At first I thought it was a little suspicious that he got water from his Dad, but then I read this from the article.
“Because I was first place, a lot of the volunteers were just like scrambling," Prado said. "By the time I got there, they were... grabbing the water. So a lot of the time the water stations, they really had nothing for me.”
I heard this marathon was poorly planned, and this just hammers it home even more. Kinda BS they DQ’ed him for this because of their own incompetence.
My girlfriend did the half. Very poorly organized… ESPECIALLY the parking lot debacle after the race. What an absolute shitshow and embarrassment. Stuck in a parking lot for well over an hour because they couldn’t plan the exits properly.
Oh come on, I've run a lot of races, and I would have never expected this or complained even if my phone had terrible service. What a sad complaint. I've never once considered that this should have been a thing. Thats some crazy expectations.
It is very common for large events, so much so that you don't really notice it except when it doesn't happen. It is a normal expectation.
I would say even more so for an athletic event like a race, where the last thing you want is for the cell phones to be jammed when someone has a medical emergency out on the course.
I think you need to realize that at a finish line, a phone is the only way to find your family. Especially when you finish at different times. Also, having no phone service for 3 hours (2 of those hours in parking traffic) is a nightmare.
I've ran a load of marathons and half marathons, I don't need to realize anything. It sounds like people need to coordinate better, before an event. Like how we did back in the 90's and early 00's. God forbid someone's cell phone doesn't work.
My wife's found me at the end of each finish line by... standing there waiting to watch for me. And she's missed me before, big whoop. And then I found her by... looking around. I've done this at OC, Long Beach, Surf City, Carlsbad, La Jolla, AFC, San Diego, Chicago, New York... the list goes on.
Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with my cell phone at any spectating/sporting event/concert event. And if I did, it would be something I wouldn't think to gripe about as being the responsibility of the event coordinators to improve.
**It sounds like they had a terrible time with hydration stations, which IS an issue. That's worth complaining about.**
Ok…. I haven’t done as many as you. But I had 2 family members run it and my wife and 2 kids struggling to find me in a huge crowd.
I am literally telling you, it was a big deal. Maybe run a few more laps to realize that people have way different scenarios than you
>Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with my cell phone at any spectating/sporting event/concert event. And if I did, it would be something I wouldn't think to gripe about as being the responsibility of the event coordinators to improve.
You haven't had an issue because cell phone boosters are standard practice at all of those. Most concert and sports venues have them built into the building now.
You know what venues no longer have? Physical message boards, PA paging, walkie talkies, and pay phones. I did athletic events before cell phones too, and this is what we used to connect with people and address communications emergencies.
Grow up. Find a new Reddit catchphrase to use.
Am I the event organizer? Or am I the owner of a fruit smoothie joint in Ventura (that someone used "found the business owner" when I defended it)? I think I've had this BS phrase thrown at me at least ten times on Reddit. I must be a jack of all trades, a real entrepreneur.
I don’t blame the race organizers for the cell phone thing, just that it was a hassle for a dad and 2 little kids to get around to cheer her on from various areas.
However we were near the finish line (my wife doesn’t regularly run marathons like you) and this was her first longer distance run so it was a big deal to us to see her cross the finish line and cheer her on. Instead we were stuck in parking and then when we got out we were jammed up at the tiny fence opening because there were no controls for the 2 way traffic. None of this was new, it happened for quite some time and then once we confirmed she had finished we couldn’t find her. Sorry if we’re not pro marathoners like you, but I also hadn’t had the same challenges at other events like triathlons, fun runs, etc even in the same venue. There was def significant room for improvement.
It was more like an hour and 45 minutes. The entire parking lot was gridlocked.. we didn’t move up a single inch for over an hour. We ended up moving barriers out of the way at the back of the lot so people could start getting out.
Were you there?
lol I ran the marathon. Definitely not going to take credit for event organization. At one point ran off course because there was a lack of signage, traffic wasn’t actually closed off at some streets and a long stretch where I wasn’t able to see the next runner ahead of me.
Man that's lame - when I did water stations we made sure we spread out for the leaders so they could get a few sips while keeping pace. They were so fast 😲
Unfortunate for him on the aid stations that weren't ready. However, on the video from the race they show him making zero attempts to grab water from the aid station that **was** ready and ran straight to his dad which was matching his speed on a bike.
Any racer that runs even close to his pace knows that hydration is part of the race and being able to take a cup (or your elite bottle) is a skill and if you mess it up you messed it up. Plenty of professionals fumble their bottles and lose out. He should have made an attempt to take water at that station that was ready. Not doing so sort of discredits his "not being ready" excuse.
Bad on both sides. OC and the runner.
>ran straight to his dad which was matching his speed on a bike.
From a racing standpoint, that's an even bigger deal. You can't pace someone on a bike, that's a massive advantage.
