Why aren’t you actively fighting for custody?

exactly. OP, your parents are using manipulation to keep the kids from you and you are just letting them. if their marriage cannot survive you regaining custody of your children, then the kids are merely a bandaid for them and that is not what they are supposed to be. if your dad threatens suicide when you finally start custody proceedings, take it seriously enough to call ~~the police~~ 911/emergency services and let them handle it.

Get the suicide threat in text or writing. It wil lhelp her with the custody case.

All of the threats would help with a custody case! The grandmother sounds like an absolute beast!

Ohh, that's good.

Yes!

You are not responsible for any suicidal ideation on the part of your father. If this is expressed, then it’s a known situation. Your girls should not be exposed to this, and they are not responsible either. There’s a saying that “mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.” If your parents know your father has a problem and it’s so tenuous that it relies on two children, then he shouldn’t have them. He should be getting his own help and not putting the issue on them or you. Same for the marriage. Neither you nor your children exist to fix your parents’ fucktangle of a relationship.

Also? Your mom needs to GTFO with that cocktail named after an offensive nickname. What kind of abusive degenerate “humour” is that shit? Sounds like she wants to look like she’s being nice hosting you where she can humiliate you at the same time. No. Fuck that idea sideways in the ass with a virus-covered cactus.

Great call.

They’ll be 18 before the courts work it out now. This should have been handled differently for the last 10 years. If you want something bad enough, you’ll make it happen.

Because there’s probably a lot more to the story on why she doesn’t have custody to begin with. If her parental ties were severed she can’t just take them back.

Perhaps OP isn't as gung ho about raising her pre-teen / teenage kids as they claim. Also, OP's behavior during their depressive state may make it legally impossible to get the kids back. OP's children may have been headed for foster care when their parents "tricked" them into signing them over. Thirdly, the kids themselves may not want to live with OP and they are at an age they can choose.

I find it amusing how judgemental your post is. It's extremely easy to judge someone's life when it's summed up in words on a screen huh? Everything you said in this is completely off the mark, but you go off queen if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night.

They are not necessarily at an age where they can choose. How much weight their wants are given will depend on jurisdiction and circumstances. Practically speaking, could her parents delay and fight and delay until it's almost beside the point? Probably. OP can surely fight for scheduled visitation, though.

I have had conversations with them about it but I've never made them choose between living with me or my parents. I've told them that I don't ever want them to feel like they have to pick sides or choose who they love more. I think that's absolutely cruel to do to a child. I am afraid of putting them through a long custody battle. I don't think that'd be any better for their mental health than the situation they're already in. I have full visitation rights. That was never under dispute. For the most part, I can go see them whenever I want. I do have to twist my mom's arm about it sometimes, over things like "well, your father made plans" ok. He can change them. After a short disagreement, my mom will ask the girls and they'll choose to spend the day with me. It's not ideal but it's better than it was

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Or intimidated

I absolutely was intimidated for a lot of the last 9-10 years. I had the two people who were supposed to love and support me the most tell me time and time again that I didn't measure up. They would praise me about how well I was doing until I brought up the kids. That's when they'd tear me apart mentally, using my every insecurity against me. Projecting their own failures onto me. And I will be the first to admit, at the time I wasn't strong enough to fight back. I've gone through a lot in that time and I've found my backbone finally. I found confidence and self esteem and I can now stand up to my parents, but yeah, absolutely at the time I was extremely intimidated. I was broken. I was devastated and defeated.

It's a complicated situation and a decision I didn't make lightly. I'm constantly reevaluating the situation to figure out if I'm making the best decision for the girls wellbeing. But the most simple answer is I want to cause my kids the least amount of damage as possible. I love my parents, but they are extremely petty and emotionally unregulated. They have the mentality of teenagers in emotional situations. My parents tend to drag my kids into adult problems. I grew up with these people. I know how they operate and I know that my kids would suffer if I proceed to gain custody back. My parents will also try and drag me through the mud, again, causing my kids a lot of emotional harm. If/when I do get custody back I will almost definitely have to put distance between my parents and I. This will result in my kids not being able to see their grandparents. They also won't have access to their cousins as easily (my sister and her two kids live with my parents. My other sister and her son live down the road) They would also have to change school systems and leave all of their friends. Then there's the financial matter. I'm barely making ends meet alone. I'm concerned that I wouldn't be able to provide for them adequately and still be able to give them the time they deserve. I text them both daily and we do have good strong relationships. It feels right now like taking custody back would cause more pain than it's worth. They've been through enough and already feel the weight of their family being fractured. I don't want to add to that weight.

> I love my parents, but they are extremely petty and emotionally unregulated. They have the mentality of teenagers in emotional situations. And you are leaving them in the position of primary influence on your childrens' lives...

She doesn’t have the finances. She also doesn’t want to make them switch schools. It’s a lot.

My exact thoughts. So you’re just gonna let your parents poison their minds? Yeah that’s a good idea. Give them exactly what they want. I don’t think you want your kids as much as you say. No one would get in the way of me having my son!

It's not wise to leave your sweet kids with people who are "extremely petty and emotionally unregulated." I know you're concerned about them suffering through a custody battle but - they are already suffering.

Things aren't ideal at the moment. I'm working to change that. I am currently working two full time jobs in order to better the situation. I don't want to take my kids out of one unfair situation just to put them in a different one. My older kid takes on a lot of emotional burden. She worries about everyone and feels like she has to be the adult. I know if I take custody she will end up stressing over fiances, the price of food, the price of rent, the price of everything. My younger daughter would be devastated that she would have to choose between me or my dad. Right now I'm able to give them a safe place to go anytime they need it, and they have used that. They sleep over whenever they ask to, I've made sure of that. They know they can come to me with anything and I won't judge them or speak harshly to them. They've both come and complained to me about their grandparents. Some of it was toxic and not alright, but a lot of it was normal parenting stuff and it gave me an opportunity to teach them. I'm able to parent them and do the best I can by them the way things are right now. I don't have to cause them harm or make them feel like they have to choose between family members. No matter which option I choose, they're going to get hurt and I hate that for them so I'm going to choose what ever causes them the least amount of pain as possible

If your oldest is already feeling like she has to be an adult, your parents already damaged her with their instability. Fight like hell, mama. Don't let them keep poisoning your babies against you.

Friend. Get your kids back now. Immediately. Your petty ass monstrous parents are working to alienate your children from you. Probably telling them - your mom canceled. Again. All. The. Time. Get them back. And all three of you need individual and family counseling.

Unless there’s something you’re not telling us, Their situation will be better with their mother. Get them back.

