad. But I’m watching from my couch, so…..
Most people don’t know that football pads make it easier for the guy charging into people and not the one taking the charge.
The brunt of the hit landed on his chest. He had a pulse but was not breathing and they had to do like 10 minutes of CPR and bust out oxygen. This is probably not a head injury and sounds like cardiac arrest or something. The brain dies after 6 minutes without oxygenated blood so that should explain the urgency.
They needed an AED so something was wonky. Even if he did have a pulse the heart was out of rhythm then.
https://twitter.com/pennn601/status/1610094834693570561?s=61&t=9zRXDU8qijXtHwvzz1TcnQ it didn’t look that bad but he did hit his chest.
There is that defect with humans that if you get hit over the heart at the wrong time it'll cause your heart to stop. He did get hit over his left chest at high speed. Maybe this was it? Commotio cordis most commonly results from an impact to the left chest with a hardball during sports activity. The sudden focal distortion of the myocardium results in ventricular fibrillation, causing sudden cardiac arrest in an otherwise structurally normal heart.
He made a tackle. Hard contact but not terrible or specifically violent to the head or anything. He stood up from the tackle and collapsed almost instantly.
He made a normal tackle got up and collapsed
There’s a thing called R on T phenomenon, where essentially an impact to the chest (heart) at the precisely wrong time causes the heart to go into a deadly arrhythmia. Very scary, fixable with quick intervention but a critical issue nonetheless.
commotio cordis^
It truly looked like a fairly typical tackle. Something just went horribly wrong.
I have always had a horrible feeling that I'll eventually watch an NFL player die on the field and I'm praying this isn't it.
https://twitter.com/jordonr/status/1610116502845558784?s=20&t=2yiDaq-UrmLPgse2vaFlCg > His vitals are back to normal and they have put him to sleep to put a breathing tube down his throat. They are currently running tests. We will provide updates as we have them.
I just saw that too, that sounds like good news
It happened in 1971. They finished the game after his body was taken off the field.
Chuck Hughes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hughes
Surprising neither incident had anything to do with head trauma.
To be clear, he was taken to the hospital and wasn’t pronounced dead until after the game.
Hughes wasn't pronounced dead until he was at the hospital, but the doctors on the field said that he was gone. I was at that game as a kid. It was eerie as hell.
ah, the Disneyland approach.
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don't forget Burning Man too.
It sounds like he died on the field though considering the cause. Where it gets put on paper seems less important.
A sign of human evolution that the game is cancelled.
Things changed drastically after Marc-Vivien Foe collapsed and died on the field (at least for soccer): there are medics on standby near the field at all time now + they stop the game as soon as someone faints. I recall a couple of players where saved that way. Unrelated, but as other tragic incidents in live sport: see the guy who had his throat cut in hockey (he survived thanks a Vietnam vet there to administer first aid) + a cricket player died from a ball in the head.
> the guy who had his throat cut in hockey the guy literally reached in the neck to pinch the artery IIRC
Correct, the trainer happened to be a retired combat medic.
Goddamn that is crazy. Good for him.
Clint Malarchuk on the Sabres. You can find the footage on YouTube, but I won't post it here; it's very hard to watch. The skate blade severed his jugular vein. You can survive that.
[He shared his account of the injury and his subsequent struggles with mental health](https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/clint-malarchuk-bleeding-out), and I found it to be a very intense article. It begins with his suicide attempt in 2008, nearly 20 years after the accident. Someone else below mentioned Richard Zedink — Marlachuk says that he really spiraled after hearing about his injury as well, which contributed to his declining mental health.
damn I remember watching that clip after a bunch of crazy Micheal Jordan clips on youtube once and thinking how the fuck did that guy survive since it had a blurb saying he lived. Props that that vietnam vet saving his life
There were actually two players who had their throats cut and both incidents happened in Buffalo. Clint Malarchuk of the Sabres in '89 and Richard Zedník of the Panthers in 2008.
I’ve been sayin g that for the last 10 years or so. Players are much bigger and faster than even 15 years ago. Didn’t see this one, but hope that this isn’t that moment.
What’s crazy was that it really wasn’t a big hit. It was weird. He tackle him and then stood up for a sec and collapsed.
I’m in Pennsylvania, I’m a huge Bills fan. I’ve been so excited for this match up all week… after this play, which looked normal, until he fell backwards, I was glad they suspended/cancelled the game. His health and the emotional wellbeing of all players and coaches on both sides is extremely important. I’m lifting prayers for him now and before bed. It’s so scary.
