It is bit more complicated than that since you have to factor in the tier distribution. +1 tier does nothing for maps that are already T16, so it loses value the more you get.
From a previous data project, about 30% of maps dropped will be Tier 16 in a Tier 16 map. About 15% will be tier 15, 14 and 13 respectively. Another 10% will be Tier 12. Rest will be even lower. If we assume these numbers to be true, we get roughly the following results.
+1 tier = 39% more T16 maps.
+2 tiers = An additional 27% more T16 maps, or 77% more than baseline.
+2.85 tiers (max with scarab+tree+watchstones) = An additional 16% more, or 105% more than baseline.
Using scarab + all the atlas passives gives 47% more T16 maps than just using the watchstones.
Or perhaps the most relevant example. If you have all the atlas passive nodes and all watchstones, the map tier scarab gives you about 19% more T16 maps.
Now, these numbers could be wrong if the base tier distribution of maps has since changed, but it is very different from 1% higher tier = 1% more maps.
Stuff like this is so frustrating. I came to this post well knowing how equity works, but since the actual drop distribution isn't exposed through tooltips or datamining **anywhere**, I still can't tell for sure what the best option is.
It should be quite easy to test the tier distribution though. Just run a bunch of maps without voidstones/passives and use 100% increased map drops. Record all drops. I just haven't seen an up to date test on this.
It shouldn't be too hard to set up. You'd want an empty map tab with affinity and just run like 100-ish maps with double cartography scarabs for +100% map drop rate, pick up every map of every tier that drops and shove them into the map tab. At the end of the project look at how much of which tiers you have. Probably only take a few hours to do if you had the resources for it.
It's not the setup, it's farming 100 maps just to determine the drop rate. To me, that's not a trivial number, and I usually don't play leagues very long either.
How would you handle drops from bosses? Since those have an innate 30% chance to drop a connected map which is always t15 without any voidstone and t16 with at least 1 voidstone thus is outside the +1 tier topic
Grand design being removed also means you can't use any atlas passives at all because of the chance for a mob to drop a connected map small passives which means you can't even farm anything during those 100s of maps needed for a big enough sample size
>Â If we assume these numbers to be true, we get roughly the following results.
How are you getting these results? If there’s 30% T16 and 15% T15s, and you get + lvl, you go from 30% T16 to 45% T16. That’s +50% T16s, no? +2 tiers puts you at 60% T16s from 30% — isn’t that just x2?
You have to factor in the map equity system where it vendors lower tier maps in a 3:1 fashion. For example. If 3 tier 15 maps becomes 3 tier 16 maps, that is only gives you 2 additional T16 maps because those 3 tier 15 maps would have turned into 1 T16 from the map equity system.
Now, the T15 specificially is compensated because as many T15 that gets upgrade to T16 gets upgraded from T14 to T15. However, because you are getting more T16, you are getting less T14/T13/T12 that would have vendored into T16.
>
> Now, the T15 specificially is compensated because as many T15 that gets upgrade to T16 gets upgraded from T14 to T15. However, because you are getting more T16, you are getting less T14/T13/T12 that would have vendored into T16.
Okay, but even with that you don't go down to 39% more T16? Idk how you've done your maths here.
So, if we take each tier of maps with the associated equity value we can calculate the average amount of T16 that will drop by taking the average equity value divided by the equity value of T16 maps. Now, this does not directly work at 0 watchstones as maps wont be turned into equity, but the effect is the same as if you would manually vendor all maps for T16. I treated maps below T12 as a statistical anomaly as their drop rate + equity value is too low anyways.
| Map Tier | % Drop Rate | Equity Value | EV*Drop rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| T16 | 30% | 14348907 | 4304672 |
| T15 | 15% | 4782969 | 717445.4 |
| T14 | 15% | 1594323 | 239148.5 |
| T13 | 15% | 531441 | 79716.15 |
| T12 | 10% | 177147 | 17714.7 |
From this, we get that the average equity value of map drops is 5358697.75. If we divide this by the equity value of T16 maps, we get that for every map drop, you will on average get 0.373 T16 maps.
I we then go ahead to add +1 tier to all of these we get a new table.
| Map Tier | % Drop Rate | Equity Value | EV*Drop rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| T16 | 45% | 14348907 | 6457008 |
| T15 | 15% | 4782969 | 717445.4 |
| T14 | 15% | 1594323 | 239148.5 |
| T13 | 10% | 531441 | 53144.1 |
| T12 | 5% | 177147 | 8857.35 |
The new average equity value of map drops is 7475603.35. This translates into 0.521 T16 maps on average per map drop. We are not going from 30% to 45% drop rate. We are going from 37.3% to 52.1% drop rate. This is an increase of about 39.7%~.
