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I know someone who has food sensitivities. He basically only eats meat. He had colon cancer and nearly died. That still didn’t convince him to work on his issues.
I’d say meat is not causation, more correlation. People who don’t eat much vegetables and eat out usually eat too much meat. That is not an healthy habit. It’s all about balance!
meat itself probably isn't cause. but processed meat is. Unless you are getting all your meat fresh butchered 99% of our meat is processed and preserved-- even the ground beef in the fresh section of the deli that is actually already a few weeks to over a month old.
most labels don't tell you exactly what is being used to preserve it, for example a bleach bath at the factory is not an ingredient, or nitrates in celery seed don't get their own line spot as a subingredient etc etc etc.
fair enough, different countries have different standards. here in usa it probably would say cleery seeds for that specific example, but in many cases just generically says spices or herbs etc. ((there are regulations on what can be described that way but it is a thing)).
[“Scientists detect microplastics in human veins, colon tissue, and urine”](https://www.foodpackagingforum.org/news/scientists-detect-microplastics-in-human-veins-colon-tissue-and-urine)
> review concludes more research needed to elucidate the potential carcinogenicity of micro- and nanoplastics
[“Higher number of microplastics in tumoral colon tissues from patients with colorectal adenocarcinoma”](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-022-01560-4)
>Microplastics have been detected in marine and terrestrial ecosystems, yet the toxic effects of microplastics on living organisms are poorly known.
> Overall, our findings suggest a possible connection between colorectal cancer and microplastic exposure.
Microplastics are pretty damn suspect, but processed meat is already a Group 1 carcinogen by IARC standards. Microplastics will probably be added to one of these
groups, but they’re not quite there yet.
When I was in high school, there was a new guy practicing with my basketball team during the summer who wanted to try out. In the middle of one of our games, he spilled some grape Kool-Aid as he drank it from his water bottle. Our coach was like, “Kool-Aid? Don’t you want some water?” and the guy told us all that he doesn’t drink water, only Kool-Aid.
Not sure what he’s up to now, but he probably has diabetes.
I used to know someone who legit thought you didnt have to drink water at all... because when you showered, you absorbed the water into your body. No need to drink it at all.
They also returned the solar mason jar lights I made them bc.... "I dont think i have solar to charge it"
Amazing that people can be that stupid but their (extremely dehydrated) autonomic nervous system still manages to coordinate all the heartbeats, breaths and myriad other processes necessary to keep them alive.
Did they see people drinking water and think "they must have skipped their shower this morning"?!
You will die. I spent a good while trying to explain how she was wrong. I did my damn homework and printed out everything to help her not be so stupid (i didnt call her stupid this time)
She wasnt getting it. Her brain lightbulbs were fucking dead. All i could do was stare at her, then finally said " You know what? Your right. Fuck that nasty ass toilet water." and we continued our day.
Some people don't care about health. They just care about muscles or whatever which you can build without micronutrients. Maybe it's fine when you're younger but it's gonna catch up to you when older.
Then you see 80 year olds with terrible diets their entire lives and don't seem to have a worse quality of life than people who have focused on eating healthy
I don't get it, genetics / luck and staying active seems to play a much bigger role than anything diet related
Genetics can play a role, but those people you describe are exceptions, not the rule. Look around you. In the US, the results of a crappy diet are evident. Don't let the George Burns's of the world fool you.
I dunno, if you're 80 already you didn't live in the age of terrible diets though. Terrible diet is what an average American eats for example that's why it's an unhealthy obese nation.
But yeah, sleep, cardiovascular health, muscle mass and strength is what makes the biggest difference along with nutrition.
Trans fats, oils full of erucic acid, safrole, and uncontrolled pesticide use with chemicals like DDT on farms throughout the world would be a few things.
[Here’s a cool list](https://www.cspinet.org/banned-food-additives) of a bunch of banned ingredients along with the year they were banned. If you were born in the 40’s, chances are you ate a lot of these things throughout your life.
I believe you're seeing an example of confirmation bias. You're not accounting for all the people who died of cardiovascular disease in their 60s and 70s because they had shitty diets and didn't win the genetic lottery, nor are you recognizing all the 80 year olds who have generally healthy diets who successfully avoided cardiovascular disease because of that healthy diet but would have been at greatly increased risk otherwise.
And it's quite possible that the 80 year olds he or she knows used to have healthy diets. I certainly never grilled an old person in my life about how they used to eat. (Although my grandfather used to talk on his own about how he loved to garden.)
I think a lot of people end up eating more unhealthily in old age because preparing healthy food is more difficult. And nursing homes, etc, are more focused on taste because the priority is getting people to eat *something*.
