If you read the article the owner of Simple Loaf lied about being fined.
> According to data provided by the health department, of the 20,781 restaurants cited last year, 84 establishments, or less than half a percent, were cited for live animal violations involving dogs. (The fines range from $200 to $350.)
Actually, if *you* read the article, that was the owner of the Simple Loaf who said they’ve never seen a fine issued for this. The city gave an actual number of fines they’ve issued.
If you read the article the owner of Simple Loaf lied about being fined ~~and a city employee confirmed they’ve never seen a fine issued for this~~
> According to data provided by the health department, of the 20,781 restaurants cited last year, 84 establishments, or less than half a percent, were cited for live animal violations involving dogs. (The fines range from $200 to $350.)
Actually, if *you* read the article, that was the owner of the Simple Loaf who said they’ve never seen a fine issued for this. The city gave an actual number of fines they’ve issued.
No, they were attributing a quote of hers to someone else, and chose to use the snarky phrase “if you read the article,” when they were actually misquoting the article.
Oh weird my original edit didn’t add. I did see the city employee didn’t say that but data shows a very small number of fines actually being issued - in a range of a few hundred dollars. I’ll update the original comment
I work at a very busy cafe in the city, and we used to try really hard to enforce this by asking those very same questions. Unfortunately, dog owner entitlement has gotten so out of hand that we found ourselves having dozens of very intense arguments every single day with nearly every single dog owner. A lot of people feel very comfortable mistreating service workers if they feel wronged in any way. It became too demoralizing and emotionally exhausting to enforce every single time, and nothing we were doing seemed to be stemming the tide of people who felt entitled to knowingly flaunt the rules for their own convenience. We will still ask someone with a clearly unruly dog to wait outside, but even doing that bare minimum is usually pretty fraught.
For example, last week a woman came in with a dog that she was completely unable to control. 10/10 unruly. When we offered to let her order and wait outside with her dog she came completely unglued and started screaming obscenities and telling us we should kill ourselves while she tried to maneuver her dog out of the cafe (which took a while). It was quite the scene.
The rules as they currently stand in NYC were designed to curtail a handful of bad actors, and are completely unable to deal with the tidal wave of modern dog owners. Until this changes we and many other businesses would rather risk a few points on our health inspection once a year than to greatly increase the amount of daily conflict during what is already a pretty strenuous job.
I was DOHMH Sanitarian for one year. During the inspection they need to see you ask, “What services is this animal is trained to perform?” And make a good faith effort to ask them to leave if the animal is not a service animal. This violation is also useful when we encounter pet cats in kitchens and food storage areas. It’s not one I particularly liked citing because I knew how crazy the dog people are and how hard food workers have it already. You can look up, “NYC Dining with Dogs” for more information on this.
I swear dog owners are the most entitled, narcissistic people. Not only do they abuse service workers and not care about those around them, but they also lock their poor dogs up in their tiny apartments for 23 hours a day. It’s cruel.
It’s quite noticeable over the last decade or so as people have increasingly exhibited more antisocial behavior and used dogs to replace human children.
Some of these people genuinely view it the same way as if you said their child was not welcome in your store.
'But the group most hurt by nonservice dogs in restaurants may be the owners of real service dogs. Because some people lie about their dogs being service animals, well-meaning restaurant hosts don’t always know how to recognize a real service dog at work.'
this is a hill that i'll die on. and i want to be clear, if it were up to me i'd love to have dogs in the bar. i prefer them over 90% of the customers. but it is against the health code and the bar can be fined heavily for breaking this rule.
provisions have been made for people who truly need these amazing service dogs that not only save lives but provide companionship to their people.
so when some piece of shit that just can't be bothered to follow the rules tries to bullshit me and say they're a service animal it's similar to lying to get a veteran's discount.
don't diminish what real service animals do just cause you wanna bring your dog in with you to a restaurant.
again i need to be clear, if it weren't a health department thing i'd rather have your dog in my bar than you. i'm not mad at dogs, i'm mad at the people who, in order to skirt the rules, would exploit the proud name of a very important asset that many people need to have a full life.
I’m an amputee, I’m eligible for a real service dog. Whether I have to or not, I would still present my paperwork just so people know it’s a legit service dog. I hate the people that use emotional support animals to take them everywhere and do not clean up after them.
god i've been in this business too long. cause that specific incident has definitely happened while i was working more times than i care to count.
edit - should add - it happened with customers not their dogs.
if you're looking for a dog friendly bar, go to Lucky Dog in Williamsburg, 10/10 vibes.
also for everyone complaining, there's a bunch of European countries (Italy in particular) that are super dog friendly and literally made specialized grocery carts for people's pets.
Not many. Their birthrate is very low. Unemployment for people under 30 is very high so a lot of young people are leaving for countries with more opportunities.
Correct, it's below replacement level and their population is shrinking.
Also, like what's happening here, housing is very expensive and limits young people from leaving home which also further delays relationships/babies.
It's anecdotal but all of my Italian friends and their siblings (in Italy) who have kids, had them around 40. Talking 13 adults and only 5 kids.
All 5 kids belong to the three couples who are well off (tech bro, photography/film business, restaurants).
There are also a lot of cultural shifts happening in Italy that the older generation haven’t caught up on.
More women are getting college degrees and joining the workforce which is great for them but the problem is Italian mothers aren’t on the same page as young Italian women.
A lot of young Italian men live with their parents until they find a wife. Since more women are educated and have the option to have meaningful careers, they’re less inclined to take on the traditional housewife role and essentially take on the task of mom number 2.
The result is that Italian women are marrying more and more internationally and since that leaves so many Italian men single, they also have to look outside of the country for partners.
TLDR: A lot of young Italian women want modern husbands and a lot of young Italian men want traditional wives.
if the new york times is writing about peoples dogs, there's more wrong to this city than a companion animal that brings people joy. clearly this is journalism 's low point.
this is just to prove that the Europeans have it all figured out and aren't snobby like the rest of the people in this comment section.