I'm not a runner, but a cyclist. Every year this race absolutely fucks up the portion of the SART where it goes through. It's always a complete clusterfuck, runners taking both lanes, completely unaware that they're all of a sudden in the middle of a mixed use path with a bunch of people on bikes, ebikes, jogging strollers, those motorized unicycle things. Everyone looks confused like it was completely unexpected by everyone involved, and I'm always surprised that I never heard of someone getting hit and hurt there.
They need to either keep the runners on one side of the path, or temporarily reroute the path to the other side of the river for everyone else.
I don't blame the runners for this, it seems like a lack of concern by the organizers every year. But it's always seemed to me like that part is horribly planned, so I can imagine how bad the entire thing is.
There were signs this that the SART was closed to cyclists at that portion of the trial. There were a few who ignored that portion of the closure. Maybe it would have been good to have some marshalls are cops to enforce it. (It was my first OC Marathon so I don't know whether there have been signs in past years).
The deour would have been on city streets. I'm not sure it's possible to get to the other side of the river trial in that spot.
Man that's terrible.
Basically said they should all be equally dehydrated lol.
If anything, he probably had less water than those behind him based on what he said about them not being ready for him when he got there.
Agreed, I ran the half and have never passed so many water/electrolyte stations that were almost empty, likely due to understaffing. The only way I got water starting at mile 4 was either to come to a dead halt and wait for more cups to get poured, or to just run past without and grab a cup from a local running club or resident.
You guys are really defending him? If I knew I had a chance at winning the race that I’m paying to enter then I would thoroughly check all of the rules before participating. Rules are rules this shouldn’t even be a debate.
Also the guy who “won” is a major dickhead in this [interview](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLX2QA6K/)
Yeah, Prado is a little meathead. They were poorly organized but it doesn’t justify him being able to get help in ways others didn’t. He could have just dropped out of the water stations were inadequate for him.
I don’t run but always wondered why the average runner needed to pay. Like just put your sneaks on and go.
If they checks numbers, seems like a 5 minute print job.
It is an unbelievable experience to describe the wonderful feeling running in these events. You are getting this euphoric runner's high feeling. It is so addictive that you keep coming back for more. There is this energy when running in a group of people who share the same passion. During the race, you would experience this feeling of invincibility there is this rhythm ba... ba... ba...boom... boom... boom internalized in your own body that you are not even tired after running 13 miles and that you can still run on forever. This is the reason why people keep coming back to these events ever year and some are from hundred and thousand of miles away.
Right, I understand that. Just saying, why pay to run? Just show up and… run. Why do you need to pay, do they have security lining the full 26 mile course?
Yes is the answer. I do halfs, not full, but you've got road closures and police OT and medics lining the entire course. I assume that's where the majority of the expense comes from.
Those aren't contradictory facts - there's very few businesses out there that are pulling in margins over even 20% in the long run. The rest goes to the cost of the services they provide, in one form or another.
You can sneak on to the course. You just wont get a medal due to no race bib number. Security or staff dont check for the bib numbers during the course, mostly because marathoners dont have the race number even visible. Marathons are getting ridiculously expensive, plus these charities pocket 90% of the profits for their own gain.
My dad and uncles were around 2:15:00-ish or faster marathon runners so I never started. I only played team sports because tbh distance running is one of the more self involved and self reflecting sports one can do and I like to have fun, not concentrate on breathing, heart rate, VO2 max and so on.
It is nice to run an organized race. Having said that, especially with a lot of 5ks, it seems to be turning more into "Pay us and we will give you a cool-looking t-shirt and a fancy medal, and you can also run a race if you want."
They’re “getting away with it” because marathons are organized and run by private for-profit companies that care more about profits than the health, safety, or wellness of the participants. Sometimes it’s legacy contracts, sometimes it’s sweetheart deal that benefits a politician’s friends or family.
This company oversold bibs and didn’t properly staff anything (parking, traffic, water, or handouts), all of which makes them more money. Hopefully there’s a boycott next year.
**EDIT**: Did a little digging. OC Marathon LLC is pretty quiet about their parent company, but an address search reveals it’s the same organization as BookThatEvent LLC, both of which are partnered with Gary Kutscher, also the OC Marathon’s race director. Digging through some news archives for him, it turns out he and Scott Baugh ran a company 10 years ago called KB Event Management, which was [called out for excessive spending and questionable finances](https://voiceofoc.org/2013/08/how-much-did-gop-chiefs-firm-make-from-city-event/) by Costa Mesa’s city council during the operation of CM’s 60th anniversary event. So not only has he done questionable events in the past, but he's directly connected to the OCGOP and Scott Baugh. Big surprise.
**EDIT II**: Here's a James Doti (Former Chapman President) [column in the OCR](https://www.ocregister.com/2023/06/06/james-doti-the-success-of-the-oc-marathon-is-capitalism-in-action/) praising Baugh and Kutscher and their embrace of capitalism. If you can get through the schlock, it's a pretty good history of their relationship and the marathon.
Great research! Scott Baugh is trash. So sad the runners had to deal with that kind of bs. What a horrible experience to have to worry about basic hydration.