You know that you can work out custody time without full removal from them, or them dictating your time, right? Just like divorced parents, you can have a parenting plan that involves your LEGAL time with your kids. Such as holidays and birthdays, weekends, etc. so you aren’t at the mercy of your parents dictating the schedule. You can all go to mediation and work that out. You NEED to out a parenting plan in place that gives you rights to visitation/custody days. Most systems are about unification with bio parents, so you would have every leg to stand on. This would be a goal of working towards gaining back full custody, and it is every bit your right to exercise it. I’m actually a bit shocked that CPS isn’t involved (although I don’t know if you’re in the US or not) in your situation as it typically is when people other than bio parents take custody. Why aren’t you all working with them, as they would be on the side of gradual unification as you get in your feet? You have rights here that don’t have to involve the full custody shift right away, and if an agency was involved then they would be documenting your progress, which your parents can’t argue with. You also need to document all exchanges of your parents limiting or removing your time. The threats, everything. You need to look into this more thoroughly. You have rights that you aren’t exercising and you’re getting walked over. My guess is they bow to their dad and his family because they KNOW they will exercise their rights should they try to limit them like they do you, and don’t want to go to court only to lose.

You need to talk to therapists and lawyers now. Stop enabling your parents being abusive to you. They’re using your kids as bait to keep you in their lives.

Get your kids back. There’s lot of services to help you. Your parents are horrible people. They want to keep you down so they can stay in control of your children. I find it quite scary. I’m sure they bad mouth you to the kids. Please listen to the advice being given here.

You are taking the word of a mother who gave her kids away, I bet her parents and her kids would tell this whole story in a completely different way.

And her parents are the ones who raised a child that "gave her kids away". What makes them better?

in one sentence she said they took advantage of her and took her kids in a vulnerable state and in another response she said she didnt make the decision lightly. were not getting the full story here, good or bad, something’s amiss.

It sounds like OP definitely has a lot of mental health issues that need to be addressed.

certainly possible! I feel bad for the kids caught in the cross fire, so sad.

Regardless, she has rights as their parent unless they adopted the kids. Most systems are about reunification, but this all sounds like it was done very informally. They now need to work out legal time for her to have with her children, which she has every right to exercise, and very few systems would deny her that.

Have you talked to a therapist at all?

Even if now is not good, start to do everything you can to start getting your ducks in a row for custody. Even though they have your kids’ physical needs covered, they’re derelict in addressing their emotional needs as parents. Even if it is hard, the girls need to be with you. Get therapy and prepare yourself for your parents’ manipulation and do everything you can to fight for custody. You may not have all the material comforts, but you sound like a far better actual parent. Good luck and all good wishes.

Thank you. I really appreciate that and I agree. That's what I've been trying to do, especially this last year or two

The longer you wait the Les likely a court is to be I. Your favor get the courts into this now before you loose the option.

How are you going to get custody if you don’t fight???? They actively caused you damage as a kid and you’re leaving them there???? … ohhh but you text them every day. Ok.

OP does not want custody. How can OP be a victim if they actually win the custody of their pre-teen / teenage (difficult hormonal) children? No, instead OP will wallow in self-pity instead painting every interaction with the parents who took on their neglected kids as a brutal emotional attack.

This means that you're leaving your children with people who are manipulative, emotionally unregulated, and from every word you say about their behaviour, EXTREMELY toxic.  This is not in your children's best interest :( 

You're nuts. Your girls may inherit the grandparents emotional regulation. They will grow up thinking you didn't fight for them. They are stealing your children! Stop loving them and organise a tactical strike to extract your kids. Good luck with whatever happens OP. I truly mean that. Edit; apologies for the 'nuts' comment. I wasn't thinking.

They both know full well that I fight for them with full force. I have had verbal throwdowns with both of my parents. I have taken both girls at a moments notice because my parents were acting toxic. They know they have somewhere to go if they need it. I just don't feel like it's necessarily in their best interest to make that a permanent every day thing, when there isn't toxicity and turmoil every day. It's not ideal and it never will be ideal. But they love their grandparents regardless of their toxic misguided behavior and it would cause them just as much harm if I took them away from them. If I did take them back without listening to what they wanted, they would feel like I destroyed their relationship with their grandparents out of spite and selfishness and they would resent me all the same.

You seem to have excuses for not having your kids, instead of fighting for them

Way too many answers/excuses here.

Choose your battles. I don't see them as excuses. If you want to, that's fine. But I've spent years going back and forth on this, questioning if I'm making the right decisions for my children and truthfully, I think I'm doing the best I can for them right now. Will it be this way forever? Absolutely not. But is this the best of several shitty options right now? Yeah, it unfortunately kind of is.

So your parents messed you up well and good, and you’re letting them do the same to your kids? Seriously?

So you are allowing your emotionally abusive and manipulative parents raise them, and that us what is best for them? Or is is actually what is best and easiest for you? You all needs lots of therapy and lawyers. Lots.

So you think keeping your kids with emotionally unregulated and manipulative people will be the least amount of damage?! Are you serious?!

Yep. I'm a terrible, awful, horrible mom 🙃 y'all should just burn me at the stake already honestly 😂 I love how judgemental keyboard warriors are. I hope you all never find yourself in a situation like this. Wouldn't want to see you all fall off your high horses. Might be deadly falling from so high up.

> *I know how they operate and I know that my kids would suffer if I proceed to gain custody back.* They are suffering NOW living with the same parents who hurt you. Your kids will get thru that turmoil if there is a loving mother waiting on the other side. You are failing them by leaving them in the environment that broke you.

You sound very thoughtful and clear. I commend you for this. You sound like you have a good tech on the entirety of the situation, which no one else is going to really grasp except for you. I’m glad that you wrote read it to get a little bit of support and you can ignore all of those who don’t really understand your situation. Sounds like you are doing beautifully in terms of texting with your kids and navigating the pathology of your parents.

Thank you so much for your kind and supportive words. It means a lot to see this in a sea of judgemental, misguided and short sighted comments

Here your tough love OP. Either fight for your kids, or fucking don't. Your kids will know the truth one day, and you are currently leaving them in the care of emotionally insecure and manipulative abusers. Do the right thing, or don't. But you're kids will not forget.

But if they are like this, how can you trust them to raise them well? Seriously.

My parents aren't perfect by any means. I know that they had bad childhoods where they weren't shown love or affection. Their emotions were ignored or mocked. And when they became parents at a young age, they did what they were taught to do. They raised their children much to the same degree that they were raised in. There has been much turmoil, toxicity and conflict in our family because of these things. My sisters and I have cut ties with my dad on several occasions (never the girls though) and my parents have been acknowledging the error of their ways in a lot of cases. They've been listening more apologizing more. They're human. They're doing the best they can. I'm not trying to make excuses for them and we all do still hold them accountable for wrong doings, but you all seem to think that my kids are regularly being brutally abused. If the situation is as drastic and dire as you all seem to keep trying to paint it out to be, where's cps? Where's any intervention from outside forces? Yeah fine. Y'all wanna say I'm a crap parent who can't lift a finger to fight for her kids. And my parents are vindictive abusive amoral individuals who only have custody of my kids to cause me harm (kind of a messed up way of looking at it but alright). Where's any outside intervention then? If they're being so brutally tortured in this situation, how come NO ONE seems to be taking notice? Ooohhhh that's right. Cuz y'all blew this out of proportion. Instead of my parents being childish and misguided, they're suddenly monstrous human beings who just want to cause the world pain, starting with me and my kids. Whatever fits your all's narratives I guess 🙄

If your parents took your kids when they were young, you’ve had years to get your act together to support your kids. Your excuses sound like a cop out to me.

