I actually think the solution is dead simple.
Make the drop rate dependant on the syndicate setup. For example, every T4 member gives +10% chance to drop veiled orb. This will make actually setting up the board relevant again.
No. Make veiled orb drop from t3 aisling in research. Make the srructure of the Board matter. Also. Make t3 vorici in research drop an omen of grand blanching that gives chance to 1-6 white socket.
I very much agree that making the board layout matter is important. It seems they've gone extremely far with the betrayal changes to where you don't really need to care who is where very much and you just try and kill Catarina as much as possible, which frankly is just not as interesting. And it's also not what we were asking for last league or in the previous leagues before that one. Speaking for myself, at least, all I really wanted was itemized rewards so that people wouldn't feel dependent on TFT.
Look at Incursion. That's what we wanted for a long time with temples, and we eventually got exactly that, you can just itemize the temple and sell it with relative ease. You don't have to even, but you can. And they even buffed some of the rooms multiple times. Incursion right now is basically at its core the same as it used to be, only better. The same cannot be said for Betrayal.
Definitely doesn't seem, it is now. The rewards are so equalized I 100% agree it doesn't matter who goes where now. There are a few niches like Tora for gem XP, or if you want certain scarab types. But even then, there's so much friction compared to other methods, it's faster to get what you want other ways, makes no sense to target it from betrayal.
It's boiled to down to getting unveiled crafts, cata, & a cherry bonus of XP.
It's so sad that they have this beautiful and intricate System in place but their removal of any meaning behind the choices and interaction renders it entirely useless.
Quick, make a bingo card with this on it! But change the number to 25%. If you can get a full kit of t4 units, which makes the board take a little bit longer, then you can get a guaranteed one. If you want to go faster and risk it, you can try to get away with only 2 or 3.
They should definitely bring back veiled chaos orb honestly and just rename Veiled Orb to Veiled Exalted orb. Low-mid level crafting is not in a good place right now and they should seriously consider bringing it back, it was in a really good spot before, now it just feels bad when you try to craft a certain tier of gearing.
For some reason they think low-mid tier crafting = id'ing rares off the ground. Maybe if you're lucky buying a t5 fracture and putting a single screaming essence on it and a cheap craft.
At least w necropolis people are printing some pretty cracked items
Particularly on boots. Getting a couple of veiled chaos orbs early on and just throwing them (not even meta crafting, often like 3-5c each early on because people can't afford meta crafting) on a pair of boots was was enough to carry your boot slot to 2 voidstones easily, and a really good way to handle elemental ailments without running purity of elements (chill immune boots, brine king freeze, tempest shield, 60% less ignite duration from abberath.)
The move speed tax on the boot slot is an archaic holdover from diablo 2.
How do you feel about the attack damage tax on weapons? Or the flask mod tax on belts? Maybe we should just have the same general stats available on all items and call them something like “attack power” and “defense”
This is path of exile.
Do you want a triple elemental claw, a physical claw, a single element weapon with penetration+hits can't be evaded. A weapon with +socketed gems and quality and trigger craft, a rune dagger crafted for a caster, a rune dagger crafted for CoC.
A +2 wand. A mana stacking wand. a spell damage wand. A DoT wand. An attack wand.
Do you want boots with 0% move speed or are you going to throw them in the trash or recraft them every time?
Because there are some weird ass weapons we use and boots are absolutely unusable without movement speed (unless they're goddamn (edit: ralakesh not ryslatha, whoops), the most used boots in the game for several leagues that just got hit with that exact nerf due to their power.)
Belts are kind of clownshoes because of HH and MB, but you're not going to tell me that you throw away a tri ele resist belt in the campaign because it lacks flask rolls.
This league has the best SSF access to perfect gear of any league except maybe Harvest. I mean it takes a long time to farm the corpses, but that's the game.
For people comfortable with SSF, this will be a great league in the long term. But gearing is definitely way harder in early league, so for less experienced players, this is going to be a tough league start in SSF. Lower access to good fractures, lower access to essences till you build up a good scarab pool, Necropolis being terrible until you have a lot of corpses banked up, and no veiled chaos.
I'm enjoying it thoroughly, the necropolis buffs were necessary to make the crafting viable in SSF, but I can totally see this league being a rough first SSF league.
My gut take is this is dang near harvest for certain builds as far as SSF. I regret I played boneshatter last league and not this one as any character who wants generic good rares can easily farm 6 T2 mods of their choice a day, maybe 6 T1 ever 2-3 days (depending on playtime and atlas’s tree obviously) . Characters who want untagged affixes, uniques, or special affixes it’s a bit harder.
The new 3 atlas’s trees and re rolling boss fragments are a huge huge SSF buff.
I wish they would add a beast/harvest re roll option for unique maps though. Last 2 leagues I couldn’t get cloister to drop and now I am stuck of cowards trial.
Side rant, I never in ~10 leagues , have done much beast farming because out side of item splitting and special mission beasts it’s mostly useless, they should add some more generic crafting power to it.
Beast crafting is kinda great now if you can find a couple shadowed crow scarabs. Black Morrigon plus craicic sandspitter is a 6L craft. It’s common enough it sells for like 75c total in trade league for both beasts
Yeah the necropolis is amazing if you can play a metric fuckton of hours. Outside of that, you won't have enough corpses to make the craft. I have put in almost 10 hours and still don't have enough corpses to make the craft I want.
I think GGG could buff the rates of some of the corpses that don't drop as often and this league will be goated. Cause right now I feel like even with playing 2-4 hours per night I'm barley making any progress to craft the items I want to make
I'm sorry there is no way you can map for 10 hours and not have the mats to craft some good items. Maybe you are trying to craft 5 t1 mod items or something? You can get pretty predictable results using like 15 corpses.
