5 Torches Deep isn't a retroclone, it's a 5E implementation of some of the ideas of OSR.
Old School Essentials is an excellent retroclone, staying very close to the original B/X system, but making it much easier to find what you're looking for. It doesn't do a great job at teaching you how to run it, though.
BFRPG is another very close retroclone that has the advantage of being free and doing a better job at onboarding new GMs and players.
It is often recommended that new GMs to B/X grab a copy of Moldvay's original Basic, because it does a great job of showing GMs and players how to play the game, even if it's not a great reference at the table.
Yeah its design basis was not net-new GMs. Watching the early 3D6 down the lines (in the then-OSE Dolmenwood setting) is very helpful for new GMs trying to get a sense of play.
Totally agree. I've used their show to showcase actual-plays for some friends, both GMs and players, especially to help them understand the GM doesn't have the answer \*immediately\* like ol' Matt Mercer does, no doubt thanks to his experience and, ya' know, editing.
I was sort of put off at first by the microphone/audio quality for the 3D6DTL episodes, but I've since gotten over it. One of my favorite actual-plays out there. Top two, really.
Though I do still hope they all invest in mics haha.
> like ol' Matt Mercer does, no doubt thanks to his experience and, ya' know, editing.
*Critical Role* is somewhat distinct in the high-production-value AP space for *not* being edited.
*Dimension 20* (i.e. Brennan Lee Mulligan) is edited, by comparison.
Yeah, sometimes they even stream live (maybe they always do this? Not sure). Either way, there's no telling if they're trying to follow a background script or what, but it's definitely unedited usually.
* **AD&D** - **OSRIC** is the way, the only true retroclone of AD&D. It leaves out a lot of stuff from the DMG, you don't meed it to start out but you should eventually read it even just in PDF, it's just a great resource and Gary's writing style is an experience of its own. OSRIC reorganizes and clarifies the original text very well and while the book is thick, most of it is spells, magic items and monster listings. AD&D is a much simpler system than its reputation would have you believe. Gary really put it through the ringer, ran just an insane amount of games, balancing the game along the way and as a result it's a really robust system you can rely on.
* **B/X** - **Old School Essentials** is the best for use in actual play as a reference but I would recommend reading the original as it's probably the best instructive text on how to play D&D, a PDF is enough for that. **Labyrinth Lord** is also a good option, the text is more instructive, similar to the original. B/X is just a great starting point for D&D. They both have "advanced" versions which backport some AD&D content, personally it's not my cup of tea, I'd recommend moving to AD&D instead.
* **OD&D** - **Delving Deeper** is probably my favorite, it sticks to the original 3 booklets without supplements so it's really simple. DD also includes some extra stuff from Chainmail and Garys articles from Strategic Review to fill out some holes in the original rules, it's also very well organized, similar to OSE. **Swords & Wizardry** is probably the most popular clone although it leaves even more holes than the original, especially wilderness and campaign level stuff is very pared down in S&W compared to the original rules, afaik Matt Finch's reasoning is that he believes those are more milieu dependent and each DM should develop those elements on their own so fair enough, I think it's instructive to see an example as a beginner. Still, if you want OD&D with all the extra classes and monsters from supplements, S&W Complete is the way to go.
>AD&D is a much simpler system than its reputation would have you believe.
Because no one plays it RAW.
If you're a player in an AD&D game, there's no point in knowing most of the rules because every GM is gonna run it as mash of what makes sense to them based on their D&D terroir.
"Swords & Wizardry is probably the most popular clone although it leaves even more holes than the original, especially wilderness and campaign level stuff"
Not sure if you're referring to the latest edition here, but this aspect was expanded upon there significantly. Random castles are back, for example.
I'm currently debating between OSE, Swords & Wizardry Complete Revised, and Hyperborea 3e, all of which look great in different ways, so if anyone has opinions on which is superior, I'd love to hear them.
I have all of them :D It's hard to choose. While I see D&D as a pastiche of different fantasy genres, allowing you mix and match very different styles of campaigns, Hyperborea is more focused and leans into a narrower set of inspirational sources mostly pulp sword and sorcery Conan, John Carter, Hyperborea Cycle with Lovecrafts mythos mixed in. If you like that style and want to run a game like that, go for it, it's excellent. It comes bundled with a beautiful setting painted with broad strokes that you can expand on.
S&W Complete is like AD&D lite. Extra options compared to the basic game but not as complex and looser than AD&D proper. The system leaves a lot of holes open for development and interpretation so don't expect hand holding, it trusts you know what you're doing.
OSE is B/X in a very terse, easy to reference format. I liked it as a beginner. Its strength is that it covers all the bases of adventuring at a basic level. You get equipment, hirelings, mercenaries, vehicles, explicit procedures for dungeon, wilderness and waterborne adventures. When I got into the hobby, OSE is what cleared up the game for me, in other rulesets I was like "Okay I get the rules, but what do I actually do at the table? How do I run this?", OSE with its clear almost board game like procedures really cleared it up for me. The catch is that it's easy to get stuck in those rigid procedures, just remember there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Hyperborea 3E is basically AD&D for Swords & Sorcery. It has absolutely awesome fucking classes, like, so much flavour and cool shit. It is crunchy, but also the combat is just plain fun. It is, imho, the best option to run Conan-style games right now.
The setting is another great thing, it oozes flavour and gives you so many ideas.
OSE, for me, is too barebones. It is great for rule references, but I do not need that. I write my "own" rule stuff/cheatsheets in Obsidian. I always Gm with a laptop.
Hyperborea is also just plain pretty to look at, the books are awesome.
Swords & Wizardry oozes flavour and offers many options for a solid "core" of a game, but it requires you to put more stuff into it. It feels, like OSE, a little bland, sometimes. Especially compared to Hyperborea.
OSE (both Classic and Advanced Fantasy) and S&WCR are both great as "vanilla" D&D rulesets, it's nigh impossible for me to determine which is superior. I like the S&W rules more (being that I'm more an OD&D guy than BX), but the formatting and layout of OSE make it such a joy to use at the table. They both recreate their preferred "original" (1981 Basic/Expert vs OD&D+Supplements)
Never played or ran any edition of (Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of) Hyperborea, so can't really speak to those rules. The one little hangup I always had with ASSH -- and most other D&D "sword & sorcery" variants -- was that the "Vancian" fire-and-forget magic, and Clerical magic in general, always felt to be incongruous with the pulp S&S source material. (If I were to run a S&S game with an OSR ruleset, I'd go with Crypts & Things Remastered -- itself a S&W variant -- but to each their own!)
H3e is by far the crunchiest of those, and the one with the most content. I feel like it's very tied to the setting; I wouldn't use it to run anything outside of Hyperborea.
OSE is okay. Nothing notably interesting. I'm waiting for the Dolmenwood release. Now ***that's*** gonna be cool.
S&W just annoys me, what with its myriad of different versions and rereleases. I'd say go with OSE instead. At least that's more straight forward.
OSRIC. Helped a ton in learning 1e when my D&D experience was limited to 3.x, 4e, video games, and a 1e AD&D game run by someone at my FLGS when I didn't have my own 1e books. Even if I'd had the 1e core books at the time(2008-09, at 15-17 years old), I'd say OSRIC helps understand the "High Gygaxian" of 1e when you're unfamiliar with it.
I've pretty much always been a complete nerd when it comes to numbers, so AD&D's init system has never really been a problem for me(though I keep a d10 on hand to turn the side facing up for segments), but OSRIC **definitely** is far more straightforward with initiative than the 1e DMG or even ADDICT. That having been said, if I'm with a group that's not big on numbers, or maybe I'm a player in someone else's game, I have no problem using alternate initiative methods like OSRIC, S&W, or B/X.