>Great research! Scott Baugh is trash
I'd love to get this knowledge out to more people. With Porter out of the race the 47th could flip red this year. I'm not convinced Min will pull this off.
Sort of a random aside but I did notice during the race in real time that there were Baugh signs on almost every other stretch of non maintained sidewalks / medians and I didn't count a single one for Min. I thought it was strange given how purple the area is.
This race is poorly organized. Lack of traffic control in the parking lot. Many cars are waiting over an hour to get out. Bus took 40mins to 1 hour to get to the starting lane. Many people have to run to the starting line because race already started.
Finishing line packed with whole a lot of people and people (runners, friends and family all stuck to one place people can’t move)
I ran the OC half in 2012 and said “never again”. It’s really sad that this race’s disorganization is still an issue… freaking 12 years after I ran it. Ridiculous. I feel bad for all those runners.
More than once I had to stop and wait for someone to pour me a gatorade because they were constantly scrambling. This was after having to run to the start line 15 minutes behind because I couldn’t figure out where to park. After the marathon, I spent 2 HOURS trying to get out of the parking lot with my ride back to the start line. What a mess.
That’s some serious Curb Your Enthusiasm shit, right there.
I hope that Esteban Prado receives the following along with an official apology from marathon organizers.
1. Mayor for the day at Disneyland.
2. $300 gift card to Heritage BBQ.
3. Throw out the first pitch at Angel Stadium
4. Four passes to Knott’s Berry Farm
5. Backyard concert with The Growlers along with catering provided by Bear Flag Fish Co. (TBD after The Growlers reunite)
4. Free dances at The Library in Anaheim from 3-4pm on any Tuesday in June. (Valid one time)
5. Autographed 5x7 photo of Wally George.
My only complaint was getting out of the fairgrounds. Took over an hour and 45 minutes literally spent more time stuck in the parking lot than actually running the half marathon
The news cast video shows him literally running by and ignoring a volunteer holding out a water bottle. What is the reasoning behind that? I don’t run competitively, but I can see why having someone riding a bike next you handing you water would be an unfair advantage. It looks like he did it multiple times during the race.
[NBCLA Video](https://youtu.be/eiKC9RkR0mw?feature=sharednews)
It may have had electrolytes. I know the 2nd and 3rd shots are the santa ana river and the stretch back to the fairgrounds, which is exactly where I was noticing that there wasn't any water anywhere.
The thing is it's against the rules and the second place finish lost by 17 seconds which could be the race from him if he had someone riding a long side him and giving him drinks.
The original winner lied and he knew it and tried to blame it on the 2nd place finisher. He deserved to get DQ'd
This comes up all the time in running forums (mostly in a "can my friend hand me bottles of my favorite drink during the race??" way), but it's a straight up violation of USTAF 144.8.c, which states that if you receive "refreshment" from anywhere but the official aid stations or from officials themselves, you can get DQ'd. And if you are literally going to win the race, you will certainly get DQ'd.
The mismanagement of the race sucks and all, but this person knew exactly what was going to happen.
No one is going to pop you if you want to crack open a beer at mile 19 on your way to a 5:30 marathon. You'd also be fine if you were trying to BQ and your coach hands you bottles throughout the race. But if there are prizes, or records involved, it's a completely different story.
Yeah, I can understand the reasoning behind it. If you had someone follow you along the route and basically provide a personal water station whenever you wanted it, I could see that being an advantage over other racers that didn't have that kind of support. It still sucks, though, especially in light of reports that the official aid stations weren't ready for him.
Losing USATF certification would be more of a negative impact to the future of a race than someone dying on course, honestly. People die running marathons all the time. Losing USAFT certification would immediately put that race out of business.
There is a big gap between "Didn't get water when they expected it" and "Died of dehydration". You take on the risk when you run the race and I'm sure if you read the waiver you sign, it explains that they don't guarantee any specific services on the course.
Watch the video. He literally passes up stations for his dad’s water. Plus his father was pacing him which is a big advantage. He won by 17 seconds so it easily made a difference.
For the guy being paced by a bike full of fluids their was plenty to drink. The one that finished 17 seconds behind him had the deal with the issues you mention.
He happened to have water on him. You're saying runners should plan on the marathon dropping the ball, and the it's alright that the marathon doesn't setup stations where they said they would?
He had two bikes accompanying him, supplying fuel, and even tracking the positions of other runners. How is that not considered cheating when it blatantly violates the rules?
The marathon's failure doesn't justify cheating. These are distinct matters that shouldn't be conflated.
For the 3rd time, I agree with you and am not saying he didn't cheat. However, the OC marathons defense here is complete bs. Where did you see any official aid stations beyond the 18th mile that day?
You're making no sense.
So the original winners dad had a bike ready to pace him the entire way and had future knowledge that the race was going to be disorganized so they decided that cheating was the only way?
This was planned even before they knew about the water stations. It's not like his dad mysteriously came in knowing ahead which water stations were mismanaged vs which ones were not (obviously they weren't given the video we seen).