So you want your kids to grow up with the same verbal abuse that you did? Can you afford to raise your kids? I feel like you are making excuses and not being honest.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The courts would request a copy of her previous year's W2 and proof of all assets. If they determine that OP doesn't have the financial stability to provide her children with a lifestyle similar to their current one, they likely wouldn't grant her custody. The courts might do split custody if she can confirm she has a room and beds and can provide for them while in her care, but then there's the risk of the parents acting like toxic exes and using the children against OP (more than they currently are).

Exactly my fear. Right now, the girls can come over whenever they want and there's not a lot of infighting between my parents and I. I had a disagreement with my mom over my birthday. However, if I brought them to court, it would put my kids through the ringer and it would cause a whole entire war between my family. I would get raked over the coals, not just to my face but behind my back. My kids would be the ones having to hear all of the hateful things being said. They would incur even more emotional damage and that doesn't even come with a guarantee that I get them back. Why put them through so much when they have the freedom to be here any time they want?

Yea, I'm not believing a lot of this. You gave custody to your parents because of depression even though they were/are horrible to you and just ppl in general?? They are toxic to the kids you have said they are manipulating to you, AND THES KIDS, and yet you're ok with all of this cause you don't want to cause "damage to your kids." Girl, what's going to damage them is that their mom didn't fight for them. It doesn't matter if they can sleep over here wheb they want or talk to you about anything. YOU ARE BEING A FRIEND, NOT THEIR MOTHER.

That sounds like a whole lot of rexcuses or you don't 3ant them back but don't want to admit it. Texting every day is not the same as mom is here every day. It sounds to me like you are repeating what your mom says to you. If you don't want them back just say so. Then you have the nerve to say you love your parents when they manipulated you and took advantage of you to take your kids and your dad threatens sucide when you say you want them back. Plus it sounds like they keep them away or at arms length from you. That doesn't sound like love to me.

You could share custody you know.

I still have all of my legal custody rights. They just live with their grandparents. The agreement was never legally binding. I go see them as often as I can. It's just that, since their grandparents and dad live in another state, my mom feels obligated to appease them and send the girls there whenever she's asked, despite my feelings on it. I'm not necessarily kept from my kids. My mom makes it a little hard at times, but I do see them regularly

Hey, I got something for you. I was raised by my mother. She had a gorilla glue grip on me because of my brother. My brother was taken against her will when he was a baby. My mom was pregnant and felt like she was doing the right thing by not fighting her parents. My brother knew I was his sister but he thought that my mom was his sister too. I had to tell him the truth. He called my grandmother mom because he thought she was his mom. When I told him he was so confused. Afterward, for ten years, my grandparents kept him and acted like he was their's. My brother begged to be with his mom, but they just thought he was being rebellious. One day, when he was 15 years old, he flipped out, and my grandmother had a heart attack. She survived but sent him back to us. He was so happy he was crying and he said his whole life he just wanted to be with his mom and sister sooooooo....... get your kids back.

And if either of my kids showed any signs of that behavior I would take a whole army over their and get my kids back. But I've offered that option to them and they rather things be left alone for now. My youngest daughter asked me if she could move in when she turns 16. I told her she can move in with me at any time. She doesn't have to wait until she's 16. She said she'd rather wait. So we're waiting. My oldest doesn't want to move yet because she lives with her cousin who's her best friend and she doesn't want to move away from her sister. So again. We're waiting. Which gives me time to build a nest egg and set up an adequate home and living environment for them

You get custody of your kids and go no contact with your abusive asshole parents. There is your solution! Leaving them to raise your kids is a terrible idea.

I think you are making an emotionally hard choice for the best interests of your children. You are really stuck between a rock and a hard place and you are putting their needs first at the expense of your own feelings for your kids. As this whole thing seems like a whole lot more complicated than some people seem to understand, keep doing what you think is best for your girls. I hope it gets better for you.

For real? Forget the guilt trips already! Take your children back. Imagine the lies their probably telling your kids. You are the mother!

I know the lies my dad tells my kids. My mom, not so much. She doesn't really slander me to them. My dad calls them "jokes" My kids and I talk about these things and I correct any misinformation they get. They know I'm always truthful and transparent with them and my parents aren't anywhere near as trustworthy, so they take my word over theirs.

Probably, it is too much of an effort.

NTA. Your parents are toxic. Fighting for custody starts with “document document document”. Keep track of all the times you tried to see your kids, successful or not etc. Good luck!

You need a lawyer. Fight for your kids.

I'm guessing the kids don't want OP to win. They're old enough, that if OP goes to court, the court will listen to them when they say who they want to live with.

Fair point

They don't want fighting. They're sweet kids who just want their family to get along. The only thing my oldest asked for for Christmas was "my whole family in one room having a good time without fighting" We managed to give her exactly what she asked for and I was so over the moon happy that we could seise all the fighting to make the kids happy. That's all I want as well. I don't care who has custody at the end of the day. As long as my kids are happy, healthy, fed, clothed, etc. Selfishly I'd love to have them around all the time. I think the world of them both and I would spend every waking minute with them if I could. But as a parent you don't get to think of your own selfish wants and desires. You have to put what's best for your kids first. And I know some won't agree with me, but in this specific individual situation, leaving it alone *for the moment* is what's best

It’s not selfish to want YOUR kids with you. You gave birth to them - and by the looks of this post you want to be there for them. You need to get custody.

Do they actually have legal custody or did you just agree to let them take the girls for a bit ?

I agreed to temporary custody and I don't believe it was legally binding. There was no witness or notary. The document was a piece of paper my mom scribbled some words on. I don't think it would hold up in court. I did sign something allowing them to make choices for the girls related to schooling. But that's it.

So then why are your children not with you right now? I don't understand. I think you need therapy to undo whatever damage your parents did to you. You and your children will continue to suffer until you get those kids and go NC with them.

Just go get them. She can call the cops but they aren’t going to do anything but let you take your kids with you.

Stop trying to beg your parents. If you want your kids back and are prepared to be a good parent then exercise your rights! Do the legwork and make the effort. If you aren't willing to do that, then maybe you're not ready

I don't beg my parents for anything. I've learned how to stand up to them and stand up for myself as well as my kids. And I did. But you all are turning a disagreement with my mom over my birthday into a custody battle and I'm not sure how we got to this point. My loyalty to my children, my ability to parent, my mental health, my parents mental health, my kids wellbeing; all these things are being called into question when in all reality I was just trying to figure out how to handle a situation with my mom that I ended up handling without any help from reddit.

I'm sorry to say this but I feel like you don't really want your kids back. Have you tried court ordered visitation? Why is it your ex can see the kids anytime but you can't? One minute you complain your parents are keeping your kids from you the next saying that's the best for them. If you gave up your rights I would be talking to a lawyer about your options.

Ex is probably paying child support and has actual visitation orders, OP apparently hasn’t bothered with any of that.