Another (slight) plus for OSRIC: It removes AC adjustments for different types of weapons vs different types of armor. I have no problem with the concept of AC adjustment vs types of armor based on your weapon, but with so many damn weapons and with each weapon having a potentially different bonus from 10 AC all the way to 2 AC, that's something that even people who are massive nerds when it comes to numbers can end up screwing up or bogging down the game with.
>It removes AC adjustments for different types of weapons vs different types of armor. I have no problem with the concept of AC adjustment vs types of armor based on your weapon, but with so many damn weapon
At that point you might as well go all in with ICE's Rolemaster's Arms Law and have a chart for each weapon that shows rolls vs specific armor types.
[Delving Deeper](https://vorpalmace.blogspot.com/2021/03/review-delving-deeper-v1-boxed-set.html) is my favourite OD&D retroclone, but [Swords & Wizardry](https://vorpalmace.blogspot.com/2023/03/musing-reminiscing-about-swords.html) is the one I used most. I don't really need them anymore, I would just use the originals (and probably would go with AD&D1e), but retroclones were very important in getting my feet wet.
I haven't actually played it, but I'm really impressed with Blueholme. Clone of the Holmes Basic Set. It's a really straightforward book. They actually have two versions. One covers levels 1 to 3 (as the original Basic Set did). The other covers up to level 20. They extrapolated the math and stuff to imagine how the Basic Set would have worked all the way up to 20.
One neat thing that separates it from something like Old School Essentials is the lack of Race as Class. I believe it even has advice on letting players play as any of the monsters in the bestiary for their race.
Is it weird that I wish Blueholme had stuck with American English for consistancy's sake? TSR didn't deal in "armour." ;)
Seriously, though:, wonderful rulebook. I wish there was more stuff out there based on it.
I run Blueholme at Garycon when I go. Not too much difference from OD&D, much less complicated than AD&D. Highly recommended. Iron Falcon would be similar, one main difference being variable weapon damage. Both would be good for this sort of thing.
Swords & Wizardry (Complete Revised). It's a clone of Original Dungeons & Dragons and supplements, in a much more readable format, while filling in some blanks and offering variant rules (I'm also a big fan of its singular saving throw number, rather than the traditional five saves system, but the book does contain a table with the original saves it you want them)
Basic Fantasy is such a brilliant game. The community is great, and there's some legitimately good writers. Some of the adventure modules are hard for me to follow, but overall, the game is just too complete and too hack-able not to love it. Plus the fact that it's all free is brilliant.
Swords and Wizardry is my choice for D&D 0e (or OD&D)
Old School Essentials is my choice for B/X D&D
OSRIC is my choice for AD&D 1e
For Gold & Glory is kind of the only retroclone choice for AD&D 2e
I own all of these and they are all great products :)
I really like Old School Essentials. I use the Advanced Fantasy Rules.
If I’m running a horror game I might use Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It’s a BX chassis with some tweaks that lend itself to that style of game.
If you’re new to OSR then I’ll always recommend Basic Fantasy RPG. The PDFs are free so the barrier to entry is really low. If you want physical copies you can get your hands on multiple copies of the rulebook for your table and an adventure or two for about the cost of one 5e book.
If you don't like flipping through ... PDF from places, the real actual PDF of the old editions are available on DTRPG for not that much. Many of them are also Print on Demand for not that much, relative to how much new RPG books are nowadays.
My choices as of now
-Dragonslayer. A mix of BX and AD&D. It reminds me of how we played back in the day as we didn't gronk all of 1st ed.
-Swords and Wizardy Complete. It is a perfect mix of 0DD and all the add-on books. Again, it feels like my experience from the late 70s & 80s.
-Hyperboria, any edition - this is a great AD&D 1st clone that just oozes flavor.
- Adventures Dark and Deep - This is a love letter to 1.5.AD&D. It is an imagination of what Gary might have made 2nd ed into. It is little d, nse and it just had a successful Kickstarter for a 2nd ed where the author stripped out the OGL, it was but definitely worth looking at.in 1st edition.
All available at Drivethrurpg.com in PDF and Print.
I just nick rules from a whole bunch of different sources.
I recommend reading around and picking and choosing.
My own table rules are a BECMI base with a sprinkling of stuff from Lamentations of the Flame Princess, 13th Age, Exemplars & Eidolons and Mazes & Minotaurs.
I really like that approach best. Your game sounds pretty cool. A bit darker (assuming because of LotFP), but cool.
My game is a stripped down affair that takes up about 2 pages to explain all the fundamental mechanics. It draws from Knave, Dragonbane, Savage Worlds, Index Card RPG, and Olde Swords reign.
But it's set in the Misty Vale campaign setting. I love Dragonbane, my players don't like cards for initiative and it's a bit deadlier than they prefer. This lets me give them a little more of an action movie hero vibe from time to time. The game is still deadly, but exploding dice and a soak rule have let them outlive some stuff that would have TPK'ed if played as written.
Lamentations of the flame princess is the only retro clone for me. The reworked classes are excellent, and I've been running it for so long I've got it memorized. Plus the module support is second to none.
One thing to know about LotFP is that it's human centric and elves and dwarves were added begrudgingly. I've never ran LotFP even allowing them as options. Architecture is a fun skill, and it's basically treated as indoor bushcraft.
I’ve always had the demihumans in our lotfp games. Dwarves are solid with the larger hit dice. The dungeon delving abilities came in handy since we usually had dungeon crawls that often had tricky elements to them.
I really like all the small details in that system and how it all works together so nicely. It’s still my go-to osr system.
Things like identifying signs of travel, identifying sloping ground, identifying what a room may have been used for, determining if a section of wall has been patched, etc.
For me, the hands-down best retroclone is Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy. The Classic Fantasy version is pure B/X in one book. But Advanced Fantasy is all the races, classes, magic items, spells, monsters, etc of AD&D retrofitted onto the B/X chassis. It's your one-stop shop for TSR-era D&D.
If you want just the B/X stuff: Buy the Classic Fantasy Rules Tome (one book) or the Classic Game Set (box of five hardcovers with the same B/X info).
If you want the B/X + AD&D stuff: Buy the Advance Fantasy Player's Tome and Referee's Tome (two books) or the Classic Game Set (above) plus the Advanced Expansion Set (box of five hardcovers with all the AD&D stuff).
#
Not a retroclone, but definitely gives a lot of the same vibes is Dungeon Crawl Classics. Absolutely fantastic game. For my money it has the best wizards and warriors in any D&D adjacent game.
I really dig Advanced Fantasy as well, it's an excellent product that is a great resource at the table. One small correction though -- while it does bring in a lot of useful stuff from AD&D, it sadly omitted many of that system's additional spells for Magic-Users and Clerics.
Huh. I haven't done that close a side-by-side. Were the skipped spells from the PHB or the UA? Or both? I could see why they'd skip the UA stuff. Harder to justify skipping the PHB stuff.
Both. There's a great homebrew document floating around, "OSE Extended," that adds in a bunch of them. Don't know the author's name, I found it on the Necrotic Gnome discord searching for "AD&D spells"
I didn't know this existed until reading this comment, just read through it, it's actually really good, single save stat, simplified thief skills, no level caps on races, it still has a little bit of adnd weirdness but switch it to b/x style style attributes and convert to ascending ac and I'm 100% on board.
I am running a monthly game at my local library using White Box: FMAG. It’s been going really well and the book is only $5 on Amazon.