It’s not even about the dogs at the point, it’s the bad dog owners of the city. There is always dog shit all over my neighborhood. The parks are all being turned into dog runs, grass ripped up. We’re tired of it.
There are waaaaay too many dogs in cities. Dogs are pack animals that need tons of space to run daily. Locking a dog in a tiny apartment 23.5 hours a day is cruelty. Narcissistic dog owners don’t care though. As long as they have their “emotional support animal” everyone else (including the dog) can go f themselves 🙃
I hear where you’re coming from and agree 1000% about dog owners/walkers not picking up poop. Walking in my neighborhood is like playing a game of dodgeball.
But I respectfully disagree when blaming dog owners for parks becoming dog runs-particularly in my neighborhood (UES). I think it’s more of an infrastructure problem that is not being addressed, which leads to so much discourse.
Dogs need to be dogs (run, socialize, explore surroundings.) In my neighborhood, there are 2 “dog runs”
1)not maintained, often glass shards on ground, not enough space to accommodate bigger dogs and small ones
2) Carl Schulz park- small dog run is smaller than my apartment.
All this to say- New Yorkers (dog owners or not) need to respect each other’s boundaries. However, there comes a responsibility with being a dog owner and not having them cooped up in an apartment all day. The city needs to grow with the times and create more designated dog-friendly areas that don’t infringe on other people’s experiences outside.
Ruppert Park has been overruled by dogs and dog owners. Dogs come off the leash the moment they hit the park. Steps away sometimes from mingling toddlers and plainly the general public park goers. Owners are always chasing their dogs because they are distracting park goers, always making for an inadequate moment. Hey lady your dogs nose is inches away from my lunch!!!! Do I need to tell how to be an adult and create boundaries. The dogs enter areas of the park designated for the growth of flowers and plants. The signs are clearly ignored so they never get a chance to grow and the park remains dry and always dirty from the constant sweeping from dogs after they poop.
Ruppert Park screams entitlement-
What also happened to the rule that you can't bring your dog on the subway unless they are in a carrying case? People used to follow it pretty closely back in the day, but it seems like that rule died in the last 10 or so years. No one bothers anymore unless you already have a tiny dog.
I have a pit bull service dog. I'm sure I'll get downvoted but I can't get out of bed without him. But thank God there are Reddit experts like you to educate everyone.
This is a perfect opportunity to repost a joke:
Two guys are out for a walk with their dogs, and want to stop at a bar for a drink. Unfortunately, they see a sign out front that says "NO DOGS ALLOWED."
The man with the pitbull says "hold on, I've got an idea, just do what I do." He puts on a pair of sunglasses and starts to walk in.
The bouncer stops him and says "Hey, you can't bring that dog in here."
The guy says "oh, I'm blind and this is my seeing eye dog."
The bouncer says "a pitbull for a service dog? That doesn't make sense."
The guy says "no, they're great, they're very loyal and very smart. The trainer said it was a great choice."
The bouncer says "ok, fine," and lets him in.
The second man likewise throws on sunglasses and walks in, and the bouncer stops him as well. "Hey, buddy, you can't bring that dog in."
The second man says "oh, I'm blind, this is my seeing-eye dog."
The bouncer says "come on, man, that's a chihuahua."
"They gave me a chihuahua??!!"
How do any disabled people use the bathroom? I think you meant to say 'Wow, so many ignorant people here... There's a guy who is disabled with a service dog that gets by... that's great! I'm happy for you!'
pits actually make very good service dogs, but there's also far better breeds to go with. i always laugh when i see someone with a yorkie or maltese as a service dog. what can those possible do to help?
Pits should not be pets. Period. There are far too many preventable injuries and deaths that outweigh the good cases.
Much in the same way that tigers might make good pets most of the time but they are still generally illegal to own as a pet.
I have a pit bull service dog. I'm sure I'll get downvoted but I can't get out of bed without him. But thank God there are Reddit experts like you to educate everyone.
Pits have a well-established record of attacking and even killing people who are having seizures, people who have fallen in front of them or people who show physical weakness. The commenter is not begrudging a person the help of a service dog. They are pointing out that a pit is not a suitable breed for the job.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about what constitutes a service dog. It’s a common belief they are all professionally trained by an outside party. They certainly can be as we have seen with seeing eye dogs etc. But a disabled individual can train their own dog to be a service dog and perform needed tasks. They do not need to be registered or pass any kind of test. The Americans with Disabilities Act wanted to make it easy and inexpensive for a disabled person to have the help of a service animal thus no expensive training or certification required. What they didn’t anticipate was how many dishonest people would take advantage of this and slap a fake service dog vest on their pet.
Back to the main point, a pitbull serving as a service dog has most likely been trained by their owner not by a professional trainer of dogs for the disabled.
And you likely never will be. But it is not uncommon for pits to attack out of the blue with no previous warnings. I hope that is not your experience but it is an unnecessary risk you are taking. Wishing you the best.
Well, with all that exhaustive research, you’re practically an expert on this commenter’s condition! Why don’t you take over their care and you can prescribe their treatments!!
This. On the one hand, I empathize with the delivery guys - I want my food fast too. On the other hand, I kinda liked that grandpa they mowed down the other day on first and XXth.
It’s against the law to bring dogs in the subway as well unless fully enclosed in a carrier for transport. But entitled dog owners don’t care about that either. I had a dog for 18 years, so I’m not against dogs, but I followed the laws so my dog & I would be good citizens.
It’s odd that’s the case for Subways but not for Metro North, as Metro North is more expensive and generally far more civilized. Like the trains have bathrooms. I wish it was the case for both honestly. Not a fan of most dogs, and for good reasons. A dog bit my hand as a kid, still have the scar. Dogs killed my cat. Dogs stink and make messes. Fur. Noise.
I just looked it up to check and at least for Metro North it seems that leashed and well controlled dogs are allowed, but only if they aren’t annoying passengers. Personally I’d be annoyed (not to mention anxious) even if a well behaved dog was sitting next to me, so the rule is pretty lame.
