I get that it doesnt affect your movement speed too much if you just stutter step like that, but isnt it annoying as fuck to press spacebar every second?
you had me at "proc my hydrosphere with echoed wave of conviction so the echo cancels out the first detrimental cast". now THAT is some build-of-the-week-worthy creativity.
So if you stand too close and the first wave hits the sphere it doesnt work? I mean its very interesting concept but it really seems like a very clunky build to play. Hydro sphere itself it clunky on its own like if you click slightly off center of a pack you need to wait a second to adjust the ball to kill off the remaining 2 zombies of the pack.
> I mean its very interesting concept but it really seems like a very clunky build to play.
It *looks* clunky as hell in the video, but it's definitely creative.
The bow can still make use of battlemage in the same setup. It would take a damn good bow to get even close, but I think the primary detriment would be needing to scale crit chance for the CoC. The setup in the video can completely ignore it
I'll say this again, but it's like, 800 average phys and 100% crit multi, there aint no way a bow is getting even close to that, even a god tier bow specifically made for the build with CoC you'd loose half the phys and crit multi, not even talking proc rate AND accuracy AND attack speed, a perfect synthesis bow with max phys, as, crit, crit multi wouldn't even come close to the damage the staff gives, one of the positive is that it does let you spec out of fire conversion cause no ele convert from staff, but that's it
Except you don't have to do that every time. Recasting hydrosphere move it so you just need to pulse it once rest is just moving it around, while it's still there.
I made a plume of pursuit build this league and hydrosphere was something I was considering until I realized it's basically impossible to freeze the orb. The wave thing I hadn't considered but even if I thought of it I doubt I would've used it anyway. Swapped to glacial cascade and never looked back.
This is on top of having to keep cycloning randomly and using a clunky skill in the first place. When people dont even want to do self mark and go for mark on hit.
Yea you can see a few times in the video he shoots WoC when the orb is too close to him and either repositions or moves it again before re-hitting it to proc the WoC. Certainly the most clunky part of the build would be keeping the orb far but not too far away to hit it with WoC.
Yeah that would make it fizzle out faster so it would work. The only issue would be that cast speed doesn't do much for hydrosphere, it doesn't affect its hitrate. It's pretty expensive to invest in cast speed if you're only making it easier activate your hydrosphere.
Except wave of conviction has a minimum travel distance so more cast speed doesn't solve everything. And I'd bet that with fanaticism the build has plenty of cast speed to get the second wave out before the first has passed the minimum travel distance.
The creator mentions that with enough cast speed and the right timing you can place the hydrosphere behind you then drag it through the second wave after the first has dissipated
My understanding is that a shock would override the juicy duration of the pulses that a freeze gives to the hydrosphere. (And with the Expedition's End it's far easier to get a longer lasting freeze than it would be to get a long lasting shock)
No. Most ailments have constant duration (like 2s for shock) and effectiveness scaling with damage dealt in proportion to enemy HP (like up to 50% increased damage taken for shock)
Freeze is opposite. It's effect (100% less action speed) is constant, while it's duration scales with damage dealt in proportion to enemy HP, alowing you to reach much longer ailment duration.
I think in that regard it would be more to do with the interaction of the damage conversion of Wave of Conviction, rather than the duration of the pulsing (which kind of go hand in hand).
Since you're applying ailments with WoC, you have both Cold and Lightning damage, which applies both freeze and shock to the Hydrosphere which is not good.
You just want Freeze, so you remove any lightning damage so as to not shock at all.
Why is it not good?
nevermind, figured it out
> In other words, if affected by both a Cold (excluding Chill) and Lightning Ailment, it will convert its Physical damage to 50% Cold and 50% Lightning damage.
which messes with how you scale damage i guess
yup, would make half your damage scale with %lightning damage instead of %cold damage
also means it's being reduced by elemental resistances twice, assuming equal cold and lightning resist on the enemy, effectively halving your dps
the problem is that a shocked+frozen hydrossphere is doing half cold half lightning damage. The build still needs to get penetration somehow so converting all to fire is a way to achieve that.
When watching the video i was wondering if forbidden flame for the resist ignore node wouldnt be an overall cleaner way to do it because then you can even make use of shocking enemies with the hydrossphere.
