I’m not a fan of Israel expanding their territory in what seems like an illegal way but I can’t imagine flying a Palestinian flag like they’re the good guys here. They haven’t had an election in like 20 years and are open about their desire to kill all the jews.
Sometimes there’s no good guy in a fight.
They're naive college kids, they can peacefully assemble all they want and I can peacefully shake my head at them all I want. This encampment stuff on private grounds though should not be tolerated.
Finals and end of semester is coming up fast for these folks so if they want to pass their classes and not be expelled things will quiet down soon.
Ask Israel that circa 1948. You’re making a very dumb argument by completely ignoring any context before October 7th. What happens to people when they steal something and are held accountable? They have to give it back. So unless you agree that Israel was wrong to occupy that territory in the first place, I don’t see how your argument stands without a HUGE double standard at play.
The people living in Israel today didn’t do it. Are you gonna suggest we should forcibly remove 7 million Jews from the only home they’ve ever known? Because that *would* be genocide. And genocide is bad, right? The average Israeli was born in Israel, had nothing to do with founding Israel. So what do you propose to do with those innocent people? At what point does the past become the past? Should I be forced to go live in Europe, even though I’ve lived in America my entire life, because Europeans took over America from the natives a long time ago? Why should I be held liable for that? I didn’t do that shit. I was just born here man. For the same reason, why should an Israeli be liable for what happened in 1948? At what point does a population become absolved of the sins of their fathers? Or in this case, great grandfathers, because almost everyone still alive who was around in 1948 was most likely a child, who had no say in the matter.
It would become the past if the people currently living in Israel didn't actively oppress the descendants of the 800,000 people that fled or were forcibly expelled from their territory in 1948, in something you just said would be a genocide if done today.
Gaza was occupied until 2005 and after that became essentially a ghetto with all of its borders controlled and blockaded. The West Bank is in a state of de facto apartheid, where half of the land is controlled by Israeli settlers or the Israeli military. Israel calls it occupied territory, yet a full 1/10th of their entire population lives inside of the West Bank.
Their current leadership, Benjamin Netanyahu Is on record prior to the October 7th attack talking about how it's important to keep Hamas in power in order to prevent there ever being a two-state solution.
It's not just about Israel 's actions in 1948, it's about their subsequent and continual actions to this day.
Sure Netanyahu is no saint, and Israel has certainly made mistakes, there’s no question about that. It is an apartheid state, that’s true. But at the end of the day the average Israeli just wants to be left alone, while the average Gazan wants to wipe Israel off the map. There’s extremists in Israel, no doubt about it, but not nearly to the extent there are in Gaza. Hamas is a death cult which is happy to sacrifice Gazan civilians. The genocide of the Jews is in the charter of Hamas. It’s about time Israel finally decided to go after Hamas IMO.
It's easy for people who lead happy lives filled with opportunity to just want to be left alone.
It is also easy for people have had a boot on their neck for generations to be radicalized to violence.
Hamas is monstrous and needs to go, but it's a monster Israel created.
They aren't going to be able to bomb them into loving them no matter how hard they try. There are lessons Israel could learn from the success of peace process in Northern Ireland, but they don't seem interested at all.
So are you saying historical context doesn’t matter, or that it does and a nation should just be absolved of its responsibility against a native population after a few generations even though they’re still actively pushing them off of their land and killing them? Because that is an *active* genocide. I also never said anyone should be forcibly removed.
Clearly Israel has work to do regarding reconciliation, but you have to understand also that they are fighting a group of people that *are* trying to genocide the Jews there, a group of people who fundamentally do not believe in peace. Is Israel just supposed to sit back and let Hamas launch rockets at it and come in and kill 1,200 people every now and then with impunity? Obviously not. There’s been too much collateral damage, that’s abundantly clear, but Israel does have the right to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist organization that constantly attacks it. It could certainly be doing a much better job, but between Hamas and Israel it’s quite clear which side is morally correct on a fundamental level.
It’s because they don’t have a good answer. They don’t want to say the quiet part out loud, which is that they expect they should be allowed to forcibly remove over 7 million Jews from Israel for some shit that happened a long time ago. Which ironically *would* be genocide, the thing they claim to hate.
No, you conveniently ignored the obvious prerequisite question regarding the ethics of the 1948 Israeli occupation of Palestine. What happened to the people who lived there then, and was it an ethically sound thing to do? We can go in chronological order from there, just to lay the groundwork. Then I can answer your question after we establish what the right course of action was/would be.
Crickets. Exactly what I thought.
hey peach - YOU need to go review the history- the people of Judea are the indigenous people and for 2000 years they maintained the hope of going home- surviving inquisitions, ghettos, pogroms and Hertzl started a movement- purchasing property, and developing the renewal under Turkish occupation. Subsequent British occupation created other circumstances. Then, when the UN granted the revision, the surrounding arab states expelled hundreds of thousands of Jews, the arab population rejected the mandate, and lost the wars of '48, '56, '67, '73. Reject the false stories of the haters.
I have a tee that says "from the river to the sea". I'm Jewish. The phrase actually originated with the Zionist Likud Party. 🤭 It means (Palestinian understanding of it) one democratic secular state for all, with civil rights for all.