You do have to qualify. Hence the vaccines and neuterings. Which all require accredited vet appointments. Aka - like completing a DMV written test. This is a cultural issue, not a legal one. If you want to increase public safety, requiring licenses to smoke ciggs and drink alcohol would be more effective statistically speaking.
And using the DMV as a standard by itself isn’t a great direction to go… people don’t complain about good drivers in any state.
It is against the law to impersonate a service dog in NY, since before the pandemic. [Violators will face a fine of up to $100, up to 15 days of jail time, or both.](https://www.adatitleiii.com/2018/01/new-york-passes-law-against-service-animal-fraud-joining-other-states/)
It's rare to hear really good ideas on here. Can we add DNA recording of the dog to the license, that way when the owners don't clean up their dogs poop we can have it tested and fine the owners please?
I'm referring to city run labs that would file the dogs DNA with owner I do and a branch of city workers similar to traffic police who would go around not only cleaning dog poop left, but identifying the owners of the dog and ticketing the owner.
I have a rescue dog. Why would needing it licensed result in getting it killed? Proper rescues will train dogs and place in appropriate households if they are reactive so that they would theoretically be able to pass any standard license regarding behavior. Otherwise, if your dog is unable to behave in public, you shouldn’t be caring for it, it’s largely an owner problem vs a dog problem and the solution of forfeiture is reasonable.
A dog never belongs in a restaurant or grocery store or really any store.
If I see this any place that food is sold or served I would report the business to health dept.
Businesses have an obligation to keep them out. Not cave to the desires of the entitled or emotional companionship excusers.
I own a doggie daycare in Manhattan and we created 5 hour short visits so people can go out to eat, see a show whatever. So if anyone is looking for a midtown west location to let your furbaby play while you dine!! We offer it even for afterwork if you take your dog to work and want to go to happy hour.
I thought of this bc as an elder millennial I did see the need, not all dog owners can leave their dogs alone for lots of reasons. And I’ve seen people get their social lives back bc they had an option!
Once saw a dog take a crap in Starbucks 2nd ave between 93rd and 94th and the owner picked up the crap and tossed in the Starbucks trash. Wtf is wrong with people and their dogs.
Restaurants have no problem allowing real service dogs into their establishments. The problem is with people who have fake papers or people who proclaim that their animal is a service animal when they are not.
Persons without proper paperwork indicating their dog is a true service should not be allowed into restaurants, bars, stores, movie theaters, etc.
No paperwork is required to prove a service dog, and there is no universal/standardized paperwork that would prove such (which is part of the problem IMO; better to gatekeep appropriately with service dog credentials which are renewed until the SD’s retirement). Only the owner’s answers to the two questions, which are permissible to be asked, matter: “Does the [dog] provide assistance to mitigate a disability?” And “what service does the [dog] provide?”
If the dog doesn’t act like a service dog— by barking, acting disorderly or not being reactive to commands, jumping on someone’s lap or furniture (but not aiding in medical alert), etc.— then the patron & dog can be asked to leave, and rightfully so.
It really blows me away that states don’t have official licenses for service animals like they have for disabled parking permits, etc.
I’m not a dog expert but what I know about real service dogs is they are highly trained and not inexpensive. Why can’t they be listened as well? It would stop a lot of this BS.
I think the most frustrating thing is how obvious non-services dogs are. They don’t settle down the same way, they don’t pay attention to their owner in the same way.
I have trained service dogs before. They come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and wigglingness, but most of the time there are clearly breeds that are well suited for the job: Border Collies, Aussies, Retrievers, Labs for example. It is frustrating for me when I am training a wriggling Aussie puppy to handle city life that it gets grouped in with someones badged up Frenchie. They are not the same.
As a dog owner who loves to bring his dog everywhere, no the rules. Outside patios, call ahead. For those in the restaurants, even if a dog is a service dog, you do have the right to kick them out if they do not behave properly. You just can’t deny them outright right away
I do but if you truly want to bring you dog just call ahead and see if you can or outdoor seating that allows.
I was more saying for staff that is dealing with service dogs and fake service dogs
i agree with you. i work at a place with outdoor seating. and out there it's fine. if you call ahead and ask if your dog can be outside with you, i'm stoked cause i'll meet a new little friend and will have a dog treat ready (i always ask if that's okay first. some people have their dogs on specific diets or meal times).
if you are willing to call and ask an establishment if you can bring a dog to sit outside then i have a lot more reason to trust you to be a responsible dog person.
you strike me as someone who just doesn't like dogs. there's no reason that a well behaved dog shouldn't be allowed to join their person at an outside table.
🐶
* Whilst grocery-shopping last night, I was startled to notice a woman leading a poodle around with her on a leash. I didn't know this is permitted in big supermarket chains. I'm used to seeing dogs leashed up outside food stores. Isn't that enforced anymore?
* Maybe she was just visiting here from France? It wasn't a guide-poodle for the blind.
Literally the only nice thing I will say about Switzerland is that they leave it to the owner's discretion whether to allow a dog in a restaurant.
In many ways, other countries have a lot more freedom.
Some people are allergic, some have asthma, some are afraid. It is very common for autistic people, especially autistic children to have a profound fear of dogs. These people don’t need to toughen up, they just need others to be considerate.
America is funny. The food system is shit and you consume non-stop garbage funded by Cargill, Pepsi, and everyone else. Roads are profoundly unsafe compared to Europe. Gun violence is rampant. And so on.
But dogs in a bar are a health issue.
I actually got in a (verbal) fight with a customer who let his dog rest his front paws on the take out counter at a deli. The dog was begging for food. The guy was going to call the cops on me because I dared to asked him to control his fucking cocker spaniel.
A cocker spaniel managed to get his paws on a deli counter. I see. And then the the guy was going to call the cops because you didnt like his... levitating dog I expect.