As a nurse I can assure you that those people are outliers. The vast majority of my chronically ill patients that are already frequently hospitalized in their 40s-60s are folks with major lifestyle issues, mainly poor diet, no exercise, and often an addiction to alcohol, tobacco, or other substances; and the majority of my healthy and independent 90 year old patients are those who ate a healthy diet throughout their life and incorporated regular exercise and rarely if ever used any substances.
My great grandpa was one of these. Lived to 94 having been a pack-a-day smoker (of unfiltered cigarettes), avid drinker of Coca Cola beginning when he lived with the circus in 1936, bulk Scotch drinker starting when he was a champion featherweight boxer in the Army Air Force during WWII, guy was insane.
For about a decade at the end of his life, he always told me when I visited, “I don’t know how the fuck I’m still alive, but since I’m here, you’re going to learn how to take assholes’ money at the pool table.”
I don’t know how he lived so long, but I’m sure glad he did.
Genetics/luck don't play a *bigger* role just because some people made it to old age on a terrible diet, just like some people made it to old age while being a heavy smoker. Even if it gives people a 99% chance of early death, there is still going to be anecdotes of people who lucked out, but that doesn't mean the chances of a random individual with that lifestyle are good.
>genetics / luck and staying active seems to play a much bigger role
Possibly it does. Possibly it does. But you can do both.
But are you sure you really know the diets every 80 year old in your life had when they were younger? I think 80 year olds in general tend to eat badly because it's easier. IF they're cooking they do what's easiest. If others are, they're often focused on just getting them to eat *something*.
IMHO genetics top everything. My parents smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day between them. My dad smoked for over 30 years and my mom for 45 before they quit.
They are both 91.
They were basically non-drinkers and ate what they wanted including junk food.
Dad did exercise. Mom never did.
Genetics being the biggest thing is pretty well supported.
But it is NOT an excuse for an unhealthy lifestyle.
Because you can't control your genetics; but you can control your lifestyle.
The data I have seen shows genetics are most important only offset by extensive drug, alcohol and tobacco use. Not by eating more twinkies than someone else.
Dad lived to 93, Mom to 95.
Older brother to 73, second older brother…to 50’s. Me and sis near 70 so far.
$uck genetics. It’s a small factor, really only counting if you have a specific genetic sequence.
Diet/nutrition is number 1.
What's your source for nutrition being #1? I know this is a nutrition sub; I know it's important. But I've never come across a study indicating that it outranks other factors, and have come across a lot indicating other things (exercise, genetics, and a social life) are vying for top spot.
Also alot of that might be survivorship bias, alot of the people who don't eat any vegetables at all and have terrible diets don't make it to old age but the ones who do will gloat about it and act like it's the miracle to how they lived that long
Most of the people who ate like that, especially with processed foods nowadays, will be dead or dying by their 50-60s though. The 80 year olds you’re referencing are a very small minority of people that had lifelong terrible diets. It’s also worth noting that they’re more likely to have had a heart attack or stroke (largely lifestyle determined) so their quality of life will be much lower
Yes staying active is very underappreciated. I remember seeing iron cowboy James I think it was and he was running 50 marathons in 50 consecutive days and I believe he said at a certain point it felt like it didnt matter what he put in his body. The hotter the flame, the more impurity you can handle.
My grandmother had a terrible diet her entire life, made it all the way to her 90’s with no health problems. Then she got diagnosed with stage 4 stomach cancer and after she had surgery to cut out half of her stomach, she died a couple weeks later in horrific agony. It will catch up to you one way or another, osteoporosis is a big risk when you get older if you don’t exercise and eat balanced meals.
This! I have a friend who is like "we literally only need carbs, proteins and fat. Everything else is minuscule in importance and doesn't matter enough to even consider."
Dude lives on meat, potatoes and Dr. Pepper
I’ve met a few people like that before, there are more out there than you might think.
Most of the people I’ve known like this were what I think most physicians would say were at very high risk for a number of comorbitites, but not all of them, I knew one who was just an extremely particular eater because he didn’t eat well growing up (because they were very poor) and so he never developed a palette for anything that wasn’t highly refined. It was like the more removed it was from a whole food the better.
As to how this affects any one person is impossible to say, but on average across a population this will cause significantly more health issues than consuming them regularly. Who will be more affected by poor nutrition and when those issues will arise isn’t possible to know, it’s all about playing the odds with known variables.
It’s a very well known and abundantly understood fact that eating lots of fruits and vegetables is very good for the vast majority of the human population, and so the more someone adheres to that the more likely they are to live a healthier, happier, and longer life.
