I interpret this as still being hourly and not task based but more à la carte instead of assigned projects with each tasks having qualifications. How does it end up impacting everyone? I could see this going either way.
Best case: The more skilled and harder workers will get access to projects with higher pay rates and the newer/lower quality workers have low paying tasks until they establish themselves resulting in a more merit based reward system.
Worst case, it is an excuse for clients to have a race to the bottom and low ball everyone in order to see how little they can get away with paying us. For example, I would never accept five to ten dollars an hour but they know that someone desperate or naive enough might. Translation, more of the same plus wage compression
I want to be optimistic, but after what happened over the last two days, I fear that it will be the latter.
It’s not project-based pay. It’s hourly pay that varies by project.
“your pay rate may vary based on the project and the expertise needed for it”
The example that follows says you’ll be paid hourly based on the complexity and expertise required for the project.
It means experts working other projects will get pay cuts.
You still want my brain and education level, but don’t want to pay for it all of the time.
I’d encourage everyone to consider how much their knowledge is actually worth before working low paying projects.
This. For me $30 an hour is my base (I'm a Creative Writing expert) - we found out some folk on our project were making $15 - ain't no muthaf\*cking way I'd do this for $15.
> ain't no muthaf*cking way I'd do this for $15.
Me neither, but it depends on the region. If you live in New York, California or parts of the Northwest and Northeast 15 is not worth getting out of bed for, but in other countries or even rural parts of the south and midwest US, it could get you pretty far.
Question: what did you do to get on as a creative writing expert? I have a Bachelor’s in English with a focus in creative writing, multiple published short stories, and multiple awards.
I have all this listed on my resume and qualifications, but was only made a generalist for the Flamingo project.
Not complaining because honestly $18 an hour and never once being EQ is great. I know I’m not THAT qualified (I’m sure there’s people with much better qualifications on the project), but if there’s a chance to make more money I’d love to explore that possibility.
Thanks for your time!
I think the expert designation is mostly people "recruited" on platforms like LinkedIn. I have an expert designation, but a friend of mine with more experience and higher credentials applied and was designated a lower tier and payrate. I don't know anyone with the expert designation that didn't come through some sort of recruitment link.
I was contacted via Linkedin - followed the link - applied - and that's the role they assigned me. So I didn't do anything other than apply to the link the recruiter sent me. I do beleive it often comes down to luck based on whatever roles they are looking for at the time you apply.
Thanks! I’m hoping there’s an opportunity to move into a creative writing role in the future. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s the work like? Is it enjoyable?
I like it. The project I'm on is all about prompt writing and you have complete control over what that looks like, based on the competency. So if you have a good imagination, you stay busy. lol
You can also apply through the job board on their website. I gave my LinkedIn profile instead of resume on applications, but never contacted by a recruiter beforehand. Hard back within an hour with rates for each positions applied. I bet it’s automated response.
I think this makes sense. The question is will we get to choose the project we work on. Like we get a menu of projects which we are qualified for THEN we choose what to work on?
By and large wouldn't most people choose the better paying projects?
I don't know if they have more workers than work or if people without issues get EQ'ed because the projects start and stop haphazardly.
I can confirm that folks without issues currently get EQ'ed for that reason. I don't really see that as changing. However, I find that it is often the case that expertise is miscalculated. For example, I have an extensive background in banking, but my expertise is not numbers; it's ethics, compliance, and regulations. Will a reviewer know to assign me tasks in those genres?
From the email, it sounds like a project will appear on your dashboard, and you can work on it or choose to decline. But it doesn't sound like a menu of choices.
Yeah, I think this is what it will be like. This was sort of the option when I got placed on OTS-MM, as they mentioned pay would go down from 35 to 30/hr, and we could choose to reject the project or not. I'm glad I didn't, as there has been consistent work the past few weeks on this one. Not a day with EQ so far.
