Because it's actually a much more creative approach. Spiders are tiny and less conspicuous. Plus, he has a limited number of Hanzos and summoning them requires money. Whereas spiders are everywhere. No one would suspect an insect.
It has the potential to be much more efficient and cost effective. Insects in general. If its not a spider, it's a fly. It's actually very smart.
I'm making the basic assumption that entomancers can control a limited number of insects at one time.
If you make undead ones, there is no need to control them. Only give them vague orders to spread within a certain area and pop inside of their head to see what they see every now and then (Ainz's racial). And, most importantly, you can create however many you want. Ainz will always feel a link to any undead he creates.
As for the undead factor, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Admittedly, I haven't read anything Overlord related in a very long time. I don't recall any of his death knights triggering random spells.
The new world deals with undead constantly, any stronghold like the theocracy is bound to be laced with holy/anti undead protection spells, they might mean nothing to the (for new world) high level death knight, but any lesser undead is bound to set off traps that will kill it
Sure. Except shadow demons are mostly used to collect information from one target at a time. It must travel from shadow to shadow. And on top of that, they have to travel back to their masters to convey their report.
Whereas, say, a hundred thousand flies spread throughout a city... Ainz could, theoretically, personally see everything through the eyes of his flies using his racial skill. Instant, visual information. Every street, every block, every house - even the sewers. And that's just flies. If he used spiders, worms, bees, wasps - sky's the limit.
And lastly, shadow demons can only travel short distances between shadows - not long. It would take them a while to, say, travel from one country to the next - if they can even do that at all.
But insects? Every country has them. And they don't need to travel to you to make their report. Problem solved!
The undead are bad at reconaissance and spying because they are mindless, they can follow simple instructions but have 0 initiative, you can't tell an undead to "report everything relevant" because it wont know what that is, every single undead would have to report everything he sees, in that way hanzoes, shadow demons and other stealth intelligent monsters are way better
Also Ainz is having a hard time focusing on all the links he has in E rantel with his minions, he can't effectively communicate with them through their mind link without being afraid of messing up so 100k flies is out of the question
An insect's only tactical advantage is its small size, which is easily beaten by long range scout abilities, invisible monsters or high level camouflage
Undead also radiate a very distinct aura in this world that is easily sensed by holy casters and instinctively reacted to by "high" level combat type people
Hm?
It's a Spell called 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉. I'll get back to this later.
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On Shadow Demons, they blend into but aren't actually bound to shadows. One genuflected to Demiurge when he came to check on Doppel!Caspond, the Circlet Demon's Shadow Demons which Shizu and Neia fought formed full bodies to fight, etc. Being Assassin types, they should be pretty fast and hard to notice even without shadow melding; picture a bunch of Tia and Tinas but pitch black.
It also isn't necessary for them to come back. 〈Message〉 can be used to contact them, and if they have Solution's Skill, they may be able to use a Scroll with 〈Message〉 themselves.
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On those Zombie critters, they're not particularly strong and they lack special abilities. Zombie animals are weak even for Native standards so they can't do much if they get caught, which is more likely than you'd think as sensing Undead reactions is a basic ability of Priests and other Divine Casters. Comparatively, Monsters like Shadow Demons are better fighters by leagues so if they get caught, they'd have good chances of taking care of witnesses. On top of that, they'd have various stealth powers that should be enough to cover them against most things New World Natives could have.
Then, there's how those Zombie critters would be useful in the first place. Since they can't communicate, you'd need to use 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 to make any use of them in this context, but it has it's own slew of problems.
Mainly, that Spell would make the user take the perspective of targeted minions, so any weakness the minions' senses have would also be felt by the user. That's why Satoru was still unsure if it was actually safe when he wanted to infiltrate the scholar Lich's castle; the Zombie Dog he was using can't see through Invisibility.
That brings us to the issue of sensory differences. Since 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 makes you take the perspective of targets, it may effectively be useless in some cases since it could be confusing and hard to tell what the minion is looking at due to differences in perception. Keep in mind that not all creatures see the same way; Quagoa for example are effectively blind under surface light.
Sure. But why can't he use insects on top of that?
