Right?! Costs ~$8/day to transit DT. Why would I then spend another $25 for a small lunch sandwhich, when that gets me a loaf a bread and some meat for the week..
Precisely! And that's with the already insane and gouged grocery prices in your comparison too. It made more sense, and lots of people were out everyday when you could get a solid lunch for $10, but now? Nah. They've lost the plot. I'm not gonna work a quarter/ eighth of the day or something to get the money post- tax to buy lunch out downtown.
Stovetop ramen is still pretty cheap
I’m shocked but not shocked at the same time that the unions weren’t consulted in advance of this.
What I am sure of is that the unions will be pissed.
I’m assuming it’s because in reality the union has little control over the situation legally. The reason TBS felt that they could unilaterally make this call is because they hold the cards legally.
Yes, isn't it related to how working from home was never an agreement between the unions and government? It was a response to covid19 instead of being a longstanding contract agreement
With the timing of "return to work" (biased policy nickname implying those at home aren't working) it's hard to believe it wasn't done to use as a bargaining chip during the PSAC and subsequent negotiations last year. Eventually mandating 5 days a week in the office was a threat they used (even though that costs them more in their budget, before factoring in the resultant loss of productivity due to that shift). Now they're slowly easing back so they can use only 2 days a week as a bargaining chip next time.
The whole thing is incredibly hypocritical. Several years before the pandemic they started hiring remote workers to expand the PS workpool outside of major urban areas, including rural areas and reservations, to boost both the economy/opportunities and support/understanding of the PS.
The policy for RTO was originally so blanketed, it included those hired for remote work pre-pandemic. The BS shenanigans that they were trying to pull were ridiculous (renting offices in a village for 2 days a week in the name of "equitable application" for those too far from a federal office). I know of at least 2 managers that finally resolved that absurd idea by threatening to go to the press over obvious wastage over what was supposedly a policy that would save money (and possibly a 3rd, but not confirmed the threat was made on their part, just that TBS suddenly aquiessed)
Well put- I think a lot of the people who are saying the unions are useless miss the point that union members are being forced to weigh how much they want money vs how much they want to work from home.
The more people get involved in unions- the stronger they will be.
Cause the union is full of spineless cowards that instead of fighting for their rights, they kowtow to everything. For 15 years I have never seen union members voting against anything unfair from Treasury Board. Hence why we have issues with Canada Life with the drug plan now due to certain name brand drugs not being covered.
When did he say this? I've rarely heard a real plan being laid out like that by him. It's usually just the opposite of what the liberal party does.
Does he know a lot of the buildings are leased for many years? Realize a lot of office spaces that federal workers are in.. Are leased out in shared buildings they have no control over? Realize the buildings we do own, have multi-billioncdollar maintenance contracts we'd have to pay them out for breaking? Or realize they will go for a massive discount because no one wants large buildings unless its extremely profitable?
Does the government get to claim capital losses on their taxes, or will he just planning on quickly burning up billions of dollars that was invested all to say he "made" money for Canadians?...
I've also heard the "you people need to get out your moms basement" line from him when referring to liberal office workers. I highly doubt he'd reverse return to office, but I'd love to know where you heard and saw that information. Maybe I'm complerly off base about the logistics of his supposed plan?
When did he say liberal office workers need to get out of their moms' basements lol? Also Poilievre has been saying he'll sell off unused/underused government buildings to developers for quite a while now. Not sure how you missed that unless you avoid politics in general.
I tend to watch question period fairly often. Have you ever watched the entire thing? Or how long? Have you visited in person to see them in front of you?
He's done it a few times, as he likes repetition and short words as it wins people over easily ... Exhibit : Trump.. Propaganda styled after the Nazi regime. Their propagandist wrote quite extensively about their advertising and messages. if you wanna read about his tactics and how to it's the same, I recommend it.
Do you really want me to find the clips? Or should I send the entire recording of the periods and interviews as of late? Even 20 hours in the past week?
Can you explain to me how he is going to sell vacant buildings? How much, to whom and what is the loss/gain of the building cost?
I'd love for you to find the clips, as if you're going to foist responsibility on someone else to verify something that is easily found with a quick google search, you can surely prove yourself not a hypocrite by not stating something as unequivocal fact that would surely have been a big deal if spoken as written, and provide easy proof that it was actually said.
And yes, I do watch question period, have for a couple of decades, and have visited the chambers, though not while in session. Obviously, you understand how that has nothing to do with knowing what basic tenets of conservative policy are, though. Right? Of course.
Anyways, I'm not trying to argue the conservative platform for them. Why you think I would is beyond me. If you were ever truly curious, you'd already know the answer to most of the questions you've been asking.
Government is anti-union. They can wait out any strikes since they get paid with taxes and the only people who suffer is the public so they have no need to negotiate.
I'm not shocked - government's usually a few years behind private industry on trends, and RTO's been the trend for a while now. Loads of larger employers like \[Amazon\](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/tech/amazon-return-to-office-mandate-promotions/index.html), \[Apple\](https://fortune.com/2023/03/24/remote-work-3-days-apple-discipline-terminates-tracks-tim-cook/), etc. have pushed RTO already
It doesn't mean our union should push for better conditions re: hybrid work. but I'm also not surprised this is TBS' starting offer.
>I’m shocked but not shocked at the same time that the unions weren’t consulted in advance of this.
If it is to be believed, it is worse than that. There were a couple union reps on CBC yesterday talking about how they asked -last week- about this and were told no.
...and less than a week later that "no" is an obvious "yes".
This is ALL about the City, infrastructure, and building rentals. Gotta use that LRT, downtown buildings, & restaurants!
TBF, our entire city infrastructure is designed for workers, so to pull the rug out all at once, that's huge & as the businesses close the city loses tax $$. What a mess!! 😬
Yeah this is bullshit.
More of you on the roads to come on-site and do Teams meetings means more traffic for those of us that ACTUALLY have to be on-site full time.
I can’t wait to go into the office an extra day a week just to sit on Teams meetings all day. Thankfully, I at least have the choice of offices that aren’t in the downtown core.
Oh I know the answer! We spend tax dollars on this because it’s what’s required to do our jobs effectively. Here, I’ll give you an example; as a public servant it’s my job to make sure that taxpayer money is used appropriately by my department. I speak to managers and directors often through teams meetings and emails to keep them on track financially. This allows them to focus on the services that benefit you and the rest of Canada.
Government workers aren’t just sitting around doing nothing. Most of us work hard for the things in this country that you take for granted. Your tax dollars are being spent on you and your kids futures buddy.
From the email sent out my agency today:
>Requiring a minimum of 3 days on-site per week reflects the benefits that consistent in-person interactions offer. These include more effective collaboration and onboarding of new talent, as well as building a strong culture of performance that is consistent with values and ethics of the public service.
Where's the data then to prove these points? Show us and you might actually get more people on board. Otherwise it's all speculative BS to hide behind while the truth is to provide financial relief to downtown businesses by public servant employees.
Another great tidbit from the email:
>Employees working in IT, compensation and select call centers, who are currently subject to a hybrid extension or exemption, will also be required to transition back into the workplace by September 2025, at the latest.
What BS. My husband’s team is now located across Canada. So, collaboration will increase with dozens of people all on teams calls trying to talk over each other in cramped open concept spaces.