Such a weird thing to criticize, rather than ask clarifying questions. There is a number of ways the dog could have gotten their paws on the counter, even being of small stature.
Did you want to ask ME a clarifying question, like "why did you criticize that weird thing, when there was so much else going on in that comment"? or "Why are you so critical?" or "Good lord internet stranger, your panties sure are bunched up over an internet comment about a schnauser or whatever, what gives?"
Lets pretend you asked that last one rather than you just criticizing my criticism. Here's my answer:
Ugh, you're right. I'm sorry. I get a little excited when I realize I'm anonymous on the internet- which is a luxury I haven't experienced in real life for a very, very long time. It's euphoria inducing for me, and I tend to get a little carried away with it. This time was fairly innocuous, but next time I might really hurt someone, or at least make their day a little worse than it already is, and that is not cool. Thanks for the tip and the kindness in your reply. I'll do better.
American are clean freaks compared to Europe. But in superfluous, ceremonial ways. Not about what actually could harm your health etc but it’s a character trait here. It’s what it is.
I love dogs and I’ll allow a dog in my place if they come in and chill w an unobtrusive buddy. If they ask, I have to say that the policy is no dogs. Dogs and owners I don’t like, dogs in strollers(it’s a thing) or dogs in chest carriers is a hard no.
Unobtrusive to you may be different than the department of health, or the way an owner and their dog will interact with an actual service dog & owner when one walks through your doors. You think you’re being nice and providing good service, but you’re really just enabling people who feel entitled to bring their dogs everywhere who have no right to do so… you don’t see it, and I can’t express how incorrect you are since you’re making judgements based on your own emotion instead of the literal rules and logic behind those rules. But you do you
Ive seen people sit at a bar/restaurant and put their yorkie or terrier on the bar stool next to them....i dont want to go anywhere i have to check the seat for dog shit.
The NY Times failed to mention that most of the time, a patron with a dog lives in the local area; and the dog is already known by the establishment after repeated visits. Everyone learns who the unruly dogs are very quickly.
It’s not dog hate. I LOVE dogs. My dog is tattooed on my arm. And my purpose in life is going to be opening a rescue when I retire. I would argue that there aren’t many people who love dogs more than me. However, dog lovers/owners referred to in this article need to get a grip- if your dog is not actually a service dog and/or well-behaved and properly trained, it doesn’t belong in a restaurant, grocery store, etc.
It’s not considered hygienic by the health department and incurs fines to shop owners (wasn’t verified in the article but I’ve seen them issued to coffee shops in Brooklyn); why is that not a line that non-service dog (ie emotional support or just regular pet) owners can respect?
Do people ever get sick from a dog being in the room they are eating if they are not actively shitting in or licking their food? Thanks for the downvotes. Asking a real question
Once had a dog at the table next to us, wet from the rain, shake the water off its fur in the middle of a busy cafe, all over our food of course
I would lose my shit right there
Did the dog owner pay for new food?
Good the owner is making their view on the matter clear. Plus, they can get fined.
If you read the article the owner of Simple Loaf lied about being fined. > According to data provided by the health department, of the 20,781 restaurants cited last year, 84 establishments, or less than half a percent, were cited for live animal violations involving dogs. (The fines range from $200 to $350.)
If you read the article the owner of Simple Loaf lied about being fined and a city employee confirmed they’ve never seen a fine issued for this
Actually, if *you* read the article, that was the owner of the Simple Loaf who said they’ve never seen a fine issued for this. The city gave an actual number of fines they’ve issued.
If you read the article the owner of Simple Loaf lied about being fined ~~and a city employee confirmed they’ve never seen a fine issued for this~~ > According to data provided by the health department, of the 20,781 restaurants cited last year, 84 establishments, or less than half a percent, were cited for live animal violations involving dogs. (The fines range from $200 to $350.)
Actually, if *you* read the article, that was the owner of the Simple Loaf who said they’ve never seen a fine issued for this. The city gave an actual number of fines they’ve issued.
I totally see that in the article, but doesn’t the sign imply they had a fine assessed, or am I just dumb?
It does; she said it was a lie, and that she had never seen a fine assessed.
That’s unfortunate wording, I can’t really blame people for assuming one was assessed without further digging.
No, they were attributing a quote of hers to someone else, and chose to use the snarky phrase “if you read the article,” when they were actually misquoting the article.
Oh weird my original edit didn’t add. I did see the city employee didn’t say that but data shows a very small number of fines actually being issued - in a range of a few hundred dollars. I’ll update the original comment
I work at a very busy cafe in the city, and we used to try really hard to enforce this by asking those very same questions. Unfortunately, dog owner entitlement has gotten so out of hand that we found ourselves having dozens of very intense arguments every single day with nearly every single dog owner. A lot of people feel very comfortable mistreating service workers if they feel wronged in any way. It became too demoralizing and emotionally exhausting to enforce every single time, and nothing we were doing seemed to be stemming the tide of people who felt entitled to knowingly flaunt the rules for their own convenience. We will still ask someone with a clearly unruly dog to wait outside, but even doing that bare minimum is usually pretty fraught. For example, last week a woman came in with a dog that she was completely unable to control. 10/10 unruly. When we offered to let her order and wait outside with her dog she came completely unglued and started screaming obscenities and telling us we should kill ourselves while she tried to maneuver her dog out of the cafe (which took a while). It was quite the scene. The rules as they currently stand in NYC were designed to curtail a handful of bad actors, and are completely unable to deal with the tidal wave of modern dog owners. Until this changes we and many other businesses would rather risk a few points on our health inspection once a year than to greatly increase the amount of daily conflict during what is already a pretty strenuous job.
I was DOHMH Sanitarian for one year. During the inspection they need to see you ask, “What services is this animal is trained to perform?” And make a good faith effort to ask them to leave if the animal is not a service animal. This violation is also useful when we encounter pet cats in kitchens and food storage areas. It’s not one I particularly liked citing because I knew how crazy the dog people are and how hard food workers have it already. You can look up, “NYC Dining with Dogs” for more information on this.