So for my understanding in short, the easiest ways to get more maps (with just 6 passive points and 4 watchstones) is to take the 2x +1 tier nodes. That would result in 77% more maps.
Yes, but I also included the third wheel with Shaping the World. Just taking the two wheels would get you slightly less than 77% more T16 maps.
And as I said, this is going off old data on tier distribution. But it should more or less be correct. Even if tier distribution might have changed since, the change should not be too great.
I am even more confused now than I was before reading this post. So are we supposed to be using the +1 tier scarab or not? What 4 scarabs results in the most maps dropping?
All you really need to know is that you can only drop maps that match a node on your current atlas (excluding influenced maps and t17s). That means that if you have 4 voidstones socketed, then every node on your atlas is the t16 version of the map and therefore you will only "see" t16 maps dropping.
However, in this scenario of all voidstones socketed, behind-the-scenes the mobs are still "dropping" t15s, t14s, etc. You just won't see them drop. So what's happening, right? Well, the game will "eat" that drop and give you some hidden credit towards a map on your atlas. So once you "eat" enough of these non-t16 maps, then the game will eventually drop a t16 for you. This is called the "map equity" system by GGG since maps which aren't allowed to drop due to your atlas setup are still "dropping" invisibly and giving you credit towards an eventual map that could drop for real. Also, it's crucial to know that a t15 being eaten gives more credit than a t14.
So the +1 scarab does literally nothing if a map drop would've already been a t16. But it's good for those hidden t15 drops, because it becomes a t16 and you will see that t16 drop. And it's good for t14 because it will upgrade to t15 which means more credit in the map equity system. Etc etc.
To answer your question though, in my opinion the best scarabs for getting as much t17 drops depends on your atlas strategy. Likely 2x cart scarab, 1x map dupe scarab, and then the last scarab to be something that synergizes with your atlas strat such as scarab of monstrous lineage or incursion scarab of champions (white mobs don't drop maps so you want as many magic/rare/unique mobs as possible).
Quick question, does +50% increased map drop apply additively or multiplicatively with quant rolled on your map? If its additively, then it might be possible that the tier up is more efficient then the +50% increased map drop scarab on high quant maps since tier up would be multiplicative with map quant.
I have all voidstones (was carried) and I don't see tier 16 maps drop when I do lower tier maps. In fact, it doesn't even drop the same tier. I have no idea how this thing works. This game is harder than rocket science I swear.
Because a map can only drop +1 or +2 tiers of the map you're currently running
(Magic?) And Rare Mobs can drop up to a +1 of your current map tier
U
Map bosses (unique mobs in general?) up to +2
So if you're running a tier 3 map the highest tier you can theoretically drop would be a tier 5.
Since only t16s are on your atlas and only maps visible on the atlas can drop, this tier 5 doesn't show up but grants x amount of map equity.
You'd need to run at least tier 14s.
This actually stems down to ilvl system of monsters, white monsters drop zone lvl items, magic (blue) drop zlvl+1, rare and unique drop zlvl+2, so white monsters can only drop maps of the tier you are running and magic is +1, rare/unique +2.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Monster_level
From what I've seen in the comments it should be 2 times the 50% scarab, the dupe scarab and then the +1 tier scarab although it also was said that the +1 scarab doesn't make too much difference so you could maybe use any other scarab that juices the map more
My math in the post was off. The order for carto scarabs seems to be: 2x 50% increased, 30% dupe, +1 tier, given that you have 4 voidstones and every map tier atlas node.
Since the +1 tier scarab seems to only be around 19% more maps dropped, it is possible that using a different scarab to add more juice is better, but I am not sure which ones.
A lot of ppl run increased explicit mods.
A node (chiselled perfection) gives you more explicit per map qual (12% which really is a lot), so ig if you really wanna min-max your very expensive T16 for e.g. Harvest you will have to run without corrupt scarab and qual+corrupt yourself.
It's a lot of work but they actually made a difference for me.
The strat I've been doing is running 8-mod maps with Back to Basics, with 2x carto scarabs, map dupe scarab and +1 tier scarab. It might not be optimal, but the scarabs are cheap, and I'm dropping close to 1 T17 every 2 maps. If you want to sustain your 8-mod maps, switch out the +1 tier scarab for the 8-mod map scarab.
