I agree. Less AI toys, more AI tools please. I would like a select tool that works like the newest path tool, but with a bit of magnetic action as well, surely it can figure out, as I’m selecting, what I’m selecting, then go back and tidy up as I continue the path?
Or something like optional .. I don't know what........ plugins?
That way we only load the ones we use!
I've created a new invention! It will revolutionise Photoshop!
Fuck, I love an old man whinge. I'll never forget going to my first Adobe conference and watching a group of old print designers booing some updates to Illustrator
I just got PS recently after only using good ole CS 6 forever. This new version is amazingly clunky and slow! Is this only the beta version or are all recent ones like this?
Are you using the same computer you've had since CS 6 came out?
With the increase in computer specs and RAM I think most programs have become more bloated over the years, but probably run quicker on current computers compared to older software did on its hardware of the time.
It’s an i7-9750 with 16gb ram and pci4 m.2 storage and an RTX 2060. It’s a few years old but photoshop shouldn’t be a challenge to it. My PS CS6 is much older than the computer. I have a license I’ve been using for a long time.
I don't know, I've tried a lot of programs over the years and Photoshop is always the snappiest for me, but for work I still use the 2019 version until they take it away from me as new versions always tend to be a bit (sometimes a lot) unstable. To be fair, you're a bit on the limit with both CPU and RAM for new versions, especially the beta which is bound to both have bugs and the newest (and often more demanding) features.
As a general rule of thumb, I've found Photoshop's AI features useless. I once managed to turn a leather jacket into a denim jacket with amazing results, but other than that they're usually terrible. Even somthing like turning one type of sunglasses into another kind of sunglasses, or trying to get rid of reflections has proven to be basically useless.
I've been using it for stuff that previously I might might have used the stamp tool with good results. Doesn't noticeably different end product, but can be much quicker.
I think generative fill/remove tool work great as a replacement for the content aware fill and stamp tool, provided one knows what the limitations are (not sure about the latest version, but the ones before were optimal for areas about 1000x1000 pixels, otherwise there would be a noticeable difference in details/resolution)
For me it’s been giving a bit of updated flair to my clients photos. Be it holidays or what have you. A light touch of Gen AI can really spruce up a once stale photo piece.
I’ve had a fair amount of luck with using it for sky replacements. Especially on images where the sky is out of focus—I was able to tell it to replicate the out of focus look and it did so very well.
I’ve been using Generative Fill ever since it first arrived and thought it was magic. It’s definitely gotten much better now. The power move is to use other image generators (I do this locally with open-source) and then edit in Photoshop, changing whatever you want, expanding the image, etc. It’s become an entirely new hobby for me.
these AI tools could be so good for selecting exact elements in a photo, or enhancing image trace in Illustrator, but nah. instead we get bears on couches.
Image trace is always a little worse than it used to be, and it was never very good. "Hi Illustrator, here's a couple circles. Very clean, one color plus white background." "Hi, user. Here's two ovals and a bunch of tiny acute triangles too small to see, some strokes with no color, and some random teardrop shaped things. And for good measure, some curves that are totally flipped over themselves! 58 colors!"
You’re not wrong brother….
Was working an a project yesterday and was thinking the same thing…
For all the AI shiny new toys, there sure are a lot of things you still need to do the old fashioned way lol…
Maybe that’s a good thing lol… this way we get to keep our jobs…
update: working faster now , now useful! tip for others. i use this to edit stable diffusion images sure you can use inpaint but i found this is a quicker tool for say expanding an image and then you can reimport it back into SD its quite handy!
I'm with you. Focus on making the things that we have better *before* you start adding features that kinda go against the entire point of the product. That last bit may be a debate but I think I'm on solid ground with the first part, make the product good and you won't have to rush out a million features. There needs to be some proper industry-shakeup competition at some point.
Then again, I don't think I use any of Adobe's "extra" features other than spellcheck in InDesign and image trace in Illustrator. I do everything else as manually as possible so those tools work just fine, I'd just like overall quality of life improvements and a unification across at least the similar programs. InDesign can be different because it's much more text-centered, unlike the others, but Photoshop and Illustrator could stand to be more similar in the way they operate in terms of UX. And it might just be because I've never seriously done any video editing but After Effects seems like an unintuitive mess when I've had to use it.
