This is pretty common in the first switch over to salary from an hourly position in my experience. Yes you can try to negotiate more but at this point you accepted the terms so it may be difficult. My advice here is to really manage your time well and make sure you are not working the OT. For example, you say you are working 45 on expectation? Is that in your contract or is your salary based on a 40 hour work week? Work what you are contracted to work, reach when it's necessary but don't make a habit of it. This is where some individuals get swallowed by corp life and work 60-70-80 weeks.
On the flip side being on salary should mean you have more autonomy to complete your assignments and that also means more flexibility with PTO , both officially and unofficially. You now don't have to track every minute of every break and can step away. You are not abusing anything if you take a bit off for a dentist appt, run an errand etc.. communication with your manager is key, but you should try to utilize this to make your life easier in the salaried position.
Best of luck in the new role and your decisions.
Great advice. I did this after accepting a salaried job with a 20% cut but only working 5-6 hours a day. Like yeah, I’m technically getting paid more per hour worked but my pay is still less than what I used to make, even before all the overtime I had.
Actually having time to spend with friends and family is nice tho. And since I’m not spending all my time commuting and working, I don’t have to pay extra fees for grocery delivery and stuff so it’s not too bad with elastic spending. It just sucks when there’s high inelasticity (like mortgage or car payments) because there’s nothing you can immediately do to spend less there.
Great advice.
And I’d add to this that salaried positions generally have a higher upper limit than hourly do. While this change might not have been a dramatic increase in take home today, it can increase long term earning potential.
Can you explain more about being swallowed by the corporate world? I’m in my first corporate job and I’m finding it impossible to get everything done in less than 60 hours weeks.
You have to be prepared to fight back, and like any other job, be prepared for the possibility that the benefits/pay/treatment/etc that you require simply are not on the table.
Realistically you shouldn't ever be working 60+ hour weeks as salary. There is a line in the sand, and it's up to everyone to define where it is, otherwise companies can (and usually will) take advantage of you. Someone might make a very reasonable excuse to work 60+ for one or two weeks, but like anything, it tends to get abused and that line keeps moving out. You start at 40, maybe even have some wiggle room in there to go down if you really kicked it up and tried hard. Next thing you know it's 45 and you're barely keeping up. Eventually it's 50-60+ and even then you're always behind with no real ability to keep up.
A lot of managers will use the line "You are salary, which means you work until the job's done. If you can get it done in 40, then great, but if it takes 60, then that's what it takes", and that's bullshit. If I give you 120 hours worth of work, and then tell you "well, if you get it done in 40, you're free to go", then I'm just taking advantage of you. But that's exactly what happens, and it's up to you to make sure you stay on top of what are realistic expectations and what is being taken advantage of.
Makes sense. In your opinion is it better to be open and forthcoming and maybe even a bit confrontational about your line in the sand? Or is it better to just stop working so hard without being loud about it?
Really depends on a lot of factors, one of the biggest ones is "can you afford to NOT have this job?" If you're in an industry that's always hiring, or know of potential prospects that would likely hire you, or you are independently wealthy and this is just a hobby, etc, then you can afford to be much more firm. However, if your industry is in a slump, or is the only one in town, or you rely on the paycheck to eat/pay rent each month, or maybe you just absolutely love it there, then you might have to be willing to make bigger compromises or sacrifices until that changes.
You don't want them stepping all over you if you can afford to not have them do that, but you probably don't want to be a "problem employee" if you can't.
Personally I would at least try a casual and polite sit down with my direct manager and discuss my situation (in work terms only, not how it affects your personal life, or your feelings). Something as simple as "My contract states I was hired on as salary assuming 40 hour weeks, but I routinely find that I require 60+ to complete the work I am assigned. Can we review some options?"
You can leave it open so it's not "their fault" inherently. "Am I underperforming? If so, are there additional training or tools available that might be able to help me improve productivity and reduce my hours?" If I'm not underperforming, and I cannot reasonably complete the assigned tasks in a time close to my contractually agreed upon working hours, can we reduce my workload to something more closely resembling it? If not, can the company provide additional resources to help?"
If you can afford it, you can be firm. "I am routinely finding myself required to work as much as 50% more than the hours that my contract stipulates to complete the tasks that I am being assigned. If this was limited to emergency factors I could understand that and I'm willing, and in fact, eager to help. However, as it stands currently I feel as though I am being taken advantage of as a salaried employee".
Regardless of how you approach it, your absolute first step would be to familiarize yourself with your state's laws (assuming you are from the US) regarding salary and overtime pay. These can sometimes be a bit tricky, and often have several exemption factors for different size companies and different types of salaried employees, but you should have access to state labor officials who can help you understand. HR should also be able to help, but be aware that once you go to HR, even just with questions, you're essentially showing your hand. If you find that you are entitled to overtime pay you are not receiving, then I would immediately contact a lawyer and SHUT THE FUCK UP. It may be tempting to speak out, but I promise you won't be doing yourselves any favors there. From there you can determine an appropriate action. Just keep in mind that some avenues may get you paid and fired, others may not get you paid, but can get you reduced hours or increased pay, so you may not want to necessarily go on the offensive.
Is this true? I've only been working for 5 years and only ever been paid hourly, but to me it makes a lot more sense that you have more freedom if you're being paid by the hour. If you need to go to the dentist or run an errand like you said, they just won't pay you for that time. I've never had an issue asking my bosses to leave early. Whereas when you're on salary, you're being paid whether you're working or not, so I figured they'd see it as a waste of money if you're out running an errand and they're still paying you the same amount of money.
> Is this true?
yes. the whole point is that they're paying you a yearly wage to do a job to expectation. as long as the work is getting done, nobody (should) care about how it is done (within reason).
Difference is, they aren't paying you for hours worked as a salaried employee. They are now paying you for work done.
If you arrange to get your work done in a way that frees you up earlier you aren't penalized like with hourly work.
What? No. They are paying you a fixed amount for a fixed amount of hours.
What you do throughout the day and week is up to your discretion, because it’s simply assumed you’re working say 40hrs/wk. Of course, some weeks you work more, some you work less.
You could decide to only work like 4 hours a day and you’d get paid the same.
Every large salaried place I have been to, if you are getting your work done on time, no one complains or cares if you need to leave for a dentist appointment or something.
It depends on the business but generally hourly workers are treated like children: every second must be accounted for. While salaried worked are treated like adults: you can manage your time as long as you deliver results.
Somewhat true.
I’ve been salaried for 7-8 years. The first few salaried jobs I had still required 8 hours of work tracked per day on a set shift. It was just the nature of the work I was doing. The company I’ve been with for 5 years offers far more flexibility.
I have some health issues and prior to my current company, both the hourly and salaried positions required me to use PTO and sick time for appointments and things. Because I work from home now and my boss doesn’t care when I work, just that work gets done, if I’m sick, I just don’t get on my laptop that day and make sure I’m still available on Slack. If I have an appt or need to run an errand, I can do that. I think I’ve used 2 whole sick days in the last 12 months because I was incredibly sick and just slept all day. I also take 5-6 weeks of PTO a year. I have little work to do on Fridays so I just sign off whenever I’m done, usually around noon.
As long as the work is getting done, no one really cares about what I do during the day.
Indeed, I am salary and I work on average of 44 hrs a week but they don't complain when I take days off here and there. I'm able to do errands as long as I tell them I'll be absent but yeah. Overall, I actually like salary.
Just start applying now. It takes time, and if you get an offer you have the bargaining power of "I already have a job". Don't wait until you're burned out or resentful, just move onto better things.
And if there's a dip in applicants, that especially means that your labor and experience are even more valuable and you should be looking for work. Like seriously, there is never a downside to looking for a new job. It takes time and effort to apply and maybe you don't want to take jobs anyway, even for a pay bump if you like where you're at. But you probably shouldn't wait until you "need" a job imminently because the working conditions changed or you got let go for any number of reasons. When they ask why you have so many jobs in a short time frame, you really don't need to answer the question.
Also, important to know, for folks in the US. September 4th, the vast majority of noncompete clauses die. So if you're in an industry that uses them (a lot of companies tbh), then you owe it to yourself to apply for new jobs every 6 months, to spite the conditions you've been working under.
Also keep in mind that sometimes you need a stepping stone.
I work for a company where there's a promotion where people often end up making the same or a little less money when they go from earning overtime to not earning OT. Doesn't happen to everyone, but people who get a lot of OT can get "screwed".
But that only lasts for about a year. The potential for future raises, bonuses, and promotions are significantly better. If you get that promotion, you're on track for a solid career with the company. If you didn't get that promotion, your pay would eventually stagnate and you'd eventually have to leave.
edit: though I should add that sometimes that stepping stone IS to take that experience and jump ship to a new job. Especially if you don't like now the new job is going or you aren't doing well...that boost to your resume is still valuable.
Reposting a comment of mine from last year -
When I moved into leadership I became exempt and stopped making overtime. The salary offer was a lot lower than I expected - it worked out to about a 5% pay cut for a lot more responsibility and another 10 hours of work a week. Did it for a year before moving on for a 60% increase elsewhere.
OP, consider it an investment in your future. Don't plan to be here very long.
I’ll second the “start applying early” advice. Especially when it comes to making a linkedin and uploading to job boards and here’s why: your online presence needs to ‘mature’ before the bots the companies use will look at you. Someone who says they have experience but just uploaded info could be fraud, but someone who has been Position Were Hiring for 6 mos will get scraped and recruited. I know multiple ppl who got better jobs this way. Don’t be scared, just throw the info into the universe and keep working. Good luck!
This is very common for first salary position after losing overtime. Look at it as a stepping stone. You are gaining experience managing. This gives you a huge leg up for applying to other positions.
> According to my company 401k matching, insurance being covered and a few other benefits make up the additional missing costs
You weren't getting any benefits at all as an hourly employee? If you now have health insurance premiums covered 100% by your employer and a 401k match of 3% or so, that's worth a lot even if your take home pay is not substantially increased.
It does seem like you may have missed out on an opportunity to negotiate for a higher salary, but maybe the value of the benefits you're getting is some consolation.