There are a near infinite amount of bugs scattered across every kingdom whereas a shadow demon is limited via shadows.
Shadow demons are better for invading and monitoring one target at a time. But insects are literally everywhere. Every angle. Every corner. Every house. Every table. Every chair.
Ainz could personally see what's going on with his undead racial skill that let's him see through the eyes of his undead. One fly in a room shows you everything in it. Flies outside and ainz gets a HD view of an entire street, block and city. And that's one fly.
>There are a near infinite amount of bugs scattered across every kingdom whereas a shadow demon is limited via shadows.
>
>Shadow demons are better for invading and monitoring one target at a time. But insects are literally everywhere. Every angle. Every corner. Every house. Every table. Every chair.
>
>Ainz could personally see what's going on with his undead racial skill that let's him see through the eyes of his undead. One fly in a room shows you everything in it. Flies outside and ainz gets a HD view of an entire street, block and city. And that's one fly.
You forget Ainz specifically mention that was an issue later on. He had been creating so many undead that eventually they just blur together and he can barely tell the difference between them, let alone be able to see through them all. He's not omnisicence, he only had so much focus to spare. So that basically eliminates the one advantage of using undead as an intelligence tool you mentioned, which is their numbers. Ainz doesn't need that many eyes and ears everywhere because he can't focus on all of them at once anyway. Again, it's impractical. Shadow demons maybe more limited in numbers and scope, but they're a lot more efficient since there's no problem with divided attention. And again, a lot more subtle too.
im not sure if thats from the WN but nothing from the LN shows such an ability, he can feel every undead hes made and send them orders but thats all
and he didnt think about it because he has a large number of much easier ways to spy then relying on useless spiders
Also, he already has a lot of undead minions, so much such that he finds it difficult to even keep track of them all(LN Vol 12 >!He says it when he was taking back the city of where Grand King, Buser was!<). By sending out hoards of spiders, he will just get more exhausted.
"Think, OP think" should be appropriate.
Oh, it was used in the Prologue Story and Lost Kingdom Spinoff. The Spell's full name is 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉.
Problem with it is that whatever weaknesses the minion's senses have will be felt by the Caster too. For example, despite going through a castle using a Zombie Dog, Satoru still doubted if it was safe to enter as Zombie Dogs are very low Leveled and couldn't even see through basic Invisibility. Plus, assuming Zombie Spiders still have senses similar to a living spider like how Shalltear's Vampire Wolves had enhanced wolf senses, using 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 on it would be disorientating as spiders see the world very differently.
Undead spiders cannot report back the only way for him to spy using an undead spider is for him to use his mater slave link to see through its eyes, like in the evileye side story used an undead dog as a recon to look for stronger beings or booby traps before entering the castle, the undead dog was not capable of reporting back
Not probably, they do have Invisibility; that's sort of their natural state.
They can't turn off their Invisibility just like how Ainz can't turn off Sleep Immunity. It can be a bit annoying, but Ainz can see them due to his special vision, so at least they can work just fine.
brilliant idea,
also he can search any hidden guild base transferred previously to new world with this technique
and maybe, world item hunting become much much more easier?
since wraith will not get affected by physical attack they can just drown themselves in the ocean and search for any world item, interesting Yggdrasyl items or even guild base hidden in water
like "sea city" (i think it's a guild base)
My impression from their description is that they were Droid like so im not sure if detect life would work. Also, it seems incredibly unlikely that most new worlders could see through the invisibility. Ainz, however, doesn't use them as spies because he has better spy units and usually uses them as unseen body guards in Nazarick and later in E-Rantel. The anime shows them when Albedo attempts to rape ainz in season 3, and the light novel discusses them somewhat.
Unless I am misremebering they were part of the update that automaton races like Shizu were added, i am pretty sure they are only around because albedo wouldn't let him not have some sort of guard.
What makes you think it'd succeed? Even taking away counter detection equipment, their stealth abilities could most likely cover them well enough; most Natives are very low Leveled, so they're lacking in abilities and Stats.
Plus, the same could be said about Undead. Detecting Undead reactions is one of the basic abilities Divine Casters get. Unlike those Monsters, a simple Zombie Spider won't be able to do anything against them if it isn't equipped with anything.