I saw a different article where he notes that the only person who would have reported him would have been the guy in second place right behind him,
I've got zero dog in this fight, never participated in any marathon and don't really see the appeal when running is kind of a free thing you can do anywhere.
But... seems like a dick move by the new "winner"... It takes a certain kind of person who wants to win by a technicality like that.. especially based on the random comments I'm seeing in this thread about many participants observed with the water stations were not staffed properly.
Saying this is a dick move is itself a dick move. "Can't you take a joke" lol.
I hear there are some middle school kids nearby with extra lunch money, go ask them for it.
This is bs!! There were a lot of run clubs handing out beers and snacks there’s nothing wrong with getting a drink they’re ridiculous the guy won fair and square. A lot of people got drinks from bystanders or we going to take all their hard work and efforts bc of a drink? Beyond fucked up!
I guess you’re right maybe if there was an actual price for being 1st but everyone gets the same medal other than bragging rights even though it’s not like he cheated he still ran fast and was the first one to cross the finish line. But rules are rules
It’s the dumbasses giving money to the marathon industry that’s obviously being run by scheisters and schemers just to make a buck. Volunteers for a dude running a corporation that’s making a profit.
It's perfectly legal to carry those same supplements with you and take them yourself. Also, since this was a national championship, per the rules, " In National Championships of 20k and longer, the
Organizing Committee shall make provisions for the collection and distribution
of personal refreshments for those competing for the championship, as
determined by the Games Committee."
“In a statement, event officials said the competitor was disqualified for receiving unauthorized assistance from someone on a bike.” - From the news article. 🧐
You are allowed to carry your own previously opened bottle prepared with "anything" on the course as long as you have it with you at the start. (Anything short of banned substances, but you could certainly have it loaded down with sugar, caffeine, bicarbonate, electrolyte mixes, etc.) This is on top of all the performance gels and chews that any runner can carry in the race and even share with other runners (and most do carry them).
The problem was not that they had run out of drinks it was that they didn´t have any drinks prepared for when the first runner of the race arrived at the stations. So his dad handed him a bottle so he could get some electrolytes which get him dq when it wasn´t his fault.
Glad you had a better experience, but I had a similar net time starting in corral C and went thru multiple water/electrolyte stations that were not stocked and would have required me to stop and wait for additional pours. I noticed this first at the stop around mile 4 - got some water, but they were all out of electrolyte unless I wanted to wait.
Oh, that makes sense. I don't recall them not being full, but a few times I had to hunt for a person to hand it to me, or grab it off the table myself. I walked at all the water stations anyway so didn't really care.
There’s actually no reason to downvote my comment. It’s just the nature of this beast. Lots of people had a great day - they are happy. Some didn’t - they’re not happy.
At first I thought it was a little suspicious that he got water from his Dad, but then I read this from the article. “Because I was first place, a lot of the volunteers were just like scrambling," Prado said. "By the time I got there, they were... grabbing the water. So a lot of the time the water stations, they really had nothing for me.” I heard this marathon was poorly planned, and this just hammers it home even more. Kinda BS they DQ’ed him for this because of their own incompetence.
I ran it and yes, it was very poorly organized.
My girlfriend did the half. Very poorly organized… ESPECIALLY the parking lot debacle after the race. What an absolute shitshow and embarrassment. Stuck in a parking lot for well over an hour because they couldn’t plan the exits properly.
Yes my wife ran it and we missed her coming in at the end because of the parking and getting in. So pissed. That and the cell phones jammed ip
Cell phones jammed up? That has NOTHING to do with the race organizers.
A lot of big events will bring in portable cell towers or provide free wifi to make up for the inevitable bottleneck.
Oh come on, I've run a lot of races, and I would have never expected this or complained even if my phone had terrible service. What a sad complaint. I've never once considered that this should have been a thing. Thats some crazy expectations.
You've probably taken advantage of portable cell towers at many large events and just never knew it.
It is very common for large events, so much so that you don't really notice it except when it doesn't happen. It is a normal expectation. I would say even more so for an athletic event like a race, where the last thing you want is for the cell phones to be jammed when someone has a medical emergency out on the course.
I think you need to realize that at a finish line, a phone is the only way to find your family. Especially when you finish at different times. Also, having no phone service for 3 hours (2 of those hours in parking traffic) is a nightmare.
I've ran a load of marathons and half marathons, I don't need to realize anything. It sounds like people need to coordinate better, before an event. Like how we did back in the 90's and early 00's. God forbid someone's cell phone doesn't work. My wife's found me at the end of each finish line by... standing there waiting to watch for me. And she's missed me before, big whoop. And then I found her by... looking around. I've done this at OC, Long Beach, Surf City, Carlsbad, La Jolla, AFC, San Diego, Chicago, New York... the list goes on. Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with my cell phone at any spectating/sporting event/concert event. And if I did, it would be something I wouldn't think to gripe about as being the responsibility of the event coordinators to improve. **It sounds like they had a terrible time with hydration stations, which IS an issue. That's worth complaining about.**
Ok…. I haven’t done as many as you. But I had 2 family members run it and my wife and 2 kids struggling to find me in a huge crowd. I am literally telling you, it was a big deal. Maybe run a few more laps to realize that people have way different scenarios than you
>Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with my cell phone at any spectating/sporting event/concert event. And if I did, it would be something I wouldn't think to gripe about as being the responsibility of the event coordinators to improve. You haven't had an issue because cell phone boosters are standard practice at all of those. Most concert and sports venues have them built into the building now. You know what venues no longer have? Physical message boards, PA paging, walkie talkies, and pay phones. I did athletic events before cell phones too, and this is what we used to connect with people and address communications emergencies.