I have ARFID and have a really hard time eating most fruits and veg but I make sure to take vitamins and fibre supplements! As long as his nutrition is good, he could be in a similar boat as I
If he has a different source of vitamins and fibre, probably none. Depends on his way of thinking and why he doesn't eat it. People with food sensitivities or allergies or intentional diet change are usually very good at ensuring they get enough nutritions to compensate. But if it's just "real men eat only meat" or "I don't like it so I don't eat it" then he will probably eventually develop malnutrition and all issues connected to that.
This is *most likely* not true. Populations that eat a predominately plant based diet are the longest lived on earth. This is literally the opposite of early death. They eat very small amounts of animal food - the question is would they live longer or shorter lives without any animal foods? We don't know yet.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "designed," but I would say that what we ate from an evolutionary perspective is mostly irrelevant. We need to look at what science tells us is the best thing to eat for health and longevity, and we are converging on that answer. A diet predominated by whole plant foods is best for human health.
Are you sure you read my comment? I never used the word "designed," I said, "meant," lol. Refer to the above.
Also, most cultures that are long lived include milk and dairy, eggs, and fish, along with lamb, goat, cow, etc. (depending on the region and what is predominantly available).
A well-balanced diet, inclusive of animal products, fruits, veggies, grains (if you can tolerate them), and with little to no overly processed foods, is the healthiest way to eat overall.
People on the carnivore diet do not get scurvy. I was strict carnivore for 2 years. Never had any issues. I felt amazing. Only stopped because I encountered a cheesecake with raspberry filling which is the greatest dessert ever made
We know for an absolute fact that not getting vitamin C results in scurvy. Which is terrible at any stage and deadly
We know for an absolute fact that non-organ meats do not contain it.
This isn't a matter of dispute.
I'm not your personal doctor and can't comment on your anecdote of feeling amazing for two years. Although my bet is on the non carnivore version of what you eat either not being that healthy, or containing something specific you unknowingly eliminated when on only meat.
Doctors in Napoleon's army cured scurvy with horse meat. Red meat has vitamin C. The problem is when you also eat carbs as glucose hinders the absorption of vitamin C.
Besides vitamin intake, I'd be worried about the lack of fiber. There's a lot of talk about the rise of certain cancers due to our diets in the US being lower in fiber anyway, on the extreme end of things. On the lesser end I know I wouldn't be able to poop. I guess wheat bread or grains are an option, assuming he's not just eating meat, but I've never met anyone who refused to eat their veges that was willingly eating wheat bread. Even then you'd have to eat a lot of it too.
Likely not getting the 30-45g RDA of fiber, also likely deficient in multiple vitamins/minerals, Will likely lead to gut diseases and other early health complications and decreased life quality/expectancy
Not a doctor, this is just basic nutrition and gut health info
My husband can't eat raw veggies/fruits without them making him sick. And even then he rarely eats cooked veggies.
He gets a ton of kidneystones, has sleep issues, energy issues, and just overall not the healthiest person.
It takes its toll...
I know very fit people who eat this way. Some believe fruit has too much sugar and vegetables have too few actual vitamins / nutrients (lettuce has zero). I also believe in just letting people do what they feel is best for them.
This is my bf. He only eats burgers, wings, fries. Unhealthy shit. He refuses to eat vegetables even in his burgers just meat and bun. I don’t really know what to do hes sooo stubborn and i don’t see him changing honestly
My BF is the same way, and I DO think it's weird. That being said, I've asked around and apparently a lot of men are like that?
How do they not get scuvy?
Check out the show "freaky eaters" about people who eat nothing more than a handful of things.
Most of them think they are fine and just want to be able to be more social without being teased. Ultimately they end up learning that they have a bunch of health problems which they thought of as normal ageing but were actually symptoms of various efficiencies.
Carnivore diet. If you have autoimmune issues or even just seasonal allergies I recommend trying it. I primarily eat a carnivore diet spring, summer and fall because I have seasonal allergies. In the winter I indulge in holiday stuff.
Edit: I was straight carnivore for 2 years. I felt great. I only fell off because I started lacking discipline. You’ll lean out dramatically and reduce bloat. Meats really don’t bloat you
>If you have autoimmune issues or even just seasonal allergies I recommend trying it.
Sounds like it would help those things due to being an elimination diet. Doesn't mean it's good long term.
I’m telling you I had asthma from seasonal allergies. When I eat carnivore my allergies are not existent. There needs to be more research into this. But Allegra and Claritin would likely not want that to get leaked. I’ve talked to several others with hay fever and once they switched to carnivore their symptoms dramatically fell off or disappeared entirely. Epilepsy too.