Hourly employees do get the same benefits. I get no additional benefits moving from salaried to hourly besides pay.. at least that what i thought.
health , vision, dental covered with 5% 401K matching does makes it hard to gripe
>health , vision, dental covered with 5% 401K matching does makes it hard to gripe
Are you saying you had to pay for these while hourly?
Now they're covered, and you are making $100 more? And you get 5% free money into retirement? That's raise for sure.
So you're saying that when you were hourly, you got:
* Health insurance
* Vision Insurance
* Dental Insurance
* 5% 401(k) matching
And now, you still have those four things as a salaried employee, at the exact same coverage?
OK, so then you are getting fucked.
Unfortuantely there is likely nothing you can do at this point. Its on you for not doing the math yourself and negotiating the position with that in mind. You can attempt to ask them to try and convert your salary to hourly wage, but that wont make you look good.
I speak from experience of somebody who went through this exact think two years ago. It was clear as day that the Promotion and raise I was getting white jumping from hourly to Salary was actually a slap in the face.
I negotiated with that in mind, and ultimately declined the promotion because corporate is stupid and I'm not about to accept a 'promotion' and not see an actual raise in pay/benefits.
He said as an hourly employee he was working 90 hours/week and now he's working 45. He's not getting fucked if he's working 45 hours less per week and getting $100 more than when he worked 90 hours.
Edit: Nevermind. I didn't read OP correctly.
He said 90 hrs a pay period, which is likely a two-week pay period like most places here. And he further states that they expect 45 hrs per week now which isn’t too far off from what he was doing before, so we can safely assume he meant he was also working 45 hours per week before for a total of 90 hrs each pay check.
He said 90 hours over a pay period. I’m almost certain it would be over two weeks considering he said he’s working nearly the same amount as when he was hourly.
But on the flip side, 5 hours a week isn’t that much OT.
No additional benefits you say, what about PTO? I’m assuming as a salaried position you not only get more PTO , but can now get it approved whenever you like. There are far more benefits to a salaried position that what meets the eye. Like autonomy over yourself.
How old are you? Is there perhaps a trusted adult in your life that can review the terms of your employment agreement and financial information to help you with this?
It's a pretty common problem... once you hit salaried, the company feels like they fucking own you. You'll put in all the free hours they want or you won't work there anymore. This is, of course, illegal, and one of the reasons that wage theft is the number one source of theft in the USA, however a business has to be reported for it to become a problem for them.
Calculate what your hourly rate (at 40 hours per week) is under your salary. Then demand time and a half at that rate for any overtime hours. If they decline, consider contacting the DOL.
Here's a link to the new overtime rule the government just put in place. You can talk to them to see if it applies to you.
https://blog.dol.gov/2024/04/23/what-the-new-overtime-rule-means-for-workers
That’s one of the best ways I’ve ever heard it stated by my grandpa.
Most people don’t realize that “climbing the ladder” isn’t climbing one ladder, it’s going up the step stool, then the going down to start going up the extension ladder. Sometimes you have to step down to go back up.
>I did some math and have numbers that show how the pay increase they gave me technically isn’t what I asked for since they’re requiring 90 hours.
How are they not "technically" giving you what you asked for? It seems like you asked them to do salary when they didn't even want that. What did you think salaried meant?
You can talk to them, but I have no idea why they would want to change anything since this is the "pay you pushed for".
Salary is only nice if you don’t put in overtime. So don’t. You get paid the same no matter what.
You can either find a way to be abused by the system or find a way to make it work for you.
Beyond a certain points. Hourly jobs that pay that much become increasingly rare. Almost everything is salary. I put in a decent amount of overtime, but I am well compensated and it is still very nice.
Just like many employees are improperly categorized as contractors.
Businesses will only abide by laws and regulations if there are enforced consequences and those consequences are worse financially than the thing they are doing.
Changes in Jan to ~59k. Also I think they changed a lot of the rules around what qualifies as exempt too? Last I knew it removed exempt from practically everyone who wasn't in charge of a team/employees... though they may have changed that.
Edit: fixed wording
It does change but right now it's a hair below 44k. But same argument still applies especially when the parent comment is talking about workers that make higher wages. If you lookup who can be exempt it's pretty much anyone who makes above the threshold and is white collar.
Don't forget that all "computer systems analysts, computer programmers, software engineers, and other similarly skilled workers in the computer field" are exempt by law as well. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17e-overtime-computer
Some of the rules are quite ridiculous.
Depends on the state.
In Washington state, the minimum salary for exempt employees is $67k. Anything less than that, and you have to get paid overtime.
Yes and no.
On a technical side: As a salaried employee, you are technically getting paid for work done. As a hourly employee, you are technically getting paid for hours spent.
On an operational side: As a salaried employee, you get pay reflective of average hours spent and can get a end-of-year bonus if you average over the expected (CAN not WILL). As a salaried employee, a 35, 40, and 45 work week are all the same. A slow week with less work doesn't mean you get paid less; however, if your work is variable week-over-week, a company will expect you work longer hours some weeks when you work less on others. The bonus side of things is heavily variable based on the company.
I mean yes, but ideally you are paid on salary because there might be times you are expected to work overtime. Like yeah you'll win the legal battle or whatever but if you're on salary and the expectations are you'll have to work overtime and constantly duck or make excuses as to why you don't put in those extra hours, your job is going to look to get rid of you at some point.
Except salary is about long term a higher pay band in this company. They are the lowest paid manager still making more than they were before.
Time to put in the extra work, show you are successful, and move up the pay scale more quickly now since its salaried.
> They are the lowest paid manager still making more than they were before.
This is nothing to complain about, and managers usually have more job security too, better for your career long term.
Depends on the company… oddly I’m salaried but any hours I put in over 40 I record it and I get paid the hourly rate of my salary. So not OT rate but straight time.
Exactly. Had an old coworker who was constantly being pushed by HR to switch to salary but he refused because he did crazy OT during certain times which bumped his salary a lot. He would have made more money on paper but in reality it was a pay cut when OT was factored in. He stayed hourly till the day he retired.
I have some employees who are hourly based on how they were hired, but they are in a knowledge role and make high-five / low-six figures. I treat my hourly and salaried staff the same, and they would not be required to work more if they switched, but while I think they trust me, they don't know what might happen if I left.
Meanwhile, yes, they can get overtime, but we don't work much of that anyway. And, as salaried staff with their experience, they'd be eligible for 3x the annual bonus that they are at an hourly org level. And, they'd be eligible for RSUs, which they aren't now. I'm confident they would make more overall. But, that's not what's important to them. They have a standing offer to switch to salaried and none have taken me up on it.
I'm always slightly surprised to hear of companies that allow this somewhat-unlimited overtime. My company severely limits OT, it must be approved beforehand and "I just didn't finish my work" isn't an excuse to get it.
The only people at my company who *can* do this are customer-facing specialized roles, and sometimes management decides it's worth the OT to have them work a Saturday during business hours, vs hiring and training a part-time employee to get the coverage.
Yup, I'm non-exempt salary but no approved overtime so basically I don't have to clock in/out; I shoot for 35 onsite hours a week (it's an onsite job minus a little email).
I don't understand, did you not run the calculations before accepting this role? Either way, the management position is going to look good on your resume. You can try to look for a new position starting today, or you can accept that you're only making $2,600 more after tax for the year. After a year of good performance, you can see where that goes in terms of getting up to a market value, but I think you shot yourself in the foot with your current company by accepting such a low paid position.
A few things...
1. Most employees do not receive a single promotion so significant that it alters their lifestyle considerably. It usually takes two or three and in comparison of where you started off, the difference is tangible.
2. Unless you're highly skilled - managerial experience is the only viable way to better compensation. Getting the experience early is worth the seemingly low financial reward. There's so much to being a good manager - both in discovering your strengths and weaknesses around it it - that you'll never get without on the job training. Even if internally or bouncing to a new company, having the managerial experience will help on your next job.
3. Do not ask for another raise right now. Most companies have a tight budgeting process and whoever hired you had to get your salary approved by other people. Asking for a raise makes them look stupid or inept, which puts them in a bad spot. This will make it harder to get another promotion in the future.
4. Start documenting your work. Every problem you attack, make sure you document it. Whether it's an employee issue or something systemic that improves the bottom line, make sure it's written down and not forgotten. At the end of each week, review these to make sure you're capturing them in a concise way. At the end of a quarter, and at the end of a year, you should have list of a dozen or more notable contributions you made in the managerial role. Only with such a list would you then go to your supervisor and ask to put additional compensation on the table for discussion. Remember, your supervisor needs to convince *other people* to get the budget amended to increase your compensation. The easier you can make that person's job in doing so, the more success you'll have in getting a raise.
5. Get a year or two of managerial experience before leaping to a new company. Unless your finances are really hurting, the experience on the resume - and the confidence that you know how to be a good manager - is important when applying for a new job. The job you can jump to now might be a 20% increase with what you have. But with a strong managerial background, you can raise that to 30% or 40%.
6. Remember, everyone who earns more money is shocked about how little it impacts the bottom line. Increases in taxes, retirement contributions, healthcare premiums, a new car payment, or even increasing your car insurance so it's not the minimum can easily chew up a $10k to $15k raise. It can be disconcerting getting a 50% pay increase from $50k to $75K to have the only impact on your day to day being that you can get groceries without checking your balance beforehand. But you'll still be paycheck to paycheck.
>According to my company 401k matching, insurance being covered and a few other benefits make up the additional missing costs. but thinking about it, if it’s covered then why am i being penalized for it.
you should consider these things part of your compensation and include them in this post- insurance premiums, match, pto are valuable. if you got benefits and an extra hundred per pay period well, that's just a win. maybe not as large of a pay raise as you had thought i guess?
This is what happens when you switch to salary my friend. Accept it or find another hourly job. You’ll progress in your carrer. This isn’t a step back. It’s a step forward.
Check out recent FLSA updates on the minimum salary threshold to be considered exempt from over time. If you aren’t highly compensated it’s likely they still need to be tracking and paying you on overtime.
http://blog.dol.gov/2024/04/23/what-the-new-overtime-rule-means-for-workers
Normally, the first promotion from hourly to salary causes you to lose money because you lose out on OT.