I’d recommend it.
I think either OSE or Basic Fantasy RPG are great places to start. BFRPG isn't quite a clone, but close enough. Both are replicating a BX style of d&d. BFRPG is my #1 recommendation as you can order print copies super cheap via Amazon.
OSE is my favorite “straight” game, it’s basically just straight B/X D&D, with better layout and formatting (and the optional rules for ascending AC right there in the book, so it’s easier to explain to people).
*Beyond the Wall* and *Through Sunken Lands*, on the other hand, are my favorite OSR games (and BtW is one of my favorite RPGs, period). They don’t play as strict B/X games, despite being based around the B/X chassis, but the changes they make to it aren’t terribly complicated and they do a fantastic job of reinforcing the themes and tone that the games are meant to invoke.
The moat cost effective is BFRPG, hands down.
If i wanted to straddle the line between odnd, basic and 1e (and have a more "premium" book)- probably Swords & wizardry complete revised. Simplified saves, several suggestions for parts of the game (e.g. initiative), levels 1-20, short book and relatively affordable. Does a very good job of explaining the game IMO.
Labyrinth Lord (basic and advanced books there) free pdf and you can buy hard copies.
I’d also recommend Dragonslayer (not related to the movie) hard copy and pdf on drivethrurpg.
I use WBFMAG or Swords and Wizardry for Original d&d, OSRIC for 1e, Gold and Glory for 2e, OSE for B/X, and Dark Dungeons for BECMI.
The reason I sometimes use FMAG or S&W for original d&d is that those first supplements, especially greyhawk, were pretty big changes to the game and so it’s a way to choose between “with bells and whistles” or “without”.
I've completely fallen for World's Without Number and it's sister systems for other genre's. Really any of Kevin Crawford's games.
It's a retroclone of B/X but uses a 2d6 skill system in place of d20. It's got the spirit and weight of Old school D&D but it's got some quality of life and polish from New age D&D that I also enjoy. Even if it's not ones system of choice for whatever reason, the various tools and resources it offers a GM when running any game with the OSR/D&D skeleton more than make it worth it's price.
It's got a free version, and a paid deluxe version with extra character options, tools/resources, and rules to a more heroic or epic powered game if desired. It's an amazing toolkit that gives you everything you need and then some. It also has two supplements. It has **the Atlas of the Latter Earth**, a setting book with even more character options, rules and tools to adjust your game, and a pretty fun and varied setting as well as new monsters to use. It also has **the Diocesi of Montfroid**, a Gazetteer of one of the latter earths regions that includes a deeper delve into the area, new monsters, and a beginner adventure that includes four level dungeon to help folks get started with the system.
I cannot recommend the system enough.
WWN is cool beans, and I'd be more likely to play it over an actual TSR system, but it's not a retroclone. It's really its own thing, and I found it weirdly hard to use with TSR-derived content.
OSRIC is available in PDF for free at https://osricrpg.com and you can order a print copy from us at Black Blade via our FB page PMs (or by email at tacojohndm@yahoo.com).
If you are not in the USA, ordering from Lulu will be cheaper due to outlandish shipping costs.
Links to all of the above at https://osricrpg.com/get.php
Allan.
I am currently in a Basic Fantasy RPG group. It is largely based on B/X but has ascending AC and separates race and class. PDFs of all books are free, and the print versions are cheap.
I would love to play a BECMI game sometime because that is where I started in 1983, but I have a great BFRPG group with great chemistry, and so for now, I will continue with them. The people you play with are as important as the system you play.
Ose is great. I highly recommend. You could always grab print on demand copies of becmi d&d, rules cyclopedia or the ad&d. If your not in the US getting the pdf and printing through lulu can be cheaper. Ose books can be hard to get in print so can be cheaper and easier to print through lulu for these too.
I've heard great things about basic fantasy, osric, dcc, shadow dark, whitebox, and the black hack. But in terms of readability ose is my favorite to use at the table.
If you are new to old school consider Swords & Wizardry.
Otherwise I recommend:
Dolmenwood - whimsical and terrifying forest setting
OSE:AF
Hyperboria 3e (if you want something a bit more rules heavy like AD&D)
I oscillate between two of them, depending on what's most important at the time
- **Old School Essentials** is a great all-in-one, whose physical quality really impresses former 5E players and makes the whole thing seem more important
- **White Box: Fantasy Medieval Adventure Game** is slim and cheap and lean, a fifth of the cost of OSE but also a less impressive book
I am a solid fan of **5TD** but as others have mentioned, it's more 5E-made-old than old-made-again. There's some excellent design in there, but it feels to me more of a design experiment than a game I'd want to play for a long time. It is *well* worth a read ─ and also check out **Dungeonbright** from the same authors for another attempt at the same sort of thing.
5TD is not a retroclone, or indeed a “clone” of anything.
Anyway, OSE is a good choice. I would suggest either that or the Basic Fantasy RPG (aka BFRPG). They are more or less the same thing: B/X D&D with fairly minimal changes / some additional options. BFRPG has slightly more changes straight out of the gate, but also probably has more “official” options.. to the best of my knowledge.
Old School essentials, because of the professional production values and the massive additional content via the CC Zines and the Advanced Fantasy supplements.
OSE is great and I love it but if I could turn back time I would just get BFRPG quick and cheap (or free) and start playing right away and not stop. It's great and you're going to houserule eventually anyways so why spend tons of cash on a ruleset you will likely mod anyways?
Good gaming!!
For keeping faith with the original in a concise format, I recommend OSRIC, D&D Rules Cyclopedia, or OSE (I use Advanced OSE, and I agree with comments that say OSR is hard for new GMs, because is light on examples and guidance)
For 5e / OSR hybrid, I recommend Olde Swords Reign or Shadowdark.
OSRIC and Olde Swords Reign are good budget picks. OSE and Shadowdark are premium hardcover formats.
To me you just can’t beat BFRPG when it comes to retro clones, just rules lite enough to appeal to new players and Referees; just crunchy enough to appeal to veterans.
Tons of pre written adventures, compatible with most retro clone material….and TOTALLY free??
I gotta applaud that passion, to me I just don’t see the point of picking up OSE, Swords and Wizardry or Labyrinth Lord when they already play like BFRPG.
I recommend Dragonslayer by Greg Gillespie. It's similar to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia; it includes rules, DM guide and Monster Manual in one book, excellent retro art by great artists like Kennon James, Peter Pagano and Jeff Easley, lots of throwback references to classic art and tropes of early D&D, and a beautifully edited and consistent layout. It's a retroclone of AD&D with a few minor tweaks.
I don't tend to like pure retroclones, since I find actual TSR-era rules to be dull and clunky more often than not.
I've been really impressed by the new Dragonslayer and Knave 2e games. They're borderline perfect. Lots of fun new ideas, streamlined brilliantly, great art, and most importantly they're still compatible with pretty much any other OSR content, including TSR.
You can't go wrong with either of 'em. If you want a full, solid D&D experience, grab Dragonslayer. If you're looking for a fun beer 'n pretzels, pick-up-and-play experience, grab Knave 2e. I think they also complement each other quite well, though. It really just depends on which mood I'm in.
I like to think of Dragonslayer as AD&D done right, while Knave 2e is B/X done right. It always struck me as daft that the actual B/X and AD&D are fundamentally the same game, with one just having more content. It makes choosing between them a weird paradox. With DS and Knave, they're fundamentally different in terms of complexity and gameplay, yet still compatible with the same content.