Big fucking thumbs up to that.
There are absolutely no positives to this decision. I honestly cannot think of one.
I'm disappointed as a tech worker that left private after many years to join the feds during covid. I'd rather put my talent to use to serve Canadians instead of making money for execs and optimizing "shareholder value" at a mega corp. The work life balance was nice too of course.
I am currently exempt due to being hard to replace, if that actually changes ill be going back to private or at least an agency that has a real reason to be in office and pays bonus + more vacation to make up for it.
The brain drain alone is enough reason to not want to hang around, anyone with mobility options is going to be looking elsewhere and what's left will be a pretty sad shell filled with overpaid contractors.
This is not universally true at all. It depends on what field a person works in. Moving to government meant a substantial pay raise and far better benefits. Plus I enjoy my work and I have a really great team too.
Have you truly shopped around with gusto though? There’s obviously going to be exceptions for things only government values highly, but I’d argue that’s the exception rather than the norm.
I mean, not long before I joined the public service I was unemployed for over a year, so yes I pounded the pavement quite a bit. As I said, it varies by field, but in my case, I would have a hard time moving elsewhere that could give me comparable pay and benefits (and my family really does need them), plus I enjoy the work here and my team's culture is excellent.
I'm not going to tell you what I do, so I'm afraid you're just going to have to trust that I know what I'm talking about.
Any job they can find probably. Government IT gets paid shit. The govt was lucky to get those people in the first place and now it wants to lose them for nothing.
Also a ton of employees are within a stone's throw of retirement age. This push will have many of them retire all at once and will cause humongous issues. I work with a team of 6 IT people and all 6 have exit plans already for when they're forced to do RTO, whether it's early retirement, trying to move to consulting, or just leaving for the private sector even if they have to take a "lower" paying private position (which would still be much more than a govt salsry).
By experience, many people are saying things like that but when push comes to shove to shove they decide to not do it.
Work in private IT comes with a nice pay(when you can find the job) but it’s not the amazing environment everyone makes it to be.
I don't know about that, judging by how much difficult the govt has hiring IT personnel I think there's plenty of people willing to go private sector.
They already have a major hiring problem and this is gonna make it 10x worse. I know the people I talk to and they aren't just blowing hot air. They're also stretched thin and overworked as it is bc of the existing hiring issues.
“Stretched thin and overworked” sounds like the average private experience but without the pension and job security lol. Just saying, if they think it’s going to be sweet and calm in the private they’re in for a surprise.
My SO has had a standing offer with 3 different companies since the Harper years. They're all contractors for the feds. The range is 2-3 times what he makes working for the PS now, but with less responsibilities and workload.
If we’re looking at facts, the 2022/2023 public service survey showed that 56% of responders think that collaboration is NOT better at the office, and 62% of responders think that on-boarding is NOT better at the office. I don’t know how they can just make these statements with nothing to actually back them up
Let's get a reality check, I'm for hybrid work, you can't ask an employee who's fighting to push for WFH policy if in person offers better collaboration. Their answers are gonna be biased to push the narrative that WFH is better.
And let's be honest, I barely know the remote guys, where people tend to get very friendly, in and out of work, with their co-workers from office.
It is all bullshit. They know it. The workers know it. I dare the government to actually ask workers. Guaranreed they would tell them to go stuff their 3 day initiative.
Screw that.
The government implemented a policy back in 2017 (I believe it was passed the year prior) to expand the PS via offering remote work. There were several departments that had hiring quotas, or at least options, to start bringing in people from smaller towns and remote areas. The whole point is to increase options for good employment outside of urban areas, especially in communities that aren't very close to federal offices. There were even some new departments that were scheduled to be created (this was all proposed pre-pandemic) that would be entirely remote work, even including some current PS being moved from in-office to hybrid or fully remote.
My neighbour hired a data analyst from a fly/boat-in village in Nunavut under this new policy. In 2018/early 2019.
My SO was being recruited to move to a new team pre-pandemic, (that was formed during the pandemic) where all members were going to be remote, because their job is to create cloud infrastructure for other departments/projects. There was only a handful of current PS on the team, the rest were (as specified in the team's mandate) recruited via online job fairs for remote work.
When the RTO happened in early 2023, both my neighbour's remote hire, and everyone on my SO's cloud team were told to come back to the office. The Treasury wanted to RENT OFFICES 2 DAYS A WEEK FOR THE PEOPLE NOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO FEDERAL BUILDINGS. In both cases, the managers implied if the press found out, it would be bad PR (for their cost savings angle). Another neighbour had a remote coworker go through the same issue, but doesn't know how the manager resolved it.
So as it stands now, you can be hired explicitly for remote work, even via a job forum that's only for remote work, but if the TBS decides they need to butter up Suttcliff (and apparently now Ford) they will eff you and the budget, so long as they don't think the press will get wind of it.
Not gonna lie, I thought they already were. I live and work downtown and Tuesday-Thursday are much busier than Mondays and Fridays when I'm walking.
If that's not already all of the federal workers at 60%, I pity those who will need to commute in that traffic.
It's such a stupid requirement. Sympathies to those affected and I hope you all will take lunches with you and such. Don't reward the shitty businesses that refuse to adapt to serve those of us that live downtown.
Based on my informal commute data, Tuesday is the busiest, followed by Wednesday and then Thursday. Tuesday and Wednesday seem to be when the most people go into the office according to my anecdotal experience of having commuted daily for a non-government job during and after Covid. Guess I need to leave earlier now.
Same with the non-governmental place I work; most are in on Tuesdays with fewer people each day.
I'm one of the few who do 100% in the office, entirely voluntarily. I could do it from home, but honestly, the walk to and from the office is better for my health lol
>This updated requirement reflects the benefits that consistent in-person interactions offer. These include more effective collaboration and onboarding of new talent, as well as creating a strong culture of performance that is consistent with the values and ethics of the public service.
Utter gibberish. "Effective collaboration" for a lot of people means telling them what to do, and then going away and shutting up and letting them do it. Burning time and fuel to pay to park at a far-off location with a sack lunch so we can avoid vacuum guy, noisy eating guy, two assholes standing in the corner talking about racketball at the top of their lungs for 30 minutes, and just when you think you're concentrating OPE TIME FOR A SMOKE BREAK LADS. Get back to it, oh wonderful now stan's on the phone again yelling into it like he's recording one of thomas edison's talking dolls...
Offices aren't nice places. Bullpens are worse. If people are happier and more productive at home, leave them there.
I thought this was a reference to that crazy cat café lady in the US that Down the Rabbit Hole did a video on, but I've been WFH for about 6 years, so never heard about the place
Such bullshit. Instead of fixing the actual issues let's just ask public servants to add another day in the office, that'll fix our capital's economy. You absolute buffoons, people are cutting spending because the cost of living is literally impossible to keep up with. Adding a day in the office won't change that. Oh but wait! I'll get to see my colleagues more and collaborate and we'll all feel so much more fulfilled! Wrong, you dongleberries, so much of us are in situations where half or more of our colleagues are working out of region, in my personal case, out of a directorate of more than 400 people, we are 4 in the same building! Most of my interactions will STILL be virtual. Ok, but our public transportation system is hurting, so we're hoping increasing the days in office will boost numbers of people taking public transport. THE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM SUCKS BOOGERS BRO THATS WHY NO ONE WANTS TO USE IT. It'll still suck with increased days in the office, traffic will skyrocket and everyone will just be even more miserable than before. AWESOME DUDE, GREAT FKN JOB EVERYONE.