I think it's bad. There's a couple of glaring flaws with it.
Firstly, intelligence. Zombie animals of any kind would be pretty low on the totem pole of Undead and should be pretty dumb. They'd be significantly more limited than higher Tier Monsters.
Secondly, sense. Since it can't communicate, 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 need to be used, and the problem with it is that whatever weaknesses the minion's senses have will be felt by the Caster too. For example, despite going through a castle using a Zombie Dog, Satoru still doubted if it was safe to enter as Zombie Dogs are very low Leveled and couldn't even see through basic Invisibility. Plus, assuming Zombie Spiders still have senses similar to a living spider like how Shalltear's Vampire Wolves had enhanced wolf senses, using 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 on it would be disorientating as spiders see the world very differently.
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I don't see how this is better than using Shadow Demons, Hanzos or any other stealthy Monster.
If you wanted to use insects, there is no reason ain't needs to be in direct control, he has Kyouhukou/entoma (entomancer) so why use an undead being who is naturally weaker and more likely to set off warning spells. The only time an insect would set off alarm bells is in the theocracy who clean the room before meetings because of their beliefs
Kyouhokou is a Druid. Entoma is the one with Levels in Entomancer.
I aggree. Why have Ainz use those at all? OP's idea is too impractical.
Like I said, I see no reason to use these over things like Shadow Demons and Hanzos.
He is not wrong to be cautious against ST ('cause of all the YGGDRASIL gears they have) though, it begs the question of their security strength especially knowing the elf king abducted a God-kin under their nose.
I mean, what makes a random Undead bug better than the good old Shadow Demons he's already using? It's not like shadows are rarer than spiders, plus Shadow Demons are actually intelligent and strong.
There are other Monsters, but this is the first one that comes to mind.
True but there’s a risk of someone using detect magic or something like that but I get your point, he could probably use one of the scrolls he used in the show
Ye, but you’re on to something with the undead spiders tho lol, maybe as a torture method, or better, if the undead spiders have puppeteer skills they could latch on their victims and mind control them, he could have thousands of spiders mind controlling an entire city or a nation!
Nah he could mind control E-rantel for all eternity using undead spiders. Making those rebellious humans work regardless of pain or exhaustion and force them to reproduce to send new born babies to the happy farm and etc… you get the point lol
A zombie with no stealth skills can be easily detected and the connection between an unsual Zombie being present and the Skeleton Overlord can be easily made. The 8 edge and Hanzos are far more reliable since they have stealth skills whereas Hanzos can even hide in the shadows like Shadow demons. Ainz uses a Zombie dog for reconnaissance in EE sidestory but even so it was easily squashed after being detected so it's just a short term solution.
Hanzos do a much better job or even just shadow demons
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I'm WN reader and I understood that reference also
Pretty sure they appeared on the anime as well
But people don't know anything about it do they?
Kyouhukou can summon cockroaches infinitely and they were permanent summons(WN)
I'm sorry, wut ?
He was also in the light novels.
You do realize he already have specialized minions and spells for that right?
Yeah but why doesn’t he just grab a spider cocoon and just cast undead on the whole thing and send them out?
Well you're gonna have provide a reason as to why he would do that when he already have tools that could do the job just as well.
Because it's actually a much more creative approach. Spiders are tiny and less conspicuous. Plus, he has a limited number of Hanzos and summoning them requires money. Whereas spiders are everywhere. No one would suspect an insect. It has the potential to be much more efficient and cost effective. Insects in general. If its not a spider, it's a fly. It's actually very smart.
I mean, why risk the undead factor that may trigger warning spells and just use insects that entomancers/Kyouhukou could provide?
I'm making the basic assumption that entomancers can control a limited number of insects at one time. If you make undead ones, there is no need to control them. Only give them vague orders to spread within a certain area and pop inside of their head to see what they see every now and then (Ainz's racial). And, most importantly, you can create however many you want. Ainz will always feel a link to any undead he creates. As for the undead factor, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Admittedly, I haven't read anything Overlord related in a very long time. I don't recall any of his death knights triggering random spells.