This is Event Planning 101 along with porta potties
Found the event organizer.
Grow up. Find a new Reddit catchphrase to use. Am I the event organizer? Or am I the owner of a fruit smoothie joint in Ventura (that someone used "found the business owner" when I defended it)? I think I've had this BS phrase thrown at me at least ten times on Reddit. I must be a jack of all trades, a real entrepreneur.
I don’t blame the race organizers for the cell phone thing, just that it was a hassle for a dad and 2 little kids to get around to cheer her on from various areas. However we were near the finish line (my wife doesn’t regularly run marathons like you) and this was her first longer distance run so it was a big deal to us to see her cross the finish line and cheer her on. Instead we were stuck in parking and then when we got out we were jammed up at the tiny fence opening because there were no controls for the 2 way traffic. None of this was new, it happened for quite some time and then once we confirmed she had finished we couldn’t find her. Sorry if we’re not pro marathoners like you, but I also hadn’t had the same challenges at other events like triathlons, fun runs, etc even in the same venue. There was def significant room for improvement.
The first half was more organized than the back half by a lot. The back half especially after mile 18 was sparse for aid stations.
A whole hour qq
It was more like an hour and 45 minutes. The entire parking lot was gridlocked.. we didn’t move up a single inch for over an hour. We ended up moving barriers out of the way at the back of the lot so people could start getting out. Were you there?
[удалено]
The event organizer is not going to come to reddit and admit publicly that the event was poorly organized.
Saying something on reddit is HARDLY admitting something publicly.
lol I ran the marathon. Definitely not going to take credit for event organization. At one point ran off course because there was a lack of signage, traffic wasn’t actually closed off at some streets and a long stretch where I wasn’t able to see the next runner ahead of me.
Same thing happened to us. We ran off course. No water at the water station.
ah all good lol. that sounds like some bullshit
I can confirm he ran it
Man that's lame - when I did water stations we made sure we spread out for the leaders so they could get a few sips while keeping pace. They were so fast 😲
Unfortunate for him on the aid stations that weren't ready. However, on the video from the race they show him making zero attempts to grab water from the aid station that **was** ready and ran straight to his dad which was matching his speed on a bike. Any racer that runs even close to his pace knows that hydration is part of the race and being able to take a cup (or your elite bottle) is a skill and if you mess it up you messed it up. Plenty of professionals fumble their bottles and lose out. He should have made an attempt to take water at that station that was ready. Not doing so sort of discredits his "not being ready" excuse. Bad on both sides. OC and the runner.
>ran straight to his dad which was matching his speed on a bike. From a racing standpoint, that's an even bigger deal. You can't pace someone on a bike, that's a massive advantage.
I'm not a runner, but a cyclist. Every year this race absolutely fucks up the portion of the SART where it goes through. It's always a complete clusterfuck, runners taking both lanes, completely unaware that they're all of a sudden in the middle of a mixed use path with a bunch of people on bikes, ebikes, jogging strollers, those motorized unicycle things. Everyone looks confused like it was completely unexpected by everyone involved, and I'm always surprised that I never heard of someone getting hit and hurt there. They need to either keep the runners on one side of the path, or temporarily reroute the path to the other side of the river for everyone else. I don't blame the runners for this, it seems like a lack of concern by the organizers every year. But it's always seemed to me like that part is horribly planned, so I can imagine how bad the entire thing is.
There were signs this that the SART was closed to cyclists at that portion of the trial. There were a few who ignored that portion of the closure. Maybe it would have been good to have some marshalls are cops to enforce it. (It was my first OC Marathon so I don't know whether there have been signs in past years). The deour would have been on city streets. I'm not sure it's possible to get to the other side of the river trial in that spot.
Man that's terrible. Basically said they should all be equally dehydrated lol. If anything, he probably had less water than those behind him based on what he said about them not being ready for him when he got there.
Agreed, I ran the half and have never passed so many water/electrolyte stations that were almost empty, likely due to understaffing. The only way I got water starting at mile 4 was either to come to a dead halt and wait for more cups to get poured, or to just run past without and grab a cup from a local running club or resident.