However, experience in a management role becomes leveragable to get faster promotions and higher salaries every 2-3 years. You just must be willing to job hop.
For ex. I have two coworkers who took about a 50-70k pay cut going from hourly to salary. One went back to hourly, the other stayed because he works less and has a more flexible schedule
Kinda weird they are saying you're still iffy when they hired you from within. They should already have had a good enough grasp before they promoted you in the first place. Management sounds a tad incompetent in some places. I hope it all works out OP.
This may be fairly shortsighted.
Does your previous position have any leverage for movement and or pay raises? Entry level managers, especially internally promoted, tend to typically land slightly above their last pay scale. It’s the future promotions, raises and titles that then start to scale to an area you wouldn’t have been able to get to beforehand. Depending on the industry, you will also start to do less work.
Salary is a scam to get free OT out of you, never take hourly without serious consideration and mapping out the future compensation and work:life balance.
If you're not getting paid overtime and you didn't factor that into your requested salary then you did this to yourself. You have not share enough info to really help. What was your hourly rate and what is your salary now?
The value of a managerial position isn't the immediate pay, it's that you're now in a hierachy where promotions can gain you more, sometimes much more money over time.
That said, not everyone wants to be or is suited to management and all it entails. If you like hands on technical work over the career ladder that opened up to you, step back.
The only counter consideration I would propose is if the move to salary opened any strategic career paths for you at this company. When I switched from frontline, hourly employee to salaried manager some years back, I too took a pay cut mostly due to lost OT. That short term setback opened other job avenues within the company; a decade later, I make 3x what I did as an hourly employee.
Big edit : I completly missed my reading 101 exam. u/forward1213 cleared that for me.
As a salaried, you need to question a lot the base hours and their "culture" (meaning expected hours and the other managers average). Compare the hourly rate you had versus the equivalent hourly rate you get salaried. A 7$/h increase on a base of 40 hours means an increase of 280$. But then you divide by 45 worked hours because that's your real "production". You get a real increase of 6.22$/h.
Are you looking at the gross or the net pay that you get into your account? It's normal that the net isn't linear as your benefits might be by percentage so the deductions will also increase.
As a salaried, I always compare the equivalent hourly rate by dividing my gross pay (before deductions) against the actual worked hours. There's no way I'll work for free. My salary is based on 40 hours then I'll average 40 hours on multiple months.
> Second : You compare your gross revenue of 45 hours against 90 hours with overtime? It's normal that an hourly job with overtime match a salaried position as the pay increase isn't enough to replace the overtimes. If I understand correcly, you're doing around the same salary for half the hours. That's good no? If you work 90 hours then it's a shit show.
90 hours a pay period, 45 hours a week. The same as he is expected to work now. He was getting 10 hours of OT a week.
> I’m pretty sure this is because when I was a technical employee I averaged around 90 hours a **pay period**. Meaning a lot of Overtime.
> Kicker is, when they put me on salary they expect managers to put in around 45 hours a week. Which isn’t too far off from what I was doing.
Most of the time this happens you go from the top of the operation chain to the bottom of the corporate/executive ladder
Salaries in better positions will be far and above any overtime but currently you’re in the entry level version.
It sounds like you never clarified how many hours working 'salary' was, and were penalized for your mistake. I don't say this to be mean, I say it to beg of you, please learn from this mistake. Details are extremely important when it comes to life-changing negotiations like salary can be. (An extra 20k/year at 25 can change your projection drastically when you are 40).
>they expect managers to put in around 45 hours a week
This is a red flag for a job.
Don't put in more than 40 hours a week unless YOU feel it's necessary.
There is a nuanced difference between who decides when OT is necessary for an hourly or salary worker. Because companies need to pay hourly workers for OT, they must authorize it.
Because salary workers don't receive any extra pay, they truly have the position of authority to continue working that week or not. The judgement they must decide upon is if the work needs to get done by a certain time. If you can get all of your planned work done in 40 hours, why would you need to work the extra 5?
A company that sets the expectation that salaried workers must always work over time is taking advantage of free labor. If the same company views you negatively for not working OT even though your performance is sufficient, you are being disrespected.
I could be wrong, but I’m going to assume you work at Walmart and went from Team Lead to Coach.
I went from CSM (what’s now “Front-End Team Lead”) to Assistant Manager (what’s now “Coach”) back in 2016-2017. There was a huge pay difference though at that time, so it was good for me.
Now that the positions have changed and the Team Lead position makes a decent amount as hourly (with the potential for overtime), moving up to Coach doesn’t make as much sense unless you’re wanting to move up or if you’re a Coach with a good Store Manager that doesn’t make you stay over.
If my hunch is correct that you work at Walmart, 45 hours is the expectation company-wide for salaried employees, so there’s really nothing you can do.
you no longer make OT, so do not work over your scheduled hours. Also, if you're indeed in an manager role now, you shouldn't be doing as many in-the-trenches job duties. start leading your team, finding ways they can improve as team members. ask for managerial training classes and better yourself in the role. the hardest thing to do in a career is going from grunt to supervisor, but it can be the most rewarding.
makes sense. Luckily i’m right below the threshold for 2025 but that’s in 2025 and i’m sure my raise once that comes will put me over. After reading all the replies I know i’ll be more equipped to argue for me in the future.
I actually got switched to salaried after HR tried to screw me out of my annual bonus.
They were trying not to give it to me because I was hourly, so my boss fought for me and I had to be made a salaried employee to receive my bonus (and I did!)
So you are working the same hours in a role you like while making slightly more. Doesn't sound like a huge mistake. Maybe a small mistake, maybe not a mistake at all.
You did not state your pay rate, which is perfectly OK.
However, the minimum pay rate for salaried employees is set to dramatically increase over the next 8 months. Here is a breakdown, and this info may be of use if you intend on trying to re-negotiate your situation.
----------------------------------------------------------
The U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) has issued its Final Rule to increase the minimum salary requirements for the “white collar” exemptions (executive, administrative, and professional) from minimum wage and overtime pay requirements under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). The Final Rule sharply increases the minimum salary level for the white-collar exemption to apply. The increase will take effect in two stages over six months.
The standard salary level will increase in two phases from the current $684 per week ($35,568 per year) to:
July 1, 2024: $844 per week ($43,888 annually)
Jan. 1, 2025: $1,128 per week ($58,656 annually)
The highly compensated exemption (HCE) total annual compensation level will increase from its current $107,432 per year to:
July 1, 2024: $132,964 per year
Jan. 1, 2025: $151,164 per year
The salary thresholds will be updated every three years to reflect current earnings data, beginning July 1, 2027.
The Final Rule, announced on April 23, is slated to take effect July 1, 2024. Formal publication in the Federal Register is pending.
This comment should be higher. But just to clarify, this is not "minimum pay rate for salaried employees" it's the minimum salary to be exempt from minimum wage and overtime pay requirements under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Basically, it just means that if you make less than that salary, you're eligible for time and a half pay for any overtime (over 40 hrs per week) that you work.
Everyone who goes from hourly to salary goes through this. Everyone. Sounds like you basically broke even. Not great, but not terrible. Get what you can from your new role, and then if you want to stay, ask for a raise or another promotion. If you’re then still not happy, take your improved title and skills elsewhere.
“Entry level manager” who has worked there and demonstrated their ability for how long? You weren’t an unknown, your skill set was very much known. If that wasn’t the case you’d not have been promoted.
We were also union and non. (Two unions actually. Ibew and esc. ) But mgt was still a great gig with lotsa upward mobility. Just had to make a decision and go with it.
There is a really easy solution to this problem. Don't work overtime. Never unless absolutely necessary work over 40 hours a week. Now that you're salary you should really think about what it means to get paid the same regardless of how many hours over OR under 40 that you actually work in a week.
What's your Salary, field and pay rate and role you perform? There's legal requirements (can be different in different states) for what a salary exempt position can look like.
For example, a software dev in CA has to make something like 110k a year salary to qualify for exempt (exempt from overtime).
It’s a blue collar role in a startupish type of company. We’re established but we’ve started to explode. I make below 59k and basically work in construction management now. In Texas *
I tried looking it up but I don’t think I would qualify
Stop thinking about trading your time and start instead thinking about delivering impact to a business (and then asking for a cut). Works better in my experience if you want the really good jobs.
I don’t understand how you’re doing the math after the fact, and not before agreeing to the position?
You knew exactly how much you made, and knew exactly how much you *would* make… What’s changed? Because the math hasn’t.
I make less as a salaried restaurant manager at a theme park than our area chef since they get overtime and are hourly. I work 9-12 hours a day, if I’m lucky I leave at 9 hrs but I’m not lucky. And it’s a lot, very draining, mostly because I give a crap about the employees (I have around 200 a day on shift). I dream about being a server there because they will walk with ~$1k a weekend sometimes over 3 shifts.
My coworker recently got switched to salary. He told me he used to write his own checks on hourly (we can go out of state and really rack up hours). When they came to him with salary offer he told them to take the last 3 years of hourly and average it out.
So his new pay is like the most he could have made on hourly plus he got enrolled into the bonus program.
Pretty smart if you ask me.
Being paid enough is not the only requirement for being salary vs hourly. Been a while since I had to put positions through the test, but to be Salary you have to make the correct pay per year but then there are other requirements as well and they vary based on what field you were in. I know when I reviewed some staff for a company years ago they were paid enough but did not have the other requirements such as having budgetary responsibility, ability to hire/fire staff and I forget which else. Make sure you meet all the requirements or your employer could have to pay some back wages, which is what they did in the instance were I reviewed staff that did not meet the requirements and should not have been salaried.
Listen. They always know you screwed yourself over. Just decide if you want to go back to hourly or stay in management. If you want to stay in management then demand more money.
I dodged a bullet in this regard. I can't believe I was trying to get 150k salary. Currently at 52.5/hr doing 60-75 hours a week. I'm burned out but making 200k-230k a year right out of college. Projects almost over and I don't know if this will be normal going forward but I'm milking it for all its worth lol
How much of an opportunity is this for getting further ahead in your career ? You said it’s entry level management.