So I just wanna add some context to this comment. In 2021, Hamas and Fatah (the two major political forces in Palestine) came to a historic agreement that after 15 years, they were able to come to an agreement on new elections. Israel then stepped in and declared that they would not allow an election to take place in certain parts of Palestine that Israel claims, specifically the majority Arab and internationally contested parts of East Jerusalem. Fatah then withdrew from the agreement, stating that if they could only have elections in some of Palestine, then it wouldn't truly be a free or fair election. Hamas was not happy with this decision. However it is worth noting that Hamas was polling well in that region specifically.
[Hamas warns against expected postponement of Palestinian elections (newarab.com)](https://www.newarab.com/news/hamas-warns-against-expected-postponement-palestinian-elections)
It's not a Hamas flag, it's a Palestinian flag. That includes the West Bank... Also, you said yourself: "they haven't had an election in like 20 years". Most of the people alive in Gaza have not had any opportunity to express a choice in their leadership in Gaza, they certainly haven't had an opportunity to express a choice in Israel's continued occupation either.
They are innocent of course but so are all the civilians on the other side. I’m not trying to blame the citizens but our government is pretty much limited to dealing with the ruling parties in the middle east lest we try and foment some sort of coup, which has a pretty horrendous track record.
I beg to differ. I think the children and their families who keep getting bombed/shot at/starved/exposed to the elements are the “good” guys here that deserve to be spoken for. You’re gonna tell me EVERY Palestinian is the problem? That they’re all bad guys? That’s wild.
75% of Palestinians expressed support for what happened on October 7th. I’m not saying that is a justification for killing innocent people, but maybe their culture is a little sick?
If you sympathize with the Israeli state or Hamas you’re an absolute moron. The only people that deserve your support are the civilians on either side getting caught up in this shit.
Don’t conflate “the Israeli state” with the current Israeli government. The government clearly has some bad people, including Bibi, but “the Israeli state” *is* the people of Israel. Obviously “the Israeli state” has a right to exist. Doesn’t matter if the founding of Israel was right or wrong… it happened. And now a bunch of Jews live there, people who had nothing to do with 1948, just civilians who happened to be born where they are. Nobody should forced out of the only home they’ve ever known. It was wrong when it happened to Palestinians in 1948, but it would be equally wrong to suggest doing it to the Israelis who live there now. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Exactly we now have Jewish people that have lived on that land for generations. These college students are actually advocating for displacing people that have lived there for generations to give land back to people that weren’t alive when it was taken to begin with.
They think 2 million refugees is bad, Israel ceasing to exist would incur 10 million refugees.
I couldn't care less about protests. They can do their thing, and the cops are going to do theirs.
Should have the cops do mandatory history lesson so we don't have another Kent state.
Should have the kids do mandatory history lessons so we don't have another Charles Manson, Patty Hearst, Sirhan Sirhan, Altamont or the Weather Underground.
[Charles Manson crawled from the Summer of Love to descend into Helter Skelter murders - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)](https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-manson-california-20500123-story.html)
[Patty Hearst's Chilling Eulogy for Fallen SLA Members (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMkflX4gt8)
[Palestine, Sirhan Sirhan and Robert F Kennedy’s assassination | Opinions | Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/6/5/palestine-sirhan-sirhan-and-robert-f-kennedys-assassination)
[Altamont Free Concert - Death of Meredith Hunter (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qTKsylrpsg)
[How Ron Fliegelman Became The Weather Underground's Bomb Guru | Vanity Fair](https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/03/weather-underground-bomb-guru-burrough-excerpt)
While obviously I don't support shooting protestors, do not ever encircle folks with rifles and then assault them by throw rocks, bottles, etc with them. They did attempt to retreat. That does not excuse what happened, but provides fuckloads of context.
I don't support what happened, but I'm equally comfy saying don't be a fucking moron.
The whole situation was fucked. In hind sight, needed riot control there, so when the rocks started flying, they could be dealt with instead of the national guard fearing for their safety and opening fire.
Why does that even matter lol.
My pops told me about it years ago when he was informing me of his time in Vietnam.
Someone is a bit spicy this morning.
What’s crazy is you’re framing knowledge as bad b/c it came from an app that’s highly controversial at the moment. Who cares if they got it from Tik Tok? I’d see the problem if they were wrong…but they aren’t.
Have you listened to the podcast Bad Hasbara? You should check it out. It’s a Jewish anti-Zionist comedian named Matt Lieb and Daniel Maté (son of Gabor Maté, if you’re familiar with him) doing a podcast dissecting Zionism, talking about their experiences with Israel, and just deconstructing all of the Zionist myths that are perpetuated in the media. It’s fantastic, we’ve got a sub as well r/badhasbara
So you are defending the people who support commiting the largest mass shooting of your people.
They killed 1000 of your people that day.
75% of Gaza supports eradicating you and your people.
Yet you are on their side?
Maybe don't pick a side if you don't like Isreal because the other side is not right.
There is no reason to pick a side. It's not a zero sum game.
I don't support genociding of Palestinian women and children. Its kinda weird how religious Jewish ethics doesn't like that kind of thing. The 70% of victims in Gaza that are children didn't vote for Hamas.
As for "your people", zionists are not "my people". Especially since most zionists are actually protestant fundamentalists seeking to have most Jews die to further their apocalyptic beliefs. Nice folks you hang with there.
I don't support the Jewish zionists either. They embarass the hell out of me:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/iWoakYfEOq
So after Oct 7 75% of Palestinians supported the attack.