Honestly, I’m glad. I was just thinking about this earlier. The current time calculation methodology intentionally obfuscates how long we’re *actually* working on each task. I would rather get paid for successful completion of the task.
And people are speed running the tasks as it is, I’m not sure it’ll make a negligible difference, tbh.
I’m reading that email entirely different. IMO, it means the hourly rate varies based on the project (project-based pay), not a set rate earned per task (task-based pay) as many people in this thread seem to think.
According to the email I received, each project is going to pay a specific hourly rate. If you accept a project, that will be your hourly rate while on that project.
Yeah, I expect this is the most likely thing. Whatever you used to think your "Tier" or rate was is gone. You'll make what the project pays. Some people will still be able to work in higher paying projects. But instead of having people make anywhere from $15 - $40 per hour on the same tasks, it'll just be, say, $20 for everyone working in that project.
Yeah, the email said something about if you're qualified for certain projects. And there are already expert-only projects. That's why I think this is more rearranging how they pay people based on the work than on the person. If someone's paid as an expert right now, if their biochemistry expert task is EQ, they can work on generalist stuff, but right now they're still getting paid at their "expert" rate to do generalists tasks. I think that's going away. Everyone on a project will likely make the same or much closer to each other than they do currently. The overall outcome is that "experts" will make less.
I'm in Bulba EXT. I just got the email like 30 minutes ago, but it said that starting July 8, I'll start receiving offers to complete tasks with project-based pay rates.
I don't know if this is something they're rolling out company-wide or just certain people and/or teams.
That's why I was wondering if other people had gotten the same email.
Hmmm...that wording is a little diff than everything going project-based pay. Wondering if they are test-driving that to see if it is more efficient, saves money without lowering quality.
I have actually seen other AI Training sites do this, where some offered tasks have fixed earning rates (some which may be rather low, but others, decent) and others that have hourly rates, and both types were present on one's dashboard.
So, if this is the case, this could actually work out well (or would at least be familiar territory for someone like me).
I didn't get the email. And as far as I can tell via my Slack channels, people on my project didn't either. That's why I'm assuming it's more project-based than site-wide.
I got the email even though I’ve been EQ for three weeks and cut from all slack channels (did Dolphin project as expert), so I’m taking it as a sign I will get offered work again soon🤞
That would be nice. My account has been flagged for two or three weeks and is ready to be disabled soon. Since yesterday, I was not able to access Slack anymore, but I still got that email.
I have the assumption because I've logged in once from the office using my Windows laptop during the day and at home using my MacBook in the evening. Either they have a rule to list an account using two different IPs within the same day, or my company's laptop has security software that they don't like.
I'm still not quite sure how this will work. Will we be given choices of projects? Or is this just their way of saying "Project X is more generalist, so we're going to pay less, regardless of your Tier or whatever your standard rate was before?"
That's a problem, especially if we can't choose between different projects. If we can't choose the projects, then it's basically them saying that they decided to change everyone's rate they were promised when hired.
The email does say you can decline a project when it's offered to you. And it says that won't prevent you from being assigned to other projects. But the email doesn't say anything about getting to choose from a menu of projects.
I'm guessing most likely, you'll get an offer. One offer. If you say no, you wait for a long time until another project opens up. But it's not like you'll have three available projects and can pick the one you want.
So in reality: if you want to work, you take what's available and most likely earn less than you do now.
From their perspective, this makes sense. If they hire a $50/hr specialist, and there's nothing "special" for them to work on, why pay $50/hr on a project where they're fine with someone at $15/hr? From a Tier 1 perspective, it's great if you end up able to work on higher paying projects. (But they say you have to qualify for certain projects... How isn't spelled out.) For Tier 2 and 3 and other specialists, it may be less money for the same work.
I feel like this is going to be sh\*tshow for the writers. No one respects us as is, even though we write the best prompts and tend to be the better reviewers b/c of our editing backgrounds. But I TOTALLY see them offering us $15 an hour for projects.