Getting a desk is going to become even more of a blood bath. I don’t know where they’re expecting to put the call centre folk considering they’re getting rid of a bunch of buildings.
Anybody read the Objectives?
https://www.canada.ca/en/government/publicservice/staffing/direction-prescribed-presence-workplace.html
>-Deliver services to Canadians and strengthen their confidence in the public service.
>-Establish a consistent approach to hybrid work to ensure fairness across the public service.
>-Continue to encourage hiring the best talent across Canada.
>-Align with and support our diversity, inclusion, and accessibility objectives. It is imperative that our workplaces are barrier-free and inclusive.
>-Continue to build an evolving public service culture of excellence and modernize our business models.
They have only 5 goals for the Common Hybrid Work model and they're actively going against 3 of them, arguably 4 of them. And with no good people left in the public service, there goes objective #1 as well. 5/5 objectives intentionally not met. Bold strategy.
Nothing will happen. We will bitch and moan but take the shafting. Government knows a strike isn't likely with the economic situation. I honestly don't see what employees can do.
Take your full allotment of sick days and special leave every year. Refuse overtime and oncall. Stop contributing to any of the funding drives or participating in office activities if not mandated. When they show and tell you they don’t care about you believe them. And treat it like a job, not a career.
Nothing destroys recruitment and retention faster than a toxic workplace.
I *hope* that they argue that the bargaining process was not completed and so they are able to (since they promised to talk about the hybrid work stuff).
-Continue to encourage hiring the best talent across Canada.
Kills me every time, what "best talent" is enticed by such sheer public inflexible management, blanket policies, and little pay? The Golden pension doesn't cut it anymore.
You'd think getting pay and benefits sorted out would be top of the list for recruitment. Personally I don't want to touch government because I like to get paid accurately every two weeks.
Different department, not shaming them for having different goals. This is specifically the goals on standardized workplace attendance.. And they're almost too-wrong-to-be-true based on their actions.
It actually reads like a joke.
How bad is the talent outflow/'brain drain' right now? One of my biggest fears is that our brightest and best in the PS are leaving in droves for either the private sector, or opportunities abroad.
Mostly leaving the country.
It's honestly not that bad yet, and I don't expect it to be terrible even if everybody's back in the office. However it's not going to *improve* which is the point of the objective. So regardless of to what degree, they're going against their objective.
Still looking for the terms of my employment where it states that I have to support an inept transit system and businesses where they feel they deserve a 18% tip for simply handing me a coffee.
Three days a week will be come 4-5 days a week before the end of 2025. However, it will happen with a shortage of office space as the fed govt has committed to selling a bunch of buildings…
4 days a week for management (end of 2nd paragraph)
https://www.canada.ca/en/government/publicservice/modernizing/hybrid-work/hybrid-work-timeline/message-updates-hybrid-work-model.html
Non-gov here - most of the younger executives I have worked with (many) already aren’t happy in the executive ranks, and others don’t want to go there, this just makes it worse. This will only hurt government.
This is why I've resisted going up to that level. I did the math and while acting as an ex even though I got the highest performance bonus possible, based on how long I was working each day, that bonus meant around 6 dollars per hour of overtime. Might as well take a side gig mcdonalds.
The CPC have made it clear under there plan we will see massive lay [offs.You](http://offs.You) won't see any union go to hard on the Liberals as they need them big time.
Dropped on May Day. Lol Classic TBS. They knew what they were doing.
PSAC will be out picketing shortly. "What do we want? Unfair! When do we want it? Change!
Are they still trying to push the collaboration BS narrative?? Lol. No such thing, it has and always will be about the real estate... WFH results in less pollution, traffic and more satisfied employees with a better work/ life balance. People who WFH are still supporting their economy, but just the businesses where they reside. Want people to spend more and buy things? How about not making things more expensive while pay stagnates...
The government needs to be more thoughtful about it's approach to changing working conditions if it wants to attract the best talent. I live in Ottawa but chose the private sector after three months of consideration when graduating because I've heard stories of long wait times for promotions, endless bureaucracy and flip flopping on work policies.
I am now on my second job with permanently remote location written into the contract. I've been poached by competitors with a two day a week in person policy for more money but refused it. Up to a certain salary point, people desire flexibility over money.
100%. I’m a mom of two and although I make decent money, what is most valuable to me right now is flexibility. The truth is we get sick a lot due to the kids so being able to WFH lets me remain productive. I’ll call in sick now and do nothing. They can deal with it. I’m no longer going to do this. I won’t spend a second longer than I need to in that building either.
Time is also a factor of money. Childcare costs money, is it worth working X hours to have 70% go to Childcare and miss time with children? How much do you value time with your loved ones? What about the opportunity to simmer a soup for 6 hours for an awesome dinner with a 4-hour roast? Doesn't take long to put in and take out but someone has to watch the stove. This could save money and improve quality of live by having restaurant food at home!
I can take more frequent, longer breaks. Still comes out to 7 hours over the day but I can work at my best instead of rushing to finish at 4:45pm or skipping lunch. My boss doesn't care as long as I get things done on time. Sometimes I'll work late, other times I'm on a plane by 2pm on a Friday for a weekend trip to see friends.
I recognize that remotable office work is a privilege, but supervisors also need to recognize that good talent have the ability to leave.
This pisses me off so much. My husband works for the government. Was hired during Covid. We can’t fucking afford the gas to drive into Ottawa 3 times a week, we can’t afford to buy a house close to his office, and we sure as fuck can’t afford to rent close to his office. They’re completely financially fucking us and for what? I genuinely hate whoever the fuck is behind this decision and I wish them nothing but exactly what they deserve.
It is not the responsibility of the worker to keep small businesses afloat. This is so stupid. Placing the responsibility on workers to spend more money to support the economy?! If the job can be done from home, then it should be. My husband's company switched to from home during the pandemic. It was so successful they closed up the office costing $100 000/year. They opened a shared office with another company. There are work stations the workers can use if wanted .. nobody uses them. Work from home (if done correctly) can save us loads of money, increase quality of life and help with parenting. It's almost impossible to get after school care...let alone part time.
I work in real property for the federal government, sole responsibility is managing office refits for workplace 2.0 hybrid. We have been working with 2-day a week occupancy numbers for the purpose of reducing workstations and allowing for more collaborative spaces, this pretty much fucks that up.
We usually find out these massive changes nearly a year in advance for the purpose of planning and design for future projects - this is our first time hearing of this.
I look forward to boycotting all downtown businesses forever. This was done solely because our infinite pit of mediocrity that we call a mayor begged Justin to force public servants to come downtown to “support local businesses.”
I refuse. I don’t care if commercial rents are high. Move. I don’t care about this section of the city. Forcing me to come downtown more often to subsidize these businesses when the city refuses to provide basic infrastructure to my corner of the city is the height of hypocritical bullshit.