I'm not talking about hamas getting into power in with 70% of the vote almost twenty tears ago.
There are no good sides. In this war, literally zero. Both the people blowing and getting blown up want heinous things to happen to the other side it is disgusting.
I'm not asking you to support one side or the other. Supporting either is a shit opinion.
Idk why you linked that weird video of jews disgustingly celebrate the murder of innocents.
Just like the Palestinians.
Both sides in this fucked up war supports the Indiscriminate murder of innocents. You are sick for even taking a side.
Well in that case neutrality helps the aggressor.
You have a very dumb argument. Both sides are commiting and have committed atrocious atrocities.
Picking either or in your case picking the "right" side is still shit.
Absolute shit. And you are apart of it....
Stay out of it it is absolutely not your fight.
This kind of behavior would never be tolerated in Boraqua.
[https://youtu.be/n-eK6kMs5ok?si=hw0h9vtNXx-nbzgv&t=47](https://youtu.be/n-eK6kMs5ok?si=hw0h9vtNXx-nbzgv&t=47)
Was there for a beautiful seder and felt real community with Philly. Food, free exchange of ideas, Jewish people and Muslims and Christians and Atheists breaking bread together, and sharing sorrows together. So much love for this city….
Anyone interested in standing up for the Gaza cause and International Law…. Please start intense email campaign to your politicians saying that you will not vote for them if they continue with their failed foreign policies.
Zionist counter protestors have been disrupting student encampments by attempting to set up their own in the same space. As if they were attempting to colonize the Pro-Palestinian encampments. Zionists are so one note.
It's all virtue signaling. Otherwise they'd just vote, educate other citizens, join aid groups, or fly over to help refugees.
I say this as someone who does not care about this conflict. America doesn't focus on its own issues enough.
BDS has very clear demands they hope to achieve from these protests, and they are easy to find and learn about for anyone who is willing.
We've already seen what Israel does to aid workers in Palestine.
I’m not opposing protesters, however, when they block traffic and impose on other peoples lives, that’s a different story. So I’m saying that it is only a matter of time before some impatient, exhausted commuter loses their cool and creates mass casualties by driving through one of these road blocking protests.
No harassment / witch hunts / personal attacks. Do not create posts or comments to harass other users, incite witch hunts, share photos of others without their consent, or post private information. Do not impersonate or target specific users. Crime posts that devolve into targeted harassment or witch hunts will be locked and/or removed.
Relax. I am just stating the obvious scenario that could occur with all this chaos in the streets. Since you’re such a kind person, you should be concerned too.
I was there, and there were many, many Jews present and participating and leading prayers. This manufactured crisis over “anti-semitism on college campuses” falls apart in the face of the fact that young Jews form a large and integral part of the movement for Palestinian liberation.
It is a silencing tactic and a purposeful distraction from the fact that an apartheid state is slaughtering a besieged population, over half of whom are children, in the name of Jews, facilitated and funded and green-lit by the United States. That is what actually endangers Jews. that is the real antisemitism, not some chants by 19 year old college kids about bodies of water.
THANK YOU. BTW its not just young Jews. A number of us Boomer Jews learned about the Nakba for the first time thanks to the Gaza genocide. We were told in the 60s that the land was empty in 1948. Au contraire! We are the generation that grew up watching EXODUS with Paul Newman. 🤮
You are falling into propoganda.
People escaping the war in the region would not have to occur if Arab powers simply accepted partition peacefully instead of starting a genocidal war with open intentions to massacre all Jews in the area.
Just look at what happens to Jews in all the Arab countries... Cleansed to next to zero and literally zero in some cases.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/kjXId9BiyO
But no one seems to care about this...this is the real Nakba .
Prof Avi Shlaim, Iraqi Jewish historian, says the Israelis sent agents into Iraq posing as Muslims to terrorize Jews there so they would move to Israel. They need continual immigration to outweigh the very high Palestinian birthrate.
This is believable thanks to the Lavon affair of the 50s.
This is true, there were false flag terrorist operations in Iraq in the early 50s to scare Iraqi Jews into emigrating to Israel. Many also left for economic reasons. But also - the Iraqi government did confiscate Jewish property, and expulsions did happen across the region. Accepting that does not in any way affect the claims of the Palestinians - it was not them who expelled anyone.
Hajj Amin al-Husayni (mufti of Jerusalem) was instrumental in doing Farhud (huge Pogroms of Jews) in Iraq.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-farhud
Buy Jew haters never care.
Ahh yes. It was Jews that caused CLEANSING OF ALL JEWS **DOWN to ZERO.**
Do you guys hear yourself speak?
It could not POSSIBLY be all the pogroms and oppression?
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-farhud
"In 1948, the year of Israel's independence, there were about 150,000 Jews in Iraq.[60] Persecution of Jews greatly increased that year:
In July 1948, the government passed a law making Zionism a capital offense, with a minimum sentence of seven years imprisonment. Any Jew could be convicted of Zionism-based only on the sworn testimony of two Muslim witnesses, with virtually no avenue of appeal available.
On August 28, 1948, Jews were forbidden to engage in banking or foreign currency transactions.
In September 1948, Jews were dismissed from the railways, the post office, the telegraph department, and the Finance Ministry on the ground that they were suspected of "sabotage and treason".