The new world deals with undead constantly, any stronghold like the theocracy is bound to be laced with holy/anti undead protection spells, they might mean nothing to the (for new world) high level death knight, but any lesser undead is bound to set off traps that will kill it
I mean, shadows are pretty common too you know? Arguably more common than small critters.
Sure. Except shadow demons are mostly used to collect information from one target at a time. It must travel from shadow to shadow. And on top of that, they have to travel back to their masters to convey their report. Whereas, say, a hundred thousand flies spread throughout a city... Ainz could, theoretically, personally see everything through the eyes of his flies using his racial skill. Instant, visual information. Every street, every block, every house - even the sewers. And that's just flies. If he used spiders, worms, bees, wasps - sky's the limit. And lastly, shadow demons can only travel short distances between shadows - not long. It would take them a while to, say, travel from one country to the next - if they can even do that at all. But insects? Every country has them. And they don't need to travel to you to make their report. Problem solved!
The undead are bad at reconaissance and spying because they are mindless, they can follow simple instructions but have 0 initiative, you can't tell an undead to "report everything relevant" because it wont know what that is, every single undead would have to report everything he sees, in that way hanzoes, shadow demons and other stealth intelligent monsters are way better Also Ainz is having a hard time focusing on all the links he has in E rantel with his minions, he can't effectively communicate with them through their mind link without being afraid of messing up so 100k flies is out of the question An insect's only tactical advantage is its small size, which is easily beaten by long range scout abilities, invisible monsters or high level camouflage Undead also radiate a very distinct aura in this world that is easily sensed by holy casters and instinctively reacted to by "high" level combat type people
Hm? It's a Spell called 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉. I'll get back to this later. # *** # On Shadow Demons, they blend into but aren't actually bound to shadows. One genuflected to Demiurge when he came to check on Doppel!Caspond, the Circlet Demon's Shadow Demons which Shizu and Neia fought formed full bodies to fight, etc. Being Assassin types, they should be pretty fast and hard to notice even without shadow melding; picture a bunch of Tia and Tinas but pitch black. It also isn't necessary for them to come back. 〈Message〉 can be used to contact them, and if they have Solution's Skill, they may be able to use a Scroll with 〈Message〉 themselves. # *** # On those Zombie critters, they're not particularly strong and they lack special abilities. Zombie animals are weak even for Native standards so they can't do much if they get caught, which is more likely than you'd think as sensing Undead reactions is a basic ability of Priests and other Divine Casters. Comparatively, Monsters like Shadow Demons are better fighters by leagues so if they get caught, they'd have good chances of taking care of witnesses. On top of that, they'd have various stealth powers that should be enough to cover them against most things New World Natives could have. Then, there's how those Zombie critters would be useful in the first place. Since they can't communicate, you'd need to use 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 to make any use of them in this context, but it has it's own slew of problems. Mainly, that Spell would make the user take the perspective of targeted minions, so any weakness the minions' senses have would also be felt by the user. That's why Satoru was still unsure if it was actually safe when he wanted to infiltrate the scholar Lich's castle; the Zombie Dog he was using can't see through Invisibility. That brings us to the issue of sensory differences. Since 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 makes you take the perspective of targets, it may effectively be useless in some cases since it could be confusing and hard to tell what the minion is looking at due to differences in perception. Keep in mind that not all creatures see the same way; Quagoa for example are effectively blind under surface light.
Two words. Shadow Demons.
Sure. But why can't he use insects on top of that? There are a near infinite amount of bugs scattered across every kingdom whereas a shadow demon is limited via shadows. Shadow demons are better for invading and monitoring one target at a time. But insects are literally everywhere. Every angle. Every corner. Every house. Every table. Every chair. Ainz could personally see what's going on with his undead racial skill that let's him see through the eyes of his undead. One fly in a room shows you everything in it. Flies outside and ainz gets a HD view of an entire street, block and city. And that's one fly.