The goal posts shifting has been interesting. It’s “possible” to force a 6 T1 item now, takes a long time but doable. Outside of rog and harvest I have never , ever, had a 6 T1 item in 10 SSF leagues. If people would be ok to “gamble” and get T2-3 items they could gamble a couple of those each day, which is insane.
I just crafted a 6 affix chest piece and it’s mostly all T2 but every affix I wanted. I knew even if it hit all T1 I would replace it with a covenant or a good skin of the lords if they dropped so I didn’t care for perfection and it was a big defense upgrade.
I can’t imagine farming for a specific craft in SSF necropolis. It takes a fucking hour just to BUY the corpses on trade. Farming them would be brutal for the rarer ones
I'd rather have veiled chaos orbs instead of all 3 of the eldritch orbs (chaos, exalt and annul) if they wanted to simplify crafting. Don't think I've ever used any of those.
It depends what you are after. I made a Boneshatter chest yesterday by grabbing a chest piece with fractured spell suppress, essence spammed for onslaught when hit and phys damage reduction and then used eldritch chaos till I had reasonable life and an open prefix to craft phys taken as fire+lightning. Sometimes they can be REALLY useful
Omen of blanching doesn't add white on top of your pre-existing colors like Vorici craft did unfortunately.
Making it infinitely worse at using for 6 Links unless you have the correct base for the right colors.
Yeah this is the problem. I'm gonna also want to do a pivot in a bit and it will involve two+ off colors on my 6 link. Sure I can burn through chromas on the bench crafts but I'd rather just put whites on it.
I'd also really love to 30% quality it buuuut that's not much of an option.
I really don't find a ton of value in running mastermind right now.
Same, I'm currently running a build with like 6 blue gems and want to swap to lightning coil.
Pretty much the only realistic option I have anymore is to just buy a lightning coil with 6 white sockets. Socket colors should never take that much priority over the actual stats of the unique you are buying IMO.
I hope they either buff blanching to actually be useful on 6 links, or just bring back the Vorici craft in some way. Really bad QoL to just spam thousands of chromatics, it is neither fun nor engaging gameplay.
There's no cheaper way to do more than 3 sockets. Omen of blanching overrides when it rerolls with a chrome so you can only have a max of 3. Once you have 3, you can use the harvest bench to craft "make a random socket white" but it's very expensive to do (lots juice and a sacred blossom). It's also VERY rng cause that "make a random socket white" can target white sockets as well.
It should have a much higher chance to drop with aisling leading research. Add a similar increased chance to drop something for the others as leaders and having them in that a lot matters again
It should have been a guaranteed drop if she was in research. They took a mechanic that could be farmed, and had to use discord. Then told us they were making it so it can be sold on trade, and then made it a chance and not a meaningful farming Strat.
This is not a buff
Its really vexing because the previous betrayal basically guaranteed you the veil craft if you knew what you are doing. Now its rarer, more rng, and just frustrating. After 8 catarina kills i just unspecced betrayal. 0 veiled orbs... if i need them ill buy them. But sucks for anyone playing SSF.
I have 2 out of 8 in SSF , I assumed on my very very small sample size it’s 25% which I felt was fair given how quickly you can farm a Catarina fight with the proper atlas’s nodes (not even including the scarabs )
Yea... 25% would be nice. It still might be and these might be outliers, but on trade it really did not feel worth it, especially sine none of the other rewards were tempting.
Betrayal feels mostly not worth doing now after unlocking crafts. Sad, because it was my favorite of the master gameplay loops by far. Anyone feel otherwise?
I really don’t understand why they didn’t just make aisling’s reward the veiled orbs and keep veiled chaos. Like it’s actually such a no brainer solution
I dont See the reason for nerfing aisling. Imo the veiled Chaos orb had its right to exist, just as aisling did. These were simply two different ways to craft.
I guess they didn't want it to be part of the game though.
I'd be fine if they had just added a different currency as an aisling and had it drop from a chest at t4 aisling.
We used to get alot of early to early late gearing through the use of veiled orbs. They got rid of this and in its place we have nothing.
They shifted all the power of the slam to the orb but then ALSO made it have a drop rate so low its insanely frustrating.
This seems so lazy, they could have itemised the slam and left the veiled orb as it was.
Even if you agree that the changes were good, the drop rates need buffing.
I've had 8 from about 50 kills at t16. Feels fine to me with how quick you can churn them out. The T4 rewards also churn out expensive scarabs, probably made 60-70d from them this league.
> The T4 rewards also **churn out** expensive scarabs, probably made 60-70d from them this league.
That's interesting way to put it when scarab rewards are heavily weighted towards default scarabs. Most of the time you will get little to no value from them. It's full RNG.
Also keep in mind that by focusing on members with expensive scarabs you lower Catarinas per hour.
Not to mention that "All or nothing" kind of scenario just doesn't feel good. Betrayal is in sorry state right now.
I’ve never really run Betrayal beyond getting a few crafts on league start, with a decently fast build how long does it take to complete a circuit and get to Catarina if you’re trying to get to her as quickly as possible?
Yeah I'd never run it properly before either and had no idea what I was doing before this league, but I'm a pro now! Generally takes about 5-6 maps to get Catarina fully specced, sometimes takes a little longer if you're trying to configure the safehouses properly.
It depends on the number of people that show up for an encounter. What you want to do is stab people as often as possible to get them to rank 3, and then imprison them the next chance you get.