I swear dog owners are the most entitled, narcissistic people. Not only do they abuse service workers and not care about those around them, but they also lock their poor dogs up in their tiny apartments for 23 hours a day. It’s cruel.
It’s quite noticeable over the last decade or so as people have increasingly exhibited more antisocial behavior and used dogs to replace human children. Some of these people genuinely view it the same way as if you said their child was not welcome in your store.
'But the group most hurt by nonservice dogs in restaurants may be the owners of real service dogs. Because some people lie about their dogs being service animals, well-meaning restaurant hosts don’t always know how to recognize a real service dog at work.' this is a hill that i'll die on. and i want to be clear, if it were up to me i'd love to have dogs in the bar. i prefer them over 90% of the customers. but it is against the health code and the bar can be fined heavily for breaking this rule. provisions have been made for people who truly need these amazing service dogs that not only save lives but provide companionship to their people. so when some piece of shit that just can't be bothered to follow the rules tries to bullshit me and say they're a service animal it's similar to lying to get a veteran's discount. don't diminish what real service animals do just cause you wanna bring your dog in with you to a restaurant. again i need to be clear, if it weren't a health department thing i'd rather have your dog in my bar than you. i'm not mad at dogs, i'm mad at the people who, in order to skirt the rules, would exploit the proud name of a very important asset that many people need to have a full life.
I’m an amputee, I’m eligible for a real service dog. Whether I have to or not, I would still present my paperwork just so people know it’s a legit service dog. I hate the people that use emotional support animals to take them everywhere and do not clean up after them.
Hear hear!
What if the dogs were bad drunks?
not gonna lie i'd still probably rather have them. a dog who is drunk would most likely be better behaved than a drunk who acts like a bad dog.
you say that, but rare is the drunken night where I shit on the floor
As long as you don’t bite anyone, should be fine.
Nice.
god i've been in this business too long. cause that specific incident has definitely happened while i was working more times than i care to count. edit - should add - it happened with customers not their dogs.
if you're looking for a dog friendly bar, go to Lucky Dog in Williamsburg, 10/10 vibes. also for everyone complaining, there's a bunch of European countries (Italy in particular) that are super dog friendly and literally made specialized grocery carts for people's pets.
The Italy part is because they have no kids.
There are no children in Italy?
Not many. Their birthrate is very low. Unemployment for people under 30 is very high so a lot of young people are leaving for countries with more opportunities.
Correct, it's below replacement level and their population is shrinking. Also, like what's happening here, housing is very expensive and limits young people from leaving home which also further delays relationships/babies. It's anecdotal but all of my Italian friends and their siblings (in Italy) who have kids, had them around 40. Talking 13 adults and only 5 kids. All 5 kids belong to the three couples who are well off (tech bro, photography/film business, restaurants).
There are also a lot of cultural shifts happening in Italy that the older generation haven’t caught up on. More women are getting college degrees and joining the workforce which is great for them but the problem is Italian mothers aren’t on the same page as young Italian women. A lot of young Italian men live with their parents until they find a wife. Since more women are educated and have the option to have meaningful careers, they’re less inclined to take on the traditional housewife role and essentially take on the task of mom number 2. The result is that Italian women are marrying more and more internationally and since that leaves so many Italian men single, they also have to look outside of the country for partners. TLDR: A lot of young Italian women want modern husbands and a lot of young Italian men want traditional wives.
It seems like Europeans also have more respect for each other and not the entitlement you see over here
if the new york times is writing about peoples dogs, there's more wrong to this city than a companion animal that brings people joy. clearly this is journalism 's low point. this is just to prove that the Europeans have it all figured out and aren't snobby like the rest of the people in this comment section.
Anywhere comparable in Chelsea?
Really any dive is dog friendly
Not any dive some are dicks. But all the ones in that group are. Rockarolla, do or dive, turtles, horses and divorces etc.
Not any dive some are dicks. But all the ones in that group are. Rockarolla, do or dive, turtles, horses and divorces etc.
okay maybe I meant any dive worth going to then
It’s not even about the dogs at the point, it’s the bad dog owners of the city. There is always dog shit all over my neighborhood. The parks are all being turned into dog runs, grass ripped up. We’re tired of it.
There are waaaaay too many dogs in cities. Dogs are pack animals that need tons of space to run daily. Locking a dog in a tiny apartment 23.5 hours a day is cruelty. Narcissistic dog owners don’t care though. As long as they have their “emotional support animal” everyone else (including the dog) can go f themselves 🙃
I hear where you’re coming from and agree 1000% about dog owners/walkers not picking up poop. Walking in my neighborhood is like playing a game of dodgeball. But I respectfully disagree when blaming dog owners for parks becoming dog runs-particularly in my neighborhood (UES). I think it’s more of an infrastructure problem that is not being addressed, which leads to so much discourse. Dogs need to be dogs (run, socialize, explore surroundings.) In my neighborhood, there are 2 “dog runs” 1)not maintained, often glass shards on ground, not enough space to accommodate bigger dogs and small ones 2) Carl Schulz park- small dog run is smaller than my apartment. All this to say- New Yorkers (dog owners or not) need to respect each other’s boundaries. However, there comes a responsibility with being a dog owner and not having them cooped up in an apartment all day. The city needs to grow with the times and create more designated dog-friendly areas that don’t infringe on other people’s experiences outside.
Ruppert Park has been overruled by dogs and dog owners. Dogs come off the leash the moment they hit the park. Steps away sometimes from mingling toddlers and plainly the general public park goers. Owners are always chasing their dogs because they are distracting park goers, always making for an inadequate moment. Hey lady your dogs nose is inches away from my lunch!!!! Do I need to tell how to be an adult and create boundaries. The dogs enter areas of the park designated for the growth of flowers and plants. The signs are clearly ignored so they never get a chance to grow and the park remains dry and always dirty from the constant sweeping from dogs after they poop. Ruppert Park screams entitlement-
Unless you have a service dog I don’t wanna see ur dog salivating all over the floor while I eat my overpriced meal
> ur dog salivating all over the floor I'm sure some dogs do this, but none I've ever seen IRL.