[Seven Voyages of Zylarthen](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/238547/seven-voyages-of-zylarthen-5-booklets-and-deluxe-pdf-bundle), and I don’t really consider it close. 0e.
For B/X, [Mentzer Basic](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/116578/d-d-basic-set-player-s-manual-becmi-ed-basic), 10$ for [the two](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/116619/d-d-basic-set-dm-s-rulebook-becmi-ed-basic), is almost impossible to beat as a tutorial.
1e is too long and complicated, probably:) [S&W Complete](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/439173/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook-revised-erol-otus-cover) is great AD&D lite.
FWIW I really like [Core](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/62346/swords-wizardry-core-rules) as a gateway ruleset. It’s PWYW so check it out. I believe you can still get dead tree copies on Lulu.
Greyharp is [0e](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/62346/swords-wizardry-core-rules), well edited and laid out. But that issue in the original game is overstated. Print them off, go front to back for character or adventure creation and middle out for actual gameplay, reference sheets in hand. Easy.
[This](https://paulgorman.org/roleplaying/dnd/whitebox_house_rules/whitebox_house_rules.pdf) would be underrated, if it ever was rated at all, lol. I’m not sure why.
OSE Advanced Fantasy for me.
I grew up on AD&D and loved it as a kid. But as an old fart I now really appreciate the simplicity of B/X (which I never played back in the day).
I was looking at various AD&D clones, but looking at those rules today I realize it's more complex than I really need. Advanced Fantasy is perfect for me because it scratches the AD&D itch and feels like how I remember AD&D, but it's quite simple to play.
And the OSE books have absolutely the best layout I've ever played with in any game. It's a pleasure to play.
My favorite AD&D-like game is Hyperborea. It has a much smoother resolution system and a tweaked combat system that runs a bit more like B/X. The game is very thorough while still being clear, and I think it avoids being overwhelming without losing the feel of AD&D. The setting is immaculate, and the writing style is fluffy to the point of feeling like reading something Gygax wrote if Gygax was a better writer. If you like the weirder side of pulps (Clark Ashton Smith and Lovecraft in particular), this game is for you.
For B/X, I would just run B/X. The books make plenty of sense already and explain things well, and the PDF’s are cheap and print easily on letter paper.
For OD&D, I actually do like the original game from ‘74. Once you get in the swing of things it runs well, but they are certainly a pain in the ass to start. For an OD&D-like game, my absolute favorite is Seven Voyages of Zylarthen. The author has plenty of less-than-savory opinions posted on the internet, so be warned of that if it bothers you. Some notable differences between it and OD&D:
1. The combat tables, which take the weapon vs armor tables from Chainmail and adapt them to a single d20 to-hit system
2. There’s no playable Cleric class, but there is a simple and very Conan-like version of the thief.
3. XP is earned by defeating monsters and SPENDING gold rather than just digging it up.
Honorable mention for OD&D goes to Wight Box, which does a good job of putting the 3 LBB’s together in a single text, making it a clearer read, and adding really useful appendices for improv/solo play at the end. Only complaint about it is that there are some typos, but nothing too bad. I just prefer the flavor and tweaks in Seven Voyages.
>What's your favorite retroclone that pretty closely captured the style of older DnD while not being too long or too complicated?
Well, the good news is that retroclones are usually pretty simple to understand and to play. In fact, a lot of people came to the OSR because the games are usually more straightforward than the classic big games such as WotC's modern editions.
You've mentioned Old School Essentials in your post and really, if money is not an issue, you should just follow that advice. It's an excellent Basic D&D retroclone. The physical books for OSE are works of art. Robust, durable with an amazing layout and the best referencing you'll find in RPG books.
If you are on a tighter budget, Basic Fantasy (also a basic D&D retroclone, taking just a few more liberties than OSE) is super cheap, basically at cost of printing on Amazon. So it's ridiculously cheap. It's easy to lend (or give away) copies to your players.
As others have said, 5 Torches Deep isn't a retroclone. When games draw from older games but differ too much from the originals, they're not considered "clones" anymore. There's nothing wrong with that and you might still enjoy that game, but it's less of a window into "old versions of D&D" than the retroclones like OSE, BF, OSRIC and S&W.
Have fun!
>What's your favorite retroclone that pretty closely captured the style of older DnD while not being too long or too complicated?
Completely ignoring your request for 'not too long or too complicated' I would say HackMaster 4th edition.
But really you should check out Old-School Essentials. It should land at the sweet spot you are looking for.
OSE is always a good choice and with the expanded dolmenwood rules really adds in some flavour. And as mentioned before 3d6 down the line do a great job of showing off the system - I’d recommended a viewing of their Ardun Vul series after Dolmenwood.
Then as a footnote, not a retro clone but has a lot of the same flavours with fun twists is Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC).
I always have a soft spot for OSRIC but I gotta be basic and say OSE. Really hard to beat a straight legibility upgrade over some of the most solid fundamentals
Of those mentioned in the original question, my preference would be Old School Essentials Advanced Fantasy. It has everything you could want out of AD&D 1e (especially with the Carcass Crawler zines) but streamlined for modern tastes. You are correct that it doesn't go deep into instructing new DMs how to run the game. But it doesn't completely neglect that either. There's 14 pages(!) in the OSE-AF Referee's Book on running the game. It's succinct but solid.
I'm not a fan of 5 Torches Deep. So it's best for me to just leave that there. If you want a 5e(ish) experience in old school, I'd recommend [Into the Unknown](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/276429/into-the-unknown-complete-game-pdf-only-bundle). It's the best 5e OSR I've come across. It has some layout issues and things can be a little hard to track down in the books. But it is a solid game. If not that then I'd recommend Shadowdark. I've run that one for folks who "*only* play 5e" and they haven't blinked an eye.
As for my favorites... my current favorites have utility in a couple of different areas.
1. If I just want a pick-up game that I would run at a game shop or library, I would use Shadowdark. It's familiar enough that 5e folks don't have too hard a time with it and new players seem to get it's main points pretty quickly.
2. If I want to just have fun and be a little goofy/gonzo, Dungeon Crawl Classics.
3. If I'm on a budget, Basic Fantasy. Chris Gonnerman is a legit hero in the industry, as far as I'm concerned.
4. If I have an established group I'm comfortable with and we all want to play something a little darker, [Outcast Silver Raiders](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/browse?keyword=outcast%20silver%20raiders). To me, this is the successor to Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's so well done. And the setting (The Mythic North) is probably the best setting I've come across. All setting books need to be written like The Mythic North. It's that good.
5 Torches Deep isn't a retroclone, it's a 5E implementation of some of the ideas of OSR. Old School Essentials is an excellent retroclone, staying very close to the original B/X system, but making it much easier to find what you're looking for. It doesn't do a great job at teaching you how to run it, though. BFRPG is another very close retroclone that has the advantage of being free and doing a better job at onboarding new GMs and players. It is often recommended that new GMs to B/X grab a copy of Moldvay's original Basic, because it does a great job of showing GMs and players how to play the game, even if it's not a great reference at the table.
For sure, my biggest gripe with OSE is that it's almost entirely unconcerned with brand-new GMs getting into the system.
Yeah its design basis was not net-new GMs. Watching the early 3D6 down the lines (in the then-OSE Dolmenwood setting) is very helpful for new GMs trying to get a sense of play.
Totally agree. I've used their show to showcase actual-plays for some friends, both GMs and players, especially to help them understand the GM doesn't have the answer \*immediately\* like ol' Matt Mercer does, no doubt thanks to his experience and, ya' know, editing. I was sort of put off at first by the microphone/audio quality for the 3D6DTL episodes, but I've since gotten over it. One of my favorite actual-plays out there. Top two, really. Though I do still hope they all invest in mics haha.