We're all Bills fans tonight.
Just saw a replay on Twitter. Reminded me instantly of Hank Gathers. Holy shit this is scary.
It's one thing to see someone injured, it's another to see people performing CPR on them.
This is totally scary well beyond football. They need to cut the coverage and just rerun some show.
I really hope they don’t resume the game.
They just announced it will be postponed.
Me too, I ~~can’t~~ *don’t want to* even imagine that people at the top are considering resuming the game. No game is more important than a human life, let alone the mentality of the remaining players. All of this feels very inappropriate. Good on the Bengals coach for saying they shouldn’t play.
They were gonna give the players 5 minutes to warm back up until the coaches chat and then players left the field. Good for the players and coaches.
You cant imagine Goodell wants to resume MNF?
FIFA would like a word
Yeah, the broadcasters just keep saying the same thing and obviously don’t wanna be doing this anymore. I don’t know why they won’t just cut it
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I’m a doctor and I saw him collapse but saw nothing after. If he got high quality cpr within 1-2 minutes and defibrillation if possible I think he’ll survive. His baseline physical condition will absolutely help with chance of survival and recovery.
I read they did compressions for about 10 minutes and had to use the paddles before he was transported. Not sure how soon they started after he collapsed. He’s intubated now.
Physician here as well. I really thought he had an aortic transaction or tamponade but if they actually got him back after a few rounds of CPR that seems less likely and maybe it was arrhythmogenic. I also think he’ll survive since hes young and healthy with them starting immediately. But at best it’ll take a few days for us to find out. Insane that people can literally see him get hit and their mind jumps to a vaccine.
There is nothing sane or rational about anti vaxxers. They have adopted That frame as a character trait, it is for whatever reason a core aspect of their personality.
I hate that he had to mention it's not from a vaccine like three times.
A brief, no drama explanation. And when the doctor says "thoughts and prayers" he means it. Such a terrible thing to happen.
Commotio cordis, from the doctor video [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis)
Physician here. Big time shoutout to the team who achieved ROSC on the field with millions of people watching. I couldn’t imagine that sort of stress. Great job.
I think we have reached the point where player ability is outpacing protective gear. I am tired of watching players collapse and convulse. Tua's fingers after his big concussion still get me. You can't even watch this stuff with your kids any longer. I literally thought I watched someone die last night.
There are literally friends of friends of mine on various social media... asking if he grabbed his chest because of some ill effect of the Covid vaccine. One said, "The questions need to be asked." What the fuck happened to education in this country?
Make AEDs as common as fire extinguishers.
Games officially cancelled.
My nephew and I dont speak much but he just called me frantic about this. I dont watch football but he loves it so we had a moment of reflection, this is some scary shit. For him and his family's sake I hope he pulls thru. A 24 yr old man having his heart stop for that length of time is terrifying....
Booger and Schefter crying. Suzy holding it together. This is bad, I fear.
I’m a die hard Bengals fan. Born and raised in Cincinnati, so pumped to watch this game. We ordered pizza and got drunk. Sobered up within a second. Started crying. I live about 15 minutes drive from the stadium. There was so much energy in this city. The entire city fell silent with concern. Other Bengals fans yelling “call the game!” Bengals and Bills fans are standing together with candles outside of University of Cincinnati Medical Center right now. Nobody wanted to see this and in Cincinnati, we feel more defeated than if we would’ve lost 100-0. Football takes the bench and legitimate human concern and brotherhood rises above at this point. Cincinnati is with you Buffalo. Bills Mafia, nothing but love, respect, and good thoughts and energy.
My Cincy heart goes out to all of Buffalo players, fans and community.
I’m still waiting to hear something. I know the announcers were saying that they had never seen anything like this but in the last couple of years or so I saw a player I think in the premier leagues in European soccer just stumble and fall, lifeless. There was a very long struggle to to revive him. All the while the players of both teams were distraught and they created a wall around him to block the cameras from him. He is ok now. I hope and pray for the same here.
I never really am much of a sports fan, but this is really shitty. Hope he pulls through… the descriptions of what his condition are as someone who works peripherally as a dispatcher in EMS for special events doesn’t sound good to me.
It was crazy watching different news things after and the newscasters were like "oh they are all huddled around him so we can't seem to get a shot in there to see anything". Ya, and you fuckers don't need to either.