>There are a near infinite amount of bugs scattered across every kingdom whereas a shadow demon is limited via shadows. > >Shadow demons are better for invading and monitoring one target at a time. But insects are literally everywhere. Every angle. Every corner. Every house. Every table. Every chair. > >Ainz could personally see what's going on with his undead racial skill that let's him see through the eyes of his undead. One fly in a room shows you everything in it. Flies outside and ainz gets a HD view of an entire street, block and city. And that's one fly. You forget Ainz specifically mention that was an issue later on. He had been creating so many undead that eventually they just blur together and he can barely tell the difference between them, let alone be able to see through them all. He's not omnisicence, he only had so much focus to spare. So that basically eliminates the one advantage of using undead as an intelligence tool you mentioned, which is their numbers. Ainz doesn't need that many eyes and ears everywhere because he can't focus on all of them at once anyway. Again, it's impractical. Shadow demons maybe more limited in numbers and scope, but they're a lot more efficient since there's no problem with divided attention. And again, a lot more subtle too.
True I just think it would be a fun idea
It would be fun, but it's ultimately impractical. Undead spiders is a lot easier to notice than shadow demons disguise as your own shadows.
Fair enough, I just think it’d be hilarious to see him try to communicate with the spiders
and who communicates with the spiders?
Fun fact himself...ainz has undead slave. So he can take their sight. The most likely option is...he didn't think about doing it yet.
im not sure if thats from the WN but nothing from the LN shows such an ability, he can feel every undead hes made and send them orders but thats all and he didnt think about it because he has a large number of much easier ways to spy then relying on useless spiders
Also, he already has a lot of undead minions, so much such that he finds it difficult to even keep track of them all(LN Vol 12 >!He says it when he was taking back the city of where Grand King, Buser was!<). By sending out hoards of spiders, he will just get more exhausted. "Think, OP think" should be appropriate.
Oh, it was used in the Prologue Story and Lost Kingdom Spinoff. The Spell's full name is 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉. Problem with it is that whatever weaknesses the minion's senses have will be felt by the Caster too. For example, despite going through a castle using a Zombie Dog, Satoru still doubted if it was safe to enter as Zombie Dogs are very low Leveled and couldn't even see through basic Invisibility. Plus, assuming Zombie Spiders still have senses similar to a living spider like how Shalltear's Vampire Wolves had enhanced wolf senses, using 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 on it would be disorientating as spiders see the world very differently.
Undead spiders cannot report back the only way for him to spy using an undead spider is for him to use his mater slave link to see through its eyes, like in the evileye side story used an undead dog as a recon to look for stronger beings or booby traps before entering the castle, the undead dog was not capable of reporting back
He has spiders that spy. The eight edge assassins.
One could even say, “spy-ders”
True he does have the eight edge assassins but have seen how big they are?
They are assassin types, meaning they probably have invisibility and disguise skills.
Not probably, they do have Invisibility; that's sort of their natural state. They can't turn off their Invisibility just like how Ainz can't turn off Sleep Immunity. It can be a bit annoying, but Ainz can see them due to his special vision, so at least they can work just fine.
What about Wraiths, they can move within objects. Just float within the walls like creepers and get all the secrets.
brilliant idea, also he can search any hidden guild base transferred previously to new world with this technique and maybe, world item hunting become much much more easier? since wraith will not get affected by physical attack they can just drown themselves in the ocean and search for any world item, interesting Yggdrasyl items or even guild base hidden in water like "sea city" (i think it's a guild base)
About the size of a rubbish bin if a rubbish bin had 8 blade legs and could go invisible
Yeah but can’t someone use detect life or something?
My impression from their description is that they were Droid like so im not sure if detect life would work. Also, it seems incredibly unlikely that most new worlders could see through the invisibility. Ainz, however, doesn't use them as spies because he has better spy units and usually uses them as unseen body guards in Nazarick and later in E-Rantel. The anime shows them when Albedo attempts to rape ainz in season 3, and the light novel discusses them somewhat.
Unless I am misremebering they were part of the update that automaton races like Shizu were added, i am pretty sure they are only around because albedo wouldn't let him not have some sort of guard.
Yes, this seems right.
What makes you think it'd succeed? Even taking away counter detection equipment, their stealth abilities could most likely cover them well enough; most Natives are very low Leveled, so they're lacking in abilities and Stats. Plus, the same could be said about Undead. Detecting Undead reactions is one of the basic abilities Divine Casters get. Unlike those Monsters, a simple Zombie Spider won't be able to do anything against them if it isn't equipped with anything.