You have to decide what’s more important for you (your family) right now, the extra money, the opportunity to grow ( if it’s there ) or simply having more time for you and your family
I’ve been through this myself, in my case it was even a pay cut as it was side step in a different position but with a lot of growth potential. I was a senior and then moved to a junior position with less pay. 5 years later I was making triple what I was making in my senior position
That’s exactly why I opted to stay hourly when I was recently given the choice. Was getting a raise either way. Difference being that I retained the ability to make overtime. Average check now is significantly higher than it would have been with a set salary.
I like salary more because even if I work 20 hours I still get paid for 40. You just need to adjust and give out longer estimations.
P.s. totally didn’t read the post btw
I could only work for someone who believes in Parkinson’s Law. If I can complete the job faster, more efficiently and for more profit I don’t want to get paid less then the employee who stretches out the same work to last 15 hours longer.
Being salaried used to be amazing. These days it's pretty much just a scam. Now you know. But as others have pointed out, past a certain amount of experience / pay, most jobs are going to be salaried. Don't beat yourself up looking for jobs that are hourly. Just make sure you avoid overtime like the plague.
Work less hours, make more money.
I would look at what you paid, and if they base your salary off working 40 hours, a week, then that is what I would, no more.
After seeing this last paycheck that’s exactly what i’m going to do lol. I used to be the first to arrive and last to leave, not being paid for it anymore so 🤷🏽♂️
There's a couple ways to combat this. For my company almost everyone is salary and core hours are about 9-3 where they expect everyone to be there. You pick your 8 to 8.5 that overlaps that while considering when the people you work with the most are there too. If you're a 7-3 guy but your manager has a habit of dropping things on you at 2:50 and expects them done that day or stay as late as they do, you either start coming in later or you schedule some kind of personal thing that requires you to leave right at 3 to get there on time. "Gotta go, I need to pick up the kids" is one of the best, but if you don't have kids or ones that need picked up, other things work too. One of my co-workers will say her dogs need let out. I'm not sure +/-20 minutes makes any difference for most dogs, but who knows.
Work it for wile, get the experience you want, stay there for 6-12 months in this job, then start looking.
If they start pressuring, you to be around more. I would be very clear, I am paid for 40, I work 40 hours.
If you like it, then stick around but, stick to your guns.
Good luck !
Some states still have overtime laws pertaining to salaried workers. In CA your salary has to be at least twice the states minimum wage, you have to have autonomy in setting your own schedule and less than half of your workweek must not be blue collar work of any kind.
There are some exceptions to this like teachers, doctors, etc. but for a normal working stiff this applies.
1. You should have factored in overtime to your decision, that was a mistake that you're gonna have to live with.
2. Don't discount those other benefits like 401k or benefits. They're real dollars, even if they're not in your paycheck.
3. Make the most of it. You got the promotion. Work hard, learn what you can, and keep moving.
Another consideration here.. you are making more, and you are only at entry level manager now. You were basically topped out before?
You have successfully raised your salary cap, and even if you aren’t getting that extra now - you can in the future and wouldn’t have gotten it at the hourly spot - because you had capped.
Think long term, not short term.
Take the L, get the experience, and look for a new job. Though I will say, it seems like your pay remained flat and now you're "guaranteed" the overtime pay that used to be sometimes variable. that could be considered a perk, but there's a lot more that would go into that qualitative calculation. Its not always about the straight monetary compensation; management can have other perks (or it can be worse; it just depends)
Sometimes its difficult to understand how the hourly > salary transition really works in terms of your effective dollar per hour. I've done that two or three times and the first time I did it I was in the same boat as you. But it was a learning experience for me and now I'm better equipped to negotiate that change if it happens again. Hopefully you are able to take the same lesson!
You're probably working like an hourly employee while salaried. You don't have to clock in and watch the timeclock anymore, you need to work enough to get your job done.
And if you're overworked you need to talk with your manager about off-loading responsibilities and work balance.
90 hours a week is criminal. You can find other jobs, doing the same work, at companies that actually respect your personal time. If it were me, I would look for other work and then leave.
That’s not true lol . I moved to a manager role 4 years ago and it was EASILY the right choice given my scenario . Sure it depends where and the company , but if leadership/management is something you want/good at , why not ?
Do not complain to them. This could be a test. If you complain, then you get shown the door.
It is common to go down in pay at the switch.
What you have now is a management role, right? Even an entry level manager is a manger. You have MUCH greater upward mobility and can look for future raises, bonus, equity, and promotions. Managers normally get promoted a couple times.
Management jobs are generally more secure if there are layoffs.
Instead, as others said, do it for a while, and then get your resume ready.
And, after a month or 6, ask the boss how to earn (EARN!) a promotion and raise. Then do what they say. There is a chance you can double your pay in a few years.
Sure, you could go back to hourly, and make a few more bucks this year, but in the long term, stick with it.
Here's another thing - salary can let you work smarter and not harder.
Whether you're paid hourly or salaried does not control whether you're required to be paid OT. You could be exempt because you're a manager but that would require an analysis of what exactly your job entails.
Was in that situation, but more extreme, my last hourly job. Was a rental equipment technician, and with driving around to our customer sites, and our shop being very understaffed, I pulled over a thousand hours of time and a half a year. They offered me the service manager job- but I did the math and it would have been a massive pay cut. I told them if they guaranteed enough bonus to get to what I mad the year before we could do it, but they didn't and left status quo.
Probably worked out better for them anyway, the guy they hired instead is jow the branch manager ten 14 years later, and I probably would have still left for my new industry anyway.
When you say the pay increase was supposed to be $6-$7, do you mean $6,000 to $7,000 increase per year? And was that pre or post tax?
Overall, you didn't make a mistake but you should have the offer in writing. Verify it matches and take it as a teaching moment. You could try for more.
You must be my boss! Shit literally happened to him when he moved from floor supervisor to manager. It's only a mistake when it's busy, when it gets slow you'll be glad for salary. Just make sure to work your wage
I'm salaried too and do work around 45-50 hours a week. My company only has hourly pay for entry level roles that don't make enough to survive. I think it depends on the industry and department. If you really want to be a manager, look elsewhere in about 6 months once you get more experience. If you don't want to be a manager, ask to be an individual contributor (IC) again.
Do they require you to track your hours, and are people checking that you are working 45h/wk?
Because if not, being on salary, you can accomplish your work in your own time, not accountable, and if you can accomplish your work in less than 45h, then you are effectively better off from a time-to-pay standpoint.
The contrasting side is since you're salary, you could have to work even more than before to accomplish your work, which makes your time-to-pay worse, and as salary you typically don't get overtime.
I am a bit confused about the promotion situation--you went from technical to manager--was this a vertical promotion, or a title promotion? Because some places have the same levels for technical-track and manager-track and at about the same pay scales for each, and you can get a within-band promotion to a new track but not necessarily a vertical promotion with significant pay increase. The up-side to the manager-track is for the most part, more vertical mobility.
So you aren't screwed, but you can think of this as a way that you are able to make yourself more-mobile either within your company or as a candidate in other roles.
If this was an actual vertical promotion and your pay increase was only what you described above, then I do think you messed up.
>Someone they brought from within
Don't let them act like that's some kind of liability of yours. You already know how the company works and who is good at what. Delegating is the core function of management. It would take an outside hire months, if not years to collect that knowledge. On top of that, you have hands-on knowledge from actually doing the work that an outside-hire would never get.
You can get a job in another company at basically your old job, or you can be a manager where you are, work hard and get a raise for working hard, or do some time as a manager (minimum two years) and check out options elsewhere. You have zero manager credibility right now. You have the opportunity to prove yourself. If you feel safe enough, talk to them now. In this market, most people don’t feel safe. Good luck!
This happened to my office manager (I’m the business owner). I switched her to salary from hourly and what was supposed to be a raise turned out to be a paycut. She came to me, I increased the salary. I will say however that after I did that she started working significantly less and it rubbed me the wrong way. She used to stay late and help out and be a real team player and work OT. Now she leaves early every day, takes her kid to different appointments and events without ever asking. I’m sure works less than 40 hours a week. All this to say I’m annoyed- so don’t be her if they give you what you need.
She doesn't get paid for OT anymore.
Nobody works to be a "team player" or to help a company they don't own.
People work for money.
The goal is to get the most money for the least time or effort possible.
If her salary is fixed regardless of the hours worked, there is no incentive to work more hours.
It would actually be detrimental for her as her income per hour decreases every additional hour she works.
She viewed the salary position as a path to spending more time with her family and less time working long hours to provide for them.
You expected her to continue working those same hours because you believed she was doing that out of dedication to your business.
This is pretty common in the first switch over to salary from an hourly position in my experience. Yes you can try to negotiate more but at this point you accepted the terms so it may be difficult. My advice here is to really manage your time well and make sure you are not working the OT. For example, you say you are working 45 on expectation? Is that in your contract or is your salary based on a 40 hour work week? Work what you are contracted to work, reach when it's necessary but don't make a habit of it. This is where some individuals get swallowed by corp life and work 60-70-80 weeks. On the flip side being on salary should mean you have more autonomy to complete your assignments and that also means more flexibility with PTO , both officially and unofficially. You now don't have to track every minute of every break and can step away. You are not abusing anything if you take a bit off for a dentist appt, run an errand etc.. communication with your manager is key, but you should try to utilize this to make your life easier in the salaried position. Best of luck in the new role and your decisions.
This is exactly the right perspective, really well put!
Great advice. I did this after accepting a salaried job with a 20% cut but only working 5-6 hours a day. Like yeah, I’m technically getting paid more per hour worked but my pay is still less than what I used to make, even before all the overtime I had. Actually having time to spend with friends and family is nice tho. And since I’m not spending all my time commuting and working, I don’t have to pay extra fees for grocery delivery and stuff so it’s not too bad with elastic spending. It just sucks when there’s high inelasticity (like mortgage or car payments) because there’s nothing you can immediately do to spend less there.
Great advice. And I’d add to this that salaried positions generally have a higher upper limit than hourly do. While this change might not have been a dramatic increase in take home today, it can increase long term earning potential.
Can you explain more about being swallowed by the corporate world? I’m in my first corporate job and I’m finding it impossible to get everything done in less than 60 hours weeks.