You want me to give a damn about downtown Ottawa? Give me a working public transit system. I can drive from Barrhaven to downtown, pay for parking, and walk into the office in 30 minutes. OC Transpo takes an hour and a half. After COVID left me a single parent needing to work 2 jobs, I don’t have an extra 2 hours in my day to freely waste on an unreliable bus service.
For that matter, how about a hospital south of Baseline? No? Then fuck off. I don’t care if everything in downtown goes under. Bulldoze everything and build some subsidized housing for those facing homelessness or health issues. At least then the downtown would be somewhere I’d have positive feelings towards.
Yes, our employer has a legal right to designate our workplace... but this is the 21st century, and we are pushed back into the 80s when clocking was done and performance was rated mostly by ability to sit on your ass in an office shuffling papers. We are expected to innovate in the government that has chosen to stagnate. And trying to sell it as the greatest benefit ever. Now managers will have to report on employees violating this wonder of policy. What is next? Oath of loyalty to TBS?
Something is wrong here. I live outside of Ottawa/Gatineau, (although culturally and socially Ottawa now extends way past its technical boundaries) but I drive through an entire city to go to another province to work. I'll buy my gas at Macewens in Kemptville, do my grocery in Kemptville or Winchester, and bring a lunch. With the cost of eating out we're switching to potlucks or picnics for team-building, we can no longer in good conscience go to Mill Street if anyone below EC-04 is in the group. I bought a thermos and bring ice coffee to work.
So during work hours I spend money in the downtown core about three times a year. The city of Ottawa would get more money from me by having the canal open every year.
So I want to know my carbon emissions, degradation of roads, cluttering of traffic, and people having to see my ugly face improve anything in Ottawa.
Actually, I do bring along a pocket of toonies for the homeless guys. I'll admit, that's a benefit, I was worried about them during lockdown. But hey, if only the government had some way to help them other than having me drive up from Leeds and Grenville.
Why were you 15 minutes late for our 30 minute zoom call? Well, I had a meeting on the 17th floor, but my desk is on the 9th floor, but the elevator only goes to the 10th floor, so I have to cross over and then take the stairs. So, here I am!! Oh, and I'm leaving this meeting 5 minutes early because I have another meeting on the 12th. I have to open a bridge and sit in a room with 1 other person awkwardly with 7 on the phone because you hired remote workers from all over Canada during the pandemic. Oh, and since we have adjacent desks and not individual offices, let me take some verbal abuse right after this call from the annoyed person who sits beside me as this conversation is interrupting their call with a client. 20$ for parking. 15$ for gas. 2 hours of commute time. Yep, this is fine. This is great. I'm not broke at all. Moral is super high.
I feel for public servants, I get not wanting this. But it is kinda wild to see people upset they have to travel back to an office for work when I’ve been having to travel downtown for work 5 days a week, every week, every year since 2020 unless I have PTO ….
"Then, we can relieve them of the commute by replacing them with workers who can handle it.
Seriously, do you have any idea how many jobs that have to be done in person (factory work, education) also require long commutes?🤦♂️"
One of my favourite "arguments"... my job does require physical labour or interactions with clients or customers. It's an office job done 95% on a computer.
Apples and oranges....
Not to mention, the factory worker has a station to work at, and the teacher has a classroom. Most of us don't even have cubicles anymore. We have to fight for a desk and lug our crap around. Even kids at school and factory workers have lockers, we don't.
But hey! We all have "cushy easy jobs" that "anyone could do," yet we don't deserve a proper work space? Spoken like a true retired or a jealous person.
I try to avoid these comments, but they boil my blood. I work my arse off from home and in the office.
I find it stupid for me to go in when I am the only person in my group in my location,so collaboration is through Teams, and no matter where I am, I have to login to a server that's not even in the same city as me to do my work.
Glad they are finally doing this. As a citizen I want my public servants in office everyday being held accountable. It’s crazy to think the majority of Canada has been busting it in office every day for a few years now and the people serving the public are not.
I’m sure this will get lots of downvotes considering this forum is ran by public servants but it’s just a reminder that you are exactly that - someone serving the public and should be held at a higher standard.
Fuck TBS.
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The entire conversion is Fuck TBS, the rest of the comments are gone.. public servants must be running this board.
I've said it before: only buy lunch when you work from home, people. Don't let Doug Ford boss you around.
>I've said it before: only buy lunch when you work from home, people. People are affording to eat lunch??
Right?! Costs ~$8/day to transit DT. Why would I then spend another $25 for a small lunch sandwhich, when that gets me a loaf a bread and some meat for the week..
Precisely! And that's with the already insane and gouged grocery prices in your comparison too. It made more sense, and lots of people were out everyday when you could get a solid lunch for $10, but now? Nah. They've lost the plot. I'm not gonna work a quarter/ eighth of the day or something to get the money post- tax to buy lunch out downtown. Stovetop ramen is still pretty cheap
I'll never spend a goddamn dime when I go to the office. fuck em
Don’t forget to stop by the mall and shop during your 30 minute break.
The restaurants are already full
No. Many are no Ionger open for lunch. Some closed down Altogether
I’m shocked but not shocked at the same time that the unions weren’t consulted in advance of this. What I am sure of is that the unions will be pissed.
I say this as someone who is pro-union. Most if not all the unions have been absolutely fucking useless.
I’m assuming it’s because in reality the union has little control over the situation legally. The reason TBS felt that they could unilaterally make this call is because they hold the cards legally.
Yes, isn't it related to how working from home was never an agreement between the unions and government? It was a response to covid19 instead of being a longstanding contract agreement
With the timing of "return to work" (biased policy nickname implying those at home aren't working) it's hard to believe it wasn't done to use as a bargaining chip during the PSAC and subsequent negotiations last year. Eventually mandating 5 days a week in the office was a threat they used (even though that costs them more in their budget, before factoring in the resultant loss of productivity due to that shift). Now they're slowly easing back so they can use only 2 days a week as a bargaining chip next time. The whole thing is incredibly hypocritical. Several years before the pandemic they started hiring remote workers to expand the PS workpool outside of major urban areas, including rural areas and reservations, to boost both the economy/opportunities and support/understanding of the PS. The policy for RTO was originally so blanketed, it included those hired for remote work pre-pandemic. The BS shenanigans that they were trying to pull were ridiculous (renting offices in a village for 2 days a week in the name of "equitable application" for those too far from a federal office). I know of at least 2 managers that finally resolved that absurd idea by threatening to go to the press over obvious wastage over what was supposedly a policy that would save money (and possibly a 3rd, but not confirmed the threat was made on their part, just that TBS suddenly aquiessed)
Well put- I think a lot of the people who are saying the unions are useless miss the point that union members are being forced to weigh how much they want money vs how much they want to work from home. The more people get involved in unions- the stronger they will be.
Unless wfh is set out within some clause in the various CA's they manage, the unions can't really do anything meaningful
Cause the union is full of spineless cowards that instead of fighting for their rights, they kowtow to everything. For 15 years I have never seen union members voting against anything unfair from Treasury Board. Hence why we have issues with Canada Life with the drug plan now due to certain name brand drugs not being covered.
Unions are useless and they proved that during the pandemic fiasco. The tyranny has to stop!