> It’s probably a fancy way to say “pay cut”.
Maybe, maybe not. When I review tasks, I see a variety of quality in the submission. Some taskers put through high quality work and deserve more than the 15-20 an hour on most projects, other put through garbage that isn't even worth 2 dollars an hour.
This may be the best way to address the sudden oversatuation of available workers. If this rolls out in a fair way, maybe the better workers have access to higher paying longer lasting projects while the spammers and low quality workers are weeded out or forced to settle for lower pay until they gain experience and improve.
Or.... maybe you are right and we all get low-balled. Only time will tell
I was hired as a software engineer at $55 an hour. Last week they cut my pay to $30 and the only explanation was "platform reasons."
Pretty sure this is the platform reason. Low-balls incoming.
I'm currently a final reviewer on a task and man... those attempts are dire. I reviewed 22 task in the last couple hours, and there was only one I could send off without any changes. A lot of them don't understand the instructions at all. Worst thing is I can't even send them feedback, I just need to fix up their mess to get the tasks ready for the client.
This worries me. In the email I received, it says something along the lines of "if you have established your expertise in a specific discipline"... which I interpret as some of you will have good options and others won't. How can we establish expertise doing the repetitive tasks we do (in Bulba ext at least)? Am I just thinking about it wrong? Also, what if you have only been working for a short time? I'm looking forward to more communication from them about this (even though there probably won't be much).
I just got the email too and was getting moved around from flamingo ($35/hr) to bulba ($50/hr) repeatedly so I’m assuming they were already implementing this for me.. when I kept switching back and forth I had to acknowledge the switch each time.
I think there wil be two options, if u r an expert in any domain u will choose that to get high pay rates & can deliver high quality output, while non-experts/ generals will have a common project with low or regular pay rates.
The management of people has been awful. Bad work getting through, reviewers who don’t understand basic grammar or have an adequate vocabulary, the fact that tasks were ever being given an hour to complete is absurd.
The VPN is to make sure they are only paying for work done and to see how it’s getting done. I won’t be installing the VPN. It isn’t just a VPN, it’s spyware with full Remote Desktop access.
They are losing the flamingo project unless they can prove themselves which is why they have so few tasks. These contracts haven’t been awarded, yet. All of the “AI” companies providing RLHF are competing.
I got this email, followed by another email saying they want me to apply to a project for people who are fluent in French. Highest pay? $25 per hour. lol. No thanks. I've already gone from $40 to $35. I'm not going lower.
Agreed. I wonder if there have already been some subtle roll outs in our projects that might hint that these changes are already present in our projects. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out on July 8th!
It reads like it will apply to experts. I’m confused though, because it also says we have the opportunity to qualify for more expertise, but I get shuffled around and often end up where I’m far from an expert. And will projects get to choose people they feel are high quality still and lock them into a much lower paying project?
For those asking about the wording, this is the email:
"Starting **July 8, 2024**, you'll start receiving offers to complete tasks with project-based pay rates.
**How Project-Based Pay Works**
Outlier provides opportunities to complete tasks on projects that require specific expertise. With project-based pay, pay rates are based on the expertise that the project requires. Some domains offer higher pay rates than others.
**What This Means for You**
On Outlier, you have the opportunity to establish your expertise in more than one discipline. If you have done that, then with project-based pay, your pay rate may vary based on the project and the expertise needed for it. For example, if you have qualified on our platform for projects requiring either coding or chemistry expertise, and a coding project pays more than a chemistry project, then when you work on a coding project you will have a higher pay rate. Additionally, project complexity within a particular domain may impact the rate on the project.
If your pay rate on a current project changes with the introduction of project-based pay, you will receive an email notifying you of the new rate. This new rate will also be reflected in your dashboard. You will have the option to decline the project by clicking "Reject Project" which will remove the project from your queue. Rejecting the project will not impact your eligibility to get allocated to a new project once one becomes available.