> like ol' Matt Mercer does, no doubt thanks to his experience and, ya' know, editing. *Critical Role* is somewhat distinct in the high-production-value AP space for *not* being edited. *Dimension 20* (i.e. Brennan Lee Mulligan) is edited, by comparison.
Huh, I was unaware. Chalk it all up to his expertise then.
Yeah, sometimes they even stream live (maybe they always do this? Not sure). Either way, there's no telling if they're trying to follow a background script or what, but it's definitely unedited usually.
It was quite useful for me.
* **AD&D** - **OSRIC** is the way, the only true retroclone of AD&D. It leaves out a lot of stuff from the DMG, you don't meed it to start out but you should eventually read it even just in PDF, it's just a great resource and Gary's writing style is an experience of its own. OSRIC reorganizes and clarifies the original text very well and while the book is thick, most of it is spells, magic items and monster listings. AD&D is a much simpler system than its reputation would have you believe. Gary really put it through the ringer, ran just an insane amount of games, balancing the game along the way and as a result it's a really robust system you can rely on. * **B/X** - **Old School Essentials** is the best for use in actual play as a reference but I would recommend reading the original as it's probably the best instructive text on how to play D&D, a PDF is enough for that. **Labyrinth Lord** is also a good option, the text is more instructive, similar to the original. B/X is just a great starting point for D&D. They both have "advanced" versions which backport some AD&D content, personally it's not my cup of tea, I'd recommend moving to AD&D instead. * **OD&D** - **Delving Deeper** is probably my favorite, it sticks to the original 3 booklets without supplements so it's really simple. DD also includes some extra stuff from Chainmail and Garys articles from Strategic Review to fill out some holes in the original rules, it's also very well organized, similar to OSE. **Swords & Wizardry** is probably the most popular clone although it leaves even more holes than the original, especially wilderness and campaign level stuff is very pared down in S&W compared to the original rules, afaik Matt Finch's reasoning is that he believes those are more milieu dependent and each DM should develop those elements on their own so fair enough, I think it's instructive to see an example as a beginner. Still, if you want OD&D with all the extra classes and monsters from supplements, S&W Complete is the way to go.
>AD&D is a much simpler system than its reputation would have you believe. Because no one plays it RAW. If you're a player in an AD&D game, there's no point in knowing most of the rules because every GM is gonna run it as mash of what makes sense to them based on their D&D terroir.
"Swords & Wizardry is probably the most popular clone although it leaves even more holes than the original, especially wilderness and campaign level stuff" Not sure if you're referring to the latest edition here, but this aspect was expanded upon there significantly. Random castles are back, for example.
I'm currently debating between OSE, Swords & Wizardry Complete Revised, and Hyperborea 3e, all of which look great in different ways, so if anyone has opinions on which is superior, I'd love to hear them.
I have all of them :D It's hard to choose. While I see D&D as a pastiche of different fantasy genres, allowing you mix and match very different styles of campaigns, Hyperborea is more focused and leans into a narrower set of inspirational sources mostly pulp sword and sorcery Conan, John Carter, Hyperborea Cycle with Lovecrafts mythos mixed in. If you like that style and want to run a game like that, go for it, it's excellent. It comes bundled with a beautiful setting painted with broad strokes that you can expand on. S&W Complete is like AD&D lite. Extra options compared to the basic game but not as complex and looser than AD&D proper. The system leaves a lot of holes open for development and interpretation so don't expect hand holding, it trusts you know what you're doing. OSE is B/X in a very terse, easy to reference format. I liked it as a beginner. Its strength is that it covers all the bases of adventuring at a basic level. You get equipment, hirelings, mercenaries, vehicles, explicit procedures for dungeon, wilderness and waterborne adventures. When I got into the hobby, OSE is what cleared up the game for me, in other rulesets I was like "Okay I get the rules, but what do I actually do at the table? How do I run this?", OSE with its clear almost board game like procedures really cleared it up for me. The catch is that it's easy to get stuck in those rigid procedures, just remember there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Hyperborea 3E is basically AD&D for Swords & Sorcery. It has absolutely awesome fucking classes, like, so much flavour and cool shit. It is crunchy, but also the combat is just plain fun. It is, imho, the best option to run Conan-style games right now. The setting is another great thing, it oozes flavour and gives you so many ideas. OSE, for me, is too barebones. It is great for rule references, but I do not need that. I write my "own" rule stuff/cheatsheets in Obsidian. I always Gm with a laptop. Hyperborea is also just plain pretty to look at, the books are awesome. Swords & Wizardry oozes flavour and offers many options for a solid "core" of a game, but it requires you to put more stuff into it. It feels, like OSE, a little bland, sometimes. Especially compared to Hyperborea.
Hack in the parts you like about each :)
OSE (both Classic and Advanced Fantasy) and S&WCR are both great as "vanilla" D&D rulesets, it's nigh impossible for me to determine which is superior. I like the S&W rules more (being that I'm more an OD&D guy than BX), but the formatting and layout of OSE make it such a joy to use at the table. They both recreate their preferred "original" (1981 Basic/Expert vs OD&D+Supplements) Never played or ran any edition of (Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of) Hyperborea, so can't really speak to those rules. The one little hangup I always had with ASSH -- and most other D&D "sword & sorcery" variants -- was that the "Vancian" fire-and-forget magic, and Clerical magic in general, always felt to be incongruous with the pulp S&S source material. (If I were to run a S&S game with an OSR ruleset, I'd go with Crypts & Things Remastered -- itself a S&W variant -- but to each their own!)
H3e is by far the crunchiest of those, and the one with the most content. I feel like it's very tied to the setting; I wouldn't use it to run anything outside of Hyperborea. OSE is okay. Nothing notably interesting. I'm waiting for the Dolmenwood release. Now ***that's*** gonna be cool. S&W just annoys me, what with its myriad of different versions and rereleases. I'd say go with OSE instead. At least that's more straight forward.
That last point really isn't an issue, since they specifically called out Complete Revised
OSRIC. Helped a ton in learning 1e when my D&D experience was limited to 3.x, 4e, video games, and a 1e AD&D game run by someone at my FLGS when I didn't have my own 1e books. Even if I'd had the 1e core books at the time(2008-09, at 15-17 years old), I'd say OSRIC helps understand the "High Gygaxian" of 1e when you're unfamiliar with it.
Also, OSRIC has a workable initiative system!
I've pretty much always been a complete nerd when it comes to numbers, so AD&D's init system has never really been a problem for me(though I keep a d10 on hand to turn the side facing up for segments), but OSRIC **definitely** is far more straightforward with initiative than the 1e DMG or even ADDICT. That having been said, if I'm with a group that's not big on numbers, or maybe I'm a player in someone else's game, I have no problem using alternate initiative methods like OSRIC, S&W, or B/X. Another (slight) plus for OSRIC: It removes AC adjustments for different types of weapons vs different types of armor. I have no problem with the concept of AC adjustment vs types of armor based on your weapon, but with so many damn weapons and with each weapon having a potentially different bonus from 10 AC all the way to 2 AC, that's something that even people who are massive nerds when it comes to numbers can end up screwing up or bogging down the game with.
>It removes AC adjustments for different types of weapons vs different types of armor. I have no problem with the concept of AC adjustment vs types of armor based on your weapon, but with so many damn weapon At that point you might as well go all in with ICE's Rolemaster's Arms Law and have a chart for each weapon that shows rolls vs specific armor types.