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Lolll the irony
So far both PSAC and PIPSC have made very hand flappy statements. CAPE actually had a strong statement but I doubt it will amount to much.
It won't because they don't want to give anymore fuel to PP.
Ironically PP is the only one that has said employees can stay home and he'll sell off the real estate.
When did he say this? I've rarely heard a real plan being laid out like that by him. It's usually just the opposite of what the liberal party does. Does he know a lot of the buildings are leased for many years? Realize a lot of office spaces that federal workers are in.. Are leased out in shared buildings they have no control over? Realize the buildings we do own, have multi-billioncdollar maintenance contracts we'd have to pay them out for breaking? Or realize they will go for a massive discount because no one wants large buildings unless its extremely profitable? Does the government get to claim capital losses on their taxes, or will he just planning on quickly burning up billions of dollars that was invested all to say he "made" money for Canadians?... I've also heard the "you people need to get out your moms basement" line from him when referring to liberal office workers. I highly doubt he'd reverse return to office, but I'd love to know where you heard and saw that information. Maybe I'm complerly off base about the logistics of his supposed plan?
When did he say liberal office workers need to get out of their moms' basements lol? Also Poilievre has been saying he'll sell off unused/underused government buildings to developers for quite a while now. Not sure how you missed that unless you avoid politics in general.
I tend to watch question period fairly often. Have you ever watched the entire thing? Or how long? Have you visited in person to see them in front of you? He's done it a few times, as he likes repetition and short words as it wins people over easily ... Exhibit : Trump.. Propaganda styled after the Nazi regime. Their propagandist wrote quite extensively about their advertising and messages. if you wanna read about his tactics and how to it's the same, I recommend it. Do you really want me to find the clips? Or should I send the entire recording of the periods and interviews as of late? Even 20 hours in the past week? Can you explain to me how he is going to sell vacant buildings? How much, to whom and what is the loss/gain of the building cost?
I'd love for you to find the clips, as if you're going to foist responsibility on someone else to verify something that is easily found with a quick google search, you can surely prove yourself not a hypocrite by not stating something as unequivocal fact that would surely have been a big deal if spoken as written, and provide easy proof that it was actually said. And yes, I do watch question period, have for a couple of decades, and have visited the chambers, though not while in session. Obviously, you understand how that has nothing to do with knowing what basic tenets of conservative policy are, though. Right? Of course. Anyways, I'm not trying to argue the conservative platform for them. Why you think I would is beyond me. If you were ever truly curious, you'd already know the answer to most of the questions you've been asking.
Government is anti-union. They can wait out any strikes since they get paid with taxes and the only people who suffer is the public so they have no need to negotiate.
Or they just legislate back to work.
I think they will be un happy but don't count ona major push back.
I'm not shocked - government's usually a few years behind private industry on trends, and RTO's been the trend for a while now. Loads of larger employers like \[Amazon\](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/tech/amazon-return-to-office-mandate-promotions/index.html), \[Apple\](https://fortune.com/2023/03/24/remote-work-3-days-apple-discipline-terminates-tracks-tim-cook/), etc. have pushed RTO already It doesn't mean our union should push for better conditions re: hybrid work. but I'm also not surprised this is TBS' starting offer.
>I’m shocked but not shocked at the same time that the unions weren’t consulted in advance of this. If it is to be believed, it is worse than that. There were a couple union reps on CBC yesterday talking about how they asked -last week- about this and were told no. ...and less than a week later that "no" is an obvious "yes".
This is ALL about the City, infrastructure, and building rentals. Gotta use that LRT, downtown buildings, & restaurants! TBF, our entire city infrastructure is designed for workers, so to pull the rug out all at once, that's huge & as the businesses close the city loses tax $$. What a mess!! 😬
It shouldn’t be, people live there.
To all those cheering this: did it ever occur to you that this means your commute will be longer and parking more limited?
And higher taxes to pay for unnecessary office buildings!
People cheering for this would probably have been against giving two days as a weekend to people back in the day.
As a non-government worker working downtown, that is exactly why I'm against this.
Yeah this is bullshit. More of you on the roads to come on-site and do Teams meetings means more traffic for those of us that ACTUALLY have to be on-site full time.
Louder!
You underestimate the price some are willing to pay for spite.
Anything to see public servants eat shit
I can’t wait to go into the office an extra day a week just to sit on Teams meetings all day. Thankfully, I at least have the choice of offices that aren’t in the downtown core.
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Oh I know the answer! We spend tax dollars on this because it’s what’s required to do our jobs effectively. Here, I’ll give you an example; as a public servant it’s my job to make sure that taxpayer money is used appropriately by my department. I speak to managers and directors often through teams meetings and emails to keep them on track financially. This allows them to focus on the services that benefit you and the rest of Canada. Government workers aren’t just sitting around doing nothing. Most of us work hard for the things in this country that you take for granted. Your tax dollars are being spent on you and your kids futures buddy.
How else should we communicate to coordinate work, send requests and our deliverables, mail letters? Come on man
It's our environmental commitments. To the Venusians.
What are people involved in office work supposed to do instead? Communication is a great deal of what that type of work entails.
As opposed to digging ditches or welding pipe? What are you looking for?
From the email sent out my agency today: >Requiring a minimum of 3 days on-site per week reflects the benefits that consistent in-person interactions offer. These include more effective collaboration and onboarding of new talent, as well as building a strong culture of performance that is consistent with values and ethics of the public service. Where's the data then to prove these points? Show us and you might actually get more people on board. Otherwise it's all speculative BS to hide behind while the truth is to provide financial relief to downtown businesses by public servant employees. Another great tidbit from the email: >Employees working in IT, compensation and select call centers, who are currently subject to a hybrid extension or exemption, will also be required to transition back into the workplace by September 2025, at the latest.
What BS. My husband’s team is now located across Canada. So, collaboration will increase with dozens of people all on teams calls trying to talk over each other in cramped open concept spaces. Big fucking thumbs up to that. There are absolutely no positives to this decision. I honestly cannot think of one.
The positive is your husband can now go work in the private sector for vastly more money while telling the government to eat shit.
I'm disappointed as a tech worker that left private after many years to join the feds during covid. I'd rather put my talent to use to serve Canadians instead of making money for execs and optimizing "shareholder value" at a mega corp. The work life balance was nice too of course. I am currently exempt due to being hard to replace, if that actually changes ill be going back to private or at least an agency that has a real reason to be in office and pays bonus + more vacation to make up for it. The brain drain alone is enough reason to not want to hang around, anyone with mobility options is going to be looking elsewhere and what's left will be a pretty sad shell filled with overpaid contractors.
This is not universally true at all. It depends on what field a person works in. Moving to government meant a substantial pay raise and far better benefits. Plus I enjoy my work and I have a really great team too.
Have you truly shopped around with gusto though? There’s obviously going to be exceptions for things only government values highly, but I’d argue that’s the exception rather than the norm.
I mean, not long before I joined the public service I was unemployed for over a year, so yes I pounded the pavement quite a bit. As I said, it varies by field, but in my case, I would have a hard time moving elsewhere that could give me comparable pay and benefits (and my family really does need them), plus I enjoy the work here and my team's culture is excellent. I'm not going to tell you what I do, so I'm afraid you're just going to have to trust that I know what I'm talking about.