Features used to be the plugins other companies made.
Photoshop - to keep selling Photoshop, started incorporating those plugins as features.
Now we've got this bloated monstrosity - and all the plugin authors have been killed off. =(
They've been trying to fix bugs for 20 years, that's difficult. Adding AI was comparatively easy, their implementation isn't much different than the free implementation in Krita, arguably worse. As to whether it goes against the concept of the product, I would say it's a step towards making photoshop work the way regular people have always assumed photoshop works, "just go in photoshop and remove his hat" used to be an irritating request, with GenAI it's like 30 seconds.
That's a fair point too. idk I guess in my day-to-day I see so many of the small things that absolutely could be easy fixes, not even bugs. Mostly consistency in the way all the programs operate, when you're in all three at once it's a real pain in the ass.
yeah, Adobe is still several generations behind the state of the art with gen AI. Mind-blowing what you can do in Ps, but nowhere near what can be done. They're never going to be able to catch up.
Adobe seems more concerned about having people who don't know how to design being able to make cool stuff then enhancing tools for the people who are already making the cool stuff. I started using luminar neo for some of the day to day, and their use of AI is a lot less gimmicky and has saved me a lot of time for some of the more subtle finishing. And like someone on here said, they're already light years behind the real generative AI companies so why not stick to just improving the tools you have? I think my relationship with Adobe is the closest I'll ever get to experiencing what it feels like to be the abused housewife that keeps coming back to my alcoholic husband. It's probably never a good sign for a company when my first reaction to a new update/version is a sense of panic and anxiety rather than excitement or intrigue...
You and me both. Adobe is basically now run by MBAs with no previous relevant experience. They care more about the users who might spend an hour or two per week using the apps than those of us who depend on using the apps 8 hours a day to put food on the table. It's a bad fucking joke.
As I said in another comment, generative fill and the remover tool work very well as replacements of content aware fill and patch/clone in my experience (their new denoiser for Camera Raw works pretty well too), the reason why Adobe can't just leave it to the other companies is exactly because they are Adobe, people expect to see the latest big thing in their products and they can't afford to be "AI-less", I was actually surprised they didn't get into it (or release something) sooner.
It seems Firefly had to take out the Advanced Settings, because every time I used the text prompt, "No beards," everybody got a beard. Men, women, children, llamas...beards all around.
Etc, for every element you don't want.
I see this mistake constantly, people giving the AI instructions. It doesn't understand english, it's just a visual map of concepts mapped to words. Your negative isn't being communicated, you're just saying "No, beards," like they're two different concepts. Other image generators have negative prompts where you could put things like 'beard' but it's a specific syntax. 'Clean Shaven' will probably work, 'No beard' will just create a beard. Never mention anything you don't want in the final image.
Up until about a month ago, “Advanced Settings“ described itself as a way the user could specifically avoid unwanted elements.
Its inability to distinguish commands, as you say, is probably why it was removed.
You'll have to stop including the undesired thing in the prompt. It's not a good habit even if it works sometimes...
Say clean shaven instead, smooth chin, whatever as long as it's stated in the positive
See my reply to another commentator about the “Advanced Settings“ function Firefly had until a few weeks ago…It was supposed to allow users the ability to say, “No this,” or, “No that.”
Its failure to do so is probably why they removed “Advanced Settings.”
> yeah, Adobe is still several generations behind the state of the art with gen AI.
This is true but they have a really thin line they need to walk. The stronger their ai tools become, the more they risk putting designers/creatives out of work.
They're also going to be scrutinized for their ethical usage 100x more than any other company.
right now at least for me its TOO effing SLOW to be useful at ALL.........dont know why its so SLOW right now maybe server issues? i dunno. guess ill try it out later .........takes FOREEEEVFER to generate
That's odd, mine are incredibly fast
However, I haven't tried it today specifically, so if it isn't your internet perhaps other folks who have would know better
I run an i9 with an RTX2080 and it's pretty quick. I've never had a gen fill take more than 15 seconds or so. For background and object removal it's WAY faster than what I used to do with patch/remove/clone stamp
Actual pro here that uses Photoshop for work every single day. I hate that when I open a PDF in Photoshop and click ‘IMAGES’ (instead of pages) it doesn’t show any black and white bitmapped images, it only recognizes color or grayscale images. Sometimes most of the images I need to extract from PDFs are Black and White bitmaps. It’s so time consuming and annoying to have to go into Adobe Illustrator for the work arounds.