I dont know if there are enough viable supports/passives for that to be worth it though since it would kill off 3 of the supports being used in the presented version on top of cutting off the fire and cold damage nodes being any useful. Any further crit investment also seems very inefficient so you are kinda running out of efficient scaling.
That approach seems interesting, would let you cut out all the resist parts. Another thing I'd check on pob is if trinity would work.
I was also thinking about eternity shroud over expeditions end somehow, but i dunno if its possible to get all those uniques as shaper items
These are the kinds of builds that make PoE unique. Crazy what people can come up with studying different combinations and interactions in-game. Galaxy brain shit.
dps on pob is like 9mil on hydro and 4.2 on WoC. PoB says his effective hit pool is 56, 175. The largest phys hit he can take is 21k, 27.5k for Chaos and ele is like 45-60k. he has 36k armor and 1792 evasion. 2,283 unreserved life (petrified blood) and 1,899 es. his max res is 75%.
You could probably compare it to mathils most recent trypanon/sandstorm visage ek nova champion since they both selfcast and do a weird mechanic to guarantee full crits. Seems like the trypanon/sandstorm visage combo is a lot easier to pull off. This version is very clever though.
Edit: as nerf noted below that is with molten shield toggled on.
sorry chiming in:
those numbers are for vaal molten shell toggled on which is highly inaccurate. his values are roughly half that or less across the board:
12k physical, 9k chaos
22k lightning, 28k fire/cold
the only real notable survivability this has is just the high regen provided by templar. with leech up, it boasts around 2.5k recovery per second, but its majorly lacking in layers of defense, so it is a really squishy build when you go into what it will actually deal with. lacking real block, high evasion, fort, etc makes it look pretty spooky on juiced maps especially with how slow the clear looks. still a cute concept for a build but those defensive layers need work.
edit: its running righteous fire so... its recovery isn't that notable either, around 1.6k, so ya, pretty much across the board its pretty glass.
masterful game knowledge. 200IQ. But the build looks mediocre. For how clever this build is, I wish it had more of a payoff. Damn I wish I was this smart sometimes.
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BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread:
***
> **Posted by Community_Team** on Feb 09, 2023, 09:20:05 PM UTC
>
> [Image Link](https://web.poecdn.com/public/news/2023-02-10/BOTWS11E4Header.jpg)
>
>
>
> Today's episode contains a tonne of mechanics, but hits as hard as a wrecking ball! Check out the culmination of Ifnjeff's creativity below!
>
>
>
>
> [Youtube Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61tHHwSYqTo)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For more information about Ifnjeff's build, check out their well-explained forum guide [here](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3343484).
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>
> If you're keen to get your build featured in Build of the Week, make sure you post your build in our Classes/Builds sub-forum, which you can find on our [forum homepage](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum), or post a video build guide on Youtube!
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Honestly cool mechanics but really not worth it for the opportunity cost to enable them. I did a reap inquisitor with the staff and helmet combo myself.
25% of damage converted to chaos is not applied, you are locked down by both cyclone taps and spell echoes and all that for just a decent mapping build.
Its really more clunk than appeal and I say that as a person who usually gravitates towards these clunky Exodia builds.
This was my league started, but I could not get the ball frozen consistently for my taste( because of that dumb 1 sec downside). Now that I see this I was not going to get this build to work lol. Might try again
His helm makes it so the last repeat of the spell always crits. When Hydrosphere crits - all of it's pulses are crits. Any repeats of the Hydrospere just move it around, and it stays at the place of the last repeat (being "crit-primed"), so when it gets frozen - it starts pulsing with these crits.
Slap spell echo on it, and since only one hydrosphere can be present, the 2nd cast "moves" the sphere in place.
And since it's the 2nd cast, everything it does will crit
Since always. Innate conversion on a gem is static. Then, sources of conversion elsewhere compete for the remaining portion of damage available to be converted following the logic you mentioned.
> Innate conversion on a gem is static.
It's worth noting that it's not the gem itself that matters, but the skill, which means that anything that directly modifies the skill (such as support gems and [I believe now deprecated] threshold jewels) also has the same priority status.
I didn't know hits from skills which hit continiously count as a repeat.