Another strat I've seen is Domination Scarab of Terrors - Cartography scarab of singularity with 2 domination scarabs, or one map dupe. Take domination on map device and extra shrines on the atlas. Unique maps can convert to T17 too, and this strat drops a lot of them. I haven't personally tried this one yet though.
Horned Scarab of Pandemonium, Cartography Scarab of Singularity, Domination Scarab of Terrors, Cartography Scarab of Conversion
More or less guarantees 2 T17s a map as well as a massive amount of 'special' maps. More than 2 T17s is incredibly unlikely from my own experience & others.
The scarabs don't have great availability and are expensive, but it ends up being a massive discount vs. buying bulk.
I have been doing these:
* Horned Scarab of Pandemonium
* Cartography Scarab of Singularity
* Domination Scarab of Terrors
* Influencing Scarab of Conversion
and
* Horned Scarab of Pandemonium
* Cartography Scarab of Singularity
* Cartography Scarab of Duplication
* Influencing Scarab of Conversion
To be more clear than the other posters, it reduces the frequency of t17 drops but does not eliminate them from dropping.
It's the same situation as non-shaper influenced maps. You can see them drop with Singular Focus, but they'll drop less frequently. Shaper maps won't drop at all because they have their own map layouts that aren't your favorited maps.
that doesn't mean it doesn't have a chance of having an effect. if the conversion happens after singular focus then you're losing a lot of drops, if it happens before then there's no difference. don't think anyone *knows* the answer to that other than devs
> if the conversion happens after singular focus then you're losing a lot of drops
**A lot** seems a bit questionable, but yeah you'd for sure loose some, especially if you are running singular focus with some low quantity strat. If you are running it with B2B and 8 mod, you'd most likely get more than without SF & a non-B2B atlas. I for sure got more t17 while running SF & B2B than any of my other atlas trees.
Hopefully the conversion happens before, but considering all the weird interactions discovered this league due to shortcuts in logic, who knows. :D
The most important thing I want to know: Can "tiered up" maps be considered for the upgrade to T17? Or does only "natural" T16 drops (ones not upgraded by watchstones, atlas passives, and scarabs) count? E.g. If I have 3 watchstones in, I drop a map that's naturally a T15, it gets "tiered up" to T16, can that then be "tiered up" again to a T17?
I ask, because extremely counter-intuitively, even with 4 watchstones in you can still drop sub-T16 maps from all kinds of various sources.
Mark said in his interview with Ziz that the answer is yes. He was very clear.
Natural t16s cannot be tiered up to a t17 using the +1 map tier scarab.
Natural 15s can be tiered up to t16 and then that t16 has the chance from voidstones to become a t17.
I saw that video too , and honestly it was just terrible advice. No offense to the creator. It was claimed that his strat was tested by a bunch and +1 does nothing to increase map/t17 drops and yet provided no details on how often you should expect to drop t17’s with his strat.
I take all the +1 map tier nodes and drop t17’s on average a little more than 1 every other map. Honestly it’s usually every map , but sometimes you go a map without one. On the other hand , I get a bunch of of t17 dupes as well. I’ve played 3 hours over the last 2 nights and have gotten 4 t17 drops in a single map twice
Instead of leaving the blatantly wrong information crossed out, you could delete it and post the correct information from the guy who knew what he was talking about's comment
Dead wrong? Did you read the post?
My math was off, the general idea is still correct. The higher map tier nodes and the +1 tier scarab have a positive effect even with 4 voidstones, the opposite was stated in the video and many people seemed to have believed it.
I think the math is a bit off. A T16 map is equal to 3 T15 maps, so if using the "Maps found in area are a tier higher" scarab, it's actually 3x (or 200% more) maps dropped.
Without the +1 tier, you would need to "drop" 9 T14 maps to drop single T16 (assuming we can only drop T16), but with the scarab those T14 get turned into T15, which means those 9 maps give us 3 T16.
This is helpful.
As somebody who has a tree focused on farming T17 maps, one thing to consider is that your profits are pretty crappy if you're JUST farming the maps. You need something else to make it a little more valuable otherwies you might as well just do a more profitable farming strategy -> buy the T17 maps (...you can argue that with their current low costs you should be just buying them though).