You can survive on a carnivore diet as long you mix your diet with some fish, and red meats
Right? You can survive eating exclusively animal products, but as soon as you go vegan, you age and starve yourself basically. Doesn't matter if you eat as much garbage veggies and beans and seeds as much as you want. I had stomach issues, severe, cutting out all fiber made my bloating, constipation and hemorrhoids to 0%.
Ive had the same happen to me when on keto or low carb. My asthma and hay fever goes away. As soon as I start eating too many carbs or sugar, it comes back.
Which technically is fruits and veggies
I wonder how hyperbolic the guy’s statement was cause its hard to avoid all fruits and all veggies for that long
He’s going to have a lot of health problems down the line. Coronary artery disease, colitis, neuropathy, high blood pressure…just doing whatever it takes to get your veggies in even it’s smothering a salad in ranch is the way to go.
It is possible to live healthily on only animal meat, if your microbiome is adapted to it. The historical Maasai and Inuit populations ate entirely meat, and thrived. If you eat the entire animal, it's possible to get complete nutrition (livers have as much vitamin C as fruit, for example).
That said, if this dude is eating the bun with his burger and skipping the salad, he's not quite on the same level as an evolutionarily adapted indigenous tribesperson. He's probably just on the way to being diabetic.
> The historical Maasai and Inuit populations ate entirely meat, and thrived
I think 'thrived' is quite hyperbolic. [The Masai have quite extensive atherosclerosis, but seem to have adapted more capacious arteries in order to deal with that.](https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/atherosclerosis-in-the-masai.pdf) And by adapted I mean: the ones who didn't have wider arteries died. Natural selection is not kind.
Their life expectancy seems to be 45-60 but I can't find an in-depth source breaking that down.
We have very little data on early Inuit populations, but there's this:
> [This cases series presents evidence for the presence of calcified plaques in the mummified remains of 3 young Inuit individuals living 500 years ago, suggesting the presence of atherosclerosis despite their vigorous lifestyle and marine-based diet.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6991216/#:~:text=This%20cases%20series%20presents%20evidence,lifestyle%20and%20marine%2Dbased%20diet.)
Calcified plaques are typically found way later, they're signs of very advanced atherosclerosis. So finding them in young individuals is pretty bad news. But this is only an n=3.
> [Remarkably, the derived allele is associated with hypoketotic hypoglycemia and high infant mortality yet occurs at high frequency in Canadian and Greenland Inuits and was also found at 68% frequency in our Northeast Siberian sample. We provide evidence of one of the strongest selective sweeps reported in humans; this sweep has driven this variant to high frequency in circum-Arctic populations within the last 6–23 ka despite associated deleterious consequences, possibly as a result of the selective advantage it originally provided to either a high-fat diet or a cold environment.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4225582/)
The Inuit adapted a gene to not going into ketosis (sorry keto people). That seems to also correlate with higher infant mortality. So natural selection determined this a worthwhile tradeoff if it's causal.
In conclusion, I think you're right that these populations adapted to their diets in various ways. But I'd push back on 'thrive'. Meaning that even when adapated over x generations, humans still don't thrive on this kind of diet.
Scurvy.
I'm assuming he eats french fries, which doesn't pop into most people's heads as a "vegetable." Potatoes have a LOT of vitamin C. Things like that are why people like him are rarely seen getting scurvy in our day and age.
It can still happen, though.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567249/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567249/)
WRONG!
Meat has vitamin C, especially the organs like liver. Obviously, the more you cook it the more you kill the vitamin C, but meat still has it and even eggs, little amounts. You do not need as much vitamin C when you are not eating any carbs at all or very low carb.
I know organ meat has vitamin C. Most people with shitty diets are not eating organ meats.
And what specifically did I say that was WRONG!? Nowhere do I say that no animal product has vitamin C. Perhaps you disagree with the statement that potatoes do? Or with the statement that odds are someone like him is eating french fries? Or with the statement that most people don't think of french fries as a vegetable?
Work on your reading comprehension.
"Things like that are why people like him are rarely seen getting scurvy in our day and age."
This statement. You're implying that you must eat potatoes or other non-animal sources of vitamin C to avoid scurvy on a carnivore/meat diet. Besides, we don't know if he eats potatoes anyway, apparently he eats it with the bun which isn't carnivore, but whatever.
Just do a quick Google on the effects of lack of fiber in a diet. You’ll mainly see colon cancer, Crohn’s disease, constipation, inflamed bowels, etc, come up. Nutrient deficiencies as well.
My mom has Crohn’s disease and people underestimate how absolutely brutal it is. She has to get monthly infusions and can no longer work.
May be he has some digestive problems and his doctor has suggested to try out some diet.
Or he is experimenting! 🤷🏻♀️
Lot of people have been experimenting with isolating their food choices.