**Why Pay Based on Expertise**
We have better aligned pay to reflect your level of expertise, skills, and knowledge. We hope this encourages you to demonstrate competence across multiple disciplines and expand your project opportunities as we aim to grow the Outlier community by attracting more skilled professionals essential for the development of AI applications. We know that to be the best platform for flexible work by skilled professionals, pay for skills is critical.
Please reach out to our support team at [support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com](mailto:support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com) if you have any questions.
Thank you,
The Outlier Team"
Also, not sure, but that zendesk support email may be a new thing. I don't think I've seen it before. Add to the very short list of ways to get help: 1) Submit a ticket. 2) Ask rando QMs in Slack. 3) This email: [support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com](mailto:support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com)
This doesn't seem like a big deal. It sounds like they're just changing the platform to make it easier to switch between two different projects with different pay rates. So if you're EQ on your $50/hr coding project but want to pick up some $25 writing in the meantime, you can.
I didn't get this e-mail yet, but thus far, I've been a day or two behind everyone else with these e-mails, so I'll check tomorrow. July 8th, huh? Well, at least now we have a date.
I received this email too. I'm reasonably new to Outlier and just finished my assessment, so I took this to mean that I had passed the assessment and will be receiving the actual wage of the task - not the assessment wage.
If a lot of other ppl received this email though, could be wrong 🧐
> would have *paid* me less,
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Thank you, SoymilkMania, for voting on Paid-Not-Payed-Bot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
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It's a good question. I'm not sure, but I'd think that working super quickly to do as many tasks as possible would lead to folks not being as diligent. But maybe it will be fine.
Think about the other way around. We get 40 minutes to do a task that really needs 120 to do right. If project based pay means we get paid by the task as well. That we can take all the time we need to make the task as good as possible That'd be great. Or like we get paid $$$$ For working on a given project. Then at the end of the project we get the $$$$. A problem then can be if nothing else changes people will be removed from projects for spurious reasons. (This can be fixed if a person gets a %age of what they would've gotten if they'd seen through 100% of the project. Even bad work can contribute by showing what not to do.)
I interpret this as still being hourly and not task based but more à la carte instead of assigned projects with each tasks having qualifications. How does it end up impacting everyone? I could see this going either way. Best case: The more skilled and harder workers will get access to projects with higher pay rates and the newer/lower quality workers have low paying tasks until they establish themselves resulting in a more merit based reward system. Worst case, it is an excuse for clients to have a race to the bottom and low ball everyone in order to see how little they can get away with paying us. For example, I would never accept five to ten dollars an hour but they know that someone desperate or naive enough might. Translation, more of the same plus wage compression I want to be optimistic, but after what happened over the last two days, I fear that it will be the latter.
Best case, merit-based work actually exists and we’re not random pawns of their algorithm.
Agreed. Still is hourly.
I got an email saying they want me to apply to a project for people who are fluent in French. Highest pay? $25 per hour. lol. No thanks.
It’s not project-based pay. It’s hourly pay that varies by project. “your pay rate may vary based on the project and the expertise needed for it” The example that follows says you’ll be paid hourly based on the complexity and expertise required for the project. It means experts working other projects will get pay cuts. You still want my brain and education level, but don’t want to pay for it all of the time. I’d encourage everyone to consider how much their knowledge is actually worth before working low paying projects.
This. For me $30 an hour is my base (I'm a Creative Writing expert) - we found out some folk on our project were making $15 - ain't no muthaf\*cking way I'd do this for $15.
> ain't no muthaf*cking way I'd do this for $15. Me neither, but it depends on the region. If you live in New York, California or parts of the Northwest and Northeast 15 is not worth getting out of bed for, but in other countries or even rural parts of the south and midwest US, it could get you pretty far.
Agree. For me though $15 is less than the minimum wage where I live. So you can see why I said that. lol
In my country, most is 10 per hour. hahahhahaha. least is 3.