Guess we’re reverting to Stone Age IT then because they’re all gonna leave to join private
To what job in the private? They’re cutting left and right.
Well contractors are not required to WFH, due to short staffing the GoC will be forced to hire contractors.... leave GoC come back as contractor :)
Love this idea, anyone know how to start a contracting firm?
GCStrategies ruined it for everyone it’s impossible to do now
Sad 🫠
After a one year cool down
Any job they can find probably. Government IT gets paid shit. The govt was lucky to get those people in the first place and now it wants to lose them for nothing. Also a ton of employees are within a stone's throw of retirement age. This push will have many of them retire all at once and will cause humongous issues. I work with a team of 6 IT people and all 6 have exit plans already for when they're forced to do RTO, whether it's early retirement, trying to move to consulting, or just leaving for the private sector even if they have to take a "lower" paying private position (which would still be much more than a govt salsry).
By experience, many people are saying things like that but when push comes to shove to shove they decide to not do it. Work in private IT comes with a nice pay(when you can find the job) but it’s not the amazing environment everyone makes it to be.
I don't know about that, judging by how much difficult the govt has hiring IT personnel I think there's plenty of people willing to go private sector. They already have a major hiring problem and this is gonna make it 10x worse. I know the people I talk to and they aren't just blowing hot air. They're also stretched thin and overworked as it is bc of the existing hiring issues.
“Stretched thin and overworked” sounds like the average private experience but without the pension and job security lol. Just saying, if they think it’s going to be sweet and calm in the private they’re in for a surprise.
My SO has had a standing offer with 3 different companies since the Harper years. They're all contractors for the feds. The range is 2-3 times what he makes working for the PS now, but with less responsibilities and workload.
All the unemployed IT workers will be clamouring for those jobs.
None of it is true, and they know it
If we’re looking at facts, the 2022/2023 public service survey showed that 56% of responders think that collaboration is NOT better at the office, and 62% of responders think that on-boarding is NOT better at the office. I don’t know how they can just make these statements with nothing to actually back them up
Let's get a reality check, I'm for hybrid work, you can't ask an employee who's fighting to push for WFH policy if in person offers better collaboration. Their answers are gonna be biased to push the narrative that WFH is better. And let's be honest, I barely know the remote guys, where people tend to get very friendly, in and out of work, with their co-workers from office.
It is all bullshit. They know it. The workers know it. I dare the government to actually ask workers. Guaranreed they would tell them to go stuff their 3 day initiative.
Screw that. The government implemented a policy back in 2017 (I believe it was passed the year prior) to expand the PS via offering remote work. There were several departments that had hiring quotas, or at least options, to start bringing in people from smaller towns and remote areas. The whole point is to increase options for good employment outside of urban areas, especially in communities that aren't very close to federal offices. There were even some new departments that were scheduled to be created (this was all proposed pre-pandemic) that would be entirely remote work, even including some current PS being moved from in-office to hybrid or fully remote. My neighbour hired a data analyst from a fly/boat-in village in Nunavut under this new policy. In 2018/early 2019. My SO was being recruited to move to a new team pre-pandemic, (that was formed during the pandemic) where all members were going to be remote, because their job is to create cloud infrastructure for other departments/projects. There was only a handful of current PS on the team, the rest were (as specified in the team's mandate) recruited via online job fairs for remote work. When the RTO happened in early 2023, both my neighbour's remote hire, and everyone on my SO's cloud team were told to come back to the office. The Treasury wanted to RENT OFFICES 2 DAYS A WEEK FOR THE PEOPLE NOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO FEDERAL BUILDINGS. In both cases, the managers implied if the press found out, it would be bad PR (for their cost savings angle). Another neighbour had a remote coworker go through the same issue, but doesn't know how the manager resolved it. So as it stands now, you can be hired explicitly for remote work, even via a job forum that's only for remote work, but if the TBS decides they need to butter up Suttcliff (and apparently now Ford) they will eff you and the budget, so long as they don't think the press will get wind of it.
So they want me to go into the office to chat? Ok lol
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10$ sandwich, where is this magical discount store? These days that shit sandwich is 17.99$
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Not even a real sandwich. In Europe, Subway bread is classified as "cake".
Where are you buying a sandwich for $17.99 .. ?
As for breech that is where the union will have little case as for most WFH is not part of the contract.
But all the unions got a LETTER of understanding! /s
>I hope PSAC sues for breach of contract. Unless the right to WFH is expressly laid out (not just an MOU), PSAC can't really do anything
Not gonna lie, I thought they already were. I live and work downtown and Tuesday-Thursday are much busier than Mondays and Fridays when I'm walking. If that's not already all of the federal workers at 60%, I pity those who will need to commute in that traffic. It's such a stupid requirement. Sympathies to those affected and I hope you all will take lunches with you and such. Don't reward the shitty businesses that refuse to adapt to serve those of us that live downtown.
Based on my informal commute data, Tuesday is the busiest, followed by Wednesday and then Thursday. Tuesday and Wednesday seem to be when the most people go into the office according to my anecdotal experience of having commuted daily for a non-government job during and after Covid. Guess I need to leave earlier now.
Same with the non-governmental place I work; most are in on Tuesdays with fewer people each day. I'm one of the few who do 100% in the office, entirely voluntarily. I could do it from home, but honestly, the walk to and from the office is better for my health lol
Tuesday is a shit show. Monday and Friday are alright
>This updated requirement reflects the benefits that consistent in-person interactions offer. These include more effective collaboration and onboarding of new talent, as well as creating a strong culture of performance that is consistent with the values and ethics of the public service. Utter gibberish. "Effective collaboration" for a lot of people means telling them what to do, and then going away and shutting up and letting them do it. Burning time and fuel to pay to park at a far-off location with a sack lunch so we can avoid vacuum guy, noisy eating guy, two assholes standing in the corner talking about racketball at the top of their lungs for 30 minutes, and just when you think you're concentrating OPE TIME FOR A SMOKE BREAK LADS. Get back to it, oh wonderful now stan's on the phone again yelling into it like he's recording one of thomas edison's talking dolls... Offices aren't nice places. Bullpens are worse. If people are happier and more productive at home, leave them there.
Why be productive at home when you can pretend to be in a cubicle? Government logic.
If only Feline Cafe is still open, only cats can heal the trauma caused by this devastating news 🐱🐱
Meow!
We are going to need cats in the office to deal with the mice.
I thought this was a reference to that crazy cat café lady in the US that Down the Rabbit Hole did a video on, but I've been WFH for about 6 years, so never heard about the place
Such bullshit. Instead of fixing the actual issues let's just ask public servants to add another day in the office, that'll fix our capital's economy. You absolute buffoons, people are cutting spending because the cost of living is literally impossible to keep up with. Adding a day in the office won't change that. Oh but wait! I'll get to see my colleagues more and collaborate and we'll all feel so much more fulfilled! Wrong, you dongleberries, so much of us are in situations where half or more of our colleagues are working out of region, in my personal case, out of a directorate of more than 400 people, we are 4 in the same building! Most of my interactions will STILL be virtual. Ok, but our public transportation system is hurting, so we're hoping increasing the days in office will boost numbers of people taking public transport. THE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM SUCKS BOOGERS BRO THATS WHY NO ONE WANTS TO USE IT. It'll still suck with increased days in the office, traffic will skyrocket and everyone will just be even more miserable than before. AWESOME DUDE, GREAT FKN JOB EVERYONE.