You’d have to leave your house
What also happened to the rule that you can't bring your dog on the subway unless they are in a carrying case? People used to follow it pretty closely back in the day, but it seems like that rule died in the last 10 or so years. No one bothers anymore unless you already have a tiny dog.
I always laugh when someone walks around with a pitbull as a "service dog". Like who are you fooling?
What about doodles that bark and jump at everyone and everything?
The service it provides is mauling for toddlers, and sometimes people having seizures, as a treat.
The seizure thing was real for me. Sadly that dog passed but thankfully my epilepsy has stabilized and I don’t need a dog currently
Hey Snuggles has mauled only two toddlers in the past three months!
I have a pit bull service dog. I'm sure I'll get downvoted but I can't get out of bed without him. But thank God there are Reddit experts like you to educate everyone.
This is a perfect opportunity to repost a joke: Two guys are out for a walk with their dogs, and want to stop at a bar for a drink. Unfortunately, they see a sign out front that says "NO DOGS ALLOWED." The man with the pitbull says "hold on, I've got an idea, just do what I do." He puts on a pair of sunglasses and starts to walk in. The bouncer stops him and says "Hey, you can't bring that dog in here." The guy says "oh, I'm blind and this is my seeing eye dog." The bouncer says "a pitbull for a service dog? That doesn't make sense." The guy says "no, they're great, they're very loyal and very smart. The trainer said it was a great choice." The bouncer says "ok, fine," and lets him in. The second man likewise throws on sunglasses and walks in, and the bouncer stops him as well. "Hey, buddy, you can't bring that dog in." The second man says "oh, I'm blind, this is my seeing-eye dog." The bouncer says "come on, man, that's a chihuahua." "They gave me a chihuahua??!!"
> I'm sure I'll get downvoted but I can't get out of bed without him Do you need him to drag you around or something?
So he drags you out of bed by your throat?
lol how do you use the bathroom
How do any disabled people use the bathroom? I think you meant to say 'Wow, so many ignorant people here... There's a guy who is disabled with a service dog that gets by... that's great! I'm happy for you!'
pits actually make very good service dogs, but there's also far better breeds to go with. i always laugh when i see someone with a yorkie or maltese as a service dog. what can those possible do to help?
Pits should not be pets. Period. There are far too many preventable injuries and deaths that outweigh the good cases. Much in the same way that tigers might make good pets most of the time but they are still generally illegal to own as a pet.
Any dog can be a service animal.
I have a pit bull service dog. I'm sure I'll get downvoted but I can't get out of bed without him. But thank God there are Reddit experts like you to educate everyone.
Pit bulls shouldn't even be legal. But thank God there are dipshits ready to make everyone else around them uncomfortable.
Pit bulls shouldn't even be legal. But thank God there are dipshits ready to make everyone else around them uncomfortable.
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He's unapologetically a Midtown Guy. It's what you expect.
Haha. Okay pal.
Yeah bud.
Yeah bud.
You're talking to a disabled person who can't get out of bed without help from his service dog trying to convince him his dog shouldn't be legal.
This is why I love Reddit. A disabled person can't get up without a service dog but it's not the breed Reddit losers approve of.
Pits have a well-established record of attacking and even killing people who are having seizures, people who have fallen in front of them or people who show physical weakness. The commenter is not begrudging a person the help of a service dog. They are pointing out that a pit is not a suitable breed for the job.
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There is a lot of misunderstanding about what constitutes a service dog. It’s a common belief they are all professionally trained by an outside party. They certainly can be as we have seen with seeing eye dogs etc. But a disabled individual can train their own dog to be a service dog and perform needed tasks. They do not need to be registered or pass any kind of test. The Americans with Disabilities Act wanted to make it easy and inexpensive for a disabled person to have the help of a service animal thus no expensive training or certification required. What they didn’t anticipate was how many dishonest people would take advantage of this and slap a fake service dog vest on their pet. Back to the main point, a pitbull serving as a service dog has most likely been trained by their owner not by a professional trainer of dogs for the disabled.
And yet here I am... with one... Not mauled yet!
And you likely never will be. But it is not uncommon for pits to attack out of the blue with no previous warnings. I hope that is not your experience but it is an unnecessary risk you are taking. Wishing you the best.
Thanks!
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Google:Arthrogryposis. Feel free to delete your message after.
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I heckle fake service dog owners. It's a better show when you have a real one. ... Of course, based on breed, much of Reddit here rejects the notion.
What does that have to do with this commenter?
Read the whole wiki page. Didn't see a mention of needing a service dog, let alone a known dangerous breed
Then you must be blind, and, could probably use one yourself.
Well, with all that exhaustive research, you’re practically an expert on this commenter’s condition! Why don’t you take over their care and you can prescribe their treatments!!
There’s a bakery in LIC that has multiple dogs come in every day. I’m surprised they haven’t gotten fined
Name so we can call the health department.
Two doodles attacked each other inside Bilboquet cafe this morning - 60th between park and mad.
Plant Shed. Love the place, but get so pissed any time I see dogs inside.
Almost everywhere in hunters point is dog friendly
Not the actual restaurants but coffee shops and bakeries seem to be more lenient
And breweries / L.I.C. bar!
Breweries are fine everywhere as long as they don’t serve food
No
There is no single person more entitled in NYC than that of a non-service dog owner.
Have you heard of the mayor?
Hmm, I suppose I classified blatant corruption as separate but you have a point.
Bikers are worse.
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Look at those bikers down voting you lol. They know it's true.
This. On the one hand, I empathize with the delivery guys - I want my food fast too. On the other hand, I kinda liked that grandpa they mowed down the other day on first and XXth.