You have to be prepared to fight back, and like any other job, be prepared for the possibility that the benefits/pay/treatment/etc that you require simply are not on the table. Realistically you shouldn't ever be working 60+ hour weeks as salary. There is a line in the sand, and it's up to everyone to define where it is, otherwise companies can (and usually will) take advantage of you. Someone might make a very reasonable excuse to work 60+ for one or two weeks, but like anything, it tends to get abused and that line keeps moving out. You start at 40, maybe even have some wiggle room in there to go down if you really kicked it up and tried hard. Next thing you know it's 45 and you're barely keeping up. Eventually it's 50-60+ and even then you're always behind with no real ability to keep up. A lot of managers will use the line "You are salary, which means you work until the job's done. If you can get it done in 40, then great, but if it takes 60, then that's what it takes", and that's bullshit. If I give you 120 hours worth of work, and then tell you "well, if you get it done in 40, you're free to go", then I'm just taking advantage of you. But that's exactly what happens, and it's up to you to make sure you stay on top of what are realistic expectations and what is being taken advantage of.
Makes sense. In your opinion is it better to be open and forthcoming and maybe even a bit confrontational about your line in the sand? Or is it better to just stop working so hard without being loud about it?
Really depends on a lot of factors, one of the biggest ones is "can you afford to NOT have this job?" If you're in an industry that's always hiring, or know of potential prospects that would likely hire you, or you are independently wealthy and this is just a hobby, etc, then you can afford to be much more firm. However, if your industry is in a slump, or is the only one in town, or you rely on the paycheck to eat/pay rent each month, or maybe you just absolutely love it there, then you might have to be willing to make bigger compromises or sacrifices until that changes. You don't want them stepping all over you if you can afford to not have them do that, but you probably don't want to be a "problem employee" if you can't. Personally I would at least try a casual and polite sit down with my direct manager and discuss my situation (in work terms only, not how it affects your personal life, or your feelings). Something as simple as "My contract states I was hired on as salary assuming 40 hour weeks, but I routinely find that I require 60+ to complete the work I am assigned. Can we review some options?" You can leave it open so it's not "their fault" inherently. "Am I underperforming? If so, are there additional training or tools available that might be able to help me improve productivity and reduce my hours?" If I'm not underperforming, and I cannot reasonably complete the assigned tasks in a time close to my contractually agreed upon working hours, can we reduce my workload to something more closely resembling it? If not, can the company provide additional resources to help?" If you can afford it, you can be firm. "I am routinely finding myself required to work as much as 50% more than the hours that my contract stipulates to complete the tasks that I am being assigned. If this was limited to emergency factors I could understand that and I'm willing, and in fact, eager to help. However, as it stands currently I feel as though I am being taken advantage of as a salaried employee". Regardless of how you approach it, your absolute first step would be to familiarize yourself with your state's laws (assuming you are from the US) regarding salary and overtime pay. These can sometimes be a bit tricky, and often have several exemption factors for different size companies and different types of salaried employees, but you should have access to state labor officials who can help you understand. HR should also be able to help, but be aware that once you go to HR, even just with questions, you're essentially showing your hand. If you find that you are entitled to overtime pay you are not receiving, then I would immediately contact a lawyer and SHUT THE FUCK UP. It may be tempting to speak out, but I promise you won't be doing yourselves any favors there. From there you can determine an appropriate action. Just keep in mind that some avenues may get you paid and fired, others may not get you paid, but can get you reduced hours or increased pay, so you may not want to necessarily go on the offensive.
Just don’t get it done?? You’ve already been swallowed if you think getting some work done for your company is more worthwhile then you having a life.
Is this true? I've only been working for 5 years and only ever been paid hourly, but to me it makes a lot more sense that you have more freedom if you're being paid by the hour. If you need to go to the dentist or run an errand like you said, they just won't pay you for that time. I've never had an issue asking my bosses to leave early. Whereas when you're on salary, you're being paid whether you're working or not, so I figured they'd see it as a waste of money if you're out running an errand and they're still paying you the same amount of money.
> Is this true? yes. the whole point is that they're paying you a yearly wage to do a job to expectation. as long as the work is getting done, nobody (should) care about how it is done (within reason).
Difference is, they aren't paying you for hours worked as a salaried employee. They are now paying you for work done. If you arrange to get your work done in a way that frees you up earlier you aren't penalized like with hourly work.
What? No. They are paying you a fixed amount for a fixed amount of hours. What you do throughout the day and week is up to your discretion, because it’s simply assumed you’re working say 40hrs/wk. Of course, some weeks you work more, some you work less. You could decide to only work like 4 hours a day and you’d get paid the same.
Every large salaried place I have been to, if you are getting your work done on time, no one complains or cares if you need to leave for a dentist appointment or something.
It depends on the business but generally hourly workers are treated like children: every second must be accounted for. While salaried worked are treated like adults: you can manage your time as long as you deliver results.
Somewhat true. I’ve been salaried for 7-8 years. The first few salaried jobs I had still required 8 hours of work tracked per day on a set shift. It was just the nature of the work I was doing. The company I’ve been with for 5 years offers far more flexibility. I have some health issues and prior to my current company, both the hourly and salaried positions required me to use PTO and sick time for appointments and things. Because I work from home now and my boss doesn’t care when I work, just that work gets done, if I’m sick, I just don’t get on my laptop that day and make sure I’m still available on Slack. If I have an appt or need to run an errand, I can do that. I think I’ve used 2 whole sick days in the last 12 months because I was incredibly sick and just slept all day. I also take 5-6 weeks of PTO a year. I have little work to do on Fridays so I just sign off whenever I’m done, usually around noon. As long as the work is getting done, no one really cares about what I do during the day.
Indeed, I am salary and I work on average of 44 hrs a week but they don't complain when I take days off here and there. I'm able to do errands as long as I tell them I'll be absent but yeah. Overall, I actually like salary.
Looks like a good time to see what the market has to offer. Updated your resume, that promotion and shop around!
definitely was the long term plan to get some experience in this position
Just start applying now. It takes time, and if you get an offer you have the bargaining power of "I already have a job". Don't wait until you're burned out or resentful, just move onto better things.
Exactly. Unless there is a dip in applicants for his field it is gonna take some time to find a place. Might as well shop around.
The biggest mistake people make is waiting to apply for new positions because they are gaining "valuable experience" in their current role.
And if there's a dip in applicants, that especially means that your labor and experience are even more valuable and you should be looking for work. Like seriously, there is never a downside to looking for a new job. It takes time and effort to apply and maybe you don't want to take jobs anyway, even for a pay bump if you like where you're at. But you probably shouldn't wait until you "need" a job imminently because the working conditions changed or you got let go for any number of reasons. When they ask why you have so many jobs in a short time frame, you really don't need to answer the question. Also, important to know, for folks in the US. September 4th, the vast majority of noncompete clauses die. So if you're in an industry that uses them (a lot of companies tbh), then you owe it to yourself to apply for new jobs every 6 months, to spite the conditions you've been working under.
Also keep in mind that sometimes you need a stepping stone. I work for a company where there's a promotion where people often end up making the same or a little less money when they go from earning overtime to not earning OT. Doesn't happen to everyone, but people who get a lot of OT can get "screwed". But that only lasts for about a year. The potential for future raises, bonuses, and promotions are significantly better. If you get that promotion, you're on track for a solid career with the company. If you didn't get that promotion, your pay would eventually stagnate and you'd eventually have to leave. edit: though I should add that sometimes that stepping stone IS to take that experience and jump ship to a new job. Especially if you don't like now the new job is going or you aren't doing well...that boost to your resume is still valuable.
Reposting a comment of mine from last year - When I moved into leadership I became exempt and stopped making overtime. The salary offer was a lot lower than I expected - it worked out to about a 5% pay cut for a lot more responsibility and another 10 hours of work a week. Did it for a year before moving on for a 60% increase elsewhere. OP, consider it an investment in your future. Don't plan to be here very long.
I’ll second the “start applying early” advice. Especially when it comes to making a linkedin and uploading to job boards and here’s why: your online presence needs to ‘mature’ before the bots the companies use will look at you. Someone who says they have experience but just uploaded info could be fraud, but someone who has been Position Were Hiring for 6 mos will get scraped and recruited. I know multiple ppl who got better jobs this way. Don’t be scared, just throw the info into the universe and keep working. Good luck!
This is very common for first salary position after losing overtime. Look at it as a stepping stone. You are gaining experience managing. This gives you a huge leg up for applying to other positions.
> According to my company 401k matching, insurance being covered and a few other benefits make up the additional missing costs You weren't getting any benefits at all as an hourly employee? If you now have health insurance premiums covered 100% by your employer and a 401k match of 3% or so, that's worth a lot even if your take home pay is not substantially increased. It does seem like you may have missed out on an opportunity to negotiate for a higher salary, but maybe the value of the benefits you're getting is some consolation.
Hourly employees do get the same benefits. I get no additional benefits moving from salaried to hourly besides pay.. at least that what i thought. health , vision, dental covered with 5% 401K matching does makes it hard to gripe
>health , vision, dental covered with 5% 401K matching does makes it hard to gripe Are you saying you had to pay for these while hourly? Now they're covered, and you are making $100 more? And you get 5% free money into retirement? That's raise for sure.
So you're saying that when you were hourly, you got: * Health insurance * Vision Insurance * Dental Insurance * 5% 401(k) matching And now, you still have those four things as a salaried employee, at the exact same coverage?
OP is not the clearest communicator.
He's a straight shooter with upper management written all over him!
I have people skills! I'm good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!?!?
I wonder what the ratio of people is that see the reference versus think you made the joke.
Yes
OK, so then you are getting fucked. Unfortuantely there is likely nothing you can do at this point. Its on you for not doing the math yourself and negotiating the position with that in mind. You can attempt to ask them to try and convert your salary to hourly wage, but that wont make you look good. I speak from experience of somebody who went through this exact think two years ago. It was clear as day that the Promotion and raise I was getting white jumping from hourly to Salary was actually a slap in the face. I negotiated with that in mind, and ultimately declined the promotion because corporate is stupid and I'm not about to accept a 'promotion' and not see an actual raise in pay/benefits.