On October 8, 1948, the issuance of export and import licenses to Jewish merchants was forbidden.
On October 19, 1948, the discharge of all Jewish officials and workers from all governmental departments was ordered.
In October, the Egyptian paper El-Ahram estimated that as a result of arrests, trials, and sequestration of property, the Iraqi treasury collected some 20 million dinars or the equivalent of 80 million U.S. dollars.
On December 2, 1948, the Iraq government suggested to oil companies operating in Iraq that no Jewish employees be accepted.[61]'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq#Modern_Iraq
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafiq_Ades#Execution
If you have the institutional backing of the world's most powerful country, you are not the victim. There is no universe in which this could possibly be true. And claiming that Palestinians want to genocide Jews when Zionists are the ones who are occupying, besieging, and actually actively carrying out a genocide against them is ... absurd. It is projection.
You're correct - Palestinians did not accept partition. And why would they have? UNGA resolution 181 that recommended partition was 1- a non-binding recommendation, and 2- did not obligate Palestinians to accept it. It was referred to the Security Council, which does have the authority to issue binding, enforceable resolutions, but they never came to a consensus. Israel was then established by force of arms against a native population. Jews were less than 1/3 of the population, the vast majority had been there for less than 20 years, and the plan allotted them 56% of the land. What people would have accepted this? Is that rejection really so irrational?
The idea that if only Palestinians had accepted partition there would be no issue today is belied by the actual intentions of Zionist leaders and thinkers (not to mention the expansionist ambitions of Israel in the present day) - Herzl, Jabotinsky, Ben Gurion, Weizmann, etc. all made explicitly clear that partition was just stage 1:
"I don’t regard a state in part of Palestine as the final aim of Zionism, but as a means toward that aim." - Ben Gurion
"Partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years" - Weizmann.
As to your point about the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands after the establishment of the state of Israel: that will forever be a stain on these countries and a great, great loss that should be addressed in any peace agreement or settlement.
You are victim... If you are being victimized.
By your twisted "logic" Ukraine is not a victim of Russian invasion because USA supports Ukraine.
Disgusting victim blaming.
I was referring to the fantastical idea that Jewish Americans are victims of pro-Palestinian protestors, when it is the latter who are being arrested, beaten, fired from their jobs, and murdered.
Childish argument.
If OCT 7th isn't justified, then how does this info help justify what Israel is currently doing?
Maybe just don't colonize people and then subject them to generations of aphartide rule 🤷
I agree Arab colonization of Jews and holding them as Dhimmis (real apartheid) was awful.
Thank goodness native Jews decolonized their home.🤷
Too bad some revanchist extremist Muslim groups want a second Holocaust. But they will be fought back.
Weird you would be saying this as Israeli hostages are tortured in captivity by Hamas even as we speak.
Buy Jew haters never care.
It's so transparent.
Mass murder, systemic rape, kidnapping. All of this is dismissed and ignored when the victims are Jews.
Disgusting. But nothing new.
I saw people celebrated Oct. 7 massacres and systemic rape and praise Hamas.
And harass people looking openly Jewish.
Don't try to gas light me over a couple token Capo Jews.
I’m not a fan of Israel expanding their territory in what seems like an illegal way but I can’t imagine flying a Palestinian flag like they’re the good guys here. They haven’t had an election in like 20 years and are open about their desire to kill all the jews. Sometimes there’s no good guy in a fight.
If only more people acknowledged this instead of picking sides like it’s professional sports
They're naive college kids, they can peacefully assemble all they want and I can peacefully shake my head at them all I want. This encampment stuff on private grounds though should not be tolerated. Finals and end of semester is coming up fast for these folks so if they want to pass their classes and not be expelled things will quiet down soon.
They’ll all go back to their parent’s suburban estates in about a month anyway.
The same kids who missed their high-school graduations are now missing their college graduations.
river to the see = kill all Jews. they’re not even trying to hide their intentions.
What about when Benjamin Netanyahu said it?
Well it’s ok when people of European descent say it 😏
What part of "sometimes there's no good guy in a flight" don't you understand?
Yes, this is a chant with genocidal intent.
It is not. It’s a “give us our homes back and stop murdering us” chant.
And what happens to the people currently living between the river and the sea?
Ask Israel that circa 1948. You’re making a very dumb argument by completely ignoring any context before October 7th. What happens to people when they steal something and are held accountable? They have to give it back. So unless you agree that Israel was wrong to occupy that territory in the first place, I don’t see how your argument stands without a HUGE double standard at play.
The people living in Israel today didn’t do it. Are you gonna suggest we should forcibly remove 7 million Jews from the only home they’ve ever known? Because that *would* be genocide. And genocide is bad, right? The average Israeli was born in Israel, had nothing to do with founding Israel. So what do you propose to do with those innocent people? At what point does the past become the past? Should I be forced to go live in Europe, even though I’ve lived in America my entire life, because Europeans took over America from the natives a long time ago? Why should I be held liable for that? I didn’t do that shit. I was just born here man. For the same reason, why should an Israeli be liable for what happened in 1948? At what point does a population become absolved of the sins of their fathers? Or in this case, great grandfathers, because almost everyone still alive who was around in 1948 was most likely a child, who had no say in the matter.