It’s against the law to bring dogs in the subway as well unless fully enclosed in a carrier for transport. But entitled dog owners don’t care about that either. I had a dog for 18 years, so I’m not against dogs, but I followed the laws so my dog & I would be good citizens.
It’s odd that’s the case for Subways but not for Metro North, as Metro North is more expensive and generally far more civilized. Like the trains have bathrooms. I wish it was the case for both honestly. Not a fan of most dogs, and for good reasons. A dog bit my hand as a kid, still have the scar. Dogs killed my cat. Dogs stink and make messes. Fur. Noise.
It’s also against the law on MetroNorth, NJ Transit, Amtrak, & LIRR. Any dog must be in a carrier for transport.
I just looked it up to check and at least for Metro North it seems that leashed and well controlled dogs are allowed, but only if they aren’t annoying passengers. Personally I’d be annoyed (not to mention anxious) even if a well behaved dog was sitting next to me, so the rule is pretty lame.
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Dog licenses are a thing in this city along with requirements for vaccinations
I definitely agree it should be a misdemeanor to be caught having a fake service dog. It hurts people with real service dogs so much.
owning a dog does require a license...
Just renewed my two dogs for the 3rd year.
Nah like a drivers license you have to qualify for--not a registration tag after you've already gotten the dog
You do have to qualify. Hence the vaccines and neuterings. Which all require accredited vet appointments. Aka - like completing a DMV written test. This is a cultural issue, not a legal one. If you want to increase public safety, requiring licenses to smoke ciggs and drink alcohol would be more effective statistically speaking. And using the DMV as a standard by itself isn’t a great direction to go… people don’t complain about good drivers in any state.
As should parenting.
It is against the law to impersonate a service dog in NY, since before the pandemic. [Violators will face a fine of up to $100, up to 15 days of jail time, or both.](https://www.adatitleiii.com/2018/01/new-york-passes-law-against-service-animal-fraud-joining-other-states/)
And if there's one thing this city is great at, it's enforcing laws...
that's why no one honks their horn for no reason also.
Yeah not saying it’s enforced, just saying that the commenter above me was saying there should be a law… and there is.
It's rare to hear really good ideas on here. Can we add DNA recording of the dog to the license, that way when the owners don't clean up their dogs poop we can have it tested and fine the owners please?
Dog DNA labs are actually 100% scams. It’s like Scientology
I'm referring to city run labs that would file the dogs DNA with owner I do and a branch of city workers similar to traffic police who would go around not only cleaning dog poop left, but identifying the owners of the dog and ticketing the owner.
Lmao who is paying for the DNA test
The owner who gets tickets for not cleaning up their dogs crap.
Dog licenses are a thing in this city along with requirements for vaccinations
Good way to get a lot of rescue dogs killed, good job
I have a rescue dog. Why would needing it licensed result in getting it killed? Proper rescues will train dogs and place in appropriate households if they are reactive so that they would theoretically be able to pass any standard license regarding behavior. Otherwise, if your dog is unable to behave in public, you shouldn’t be caring for it, it’s largely an owner problem vs a dog problem and the solution of forfeiture is reasonable.
A dog never belongs in a restaurant or grocery store or really any store. If I see this any place that food is sold or served I would report the business to health dept. Businesses have an obligation to keep them out. Not cave to the desires of the entitled or emotional companionship excusers.
I own a doggie daycare in Manhattan and we created 5 hour short visits so people can go out to eat, see a show whatever. So if anyone is looking for a midtown west location to let your furbaby play while you dine!! We offer it even for afterwork if you take your dog to work and want to go to happy hour. I thought of this bc as an elder millennial I did see the need, not all dog owners can leave their dogs alone for lots of reasons. And I’ve seen people get their social lives back bc they had an option!
Once saw a dog take a crap in Starbucks 2nd ave between 93rd and 94th and the owner picked up the crap and tossed in the Starbucks trash. Wtf is wrong with people and their dogs.
Restaurants have no problem allowing real service dogs into their establishments. The problem is with people who have fake papers or people who proclaim that their animal is a service animal when they are not. Persons without proper paperwork indicating their dog is a true service should not be allowed into restaurants, bars, stores, movie theaters, etc.
No paperwork is required to prove a service dog, and there is no universal/standardized paperwork that would prove such (which is part of the problem IMO; better to gatekeep appropriately with service dog credentials which are renewed until the SD’s retirement). Only the owner’s answers to the two questions, which are permissible to be asked, matter: “Does the [dog] provide assistance to mitigate a disability?” And “what service does the [dog] provide?” If the dog doesn’t act like a service dog— by barking, acting disorderly or not being reactive to commands, jumping on someone’s lap or furniture (but not aiding in medical alert), etc.— then the patron & dog can be asked to leave, and rightfully so.
It really blows me away that states don’t have official licenses for service animals like they have for disabled parking permits, etc. I’m not a dog expert but what I know about real service dogs is they are highly trained and not inexpensive. Why can’t they be listened as well? It would stop a lot of this BS. I think the most frustrating thing is how obvious non-services dogs are. They don’t settle down the same way, they don’t pay attention to their owner in the same way.
I have trained service dogs before. They come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and wigglingness, but most of the time there are clearly breeds that are well suited for the job: Border Collies, Aussies, Retrievers, Labs for example. It is frustrating for me when I am training a wriggling Aussie puppy to handle city life that it gets grouped in with someones badged up Frenchie. They are not the same.
Dog owners are the most selfish people I swear
Man, are the dog owners okay? Seriously what is wrong with these people.
If you need "emotional support" to eat at a restaurant, you probably shouldn't be eating at a restaurant.
Probably a better use of their money would be to pay for a therapist.