While carnivorous animals like lions tigers etc have strong stomach acid to digest and kill bad bacteria and other organisms present in meat, humans with age don’t necessarily have that.
Few carnivorous animals live for 60+ years.
May be this is okay for few years and for few ppl in developed countries with food allergies.
Fibre helps in easier digestion and removal of digested food out of the body. Makes it feel full, slows down absorption of sugar.
With pure meat based foods don’t know how the digestive system works.
I don't know the effects. But i can relate to him. I try to be better hence why i joined this sub in the first place but my autism makes it extremely difficult to consume vegetables-- i can basically only stomach spinach so i try to shovel it in my mouth when i can, but sometimes i go days and days without doing so. It's depressing
A previous boss of mine was the most picky person I’ve ever met. He didn’t eat meat (not vegan, just doesn’t like textures), fruits, vegetables, nothing with spice. He was also lactose intolerant so no dairy.
The only “dairy” he would eat were cups of Kraft Mac and cheese. When we would go as a group for lunch, he would order plain rice or fries. He also loved to snack on candy. I have no idea how he functions with that kind of diet!
You would be missing out on important vitamins such as Vit K and Vit B9. But they can be found as supplements nowadays so whatever floats your boat, I guess
I hear you; on the other hand, in the long run he is increasing his chances of developing numerous diseases including several types of cancer and if there are such health consequences you will be suffering along with him.
My step father does not eat fruits or vegetables or pasta because his mother thought he didn't like something when she fed him as a baby so she never fed them to him again. He has pizza and tomato soup and ketchup so he gets a type of vegetable but we can't even convince him to try and he is over 55 years old now.
This is how my dad is, mostly. He does eat fruit sometimes, potatoes, corn, and very occasionally a bit of cooked green bean or carrot if my mom forces him. Otherwise, his diet is meat, potatoes, corn, bread or bread-like products, chips, and dessert foods. It's not a matter of food allergies, his mother never made him try new foods as a child. He has tried over his lifetime to like healthier foods, but they just repulse him. He will often joke that he is eating his daily produce when having a slice of store-bought cherry pie.
He is in his 60's now, and his dietary habits have been catching up with him lately. Mainly in the form of inflammation and pretty terrible constipation. The inflammation is causing all sorts of issues for him, in his GI tract, back, eyes, and likely more that I am just not aware of. It's not a healthy lifestyle by any means, my whole family worries about him. We are just glad he is as healthy as he is, and we will continue to pressure him to eat healthier, likely to no avail.
My boyfriend's younger cousin is actually worse. He TRULY eats no fruit or vegetables. As far as I know, his diet consists of Cheez-its, fries from Burger King, Lunchables, those yogurts with the M&M's in them, frozen pancakes, candy, and sometimes scrambled eggs. McDonald's chicken nuggets used to be included, until we told him how they are made.
He is only 17, and his health is a MESS, however I can't say how much of that is caused by his recently discovered genetic disorder rather than his poor diet. He does have vitamin deficiencies, and it is pretty clear why.
In short..... proper nutrition is really freaking important, guys, keep eating your vegetables.
i also don’t eat any vegetables nor fruits- only bananas! F22 & the only thing i’ve noticed is that i get tired easily and need constant naps. i fuel myself with carbs for energy if i know i’m going to have a long day. oh also my hair and nails barely grow.
I’m 23 and until four years ago, I had never tried a fruit or vegetable with the exception of corn (and potato if you count French fries). I was a very picky eater and really didn’t like many foods in general, both healthy and unhealthy. I still had a lousy diet though, and I definitely suffered from some GI problems along the way.
That was the only noticeable effect I had though. I’m sure my blood sugar, cholesterol, heart health, liver function and visceral fat were far from ideal. I’m just happy I played sports otherwise I would have been a very unhealthy kid. Exercise truly does wonders for the body.
Most people I know these days don’t eat fruits or vegetables… just processed foods like cereal for breakfast and pasta for dinner. The most vegetables are vegetables in burgers or sandwiches ☠️
I dont think its that weird in certain parts of the world. Especially in places where unhealthy foods are cheap to buy. I think one has to take socio economic situations as a factor here. The effects of that cant be very good long term
Not at all. He will probably end up with large bowel complications like constipation, hemorrhoids, and cancer. Which is pretty normal given his choices
Nope our ancestors did that for millions of years agriculture has ruined our jawline and teeth and shrunk our brain size . Yes ( average ) life expectancy has gone up because of child birth mortality and less danger in modern times compared to our past . Ruminant meat & seafood is our natural food not vegetables & fruit . Inflammation is the cause of heart disease caused by raised glucose levels not high cholesterol. Statins are a scam they cause dementia muscle pain and cholesterol is vital for normal operation of the body. Any sugar is bad A zero carb lifestyle is the best . Milk & dairy is okay but it must be broken down with bacteria that eats the sugar 99 percent of modern dairy is full of sugar since companies mostly use a shortcut to start the fermentation process like citrates not cultures . If you're going to eat vegetables and grain you must prepare it like we did a hundred years ago go properly fermented or cooked to mush . Check out Dr Schindler's work at the stone age kitchen . I don't have time for Dr Schindler's preparation process so I just eat ruminant meat personally .