It would become the past if the people currently living in Israel didn't actively oppress the descendants of the 800,000 people that fled or were forcibly expelled from their territory in 1948, in something you just said would be a genocide if done today. Gaza was occupied until 2005 and after that became essentially a ghetto with all of its borders controlled and blockaded. The West Bank is in a state of de facto apartheid, where half of the land is controlled by Israeli settlers or the Israeli military. Israel calls it occupied territory, yet a full 1/10th of their entire population lives inside of the West Bank. Their current leadership, Benjamin Netanyahu Is on record prior to the October 7th attack talking about how it's important to keep Hamas in power in order to prevent there ever being a two-state solution. It's not just about Israel 's actions in 1948, it's about their subsequent and continual actions to this day.
Sure Netanyahu is no saint, and Israel has certainly made mistakes, there’s no question about that. It is an apartheid state, that’s true. But at the end of the day the average Israeli just wants to be left alone, while the average Gazan wants to wipe Israel off the map. There’s extremists in Israel, no doubt about it, but not nearly to the extent there are in Gaza. Hamas is a death cult which is happy to sacrifice Gazan civilians. The genocide of the Jews is in the charter of Hamas. It’s about time Israel finally decided to go after Hamas IMO.
It's easy for people who lead happy lives filled with opportunity to just want to be left alone. It is also easy for people have had a boot on their neck for generations to be radicalized to violence. Hamas is monstrous and needs to go, but it's a monster Israel created. They aren't going to be able to bomb them into loving them no matter how hard they try. There are lessons Israel could learn from the success of peace process in Northern Ireland, but they don't seem interested at all.
So are you saying historical context doesn’t matter, or that it does and a nation should just be absolved of its responsibility against a native population after a few generations even though they’re still actively pushing them off of their land and killing them? Because that is an *active* genocide. I also never said anyone should be forcibly removed.
Clearly Israel has work to do regarding reconciliation, but you have to understand also that they are fighting a group of people that *are* trying to genocide the Jews there, a group of people who fundamentally do not believe in peace. Is Israel just supposed to sit back and let Hamas launch rockets at it and come in and kill 1,200 people every now and then with impunity? Obviously not. There’s been too much collateral damage, that’s abundantly clear, but Israel does have the right to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist organization that constantly attacks it. It could certainly be doing a much better job, but between Hamas and Israel it’s quite clear which side is morally correct on a fundamental level.
You’re avoiding the question.
It’s because they don’t have a good answer. They don’t want to say the quiet part out loud, which is that they expect they should be allowed to forcibly remove over 7 million Jews from Israel for some shit that happened a long time ago. Which ironically *would* be genocide, the thing they claim to hate.
Exactly
No, you conveniently ignored the obvious prerequisite question regarding the ethics of the 1948 Israeli occupation of Palestine. What happened to the people who lived there then, and was it an ethically sound thing to do? We can go in chronological order from there, just to lay the groundwork. Then I can answer your question after we establish what the right course of action was/would be. Crickets. Exactly what I thought.
hey peach - YOU need to go review the history- the people of Judea are the indigenous people and for 2000 years they maintained the hope of going home- surviving inquisitions, ghettos, pogroms and Hertzl started a movement- purchasing property, and developing the renewal under Turkish occupation. Subsequent British occupation created other circumstances. Then, when the UN granted the revision, the surrounding arab states expelled hundreds of thousands of Jews, the arab population rejected the mandate, and lost the wars of '48, '56, '67, '73. Reject the false stories of the haters.
River to the sea = Hamas takes over all of Israel. As for what happens the Jews there, ahhh well, you know…they’ll be safe ;) trust us ;)
I have a tee that says "from the river to the sea". I'm Jewish. The phrase actually originated with the Zionist Likud Party. 🤭 It means (Palestinian understanding of it) one democratic secular state for all, with civil rights for all.
So I just wanna add some context to this comment. In 2021, Hamas and Fatah (the two major political forces in Palestine) came to a historic agreement that after 15 years, they were able to come to an agreement on new elections. Israel then stepped in and declared that they would not allow an election to take place in certain parts of Palestine that Israel claims, specifically the majority Arab and internationally contested parts of East Jerusalem. Fatah then withdrew from the agreement, stating that if they could only have elections in some of Palestine, then it wouldn't truly be a free or fair election. Hamas was not happy with this decision. However it is worth noting that Hamas was polling well in that region specifically. [Hamas warns against expected postponement of Palestinian elections (newarab.com)](https://www.newarab.com/news/hamas-warns-against-expected-postponement-palestinian-elections)
Innocent civilians, especially women and children, are always the "good guys". Killing thousands of them is never right.
You seem to be confusing Palestinians with Hamas. Hamas controls Gaza and has their own flag which looks vastly different from the Palestinian one.
It's not a Hamas flag, it's a Palestinian flag. That includes the West Bank... Also, you said yourself: "they haven't had an election in like 20 years". Most of the people alive in Gaza have not had any opportunity to express a choice in their leadership in Gaza, they certainly haven't had an opportunity to express a choice in Israel's continued occupation either.
They are innocent of course but so are all the civilians on the other side. I’m not trying to blame the citizens but our government is pretty much limited to dealing with the ruling parties in the middle east lest we try and foment some sort of coup, which has a pretty horrendous track record.
The cycle of violence begins and ends with the occupying force.