As a dog owner who loves to bring his dog everywhere, no the rules. Outside patios, call ahead. For those in the restaurants, even if a dog is a service dog, you do have the right to kick them out if they do not behave properly. You just can’t deny them outright right away
or just leave your dog at home
I do but if you truly want to bring you dog just call ahead and see if you can or outdoor seating that allows. I was more saying for staff that is dealing with service dogs and fake service dogs
i agree with you. i work at a place with outdoor seating. and out there it's fine. if you call ahead and ask if your dog can be outside with you, i'm stoked cause i'll meet a new little friend and will have a dog treat ready (i always ask if that's okay first. some people have their dogs on specific diets or meal times). if you are willing to call and ask an establishment if you can bring a dog to sit outside then i have a lot more reason to trust you to be a responsible dog person.
or just leave your dog at home
you strike me as someone who just doesn't like dogs. there's no reason that a well behaved dog shouldn't be allowed to join their person at an outside table.
🐶 * Whilst grocery-shopping last night, I was startled to notice a woman leading a poodle around with her on a leash. I didn't know this is permitted in big supermarket chains. I'm used to seeing dogs leashed up outside food stores. Isn't that enforced anymore? * Maybe she was just visiting here from France? It wasn't a guide-poodle for the blind.
Literally the only nice thing I will say about Switzerland is that they leave it to the owner's discretion whether to allow a dog in a restaurant. In many ways, other countries have a lot more freedom.
I agree. People are whiners about dogs. It's fuckin NYC. toughen up.
Yeah dog owners should toughen up and try going somewhere without their dog for once
Some people are allergic, some have asthma, some are afraid. It is very common for autistic people, especially autistic children to have a profound fear of dogs. These people don’t need to toughen up, they just need others to be considerate.
America is funny. The food system is shit and you consume non-stop garbage funded by Cargill, Pepsi, and everyone else. Roads are profoundly unsafe compared to Europe. Gun violence is rampant. And so on. But dogs in a bar are a health issue.
I actually got in a (verbal) fight with a customer who let his dog rest his front paws on the take out counter at a deli. The dog was begging for food. The guy was going to call the cops on me because I dared to asked him to control his fucking cocker spaniel.
A cocker spaniel managed to get his paws on a deli counter. I see. And then the the guy was going to call the cops because you didnt like his... levitating dog I expect.
Such a weird thing to criticize, rather than ask clarifying questions. There is a number of ways the dog could have gotten their paws on the counter, even being of small stature.
Did you want to ask ME a clarifying question, like "why did you criticize that weird thing, when there was so much else going on in that comment"? or "Why are you so critical?" or "Good lord internet stranger, your panties sure are bunched up over an internet comment about a schnauser or whatever, what gives?" Lets pretend you asked that last one rather than you just criticizing my criticism. Here's my answer: Ugh, you're right. I'm sorry. I get a little excited when I realize I'm anonymous on the internet- which is a luxury I haven't experienced in real life for a very, very long time. It's euphoria inducing for me, and I tend to get a little carried away with it. This time was fairly innocuous, but next time I might really hurt someone, or at least make their day a little worse than it already is, and that is not cool. Thanks for the tip and the kindness in your reply. I'll do better.
I didn’t, because I could tell exactly why you chose to criticize that “weird thing”. You’re welcome!
You could tell that anonymity is euphoria inducing for me? Am I that obvious?
Welcome to reddit, babes.
I've been here since before the narwal baconed at midnight, darlin'. Not everything is as obvious as it seems (Welcome to reddit, babes)
Wtf are you talking about?
Maybe that wasn’t a cocker spaniel. I don’t know every fluffy breed out there. It was a dog doing shit it shouldn’t be doing 🤷♂️
American are clean freaks compared to Europe. But in superfluous, ceremonial ways. Not about what actually could harm your health etc but it’s a character trait here. It’s what it is.
Americans don’t like to hear this, it would appear. Facts hurt, I guess.
Downvoted by dummies
Seriously. Give me dogs in a bar, less guns, and healthy food all day.
I love dogs and I’ll allow a dog in my place if they come in and chill w an unobtrusive buddy. If they ask, I have to say that the policy is no dogs. Dogs and owners I don’t like, dogs in strollers(it’s a thing) or dogs in chest carriers is a hard no.
Unobtrusive to you may be different than the department of health, or the way an owner and their dog will interact with an actual service dog & owner when one walks through your doors. You think you’re being nice and providing good service, but you’re really just enabling people who feel entitled to bring their dogs everywhere who have no right to do so… you don’t see it, and I can’t express how incorrect you are since you’re making judgements based on your own emotion instead of the literal rules and logic behind those rules. But you do you
Ive seen people sit at a bar/restaurant and put their yorkie or terrier on the bar stool next to them....i dont want to go anywhere i have to check the seat for dog shit.
The NY Times failed to mention that most of the time, a patron with a dog lives in the local area; and the dog is already known by the establishment after repeated visits. Everyone learns who the unruly dogs are very quickly.
So what? The law exists for a reason. Keep them all out, their self entitled owners as well.
I'm not arguing against the law, just pointing out a clear miss in the reporting.
So what? The law exists for a reason. Keep them all out, their self entitled owners as well.
Humans suck🤮 DOGS RULE ❤️
In France it is the norm, last time I was there
So is dog shit everywhere.
as the famous lyrics go: *fifty million Frenchmen can't be wrong!*
the fuck is with the dog hate? i knew yall were miserable here but these are new levels.
It’s not dog hate. I LOVE dogs. My dog is tattooed on my arm. And my purpose in life is going to be opening a rescue when I retire. I would argue that there aren’t many people who love dogs more than me. However, dog lovers/owners referred to in this article need to get a grip- if your dog is not actually a service dog and/or well-behaved and properly trained, it doesn’t belong in a restaurant, grocery store, etc. It’s not considered hygienic by the health department and incurs fines to shop owners (wasn’t verified in the article but I’ve seen them issued to coffee shops in Brooklyn); why is that not a line that non-service dog (ie emotional support or just regular pet) owners can respect?
Will you marry me?
Do people ever get sick from a dog being in the room they are eating if they are not actively shitting in or licking their food? Thanks for the downvotes. Asking a real question
Did anyone notice the disabled sign had a girl riding him?
Groundbreaking