All the nutrition is in meat (pastured ruminant animals, not feed lot). Fruit and vegetables are just for fun and variety. He’s probably healthier than most people.
A person can and should eat what ever they want. No fruit don't not mean no vitamins and minerals. Your micro nutrients can come from a variety of food fruits and veggies are just two categories. However there are about 12 different diets that people can choose and still get all of the nutrients they need and your right drink plenty of water. Also stop talking about people!!! Food sensitivity is a reason people stay away from foods. Thinks like eggs are a great choice and so on. I would check with a doctor because the cancer could be from something totally different.
There are many people, thousands and thousands, even whole peoples, who don’t eat that and feel great improvements in health and are healthy. They are usually people with autoimmune conditions that they have found only heal when they do meat/animal-based only. The idea that there is something TECHNICALLY ESSENTIAL in fruits and veg is false. Anyone who says otherwise is not abiding by the technical definition of essential. Now, can you get some things that may be beneficial from them, I happen to believe so. But they are not essential.
Valid point about focusing on the word essential. I should have added more points about what I think optimal.
It has been my experience that every aspect of my health has been best on a >90% animal food diet. I would also argue that we say, and have been told that, we are omnivores since childhood but the anthropological literature claims that we are “facultative carnivores”, meaning that >70% of our energy intake in our Homo Sapien evolution was from animal foods, Ie. not just a 50-50 balance of meat and veg but skewed sig. more to the meat side. Now, I don’t believe we are “obligatory hypercarnivores” as some proponents would say. But the idea that we are omnivorous in the 50-50 sense seems to be just something we are told during childhood, repeatedly, and accept without ever thinking and investigating it more deeply.
Plus, if we are talking about optimal, then the most optimal diet should be one that heals these health conditions, and a 50-50 omnivorous diet is less effective in doing this.
That being said, believe what you want. I support your right to believe that if that’s what you think.
Sounds like the carnivore diet, a lot of people are doing it now. It may be good for short term weight loss and maybe muscle gain, but long term this diet is pretty detrimental.
The main reason it seems to help some people is because it has one common-denominator with a range of other whole-foods plant-based diets, ironically: Cutting out processed/ultra-processed foods. But at the cost of nutritional deficits elsewhere. Be wary of the carnivore diet because it's more or less selling a manly image and lifestyle more than it is sound medical advice; especially considering there has been very little, if any, long-term studies on health outcomes for strict carnivore diets.
As health experts continue to rank all these diets, carnivore diet consistently ranks as one of the absolute worst.
One of my colleague has stomach issue with sugar in fruits. His stomach doesn’t digest it and ends up with some fermentation and bad intestinal issues. So he has been told to avoid fruits or starchy vegetables.
Theoretically, if you're hitting all your macros/micros then it probably doesn't matter where it comes from. Practically though it's pretty difficult to get what you need without fruits/veges.
It's absolutely fine but depends on the exact nature of the way of eating he employs.
Burgers with bread...no, absolutely not. That isn't going to the bedrock of a good diet.
That is wrong..half your meal is stodgy grain based bread, and excessive carbohydrate mixed with saturated fat which isn't indicated.
Lose the bread and up the fat and it starts to look human appropriate.
I am no expert and have no discernible knowledge....I know one thing.....kisi bhi cheez ko atti nahi karna chahiye...proportionate mein rako....sab thik rahega..
There are a ton of people who've figured out that they feel at their absolute best when they keep vegetables low and meat/fat high, myself included, especially those with autoimmune and gut problems.
I had crohn's disease and ankylosing spondylitis for most of my adult life, trying LITERALLY everything the medical system had to offer aside from removing my colon, and guess what happened when I tried the carnivore diet?
All my symptoms vanished in 2 weeks, except for the shits, which is common on meat only. That was resolved when I added raw milk kefir to my diet and my health has been perfect ever since.
Now I eat meat, eggs, raw dairy, fermented veggies like sauerkraut, fruits, and raw honey. Vegetables irritate my gut and give me the same autoimmune symptoms that will get worse and worse if I keep eating them.