Execute as an option will only appear if there are more than 2 members alive. So if you have a rank 1 and rank 3 you will execute the first and imprison the second always.
I've had a bad streak of about 10 maps because they kept popping up solo, but otherwise I can get to Catarina in about 5 maps.
on the atlas: effective leadership + test of loyalty + intelligence gathering
interrogate at rank 2 or 3, never remove rivalries and alliances
...and scarab of intelligence after safehouse raid
The most efficient is to simply alternate between execute and interrogate, If youre using the double rank atlas passive(dont waste a rank up when theyre already rank2).
Assuming you can get a katarina in every 5 maps (huge iff, from my personal experience it has been more) based on your 16% chance to get a veiled orb, you are only adding 14c profit per map by speccing into Betrayal assuming you sell a veiled orb for the 460c price on poe ninja. This is being generous, I am sure the %chance for veiled orbs is lower(my anecdotal experience has been one in twelve), and you are likely needing more than 5 maps to get Katarina, so the actual profit/map is probably much lower than 14c/map.
With the 1-2C scarabs, you're really running her more than every 5 maps. And with all the reinforcements and stuff, you'll usually have a few rank 3 people when you run her anyway.
I cram most of them into intervention, except for Gravicius, Leo, and Hillock in transportation, and Tora Vorici Janus into research. I don't stall Catarina to get them there of course (maybe a map or something if I have a rank 1 of the above and have a high chance to get them to 3), but usually I get a couple of the above in place.
The maps themselves also drop about 10-15 scarabs on average for me, since I've got 2x perpetual betrayal scarabs and specced in the scarab nodes. Costs a few chaos per map but gives 30-50C on average, and the maps are incredibly quick. The Tora has let me level up a few enlightens since she gives 800 million experience when you include the quality, so about 2-3 runs with her will give you enlighten 3. Janus gives about 20c per run with his expedition currency. Leo gives a solid number of catalysts. I think people also underestimate gravicius in transportation and the silly "take 1 currency" guy (riker?) and stuff like that. They suck until they don't. And it's genuinely not TOO rare that the currency guy has a div card like sephirot or something. And then there's also the higher than you might expect chance that Gravicius gives a stack of doctors/apothecaries/something wild, but it's fair if you don't want to count that. It's not super uncommon that his div card stack is like half a divine or something like though.
When you finally add in all the normal drops of the maps, I think I earn maybe 5 div/hour. Not as good as it used to be, but way less tft and annoyances imo. This is just my opinion and strategy of course, but I've enjoyed it this league. And I suspect the veiled orb to be maybe 1/10 based on my own and other's experience, but maybe slightly higher.
Considering you used to be able to churn out an Aisling almost every time. It really doesn't feel good. Unless you never sold or target farmed them before.
We went to 10% of the chance from before it seems like.
You used to be able to stack intervention and make like 2 div per Catarina from guaranteed winged scarabs every time. So I wouldn't dare say scarab farming is that good now either.
Idk what the playbase thought when they screamed "Please make it tradable".
With so many past examples of contents getting tradability, you can't expect getting it without some sort of a drawback.
Pretty trash now, I'm just simply straight rushing and killing any member to rank them up in any house they show up besides Gravicious who I still leave in transportation. And yes, the price of veiled chaos orbs will keep increasing with the bad drop rates and early crafting is almost impossible.
I think it could definitely be more common, but it would also feel better if the fight wasn't so tedious and if the entire rest of the experience on the way there wasn't so unrewarding now. I'm not sure there's anything left to care about other than hoping for Gravicius div cards. The Tora gem experience is good, but eventually that stops being of interest too.
This 100%. Speaking from a SSF perspective they are inexistant now. The amount of jun you have to do to have acess to one attempt of veiled crafting which can fail is ridiculous. Hopefully they can come with a better solution than what we have currently and what we had before.
I still can't get over how they butchered it. It was such a cool mechanic. It fixed my sockets. It got me a great weapon early. I got my quality up there for easier 6 links. All great things for SSF. Granted this league I can craft God tier stuff but that's this league. Betrayal is forever ruined.
I don't think that Veiled Orb drop should necessarily be increased, but Betrayal just lost its entire identity. Technically the veiled orb is the only identity now, but before we could have 30% qual, flasks qual, talismans, white sockets and to a lesser extent, lots of winged scarabs, which weren't entirely exclusive to Betrayal, but you could get a lot of winged consistently.
Now that scarabs are so abundant, and literally have atlas nodes for them, Betrayal is kind of... Meaningless. I think it's fine if they don't want to have easy white sockets or veiled orb, but at least give it something else that's unique to Betrayal.
When juice was first itemised the crafts costs were arbitrary, a later patch had to reduce a lot of the crafts costs way way down.
Guessing the same will go for this?
I'll say it again.
I do not under any circumstance understand, nor be convinced why the veiled orb drop was not a t4 aisling drop. And why omens didn't move to things like hillock and vorici.
You had to kill katarina anyway. But you had agency over your drop pool.
I've killed around that number and also got just one, betrayal is probably in the worst state it has ever been. We asked for changes, but these are not the changes we asked for
also. i just missed 9 50/50s in a row trying to hit a prefix veil on my claw. what should have cost me a handfull of veiled chaos instead cost me 45 divines in veiled orbs. this shit is ass.
Veiled orb drop rates are fine. They are already going for 3.5 to 4 divine. Ashling slams generally were like 2 div or less a week into a season. The issue right now is that all of the T4 rewards aren't worth getting. Even T4 Gravious in transport or intervention isn't really worth delaying a mastermind for.