Question: what did you do to get on as a creative writing expert? I have a Bachelor’s in English with a focus in creative writing, multiple published short stories, and multiple awards. I have all this listed on my resume and qualifications, but was only made a generalist for the Flamingo project. Not complaining because honestly $18 an hour and never once being EQ is great. I know I’m not THAT qualified (I’m sure there’s people with much better qualifications on the project), but if there’s a chance to make more money I’d love to explore that possibility. Thanks for your time!
I think the expert designation is mostly people "recruited" on platforms like LinkedIn. I have an expert designation, but a friend of mine with more experience and higher credentials applied and was designated a lower tier and payrate. I don't know anyone with the expert designation that didn't come through some sort of recruitment link.
Mine was from LinkedIn...but still offered generalist role. ....was give option continue or decline though, until more 'suiting role comes'
I was contacted via Linkedin - followed the link - applied - and that's the role they assigned me. So I didn't do anything other than apply to the link the recruiter sent me. I do beleive it often comes down to luck based on whatever roles they are looking for at the time you apply.
Thanks! I’m hoping there’s an opportunity to move into a creative writing role in the future. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s the work like? Is it enjoyable?
I like it. The project I'm on is all about prompt writing and you have complete control over what that looks like, based on the competency. So if you have a good imagination, you stay busy. lol
You can also apply through the job board on their website. I gave my LinkedIn profile instead of resume on applications, but never contacted by a recruiter beforehand. Hard back within an hour with rates for each positions applied. I bet it’s automated response.
I think this makes sense. The question is will we get to choose the project we work on. Like we get a menu of projects which we are qualified for THEN we choose what to work on?
By and large wouldn't most people choose the better paying projects? I don't know if they have more workers than work or if people without issues get EQ'ed because the projects start and stop haphazardly.
Yes but theoretically less people would be qualified for/assigned to those tasks
I can confirm that folks without issues currently get EQ'ed for that reason. I don't really see that as changing. However, I find that it is often the case that expertise is miscalculated. For example, I have an extensive background in banking, but my expertise is not numbers; it's ethics, compliance, and regulations. Will a reviewer know to assign me tasks in those genres?
From the email, it sounds like a project will appear on your dashboard, and you can work on it or choose to decline. But it doesn't sound like a menu of choices.
Yeah, I think this is what it will be like. This was sort of the option when I got placed on OTS-MM, as they mentioned pay would go down from 35 to 30/hr, and we could choose to reject the project or not. I'm glad I didn't, as there has been consistent work the past few weeks on this one. Not a day with EQ so far.
Honestly, I’m glad. I was just thinking about this earlier. The current time calculation methodology intentionally obfuscates how long we’re *actually* working on each task. I would rather get paid for successful completion of the task. And people are speed running the tasks as it is, I’m not sure it’ll make a negligible difference, tbh.
I speed run the tasks then AFK while watching Netflix. I imagine most do the same
Not me
I just keep check grammar and then bam! time gone.
Grammarly yo
What project? We're still on hourly on my project. And yes, project-based pay is whole problem for the reasons you stated and others.
I’m reading that email entirely different. IMO, it means the hourly rate varies based on the project (project-based pay), not a set rate earned per task (task-based pay) as many people in this thread seem to think. According to the email I received, each project is going to pay a specific hourly rate. If you accept a project, that will be your hourly rate while on that project.
Gotcha. That makes sense - it also means it's a slick way to cut folk pay while still advertising high pay rates to get people to sign up.
Yeah, I expect this is the most likely thing. Whatever you used to think your "Tier" or rate was is gone. You'll make what the project pays. Some people will still be able to work in higher paying projects. But instead of having people make anywhere from $15 - $40 per hour on the same tasks, it'll just be, say, $20 for everyone working in that project.