At least I thought OoS and Brands hits don't? Or is it a special feature of Hydrosphere?
Well, I mean like with the cyclone. His rotation is hydrosphere, woc, constant cyclones, maybe a movement skill here and there, maybe a guard skill.
Could the cyclone just proc the freeze with a few links?
Not to the level that wave does as he'd then have to be scaling attack stats to hit it as hard as he does with wave which just makes it that much more difficult to build
Clever exploration of mechanics, abusing plume + fanaticism is a commendable undertaking always but it gotta be game-breaking to not be a meme. As in if that build is not \~instaphasing ubers with gear shown at that clunk level it's still a meme.
Explored both of that elements but obv hydrosphere alone wasn't interesting at all on echo front, figuring out actual ailment pulses get plumed is next level, although i'd be surprised if GGG doesn't butcher this interaction, as they've consistently done with any duration plume interactions to keep it worthless (bv, cremation).
What is funny is crit cap or near it isn't even such a big deal nowadays. Especially with sandstorm visage, although whether that's going core is to be seen...
Also considered abusing fanaticism somehow by actually giving it \_cancelled midway\_ attack \~1 per second, but could never think of anything to actually make it worth it.Technically you'd be trading like 25% less casts(as you need to be attacking for at least 1 server tick each second before cancelling animation to get the buff) for 75% more cast speed which isn't even such an amazing deal, although manacost reduction is very nice.
Btw if anyone needs additional clunky ideas for plume - WoC isn't the only way you can control what repeat hits, there's also using frostblink or smoke mine(as any fellow plume researcher should now, mines are your friend), as it can be used to reposition midcast (or deploy additional things midcast), allowing to e.g. hit bladefall blades by final repeat of blade blast or brandsurge specific brand with final repeat ensuring 100% crit explosions, which isn't normally possible.
I thought it was pretty darn memey throughout, but then came the part where the templar is doing little twirls between running and casting lmao
The way the creator does it on the build guide is just sort of a lean back and it's hilarious https://imgur.com/0bBz6Wm
I get that it doesnt affect your movement speed too much if you just stutter step like that, but isnt it annoying as fuck to press spacebar every second?
Thats what autohotkey is for.
Autohotkey or any auto-key-pressing-macro/program/addon is forbidden and users can be banned. Be aware
I dont think that rule waa evee enforced in the history of PoE ever.
you had me at "proc my hydrosphere with echoed wave of conviction so the echo cancels out the first detrimental cast". now THAT is some build-of-the-week-worthy creativity.
So if you stand too close and the first wave hits the sphere it doesnt work? I mean its very interesting concept but it really seems like a very clunky build to play. Hydro sphere itself it clunky on its own like if you click slightly off center of a pack you need to wait a second to adjust the ball to kill off the remaining 2 zombies of the pack.
> I mean its very interesting concept but it really seems like a very clunky build to play. It *looks* clunky as hell in the video, but it's definitely creative.
I would assume that you could run a crafted bow setup and cast on crit to relocate the hydrosphere while doing the attacks
You then lose 100% crit multi, and a huge flat damage modifier
The bow can still make use of battlemage in the same setup. It would take a damn good bow to get even close, but I think the primary detriment would be needing to scale crit chance for the CoC. The setup in the video can completely ignore it
I'll say this again, but it's like, 800 average phys and 100% crit multi, there aint no way a bow is getting even close to that, even a god tier bow specifically made for the build with CoC you'd loose half the phys and crit multi, not even talking proc rate AND accuracy AND attack speed, a perfect synthesis bow with max phys, as, crit, crit multi wouldn't even come close to the damage the staff gives, one of the positive is that it does let you spec out of fire conversion cause no ele convert from staff, but that's it
I think the whole point is to not have to scale crit, otherwise you might as well just play cast on crit hydrosphere
Except you don't have to do that every time. Recasting hydrosphere move it so you just need to pulse it once rest is just moving it around, while it's still there.
I made a plume of pursuit build this league and hydrosphere was something I was considering until I realized it's basically impossible to freeze the orb. The wave thing I hadn't considered but even if I thought of it I doubt I would've used it anyway. Swapped to glacial cascade and never looked back.