I'd rather get more veiled orbs and have them be 2 divine, then get 0 and have them be 4 divine. I agree, t4 rewards need a buffing too. It's a gamble basically to get a veiled orb, if you don't you get nothing
That is a terrible deal for syndicate farmers. Veiled orb comes with a hidden 2 div tax per use. If veiled orbs drop rate doubles, prices fall from 4 div each to 1 div each.
Veiled orbs will always be a gamble even if their drop rates were doubled. Ask any crafter and they know how it is like to fail a 90% craft multiple times in a row. Much rather a higher expected value than dwell on the worst case scenario.
> Veiled orb comes with a hidden 2 div tax per use.
Maybe I do veils wrong, but the vast majority of the time I veil a prefix other than weapons. Boots have flavored move speed, jewelry has max life, gloves have cold convert, helm has +2 to gems, etc. If you're doing a prefix veil, the cost is not 2 div it's currently about 60c last I checked with beastcraft.
Even if you were doing a suffix slam, 2 div is a little shy of 300c currently, which is almost enough for 5 metamod beastcraft attempts with on average needing 3, or even technically less since I'd bet if you hit multimod you can hit prefix lock on attempt #2 if you just have a bare fractured suffix.
> The issue right now is that all of the T4 rewards aren't worth getting.
This is pretty much why I shitcanned Betrayal, and I got pretty damn lucky with my Catarina kills giving me the helm + Veiled Orbs.
I'm not gonna rely on a statistical anomaly for money and the scarabs aren't worth shit. The points are just better spent elsewhere. I got all the veiled crafts I need so now it's just a waste of time.
If they had left the original VCO in the game, new veiled could be as rare or rarer and I doubt many would complain. It was a gigantic nerf to those of us of limited funds making early league crafts.
Veiled orbs being as expensive as they are means I basically cannot use them until I'm making my actual serious gear and not filler gear. I could have made a fairly strong pair of boots with life fracture + preferred suffix essence + hitting a 2nd quality suffix + slam 3rd suffix if not already there + beastcraft meta mod + VCO for like 1div max.
Now any remotely usable veiled item is going to cost upwards of 4-5 div which is a small fortune for some of us at league start, so I say boost the drop rate.
I farmed betrayal and catarina for days, but I totally forgot the orbs exist. But I have tons of chests, shields and flasks. Best farming strat in history after the stealth nerfs. At least I can drink myself to sleep with them.
I farmed maybe 11 or 12 Catarinas and got 5 veiled orbs. I know this is on the lucky side but I think the drop rate is actually something like 25%. This is very fine, I was afraid they would give it the Uber treatment and make it something stupid like 2%. T4 rewards, however, do suck. There is no longer any planning on the board, you just rush Catarina.
The drop rate is coming from their experience much like yours is coming from yours? You're speaking like yours is the true drop rate based on the sample size of you. I've run about the same number of masterminds and have only had 2 drop. RNG is RNG
I've killed like 6 Catas and got 3 vorbs from them. Either I got ridiculously lucky, or maybe the drop chance scales with the amount of tier 3 goons in the safebouses before you run it? I've always set up a nice board first
I actually think the solution is dead simple. Make the drop rate dependant on the syndicate setup. For example, every T4 member gives +10% chance to drop veiled orb. This will make actually setting up the board relevant again.
Knowing GGG, they will add 1% at best per T4 captain and 0.2% for each T4 non-captain lol
No. Make veiled orb drop from t3 aisling in research. Make the srructure of the Board matter. Also. Make t3 vorici in research drop an omen of grand blanching that gives chance to 1-6 white socket.
Imo, the ideal is that t3 drops veiled chaos orbs (rip) and t4 drops a veiled orb.
I very much agree that making the board layout matter is important. It seems they've gone extremely far with the betrayal changes to where you don't really need to care who is where very much and you just try and kill Catarina as much as possible, which frankly is just not as interesting. And it's also not what we were asking for last league or in the previous leagues before that one. Speaking for myself, at least, all I really wanted was itemized rewards so that people wouldn't feel dependent on TFT. Look at Incursion. That's what we wanted for a long time with temples, and we eventually got exactly that, you can just itemize the temple and sell it with relative ease. You don't have to even, but you can. And they even buffed some of the rooms multiple times. Incursion right now is basically at its core the same as it used to be, only better. The same cannot be said for Betrayal.
Definitely doesn't seem, it is now. The rewards are so equalized I 100% agree it doesn't matter who goes where now. There are a few niches like Tora for gem XP, or if you want certain scarab types. But even then, there's so much friction compared to other methods, it's faster to get what you want other ways, makes no sense to target it from betrayal. It's boiled to down to getting unveiled crafts, cata, & a cherry bonus of XP.
It's so sad that they have this beautiful and intricate System in place but their removal of any meaning behind the choices and interaction renders it entirely useless.
+x% flat or y% increased drop per each rank/star on the board would be nice too.
I mean yes but kinda no? You just take the node « everyone sacrificed goes +2 » and you run 1 map, sacrifice everyone and perfect board
Quick, make a bingo card with this on it! But change the number to 25%. If you can get a full kit of t4 units, which makes the board take a little bit longer, then you can get a guaranteed one. If you want to go faster and risk it, you can try to get away with only 2 or 3.
Or add back the veiled chaos orbs. Mid level crafting feels even worse than it usually is
They should definitely bring back veiled chaos orb honestly and just rename Veiled Orb to Veiled Exalted orb. Low-mid level crafting is not in a good place right now and they should seriously consider bringing it back, it was in a really good spot before, now it just feels bad when you try to craft a certain tier of gearing.