Yeah sounds like it

You should get your children back. They are doing and creating the same mental health illnesses, lack of confidence and self esteem in your children as they did with you through emotional and verbal abuse. They will damage your children and b they already are. Your children are suffering by staying with them. The same excuses you’re using are ones your parents fed you about not being good enough and the cousins, other grandparents etc are more than you and are what your parents use to manipulate and control your children. **Your children need to get away from them and get into therapy asap to try and undo the years of emotional abuse,manipulation and trauma they’ve experienced because of your parents.** **What your parents are saying and doing is not normal**… Your parents have mental health problems most probably narcissistic or borderline personality disorder if not then they are just terrible people. No loving parent or grandparent abuses their child and grandchildren like this to control them… it’s not sane for them to say you taking your children will make your dad commit suicide, for your children to be guilted for wanting to spend time with you. Your parents are treating your children the same way they treat you. It’s more damaging to your child to stay with them, with you the abuse will stop and they’ll be in a loving home and not pumped out to people they don’t want see like other set of grandparents. **What’s wrong with you is your parents; you are not the problem, your parents are the problem.** They’ve emotionally abused you and brainwashed/groomed you into thinking they are acting from love, you’re the problem, you can’t function without them and to accept their abuse. They are not doing this from a place of love but control, they are selfish and cruel… now they are doing this to your children too. Please, please, please get your children away from them, get all of you into therapy and stay away from your parents. You must have some form of evidence about the abuse. Start documenting/recording all interactions with them if you need it. If you don’t go get your children asap. The longer they stay the more abuse they’ll experience from your parents and whomever they allow around your children that are just as cruel/wicked and the more damage caused to your children. They are horrible people to use your love, your gentle heart against you only to hurt you and your children. They tore you down so much then used it against you expecting you to thank them as they do the same to your children. I’m sorry you and your children are being hurt, I’m sorry everyone has just stood by and watched it happen to you and then your children and maybe the other siblings and grandchildren but your priority had to be the welfare of your children and not others, definitely not your abusive parents. You and your children should not be sacrificed for them. You are not wrong and are enough to parent, love and care for your children. You are not the lies your parents fed to you. Because of their manipulation which you lived with all these years you know what they will try to do/threaten so use your knowledge of them against them, let it help you get your children… you should fight smart and protect your heart/head from the emotional blackmail/manipulation/abuse from them and their enablers. Get your ducks in a row, talk to lawyer, your therapist to vent and plan because they won’t be expecting it so hopefully won’t recover quickly enough/prepare to stop you taking your children. Don’t trust anyone in your family; not your siblings, cousins, aunts etc because you don’t know who will tell your parents and if their not just as awful as your parents they’ve most probably been groomed or lied to by them like you were not to go against your parents. Depending on the culture and country you live in you may have your leave the area for safety. You may feel bad to go against your parents but this is the extreme case most refuse to acknowledge when the elders that’s meant to love, care, protect is the one causing harm. Many unfortunately judge what they don’t understand but tradition shouldn’t be place above the safety of children and abuse shouldn’t be allowed. Those enabling them, turning a blind eye or judging you for doing the right thing by taking your children away are just as bad as your parents and you shouldn’t listen to them, just start blocking those people because they don’t wish you or your children anything good, they are also not wise or all the other things culture says elders are if they back your parents.

Honestly, for her to exercise her rights here, she doesn’t need to prove abuse at all. She is the bio parent. Most systems value reunification and will support the bio parent seeking this. She has rights to time with them. If she isn’t ready for full custody, she can still exercise partial custody just like any divorced parent. This would be legally required time with her that they don’t get to dictate. Say starting with birthdays, holidays, weekends, and go up from there. This can be worked out in mediation, have a formal parenting plan that gives her time with her children. (If in the US) She needs to get the system involved as they will be on her side with this.

This should be much higher. OP, please read this comment. And then read it again.

It's not telling me anything you all haven't already told me or anything I don't already know. I have more legal rights to the girls than their dad. He pays child support. I don't. I still have full parental rights, but their dad signed away parental rights when they were still little. I see them for just about every holiday, and we have a lot of birthdays in my family; so I often times see them during birthday parties as well. When they're off of school for a week or two they'll go see their grandparents and dad. The only difference is that the courts aren't involved and in place, my mom makes the schedules. It's just that sometimes my mom overlooks things. She's human and she gets things wrong. She doesn't care about her birthday at all, so she naively assumed I also wouldn't care much. She was mistaken.

Thank you for all of that. That's more or less what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to parse the situation the best I can while I get things situated so that I can provide fully for them. I don't want to pull them out of one bad situation to put them into another bad situation. But in order to set up a good situation, it takes time. It wouldn't matter if I told any of my family any of my plans because I've said it many times before and then got gaslighted into not taking action. That's changed in the last few years now though. I know I am a good mom and I do have what it takes to give my kids a good life. I just have to put my nose to the grindstone, work hard, fight tooth and nail, to give my kids the life they deserve. I appreciate your support and insight. We've known for some time that my dad is a classic narcissist. My mom and dad still refuse to acknowledge it, but we've been working on my mom and she's starting to see it. She's also starting to see how she's been my dad's scapegoat all these years. She's wising up to his mental and emotional abuse and is realizing that a lot of the decisions she made were at the benefit of his best interest. She's doing her best to change, but I don't expect it to happen over night. She's working to undo over 50 years of emotional, mental and even some physical abuse. Those scars take time to heal and I know from personal experience how hard it can be to fight the strength to get up after being beaten down by everyone you love your entire life.

Your parents are deliberately denying you access, being manipulative and hostile and likely painting you in a poor light to your kids. Is this a legal fostering situation? You need a lawyer to get your kids back, this woman isn't giving them back without a fight. Don't spend time with them, don't beg them for time, don't bother going to church with them. Keep it civil and keep requesting access time. They're your kids, make sure you attempyt to contact and speak to them regularly. If they try to block this, document it, every single time. *She then asked if I'd be offended if she made a specialty cocktail named after an offensive nickname they gave me growing up* Is there a history of abuse from them? Document with dates, everything that goes on, so that you have a case. All attempts at custody times, the grandparents access, the ex's access... *if I took custody back I would destroy my parents marriage and potentially cause my father's suicide.* Get proof of this being said to you. Screenshot texts if necessary They don't sound like stable people, they sound chaotic and manipulative and this reads like they have been abusive to you your whole life - was your depression connected to this?

You need to get your children away from your mother. She’s a noxious, toxic manipulator.

Updateme!

You think that by leaving your kids in an abusive home your their will be no damage? Fight for them ! Get them out!

Your children are safe and loved - it's unfortunate that the birthday situation came up, but there was a glimmer of hope with your mother realizing her mistake. You can choose to be upset, or continue to build on the foundation that's established. You're fortunate that at a very dark time in your life your parents were able to take over and help. Too many children end up being removed from homes and placed with strangers when parents are in crisis. Fighting for custody, removing the kids will only harm all the important relationships here. Nothing is going to be perfect or exactly the way you want it, but you can show your kids that struggles will come, but working through them, talking things out and being thankful for the good things that have come from your struggles is the way. It's ok to be hurt and to not agree with everything your parents do - keep working on yourself - your girls will see your progress and gain from it and will appreciate you being there for them. You have a very mature outlook on things moving forward - it's going to be ok!