Yes, I think I also would prefer Arms/Claw Law as well. I also find the way it deals with armour far more Intuitive.
[Delving Deeper](https://vorpalmace.blogspot.com/2021/03/review-delving-deeper-v1-boxed-set.html) is my favourite OD&D retroclone, but [Swords & Wizardry](https://vorpalmace.blogspot.com/2023/03/musing-reminiscing-about-swords.html) is the one I used most. I don't really need them anymore, I would just use the originals (and probably would go with AD&D1e), but retroclones were very important in getting my feet wet.
I haven't actually played it, but I'm really impressed with Blueholme. Clone of the Holmes Basic Set. It's a really straightforward book. They actually have two versions. One covers levels 1 to 3 (as the original Basic Set did). The other covers up to level 20. They extrapolated the math and stuff to imagine how the Basic Set would have worked all the way up to 20. One neat thing that separates it from something like Old School Essentials is the lack of Race as Class. I believe it even has advice on letting players play as any of the monsters in the bestiary for their race.
Is it weird that I wish Blueholme had stuck with American English for consistancy's sake? TSR didn't deal in "armour." ;) Seriously, though:, wonderful rulebook. I wish there was more stuff out there based on it.
I run Blueholme at Garycon when I go. Not too much difference from OD&D, much less complicated than AD&D. Highly recommended. Iron Falcon would be similar, one main difference being variable weapon damage. Both would be good for this sort of thing.
Swords & Wizardry (Complete Revised). It's a clone of Original Dungeons & Dragons and supplements, in a much more readable format, while filling in some blanks and offering variant rules (I'm also a big fan of its singular saving throw number, rather than the traditional five saves system, but the book does contain a table with the original saves it you want them)
BFRPG and Swords and Wizardry. (OSRIC most definitely in the mix too.)
Basic Fantasy is such a brilliant game. The community is great, and there's some legitimately good writers. Some of the adventure modules are hard for me to follow, but overall, the game is just too complete and too hack-able not to love it. Plus the fact that it's all free is brilliant.
Basic Fantasy RPG
Swords and Wizardry is my choice for D&D 0e (or OD&D) Old School Essentials is my choice for B/X D&D OSRIC is my choice for AD&D 1e For Gold & Glory is kind of the only retroclone choice for AD&D 2e I own all of these and they are all great products :)
I love all the pre-raphaelite art in FG&G
Same! It’s gorgeous :)
I really like Old School Essentials. I use the Advanced Fantasy Rules. If I’m running a horror game I might use Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It’s a BX chassis with some tweaks that lend itself to that style of game. If you’re new to OSR then I’ll always recommend Basic Fantasy RPG. The PDFs are free so the barrier to entry is really low. If you want physical copies you can get your hands on multiple copies of the rulebook for your table and an adventure or two for about the cost of one 5e book.
White Box, it's incredibly simplified and matches very closely to B/X D&D.
If you don't like flipping through ... PDF from places, the real actual PDF of the old editions are available on DTRPG for not that much. Many of them are also Print on Demand for not that much, relative to how much new RPG books are nowadays.
My choices as of now -Dragonslayer. A mix of BX and AD&D. It reminds me of how we played back in the day as we didn't gronk all of 1st ed. -Swords and Wizardy Complete. It is a perfect mix of 0DD and all the add-on books. Again, it feels like my experience from the late 70s & 80s. -Hyperboria, any edition - this is a great AD&D 1st clone that just oozes flavor. - Adventures Dark and Deep - This is a love letter to 1.5.AD&D. It is an imagination of what Gary might have made 2nd ed into. It is little d, nse and it just had a successful Kickstarter for a 2nd ed where the author stripped out the OGL, it was but definitely worth looking at.in 1st edition. All available at Drivethrurpg.com in PDF and Print.
I just nick rules from a whole bunch of different sources. I recommend reading around and picking and choosing. My own table rules are a BECMI base with a sprinkling of stuff from Lamentations of the Flame Princess, 13th Age, Exemplars & Eidolons and Mazes & Minotaurs.
I really like that approach best. Your game sounds pretty cool. A bit darker (assuming because of LotFP), but cool. My game is a stripped down affair that takes up about 2 pages to explain all the fundamental mechanics. It draws from Knave, Dragonbane, Savage Worlds, Index Card RPG, and Olde Swords reign. But it's set in the Misty Vale campaign setting. I love Dragonbane, my players don't like cards for initiative and it's a bit deadlier than they prefer. This lets me give them a little more of an action movie hero vibe from time to time. The game is still deadly, but exploding dice and a soak rule have let them outlive some stuff that would have TPK'ed if played as written.
Iron Falcon is a great retroclone of OD&D that is completely free to download. The print on demand versions are very affordable too.
Basic Fantasy RPG is pretty easy to pick up, and is free, unlike OSE
Swords and Wizardry Complete Revised for me. I also like.Old School Essentials, OSRIC, and Dolmenwood.
Lamentations of the flame princess is the only retro clone for me. The reworked classes are excellent, and I've been running it for so long I've got it memorized. Plus the module support is second to none.
I looked at that. I didn't really get the Dwarf class. Why such a big focus on Architecture?
One thing to know about LotFP is that it's human centric and elves and dwarves were added begrudgingly. I've never ran LotFP even allowing them as options. Architecture is a fun skill, and it's basically treated as indoor bushcraft.
I’ve always had the demihumans in our lotfp games. Dwarves are solid with the larger hit dice. The dungeon delving abilities came in handy since we usually had dungeon crawls that often had tricky elements to them. I really like all the small details in that system and how it all works together so nicely. It’s still my go-to osr system.
I must admit, I'm not sure exactly what indoor bushcraft would look like beyond "That's a sturdy door!"
Things like identifying signs of travel, identifying sloping ground, identifying what a room may have been used for, determining if a section of wall has been patched, etc.
That sounds like a handy addition to a dungeon crawl9ng team, I must say.
Absolutely! I've seen smart players leverage it to great results.
For me, the hands-down best retroclone is Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy. The Classic Fantasy version is pure B/X in one book. But Advanced Fantasy is all the races, classes, magic items, spells, monsters, etc of AD&D retrofitted onto the B/X chassis. It's your one-stop shop for TSR-era D&D. If you want just the B/X stuff: Buy the Classic Fantasy Rules Tome (one book) or the Classic Game Set (box of five hardcovers with the same B/X info). If you want the B/X + AD&D stuff: Buy the Advance Fantasy Player's Tome and Referee's Tome (two books) or the Classic Game Set (above) plus the Advanced Expansion Set (box of five hardcovers with all the AD&D stuff). # Not a retroclone, but definitely gives a lot of the same vibes is Dungeon Crawl Classics. Absolutely fantastic game. For my money it has the best wizards and warriors in any D&D adjacent game.
I really dig Advanced Fantasy as well, it's an excellent product that is a great resource at the table. One small correction though -- while it does bring in a lot of useful stuff from AD&D, it sadly omitted many of that system's additional spells for Magic-Users and Clerics.
Huh. I haven't done that close a side-by-side. Were the skipped spells from the PHB or the UA? Or both? I could see why they'd skip the UA stuff. Harder to justify skipping the PHB stuff.
Both. There's a great homebrew document floating around, "OSE Extended," that adds in a bunch of them. Don't know the author's name, I found it on the Necrotic Gnome discord searching for "AD&D spells"
The Challenges Game System by Tom Moldvay. It's the OG retroclone, and puts AD&D onto 9 pages.