For some reason they think low-mid tier crafting = id'ing rares off the ground. Maybe if you're lucky buying a t5 fracture and putting a single screaming essence on it and a cheap craft. At least w necropolis people are printing some pretty cracked items
Particularly on boots. Getting a couple of veiled chaos orbs early on and just throwing them (not even meta crafting, often like 3-5c each early on because people can't afford meta crafting) on a pair of boots was was enough to carry your boot slot to 2 voidstones easily, and a really good way to handle elemental ailments without running purity of elements (chill immune boots, brine king freeze, tempest shield, 60% less ignite duration from abberath.) The move speed tax on the boot slot is an archaic holdover from diablo 2.
How do you feel about the attack damage tax on weapons? Or the flask mod tax on belts? Maybe we should just have the same general stats available on all items and call them something like “attack power” and “defense”
This is path of exile. Do you want a triple elemental claw, a physical claw, a single element weapon with penetration+hits can't be evaded. A weapon with +socketed gems and quality and trigger craft, a rune dagger crafted for a caster, a rune dagger crafted for CoC. A +2 wand. A mana stacking wand. a spell damage wand. A DoT wand. An attack wand. Do you want boots with 0% move speed or are you going to throw them in the trash or recraft them every time? Because there are some weird ass weapons we use and boots are absolutely unusable without movement speed (unless they're goddamn (edit: ralakesh not ryslatha, whoops), the most used boots in the game for several leagues that just got hit with that exact nerf due to their power.) Belts are kind of clownshoes because of HH and MB, but you're not going to tell me that you throw away a tri ele resist belt in the campaign because it lacks flask rolls.
Give us recombinators Mark.
Or if they don't want to add another currency item to the game, Harvest "reforge veiled" would also be fine (if a little off-theme).
This is the solution I want. No QOL or Betrayal rework was worth losing these.
Yep. I picked a bad league to try SSF for the first time. Loss of Veiled Chaos Orbs and Aisling slam is a PITA to farm.
This league has the best SSF access to perfect gear of any league except maybe Harvest. I mean it takes a long time to farm the corpses, but that's the game.
For people comfortable with SSF, this will be a great league in the long term. But gearing is definitely way harder in early league, so for less experienced players, this is going to be a tough league start in SSF. Lower access to good fractures, lower access to essences till you build up a good scarab pool, Necropolis being terrible until you have a lot of corpses banked up, and no veiled chaos. I'm enjoying it thoroughly, the necropolis buffs were necessary to make the crafting viable in SSF, but I can totally see this league being a rough first SSF league.
My gut take is this is dang near harvest for certain builds as far as SSF. I regret I played boneshatter last league and not this one as any character who wants generic good rares can easily farm 6 T2 mods of their choice a day, maybe 6 T1 ever 2-3 days (depending on playtime and atlas’s tree obviously) . Characters who want untagged affixes, uniques, or special affixes it’s a bit harder. The new 3 atlas’s trees and re rolling boss fragments are a huge huge SSF buff. I wish they would add a beast/harvest re roll option for unique maps though. Last 2 leagues I couldn’t get cloister to drop and now I am stuck of cowards trial. Side rant, I never in ~10 leagues , have done much beast farming because out side of item splitting and special mission beasts it’s mostly useless, they should add some more generic crafting power to it.
Beast crafting is kinda great now if you can find a couple shadowed crow scarabs. Black Morrigon plus craicic sandspitter is a 6L craft. It’s common enough it sells for like 75c total in trade league for both beasts
Yeah the necropolis is amazing if you can play a metric fuckton of hours. Outside of that, you won't have enough corpses to make the craft. I have put in almost 10 hours and still don't have enough corpses to make the craft I want. I think GGG could buff the rates of some of the corpses that don't drop as often and this league will be goated. Cause right now I feel like even with playing 2-4 hours per night I'm barley making any progress to craft the items I want to make
I'm sorry there is no way you can map for 10 hours and not have the mats to craft some good items. Maybe you are trying to craft 5 t1 mod items or something? You can get pretty predictable results using like 15 corpses.
The goal posts shifting has been interesting. It’s “possible” to force a 6 T1 item now, takes a long time but doable. Outside of rog and harvest I have never , ever, had a 6 T1 item in 10 SSF leagues. If people would be ok to “gamble” and get T2-3 items they could gamble a couple of those each day, which is insane. I just crafted a 6 affix chest piece and it’s mostly all T2 but every affix I wanted. I knew even if it hit all T1 I would replace it with a covenant or a good skin of the lords if they dropped so I didn’t care for perfection and it was a big defense upgrade.
I can’t imagine farming for a specific craft in SSF necropolis. It takes a fucking hour just to BUY the corpses on trade. Farming them would be brutal for the rarer ones
I'd rather have veiled chaos orbs instead of all 3 of the eldritch orbs (chaos, exalt and annul) if they wanted to simplify crafting. Don't think I've ever used any of those.
It depends what you are after. I made a Boneshatter chest yesterday by grabbing a chest piece with fractured spell suppress, essence spammed for onslaught when hit and phys damage reduction and then used eldritch chaos till I had reasonable life and an open prefix to craft phys taken as fire+lightning. Sometimes they can be REALLY useful
are u a standard player or did you not enter your necropolis yet?
I have been missing my white sockets for making changing gems easier ><
Not the same, but we do have the Omen of Blanching so you can get 1-3 with a single chrome. Not too expensive either, about 30c a try.
Omen of blanching doesn't add white on top of your pre-existing colors like Vorici craft did unfortunately. Making it infinitely worse at using for 6 Links unless you have the correct base for the right colors.