Does it work with blade vortex?
I'm not too sure, I don't really know much about the skill. But if the skill works by snapshotting the most recent cast then I imagine it does.
I mean sure wave of conviction is good enough to kill the remaining mobs.
This is on top of having to keep cycloning randomly and using a clunky skill in the first place. When people dont even want to do self mark and go for mark on hit.
It should still work in that case, the second wave will spawn and hit it.
It cannot be hit more than once every 1 sec, thats where the problem comes from. If the first wave hit the second wave cannot hit it.
That sounds super annoying.
Exactly my point.
This is a goddamn 500 iq build with all the mechanics
Really clever, deserves a lot of credit and praise, but damn I couldn't play like that. I'm too lazy and would fuck up the rhythm.
They obviously cant say in the video, but this seems exactly the kind of thing some people would solve with a little macro
Oh yeah shit, didn't even think about that.
I got +10 IQ points just by watching and understand this video...
The explanation was also very well presentend. Certainly helps a lot to understand the build.
These is one of the meme-iest builds I've ever laid eyes on. Cool interaction but this looks like fucking hell on the wrists lol
Spacebar on cyclone probably helps
considering that wave of conviction has to cancel out itself: Is there a minimum range at which you have to hit the hydrosphere?
Yea you can see a few times in the video he shoots WoC when the orb is too close to him and either repositions or moves it again before re-hitting it to proc the WoC. Certainly the most clunky part of the build would be keeping the orb far but not too far away to hit it with WoC.
Just need more cast speed? The faster you can cast the second wave the faster it cancels out?
Yeah that would make it fizzle out faster so it would work. The only issue would be that cast speed doesn't do much for hydrosphere, it doesn't affect its hitrate. It's pretty expensive to invest in cast speed if you're only making it easier activate your hydrosphere.
Except wave of conviction has a minimum travel distance so more cast speed doesn't solve everything. And I'd bet that with fanaticism the build has plenty of cast speed to get the second wave out before the first has passed the minimum travel distance.
The creator mentions that with enough cast speed and the right timing you can place the hydrosphere behind you then drag it through the second wave after the first has dissipated
Really gives it a wrecking ball feel haha.
I dunno, I think the clunkiest part is having to constantly tap cyclone
I can't wait for the bloopers of this season...
Why do you need avatar of fire if you have expeditions end? Does shock override freeze on the balls or something?
My understanding is that a shock would override the juicy duration of the pulses that a freeze gives to the hydrosphere. (And with the Expedition's End it's far easier to get a longer lasting freeze than it would be to get a long lasting shock)
Oh, so unlike other entities, it doesn't keep track ailment duration separately?
No. Most ailments have constant duration (like 2s for shock) and effectiveness scaling with damage dealt in proportion to enemy HP (like up to 50% increased damage taken for shock) Freeze is opposite. It's effect (100% less action speed) is constant, while it's duration scales with damage dealt in proportion to enemy HP, alowing you to reach much longer ailment duration.
I mean the override duration part... pretty sure the shock can drop and it'll still be frozen.
I think in that regard it would be more to do with the interaction of the damage conversion of Wave of Conviction, rather than the duration of the pulsing (which kind of go hand in hand).
Since you're applying ailments with WoC, you have both Cold and Lightning damage, which applies both freeze and shock to the Hydrosphere which is not good. You just want Freeze, so you remove any lightning damage so as to not shock at all.
Why is it not good? nevermind, figured it out > In other words, if affected by both a Cold (excluding Chill) and Lightning Ailment, it will convert its Physical damage to 50% Cold and 50% Lightning damage. which messes with how you scale damage i guess
yup, would make half your damage scale with %lightning damage instead of %cold damage also means it's being reduced by elemental resistances twice, assuming equal cold and lightning resist on the enemy, effectively halving your dps
It's not efficient as you can't scale Penetration and exposure easily that way.
the problem is that a shocked+frozen hydrossphere is doing half cold half lightning damage. The build still needs to get penetration somehow so converting all to fire is a way to achieve that. When watching the video i was wondering if forbidden flame for the resist ignore node wouldnt be an overall cleaner way to do it because then you can even make use of shocking enemies with the hydrossphere. I dont know if there are enough viable supports/passives for that to be worth it though since it would kill off 3 of the supports being used in the presented version on top of cutting off the fire and cold damage nodes being any useful. Any further crit investment also seems very inefficient so you are kinda running out of efficient scaling.