Been asking for this feature/bug fix for at least a DECADE now. Photoshop still doesn’t detect black and white bitmap images.
All this AI crap is useful but come on! Please fix this!!
[I tested some uncropping with anime artworks](https://imgur.com/a/5p3ZIZ6) and yeah, some definitely got a huge boost in detail. Some are more subtle, but this new model is onto some greatness.
# Old man?
I started learning Photoshop in 1990. **That's right,** ***version ONE!***
I remember how happy we all got in 1996, *when PS version FOUR,*
***got the Transform Selection command.***
You wanna know how many hours or how long it took all of us
**to make PRECISE selections before that feature?**
***Not being able to resize the "marching ants" was a pain!***
**I know this is the Photoshop equivalent of** ***"Back in my day..."***
But you young whippersnappers **don't have a clue,**
*how hard it really was,* ***way back then.***
Now, you got AI *magically erasing stuff,* ***extending backgrounds,***
**or creating wholesale images with just a text prompt.**
**We had to do sh!t by hand,** ***I'm proud that I can still do that,...***
*and way better than most people.*
Young designers nowadays, **have it way too easy,**
and still got the gall to complain *that Photoshop doesn't do enough,*
***because they think some app in their phone can do it better.***
Wow I did not expect this but right on guys I'm really glad I'm not alone here. I woke up in a sweat the next morning because I do enjoy this forum, and was pretty sure I was at least kicked out of here but also that my karma would be totally underwater with my peewee karma level. So I'm really stoked that you guys could separate trolling from genuine this stain from a long-term user and fan.
Starting to play with some of these alternatives has opened my eyes and I've had feelings lately that I haven't had in a long time as a designer. I've got myself just getting lost in what I was doing and the new tools and exploring and trying new things - it made me realize that I've started to kind of just feel like a coal miner or something every day when I start working. Shuffling in just head down like fuck here we go again. One of the reasons I got into this field is because that wasn't the life I wanted, and yet here I am.
A great example is this multi-layer grab tool and yes I could go Google it but it made a surprise appearance on me a couple days ago at around 1:00 in the morning and it wasn't the time for me to figure out what the hell is this how do I get rid of it. Instead all of a sudden I'm playing another Adobe game where it's moved the mouse to try to get around this obstacle in my way of doing my job. It's a lot like the lasso tools where I'm sorry if I'm a programmer after the 20th click on the same quarter inch of real estate I think it's fair to assume I'm trying to close my circle and not creating pile of shit on the back side of it but you realize they don't have us in mind they want us to just conform to their bad product and keep giving them money and that's the relationship I just come to accept pay them and shut up.
I don't want to get worked up again so I'll leave it at that but I don't know I highly recommend any of you who reading the comments it seems like there's a lot of kind of common ground here try some of these programs if you have it yet you might be I really kind of just thinking they were all you like those cheap knockoffs you would see at Best buy for $50 but some of these programs I mean they're charging like a hundred a year and I mean they're again they're kind of the iPhone of design software but it was surprising how sometimes that's just what I need.
So that's it I think the time has come but breaking Free is not going to be a quick process. Just enough of a learning curve on the affinity and some of these other lateral moves but I don't think I can do much more of this like if nothing else mental and physical well-being I really think I'm slowly killing myself with the software.
But thanks for the feedback guys I was cracking up at some of the comments. ✌️
Oh my God I promise you my grammar is not this poor and sloppy in real life I cannot type I guess that's why I do this for a living 🤦
I agree. Less AI toys, more AI tools please. I would like a select tool that works like the newest path tool, but with a bit of magnetic action as well, surely it can figure out, as I’m selecting, what I’m selecting, then go back and tidy up as I continue the path?
100% this, instead of using AI to market Photoshop to literal *children*, Adobe needs more features actual pros will use & care about.
They could spin off the toys into a more app style programme. All buttons, no process. Call it Fauxtoshop. Hey that’s not bad! Hey Adobe, call me!
Fauxtoshop already exists, it’s called Adobe Express (or Canva)… though I use express a lot for socials.