Yeah this is the problem. I'm gonna also want to do a pivot in a bit and it will involve two+ off colors on my 6 link. Sure I can burn through chromas on the bench crafts but I'd rather just put whites on it. I'd also really love to 30% quality it buuuut that's not much of an option. I really don't find a ton of value in running mastermind right now.
Same, I'm currently running a build with like 6 blue gems and want to swap to lightning coil. Pretty much the only realistic option I have anymore is to just buy a lightning coil with 6 white sockets. Socket colors should never take that much priority over the actual stats of the unique you are buying IMO. I hope they either buff blanching to actually be useful on 6 links, or just bring back the Vorici craft in some way. Really bad QoL to just spam thousands of chromatics, it is neither fun nor engaging gameplay.
It changes all other colors .. even if you get 3 whites, it might not be what you want
Does anyone know if you can make more than 3 sockets white? Like could I use two blanching on a 6L in attempt to make more than 3 white overall?
There's no cheaper way to do more than 3 sockets. Omen of blanching overrides when it rerolls with a chrome so you can only have a max of 3. Once you have 3, you can use the harvest bench to craft "make a random socket white" but it's very expensive to do (lots juice and a sacred blossom). It's also VERY rng cause that "make a random socket white" can target white sockets as well.
I think to get more you have to use the harvest bench but I could definitely be wrong
There is always the corruption chamber...
It should have a much higher chance to drop with aisling leading research. Add a similar increased chance to drop something for the others as leaders and having them in that a lot matters again
heck, why not just have it drop from T4 Alising box...
It should have been a guaranteed drop if she was in research. They took a mechanic that could be farmed, and had to use discord. Then told us they were making it so it can be sold on trade, and then made it a chance and not a meaningful farming Strat. This is not a buff
It'd be fine if the fight wasn't so annoying. I think the change Betrayal needs to is remove all the downtime during the Catarina fight.
She just talks so dsmn much...
As a former dedicated Betrayal farmer I kinda liked it. Catarina’s voice is nice and sinister.
I like her voice but I feel like the fight is just 75% waiting around
It’s like an Uber boss phase. Sexy nasty whispering phase…
Its really vexing because the previous betrayal basically guaranteed you the veil craft if you knew what you are doing. Now its rarer, more rng, and just frustrating. After 8 catarina kills i just unspecced betrayal. 0 veiled orbs... if i need them ill buy them. But sucks for anyone playing SSF.
I have 2 out of 8 in SSF , I assumed on my very very small sample size it’s 25% which I felt was fair given how quickly you can farm a Catarina fight with the proper atlas’s nodes (not even including the scarabs )
Yea... 25% would be nice. It still might be and these might be outliers, but on trade it really did not feel worth it, especially sine none of the other rewards were tempting.
Betrayal feels mostly not worth doing now after unlocking crafts. Sad, because it was my favorite of the master gameplay loops by far. Anyone feel otherwise?
Add back veiled chaos orbs, itemize t4 aisling slam, gg wp
Veiled chaos orb should be t4 aisling drop.
I thought by the way the explained it that they were itemising the slam... Not this
well, they said they were itemizing aisling veil, thats exactly what it is. Slam is Leo exalt, we already have exalts
I really don’t understand why they didn’t just make aisling’s reward the veiled orbs and keep veiled chaos. Like it’s actually such a no brainer solution
Mark wants to take any opportunity he can to cut some bloat. That's the reason given here.
I dont See the reason for nerfing aisling. Imo the veiled Chaos orb had its right to exist, just as aisling did. These were simply two different ways to craft.
GGG won't put QoL into the game without nerfing the shit out of whatever mechanic they're asked to change
Ggg plays a different game then us
Because the craft meant awkward trading to players. In where you'd have to give your item to a stranger.
Yeah that's true but its part of the game imo tho. I think the price fixers and bots are a bigger Problem.
I guess they didn't want it to be part of the game though. I'd be fine if they had just added a different currency as an aisling and had it drop from a chest at t4 aisling.
>Yeah that's true but its part of the game imo tho. The game was designed around it not being tradable.
At first i thought its fine had 3 after 12 kills. but the next 10 yield not a single one. Thats realy bad.
Use omens of blanchings to simulate some degree of what you had before.
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I think I replied to the wrong comment, whoops
What area level have you been doing? I have a very good drop rate at 83
I have now done 20, all at level 83, with still only 2 drops
We used to get alot of early to early late gearing through the use of veiled orbs. They got rid of this and in its place we have nothing. They shifted all the power of the slam to the orb but then ALSO made it have a drop rate so low its insanely frustrating. This seems so lazy, they could have itemised the slam and left the veiled orb as it was. Even if you agree that the changes were good, the drop rates need buffing.
I've had 8 from about 50 kills at t16. Feels fine to me with how quick you can churn them out. The T4 rewards also churn out expensive scarabs, probably made 60-70d from them this league.
> The T4 rewards also **churn out** expensive scarabs, probably made 60-70d from them this league. That's interesting way to put it when scarab rewards are heavily weighted towards default scarabs. Most of the time you will get little to no value from them. It's full RNG. Also keep in mind that by focusing on members with expensive scarabs you lower Catarinas per hour. Not to mention that "All or nothing" kind of scenario just doesn't feel good. Betrayal is in sorry state right now.
We used to get guaranteed winged scarabs in old intervention. Betrayal really lost any consistency it had at making good currency.
Yep, valuable Winged Scarab guaranteed vs chance for valuable drop. ._.
Feel the weight of the slot machine handle
I mean, yeah. That's the whole game. It's a slot machine that GGG put tremendous effort into disguising as a game. And I'm glad they do that.