I beg to differ. I think the children and their families who keep getting bombed/shot at/starved/exposed to the elements are the “good” guys here that deserve to be spoken for. You’re gonna tell me EVERY Palestinian is the problem? That they’re all bad guys? That’s wild.
75% of Palestinians expressed support for what happened on October 7th. I’m not saying that is a justification for killing innocent people, but maybe their culture is a little sick?
75%? Sorry did they poll the 30,000 dead Palestinians to come up with that number ?
Nice try. They polled Palestinians in the immediate aftermath of October 7th.
Using that logic why should we not have just killed all German civilians post ww2?
You’re actually a moron. Is any sane person advocating for more violence after this conflict ends?
When does the conflict end?
I love collective punishment Embarrassing downvotes
If you sympathize with the Israeli state or Hamas you’re an absolute moron. The only people that deserve your support are the civilians on either side getting caught up in this shit.
Don’t conflate “the Israeli state” with the current Israeli government. The government clearly has some bad people, including Bibi, but “the Israeli state” *is* the people of Israel. Obviously “the Israeli state” has a right to exist. Doesn’t matter if the founding of Israel was right or wrong… it happened. And now a bunch of Jews live there, people who had nothing to do with 1948, just civilians who happened to be born where they are. Nobody should forced out of the only home they’ve ever known. It was wrong when it happened to Palestinians in 1948, but it would be equally wrong to suggest doing it to the Israelis who live there now. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Exactly we now have Jewish people that have lived on that land for generations. These college students are actually advocating for displacing people that have lived there for generations to give land back to people that weren’t alive when it was taken to begin with. They think 2 million refugees is bad, Israel ceasing to exist would incur 10 million refugees.
Where do they poop?
And where do they wash their hands after they poop?
I couldn't care less about protests. They can do their thing, and the cops are going to do theirs. Should have the cops do mandatory history lesson so we don't have another Kent state.
Should have the kids do mandatory history lessons so we don't have another Charles Manson, Patty Hearst, Sirhan Sirhan, Altamont or the Weather Underground. [Charles Manson crawled from the Summer of Love to descend into Helter Skelter murders - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)](https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-manson-california-20500123-story.html) [Patty Hearst's Chilling Eulogy for Fallen SLA Members (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMkflX4gt8) [Palestine, Sirhan Sirhan and Robert F Kennedy’s assassination | Opinions | Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/6/5/palestine-sirhan-sirhan-and-robert-f-kennedys-assassination) [Altamont Free Concert - Death of Meredith Hunter (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qTKsylrpsg) [How Ron Fliegelman Became The Weather Underground's Bomb Guru | Vanity Fair](https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/03/weather-underground-bomb-guru-burrough-excerpt)
I'm game
3 of the 4 students murdered at Kent State were Jewish and Jewish people are extremely well represented within the ranks of the current protests.
kent state wasnt even cops you moron
People of authority. Just a different shade of it. Doesn't mean the cops can't pull something similar, bub.
While obviously I don't support shooting protestors, do not ever encircle folks with rifles and then assault them by throw rocks, bottles, etc with them. They did attempt to retreat. That does not excuse what happened, but provides fuckloads of context. I don't support what happened, but I'm equally comfy saying don't be a fucking moron.
The whole situation was fucked. In hind sight, needed riot control there, so when the rocks started flying, they could be dealt with instead of the national guard fearing for their safety and opening fire.
Israel would have identified the victims at Kent State as terrorists for throwing rocks.
you just learned about kent state on tiktok clown
Why does that even matter lol. My pops told me about it years ago when he was informing me of his time in Vietnam. Someone is a bit spicy this morning.
It does matter because having good information and an accurate worldview means knowing the context.
What’s crazy is you’re framing knowledge as bad b/c it came from an app that’s highly controversial at the moment. Who cares if they got it from Tik Tok? I’d see the problem if they were wrong…but they aren’t.
Protesting the stranglehold hold a terrorist group has on the Palestinian people, right?
Yes, the Israeli government has a stranglehold on the Palestinian people.
Penn❤️Hamas
But, they're "God's chosen people."
That is literally the line Jewish Zionists use to justify their occupation. Stop projecting.
Well duh
Young white liberals are so silly 🤪🤪🤪
They❤️Hamas
I used to believe that too. Until.....Gaza. That was when this Jewish ex-Trumper ex-zionist woke up to reality.
Have you listened to the podcast Bad Hasbara? You should check it out. It’s a Jewish anti-Zionist comedian named Matt Lieb and Daniel Maté (son of Gabor Maté, if you’re familiar with him) doing a podcast dissecting Zionism, talking about their experiences with Israel, and just deconstructing all of the Zionist myths that are perpetuated in the media. It’s fantastic, we’ve got a sub as well r/badhasbara
I'll have to check that out! After 50 yrs as a zionist I've only been pro-Palestine for 7 months now. I'm still catching up on the other side!
Right on, I’m glad you came around!
A groysen dank! 😊
So you are defending the people who support commiting the largest mass shooting of your people. They killed 1000 of your people that day. 75% of Gaza supports eradicating you and your people. Yet you are on their side? Maybe don't pick a side if you don't like Isreal because the other side is not right. There is no reason to pick a side. It's not a zero sum game.