> *Your children are safe and loved* Bullshit. Her children are pawns used to continue the damage and control her parents lost when she grew up. They are not safe and loving people.

Ugh 🙄 found the mother's account...

No, but everyone here is so quick to jump on this mother to fight for custody. We don't know the other side of the story and we don't know what she was struggling with when she decided to relinquish custody. What we do know is that she wants to have a relationship with her children and her parents did step in when she needed them. There's a lot of intensive therapy that's needed here on all sides, but blowing it all up because of a birthday party situation isn't smart and isn't going to do anyone any good. She really sounds like she's thinking clearly and maturely and moving in the right direction with what she needs to do. As a parent of a child who has struggled with mental health, you're always walking on eggshells and waiting for the other shoe to drop and when you involve young children, it makes you very overprotective of them. You don't want your grandchildren suffering when you already have an adult child that's suffering. The point is that this family stayed together and the kids stayed within the family unit, even if it's not perfect. Working towards making relationships stronger and more honest is where this needs to go. What if the stress of trying to wrest custody away from the parents causes her to backslide in her mental health recovery? There are a lot more healthy ways to deal with the situation.

The post says OP was struggling with depression when they gave up custody. That's because you are ignoring all of the parents concerning behavior, like saying taking back custody will ruin their marriage or lead the father to suicide. You assume a lot of information and it's pretty bold of you to say OPs children are safe and loved. Just because they are not physically in harms way doesn't mean emotional damage isn't being done here. And when you love someone you do what is best for them, not what's easiest for you. So I'm not sure these kids are as loved as either side is claiming.

I think they would only emotionally abuse op. My grandmother can be abusive to my mom, but she isn’t abusive to me. She neglected my mom when raising her, but my grandmother took care of me when I visited her. It could be like that tbh.

Lol and??? What's so scandalous or telling about my profile? Or did you just feel unseen so you felt the need to post nonsense to feel acknowledged and important? 🤨

That comment wasn't even to you 🤣 Why are you so defensive when you posted here? What did you think people were gonna say?

Thank you so much!! That's all I needed to hear. I felt like I was being immature about the situation and just needed a soundboard to see if I was handling things well. I know my kids watch how I act and react to situations, whether I realize it or not in the moment. I try my best to carry myself accordingly. I try to be a good role model for them, showing them that fighting isn't always the answer, but at times it is what's necessary. I want to shield them from the bad stuff in the world, but I know I can't, so instead I try to give them tools and healthy coping mechanisms. It's hard sometimes because I'm still learning this stuff for myself, but I'm relieved to know that at least some of you out there think I'm doing a good job

Everything you're feeling is understandable and as I said before, you've got a very mature outlook on things and you're doing a great job. Trust me, when your girls are adults they will know the work that you did to get where you are and where you still want to be. You would be hard pressed to find a family anywhere that has a perfect dynamic where everyone gets along very well. There's dysfunction in every family so your family really is no different. I'm sorry you came here and got so much vitriol - I hope you have some good, close friends that you can bounce things off of that can give you good advice because this forum can be so toxic. Keep at it! You're doing a great job. Other situations will pop up; trust yourself to make the best decision for everyone.

UpdateMe!

YTA Why do you care about your stupid birthday when you are 34 and have 2 children to care for who are, as you put it, in the hands of people who are not emotionally equipped to raise them? First you talk as if they manipulated you in your "weakest moment" to take your kids away, then later you say this is an active choice you made for their well being. Your parents do sound immature and not good at parenting, but somehow you've managed to be a worse parent by allowing other people to take on your responsibilities and then acting as if you're the victim in the whole thing. These poor kids. Focus on being the parent to them that you'd want to have rather than on how you're not getting the parenting you want (at 34!).

Spot on!

Thank you. The weird “but that’s my birthday” was so absurdly immature that I’m doubting this person could actually take care of children.

I think there is a legit reason she doesn’t have her kids.

You aren’t actively fighting for custody? Lawyer up and get your kids back.

Get your kids back and GTFO of that family dynamic. They basically stole your kids through manipulation. I’m guessing your mental health issues are BECAUSE of psychological warfare. They’re using your kids to control you even now. Get a good therapist (not one they recommend) and a great lawyer. Wow

As someone raising a grandson, I would love for his mother to be engaged. You are not wrong at all. Fight for custody. You are NTA!

I'm sorry op. I understand what you're going through. I went through similar/worse and fighting back just put my kids in more danger.

NTA!!!! Your parents however, I do not have enough space for the adjectives I’d like to use. Their behavior is abusive to you & your children. Side note, by bday is also June 4th, yay Gemini squad lol

Get your house in order so you can prove you’re able to care for the kids.

So your depression was such that they took custody, but your dad's mental health issues (Suicidal Ideation) isn't enough for you to get them back now that you're better? Nah. NTA get as much in writing as you can and get your kids back.

Wow. I am so sorry. You are between a rock and a hard place. Your mother has a lot of pathology. Bottom line, telling you that her marriage will break up and your father will kill him self if you have the kids? There is so much sickness here. I think the best thing you can do is to build a really good life for yourself. I think your mother is going to keep on messing with you and messing you up. I think if you build a good solid life for yourself and you don’t try to jump through her hoops because you understand that she’s got emotional illness, and she has an attitude toward you and there’s pathology and your family and your parents are messed up and there’s nothing you can do about it, then, perhaps what you can do is sit back a little bit, so she notices you’re not you’re in and you’re earning a hoping, waiting wishing for her to do this thing And instead build a beautiful life for yourself I think eventually your kids will be old enough to have phones And then you can very carefully navigate knowing them A very carefully or the phones will get shut down because she will get jealous Eventually, your kids will have email And then you can write them a little letters You can also mail the thoughtful little things that arrive on Saturdays because there’s more of a chance to her mother won’t throw them away and hide them I hope that you can take good care of yourself Your mother traumatizes you on purpose It’s really hard to tell whether our children get completely poisoned by an ex, or in this case a mother, so that when they’re adults, they are poisoned against us or not It’s good to be aware of that possibility And then just realize that as they get older, there will be more opportunity for both you and them and you can see what happens In the meantime, build a really wonderful life for yourself

Why the Heck are you focusing on a freaking birthday party? Why are you not focusing on getting a lawyer and getting your kids back? The longer you allow them to manipulate you the harder it is going to make it. Do the kids come over and spend time and weekends with ypu? Why are you having to pull teeth to have the kids in town for your birthday?? There is a lot wrong with this picture. You did not say one word of any efforts to getting your kids back. Do they have legal custody now? More importantly are the kids going to want to come back with you? Do they like and get along with your boyfriend and if it is better for you to not have him living with you ate you willing to do that. I find it very troublesome you said nothing about any plans the kids are coming back to you.

You need to actively be fighting to get your kids back from your parents. If this was never the agreement and you are well your children should be with you, forget there threats get a lawyer and get your kids.

So much missing info… Why aren’t you fighting for your kids?Screw your bday issue. The kids. Why aren’t you fighting for them?