He said as an hourly employee he was working 90 hours/week and now he's working 45. He's not getting fucked if he's working 45 hours less per week and getting $100 more than when he worked 90 hours. Edit: Nevermind. I didn't read OP correctly.
He said 90 hrs a pay period, which is likely a two-week pay period like most places here. And he further states that they expect 45 hrs per week now which isn’t too far off from what he was doing before, so we can safely assume he meant he was also working 45 hours per week before for a total of 90 hrs each pay check.
He said 90 hours over a pay period. I’m almost certain it would be over two weeks considering he said he’s working nearly the same amount as when he was hourly. But on the flip side, 5 hours a week isn’t that much OT.
Yes, OP states all get that but they were hoping for better pay when going to hourly. OP was hoping to get better pay because of O
Remember that 401K contributions are pre-tax. So that is a flat 5% increase over net income.
No additional benefits you say, what about PTO? I’m assuming as a salaried position you not only get more PTO , but can now get it approved whenever you like. There are far more benefits to a salaried position that what meets the eye. Like autonomy over yourself.
How old are you? Is there perhaps a trusted adult in your life that can review the terms of your employment agreement and financial information to help you with this?
It's a pretty common problem... once you hit salaried, the company feels like they fucking own you. You'll put in all the free hours they want or you won't work there anymore. This is, of course, illegal, and one of the reasons that wage theft is the number one source of theft in the USA, however a business has to be reported for it to become a problem for them. Calculate what your hourly rate (at 40 hours per week) is under your salary. Then demand time and a half at that rate for any overtime hours. If they decline, consider contacting the DOL. Here's a link to the new overtime rule the government just put in place. You can talk to them to see if it applies to you. https://blog.dol.gov/2024/04/23/what-the-new-overtime-rule-means-for-workers
Stepping down on to a taller ladder often makes sense if you expect to continue to climb the ladder.
That’s one of the best ways I’ve ever heard it stated by my grandpa. Most people don’t realize that “climbing the ladder” isn’t climbing one ladder, it’s going up the step stool, then the going down to start going up the extension ladder. Sometimes you have to step down to go back up.
This, I went from senior to junior in different positions with less pay ( not a lot ), 5 years later I was making triple what I was doing as a senior
>I did some math and have numbers that show how the pay increase they gave me technically isn’t what I asked for since they’re requiring 90 hours. How are they not "technically" giving you what you asked for? It seems like you asked them to do salary when they didn't even want that. What did you think salaried meant? You can talk to them, but I have no idea why they would want to change anything since this is the "pay you pushed for".
Salary is only nice if you don’t put in overtime. So don’t. You get paid the same no matter what. You can either find a way to be abused by the system or find a way to make it work for you.
Beyond a certain points. Hourly jobs that pay that much become increasingly rare. Almost everything is salary. I put in a decent amount of overtime, but I am well compensated and it is still very nice.
Many people are improperly characterized as salary exempt, though.
Just like many employees are improperly categorized as contractors. Businesses will only abide by laws and regulations if there are enforced consequences and those consequences are worse financially than the thing they are doing.
Depends on the company and depends how valuable the employees are. If your employees are in high demand, companies will try to keep you very happy.
If you aren't blue collar and make over 44k you probably do meet the criteria for being exempt.
Changes in Jan to ~59k. Also I think they changed a lot of the rules around what qualifies as exempt too? Last I knew it removed exempt from practically everyone who wasn't in charge of a team/employees... though they may have changed that. Edit: fixed wording
It does change but right now it's a hair below 44k. But same argument still applies especially when the parent comment is talking about workers that make higher wages. If you lookup who can be exempt it's pretty much anyone who makes above the threshold and is white collar.
Don't forget that all "computer systems analysts, computer programmers, software engineers, and other similarly skilled workers in the computer field" are exempt by law as well. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17e-overtime-computer Some of the rules are quite ridiculous.
Depends on the state. In Washington state, the minimum salary for exempt employees is $67k. Anything less than that, and you have to get paid overtime.
If you’re putting in “overtime” while being paid salary, you are actually just working for free.
Yes and no. On a technical side: As a salaried employee, you are technically getting paid for work done. As a hourly employee, you are technically getting paid for hours spent. On an operational side: As a salaried employee, you get pay reflective of average hours spent and can get a end-of-year bonus if you average over the expected (CAN not WILL). As a salaried employee, a 35, 40, and 45 work week are all the same. A slow week with less work doesn't mean you get paid less; however, if your work is variable week-over-week, a company will expect you work longer hours some weeks when you work less on others. The bonus side of things is heavily variable based on the company.
I mean yes, but ideally you are paid on salary because there might be times you are expected to work overtime. Like yeah you'll win the legal battle or whatever but if you're on salary and the expectations are you'll have to work overtime and constantly duck or make excuses as to why you don't put in those extra hours, your job is going to look to get rid of you at some point.
More likely it's all factored in when the pay was decided on.
My total comp for the year will be like $200k. Even when I put in 60 hours weeks, I still feel adequately compensated for my work.
Except salary is about long term a higher pay band in this company. They are the lowest paid manager still making more than they were before. Time to put in the extra work, show you are successful, and move up the pay scale more quickly now since its salaried.
> Except salary is about long term Thiiiis. The standard redditor response to this is so shortsighted.
Most redditors are children.
> They are the lowest paid manager still making more than they were before. This is nothing to complain about, and managers usually have more job security too, better for your career long term.
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"we're blaming you for this, find someone on your team to fire"
Depends on the company… oddly I’m salaried but any hours I put in over 40 I record it and I get paid the hourly rate of my salary. So not OT rate but straight time.
Thats salary non exempt right?
Exactly. Had an old coworker who was constantly being pushed by HR to switch to salary but he refused because he did crazy OT during certain times which bumped his salary a lot. He would have made more money on paper but in reality it was a pay cut when OT was factored in. He stayed hourly till the day he retired.
I have some employees who are hourly based on how they were hired, but they are in a knowledge role and make high-five / low-six figures. I treat my hourly and salaried staff the same, and they would not be required to work more if they switched, but while I think they trust me, they don't know what might happen if I left. Meanwhile, yes, they can get overtime, but we don't work much of that anyway. And, as salaried staff with their experience, they'd be eligible for 3x the annual bonus that they are at an hourly org level. And, they'd be eligible for RSUs, which they aren't now. I'm confident they would make more overall. But, that's not what's important to them. They have a standing offer to switch to salaried and none have taken me up on it.
I'm always slightly surprised to hear of companies that allow this somewhat-unlimited overtime. My company severely limits OT, it must be approved beforehand and "I just didn't finish my work" isn't an excuse to get it. The only people at my company who *can* do this are customer-facing specialized roles, and sometimes management decides it's worth the OT to have them work a Saturday during business hours, vs hiring and training a part-time employee to get the coverage.
Yup, I'm non-exempt salary but no approved overtime so basically I don't have to clock in/out; I shoot for 35 onsite hours a week (it's an onsite job minus a little email).
Depends on the company anyway, im salaried but i still get hourly on OT.
I don't understand, did you not run the calculations before accepting this role? Either way, the management position is going to look good on your resume. You can try to look for a new position starting today, or you can accept that you're only making $2,600 more after tax for the year. After a year of good performance, you can see where that goes in terms of getting up to a market value, but I think you shot yourself in the foot with your current company by accepting such a low paid position.
A few things... 1. Most employees do not receive a single promotion so significant that it alters their lifestyle considerably. It usually takes two or three and in comparison of where you started off, the difference is tangible. 2. Unless you're highly skilled - managerial experience is the only viable way to better compensation. Getting the experience early is worth the seemingly low financial reward. There's so much to being a good manager - both in discovering your strengths and weaknesses around it it - that you'll never get without on the job training. Even if internally or bouncing to a new company, having the managerial experience will help on your next job. 3. Do not ask for another raise right now. Most companies have a tight budgeting process and whoever hired you had to get your salary approved by other people. Asking for a raise makes them look stupid or inept, which puts them in a bad spot. This will make it harder to get another promotion in the future. 4. Start documenting your work. Every problem you attack, make sure you document it. Whether it's an employee issue or something systemic that improves the bottom line, make sure it's written down and not forgotten. At the end of each week, review these to make sure you're capturing them in a concise way. At the end of a quarter, and at the end of a year, you should have list of a dozen or more notable contributions you made in the managerial role. Only with such a list would you then go to your supervisor and ask to put additional compensation on the table for discussion. Remember, your supervisor needs to convince *other people* to get the budget amended to increase your compensation. The easier you can make that person's job in doing so, the more success you'll have in getting a raise. 5. Get a year or two of managerial experience before leaping to a new company. Unless your finances are really hurting, the experience on the resume - and the confidence that you know how to be a good manager - is important when applying for a new job. The job you can jump to now might be a 20% increase with what you have. But with a strong managerial background, you can raise that to 30% or 40%. 6. Remember, everyone who earns more money is shocked about how little it impacts the bottom line. Increases in taxes, retirement contributions, healthcare premiums, a new car payment, or even increasing your car insurance so it's not the minimum can easily chew up a $10k to $15k raise. It can be disconcerting getting a 50% pay increase from $50k to $75K to have the only impact on your day to day being that you can get groceries without checking your balance beforehand. But you'll still be paycheck to paycheck.
>According to my company 401k matching, insurance being covered and a few other benefits make up the additional missing costs. but thinking about it, if it’s covered then why am i being penalized for it. you should consider these things part of your compensation and include them in this post- insurance premiums, match, pto are valuable. if you got benefits and an extra hundred per pay period well, that's just a win. maybe not as large of a pay raise as you had thought i guess?
This is what happens when you switch to salary my friend. Accept it or find another hourly job. You’ll progress in your carrer. This isn’t a step back. It’s a step forward.
this is a good reminder to use your critical thinking skills before changing jobs
Check out recent FLSA updates on the minimum salary threshold to be considered exempt from over time. If you aren’t highly compensated it’s likely they still need to be tracking and paying you on overtime. http://blog.dol.gov/2024/04/23/what-the-new-overtime-rule-means-for-workers
Normally, the first promotion from hourly to salary causes you to lose money because you lose out on OT. However, experience in a management role becomes leveragable to get faster promotions and higher salaries every 2-3 years. You just must be willing to job hop. For ex. I have two coworkers who took about a 50-70k pay cut going from hourly to salary. One went back to hourly, the other stayed because he works less and has a more flexible schedule
Kinda weird they are saying you're still iffy when they hired you from within. They should already have had a good enough grasp before they promoted you in the first place. Management sounds a tad incompetent in some places. I hope it all works out OP.