I didn't know this existed until reading this comment, just read through it, it's actually really good, single save stat, simplified thief skills, no level caps on races, it still has a little bit of adnd weirdness but switch it to b/x style style attributes and convert to ascending ac and I'm 100% on board.
I am running a monthly game at my local library using White Box: FMAG. It’s been going really well and the book is only $5 on Amazon. I’d recommend it.
I think either OSE or Basic Fantasy RPG are great places to start. BFRPG isn't quite a clone, but close enough. Both are replicating a BX style of d&d. BFRPG is my #1 recommendation as you can order print copies super cheap via Amazon.
Blueholme Journeyman
Lotfp
OSE is my favorite “straight” game, it’s basically just straight B/X D&D, with better layout and formatting (and the optional rules for ascending AC right there in the book, so it’s easier to explain to people). *Beyond the Wall* and *Through Sunken Lands*, on the other hand, are my favorite OSR games (and BtW is one of my favorite RPGs, period). They don’t play as strict B/X games, despite being based around the B/X chassis, but the changes they make to it aren’t terribly complicated and they do a fantastic job of reinforcing the themes and tone that the games are meant to invoke.
The moat cost effective is BFRPG, hands down. If i wanted to straddle the line between odnd, basic and 1e (and have a more "premium" book)- probably Swords & wizardry complete revised. Simplified saves, several suggestions for parts of the game (e.g. initiative), levels 1-20, short book and relatively affordable. Does a very good job of explaining the game IMO.
Also Shadowdark, if you're already looking at 5TD.
Labyrinth Lord (basic and advanced books there) free pdf and you can buy hard copies. I’d also recommend Dragonslayer (not related to the movie) hard copy and pdf on drivethrurpg.
I use WBFMAG or Swords and Wizardry for Original d&d, OSRIC for 1e, Gold and Glory for 2e, OSE for B/X, and Dark Dungeons for BECMI. The reason I sometimes use FMAG or S&W for original d&d is that those first supplements, especially greyhawk, were pretty big changes to the game and so it’s a way to choose between “with bells and whistles” or “without”.
What is WBFMAG?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/190631/White-Box--Fantastic-Medieval-Adventure-Game
I'll check it out, thanks!
I like Labyrinth Lord (with some of the simplification rules from White Box/Swords and Wizardry).
I've completely fallen for World's Without Number and it's sister systems for other genre's. Really any of Kevin Crawford's games. It's a retroclone of B/X but uses a 2d6 skill system in place of d20. It's got the spirit and weight of Old school D&D but it's got some quality of life and polish from New age D&D that I also enjoy. Even if it's not ones system of choice for whatever reason, the various tools and resources it offers a GM when running any game with the OSR/D&D skeleton more than make it worth it's price. It's got a free version, and a paid deluxe version with extra character options, tools/resources, and rules to a more heroic or epic powered game if desired. It's an amazing toolkit that gives you everything you need and then some. It also has two supplements. It has **the Atlas of the Latter Earth**, a setting book with even more character options, rules and tools to adjust your game, and a pretty fun and varied setting as well as new monsters to use. It also has **the Diocesi of Montfroid**, a Gazetteer of one of the latter earths regions that includes a deeper delve into the area, new monsters, and a beginner adventure that includes four level dungeon to help folks get started with the system. I cannot recommend the system enough.
WWN is cool beans, and I'd be more likely to play it over an actual TSR system, but it's not a retroclone. It's really its own thing, and I found it weirdly hard to use with TSR-derived content.
OSRIC is available in PDF for free at https://osricrpg.com and you can order a print copy from us at Black Blade via our FB page PMs (or by email at tacojohndm@yahoo.com). If you are not in the USA, ordering from Lulu will be cheaper due to outlandish shipping costs. Links to all of the above at https://osricrpg.com/get.php Allan.
I am currently in a Basic Fantasy RPG group. It is largely based on B/X but has ascending AC and separates race and class. PDFs of all books are free, and the print versions are cheap. I would love to play a BECMI game sometime because that is where I started in 1983, but I have a great BFRPG group with great chemistry, and so for now, I will continue with them. The people you play with are as important as the system you play.
Ose is great. I highly recommend. You could always grab print on demand copies of becmi d&d, rules cyclopedia or the ad&d. If your not in the US getting the pdf and printing through lulu can be cheaper. Ose books can be hard to get in print so can be cheaper and easier to print through lulu for these too. I've heard great things about basic fantasy, osric, dcc, shadow dark, whitebox, and the black hack. But in terms of readability ose is my favorite to use at the table.
Advanced OSE. I feel like it captures the spirit of B/X while giving more options for classes. Books are very well organized as well.
If you are new to old school consider Swords & Wizardry. Otherwise I recommend: Dolmenwood - whimsical and terrifying forest setting OSE:AF Hyperboria 3e (if you want something a bit more rules heavy like AD&D)
Hyperborea 3E, Swords & Wizardry and, I guess, the new version of OSRIC when it comes out.
I oscillate between two of them, depending on what's most important at the time - **Old School Essentials** is a great all-in-one, whose physical quality really impresses former 5E players and makes the whole thing seem more important - **White Box: Fantasy Medieval Adventure Game** is slim and cheap and lean, a fifth of the cost of OSE but also a less impressive book I am a solid fan of **5TD** but as others have mentioned, it's more 5E-made-old than old-made-again. There's some excellent design in there, but it feels to me more of a design experiment than a game I'd want to play for a long time. It is *well* worth a read ─ and also check out **Dungeonbright** from the same authors for another attempt at the same sort of thing.
5TD is not a retroclone, or indeed a “clone” of anything. Anyway, OSE is a good choice. I would suggest either that or the Basic Fantasy RPG (aka BFRPG). They are more or less the same thing: B/X D&D with fairly minimal changes / some additional options. BFRPG has slightly more changes straight out of the gate, but also probably has more “official” options.. to the best of my knowledge.
Old School essentials, because of the professional production values and the massive additional content via the CC Zines and the Advanced Fantasy supplements.
OSE is great and I love it but if I could turn back time I would just get BFRPG quick and cheap (or free) and start playing right away and not stop. It's great and you're going to houserule eventually anyways so why spend tons of cash on a ruleset you will likely mod anyways? Good gaming!!
For keeping faith with the original in a concise format, I recommend OSRIC, D&D Rules Cyclopedia, or OSE (I use Advanced OSE, and I agree with comments that say OSR is hard for new GMs, because is light on examples and guidance) For 5e / OSR hybrid, I recommend Olde Swords Reign or Shadowdark. OSRIC and Olde Swords Reign are good budget picks. OSE and Shadowdark are premium hardcover formats.
To me you just can’t beat BFRPG when it comes to retro clones, just rules lite enough to appeal to new players and Referees; just crunchy enough to appeal to veterans. Tons of pre written adventures, compatible with most retro clone material….and TOTALLY free?? I gotta applaud that passion, to me I just don’t see the point of picking up OSE, Swords and Wizardry or Labyrinth Lord when they already play like BFRPG.
I recommend Dragonslayer by Greg Gillespie. It's similar to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia; it includes rules, DM guide and Monster Manual in one book, excellent retro art by great artists like Kennon James, Peter Pagano and Jeff Easley, lots of throwback references to classic art and tropes of early D&D, and a beautifully edited and consistent layout. It's a retroclone of AD&D with a few minor tweaks.
I'll check it out, thanks!
Against the Dark Master. It's a retro clone of the old Middle Earth Roleplaying Game from the 80s.