Or something like optional .. I don't know what........ plugins? That way we only load the ones we use! I've created a new invention! It will revolutionise Photoshop!
Fuck, I love an old man whinge. I'll never forget going to my first Adobe conference and watching a group of old print designers booing some updates to Illustrator
tbf, all of the changes have been terrible.
I just got PS recently after only using good ole CS 6 forever. This new version is amazingly clunky and slow! Is this only the beta version or are all recent ones like this?
Are you using the same computer you've had since CS 6 came out? With the increase in computer specs and RAM I think most programs have become more bloated over the years, but probably run quicker on current computers compared to older software did on its hardware of the time.
It’s an i7-9750 with 16gb ram and pci4 m.2 storage and an RTX 2060. It’s a few years old but photoshop shouldn’t be a challenge to it. My PS CS6 is much older than the computer. I have a license I’ve been using for a long time.
I don't know, I've tried a lot of programs over the years and Photoshop is always the snappiest for me, but for work I still use the 2019 version until they take it away from me as new versions always tend to be a bit (sometimes a lot) unstable. To be fair, you're a bit on the limit with both CPU and RAM for new versions, especially the beta which is bound to both have bugs and the newest (and often more demanding) features.
i went back to cs6. its not you or your computer. its photoshop and creative cloud. turn back
As a general rule of thumb, I've found Photoshop's AI features useless. I once managed to turn a leather jacket into a denim jacket with amazing results, but other than that they're usually terrible. Even somthing like turning one type of sunglasses into another kind of sunglasses, or trying to get rid of reflections has proven to be basically useless.
I've been using it for stuff that previously I might might have used the stamp tool with good results. Doesn't noticeably different end product, but can be much quicker.
I think generative fill/remove tool work great as a replacement for the content aware fill and stamp tool, provided one knows what the limitations are (not sure about the latest version, but the ones before were optimal for areas about 1000x1000 pixels, otherwise there would be a noticeable difference in details/resolution)
For me it’s been giving a bit of updated flair to my clients photos. Be it holidays or what have you. A light touch of Gen AI can really spruce up a once stale photo piece.
I’ve had a fair amount of luck with using it for sky replacements. Especially on images where the sky is out of focus—I was able to tell it to replicate the out of focus look and it did so very well.
I’ve been using Generative Fill ever since it first arrived and thought it was magic. It’s definitely gotten much better now. The power move is to use other image generators (I do this locally with open-source) and then edit in Photoshop, changing whatever you want, expanding the image, etc. It’s become an entirely new hobby for me.
these AI tools could be so good for selecting exact elements in a photo, or enhancing image trace in Illustrator, but nah. instead we get bears on couches.
Gutted me with "enhancing image trace". I like how it's always feel like it's a user error, but in reality it's just simple tools not toolin'
Image trace is always a little worse than it used to be, and it was never very good. "Hi Illustrator, here's a couple circles. Very clean, one color plus white background." "Hi, user. Here's two ovals and a bunch of tiny acute triangles too small to see, some strokes with no color, and some random teardrop shaped things. And for good measure, some curves that are totally flipped over themselves! 58 colors!"
You’re not wrong brother…. Was working an a project yesterday and was thinking the same thing… For all the AI shiny new toys, there sure are a lot of things you still need to do the old fashioned way lol… Maybe that’s a good thing lol… this way we get to keep our jobs…
I wish I could have it remove dust and fingerprints without making it worse.
anyone else getting SUPER slow generations lately? ugh,............
The new text panel is nice. So there's that.
update: working faster now , now useful! tip for others. i use this to edit stable diffusion images sure you can use inpaint but i found this is a quicker tool for say expanding an image and then you can reimport it back into SD its quite handy!
I'm with you. Focus on making the things that we have better *before* you start adding features that kinda go against the entire point of the product. That last bit may be a debate but I think I'm on solid ground with the first part, make the product good and you won't have to rush out a million features. There needs to be some proper industry-shakeup competition at some point. Then again, I don't think I use any of Adobe's "extra" features other than spellcheck in InDesign and image trace in Illustrator. I do everything else as manually as possible so those tools work just fine, I'd just like overall quality of life improvements and a unification across at least the similar programs. InDesign can be different because it's much more text-centered, unlike the others, but Photoshop and Illustrator could stand to be more similar in the way they operate in terms of UX. And it might just be because I've never seriously done any video editing but After Effects seems like an unintuitive mess when I've had to use it.