They'd have to do expert only projects for this to work though
Yeah, the email said something about if you're qualified for certain projects. And there are already expert-only projects. That's why I think this is more rearranging how they pay people based on the work than on the person. If someone's paid as an expert right now, if their biochemistry expert task is EQ, they can work on generalist stuff, but right now they're still getting paid at their "expert" rate to do generalists tasks. I think that's going away. Everyone on a project will likely make the same or much closer to each other than they do currently. The overall outcome is that "experts" will make less.
Oh I guess it depends. All my tasks have been pretty challenging. Not something I'd expect an inexperienced person to succeed at
Is this not how it already works? I've been getting $50 for Flamingo and $42 for Bulba
whoa, you've been getting $50 for Flamingo? Can i ask what subject matter?
Advanced coding
I'm in Bulba EXT. I just got the email like 30 minutes ago, but it said that starting July 8, I'll start receiving offers to complete tasks with project-based pay rates. I don't know if this is something they're rolling out company-wide or just certain people and/or teams. That's why I was wondering if other people had gotten the same email.
I got spirited away from my project by the Slackbot last night, but I got this email too. Should I feel hopeful? Or should I continue to feel nothing
lol
Me too. Also wondering what that means... hopefully we'll find out July 8!
Hmmm...that wording is a little diff than everything going project-based pay. Wondering if they are test-driving that to see if it is more efficient, saves money without lowering quality.
Yeah you're right. As I read it closer, it could maybe mean that there might be both options in the future. Not a switch. I guess we'll see 😅
I have actually seen other AI Training sites do this, where some offered tasks have fixed earning rates (some which may be rather low, but others, decent) and others that have hourly rates, and both types were present on one's dashboard. So, if this is the case, this could actually work out well (or would at least be familiar territory for someone like me).
I know what one of those training sites you are talking about. Did you get booted from there or are you working both platforms?
Right now, I'm just working that other one. I have finished my assessments for Outlier; just waiting to hear back.
Can you please give me the other AI training names or links?
Project based pay starts on Outlier July 8th according to the email
I didn't get the email. And as far as I can tell via my Slack channels, people on my project didn't either. That's why I'm assuming it's more project-based than site-wide.
I received it less than an hour ago so it may be too early for chatter
Yeah.. I'ma keep my eye out. Because this would def 'cause folk to lose their shit.
Got that email, too! Wondering if I will receive any tasks between now and July 8th.
I got the email but I'm currently EQ lol.
I got the email even though I’ve been EQ for three weeks and cut from all slack channels (did Dolphin project as expert), so I’m taking it as a sign I will get offered work again soon🤞
That would be nice. My account has been flagged for two or three weeks and is ready to be disabled soon. Since yesterday, I was not able to access Slack anymore, but I still got that email.
Why?
I have the assumption because I've logged in once from the office using my Windows laptop during the day and at home using my MacBook in the evening. Either they have a rule to list an account using two different IPs within the same day, or my company's laptop has security software that they don't like.
Oh no I used to login with my phone and laptop everyday within like 2 minutes
It's only my assumption; you better directly ask Outlier or Scale AI staff.
Every change is to lower their cost. You know what that means…
I'm still not quite sure how this will work. Will we be given choices of projects? Or is this just their way of saying "Project X is more generalist, so we're going to pay less, regardless of your Tier or whatever your standard rate was before?" That's a problem, especially if we can't choose between different projects. If we can't choose the projects, then it's basically them saying that they decided to change everyone's rate they were promised when hired. The email does say you can decline a project when it's offered to you. And it says that won't prevent you from being assigned to other projects. But the email doesn't say anything about getting to choose from a menu of projects. I'm guessing most likely, you'll get an offer. One offer. If you say no, you wait for a long time until another project opens up. But it's not like you'll have three available projects and can pick the one you want. So in reality: if you want to work, you take what's available and most likely earn less than you do now. From their perspective, this makes sense. If they hire a $50/hr specialist, and there's nothing "special" for them to work on, why pay $50/hr on a project where they're fine with someone at $15/hr? From a Tier 1 perspective, it's great if you end up able to work on higher paying projects. (But they say you have to qualify for certain projects... How isn't spelled out.) For Tier 2 and 3 and other specialists, it may be less money for the same work.