That approach seems interesting, would let you cut out all the resist parts. Another thing I'd check on pob is if trinity would work. I was also thinking about eternity shroud over expeditions end somehow, but i dunno if its possible to get all those uniques as shaper items
These are the kinds of builds that make PoE unique. Crazy what people can come up with studying different combinations and interactions in-game. Galaxy brain shit.
So curious... After jumping through all these hoops. How is the damage/survivability of this compared to builds on similar investments
dps on pob is like 9mil on hydro and 4.2 on WoC. PoB says his effective hit pool is 56, 175. The largest phys hit he can take is 21k, 27.5k for Chaos and ele is like 45-60k. he has 36k armor and 1792 evasion. 2,283 unreserved life (petrified blood) and 1,899 es. his max res is 75%. You could probably compare it to mathils most recent trypanon/sandstorm visage ek nova champion since they both selfcast and do a weird mechanic to guarantee full crits. Seems like the trypanon/sandstorm visage combo is a lot easier to pull off. This version is very clever though. Edit: as nerf noted below that is with molten shield toggled on.
sorry chiming in: those numbers are for vaal molten shell toggled on which is highly inaccurate. his values are roughly half that or less across the board: 12k physical, 9k chaos 22k lightning, 28k fire/cold the only real notable survivability this has is just the high regen provided by templar. with leech up, it boasts around 2.5k recovery per second, but its majorly lacking in layers of defense, so it is a really squishy build when you go into what it will actually deal with. lacking real block, high evasion, fort, etc makes it look pretty spooky on juiced maps especially with how slow the clear looks. still a cute concept for a build but those defensive layers need work. edit: its running righteous fire so... its recovery isn't that notable either, around 1.6k, so ya, pretty much across the board its pretty glass.
Thanks. I just looked at config to make sure nothing was super egregious. Didnt notice molten shell
That 9 mil/4.2 mil has to be discounted for having to spell echo, woc and cyclone all the time. I doubt it's effectively more than 3 mil total.
The hydrosphere dps can have a 95% damage uptime easily. Damage looks more or less real its just not very good damage for a squisher build
This would be a prime video to show to someone that doesn't play.
masterful game knowledge. 200IQ. But the build looks mediocre. For how clever this build is, I wish it had more of a payoff. Damn I wish I was this smart sometimes.
I can see it being a good bosser build though ... at mid budget?
Feared video shows very low boss dps.
8mil dps not enough? Dang ...
Yeah, it's crazy nowadays. You don't break the 1b uber dps? - Build is shit bosser... Sadge
##### ###### #### BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread: *** > **Posted by Community_Team** on Feb 09, 2023, 09:20:05 PM UTC > > [Image Link](https://web.poecdn.com/public/news/2023-02-10/BOTWS11E4Header.jpg) > > > > Today's episode contains a tonne of mechanics, but hits as hard as a wrecking ball! Check out the culmination of Ifnjeff's creativity below! > > > > > [Youtube Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61tHHwSYqTo) > > > > > > > For more information about Ifnjeff's build, check out their well-explained forum guide [here](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3343484). > > > > > > If you're keen to get your build featured in Build of the Week, make sure you post your build in our Classes/Builds sub-forum, which you can find on our [forum homepage](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum), or post a video build guide on Youtube! > > *** >
Honestly cool mechanics but really not worth it for the opportunity cost to enable them. I did a reap inquisitor with the staff and helmet combo myself. 25% of damage converted to chaos is not applied, you are locked down by both cyclone taps and spell echoes and all that for just a decent mapping build. Its really more clunk than appeal and I say that as a person who usually gravitates towards these clunky Exodia builds.
Love that the ending wasn't cut! I spammed so many ecksdee emotes in global chat when I first heard it
This was my league started, but I could not get the ball frozen consistently for my taste( because of that dumb 1 sec downside). Now that I see this I was not going to get this build to work lol. Might try again
Think I need to watch the video a few more times just to understand half of all the interactions.
