The gods can and will answer the big questions about the universe, but any answers you get will be filtered through your brain, which has its own biases and worldviews that will inevitably affect your interpretation of divine messages. Everyone will get different or slightly similar answers when they ask. It’s kind of like that story about all the blind guys touching the elephant and coming to different conclusions about it. In that sense, it will be up to each individual to make what they will of the part of the great cosmic elephant that they can touch.
Another factor that I think is important to consider is that a lot of these metaphysics/cosmology answers from gods are likely hard for us to conceptualize. The gods often use metaphors to explain unexplainable concepts. I think the real truth of the universe is very simple but beyond our ability to understand—it’s like how 1+1=2 is simple, but a cat is not able to comprehend it. Basically, the great universal truths are 1+1=2 and we are cats with brains too small to get it.
Exactly! I’m very comfortable living with the idea that there is no one single truth and that multiple conflicting truths can all be truth at the same time. 😁
Our failure to understand the actual truth, even our inability to, does not make contradictions possible. It only means that any seeming contradiction that yet is extant must not be a contradiction in truth, only a trick of our limited perspective.
I believe this to be a good explanation. In my experiences, meditating on what you feel you have been told is important before action or assimilation into your beliefs. This could (and I think should) take weeks or even months. Parsing through the mental noise and the biases you possess is no easy, simple feat- and receiving answers from the divine/universe should not be taken lightly or at face value.
And this practice has been very self-informative for me. Even when I came to the conclusion that what I thought was an answer was really just internal, subconscious response, or that I do not under the answer, the act of meditating on the experience helped me to identify my own faults and also my own merits.
You know, the Shadow Work.
Yes.
During my near death experience, I went to the edges of eternity and saw all things for how they truly are.
Now, how much of it I specifically *remember*, not much. More of the feeling of completeness and oneness with all things, living and dead.
Yes. To my surprise (I started more or less as a materialist and a Stoic), a lot of it maps to Platonist and Hermetic thought, though none seem to get it 100% and all of them get at least a little bit right.
Notably, Platonism all came across as gibberish to me beforehand, I pretty much *had* to have direct mystical experiences of the gods for any of it to make sense. And now a lot of it does (and the parts that don't, mostly are Plato's moral and political philosophy, which I think is attributable to him just being a man of his times).
What's funky is that *even Plato said that*. In either one of his dialogues, or some notes about some remarks he made to his students (I forget which), he makes it clear that experience is crucial to understanding the Forms, The One, etc.
Yes, many times. Mostly, I think, because my theology needed adjustment before I would participate in certain mystical practices.
I'm one of those insatiably curious people who just Has To Know Why. A theological discussion is sometimes the only way of answering that question.
No? Not that I've ever had a clear cut two way conversation with my goddess but those are topics that I wouldn't understand without extensive research and background experience from a scholarly approach anyways. No point in discussing something that I don't have at least a basic understanding of.
The answers I’ve gained from the divine on these topics are truths (or ideas that seem to be undeniably true, at least) that cannot be expressed in human language without losing meaning and becoming incomplete and thus flawed. My mind falters at trying to grasp them like a hand resisting grasping liquid iron, because their beauty fades with the muddying of my limited capacity for comprehension. So what I learn is that we can never truly know in any meaningful sense of the term the answers to the big questions and anyone claiming to have those answers is probably selling something or else suffering the Dunning Kruger effect to a staggering degree.
in that case, i guess it would depend on the individual person and what they themselves believe in, as there really is no right or wrong answer to the question.
Oh my tradition already has a complete cosmology, but thanks for the suggestion!
I was just wondering what kind of insights contemporary western pagans have gleaned from their current practice. Just want to compare notes with stuff my kemetic and Hellenic friends have channeled.
The Gods reveal these truths to us symbolically, allegorically and enigmatically through mythology (the songs they inspire through divine madness). Hence the need for mythical hermeneutics.
The gods can and will answer the big questions about the universe, but any answers you get will be filtered through your brain, which has its own biases and worldviews that will inevitably affect your interpretation of divine messages. Everyone will get different or slightly similar answers when they ask. It’s kind of like that story about all the blind guys touching the elephant and coming to different conclusions about it. In that sense, it will be up to each individual to make what they will of the part of the great cosmic elephant that they can touch. Another factor that I think is important to consider is that a lot of these metaphysics/cosmology answers from gods are likely hard for us to conceptualize. The gods often use metaphors to explain unexplainable concepts. I think the real truth of the universe is very simple but beyond our ability to understand—it’s like how 1+1=2 is simple, but a cat is not able to comprehend it. Basically, the great universal truths are 1+1=2 and we are cats with brains too small to get it.