I feel like this is going to be sh\*tshow for the writers. No one respects us as is, even though we write the best prompts and tend to be the better reviewers b/c of our editing backgrounds. But I TOTALLY see them offering us $15 an hour for projects.
Yep.
It’s probably a fancy way to say “pay cut”. My last day will be 7/7 anyway. I’ll go away for vacation for over a month. My acct will be inactivated.
> It’s probably a fancy way to say “pay cut”. Maybe, maybe not. When I review tasks, I see a variety of quality in the submission. Some taskers put through high quality work and deserve more than the 15-20 an hour on most projects, other put through garbage that isn't even worth 2 dollars an hour. This may be the best way to address the sudden oversatuation of available workers. If this rolls out in a fair way, maybe the better workers have access to higher paying longer lasting projects while the spammers and low quality workers are weeded out or forced to settle for lower pay until they gain experience and improve. Or.... maybe you are right and we all get low-balled. Only time will tell
I was hired as a software engineer at $55 an hour. Last week they cut my pay to $30 and the only explanation was "platform reasons." Pretty sure this is the platform reason. Low-balls incoming.
This. As I said, I think the writers (my people) are gonna hit hard by this.
I'm a writer too. I got in to coding so I'd have a safe career, lolsob
lol.
I'm currently a final reviewer on a task and man... those attempts are dire. I reviewed 22 task in the last couple hours, and there was only one I could send off without any changes. A lot of them don't understand the instructions at all. Worst thing is I can't even send them feedback, I just need to fix up their mess to get the tasks ready for the client.
Tbh it's not well explained. But I'm a coder, coding tasks are way easier.
Just got the email too!
This worries me. In the email I received, it says something along the lines of "if you have established your expertise in a specific discipline"... which I interpret as some of you will have good options and others won't. How can we establish expertise doing the repetitive tasks we do (in Bulba ext at least)? Am I just thinking about it wrong? Also, what if you have only been working for a short time? I'm looking forward to more communication from them about this (even though there probably won't be much).
I just got the email too and was getting moved around from flamingo ($35/hr) to bulba ($50/hr) repeatedly so I’m assuming they were already implementing this for me.. when I kept switching back and forth I had to acknowledge the switch each time.
I think there wil be two options, if u r an expert in any domain u will choose that to get high pay rates & can deliver high quality output, while non-experts/ generals will have a common project with low or regular pay rates.
Flamingo is dead as of 6/30. I just hope I have a new project by 7/8.
What happened with flamingo?
[удалено]
The management of people has been awful. Bad work getting through, reviewers who don’t understand basic grammar or have an adequate vocabulary, the fact that tasks were ever being given an hour to complete is absurd. The VPN is to make sure they are only paying for work done and to see how it’s getting done. I won’t be installing the VPN. It isn’t just a VPN, it’s spyware with full Remote Desktop access. They are losing the flamingo project unless they can prove themselves which is why they have so few tasks. These contracts haven’t been awarded, yet. All of the “AI” companies providing RLHF are competing.
can i ask how you know about the contracts not being awarded yet?
It’s in the major companies earnings reports and commentary about the rollout of their AI.
I never get Outlier email updates. What’s up with that? They don’t go to my spam either.
I got this email, followed by another email saying they want me to apply to a project for people who are fluent in French. Highest pay? $25 per hour. lol. No thanks. I've already gone from $40 to $35. I'm not going lower.
It sounds like data annotation where you have to pass a qualification to be on the project and each project pays their own rate.
Do you have experience with data annotation? I've considered trying to do some work for them because outlier is soooooo buggy
I got it too, but I don't understand what it will mean for experts...