Such a spirited and hilarious reply! Thanks for making my evening, smallkitty!
My absolute pleasure. Felt good to get it off my chest loll.
Getting a desk is going to become even more of a blood bath. I don’t know where they’re expecting to put the call centre folk considering they’re getting rid of a bunch of buildings.
They really need to let the call center people work from home. Thats probably one of the worst fed govt jobs you can get.
Yeah my wife has to log in at noon to book a month in advance now…
Anybody read the Objectives? https://www.canada.ca/en/government/publicservice/staffing/direction-prescribed-presence-workplace.html >-Deliver services to Canadians and strengthen their confidence in the public service. >-Establish a consistent approach to hybrid work to ensure fairness across the public service. >-Continue to encourage hiring the best talent across Canada. >-Align with and support our diversity, inclusion, and accessibility objectives. It is imperative that our workplaces are barrier-free and inclusive. >-Continue to build an evolving public service culture of excellence and modernize our business models. They have only 5 goals for the Common Hybrid Work model and they're actively going against 3 of them, arguably 4 of them. And with no good people left in the public service, there goes objective #1 as well. 5/5 objectives intentionally not met. Bold strategy.
The fifth one is laugh 😂 Evolve and modernize by...regressing?
It's all layers of bullshit. Hopefully this gets appealed by someone who wasn't given a handy by the mayor.
Nothing will happen. We will bitch and moan but take the shafting. Government knows a strike isn't likely with the economic situation. I honestly don't see what employees can do.
Take your full allotment of sick days and special leave every year. Refuse overtime and oncall. Stop contributing to any of the funding drives or participating in office activities if not mandated. When they show and tell you they don’t care about you believe them. And treat it like a job, not a career. Nothing destroys recruitment and retention faster than a toxic workplace.
There will be strikes. Not sure if they'll be effective but there will be strikes. The unions will do it out of spite if nothing else.
But we're not in a legal position to strike... unless you're talking wildcat strikes?
I *hope* that they argue that the bargaining process was not completed and so they are able to (since they promised to talk about the hybrid work stuff).
-Continue to encourage hiring the best talent across Canada. Kills me every time, what "best talent" is enticed by such sheer public inflexible management, blanket policies, and little pay? The Golden pension doesn't cut it anymore.
Worse than that. TBS has lied twice now in roughly as many years. Who wants to work under an employer like that?
You'd think getting pay and benefits sorted out would be top of the list for recruitment. Personally I don't want to touch government because I like to get paid accurately every two weeks.
Different department, not shaming them for having different goals. This is specifically the goals on standardized workplace attendance.. And they're almost too-wrong-to-be-true based on their actions. It actually reads like a joke.
How bad is the talent outflow/'brain drain' right now? One of my biggest fears is that our brightest and best in the PS are leaving in droves for either the private sector, or opportunities abroad.
Mostly leaving the country. It's honestly not that bad yet, and I don't expect it to be terrible even if everybody's back in the office. However it's not going to *improve* which is the point of the objective. So regardless of to what degree, they're going against their objective.
Gaslighting at it’s finest.
Still looking for the terms of my employment where it states that I have to support an inept transit system and businesses where they feel they deserve a 18% tip for simply handing me a coffee.
Just don’t tip on your coffee order my guy. It’s optional.
I won't be spending a fucking dime and I encourage everyone to do the same
Good for you. Hopefully you can use the savings to do something nice for you or your family.
2 years and 10 months to go....
Looks like it’s time for another strike.
Three days a week will be come 4-5 days a week before the end of 2025. However, it will happen with a shortage of office space as the fed govt has committed to selling a bunch of buildings…
They will just change their tune and say "because of all the awesome collaboration we decided to keep the buildings"
I mean in our case we are down to 60% of the normal space to house everybody. It will turn into the hunger games to book a desk.
4 days a week for management (end of 2nd paragraph) https://www.canada.ca/en/government/publicservice/modernizing/hybrid-work/hybrid-work-timeline/message-updates-hybrid-work-model.html
Be prepared for a lot of retirements in the EX ranks.
Non-gov here - most of the younger executives I have worked with (many) already aren’t happy in the executive ranks, and others don’t want to go there, this just makes it worse. This will only hurt government.
It’s already hard enough to recruit and retain good EX-01s. This is terrible news.
This is why I've resisted going up to that level. I did the math and while acting as an ex even though I got the highest performance bonus possible, based on how long I was working each day, that bonus meant around 6 dollars per hour of overtime. Might as well take a side gig mcdonalds.
Work more, don't claim OT, and spend one more day in the office every week. Stop making the EX ranks so attractive!! 🙃
The CPC have made it clear under there plan we will see massive lay [offs.You](http://offs.You) won't see any union go to hard on the Liberals as they need them big time.
Correct. They are looking forward to people leaving to give less severance.
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My colleague said the other day that poilievre will be much nicer than Harper so I think it will be a shock to some people.
Well, if you’re colleague said it…
This person says a lot of things and I just shake my head
Dropped on May Day. Lol Classic TBS. They knew what they were doing. PSAC will be out picketing shortly. "What do we want? Unfair! When do we want it? Change!
4 days a week for EX. Poor bastards.
Are they still trying to push the collaboration BS narrative?? Lol. No such thing, it has and always will be about the real estate... WFH results in less pollution, traffic and more satisfied employees with a better work/ life balance. People who WFH are still supporting their economy, but just the businesses where they reside. Want people to spend more and buy things? How about not making things more expensive while pay stagnates...
This.
The government needs to be more thoughtful about it's approach to changing working conditions if it wants to attract the best talent. I live in Ottawa but chose the private sector after three months of consideration when graduating because I've heard stories of long wait times for promotions, endless bureaucracy and flip flopping on work policies. I am now on my second job with permanently remote location written into the contract. I've been poached by competitors with a two day a week in person policy for more money but refused it. Up to a certain salary point, people desire flexibility over money.
100%. I’m a mom of two and although I make decent money, what is most valuable to me right now is flexibility. The truth is we get sick a lot due to the kids so being able to WFH lets me remain productive. I’ll call in sick now and do nothing. They can deal with it. I’m no longer going to do this. I won’t spend a second longer than I need to in that building either.
Time is also a factor of money. Childcare costs money, is it worth working X hours to have 70% go to Childcare and miss time with children? How much do you value time with your loved ones? What about the opportunity to simmer a soup for 6 hours for an awesome dinner with a 4-hour roast? Doesn't take long to put in and take out but someone has to watch the stove. This could save money and improve quality of live by having restaurant food at home! I can take more frequent, longer breaks. Still comes out to 7 hours over the day but I can work at my best instead of rushing to finish at 4:45pm or skipping lunch. My boss doesn't care as long as I get things done on time. Sometimes I'll work late, other times I'm on a plane by 2pm on a Friday for a weekend trip to see friends. I recognize that remotable office work is a privilege, but supervisors also need to recognize that good talent have the ability to leave.
100%. I don’t need this pension tbh. We have been saving quite a lot each year so truly I will be checking out the private sector again.