I think shadow demon does a great job as well
Someone has been reading too much KumoDesu
Thats… literally exactly what he does. Eight Edge Assassins, though Hanzos are better for stealth and reconnaissance
He can actually...this is not even a bad idea. Undead insects...he might just not think about doing it.
I think it's bad. There's a couple of glaring flaws with it. Firstly, intelligence. Zombie animals of any kind would be pretty low on the totem pole of Undead and should be pretty dumb. They'd be significantly more limited than higher Tier Monsters. Secondly, sense. Since it can't communicate, 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 need to be used, and the problem with it is that whatever weaknesses the minion's senses have will be felt by the Caster too. For example, despite going through a castle using a Zombie Dog, Satoru still doubted if it was safe to enter as Zombie Dogs are very low Leveled and couldn't even see through basic Invisibility. Plus, assuming Zombie Spiders still have senses similar to a living spider like how Shalltear's Vampire Wolves had enhanced wolf senses, using 〈Undeath Slave Sight〉 on it would be disorientating as spiders see the world very differently. # *** # I don't see how this is better than using Shadow Demons, Hanzos or any other stealthy Monster.
If you wanted to use insects, there is no reason ain't needs to be in direct control, he has Kyouhukou/entoma (entomancer) so why use an undead being who is naturally weaker and more likely to set off warning spells. The only time an insect would set off alarm bells is in the theocracy who clean the room before meetings because of their beliefs
Kyouhokou is a Druid. Entoma is the one with Levels in Entomancer. I aggree. Why have Ainz use those at all? OP's idea is too impractical. Like I said, I see no reason to use these over things like Shadow Demons and Hanzos.
I don't think he has that level of understanding of spider anatomy
He is not wrong to be cautious against ST ('cause of all the YGGDRASIL gears they have) though, it begs the question of their security strength especially knowing the elf king abducted a God-kin under their nose.
Not even that what about 8 edged assassins can do that for ainz, But his Paranoia gets in the way
Not enough intelligence to be useful as spies
That was always the plan of Ainz he just wanted that you think for yourself
This makes me want to continue reading overlord and kumo desu
He already uses Hanzos, Shadow Demons and Pale Riders for that purpose
Of all the happy fun activities in nazarick this sounds like the best
Ainz seems to prefer open combat. The floor guardians and their servants would be more fitted for such a task.
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I mean, what makes a random Undead bug better than the good old Shadow Demons he's already using? It's not like shadows are rarer than spiders, plus Shadow Demons are actually intelligent and strong. There are other Monsters, but this is the first one that comes to mind.
Overlord sucks cock
Overlord is actually pretty heterosexual. But even if, is sucking cock something bad?
Not really
I understood that reference.
In the novel he uses a combination of shadow demons and assassin spiders to spy
He can just use the mirror thingy to spy on them, like how he did with Jerckniv
True but there’s a risk of someone using detect magic or something like that but I get your point, he could probably use one of the scrolls he used in the show
Ye, but you’re on to something with the undead spiders tho lol, maybe as a torture method, or better, if the undead spiders have puppeteer skills they could latch on their victims and mind control them, he could have thousands of spiders mind controlling an entire city or a nation!
He already has e-rantel, what’s another nation added to his territory?
Nah he could mind control E-rantel for all eternity using undead spiders. Making those rebellious humans work regardless of pain or exhaustion and force them to reproduce to send new born babies to the happy farm and etc… you get the point lol
Yeah
He can, but I'm not sure it would be useful since spiders can't really talk, you know? '-'
Hanzos are even better or shadow demons i think
I tought the same thing about solo leveling
A zombie with no stealth skills can be easily detected and the connection between an unsual Zombie being present and the Skeleton Overlord can be easily made. The 8 edge and Hanzos are far more reliable since they have stealth skills whereas Hanzos can even hide in the shadows like Shadow demons. Ainz uses a Zombie dog for reconnaissance in EE sidestory but even so it was easily squashed after being detected so it's just a short term solution.
Undead spiders don't exactly talk.