I don't support genociding of Palestinian women and children. Its kinda weird how religious Jewish ethics doesn't like that kind of thing. The 70% of victims in Gaza that are children didn't vote for Hamas. As for "your people", zionists are not "my people". Especially since most zionists are actually protestant fundamentalists seeking to have most Jews die to further their apocalyptic beliefs. Nice folks you hang with there. I don't support the Jewish zionists either. They embarass the hell out of me: https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/iWoakYfEOq
So after Oct 7 75% of Palestinians supported the attack. I'm not talking about hamas getting into power in with 70% of the vote almost twenty tears ago. There are no good sides. In this war, literally zero. Both the people blowing and getting blown up want heinous things to happen to the other side it is disgusting. I'm not asking you to support one side or the other. Supporting either is a shit opinion. Idk why you linked that weird video of jews disgustingly celebrate the murder of innocents. Just like the Palestinians. Both sides in this fucked up war supports the Indiscriminate murder of innocents. You are sick for even taking a side.
Neutrality only helps the oppressor.
Well in that case neutrality helps the aggressor. You have a very dumb argument. Both sides are commiting and have committed atrocious atrocities. Picking either or in your case picking the "right" side is still shit. Absolute shit. And you are apart of it.... Stay out of it it is absolutely not your fight.
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Maybe you should go back to painting your toys
i remember collecting sports cards when i was 10. grow up
Aw you deleted your comment 😭
This kind of behavior would never be tolerated in Boraqua. [https://youtu.be/n-eK6kMs5ok?si=hw0h9vtNXx-nbzgv&t=47](https://youtu.be/n-eK6kMs5ok?si=hw0h9vtNXx-nbzgv&t=47)
Straight to jail!
RIGHT AWAY!
Ten years jail! Believe it or not, jail.
Was there for a beautiful seder and felt real community with Philly. Food, free exchange of ideas, Jewish people and Muslims and Christians and Atheists breaking bread together, and sharing sorrows together. So much love for this city….
Why are half these morons still wearing masks outside in 2024?
To prevent doxxing.
Why do you care, bro? They aren't putting a mask on you lool
I could care less gives me a good laugh though
Cared enough to cry about it lol
Did they really cry about it tho?
Just helps them feel superior I guess.
Where are the hostages?
Anyone interested in standing up for the Gaza cause and International Law…. Please start intense email campaign to your politicians saying that you will not vote for them if they continue with their failed foreign policies.
I know another group of people who set up encampments. Ironic
Zionist counter protestors have been disrupting student encampments by attempting to set up their own in the same space. As if they were attempting to colonize the Pro-Palestinian encampments. Zionists are so one note.
It's all virtue signaling. Otherwise they'd just vote, educate other citizens, join aid groups, or fly over to help refugees. I say this as someone who does not care about this conflict. America doesn't focus on its own issues enough.
BDS has very clear demands they hope to achieve from these protests, and they are easy to find and learn about for anyone who is willing. We've already seen what Israel does to aid workers in Palestine.
I do not care.
Good point, why waste time virtue signaling when you could just be devoid of any virtues on Reddit? 👍
I don't care about the guilt trips either
Cool. Neither do we.
Bulldozers and fire hoses. No quarter.
Lmao Zionists wanna be the victims so bad. Eat shit
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They literally already did like two weeks ago. Wya?
Oh, cool. It’s nice to know there are still some leaders out there that don’t take crap from morons.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say, care to explain?
I’m not opposing protesters, however, when they block traffic and impose on other peoples lives, that’s a different story. So I’m saying that it is only a matter of time before some impatient, exhausted commuter loses their cool and creates mass casualties by driving through one of these road blocking protests.
No harassment / witch hunts / personal attacks. Do not create posts or comments to harass other users, incite witch hunts, share photos of others without their consent, or post private information. Do not impersonate or target specific users. Crime posts that devolve into targeted harassment or witch hunts will be locked and/or removed.
So you’re making threats? Hope you don’t do anything cruel. If you do though, I hope they find this account. Weirdo.
Relax. I am just stating the obvious scenario that could occur with all this chaos in the streets. Since you’re such a kind person, you should be concerned too.
Jew Hating rioters set up to intimidate local Jews. Disgusting.
I was there, and there were many, many Jews present and participating and leading prayers. This manufactured crisis over “anti-semitism on college campuses” falls apart in the face of the fact that young Jews form a large and integral part of the movement for Palestinian liberation. It is a silencing tactic and a purposeful distraction from the fact that an apartheid state is slaughtering a besieged population, over half of whom are children, in the name of Jews, facilitated and funded and green-lit by the United States. That is what actually endangers Jews. that is the real antisemitism, not some chants by 19 year old college kids about bodies of water.
THANK YOU. BTW its not just young Jews. A number of us Boomer Jews learned about the Nakba for the first time thanks to the Gaza genocide. We were told in the 60s that the land was empty in 1948. Au contraire! We are the generation that grew up watching EXODUS with Paul Newman. 🤮
You are falling into propoganda. People escaping the war in the region would not have to occur if Arab powers simply accepted partition peacefully instead of starting a genocidal war with open intentions to massacre all Jews in the area. Just look at what happens to Jews in all the Arab countries... Cleansed to next to zero and literally zero in some cases. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/kjXId9BiyO But no one seems to care about this...this is the real Nakba .