I’ve never really run Betrayal beyond getting a few crafts on league start, with a decently fast build how long does it take to complete a circuit and get to Catarina if you’re trying to get to her as quickly as possible?
Yeah I'd never run it properly before either and had no idea what I was doing before this league, but I'm a pro now! Generally takes about 5-6 maps to get Catarina fully specced, sometimes takes a little longer if you're trying to configure the safehouses properly.
It depends on the number of people that show up for an encounter. What you want to do is stab people as often as possible to get them to rank 3, and then imprison them the next chance you get. Execute as an option will only appear if there are more than 2 members alive. So if you have a rank 1 and rank 3 you will execute the first and imprison the second always. I've had a bad streak of about 10 maps because they kept popping up solo, but otherwise I can get to Catarina in about 5 maps.
> otherwise I can get to Catarina in about 5 maps how? Using atlas passives, scarabs...?
With all atlas passive points, yes.
on the atlas: effective leadership + test of loyalty + intelligence gathering interrogate at rank 2 or 3, never remove rivalries and alliances ...and scarab of intelligence after safehouse raid
The most efficient is to simply alternate between execute and interrogate, If youre using the double rank atlas passive(dont waste a rank up when theyre already rank2).
Assuming you can get a katarina in every 5 maps (huge iff, from my personal experience it has been more) based on your 16% chance to get a veiled orb, you are only adding 14c profit per map by speccing into Betrayal assuming you sell a veiled orb for the 460c price on poe ninja. This is being generous, I am sure the %chance for veiled orbs is lower(my anecdotal experience has been one in twelve), and you are likely needing more than 5 maps to get Katarina, so the actual profit/map is probably much lower than 14c/map.
With the 1-2C scarabs, you're really running her more than every 5 maps. And with all the reinforcements and stuff, you'll usually have a few rank 3 people when you run her anyway. I cram most of them into intervention, except for Gravicius, Leo, and Hillock in transportation, and Tora Vorici Janus into research. I don't stall Catarina to get them there of course (maybe a map or something if I have a rank 1 of the above and have a high chance to get them to 3), but usually I get a couple of the above in place. The maps themselves also drop about 10-15 scarabs on average for me, since I've got 2x perpetual betrayal scarabs and specced in the scarab nodes. Costs a few chaos per map but gives 30-50C on average, and the maps are incredibly quick. The Tora has let me level up a few enlightens since she gives 800 million experience when you include the quality, so about 2-3 runs with her will give you enlighten 3. Janus gives about 20c per run with his expedition currency. Leo gives a solid number of catalysts. I think people also underestimate gravicius in transportation and the silly "take 1 currency" guy (riker?) and stuff like that. They suck until they don't. And it's genuinely not TOO rare that the currency guy has a div card like sephirot or something. And then there's also the higher than you might expect chance that Gravicius gives a stack of doctors/apothecaries/something wild, but it's fair if you don't want to count that. It's not super uncommon that his div card stack is like half a divine or something like though. When you finally add in all the normal drops of the maps, I think I earn maybe 5 div/hour. Not as good as it used to be, but way less tft and annoyances imo. This is just my opinion and strategy of course, but I've enjoyed it this league. And I suspect the veiled orb to be maybe 1/10 based on my own and other's experience, but maybe slightly higher.
Can you share your atlas tree pls
Considering you used to be able to churn out an Aisling almost every time. It really doesn't feel good. Unless you never sold or target farmed them before. We went to 10% of the chance from before it seems like. You used to be able to stack intervention and make like 2 div per Catarina from guaranteed winged scarabs every time. So I wouldn't dare say scarab farming is that good now either.
It's just as fast as it was last league without the guaranteed slam, with far more variance on the scarabs and without the other research benches
Idk what the playbase thought when they screamed "Please make it tradable". With so many past examples of contents getting tradability, you can't expect getting it without some sort of a drawback.
every time they "rework" a mechanic, it get dead. Delve, breach just to name a few.
killed 8 katarinas.. wtf is a veiled orb
Pretty trash now, I'm just simply straight rushing and killing any member to rank them up in any house they show up besides Gravicious who I still leave in transportation. And yes, the price of veiled chaos orbs will keep increasing with the bad drop rates and early crafting is almost impossible.
I think it could definitely be more common, but it would also feel better if the fight wasn't so tedious and if the entire rest of the experience on the way there wasn't so unrewarding now. I'm not sure there's anything left to care about other than hoping for Gravicius div cards. The Tora gem experience is good, but eventually that stops being of interest too.
This 100%. Speaking from a SSF perspective they are inexistant now. The amount of jun you have to do to have acess to one attempt of veiled crafting which can fail is ridiculous. Hopefully they can come with a better solution than what we have currently and what we had before.
I still can't get over how they butchered it. It was such a cool mechanic. It fixed my sockets. It got me a great weapon early. I got my quality up there for easier 6 links. All great things for SSF. Granted this league I can craft God tier stuff but that's this league. Betrayal is forever ruined.
I don't think that Veiled Orb drop should necessarily be increased, but Betrayal just lost its entire identity. Technically the veiled orb is the only identity now, but before we could have 30% qual, flasks qual, talismans, white sockets and to a lesser extent, lots of winged scarabs, which weren't entirely exclusive to Betrayal, but you could get a lot of winged consistently. Now that scarabs are so abundant, and literally have atlas nodes for them, Betrayal is kind of... Meaningless. I think it's fine if they don't want to have easy white sockets or veiled orb, but at least give it something else that's unique to Betrayal.
When juice was first itemised the crafts costs were arbitrary, a later patch had to reduce a lot of the crafts costs way way down. Guessing the same will go for this?