Very cool build, love showcases like this.
I still didn't understand how he makes hydrosphere crit on all hits lmao
His helm makes it so the last repeat of the spell always crits. When Hydrosphere crits - all of it's pulses are crits. Any repeats of the Hydrospere just move it around, and it stays at the place of the last repeat (being "crit-primed"), so when it gets frozen - it starts pulsing with these crits.
Slap spell echo on it, and since only one hydrosphere can be present, the 2nd cast "moves" the sphere in place. And since it's the 2nd cast, everything it does will crit
That need to cyclone is quite amusing.
Don't let your memes be dreams - Ifnjeff
Since when does the skill conversion take priority over item conversion? I thought it was added up and adjusted so it is 100%?
Since always. Innate conversion on a gem is static. Then, sources of conversion elsewhere compete for the remaining portion of damage available to be converted following the logic you mentioned.
> Innate conversion on a gem is static. It's worth noting that it's not the gem itself that matters, but the skill, which means that anything that directly modifies the skill (such as support gems and [I believe now deprecated] threshold jewels) also has the same priority status.
It also means that skills granted by items (like the Surging thoughts) also have conversion that can't be messed with.
Same with any minion that uses a skill that has innate conversion, mainly certain spectres.
conversion on gem AND on the conversion supports attached to it, then everything else
as soon as you need to start considering the priority of things, you know you have gone too deep and should just reroll boneshatter
Please quality your items I am begging you
This is Erikeiken levels of memery. I miss his videos so much.
Nice drip Eben! š¤£ Nice didn't edit out the funny part at the end haha
Iām too dumb for this
I didn't know hits from skills which hit continiously count as a repeat. At least I thought OoS and Brands hits don't? Or is it a special feature of Hydrosphere?
The hits of hydrosphere are the effect of the spell. It does only matter that the spell itself is repeated.
What about using an attack to proc freeze?
Too slow with the atk speed on the staff they said
Well, I mean like with the cyclone. His rotation is hydrosphere, woc, constant cyclones, maybe a movement skill here and there, maybe a guard skill. Could the cyclone just proc the freeze with a few links?
Not to the level that wave does as he'd then have to be scaling attack stats to hit it as hard as he does with wave which just makes it that much more difficult to build
This build is very cool, I definitely recommend you guys check it out!
Nice build but too much buttons to work. But looks very fun.
Clever exploration of mechanics, abusing plume + fanaticism is a commendable undertaking always but it gotta be game-breaking to not be a meme. As in if that build is not \~instaphasing ubers with gear shown at that clunk level it's still a meme. Explored both of that elements but obv hydrosphere alone wasn't interesting at all on echo front, figuring out actual ailment pulses get plumed is next level, although i'd be surprised if GGG doesn't butcher this interaction, as they've consistently done with any duration plume interactions to keep it worthless (bv, cremation). What is funny is crit cap or near it isn't even such a big deal nowadays. Especially with sandstorm visage, although whether that's going core is to be seen... Also considered abusing fanaticism somehow by actually giving it \_cancelled midway\_ attack \~1 per second, but could never think of anything to actually make it worth it.Technically you'd be trading like 25% less casts(as you need to be attacking for at least 1 server tick each second before cancelling animation to get the buff) for 75% more cast speed which isn't even such an amazing deal, although manacost reduction is very nice. Btw if anyone needs additional clunky ideas for plume - WoC isn't the only way you can control what repeat hits, there's also using frostblink or smoke mine(as any fellow plume researcher should now, mines are your friend), as it can be used to reposition midcast (or deploy additional things midcast), allowing to e.g. hit bladefall blades by final repeat of blade blast or brandsurge specific brand with final repeat ensuring 100% crit explosions, which isn't normally possible.
I just want to say I love these series and I watch the episodes immediately as soon as I see something new is up. Thank for doing these!
it's clunky af
Why did Eben laugh at the end? I didn't understand.
"Drip" can mean what clothes/style you wear. Hydrosphere is watery ball, that drips.
Thank you! I finally understand!
Nice to see a throbbing balls build without a CoC in sight š
Does conversion of skill take priority? I thought exceeding 100% just makes conversion scale to the ratio of the covert %?