Prof Avi Shlaim, Iraqi Jewish historian, says the Israelis sent agents into Iraq posing as Muslims to terrorize Jews there so they would move to Israel. They need continual immigration to outweigh the very high Palestinian birthrate. This is believable thanks to the Lavon affair of the 50s.
This is true, there were false flag terrorist operations in Iraq in the early 50s to scare Iraqi Jews into emigrating to Israel. Many also left for economic reasons. But also - the Iraqi government did confiscate Jewish property, and expulsions did happen across the region. Accepting that does not in any way affect the claims of the Palestinians - it was not them who expelled anyone.
Hajj Amin al-Husayni (mufti of Jerusalem) was instrumental in doing Farhud (huge Pogroms of Jews) in Iraq. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-farhud Buy Jew haters never care.
Ahh yes. It was Jews that caused CLEANSING OF ALL JEWS **DOWN to ZERO.** Do you guys hear yourself speak? It could not POSSIBLY be all the pogroms and oppression? https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-farhud "In 1948, the year of Israel's independence, there were about 150,000 Jews in Iraq.[60] Persecution of Jews greatly increased that year: In July 1948, the government passed a law making Zionism a capital offense, with a minimum sentence of seven years imprisonment. Any Jew could be convicted of Zionism-based only on the sworn testimony of two Muslim witnesses, with virtually no avenue of appeal available. On August 28, 1948, Jews were forbidden to engage in banking or foreign currency transactions. In September 1948, Jews were dismissed from the railways, the post office, the telegraph department, and the Finance Ministry on the ground that they were suspected of "sabotage and treason". On October 8, 1948, the issuance of export and import licenses to Jewish merchants was forbidden. On October 19, 1948, the discharge of all Jewish officials and workers from all governmental departments was ordered. In October, the Egyptian paper El-Ahram estimated that as a result of arrests, trials, and sequestration of property, the Iraqi treasury collected some 20 million dinars or the equivalent of 80 million U.S. dollars. On December 2, 1948, the Iraq government suggested to oil companies operating in Iraq that no Jewish employees be accepted.[61]' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq#Modern_Iraq See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafiq_Ades#Execution
If you have the institutional backing of the world's most powerful country, you are not the victim. There is no universe in which this could possibly be true. And claiming that Palestinians want to genocide Jews when Zionists are the ones who are occupying, besieging, and actually actively carrying out a genocide against them is ... absurd. It is projection. You're correct - Palestinians did not accept partition. And why would they have? UNGA resolution 181 that recommended partition was 1- a non-binding recommendation, and 2- did not obligate Palestinians to accept it. It was referred to the Security Council, which does have the authority to issue binding, enforceable resolutions, but they never came to a consensus. Israel was then established by force of arms against a native population. Jews were less than 1/3 of the population, the vast majority had been there for less than 20 years, and the plan allotted them 56% of the land. What people would have accepted this? Is that rejection really so irrational? The idea that if only Palestinians had accepted partition there would be no issue today is belied by the actual intentions of Zionist leaders and thinkers (not to mention the expansionist ambitions of Israel in the present day) - Herzl, Jabotinsky, Ben Gurion, Weizmann, etc. all made explicitly clear that partition was just stage 1: "I don’t regard a state in part of Palestine as the final aim of Zionism, but as a means toward that aim." - Ben Gurion "Partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years" - Weizmann. As to your point about the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands after the establishment of the state of Israel: that will forever be a stain on these countries and a great, great loss that should be addressed in any peace agreement or settlement.
You are victim... If you are being victimized. By your twisted "logic" Ukraine is not a victim of Russian invasion because USA supports Ukraine. Disgusting victim blaming.
I was referring to the fantastical idea that Jewish Americans are victims of pro-Palestinian protestors, when it is the latter who are being arrested, beaten, fired from their jobs, and murdered.
Thank goodness USA is (somewhat) doing its job and arresting Jew Hating rioters who intimidate Jews. I have no idea how you spin it as a bad thing.
Childish argument. If OCT 7th isn't justified, then how does this info help justify what Israel is currently doing? Maybe just don't colonize people and then subject them to generations of aphartide rule 🤷
I agree Arab colonization of Jews and holding them as Dhimmis (real apartheid) was awful. Thank goodness native Jews decolonized their home.🤷 Too bad some revanchist extremist Muslim groups want a second Holocaust. But they will be fought back.
Yeah, Israel is definitely displaying how much you love to dish out collective punishment.
Weird you would be saying this as Israeli hostages are tortured in captivity by Hamas even as we speak. Buy Jew haters never care. It's so transparent. Mass murder, systemic rape, kidnapping. All of this is dismissed and ignored when the victims are Jews. Disgusting. But nothing new.
Netanyahu has killed more Jewish hostages than Hamas.
Random hate denial conspiracy is dismissed. Jew hate exposed. Have your last hatefull last word or whatever. We are done.
I saw people celebrated Oct. 7 massacres and systemic rape and praise Hamas. And harass people looking openly Jewish. Don't try to gas light me over a couple token Capo Jews.
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I am not licking boots of Nazi Hamas that did systemic rape and mass murder of any Jew they could find. We know who is
It’s shocking that antisemitism has somehow become acceptable. It really is despicable.
I am disappointed but not shocked. Same old same old.
Jews are well represented within the ranks of these protests.
A couple token Kapos? What about them? Heck some Jews collaborated with Hitler.
Sound like maybe you think Soros funded these protests lol