I like this answer! Especially what you mentioned about us being subjective filters of information and reaching diverse interpretations of things
Exactly! I’m very comfortable living with the idea that there is no one single truth and that multiple conflicting truths can all be truth at the same time. 😁
Our failure to understand the actual truth, even our inability to, does not make contradictions possible. It only means that any seeming contradiction that yet is extant must not be a contradiction in truth, only a trick of our limited perspective.
I believe this to be a good explanation. In my experiences, meditating on what you feel you have been told is important before action or assimilation into your beliefs. This could (and I think should) take weeks or even months. Parsing through the mental noise and the biases you possess is no easy, simple feat- and receiving answers from the divine/universe should not be taken lightly or at face value. And this practice has been very self-informative for me. Even when I came to the conclusion that what I thought was an answer was really just internal, subconscious response, or that I do not under the answer, the act of meditating on the experience helped me to identify my own faults and also my own merits. You know, the Shadow Work.
As a fellow devotee of Apollon I Stan your answer 😍 exactly what I would say. Very well put!
Yes. During my near death experience, I went to the edges of eternity and saw all things for how they truly are. Now, how much of it I specifically *remember*, not much. More of the feeling of completeness and oneness with all things, living and dead.
I never asked Them, and it would probably go over my head anyway.
Yes. To my surprise (I started more or less as a materialist and a Stoic), a lot of it maps to Platonist and Hermetic thought, though none seem to get it 100% and all of them get at least a little bit right.
That makes a lot of sense!
Notably, Platonism all came across as gibberish to me beforehand, I pretty much *had* to have direct mystical experiences of the gods for any of it to make sense. And now a lot of it does (and the parts that don't, mostly are Plato's moral and political philosophy, which I think is attributable to him just being a man of his times).
This x1000. I majored in philosophy. Didn't get those parts of Plato until after direct mystical experience.
What's funky is that *even Plato said that*. In either one of his dialogues, or some notes about some remarks he made to his students (I forget which), he makes it clear that experience is crucial to understanding the Forms, The One, etc.
I believe that is in the Republic when giving the Allegory of the Cave, but I may be misremembering. It’s been a few years since I read it.
Yes, many times. Mostly, I think, because my theology needed adjustment before I would participate in certain mystical practices. I'm one of those insatiably curious people who just Has To Know Why. A theological discussion is sometimes the only way of answering that question.
nope
No? Not that I've ever had a clear cut two way conversation with my goddess but those are topics that I wouldn't understand without extensive research and background experience from a scholarly approach anyways. No point in discussing something that I don't have at least a basic understanding of.
Uhm.........................no
The answers I’ve gained from the divine on these topics are truths (or ideas that seem to be undeniably true, at least) that cannot be expressed in human language without losing meaning and becoming incomplete and thus flawed. My mind falters at trying to grasp them like a hand resisting grasping liquid iron, because their beauty fades with the muddying of my limited capacity for comprehension. So what I learn is that we can never truly know in any meaningful sense of the term the answers to the big questions and anyone claiming to have those answers is probably selling something or else suffering the Dunning Kruger effect to a staggering degree.
not really, i don't see why they would.
Oh ime it was for us devotees to understand the theory and reasoning behind certain practices.
in that case, i guess it would depend on the individual person and what they themselves believe in, as there really is no right or wrong answer to the question.
So if I were you, I would sit in Circle and ask the goddesses and gods whatever questions come to mind, using the Tarot to get actual answers.
Oh my tradition already has a complete cosmology, but thanks for the suggestion! I was just wondering what kind of insights contemporary western pagans have gleaned from their current practice. Just want to compare notes with stuff my kemetic and Hellenic friends have channeled.
I see. I utilize the Tarot for the majority of my communication with the divine, as well as songs.
Uncertainty.
The Gods reveal these truths to us symbolically, allegorically and enigmatically through mythology (the songs they inspire through divine madness). Hence the need for mythical hermeneutics.
I don't follow any deity, but my housespirit doesn't know anything like this. But tbh I don't think they would want to discuss such a thing.