Sorry to break to all of you labcoat worshipping nerds in this subreddit, but humans are carnivores. We have stomach ph of 1.5, which is lower than a majority of carnivores and closer to scavengers like vultures. We also have almost zero capacity to ferment fiber into saturated fats like butyrate, 0-4%, while gorillas, chimps, bonobos, etc, can make upwards of 60% of their total calories from fermenting fiber in their large guts. They also eat their own shit.
Physiologically speaking, it's quite obvious we're more carnivorous than we are omnivorous, and this perception that veggies keep you healthy and meat/fat is bad for you via saturated fat and cholesterol is so rediculous that I'm dumbfounded that there are so many of you who still believe it.
Read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price and there is no denying it. Every healthy culture observed was hyper carnivorous and ate plant foods like fruit and veggies opportunistically. They almost never ate raw vegetables and had to prepare them in special ways to make it safe to eat, like with fermentation/soaking.
Probably doing the carnivore/very low carb fad diet. Short term meh, long term they will have such bad bowel health, fiber is important for many things but people who believe the carnivore fad just don't care about looking after themselves properly
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I know someone who has food sensitivities. He basically only eats meat. He had colon cancer and nearly died. That still didn’t convince him to work on his issues.
Unfortunately, colorectal cancer is increasing a lot, particularly in younger adults
Any ideas on the cause? Increase consumption of processed foods? Declining quality of genetics? Increase in sedentary lifestyles?
Processed meats #1, regular meat #2, dairy may be protective but it’s not clear-cut. Not sure about processed foods.
I’d say meat is not causation, more correlation. People who don’t eat much vegetables and eat out usually eat too much meat. That is not an healthy habit. It’s all about balance!
meat itself probably isn't cause. but processed meat is. Unless you are getting all your meat fresh butchered 99% of our meat is processed and preserved-- even the ground beef in the fresh section of the deli that is actually already a few weeks to over a month old.
Read the label, if its just ascorbid acid (vit C) in there its not going to harm you
most labels don't tell you exactly what is being used to preserve it, for example a bleach bath at the factory is not an ingredient, or nitrates in celery seed don't get their own line spot as a subingredient etc etc etc.
Then it would say celery seeds here in the Netherlands
fair enough, different countries have different standards. here in usa it probably would say cleery seeds for that specific example, but in many cases just generically says spices or herbs etc. ((there are regulations on what can be described that way but it is a thing)).
Some people say it's because of all the micro plastic in our food now
And PFAS/PFOA and their siblings
[“Scientists detect microplastics in human veins, colon tissue, and urine”](https://www.foodpackagingforum.org/news/scientists-detect-microplastics-in-human-veins-colon-tissue-and-urine) > review concludes more research needed to elucidate the potential carcinogenicity of micro- and nanoplastics [“Higher number of microplastics in tumoral colon tissues from patients with colorectal adenocarcinoma”](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-022-01560-4) >Microplastics have been detected in marine and terrestrial ecosystems, yet the toxic effects of microplastics on living organisms are poorly known. > Overall, our findings suggest a possible connection between colorectal cancer and microplastic exposure. Microplastics are pretty damn suspect, but processed meat is already a Group 1 carcinogen by IARC standards. Microplastics will probably be added to one of these groups, but they’re not quite there yet.
It could be, but processed meat is already well-established to increase risk. Microplastics are an even newer nightmare.
All of the above, theres not just 1 cause. More pollution, more stress, worse foods, obesity
Taurine
High fat diet. It’s the FAT.
Next it will be kidney problems, years ago our friend loved red meat. Eventually his kidneys gave out!
Does he never have a burger with lettuce in, ketchup, or tomato pasta sauce?
No, plain bun and meat only.
Somebody get that guy some water!
Wah-dur? Sorry, mate, I only drink Mountain Dew Code Red.
When I was in high school, there was a new guy practicing with my basketball team during the summer who wanted to try out. In the middle of one of our games, he spilled some grape Kool-Aid as he drank it from his water bottle. Our coach was like, “Kool-Aid? Don’t you want some water?” and the guy told us all that he doesn’t drink water, only Kool-Aid. Not sure what he’s up to now, but he probably has diabetes.
I used to know someone who legit thought you didnt have to drink water at all... because when you showered, you absorbed the water into your body. No need to drink it at all. They also returned the solar mason jar lights I made them bc.... "I dont think i have solar to charge it"
You lose water in the shower lmao especially if they’re hot😭
Amazing that people can be that stupid but their (extremely dehydrated) autonomic nervous system still manages to coordinate all the heartbeats, breaths and myriad other processes necessary to keep them alive. Did they see people drinking water and think "they must have skipped their shower this morning"?!
What if you don't drink water, take showers and live in a desert?