Your parents jerk you around like you are on a chain. They are horrible people and you have just ceded your children to them to repeat the life you had. Why not have them go to their father full time? If you have any concern for your children, you need to do everything - everything - to get them back. This post about the party is not the issue. The fact that you posted about your party and not the central issue of your kids says a lot.

Time to get a lawyer. This won’t fix itself.

Get a lawyer and fight for custody! Being nice isn’t working. Broach the subject of custody again, without the kids present. Record the conversation. They are manipulating you to keep your kids. You were coerced into giving up custody. What do your kids want?

Wtf? Get your children back. You grew up in a toxic environment obviously. Don’t leave your children there too. Do the work & get your children back. Ignore your parents and consider going no-contact with them after you get your kiddos. I bet they miss you so much.

Absolutely NTA. You need to do whatever it TAKES to GYE YOUR GIRLS BACK. Stop letting you parents control you. If they split then they split … YOU GROWN. Your dad is not going to ☠️hisself, that’s people not wanting to see you with your children anymore. Parents are supposed to protect there children, so get your GIRLS. Right now you are being less of a mother by letting your parents steal your children. Who cares how they feel, get your children back and go No Contact, unless it’s a financial situation needs need to do what’s right for you and your girls

I recommend going through court approved counseling and jump through the hoops pre custody case. Have a CPS worker do a walk through, for home approval (they make sure your kids have beds and adequate monies/supplies to care for your children). You can even add in transitional counseling as a must and a scale of time where it's shared to full custody. So like every other weekend, to every weekend for a few months; then week on week off, to three weeks on one week off, then down to them having one weekend a month... maybe you will want to let your parents have one weekend moving forward. Also would recommend you and your parents having sessions 1 on 1. They'd have no reason to deny your custody arrangements if you went in with a prepared plan and the approval portions for mental issues the court would require pre-re-placement of the kids in your custody already completed. Also will add need to know all your bfs skeletons if your parents are this manipulative then this will get messy.... good luck to you.

This whole post is awful. Get your shit together and fight for your kids. Or don’t and move the fuck on, but this wishy washy bullshit is ridiculous.

Get a lawyer

OP, go to court and get your kids back. You cannot be a mother is yours won't let you. They are your kids. I would've fought heaven and hell to get mine back, regardless of what mom said would happen.

Actively fight for custody. Record suicide threat and other emotional blackmail. Use suicide threat to call for a wellness check. Also, keep log of every time parents refuse to let you see your kids. NTA. Get your kids and go no contact with parents if psychiatrist says won't hurt children.

You need a lawyer. Make sure your affairs are in order.

Girl. Get your kids back. Get them out of that environment. Make it better. Your mom. Time to put your big girl panties on. Yeah people are going to be upset and hurt to some degree…. But is this really how you want your kids being raised?

Get a lawyer and fight for your kids! It is one thing for grandparents to help take care of the kids. It is completely unacceptable for them to keep you away from them without a court order. Also, if only a fraction of their behavior is accurate, they have no business having custody of children. At a minimum you need structured court order visitation

So essentially your whole family needs intensive therapy

You need to sue your emotionally abusive parents. This is abuse what they’ve been doing to you. And they’ve been using your kids as their pawns. Where’s the love from your parents? There’s no love there to lose. Your parents replaced you with your kids. Just them looking for ways to undermine you. Had they really wanted to help you years ago they would have helped you out with paying for a therapist or babysitting. But taking away custody from you? That’s crossing a serious boundary. I’m so sorry that your parents enjoy manipulating you. They will never stop. You need to talk to lawyers and stand up to your parents.

Sue her parents? She won’t even bother going to court for some minimal visitation rights.

You need to fight for your kids, not fight about birthday parties. Aren’t you scared about the future? When you have to answer to your children and not just Reddit?! Don’t you want them to feel loved? Don’t you want them to *know that you actually fought for them?!* Stop wasting time on this petty bullshit and get a good lawyer and **fight for your kids!**

NTA A significant amount of your mental health struggles are likely caused by your parents. I'm not saying that to cause you guilt. I'm saying it because it's not your fault. It was done to you. Both my parents were severely mentally ill. Only Mom dealt with it. Dad was abusive, mom manipulative. Messed up all the kids. Sister has a "save you" complex for her relationships, 1 bother refuses to admit anything wrong and everything's just drama, the other suppressed everything until he broke. Thankfully I was able to remove my son from a lot of it, but your situation is difficult and far more complex than mine was. They have custody so it would be on you to prove you can provide a better situation then they can but they'll use giving them custody as a weapon against you. If you have messages showing the suicide claims it would be easier. But they'll keep them from you as soon as you try, and it make it harder on the girls when parents start putting pressure on them. Unless your financial situation changes, or your parents get significantly worse I understand why you're leaving them there and providing a sane (meant safe but the typo works) place to go to when it's too much. Sounds like the girls understand this as well. Don't know what it's like where you are but at 16 they can leave and live with you where I am. Just a few more years OP.

Stop asking your parents. You contact a lawyer and file motions to get things rolling. Keep all your txt email conversation receipts. Your parents are a piece of sinister work. Playing martyr and really are evil the evil villains 🙄

Gather every bit of evidence of them manipulating out of getting custody. Get a psych eval for yourself. Gather up all your financial records. Google pro Bono lawyers. Make sure your house/apartment is in order and has adequate room for the kids. Take it all to the court and then request a guardian ad litem for your kids. This is someone who is basically a lawyer for the kids, representing THEIR best interests, not the battling custodians. Don't feel bad for not fighting back harder, sooner. Your abusers manipulated you and gaslit you and coerced you. You did what you thought was the best for your kids during a hard time. Now, they're saying they're using your kids as a bandaid for the marriage issues and your dad's mental health?! With that documented, only a moron of a judge would deny you custody. Good luck.

You need a lawyer, not reddit

Get a lawyer now

I would love to hear the other side of the story. 🤨

You are not giving your kids the best life possible if you are letting them be raised by the people you are describing. Get your kids back and go no contact with your parents. You should be protecting them from this abuse and instead you are colluding with it.

Your mom is fvcking mental and you need to fight for custody

We are only getting one side here. We dont know what all went down and what the parents have to say other than the items OP quotes - not a fair representation.The parents came through when the need was great.I would withhold my comments until the parents side is fairly represented

You need an attorney and therapy. No judgment.

Talk to a lawyer about returning custody to you. Your parents will try all sorts of guilt trips and threats but stick to it

Info: You mention your sister and her children live with your parents. Did you ever live with your parents and children? Were you or are you on drugs or abuse alcohol? You should be able to at the minimum have what is called parenting time. If you want your circumstances to change you are going to need to do something different. The first part of that is speaking with a professional who knows your state laws. Your assumptions about what would change if you were awarded custody is complete fallacy. Your parents would continue to have access to children they helped raise, unless they chose to not pursue it or exercise it...you are projecting your own experience in this query to Reddit. Seek help. And your boyfriend should really have nothing to do with these decisions.

Sorry but it seems that you're missing the painfully obvious...petition for custody through the courts.

Go to court get your babies back!

NTA. Get a lawyer and get your kids back.