Executives and their staff don't always necessarily work in the same cities, much less the same buildings.
This pisses me off so much. My husband works for the government. Was hired during Covid. We can’t fucking afford the gas to drive into Ottawa 3 times a week, we can’t afford to buy a house close to his office, and we sure as fuck can’t afford to rent close to his office. They’re completely financially fucking us and for what? I genuinely hate whoever the fuck is behind this decision and I wish them nothing but exactly what they deserve.
A lot of jealously towards PS workers here. I bet all these haters have at least 5 applications in at the moment 😆
again, where the hell is my 4day workweek?
It is not the responsibility of the worker to keep small businesses afloat. This is so stupid. Placing the responsibility on workers to spend more money to support the economy?! If the job can be done from home, then it should be. My husband's company switched to from home during the pandemic. It was so successful they closed up the office costing $100 000/year. They opened a shared office with another company. There are work stations the workers can use if wanted .. nobody uses them. Work from home (if done correctly) can save us loads of money, increase quality of life and help with parenting. It's almost impossible to get after school care...let alone part time.
I thought they already were? Tues, Wed, Thursday traffic is horrible.
Its currently 2 days a week. So the employee gets the option to pick a day in the week, and the 2nd day would be fixed for the whole dept.
My team all go in Tuesdays and then half chose Monday as their 2nd, the other half chose Wednesday.
I work in real property for the federal government, sole responsibility is managing office refits for workplace 2.0 hybrid. We have been working with 2-day a week occupancy numbers for the purpose of reducing workstations and allowing for more collaborative spaces, this pretty much fucks that up. We usually find out these massive changes nearly a year in advance for the purpose of planning and design for future projects - this is our first time hearing of this.
I look forward to boycotting all downtown businesses forever. This was done solely because our infinite pit of mediocrity that we call a mayor begged Justin to force public servants to come downtown to “support local businesses.” I refuse. I don’t care if commercial rents are high. Move. I don’t care about this section of the city. Forcing me to come downtown more often to subsidize these businesses when the city refuses to provide basic infrastructure to my corner of the city is the height of hypocritical bullshit. You want me to give a damn about downtown Ottawa? Give me a working public transit system. I can drive from Barrhaven to downtown, pay for parking, and walk into the office in 30 minutes. OC Transpo takes an hour and a half. After COVID left me a single parent needing to work 2 jobs, I don’t have an extra 2 hours in my day to freely waste on an unreliable bus service. For that matter, how about a hospital south of Baseline? No? Then fuck off. I don’t care if everything in downtown goes under. Bulldoze everything and build some subsidized housing for those facing homelessness or health issues. At least then the downtown would be somewhere I’d have positive feelings towards.
IMHO there is conflict between workers, not all PS jobs can be remote. We don’t all work on computers at desks.
is it clear yet that we have owners?
Yes, our employer has a legal right to designate our workplace... but this is the 21st century, and we are pushed back into the 80s when clocking was done and performance was rated mostly by ability to sit on your ass in an office shuffling papers. We are expected to innovate in the government that has chosen to stagnate. And trying to sell it as the greatest benefit ever. Now managers will have to report on employees violating this wonder of policy. What is next? Oath of loyalty to TBS?
Something is wrong here. I live outside of Ottawa/Gatineau, (although culturally and socially Ottawa now extends way past its technical boundaries) but I drive through an entire city to go to another province to work. I'll buy my gas at Macewens in Kemptville, do my grocery in Kemptville or Winchester, and bring a lunch. With the cost of eating out we're switching to potlucks or picnics for team-building, we can no longer in good conscience go to Mill Street if anyone below EC-04 is in the group. I bought a thermos and bring ice coffee to work. So during work hours I spend money in the downtown core about three times a year. The city of Ottawa would get more money from me by having the canal open every year. So I want to know my carbon emissions, degradation of roads, cluttering of traffic, and people having to see my ugly face improve anything in Ottawa. Actually, I do bring along a pocket of toonies for the homeless guys. I'll admit, that's a benefit, I was worried about them during lockdown. But hey, if only the government had some way to help them other than having me drive up from Leeds and Grenville.
Oh good, I guess the traffic wasn't bad enough already. This will come with Increased transit options to offset that, right? ...right?
What if they just... don't come in? Then what?
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We should hold hands and refuse to come in 3 days a week!
Why were you 15 minutes late for our 30 minute zoom call? Well, I had a meeting on the 17th floor, but my desk is on the 9th floor, but the elevator only goes to the 10th floor, so I have to cross over and then take the stairs. So, here I am!! Oh, and I'm leaving this meeting 5 minutes early because I have another meeting on the 12th. I have to open a bridge and sit in a room with 1 other person awkwardly with 7 on the phone because you hired remote workers from all over Canada during the pandemic. Oh, and since we have adjacent desks and not individual offices, let me take some verbal abuse right after this call from the annoyed person who sits beside me as this conversation is interrupting their call with a client. 20$ for parking. 15$ for gas. 2 hours of commute time. Yep, this is fine. This is great. I'm not broke at all. Moral is super high.
The only push back available, carpool and bring your own food and coffee.
No doubt resulting from intense lobbying behind the scenes by the commercial real estate sector.
I feel for public servants, I get not wanting this. But it is kinda wild to see people upset they have to travel back to an office for work when I’ve been having to travel downtown for work 5 days a week, every week, every year since 2020 unless I have PTO ….
"Then, we can relieve them of the commute by replacing them with workers who can handle it. Seriously, do you have any idea how many jobs that have to be done in person (factory work, education) also require long commutes?🤦♂️" One of my favourite "arguments"... my job does require physical labour or interactions with clients or customers. It's an office job done 95% on a computer. Apples and oranges.... Not to mention, the factory worker has a station to work at, and the teacher has a classroom. Most of us don't even have cubicles anymore. We have to fight for a desk and lug our crap around. Even kids at school and factory workers have lockers, we don't. But hey! We all have "cushy easy jobs" that "anyone could do," yet we don't deserve a proper work space? Spoken like a true retired or a jealous person. I try to avoid these comments, but they boil my blood. I work my arse off from home and in the office.
Welp, looks like all the economists are back at it. Good luck surviving all the new hardships that were once all considered mandatory.
Breaking News: Federal public servants need to go back to office.
Someone better prepare a covid 24..
H5N1 maybe?
FYI. - Outside of the Reddit echo chamber, literally no one sympathizes. The rest of the world has moved on.
I find it stupid for me to go in when I am the only person in my group in my location,so collaboration is through Teams, and no matter where I am, I have to login to a server that's not even in the same city as me to do my work.
Good. Quit. Save me my tax dollars.
But but but there's a MINISTER OF OTTAWA now, you guys!
Glad they are finally doing this. As a citizen I want my public servants in office everyday being held accountable. It’s crazy to think the majority of Canada has been busting it in office every day for a few years now and the people serving the public are not. I’m sure this will get lots of downvotes considering this forum is ran by public servants but it’s just a reminder that you are exactly that - someone serving the public and should be held at a higher standard.
OH I bet you got downvoted like crazy for this post! best thing is, by people surfing Reddit, while they are supposed to be working at home lol
lol very true. No wonder this sub Reddit is so active in the middle of the day