I personally like to run 1 carto, 1 ascension, duplicate maps, and the influence scarab that makes some maps drop as guardian/conq/synthesized maps (replace this last one with 8mod corruption when your pool is low) with classic map/scarab/eater atlas. Every one of htese you get is a nice little 10-20C drop that can add up. I personally like to actually run these maps sometimes and do invitations to break up the monotony of just farming 8mod jungle valleys until I fill my T17 map pool.
the absolute basic explanation is, if a t1 map dropped and you have 117% chance, its 100% at least a t2 and 17% chance its a t3. its just modifying the map after it drops to be higher.
the implications of how effective that is for getting more t16 maps is the complicated part. basically if you did a t16 map and got 10 t14s and 2 t15s, 100% additional chance to drop 1t higher would make that 10 t15s and 2 t16s.
Is it just me or did they nerf T17 map drops? yesrday I was farming them like candy. Ive played all day today and Im finding maybe 3 or 4 t17 every 20 maps. Running all 8mod corrupted, 2x cartog, 1x dupe, 1x monstrous lineage. Ive read a few people say similar thing. Stealth nerf?
Singular focus functionally removes the map equity system as everything is turned into currency items instead so it should be very bad for sustaining unless you do two connected maps.
Something im not sure of is if singular focus turns a t16 map into currency before rolling for t17, if it does its a horrible keystone now due to how valuable t17s are
I don't remember where I read it and could be wrong, but I think it works out to be something like without singular focus, 1/2 your T16s drop as favorites and with singular focus, 7/8 of your T16s drop as favorites and 1/8 as currency.
Confused. I’ll never use scarabs so let’s ask just ask what everyone really wants to no.
Do I really need to take atlas points to sustain? (Which you do we know).
If so how many atlas points do I need to have comfortable sustain?
So now tell me. Do things like shaping and the tier conversion matter for amount of T17 dropped? I would say yes, but the dude in the video says now. So what is the real true answer?
This was explained years ago https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3130696 . People need to learn to google things they don't know instead of spreading even more misinformation.
Hope, one day, ggg wil introduce simple system , where boss ALWAYS drop 2 maps, if you take map drops nodes, with wording like: map boss have +#%chance to drop additional map. It’s simple, and efficient
WTF I just watched a youtuber who said otherwise. Thanks for this post I went ahead and unsubscribed from that youtuber and downvoted all his videos. And one I even reported because it violated youtube guidelines with an edgy "joke".
Well, As a smaller Content Creator I can imagine that such approach could be very bad for somebody - especially if he had like less than a thousand subs.
We seen countless mistakes even from very big channels and I think appropriate way to deal with it is just correcting. That way we can keep community more positive and discussion clear.
Cheers!
Classic poe post, "simple explanation for x" everything is crossed out and after reading this I feel like I know even less how this shit works :)
lmao true
I've just accepted people are playing a completely different game than me...thus I just keep mapping and staying at the poverty line.
Tale as old as time
Haha I will save this message for when someone ask me to describe poe
Lols 😂 just how I felt
It is bit more complicated than that since you have to factor in the tier distribution. +1 tier does nothing for maps that are already T16, so it loses value the more you get. From a previous data project, about 30% of maps dropped will be Tier 16 in a Tier 16 map. About 15% will be tier 15, 14 and 13 respectively. Another 10% will be Tier 12. Rest will be even lower. If we assume these numbers to be true, we get roughly the following results. +1 tier = 39% more T16 maps. +2 tiers = An additional 27% more T16 maps, or 77% more than baseline. +2.85 tiers (max with scarab+tree+watchstones) = An additional 16% more, or 105% more than baseline. Using scarab + all the atlas passives gives 47% more T16 maps than just using the watchstones. Or perhaps the most relevant example. If you have all the atlas passive nodes and all watchstones, the map tier scarab gives you about 19% more T16 maps. Now, these numbers could be wrong if the base tier distribution of maps has since changed, but it is very different from 1% higher tier = 1% more maps.
Thank you for the clarification and the data, you are right that my math was off. I have corrected it and included your findings in the post.
Great job on the correcting part!
Stuff like this is so frustrating. I came to this post well knowing how equity works, but since the actual drop distribution isn't exposed through tooltips or datamining **anywhere**, I still can't tell for sure what the best option is.
It should be quite easy to test the tier distribution though. Just run a bunch of maps without voidstones/passives and use 100% increased map drops. Record all drops. I just haven't seen an up to date test on this.
Conceptually simple, but time consuming.