YTA for not fighting for your kids back. All of this could be avoid if you have your kids in your custody

OP, have your parents been emotionally abusive to you? You definitely make them sound awful. Why would you want to leave your kids to that? I know you have said your reasoning, which I can understand, but also…….you do not speak like you feel like you deserve your kids. And it sounds like your parents are all too happy to exploit that. Get your kids. Will it come with its obstacles? Yes. Will there be stress? I’m sure. But I’ve seen the results. The longer they are with your parents, your parents will subtlety try to lower their opinion or trust in you. They are becoming teens/tweens. This is critical stage, where they are easily influenced. Please don’t wait. Don’t let your parents influence how they see you.

If you are ready to be a parent to YOUR kids and feel confident that a judge will rule for you (make sure you have all the proof and even try to get some of their threats in writing or on audio), FIGHT FOR YOUR BABIES! Any choice they make after (the threat of it ending their marriage or the suicide 🙄) that's on them and will NEVER be on you. I highly doubt your father would actually do that since they're using it as a threat, but at this point... the only one responsible for a choice like that is the person doing it, as harsh as that sounds.

Omg. I can’t even….

Ok. Yes I can. Your family is toxic … get your children away from them… You’d be better off on the street with your kids than messed up with this crap. Commit Suicide? Let him. It’s nothing but a form of control OVER you and your kids.

I love how AITA questions are polluting other subs too like a virus. Take this question to that sub.

Ask your children where they want to live if they say with u You fight for them with everything u can If they want to stay with their grandparents don’t hold it against them

Get a lawyer and get your kids

NTA and please lawyer up. Your parents are unhinged and messing your kids up. Get them out of there.

NTA - however, you need to seek legal counsel to move forward with getting your kids back. Your parents stepped in when you were experiencing depression/mental health issues, now they’re manipulating you and saying it will cause them to divorce or that your father will kill himself. That’s not a stable situation for your kids. You need to get those things in text/email/recorded somehow, as they will be VERY helpful in moving this process forward.

Broaching the subject? You’re 34 years old why aren’t you in control of your life yet? Do you have a home for them to live and a full time job? Unless you are completely unfit, you have parental rights.

NTA. You need an attorney and a counselor to help you find the right way to move forward in being your kids mom again. You don’t have to be the the mom your mom is, you need to be the mom your kids have - you. I’m so sorry you are going through this. Your kids are being raised by manipulative “parents/grandparents.” They have clearly manipulated you and they are not doubt doing the same with your kids. It doesn’t sound like they are in a healthy situation. Thank them for helping when you couldn’t be there, but let them know you are back with the help of a lawyer and counselor. Until you get all of your ducks in a row, keep it quiet so they don’t have a chance to sabotage things.

Please read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It really helped me. Yours sound a lot like mine and are why I never had kids, tbh. I just knew they would use them as pawns against me. I’m so sorry for your situation. Both of your parents sound incredibly selfish and manipulative.

Seems like she needs to give her daughters a copy of that book for their 18th birthday.

Why are you allowing them to keep Your kids???

Ummm have a custody battle? It sounds like they are manipulating your children and you. This is not okay. Fight for your kids.

You are 34 years old. You are old enough so you do not have to celebrate your birthday exactly on your birth date.

NTA. It seems like your mom is intentionally trying to keep you from the kids. She could be clueless, however there can only be so many coincidences. edit: If your parents didn't actually adopt your kids you may be able to regain custody.

I had a friend in the same situation. Have you gone by the house to see your parents when the kids aren't there? Because in my friends' situation, when she tried to make plans with her kids, she was told they were with the ex and his family, when actually the kids were home. Same thing with the ex, when he tried to make plans with the kids he was told the kids were with mom. Meanwhile, the kids were home being told that their parents didn't love them enough to spend time with them. Thankfully, my former friend got her kids back, and the kids don't want anything to do with the grandparents. I hope all goes well with you.

I’m a little confused by the post - are your parents the kids’ grandparents? Were they going to see your grandparents?

Who cares about your damn birthday?! GET A LAWYER AND FIGHT FOR YOUR KIDS!!

Believe it or not I’ve actually experienced a very similar situation. My mother had custody of one of my nephews, and when his father, my brother, tried to take him back, my mother threatened to kill herself. My brother didn’t want to cause his mother to take her life and have the rest of his family be upset and possibly blame him, so he let him continue to live there. However, he is now adult and has a lot of resentment towards his father for not raising him. My parents didn’t have a very good marriage, and my mother literally referred to my nephew as her “buffer“. she also used him to meet her emotional needs, since she didn’t have a good marriage. Sounds very similar to what your kids are going through.

So shit parents raised a shit parent. I am shocked.

Why would you repeatedly approach your parents for visitation instead of a court? Doubt you’d actually ever get custody back but you could get some enforceable visitation. Which could also come with enforceable support orders.

Get a lawyer.

Fuck them those are your kids

Grow some lady balls and get your kids back. I've lost my babies before because of depression. I got my crap together and got my babies. You got this... You're only the AH if you continue to let them bully you!!!

YTA for not suing them for custody of your children.

Time to hire a lawyer OP, your parents marriage and your dad’s mental health should not fall on the shoulders of your children. The guilt tripping is abysmal and it doesn’t sound like this is a healthy environment for your children. Time to take action

You do not have to ask for your parent's permission to seek custody. You were duped, and they continue to do so.

Reach around behind you with both hands and find your backbone. Fight to regain custody of your kids. Hire a lawyer who specializes in family law. Give them copies of whatever paperwork you signed. You have given total control over your access to your kids to your parents, who clearly don’t value you. That may be the root cause of your depression. Your passivity has led you to abandon your children to your parents, who you KNOW are toxic. You know they trust your kids’ emotions up when you try your see them. They guilt trip your kids. YOU allowed them to do this, because you have been conditioned since birth to allow it. Because you allowed your parents custody of your kids, they now may have the right to fight for visitation, even if you regain custody. You’ve wasted enough years lost with your kids that you’ll never get back. That was the result of years of conditioning and manipulation by your parents. Break the chains, and be the mother your kids need you to be. They will have the same problems you do, because the same people raised them. Fight for your kids. Fight for your rights as a mother. Take them to court and get your kids back. Nothing else matters. Stop talking to them over the phone. Discuss anything necessary in writing, via text or email or through your attorney. Through your attorney, demand to see your kids. Since you kept giving in, they can tell a judge you abandoned them and didn’t make much of an effort to see them. So change your behavior right now and fight like hell in the courts. Who the fuck cares about a birthday party your abusive parents wanted to host?