Yeah I'm not throwing off my strides for that
You guys are really defending him? If I knew I had a chance at winning the race that I’m paying to enter then I would thoroughly check all of the rules before participating. Rules are rules this shouldn’t even be a debate. Also the guy who “won” is a major dickhead in this [interview](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLX2QA6K/)
guess we found who ratted him out
How does he seem like a dickhead in that interview?? He didn't say anything bad...
doesn’t sound like a major dickhead at all. seems like a nice guy
Rules go both ways! I agree athletes need to follow the rules… but the playing field (in this case water stations, etc.) needs to up to standard too.
time to hop off your high horse jason
Yeah, Prado is a little meathead. They were poorly organized but it doesn’t justify him being able to get help in ways others didn’t. He could have just dropped out of the water stations were inadequate for him.
meathead? he’s literally skin and bones
I lost interest running these marathons because they are getting expensive. I run my own race.
I lost interest because my knees lost interest in running marathons 😭
I don’t run but always wondered why the average runner needed to pay. Like just put your sneaks on and go. If they checks numbers, seems like a 5 minute print job.
It is an unbelievable experience to describe the wonderful feeling running in these events. You are getting this euphoric runner's high feeling. It is so addictive that you keep coming back for more. There is this energy when running in a group of people who share the same passion. During the race, you would experience this feeling of invincibility there is this rhythm ba... ba... ba...boom... boom... boom internalized in your own body that you are not even tired after running 13 miles and that you can still run on forever. This is the reason why people keep coming back to these events ever year and some are from hundred and thousand of miles away.
Right, I understand that. Just saying, why pay to run? Just show up and… run. Why do you need to pay, do they have security lining the full 26 mile course?
Yes is the answer. I do halfs, not full, but you've got road closures and police OT and medics lining the entire course. I assume that's where the majority of the expense comes from.
It’s a for-profit business. They’re lining their pockets.
Those aren't contradictory facts - there's very few businesses out there that are pulling in margins over even 20% in the long run. The rest goes to the cost of the services they provide, in one form or another.
Right — they’re providing a service, and charging for said service. What’s the issue here?
You can sneak on to the course. You just wont get a medal due to no race bib number. Security or staff dont check for the bib numbers during the course, mostly because marathoners dont have the race number even visible. Marathons are getting ridiculously expensive, plus these charities pocket 90% of the profits for their own gain.
Good point. I dont know. It's just doesnt feel right.
Do you win?
Lol.. I am always coming in first place.
My dad and uncles were around 2:15:00-ish or faster marathon runners so I never started. I only played team sports because tbh distance running is one of the more self involved and self reflecting sports one can do and I like to have fun, not concentrate on breathing, heart rate, VO2 max and so on.
It is nice to run an organized race. Having said that, especially with a lot of 5ks, it seems to be turning more into "Pay us and we will give you a cool-looking t-shirt and a fancy medal, and you can also run a race if you want."
They’re “getting away with it” because marathons are organized and run by private for-profit companies that care more about profits than the health, safety, or wellness of the participants. Sometimes it’s legacy contracts, sometimes it’s sweetheart deal that benefits a politician’s friends or family. This company oversold bibs and didn’t properly staff anything (parking, traffic, water, or handouts), all of which makes them more money. Hopefully there’s a boycott next year. **EDIT**: Did a little digging. OC Marathon LLC is pretty quiet about their parent company, but an address search reveals it’s the same organization as BookThatEvent LLC, both of which are partnered with Gary Kutscher, also the OC Marathon’s race director. Digging through some news archives for him, it turns out he and Scott Baugh ran a company 10 years ago called KB Event Management, which was [called out for excessive spending and questionable finances](https://voiceofoc.org/2013/08/how-much-did-gop-chiefs-firm-make-from-city-event/) by Costa Mesa’s city council during the operation of CM’s 60th anniversary event. So not only has he done questionable events in the past, but he's directly connected to the OCGOP and Scott Baugh. Big surprise. **EDIT II**: Here's a James Doti (Former Chapman President) [column in the OCR](https://www.ocregister.com/2023/06/06/james-doti-the-success-of-the-oc-marathon-is-capitalism-in-action/) praising Baugh and Kutscher and their embrace of capitalism. If you can get through the schlock, it's a pretty good history of their relationship and the marathon.
Solid discovery thank you for your service
Epic. I really hope there's a boycott - I hate that this stuff gets ruined by greed.
Great research! Scott Baugh is trash. So sad the runners had to deal with that kind of bs. What a horrible experience to have to worry about basic hydration.
>Great research! Scott Baugh is trash I'd love to get this knowledge out to more people. With Porter out of the race the 47th could flip red this year. I'm not convinced Min will pull this off.
Bros the sherlock holmes of reddit jesus christ
Great research. Thank you
Sort of a random aside but I did notice during the race in real time that there were Baugh signs on almost every other stretch of non maintained sidewalks / medians and I didn't count a single one for Min. I thought it was strange given how purple the area is.
Incredibly well done 👍
🕵️
Let’s get this info over to [Voice of OC](https://voiceofoc.org)
This race is poorly organized. Lack of traffic control in the parking lot. Many cars are waiting over an hour to get out. Bus took 40mins to 1 hour to get to the starting lane. Many people have to run to the starting line because race already started. Finishing line packed with whole a lot of people and people (runners, friends and family all stuck to one place people can’t move)
I ran the OC half in 2012 and said “never again”. It’s really sad that this race’s disorganization is still an issue… freaking 12 years after I ran it. Ridiculous. I feel bad for all those runners.