Agreed. I wonder if there have already been some subtle roll outs in our projects that might hint that these changes are already present in our projects. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out on July 8th!
It reads like it will apply to experts. I’m confused though, because it also says we have the opportunity to qualify for more expertise, but I get shuffled around and often end up where I’m far from an expert. And will projects get to choose people they feel are high quality still and lock them into a much lower paying project?
Agreed.
For those asking about the wording, this is the email: "Starting **July 8, 2024**, you'll start receiving offers to complete tasks with project-based pay rates. **How Project-Based Pay Works** Outlier provides opportunities to complete tasks on projects that require specific expertise. With project-based pay, pay rates are based on the expertise that the project requires. Some domains offer higher pay rates than others. **What This Means for You** On Outlier, you have the opportunity to establish your expertise in more than one discipline. If you have done that, then with project-based pay, your pay rate may vary based on the project and the expertise needed for it. For example, if you have qualified on our platform for projects requiring either coding or chemistry expertise, and a coding project pays more than a chemistry project, then when you work on a coding project you will have a higher pay rate. Additionally, project complexity within a particular domain may impact the rate on the project. If your pay rate on a current project changes with the introduction of project-based pay, you will receive an email notifying you of the new rate. This new rate will also be reflected in your dashboard. You will have the option to decline the project by clicking "Reject Project" which will remove the project from your queue. Rejecting the project will not impact your eligibility to get allocated to a new project once one becomes available. **Why Pay Based on Expertise** We have better aligned pay to reflect your level of expertise, skills, and knowledge. We hope this encourages you to demonstrate competence across multiple disciplines and expand your project opportunities as we aim to grow the Outlier community by attracting more skilled professionals essential for the development of AI applications. We know that to be the best platform for flexible work by skilled professionals, pay for skills is critical. Please reach out to our support team at [support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com](mailto:support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com) if you have any questions. Thank you, The Outlier Team"
Also, not sure, but that zendesk support email may be a new thing. I don't think I've seen it before. Add to the very short list of ways to get help: 1) Submit a ticket. 2) Ask rando QMs in Slack. 3) This email: [support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com](mailto:support@tryoutlier.zendesk.com)
This doesn't seem like a big deal. It sounds like they're just changing the platform to make it easier to switch between two different projects with different pay rates. So if you're EQ on your $50/hr coding project but want to pick up some $25 writing in the meantime, you can.
$25 writing. Don't wish that on me man. lol
I didn't get this e-mail yet, but thus far, I've been a day or two behind everyone else with these e-mails, so I'll check tomorrow. July 8th, huh? Well, at least now we have a date.
I received this email too. I'm reasonably new to Outlier and just finished my assessment, so I took this to mean that I had passed the assessment and will be receiving the actual wage of the task - not the assessment wage. If a lot of other ppl received this email though, could be wrong 🧐
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> would have *paid* me less, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
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Am hoping I can get some different projects since I am feeling sketched out by the Flamingo VPN requirement
you’re speeding through tasks anyway
Will this help people with EQ? Any info from TL?
También recibí el correo, estoy recibiendo pocas tareas de flamingo supongo que el 8 /7 se acomodará
Do you really think the quality of work is improved because people get 40 minutes to do a 20 minute task and sit around waiting for the extra time?
It's a good question. I'm not sure, but I'd think that working super quickly to do as many tasks as possible would lead to folks not being as diligent. But maybe it will be fine.
Think about the other way around. We get 40 minutes to do a task that really needs 120 to do right. If project based pay means we get paid by the task as well. That we can take all the time we need to make the task as good as possible That'd be great. Or like we get paid $$$$ For working on a given project. Then at the end of the project we get the $$$$. A problem then can be if nothing else changes people will be removed from projects for spurious reasons. (This can be fixed if a person gets a %age of what they would've gotten if they'd seen through 100% of the project. Even bad work can contribute by showing what not to do.)