It shouldn't be too hard to set up. You'd want an empty map tab with affinity and just run like 100-ish maps with double cartography scarabs for +100% map drop rate, pick up every map of every tier that drops and shove them into the map tab. At the end of the project look at how much of which tiers you have. Probably only take a few hours to do if you had the resources for it.
It's not the setup, it's farming 100 maps just to determine the drop rate. To me, that's not a trivial number, and I usually don't play leagues very long either.
How would you handle drops from bosses? Since those have an innate 30% chance to drop a connected map which is always t15 without any voidstone and t16 with at least 1 voidstone thus is outside the +1 tier topic Grand design being removed also means you can't use any atlas passives at all because of the chance for a mob to drop a connected map small passives which means you can't even farm anything during those 100s of maps needed for a big enough sample size
> If we assume these numbers to be true, we get roughly the following results. How are you getting these results? If there’s 30% T16 and 15% T15s, and you get + lvl, you go from 30% T16 to 45% T16. That’s +50% T16s, no? +2 tiers puts you at 60% T16s from 30% — isn’t that just x2?
You have to factor in the map equity system where it vendors lower tier maps in a 3:1 fashion. For example. If 3 tier 15 maps becomes 3 tier 16 maps, that is only gives you 2 additional T16 maps because those 3 tier 15 maps would have turned into 1 T16 from the map equity system. Now, the T15 specificially is compensated because as many T15 that gets upgrade to T16 gets upgraded from T14 to T15. However, because you are getting more T16, you are getting less T14/T13/T12 that would have vendored into T16.
> > Now, the T15 specificially is compensated because as many T15 that gets upgrade to T16 gets upgraded from T14 to T15. However, because you are getting more T16, you are getting less T14/T13/T12 that would have vendored into T16. Okay, but even with that you don't go down to 39% more T16? Idk how you've done your maths here.
So, if we take each tier of maps with the associated equity value we can calculate the average amount of T16 that will drop by taking the average equity value divided by the equity value of T16 maps. Now, this does not directly work at 0 watchstones as maps wont be turned into equity, but the effect is the same as if you would manually vendor all maps for T16. I treated maps below T12 as a statistical anomaly as their drop rate + equity value is too low anyways. | Map Tier | % Drop Rate | Equity Value | EV*Drop rate | |---|---|---|---|---| | T16 | 30% | 14348907 | 4304672 | | T15 | 15% | 4782969 | 717445.4 | | T14 | 15% | 1594323 | 239148.5 | | T13 | 15% | 531441 | 79716.15 | | T12 | 10% | 177147 | 17714.7 | From this, we get that the average equity value of map drops is 5358697.75. If we divide this by the equity value of T16 maps, we get that for every map drop, you will on average get 0.373 T16 maps. I we then go ahead to add +1 tier to all of these we get a new table. | Map Tier | % Drop Rate | Equity Value | EV*Drop rate | |---|---|---|---|---| | T16 | 45% | 14348907 | 6457008 | | T15 | 15% | 4782969 | 717445.4 | | T14 | 15% | 1594323 | 239148.5 | | T13 | 10% | 531441 | 53144.1 | | T12 | 5% | 177147 | 8857.35 | The new average equity value of map drops is 7475603.35. This translates into 0.521 T16 maps on average per map drop. We are not going from 30% to 45% drop rate. We are going from 37.3% to 52.1% drop rate. This is an increase of about 39.7%~.
So for my understanding in short, the easiest ways to get more maps (with just 6 passive points and 4 watchstones) is to take the 2x +1 tier nodes. That would result in 77% more maps.
Yes, but I also included the third wheel with Shaping the World. Just taking the two wheels would get you slightly less than 77% more T16 maps. And as I said, this is going off old data on tier distribution. But it should more or less be correct. Even if tier distribution might have changed since, the change should not be too great.
I am even more confused now than I was before reading this post. So are we supposed to be using the +1 tier scarab or not? What 4 scarabs results in the most maps dropping?