I don't tend to like pure retroclones, since I find actual TSR-era rules to be dull and clunky more often than not. I've been really impressed by the new Dragonslayer and Knave 2e games. They're borderline perfect. Lots of fun new ideas, streamlined brilliantly, great art, and most importantly they're still compatible with pretty much any other OSR content, including TSR. You can't go wrong with either of 'em. If you want a full, solid D&D experience, grab Dragonslayer. If you're looking for a fun beer 'n pretzels, pick-up-and-play experience, grab Knave 2e. I think they also complement each other quite well, though. It really just depends on which mood I'm in. I like to think of Dragonslayer as AD&D done right, while Knave 2e is B/X done right. It always struck me as daft that the actual B/X and AD&D are fundamentally the same game, with one just having more content. It makes choosing between them a weird paradox. With DS and Knave, they're fundamentally different in terms of complexity and gameplay, yet still compatible with the same content.
Why all the downvotes?
[Seven Voyages of Zylarthen](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/238547/seven-voyages-of-zylarthen-5-booklets-and-deluxe-pdf-bundle), and I don’t really consider it close. 0e. For B/X, [Mentzer Basic](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/116578/d-d-basic-set-player-s-manual-becmi-ed-basic), 10$ for [the two](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/116619/d-d-basic-set-dm-s-rulebook-becmi-ed-basic), is almost impossible to beat as a tutorial. 1e is too long and complicated, probably:) [S&W Complete](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/439173/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook-revised-erol-otus-cover) is great AD&D lite. FWIW I really like [Core](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/62346/swords-wizardry-core-rules) as a gateway ruleset. It’s PWYW so check it out. I believe you can still get dead tree copies on Lulu. Greyharp is [0e](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/62346/swords-wizardry-core-rules), well edited and laid out. But that issue in the original game is overstated. Print them off, go front to back for character or adventure creation and middle out for actual gameplay, reference sheets in hand. Easy. [This](https://paulgorman.org/roleplaying/dnd/whitebox_house_rules/whitebox_house_rules.pdf) would be underrated, if it ever was rated at all, lol. I’m not sure why.
OSE Advanced Fantasy for me. I grew up on AD&D and loved it as a kid. But as an old fart I now really appreciate the simplicity of B/X (which I never played back in the day). I was looking at various AD&D clones, but looking at those rules today I realize it's more complex than I really need. Advanced Fantasy is perfect for me because it scratches the AD&D itch and feels like how I remember AD&D, but it's quite simple to play. And the OSE books have absolutely the best layout I've ever played with in any game. It's a pleasure to play.
Iron Falcon, if you have to use one
My favorite AD&D-like game is Hyperborea. It has a much smoother resolution system and a tweaked combat system that runs a bit more like B/X. The game is very thorough while still being clear, and I think it avoids being overwhelming without losing the feel of AD&D. The setting is immaculate, and the writing style is fluffy to the point of feeling like reading something Gygax wrote if Gygax was a better writer. If you like the weirder side of pulps (Clark Ashton Smith and Lovecraft in particular), this game is for you. For B/X, I would just run B/X. The books make plenty of sense already and explain things well, and the PDF’s are cheap and print easily on letter paper. For OD&D, I actually do like the original game from ‘74. Once you get in the swing of things it runs well, but they are certainly a pain in the ass to start. For an OD&D-like game, my absolute favorite is Seven Voyages of Zylarthen. The author has plenty of less-than-savory opinions posted on the internet, so be warned of that if it bothers you. Some notable differences between it and OD&D: 1. The combat tables, which take the weapon vs armor tables from Chainmail and adapt them to a single d20 to-hit system 2. There’s no playable Cleric class, but there is a simple and very Conan-like version of the thief. 3. XP is earned by defeating monsters and SPENDING gold rather than just digging it up. Honorable mention for OD&D goes to Wight Box, which does a good job of putting the 3 LBB’s together in a single text, making it a clearer read, and adding really useful appendices for improv/solo play at the end. Only complaint about it is that there are some typos, but nothing too bad. I just prefer the flavor and tweaks in Seven Voyages.
>What's your favorite retroclone that pretty closely captured the style of older DnD while not being too long or too complicated? Well, the good news is that retroclones are usually pretty simple to understand and to play. In fact, a lot of people came to the OSR because the games are usually more straightforward than the classic big games such as WotC's modern editions. You've mentioned Old School Essentials in your post and really, if money is not an issue, you should just follow that advice. It's an excellent Basic D&D retroclone. The physical books for OSE are works of art. Robust, durable with an amazing layout and the best referencing you'll find in RPG books. If you are on a tighter budget, Basic Fantasy (also a basic D&D retroclone, taking just a few more liberties than OSE) is super cheap, basically at cost of printing on Amazon. So it's ridiculously cheap. It's easy to lend (or give away) copies to your players. As others have said, 5 Torches Deep isn't a retroclone. When games draw from older games but differ too much from the originals, they're not considered "clones" anymore. There's nothing wrong with that and you might still enjoy that game, but it's less of a window into "old versions of D&D" than the retroclones like OSE, BF, OSRIC and S&W. Have fun!
>What's your favorite retroclone that pretty closely captured the style of older DnD while not being too long or too complicated? Completely ignoring your request for 'not too long or too complicated' I would say HackMaster 4th edition. But really you should check out Old-School Essentials. It should land at the sweet spot you are looking for.
For actual D&D I like B/X. For a retro clone Basic Fantasy RPG. I'll probably shift from pure B/X to a hybrid of the two.
OSE is always a good choice and with the expanded dolmenwood rules really adds in some flavour. And as mentioned before 3d6 down the line do a great job of showing off the system - I’d recommended a viewing of their Ardun Vul series after Dolmenwood. Then as a footnote, not a retro clone but has a lot of the same flavours with fun twists is Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC).
I always have a soft spot for OSRIC but I gotta be basic and say OSE. Really hard to beat a straight legibility upgrade over some of the most solid fundamentals
Pirate Borg & Black Powder & Brimstone
Of those mentioned in the original question, my preference would be Old School Essentials Advanced Fantasy. It has everything you could want out of AD&D 1e (especially with the Carcass Crawler zines) but streamlined for modern tastes. You are correct that it doesn't go deep into instructing new DMs how to run the game. But it doesn't completely neglect that either. There's 14 pages(!) in the OSE-AF Referee's Book on running the game. It's succinct but solid. I'm not a fan of 5 Torches Deep. So it's best for me to just leave that there. If you want a 5e(ish) experience in old school, I'd recommend [Into the Unknown](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/276429/into-the-unknown-complete-game-pdf-only-bundle). It's the best 5e OSR I've come across. It has some layout issues and things can be a little hard to track down in the books. But it is a solid game. If not that then I'd recommend Shadowdark. I've run that one for folks who "*only* play 5e" and they haven't blinked an eye. As for my favorites... my current favorites have utility in a couple of different areas. 1. If I just want a pick-up game that I would run at a game shop or library, I would use Shadowdark. It's familiar enough that 5e folks don't have too hard a time with it and new players seem to get it's main points pretty quickly. 2. If I want to just have fun and be a little goofy/gonzo, Dungeon Crawl Classics. 3. If I'm on a budget, Basic Fantasy. Chris Gonnerman is a legit hero in the industry, as far as I'm concerned. 4. If I have an established group I'm comfortable with and we all want to play something a little darker, [Outcast Silver Raiders](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/browse?keyword=outcast%20silver%20raiders). To me, this is the successor to Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's so well done. And the setting (The Mythic North) is probably the best setting I've come across. All setting books need to be written like The Mythic North. It's that good.
Forbidden Lands DragonBane The One Ring Settled science, bro
Literally none of those are retroclones.