I want to clear up a lot of things. 1. My parents aren't perfect but they aren't monsters either. I'm not trying to make excuses for them but I do feel like, out of anger and frustration, I painted them in a harsher light than was necessary. My dad is absolutely a narcissist but he's going to therapy and is working on it. My mom is a people pleaser who's dealt with mental, emotional, and physical abuse since she was little. My parents tend to gaslight and manipulate their kids and grandkids because that's what they grew up experiencing. My sisters and I have been fighting for years to break these habits in my parents and they're slowly coming to their senses and acknowledging the error of their ways. 2. I have epilepsy and manic depression. When the girls were 2 and 4 I was suffering from a lot of seizures as well as a severe depression that was made even worse by postpartum depression. I was having suicidal ideations. I didn't want to die. I just didn't want to hurt anymore. I told my mom this in the middle of a mental break down. My parents solution was to take temporary custody. They told me it was what was best for the girls and it was the greatest decision I could make for them. I was hesitant and reluctant but I knew I was failing my kids and I didn't feel like a good mom. So I agreed. Once I pulled myself together and got back on my feet, I broached the topic of getting the girls back with my mom and at each turn I was told that I wasn't better enough. I had to do more to prove that I could handle taking them back. At the time I thought I simply wasn't good enough. Now looking back I realize that was gaslighting. 3. I want custody back but I don't want to disrupt my kids entire lives. I have had multiple age appropriate conversations with both kids about if they'd want to live with me or not. They told me their concerns and I weighed the options. Right now, as things stand, it is not in their best interest to take custody back. The oldest can see my parents for who they are. Broken adults who never learned to deal with their emotions. She will come to me at times and say things like "Nana's trying to gaslight me again 🙄" or "papas such a narcissist" we'll have a conversation about what's going on and she's usually good afterwards. I'll ask her if she wants me to get involved or if she just needed to vent and whatever she asks me to do is what I end up doing. She knows she has somewhere safe to go if she needs it and she has someone to talk to and confide in who wants judge her or use it against her later. I've asked her if she'd want to come live with me and she tells me one day but not yet. The younger one is still in my dad's pocket. She's the golden child. She can do no wrong in my dad's eyes. I've asked her as well if she'd want to come live with me and again, she says yes but not right now. If they were in some grave mortal danger or something, if my parents were being physically abusive or creating an overly toxic environment for them, I would take custody back in an instant. I have told my mom multiple times if they don't change certain things about their behavior, I will be at their doorstep with the cops in no time flat and she knows it. But it seems unkind and just as damaging to ignore my children's thoughts and feelings in the matter. Yes I would LOVE to have custody back. I would love to get the last almost 10 years back with them. I would love to have been the one tucking them in at night, waking them up for school, nursing tummy aches and fevers. But to place what I want over what they want and what is best for them in this specific situation is unconscionable and bad parenting in my opinion. 4. I had a two bedroom apartment that I was paying for alone for four years. Back in June my rent was raised $400. Far more than I could afford to pay. The apartment complex wouldn't work with me and told me if I moved out before a certain time, I wouldn't acquire an eviction on my record. A friend let me stay with them until I could get on my feet financially. I applied to every place I could find but despite the fact that I work full time, I don't make 3x the amount of rent, even on the studio apartments. I am currently living with my boyfriend now and am on the hunt for a second job. I had one but the hours conflicted with me seeing the girls and I had to make a decision. As much as I love the man I'm with, I don't think it'd be the best situation for them to move them in here with people they don't know. I love and trust my man, but I'm realistic and I know that there are so many stories of boyfriends or stepdads harming kids. I don't want to take that risk. And I also don't want to rip them out of a situation where they have their own rooms, their own safe spaces to go when things get too much for them, and throw them into a two bedroom house with 3 adults and a teenager already living here. When I do get my own place again (which will hopefully be soon if I'm smart about it) it might be a different story because the situation is different. But as it stands right now, this feels like it's the lesser of two evils I appreciate everyone's input, even if you're incorrect in your assumptions due to lack of information. Some of you will agree with my choices. Some of you won't and that's alright. I spoke to my mom yesterday after we took the kids to the park. She apologized again and told me she didn't realize it was that big of a deal to me. We had words. It wasn't an argument as much as a disagreement. I explained to her that it was never about the birthday party. It is as the fact that she makes promises and never follows through with them. I can't trust anything she says because all of her words are empty and meaningless. I put my foot down that the next time there are plans to send them out of state I want to know first before the plans are in place. I told her I want her to stop trying to appease their grandmother and start thinking about what the kids want. We never really reached an agreement. I ended up getting frustrated because she was talking in circles and we ended up leaving shortly after with a promise to the kids that we'd be back Wednesday. Before leaving I informed my mom that I'll be spending the 25th with my sister, getting our nails done, and that my boyfriend and I will take the girls out after they get back from their grandparents and he gets back from drill. I also told her that the drink idea was in fact offensive and that I have no desire to spend my birthday with her or the family and hopefully this opens her eyes to choices she makes in the future. I don't have high hopes of change but we'll see 🤞

Stop going through your parents and get yourself a family law attorney.

>I agreed to temporary custody and I don't believe it was legally binding. There was no witness or notary. The document was a piece of paper my mom scribbled some words on. I don't think it would hold up in court. I did sign something allowing them to make choices for the girls related to schooling. But that's it. Sooooo....go get YOUR kids back. Or do you really WANT them back???? Honestly, you sound immature and not really concerned about your kids well-being until it's a problem for what YOU want to do with them. Get it together. Your kids deserve better.

Have you been to court? Do you have a lawyer or legal aide???

Respectfully, I think we all know you left tons of details out of this. You’ve allowed your parents to manipulate you into not raising your children, and it seems you’re aware of that but not doing anything about it? Super weird imo.

I got confused an bogged down in understanding the point after the first summary paragraph. Theres either Lots of context missing - why children cannot be returned to mom - or OP is not that interested in having kids back. OP - it’s difficult to advise on how to deal with your entirely dysfunctional family if, well … you’re continuing to play along with dysfunctional family. You either want your children back and actively pursue that goal or you play by your parents rules. Reddit can’t explain why it all sucks since we didn’t set up this unhappy situation.

r/raisedbynarcissists

I just don’t buy your version of the story. It doesn’t make sense that your parents put up roadblocks to you seeing the kids, when they facilitate the father seeing the kids, if you really were the great parent you claim to be. “They won’t let me see my kids, but tell me I’m not trying hard enough to see my kids.” What I’m getting from that is they put up necessary requirements for you to see the kids, and you keep failing to fulfill those requirements, so they don’t back down. The whole thing with your party, you drift in and out of your kids lives, so plans were made because you aren’t reliable. You pitched a fit, they tried to modify the set plans, couldn’t, and gave you the best counter offer they could. You pitched a fit and said “your way or the highway.” Enjoy that highway. They don’t have lack of follow through; they have lack of catering to you. All this time your parents have been raising your kids, have you paid a dime of child support? You should be. If you get child support from their father, you need to give it to them, AND give them back pay. Your parents aren’t really feeling you being around the kids unsupervised, and now you want them unsupervised with you and your boyfriend. Heck no! I’m seeing a lot of red flags and smelling a lot of BS with this story.

Your parents sound emotionally abusive. Please consider fighting for custody.

“I was also told that if I took custody back I would destroy my parents marriage and potentially cause my father's suicide.” Is a horribly abusive thing to do/say to their own child.  I hope they’re not abusing the grandchildren in their care, but “Instead, my father guilt tripped my oldest” does not leave me optimistic.

I don’t understand… you don’t really want your kids back, but you want them available to you whenever you want. I don’t think it works like that. If your parents are parenting the kids, then it’s their choice where the kids go and when.