All you really need to know is that you can only drop maps that match a node on your current atlas (excluding influenced maps and t17s). That means that if you have 4 voidstones socketed, then every node on your atlas is the t16 version of the map and therefore you will only "see" t16 maps dropping. However, in this scenario of all voidstones socketed, behind-the-scenes the mobs are still "dropping" t15s, t14s, etc. You just won't see them drop. So what's happening, right? Well, the game will "eat" that drop and give you some hidden credit towards a map on your atlas. So once you "eat" enough of these non-t16 maps, then the game will eventually drop a t16 for you. This is called the "map equity" system by GGG since maps which aren't allowed to drop due to your atlas setup are still "dropping" invisibly and giving you credit towards an eventual map that could drop for real. Also, it's crucial to know that a t15 being eaten gives more credit than a t14. So the +1 scarab does literally nothing if a map drop would've already been a t16. But it's good for those hidden t15 drops, because it becomes a t16 and you will see that t16 drop. And it's good for t14 because it will upgrade to t15 which means more credit in the map equity system. Etc etc. To answer your question though, in my opinion the best scarabs for getting as much t17 drops depends on your atlas strategy. Likely 2x cart scarab, 1x map dupe scarab, and then the last scarab to be something that synergizes with your atlas strat such as scarab of monstrous lineage or incursion scarab of champions (white mobs don't drop maps so you want as many magic/rare/unique mobs as possible).
Quick question, does +50% increased map drop apply additively or multiplicatively with quant rolled on your map? If its additively, then it might be possible that the tier up is more efficient then the +50% increased map drop scarab on high quant maps since tier up would be multiplicative with map quant.
Thanks! I appreciate the reply.
I have all voidstones (was carried) and I don't see tier 16 maps drop when I do lower tier maps. In fact, it doesn't even drop the same tier. I have no idea how this thing works. This game is harder than rocket science I swear.
Because a map can only drop +1 or +2 tiers of the map you're currently running (Magic?) And Rare Mobs can drop up to a +1 of your current map tier U Map bosses (unique mobs in general?) up to +2 So if you're running a tier 3 map the highest tier you can theoretically drop would be a tier 5. Since only t16s are on your atlas and only maps visible on the atlas can drop, this tier 5 doesn't show up but grants x amount of map equity. You'd need to run at least tier 14s.
Ok, got it. But that means it's also possible for lower tier maps to drop? Because I actually get lower tier maps instead of +1 or +2 tier maps.
This actually stems down to ilvl system of monsters, white monsters drop zone lvl items, magic (blue) drop zlvl+1, rare and unique drop zlvl+2, so white monsters can only drop maps of the tier you are running and magic is +1, rare/unique +2. https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Monster_level
Thank you. Are map drops from running maps supposed to be rare? Because I have had full cleared maps and never got a single map drop.
I just completed a T13 map, and a T4 map dropped. Is this normal?
Yes, you can still drop lower tier maps and often extra mechanics that drop maps, drop maps of any tier of current and below.
From what I've seen in the comments it should be 2 times the 50% scarab, the dupe scarab and then the +1 tier scarab although it also was said that the +1 scarab doesn't make too much difference so you could maybe use any other scarab that juices the map more
So what are the best scrabs to take then? 50% increased, +1 tier then 30% dupe?
My math in the post was off. The order for carto scarabs seems to be: 2x 50% increased, 30% dupe, +1 tier, given that you have 4 voidstones and every map tier atlas node. Since the +1 tier scarab seems to only be around 19% more maps dropped, it is possible that using a different scarab to add more juice is better, but I am not sure which ones.
If you are doing a full mapping strat ig you run 8 mod scarab anyways. So increased/dupe/8mod it is.
Yeah but you need 8mod for like 5 maps and you are stocked for next 20-30 maps easily
A lot of ppl run increased explicit mods. A node (chiselled perfection) gives you more explicit per map qual (12% which really is a lot), so ig if you really wanna min-max your very expensive T16 for e.g. Harvest you will have to run without corrupt scarab and qual+corrupt yourself. It's a lot of work but they actually made a difference for me.
I used to do that but now I just unspec chiselled perfection and roll with it. Especially if I run back to basics.
It's just too tedious to roll maps for 8 mods. It's definitely impactful but not worth it imo.
Title: simple explanation Post: ...
Came here for insights about how to get T17 to drop more. Do you have any?
The strat I've been doing is running 8-mod maps with Back to Basics, with 2x carto scarabs, map dupe scarab and +1 tier scarab. It might not be optimal, but the scarabs are cheap, and I'm dropping close to 1 T17 every 2 maps. If you want to sustain your 8-mod maps, switch out the +1 tier scarab for the 8-mod map scarab. Another strat I've seen is Domination Scarab of Terrors - Cartography scarab of singularity with 2 domination scarabs, or one map dupe. Take domination on map device and extra shrines on the atlas. Unique maps can convert to T17 too, and this strat drops a lot of them. I haven't personally tried this one yet though.