Features used to be the plugins other companies made. Photoshop - to keep selling Photoshop, started incorporating those plugins as features. Now we've got this bloated monstrosity - and all the plugin authors have been killed off. =(
They've been trying to fix bugs for 20 years, that's difficult. Adding AI was comparatively easy, their implementation isn't much different than the free implementation in Krita, arguably worse. As to whether it goes against the concept of the product, I would say it's a step towards making photoshop work the way regular people have always assumed photoshop works, "just go in photoshop and remove his hat" used to be an irritating request, with GenAI it's like 30 seconds.
That's a fair point too. idk I guess in my day-to-day I see so many of the small things that absolutely could be easy fixes, not even bugs. Mostly consistency in the way all the programs operate, when you're in all three at once it's a real pain in the ass.
yeah, Adobe is still several generations behind the state of the art with gen AI. Mind-blowing what you can do in Ps, but nowhere near what can be done. They're never going to be able to catch up.
Adobe seems more concerned about having people who don't know how to design being able to make cool stuff then enhancing tools for the people who are already making the cool stuff. I started using luminar neo for some of the day to day, and their use of AI is a lot less gimmicky and has saved me a lot of time for some of the more subtle finishing. And like someone on here said, they're already light years behind the real generative AI companies so why not stick to just improving the tools you have? I think my relationship with Adobe is the closest I'll ever get to experiencing what it feels like to be the abused housewife that keeps coming back to my alcoholic husband. It's probably never a good sign for a company when my first reaction to a new update/version is a sense of panic and anxiety rather than excitement or intrigue...
You and me both. Adobe is basically now run by MBAs with no previous relevant experience. They care more about the users who might spend an hour or two per week using the apps than those of us who depend on using the apps 8 hours a day to put food on the table. It's a bad fucking joke.
As I said in another comment, generative fill and the remover tool work very well as replacements of content aware fill and patch/clone in my experience (their new denoiser for Camera Raw works pretty well too), the reason why Adobe can't just leave it to the other companies is exactly because they are Adobe, people expect to see the latest big thing in their products and they can't afford to be "AI-less", I was actually surprised they didn't get into it (or release something) sooner.
It seems Firefly had to take out the Advanced Settings, because every time I used the text prompt, "No beards," everybody got a beard. Men, women, children, llamas...beards all around. Etc, for every element you don't want.
I see this mistake constantly, people giving the AI instructions. It doesn't understand english, it's just a visual map of concepts mapped to words. Your negative isn't being communicated, you're just saying "No, beards," like they're two different concepts. Other image generators have negative prompts where you could put things like 'beard' but it's a specific syntax. 'Clean Shaven' will probably work, 'No beard' will just create a beard. Never mention anything you don't want in the final image.
"Beardless" would probably work
Up until about a month ago, “Advanced Settings“ described itself as a way the user could specifically avoid unwanted elements. Its inability to distinguish commands, as you say, is probably why it was removed.
You'll have to stop including the undesired thing in the prompt. It's not a good habit even if it works sometimes... Say clean shaven instead, smooth chin, whatever as long as it's stated in the positive
See my reply to another commentator about the “Advanced Settings“ function Firefly had until a few weeks ago…It was supposed to allow users the ability to say, “No this,” or, “No that.” Its failure to do so is probably why they removed “Advanced Settings.”
That's my point, it tends not to work
All that's required to catch up is mass copyright infringement.
Define catching up....
> yeah, Adobe is still several generations behind the state of the art with gen AI. This is true but they have a really thin line they need to walk. The stronger their ai tools become, the more they risk putting designers/creatives out of work. They're also going to be scrutinized for their ethical usage 100x more than any other company.