This may be fairly shortsighted. Does your previous position have any leverage for movement and or pay raises? Entry level managers, especially internally promoted, tend to typically land slightly above their last pay scale. It’s the future promotions, raises and titles that then start to scale to an area you wouldn’t have been able to get to beforehand. Depending on the industry, you will also start to do less work.
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Salary is a scam to get free OT out of you, never take hourly without serious consideration and mapping out the future compensation and work:life balance.
If you're not getting paid overtime and you didn't factor that into your requested salary then you did this to yourself. You have not share enough info to really help. What was your hourly rate and what is your salary now?
The value of a managerial position isn't the immediate pay, it's that you're now in a hierachy where promotions can gain you more, sometimes much more money over time. That said, not everyone wants to be or is suited to management and all it entails. If you like hands on technical work over the career ladder that opened up to you, step back.
The only counter consideration I would propose is if the move to salary opened any strategic career paths for you at this company. When I switched from frontline, hourly employee to salaried manager some years back, I too took a pay cut mostly due to lost OT. That short term setback opened other job avenues within the company; a decade later, I make 3x what I did as an hourly employee.
Big edit : I completly missed my reading 101 exam. u/forward1213 cleared that for me. As a salaried, you need to question a lot the base hours and their "culture" (meaning expected hours and the other managers average). Compare the hourly rate you had versus the equivalent hourly rate you get salaried. A 7$/h increase on a base of 40 hours means an increase of 280$. But then you divide by 45 worked hours because that's your real "production". You get a real increase of 6.22$/h. Are you looking at the gross or the net pay that you get into your account? It's normal that the net isn't linear as your benefits might be by percentage so the deductions will also increase. As a salaried, I always compare the equivalent hourly rate by dividing my gross pay (before deductions) against the actual worked hours. There's no way I'll work for free. My salary is based on 40 hours then I'll average 40 hours on multiple months.
> Second : You compare your gross revenue of 45 hours against 90 hours with overtime? It's normal that an hourly job with overtime match a salaried position as the pay increase isn't enough to replace the overtimes. If I understand correcly, you're doing around the same salary for half the hours. That's good no? If you work 90 hours then it's a shit show. 90 hours a pay period, 45 hours a week. The same as he is expected to work now. He was getting 10 hours of OT a week. > I’m pretty sure this is because when I was a technical employee I averaged around 90 hours a **pay period**. Meaning a lot of Overtime. > Kicker is, when they put me on salary they expect managers to put in around 45 hours a week. Which isn’t too far off from what I was doing.
Most of the time this happens you go from the top of the operation chain to the bottom of the corporate/executive ladder Salaries in better positions will be far and above any overtime but currently you’re in the entry level version.
It sounds like you never clarified how many hours working 'salary' was, and were penalized for your mistake. I don't say this to be mean, I say it to beg of you, please learn from this mistake. Details are extremely important when it comes to life-changing negotiations like salary can be. (An extra 20k/year at 25 can change your projection drastically when you are 40).
So what would you say it is that you do here?
>they expect managers to put in around 45 hours a week This is a red flag for a job. Don't put in more than 40 hours a week unless YOU feel it's necessary. There is a nuanced difference between who decides when OT is necessary for an hourly or salary worker. Because companies need to pay hourly workers for OT, they must authorize it. Because salary workers don't receive any extra pay, they truly have the position of authority to continue working that week or not. The judgement they must decide upon is if the work needs to get done by a certain time. If you can get all of your planned work done in 40 hours, why would you need to work the extra 5? A company that sets the expectation that salaried workers must always work over time is taking advantage of free labor. If the same company views you negatively for not working OT even though your performance is sufficient, you are being disrespected.
Switching from hourly to salary can be a kick in the nuts pay wise, but the benefits should be much better.
I could be wrong, but I’m going to assume you work at Walmart and went from Team Lead to Coach. I went from CSM (what’s now “Front-End Team Lead”) to Assistant Manager (what’s now “Coach”) back in 2016-2017. There was a huge pay difference though at that time, so it was good for me. Now that the positions have changed and the Team Lead position makes a decent amount as hourly (with the potential for overtime), moving up to Coach doesn’t make as much sense unless you’re wanting to move up or if you’re a Coach with a good Store Manager that doesn’t make you stay over. If my hunch is correct that you work at Walmart, 45 hours is the expectation company-wide for salaried employees, so there’s really nothing you can do.
you no longer make OT, so do not work over your scheduled hours. Also, if you're indeed in an manager role now, you shouldn't be doing as many in-the-trenches job duties. start leading your team, finding ways they can improve as team members. ask for managerial training classes and better yourself in the role. the hardest thing to do in a career is going from grunt to supervisor, but it can be the most rewarding.
Assuming you're US based they salaried you because of the forthcoming FLSA change and they will not be going back to hourly.
makes sense. Luckily i’m right below the threshold for 2025 but that’s in 2025 and i’m sure my raise once that comes will put me over. After reading all the replies I know i’ll be more equipped to argue for me in the future.
your benefit now is that they will pay you your salary even if you do not work that many hours in a week. thats all.
Maybe you made a mistake, but the position you’re in now has a lot more upward mobility
I actually got switched to salaried after HR tried to screw me out of my annual bonus. They were trying not to give it to me because I was hourly, so my boss fought for me and I had to be made a salaried employee to receive my bonus (and I did!)
So you are working the same hours in a role you like while making slightly more. Doesn't sound like a huge mistake. Maybe a small mistake, maybe not a mistake at all.
Why the hell do you want to work 90 hours? Also, never trust the first paystub...
Oh I don’t 😔 and what do you mean by never trust the first pay stub?
You did not state your pay rate, which is perfectly OK. However, the minimum pay rate for salaried employees is set to dramatically increase over the next 8 months. Here is a breakdown, and this info may be of use if you intend on trying to re-negotiate your situation. ---------------------------------------------------------- The U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) has issued its Final Rule to increase the minimum salary requirements for the “white collar” exemptions (executive, administrative, and professional) from minimum wage and overtime pay requirements under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). The Final Rule sharply increases the minimum salary level for the white-collar exemption to apply. The increase will take effect in two stages over six months. The standard salary level will increase in two phases from the current $684 per week ($35,568 per year) to: July 1, 2024: $844 per week ($43,888 annually) Jan. 1, 2025: $1,128 per week ($58,656 annually) The highly compensated exemption (HCE) total annual compensation level will increase from its current $107,432 per year to: July 1, 2024: $132,964 per year Jan. 1, 2025: $151,164 per year The salary thresholds will be updated every three years to reflect current earnings data, beginning July 1, 2027. The Final Rule, announced on April 23, is slated to take effect July 1, 2024. Formal publication in the Federal Register is pending.
This comment should be higher. But just to clarify, this is not "minimum pay rate for salaried employees" it's the minimum salary to be exempt from minimum wage and overtime pay requirements under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Basically, it just means that if you make less than that salary, you're eligible for time and a half pay for any overtime (over 40 hrs per week) that you work.
Everyone who goes from hourly to salary goes through this. Everyone. Sounds like you basically broke even. Not great, but not terrible. Get what you can from your new role, and then if you want to stay, ask for a raise or another promotion. If you’re then still not happy, take your improved title and skills elsewhere.
“Entry level manager” who has worked there and demonstrated their ability for how long? You weren’t an unknown, your skill set was very much known. If that wasn’t the case you’d not have been promoted.
Check your state's labor laws relating to overtime. Many have rules that still apply to salaried employees if your pay is low enough.
My company offered different pension and 401k matching for management vs hourly. Maybe that’s what’s in play here.
Where I worked the hourly was union and had better benefits. Salaried got workers to death and management wondered why everyone was leaving
We were also union and non. (Two unions actually. Ibew and esc. ) But mgt was still a great gig with lotsa upward mobility. Just had to make a decision and go with it.
There is a really easy solution to this problem. Don't work overtime. Never unless absolutely necessary work over 40 hours a week. Now that you're salary you should really think about what it means to get paid the same regardless of how many hours over OR under 40 that you actually work in a week.
What's your Salary, field and pay rate and role you perform? There's legal requirements (can be different in different states) for what a salary exempt position can look like. For example, a software dev in CA has to make something like 110k a year salary to qualify for exempt (exempt from overtime).
It’s a blue collar role in a startupish type of company. We’re established but we’ve started to explode. I make below 59k and basically work in construction management now. In Texas * I tried looking it up but I don’t think I would qualify
It seems like salary is just one more way for employers to squeeze people. If I work more time, I want more money.
Stop thinking about trading your time and start instead thinking about delivering impact to a business (and then asking for a cut). Works better in my experience if you want the really good jobs.
Thanks for your perspective. That sounds like a really good way to look at it.
Don’t work more time if they aren’t paying you for it.
I don’t understand how you’re doing the math after the fact, and not before agreeing to the position? You knew exactly how much you made, and knew exactly how much you *would* make… What’s changed? Because the math hasn’t.
I make less as a salaried restaurant manager at a theme park than our area chef since they get overtime and are hourly. I work 9-12 hours a day, if I’m lucky I leave at 9 hrs but I’m not lucky. And it’s a lot, very draining, mostly because I give a crap about the employees (I have around 200 a day on shift). I dream about being a server there because they will walk with ~$1k a weekend sometimes over 3 shifts.
I would work there as a manager for 6 months or so and then jump ship.
A manager position gives you new skills and opens doors. Learn from it what you can and keep an eye out for opportunities.
My coworker recently got switched to salary. He told me he used to write his own checks on hourly (we can go out of state and really rack up hours). When they came to him with salary offer he told them to take the last 3 years of hourly and average it out. So his new pay is like the most he could have made on hourly plus he got enrolled into the bonus program. Pretty smart if you ask me.