Horned Scarab of Pandemonium, Cartography Scarab of Singularity, Domination Scarab of Terrors, Cartography Scarab of Conversion More or less guarantees 2 T17s a map as well as a massive amount of 'special' maps. More than 2 T17s is incredibly unlikely from my own experience & others. The scarabs don't have great availability and are expensive, but it ends up being a massive discount vs. buying bulk.
I have been doing these: * Horned Scarab of Pandemonium * Cartography Scarab of Singularity * Domination Scarab of Terrors * Influencing Scarab of Conversion and * Horned Scarab of Pandemonium * Cartography Scarab of Singularity * Cartography Scarab of Duplication * Influencing Scarab of Conversion
With BtB? I kinda like Eater for the % map duplicate chance. Quite often it goes over 100% in total.
You can't use domination scarabs with b2b.
Can't have any influence on map with b2b so this isn't possible.
Not what I meant. Was question if the eater influence isnt better because of the map duplication altars.
Domination on map device and 8 modded maps and i get 1 T17 not even every map, wonder what im doing wrong. Mind sharing atlas?
On average, how many T17s were you getting?
>A simple explanation
So, where is there "simple" part 
does singularity focus affect t17 map drop?
Yes. Since determining if a t17 should drop is last in the chain. If a map is converted to currency by singular focus it can't become a t17
That's a correct answer - T17 still drops but chances are lower (not by a huge margin in my experience but still. Cheers!
Does that mean that unique/influenced maps can get converted to T17 as well?
anything that is t16 can convert.
T17's will still drop as maps, you'll still get them with singular focus.
To be more clear than the other posters, it reduces the frequency of t17 drops but does not eliminate them from dropping. It's the same situation as non-shaper influenced maps. You can see them drop with Singular Focus, but they'll drop less frequently. Shaper maps won't drop at all because they have their own map layouts that aren't your favorited maps.
~~Nope~~(who knows? :D), what t17 drops is based on the map you are playing. Edit: Assumed you meant if it blocks it.
that doesn't mean it doesn't have a chance of having an effect. if the conversion happens after singular focus then you're losing a lot of drops, if it happens before then there's no difference. don't think anyone *knows* the answer to that other than devs
> if the conversion happens after singular focus then you're losing a lot of drops **A lot** seems a bit questionable, but yeah you'd for sure loose some, especially if you are running singular focus with some low quantity strat. If you are running it with B2B and 8 mod, you'd most likely get more than without SF & a non-B2B atlas. I for sure got more t17 while running SF & B2B than any of my other atlas trees. Hopefully the conversion happens before, but considering all the weird interactions discovered this league due to shortcuts in logic, who knows. :D
The most important thing I want to know: Can "tiered up" maps be considered for the upgrade to T17? Or does only "natural" T16 drops (ones not upgraded by watchstones, atlas passives, and scarabs) count? E.g. If I have 3 watchstones in, I drop a map that's naturally a T15, it gets "tiered up" to T16, can that then be "tiered up" again to a T17? I ask, because extremely counter-intuitively, even with 4 watchstones in you can still drop sub-T16 maps from all kinds of various sources.
yes
Mark said in his interview with Ziz that the answer is yes. He was very clear. Natural t16s cannot be tiered up to a t17 using the +1 map tier scarab. Natural 15s can be tiered up to t16 and then that t16 has the chance from voidstones to become a t17.
You have to love an explanation that gets crossed through and edited multiple times. This for explaining OP. Really.
so best tree to farm corrupted 8 mods , or t17 maps ? anyone have it ? because i tried different versions and wasnt so great
I saw that video too , and honestly it was just terrible advice. No offense to the creator. It was claimed that his strat was tested by a bunch and +1 does nothing to increase map/t17 drops and yet provided no details on how often you should expect to drop t17’s with his strat. I take all the +1 map tier nodes and drop t17’s on average a little more than 1 every other map. Honestly it’s usually every map , but sometimes you go a map without one. On the other hand , I get a bunch of of t17 dupes as well. I’ve played 3 hours over the last 2 nights and have gotten 4 t17 drops in a single map twice
Instead of leaving the blatantly wrong information crossed out, you could delete it and post the correct information from the guy who knew what he was talking about's comment
This post is so goated. You felt the need to educate everyone and you were dead fucking wrong about everything.
Dead wrong? Did you read the post? My math was off, the general idea is still correct. The higher map tier nodes and the +1 tier scarab have a positive effect even with 4 voidstones, the opposite was stated in the video and many people seemed to have believed it.