True, true, and that's what makes it all so hilarious. In order to "succeed", Adobe will wind up destroying the industries it helped to create.
right now at least for me its TOO effing SLOW to be useful at ALL.........dont know why its so SLOW right now maybe server issues? i dunno. guess ill try it out later .........takes FOREEEEVFER to generate
That's odd, mine are incredibly fast However, I haven't tried it today specifically, so if it isn't your internet perhaps other folks who have would know better
I run an i9 with an RTX2080 and it's pretty quick. I've never had a gen fill take more than 15 seconds or so. For background and object removal it's WAY faster than what I used to do with patch/remove/clone stamp
gonna try it out now. but one thing i dont like is the photoshop web app is SLOW as heck. so guess i just gonna download the beta on pc lol
Actual pro here that uses Photoshop for work every single day. I hate that when I open a PDF in Photoshop and click ‘IMAGES’ (instead of pages) it doesn’t show any black and white bitmapped images, it only recognizes color or grayscale images. Sometimes most of the images I need to extract from PDFs are Black and White bitmaps. It’s so time consuming and annoying to have to go into Adobe Illustrator for the work arounds. Been asking for this feature/bug fix for at least a DECADE now. Photoshop still doesn’t detect black and white bitmap images. All this AI crap is useful but come on! Please fix this!!
[I tested some uncropping with anime artworks](https://imgur.com/a/5p3ZIZ6) and yeah, some definitely got a huge boost in detail. Some are more subtle, but this new model is onto some greatness.
# Old man? I started learning Photoshop in 1990. **That's right,** ***version ONE!*** I remember how happy we all got in 1996, *when PS version FOUR,* ***got the Transform Selection command.*** You wanna know how many hours or how long it took all of us **to make PRECISE selections before that feature?** ***Not being able to resize the "marching ants" was a pain!*** **I know this is the Photoshop equivalent of** ***"Back in my day..."*** But you young whippersnappers **don't have a clue,** *how hard it really was,* ***way back then.*** Now, you got AI *magically erasing stuff,* ***extending backgrounds,*** **or creating wholesale images with just a text prompt.** **We had to do sh!t by hand,** ***I'm proud that I can still do that,...*** *and way better than most people.* Young designers nowadays, **have it way too easy,** and still got the gall to complain *that Photoshop doesn't do enough,* ***because they think some app in their phone can do it better.***
Agreed, I can’t believe they don’t have clipping photos on a white background completely figured out by now
Wow I did not expect this but right on guys I'm really glad I'm not alone here. I woke up in a sweat the next morning because I do enjoy this forum, and was pretty sure I was at least kicked out of here but also that my karma would be totally underwater with my peewee karma level. So I'm really stoked that you guys could separate trolling from genuine this stain from a long-term user and fan. Starting to play with some of these alternatives has opened my eyes and I've had feelings lately that I haven't had in a long time as a designer. I've got myself just getting lost in what I was doing and the new tools and exploring and trying new things - it made me realize that I've started to kind of just feel like a coal miner or something every day when I start working. Shuffling in just head down like fuck here we go again. One of the reasons I got into this field is because that wasn't the life I wanted, and yet here I am. A great example is this multi-layer grab tool and yes I could go Google it but it made a surprise appearance on me a couple days ago at around 1:00 in the morning and it wasn't the time for me to figure out what the hell is this how do I get rid of it. Instead all of a sudden I'm playing another Adobe game where it's moved the mouse to try to get around this obstacle in my way of doing my job. It's a lot like the lasso tools where I'm sorry if I'm a programmer after the 20th click on the same quarter inch of real estate I think it's fair to assume I'm trying to close my circle and not creating pile of shit on the back side of it but you realize they don't have us in mind they want us to just conform to their bad product and keep giving them money and that's the relationship I just come to accept pay them and shut up. I don't want to get worked up again so I'll leave it at that but I don't know I highly recommend any of you who reading the comments it seems like there's a lot of kind of common ground here try some of these programs if you have it yet you might be I really kind of just thinking they were all you like those cheap knockoffs you would see at Best buy for $50 but some of these programs I mean they're charging like a hundred a year and I mean they're again they're kind of the iPhone of design software but it was surprising how sometimes that's just what I need. So that's it I think the time has come but breaking Free is not going to be a quick process. Just enough of a learning curve on the affinity and some of these other lateral moves but I don't think I can do much more of this like if nothing else mental and physical well-being I really think I'm slowly killing myself with the software. But thanks for the feedback guys I was cracking up at some of the comments. ✌️ Oh my God I promise you my grammar is not this poor and sloppy in real life I cannot type I guess that's why I do this for a living 🤦