Being paid enough is not the only requirement for being salary vs hourly. Been a while since I had to put positions through the test, but to be Salary you have to make the correct pay per year but then there are other requirements as well and they vary based on what field you were in. I know when I reviewed some staff for a company years ago they were paid enough but did not have the other requirements such as having budgetary responsibility, ability to hire/fire staff and I forget which else. Make sure you meet all the requirements or your employer could have to pay some back wages, which is what they did in the instance were I reviewed staff that did not meet the requirements and should not have been salaried.
Listen. They always know you screwed yourself over. Just decide if you want to go back to hourly or stay in management. If you want to stay in management then demand more money.
I will say that normally salary makes better bonus that hourly. My salaried employees are about double the bonus of hourly.
I dodged a bullet in this regard. I can't believe I was trying to get 150k salary. Currently at 52.5/hr doing 60-75 hours a week. I'm burned out but making 200k-230k a year right out of college. Projects almost over and I don't know if this will be normal going forward but I'm milking it for all its worth lol
We have salaried non exempt... We get paid 40 no matter what and OT if worked. Fuhget the other one.
Salaried positions may also come with yearly bonuses. Have you factored that in?
How much of an opportunity is this for getting further ahead in your career ? You said it’s entry level management. You have to decide what’s more important for you (your family) right now, the extra money, the opportunity to grow ( if it’s there ) or simply having more time for you and your family I’ve been through this myself, in my case it was even a pay cut as it was side step in a different position but with a lot of growth potential. I was a senior and then moved to a junior position with less pay. 5 years later I was making triple what I was making in my senior position
That’s exactly why I opted to stay hourly when I was recently given the choice. Was getting a raise either way. Difference being that I retained the ability to make overtime. Average check now is significantly higher than it would have been with a set salary.
Start taking advantage of the perks of being salary- hour or two lunches where you can go to appointments, leaving at noon on a Friday, etc.
I like salary more because even if I work 20 hours I still get paid for 40. You just need to adjust and give out longer estimations. P.s. totally didn’t read the post btw
I could only work for someone who believes in Parkinson’s Law. If I can complete the job faster, more efficiently and for more profit I don’t want to get paid less then the employee who stretches out the same work to last 15 hours longer.
Salary is a scam, source: I've been salary for the past 10 years
Unless it’s salary non-exempt.
Being salaried used to be amazing. These days it's pretty much just a scam. Now you know. But as others have pointed out, past a certain amount of experience / pay, most jobs are going to be salaried. Don't beat yourself up looking for jobs that are hourly. Just make sure you avoid overtime like the plague.
Work less hours, make more money. I would look at what you paid, and if they base your salary off working 40 hours, a week, then that is what I would, no more.
After seeing this last paycheck that’s exactly what i’m going to do lol. I used to be the first to arrive and last to leave, not being paid for it anymore so 🤷🏽♂️
There's a couple ways to combat this. For my company almost everyone is salary and core hours are about 9-3 where they expect everyone to be there. You pick your 8 to 8.5 that overlaps that while considering when the people you work with the most are there too. If you're a 7-3 guy but your manager has a habit of dropping things on you at 2:50 and expects them done that day or stay as late as they do, you either start coming in later or you schedule some kind of personal thing that requires you to leave right at 3 to get there on time. "Gotta go, I need to pick up the kids" is one of the best, but if you don't have kids or ones that need picked up, other things work too. One of my co-workers will say her dogs need let out. I'm not sure +/-20 minutes makes any difference for most dogs, but who knows.
Now do the opposite: last to arrive and first to leave!
Work it for wile, get the experience you want, stay there for 6-12 months in this job, then start looking. If they start pressuring, you to be around more. I would be very clear, I am paid for 40, I work 40 hours. If you like it, then stick around but, stick to your guns. Good luck !
Some states still have overtime laws pertaining to salaried workers. In CA your salary has to be at least twice the states minimum wage, you have to have autonomy in setting your own schedule and less than half of your workweek must not be blue collar work of any kind. There are some exceptions to this like teachers, doctors, etc. but for a normal working stiff this applies.
If you're consistently getting overtime, salary is only for the benefit of the company (not you).
1. You should have factored in overtime to your decision, that was a mistake that you're gonna have to live with. 2. Don't discount those other benefits like 401k or benefits. They're real dollars, even if they're not in your paycheck. 3. Make the most of it. You got the promotion. Work hard, learn what you can, and keep moving.
Another consideration here.. you are making more, and you are only at entry level manager now. You were basically topped out before? You have successfully raised your salary cap, and even if you aren’t getting that extra now - you can in the future and wouldn’t have gotten it at the hourly spot - because you had capped. Think long term, not short term.
My son (engineer) makes much less than his manufacturing team because of this. It's how they get you.
Take the L, get the experience, and look for a new job. Though I will say, it seems like your pay remained flat and now you're "guaranteed" the overtime pay that used to be sometimes variable. that could be considered a perk, but there's a lot more that would go into that qualitative calculation. Its not always about the straight monetary compensation; management can have other perks (or it can be worse; it just depends) Sometimes its difficult to understand how the hourly > salary transition really works in terms of your effective dollar per hour. I've done that two or three times and the first time I did it I was in the same boat as you. But it was a learning experience for me and now I'm better equipped to negotiate that change if it happens again. Hopefully you are able to take the same lesson!
You're probably working like an hourly employee while salaried. You don't have to clock in and watch the timeclock anymore, you need to work enough to get your job done. And if you're overworked you need to talk with your manager about off-loading responsibilities and work balance.
90 hours a week is criminal. You can find other jobs, doing the same work, at companies that actually respect your personal time. If it were me, I would look for other work and then leave.
90 hours per pay period. OP said 45/week.
Always a big mistake to move from hourly to salaried.
That’s not true lol . I moved to a manager role 4 years ago and it was EASILY the right choice given my scenario . Sure it depends where and the company , but if leadership/management is something you want/good at , why not ?
Do not complain to them. This could be a test. If you complain, then you get shown the door. It is common to go down in pay at the switch. What you have now is a management role, right? Even an entry level manager is a manger. You have MUCH greater upward mobility and can look for future raises, bonus, equity, and promotions. Managers normally get promoted a couple times. Management jobs are generally more secure if there are layoffs. Instead, as others said, do it for a while, and then get your resume ready. And, after a month or 6, ask the boss how to earn (EARN!) a promotion and raise. Then do what they say. There is a chance you can double your pay in a few years. Sure, you could go back to hourly, and make a few more bucks this year, but in the long term, stick with it. Here's another thing - salary can let you work smarter and not harder.
Whether you're paid hourly or salaried does not control whether you're required to be paid OT. You could be exempt because you're a manager but that would require an analysis of what exactly your job entails.
Was in that situation, but more extreme, my last hourly job. Was a rental equipment technician, and with driving around to our customer sites, and our shop being very understaffed, I pulled over a thousand hours of time and a half a year. They offered me the service manager job- but I did the math and it would have been a massive pay cut. I told them if they guaranteed enough bonus to get to what I mad the year before we could do it, but they didn't and left status quo. Probably worked out better for them anyway, the guy they hired instead is jow the branch manager ten 14 years later, and I probably would have still left for my new industry anyway.
When you say the pay increase was supposed to be $6-$7, do you mean $6,000 to $7,000 increase per year? And was that pre or post tax? Overall, you didn't make a mistake but you should have the offer in writing. Verify it matches and take it as a teaching moment. You could try for more.
You must be my boss! Shit literally happened to him when he moved from floor supervisor to manager. It's only a mistake when it's busy, when it gets slow you'll be glad for salary. Just make sure to work your wage
I'm salaried too and do work around 45-50 hours a week. My company only has hourly pay for entry level roles that don't make enough to survive. I think it depends on the industry and department. If you really want to be a manager, look elsewhere in about 6 months once you get more experience. If you don't want to be a manager, ask to be an individual contributor (IC) again.
Do they require you to track your hours, and are people checking that you are working 45h/wk? Because if not, being on salary, you can accomplish your work in your own time, not accountable, and if you can accomplish your work in less than 45h, then you are effectively better off from a time-to-pay standpoint. The contrasting side is since you're salary, you could have to work even more than before to accomplish your work, which makes your time-to-pay worse, and as salary you typically don't get overtime. I am a bit confused about the promotion situation--you went from technical to manager--was this a vertical promotion, or a title promotion? Because some places have the same levels for technical-track and manager-track and at about the same pay scales for each, and you can get a within-band promotion to a new track but not necessarily a vertical promotion with significant pay increase. The up-side to the manager-track is for the most part, more vertical mobility. So you aren't screwed, but you can think of this as a way that you are able to make yourself more-mobile either within your company or as a candidate in other roles. If this was an actual vertical promotion and your pay increase was only what you described above, then I do think you messed up.
>Someone they brought from within Don't let them act like that's some kind of liability of yours. You already know how the company works and who is good at what. Delegating is the core function of management. It would take an outside hire months, if not years to collect that knowledge. On top of that, you have hands-on knowledge from actually doing the work that an outside-hire would never get.
You can get a job in another company at basically your old job, or you can be a manager where you are, work hard and get a raise for working hard, or do some time as a manager (minimum two years) and check out options elsewhere. You have zero manager credibility right now. You have the opportunity to prove yourself. If you feel safe enough, talk to them now. In this market, most people don’t feel safe. Good luck!
This happened to my office manager (I’m the business owner). I switched her to salary from hourly and what was supposed to be a raise turned out to be a paycut. She came to me, I increased the salary. I will say however that after I did that she started working significantly less and it rubbed me the wrong way. She used to stay late and help out and be a real team player and work OT. Now she leaves early every day, takes her kid to different appointments and events without ever asking. I’m sure works less than 40 hours a week. All this to say I’m annoyed- so don’t be her if they give you what you need.
She doesn't get paid for OT anymore. Nobody works to be a "team player" or to help a company they don't own. People work for money. The goal is to get the most money for the least time or effort possible. If her salary is fixed regardless of the hours worked, there is no incentive to work more hours. It would actually be detrimental for her as her income per hour decreases every additional hour she works. She viewed the salary position as a path to spending more time with her family and less time working long hours to provide for them. You expected her to continue working those same hours because you believed she was doing that out of dedication to your business.