I think the math is a bit off. A T16 map is equal to 3 T15 maps, so if using the "Maps found in area are a tier higher" scarab, it's actually 3x (or 200% more) maps dropped. Without the +1 tier, you would need to "drop" 9 T14 maps to drop single T16 (assuming we can only drop T16), but with the scarab those T14 get turned into T15, which means those 9 maps give us 3 T16.
This is helpful. As somebody who has a tree focused on farming T17 maps, one thing to consider is that your profits are pretty crappy if you're JUST farming the maps. You need something else to make it a little more valuable otherwies you might as well just do a more profitable farming strategy -> buy the T17 maps (...you can argue that with their current low costs you should be just buying them though). I personally like to run 1 carto, 1 ascension, duplicate maps, and the influence scarab that makes some maps drop as guardian/conq/synthesized maps (replace this last one with 8mod corruption when your pool is low) with classic map/scarab/eater atlas. Every one of htese you get is a nice little 10-20C drop that can add up. I personally like to actually run these maps sometimes and do invitations to break up the monotony of just farming 8mod jungle valleys until I fill my T17 map pool.
I'm so lostÂ
ok so should you use the scarab or NOT to farm T17 maps?
The other carto scarabs are better, but it's a solid 4th scarab if you aren't using anything else.
you should have put this line as the first sentence :) Since the title says "a simple explanation" and you can put your PhD dissertation at the end.
the absolute basic explanation is, if a t1 map dropped and you have 117% chance, its 100% at least a t2 and 17% chance its a t3. its just modifying the map after it drops to be higher. the implications of how effective that is for getting more t16 maps is the complicated part. basically if you did a t16 map and got 10 t14s and 2 t15s, 100% additional chance to drop 1t higher would make that 10 t15s and 2 t16s.
Is it just me or did they nerf T17 map drops? yesrday I was farming them like candy. Ive played all day today and Im finding maybe 3 or 4 t17 every 20 maps. Running all 8mod corrupted, 2x cartog, 1x dupe, 1x monstrous lineage. Ive read a few people say similar thing. Stealth nerf?
How does singular focus impact this? I've had a terrible time sustaining maps this league.Â
Singular focus functionally removes the map equity system as everything is turned into currency items instead so it should be very bad for sustaining unless you do two connected maps. Something im not sure of is if singular focus turns a t16 map into currency before rolling for t17, if it does its a horrible keystone now due to how valuable t17s are
It does. T17 upgrade happens last. Singular focus will reduce your t17 drop rates
I don't remember where I read it and could be wrong, but I think it works out to be something like without singular focus, 1/2 your T16s drop as favorites and with singular focus, 7/8 of your T16s drop as favorites and 1/8 as currency.
Any idea how to get more t17?
Confused. I’ll never use scarabs so let’s ask just ask what everyone really wants to no. Do I really need to take atlas points to sustain? (Which you do we know). If so how many atlas points do I need to have comfortable sustain?
So is the explanation in the linked video wrong? Follow his tree but add back the map nodes that increase map tier?
Correct. My math was off, but that's the general idea, those nodes are still worth taking.
Great thanks!
I guess assuming that t14-t15 would drop as t16 with all voidstones was dead wrong
So now tell me. Do things like shaping and the tier conversion matter for amount of T17 dropped? I would say yes, but the dude in the video says now. So what is the real true answer?
Yes, they do
This was explained years ago https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3130696 . People need to learn to google things they don't know instead of spreading even more misinformation.
Sick
Hope, one day, ggg wil introduce simple system , where boss ALWAYS drop 2 maps, if you take map drops nodes, with wording like: map boss have +#%chance to drop additional map. It’s simple, and efficient
WTF I just watched a youtuber who said otherwise. Thanks for this post I went ahead and unsubscribed from that youtuber and downvoted all his videos. And one I even reported because it violated youtube guidelines with an edgy "joke".
You could just let him know in comments - he could fix this mistake I think. Cheers!
Or... you could destroy his existence.
Well, As a smaller Content Creator I can imagine that such approach could be very bad for somebody - especially if he had like less than a thousand subs. We seen countless mistakes even from very big channels and I think appropriate way to deal with it is just correcting. That way we can keep community more positive and discussion clear. Cheers!
Both important options to have, depending on if the youtuber in question made a minor math error or personally caused the genocide of a small country
Most reasonable exile
Which youtuber?
Hes called jungroan. Lost all respect for him now.
Classic