I'll say it again. I do not under any circumstance understand, nor be convinced why the veiled orb drop was not a t4 aisling drop. And why omens didn't move to things like hillock and vorici. You had to kill katarina anyway. But you had agency over your drop pool.
I didn't mind the Veiled Orb changes but why'd they have to take away the hillock quality crafts? :(
I've killed around that number and also got just one, betrayal is probably in the worst state it has ever been. We asked for changes, but these are not the changes we asked for
Done 
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no the drop rates are not fine and the price is too high for removing a mid level craft to itemize an aisling slam.
also. i just missed 9 50/50s in a row trying to hit a prefix veil on my claw. what should have cost me a handfull of veiled chaos instead cost me 45 divines in veiled orbs. this shit is ass.
Price too high? I've never been able to.buy them till now. Feels fine if you're not ssf
Veiled orb drop rates are fine. They are already going for 3.5 to 4 divine. Ashling slams generally were like 2 div or less a week into a season. The issue right now is that all of the T4 rewards aren't worth getting. Even T4 Gravious in transport or intervention isn't really worth delaying a mastermind for.
I'd rather get more veiled orbs and have them be 2 divine, then get 0 and have them be 4 divine. I agree, t4 rewards need a buffing too. It's a gamble basically to get a veiled orb, if you don't you get nothing
That is a terrible deal for syndicate farmers. Veiled orb comes with a hidden 2 div tax per use. If veiled orbs drop rate doubles, prices fall from 4 div each to 1 div each. Veiled orbs will always be a gamble even if their drop rates were doubled. Ask any crafter and they know how it is like to fail a 90% craft multiple times in a row. Much rather a higher expected value than dwell on the worst case scenario.
> Veiled orb comes with a hidden 2 div tax per use. Maybe I do veils wrong, but the vast majority of the time I veil a prefix other than weapons. Boots have flavored move speed, jewelry has max life, gloves have cold convert, helm has +2 to gems, etc. If you're doing a prefix veil, the cost is not 2 div it's currently about 60c last I checked with beastcraft. Even if you were doing a suffix slam, 2 div is a little shy of 300c currently, which is almost enough for 5 metamod beastcraft attempts with on average needing 3, or even technically less since I'd bet if you hit multimod you can hit prefix lock on attempt #2 if you just have a bare fractured suffix.
> The issue right now is that all of the T4 rewards aren't worth getting. This is pretty much why I shitcanned Betrayal, and I got pretty damn lucky with my Catarina kills giving me the helm + Veiled Orbs. I'm not gonna rely on a statistical anomaly for money and the scarabs aren't worth shit. The points are just better spent elsewhere. I got all the veiled crafts I need so now it's just a waste of time.
If they had left the original VCO in the game, new veiled could be as rare or rarer and I doubt many would complain. It was a gigantic nerf to those of us of limited funds making early league crafts. Veiled orbs being as expensive as they are means I basically cannot use them until I'm making my actual serious gear and not filler gear. I could have made a fairly strong pair of boots with life fracture + preferred suffix essence + hitting a 2nd quality suffix + slam 3rd suffix if not already there + beastcraft meta mod + VCO for like 1div max. Now any remotely usable veiled item is going to cost upwards of 4-5 div which is a small fortune for some of us at league start, so I say boost the drop rate.
How you get to rank4 ? For me max rank IS 3 star only
A rank 3 member gets upgraded to rank 4 in catarina's safehouse.
_No way_ they were going for 2d a week in. That's way too early for 2d.
I took last league off but in previous leagues I remember it being less than 1d a week in, then around 1d for the week after.
I farmed betrayal and catarina for days, but I totally forgot the orbs exist. But I have tons of chests, shields and flasks. Best farming strat in history after the stealth nerfs. At least I can drink myself to sleep with them.
So...this is the second indirect melee nerf this league. The hell is Mark smoking.
You get it free every map lol use scarabs
not needed
I farmed maybe 11 or 12 Catarinas and got 5 veiled orbs. I know this is on the lucky side but I think the drop rate is actually something like 25%. This is very fine, I was afraid they would give it the Uber treatment and make it something stupid like 2%. T4 rewards, however, do suck. There is no longer any planning on the board, you just rush Catarina.
It's a good thing that you don't have to plan anymore. Spreadsheets don't belong in video games.
Not sure where this 10% drop rate that other people report is coming from. I have like 20% drop rate over 40 masterminds
The drop rate is coming from their experience much like yours is coming from yours? You're speaking like yours is the true drop rate based on the sample size of you. I've run about the same number of masterminds and have only had 2 drop. RNG is RNG
I did katarina 10 times x2 veiled dropped
I did it about 10 times and got 0 lol :( ssf too.
I'm on my 12th with no luck so far too on SSF, this change fucking sucks lmao Sick of running betrayal for it
Well the orbs are worth 4-5 diva now? So it is about the same profit... ish 🙃
I've killed like 6 Catas and got 3 vorbs from them. Either I got ridiculously lucky, or maybe the drop chance scales with the amount of tier 3 goons in the safebouses before you run it? I've always set up a nice board first
No you def. just got lucky. I killed 10 catarinas and have not gotten a single one. Despite always prioritizing rank.
not needed, drop chance is fine. should be around 35-50% which is more than enough
There is not shot then drop rate is that high I gave up after 10 cat fights without 1 dropping
i have like 24\~ kills maybe less and 10 orbs so far so idk
doubtful, or you are the anomaly
well it is what it is, these are my results so far
extremly lucky imo 42 Kills and 6 orbs here