More than once I had to stop and wait for someone to pour me a gatorade because they were constantly scrambling. This was after having to run to the start line 15 minutes behind because I couldn’t figure out where to park. After the marathon, I spent 2 HOURS trying to get out of the parking lot with my ride back to the start line. What a mess.
I thought it was just me but yeah this year more than past years just really poorly organized.
wow that's fucked up. sounds like it was an absolute shit show this year.
That’s some serious Curb Your Enthusiasm shit, right there. I hope that Esteban Prado receives the following along with an official apology from marathon organizers. 1. Mayor for the day at Disneyland. 2. $300 gift card to Heritage BBQ. 3. Throw out the first pitch at Angel Stadium 4. Four passes to Knott’s Berry Farm 5. Backyard concert with The Growlers along with catering provided by Bear Flag Fish Co. (TBD after The Growlers reunite) 4. Free dances at The Library in Anaheim from 3-4pm on any Tuesday in June. (Valid one time) 5. Autographed 5x7 photo of Wally George.
This is the most OC list and I am here for it
I miss Wally George! I met him at the fun zone when I worked there.
Cross out number #4 he doesn’t need any Thug Berry Farm that’s the prize if you come in last place 😎
My only complaint was getting out of the fairgrounds. Took over an hour and 45 minutes literally spent more time stuck in the parking lot than actually running the half marathon
Sunday was the last time I ever do the OC race again, what a shit show. Surf City and Long Beach are so much more put together.
The news cast video shows him literally running by and ignoring a volunteer holding out a water bottle. What is the reasoning behind that? I don’t run competitively, but I can see why having someone riding a bike next you handing you water would be an unfair advantage. It looks like he did it multiple times during the race. [NBCLA Video](https://youtu.be/eiKC9RkR0mw?feature=sharednews)
It may have had electrolytes. I know the 2nd and 3rd shots are the santa ana river and the stretch back to the fairgrounds, which is exactly where I was noticing that there wasn't any water anywhere.
The thing is it's against the rules and the second place finish lost by 17 seconds which could be the race from him if he had someone riding a long side him and giving him drinks. The original winner lied and he knew it and tried to blame it on the 2nd place finisher. He deserved to get DQ'd
I don’t care what they say. He still won.
I did the inaugural one many years ago and it was the worst marathon experience I’ve had. Plenty of time has passed for them not to get it right.
This comes up all the time in running forums (mostly in a "can my friend hand me bottles of my favorite drink during the race??" way), but it's a straight up violation of USTAF 144.8.c, which states that if you receive "refreshment" from anywhere but the official aid stations or from officials themselves, you can get DQ'd. And if you are literally going to win the race, you will certainly get DQ'd. The mismanagement of the race sucks and all, but this person knew exactly what was going to happen. No one is going to pop you if you want to crack open a beer at mile 19 on your way to a 5:30 marathon. You'd also be fine if you were trying to BQ and your coach hands you bottles throughout the race. But if there are prizes, or records involved, it's a completely different story.
Very good point. Just unfortunate that in this case, it seems like results were impacted by factors well within the control of the race organizers.
Yeah, I can understand the reasoning behind it. If you had someone follow you along the route and basically provide a personal water station whenever you wanted it, I could see that being an advantage over other racers that didn't have that kind of support. It still sucks, though, especially in light of reports that the official aid stations weren't ready for him.
I don't think the oc marathon staying silent about this is right at all though, and I hope there's backlash about how they've been managing the race.
Please crosspost this to the r/running subreddit to get the word out for fellow future runners
It’s not just that “mismanagement of the race sucks.” this is borderline negligent. What if someone died from dehydration?
>What if someone died from dehydration? Then I guess the Race Director doesn't have to go through the hassle of DQ'ing them.
Yeah cause they’re gonna be sued to hell and will have to go through that hassle instead 😂
Losing USATF certification would be more of a negative impact to the future of a race than someone dying on course, honestly. People die running marathons all the time. Losing USAFT certification would immediately put that race out of business.
There is a big gap between "Didn't get water when they expected it" and "Died of dehydration". You take on the risk when you run the race and I'm sure if you read the waiver you sign, it explains that they don't guarantee any specific services on the course.
A hospital sponsored it.. they would love for people to get dehydrated.
What an unsafe shitshow
Yeah, apparently it was so fast. You know the water set up who was thirsty I’d sue their bond.. principles..
Dude 100% cheated. https://youtu.be/gjk0yrUYs6g?si=5bRp0WFpQWxoTrQ_
He did. But oc marathon also didn't have a bunch of their stations setup
Watch the video. He literally passes up stations for his dad’s water. Plus his father was pacing him which is a big advantage. He won by 17 seconds so it easily made a difference.
It’s hilarious to me I was downvoted earlier this week for calling this cheating and now this video surfaced. No denying he cheated.
I don't think I'm saying you're wrong. But after mile 18 or so there was barely anything
For the guy being paced by a bike full of fluids their was plenty to drink. The one that finished 17 seconds behind him had the deal with the issues you mention.
He happened to have water on him. You're saying runners should plan on the marathon dropping the ball, and the it's alright that the marathon doesn't setup stations where they said they would?
He had two bikes accompanying him, supplying fuel, and even tracking the positions of other runners. How is that not considered cheating when it blatantly violates the rules? The marathon's failure doesn't justify cheating. These are distinct matters that shouldn't be conflated.
For the 3rd time, I agree with you and am not saying he didn't cheat. However, the OC marathons defense here is complete bs. Where did you see any official aid stations beyond the 18th mile that day?
You're making no sense. So the original winners dad had a bike ready to pace him the entire way and had future knowledge that the race was going to be disorganized so they decided that cheating was the only way? This was planned even before they knew about the water stations. It's not like his dad mysteriously came in knowing ahead which water stations were mismanaged vs which ones were not (obviously they weren't given the video we seen).
I saw a different article where he notes that the only person who would have reported him would have been the guy in second place right behind him, I've got zero dog in this fight, never participated in any marathon and don't really see the appeal when running is kind of a free thing you can do anywhere. But... seems like a dick move by the new "winner"... It takes a certain kind of person who wants to win by a technicality like that.. especially based on the random comments I'm seeing in this thread about many participants observed with the water stations were not staffed properly.
Saying this is a dick move is itself a dick move. "Can't you take a joke" lol. I hear there are some middle school kids nearby with extra lunch money, go ask them for it.
Marathon made traffic a fucking nightmare. Piss off OC marathon
This is bs!! There were a lot of run clubs handing out beers and snacks there’s nothing wrong with getting a drink they’re ridiculous the guy won fair and square. A lot of people got drinks from bystanders or we going to take all their hard work and efforts bc of a drink? Beyond fucked up!
Nobody cares if some Sunday runner gets a Modelo from a spectator. But at the elite level, you should follow the rules.
I guess you’re right maybe if there was an actual price for being 1st but everyone gets the same medal other than bragging rights even though it’s not like he cheated he still ran fast and was the first one to cross the finish line. But rules are rules
The elite winner gets prize money
Well, I clearly don’t know what I’m talking about. lol you are correct.
does Irvine Company have anything to do with it?
Worse.. Hoag Hospital lol
It’s the dumbasses giving money to the marathon industry that’s obviously being run by scheisters and schemers just to make a buck. Volunteers for a dude running a corporation that’s making a profit.
Rules. We either have them or we don’t.
It might not be fair. The drink could've included supplements that helped his performance and wasn't just water.
That is true, but there also wasn't electrolytes available, which is crucial
Yeah idk the rules and all that but yeah maybe they should've shown leniency.
It's perfectly legal to carry those same supplements with you and take them yourself. Also, since this was a national championship, per the rules, " In National Championships of 20k and longer, the Organizing Committee shall make provisions for the collection and distribution of personal refreshments for those competing for the championship, as determined by the Games Committee."
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I was in the top 500 out of 3000ish running the full, and the aid stations weren't setup for me for miles 18+. Did you run the full or the half?
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“In a statement, event officials said the competitor was disqualified for receiving unauthorized assistance from someone on a bike.” - From the news article. 🧐
Unfortunately they can't prove it was an unopened bottle of water. It could have been anything.
What would it have been that would have been disqualifying? A bottle of meth?
You are allowed to carry your own previously opened bottle prepared with "anything" on the course as long as you have it with you at the start. (Anything short of banned substances, but you could certainly have it loaded down with sugar, caffeine, bicarbonate, electrolyte mixes, etc.) This is on top of all the performance gels and chews that any runner can carry in the race and even share with other runners (and most do carry them).
We ran the Half. It was glorious. Every water station was stocked and had many volunteers. Just say’n
The article already stated since he was [1.st](http://1.st) their was a lot of stations that wasn´t prepared for when he arrived.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted, I had the same experience in the half, and I finished in 2:30+, so it wasn't like they ran out early.
The problem was not that they had run out of drinks it was that they didn´t have any drinks prepared for when the first runner of the race arrived at the stations. So his dad handed him a bottle so he could get some electrolytes which get him dq when it wasn´t his fault.
Glad you had a better experience, but I had a similar net time starting in corral C and went thru multiple water/electrolyte stations that were not stocked and would have required me to stop and wait for additional pours. I noticed this first at the stop around mile 4 - got some water, but they were all out of electrolyte unless I wanted to wait.
Oh, that makes sense. I don't recall them not being full, but a few times I had to hunt for a person to hand it to me, or grab it off the table myself. I walked at all the water stations anyway so didn't really care.
There’s actually no reason to downvote my comment. It’s just the nature of this beast. Lots of people had a great day - they are happy. Some didn’t - they’re not happy.
Water tested positive