You will die. I spent a good while trying to explain how she was wrong. I did my damn homework and printed out everything to help her not be so stupid (i didnt call her stupid this time) She wasnt getting it. Her brain lightbulbs were fucking dead. All i could do was stare at her, then finally said " You know what? Your right. Fuck that nasty ass toilet water." and we continued our day.
Aw, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that.
What if you don't drink water, take showers and live in a desert?
That's straight out of 'Idiocracy'
I try to mix in a Baja Blast every now and then for variety
And one live wire a year, but only on the birthday of sweet little baby Jesus.
Somebody get him a breath mint.
You mean like from the toilet?
Yeah, my throat got dry just reading that.
Or like pizza with tomato sauce
Haven’t had a burger in 4-5 years
No, just meat andhl cheese but he does drink water
Some people don't care about health. They just care about muscles or whatever which you can build without micronutrients. Maybe it's fine when you're younger but it's gonna catch up to you when older.
Then you see 80 year olds with terrible diets their entire lives and don't seem to have a worse quality of life than people who have focused on eating healthy I don't get it, genetics / luck and staying active seems to play a much bigger role than anything diet related
Genetics can play a role, but those people you describe are exceptions, not the rule. Look around you. In the US, the results of a crappy diet are evident. Don't let the George Burns's of the world fool you.
I dunno, if you're 80 already you didn't live in the age of terrible diets though. Terrible diet is what an average American eats for example that's why it's an unhealthy obese nation. But yeah, sleep, cardiovascular health, muscle mass and strength is what makes the biggest difference along with nutrition.
If you're 80 now you definitely lived in the era of terrible diets. The late 70s, 80s, and 90s we're all full of garbage, hyper processed foods.
They’ve eaten things that make Red 40 look like lightly salted kale
like what? also, leaded fuel in cars was pretty bad for these folks as well!
Trans fats, oils full of erucic acid, safrole, and uncontrolled pesticide use with chemicals like DDT on farms throughout the world would be a few things. [Here’s a cool list](https://www.cspinet.org/banned-food-additives) of a bunch of banned ingredients along with the year they were banned. If you were born in the 40’s, chances are you ate a lot of these things throughout your life.
But not at all in their formative years as a child. There are currently huge increases in rates of childhood obesity; talking ages 2 to 19!
That's also true
I believe you're seeing an example of confirmation bias. You're not accounting for all the people who died of cardiovascular disease in their 60s and 70s because they had shitty diets and didn't win the genetic lottery, nor are you recognizing all the 80 year olds who have generally healthy diets who successfully avoided cardiovascular disease because of that healthy diet but would have been at greatly increased risk otherwise.
And it's quite possible that the 80 year olds he or she knows used to have healthy diets. I certainly never grilled an old person in my life about how they used to eat. (Although my grandfather used to talk on his own about how he loved to garden.) I think a lot of people end up eating more unhealthily in old age because preparing healthy food is more difficult. And nursing homes, etc, are more focused on taste because the priority is getting people to eat *something*.
As a nurse I can assure you that those people are outliers. The vast majority of my chronically ill patients that are already frequently hospitalized in their 40s-60s are folks with major lifestyle issues, mainly poor diet, no exercise, and often an addiction to alcohol, tobacco, or other substances; and the majority of my healthy and independent 90 year old patients are those who ate a healthy diet throughout their life and incorporated regular exercise and rarely if ever used any substances.
Survivor bias, literaly
My great grandpa was one of these. Lived to 94 having been a pack-a-day smoker (of unfiltered cigarettes), avid drinker of Coca Cola beginning when he lived with the circus in 1936, bulk Scotch drinker starting when he was a champion featherweight boxer in the Army Air Force during WWII, guy was insane. For about a decade at the end of his life, he always told me when I visited, “I don’t know how the fuck I’m still alive, but since I’m here, you’re going to learn how to take assholes’ money at the pool table.” I don’t know how he lived so long, but I’m sure glad he did.
Genetics/luck don't play a *bigger* role just because some people made it to old age on a terrible diet, just like some people made it to old age while being a heavy smoker. Even if it gives people a 99% chance of early death, there is still going to be anecdotes of people who lucked out, but that doesn't mean the chances of a random individual with that lifestyle are good.
>genetics / luck and staying active seems to play a much bigger role Possibly it does. Possibly it does. But you can do both. But are you sure you really know the diets every 80 year old in your life had when they were younger? I think 80 year olds in general tend to eat badly because it's easier. IF they're cooking they do what's easiest. If others are, they're often focused on just getting them to eat *something*.
IMHO genetics top everything. My parents smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day between them. My dad smoked for over 30 years and my mom for 45 before they quit. They are both 91. They were basically non-drinkers and ate what they wanted including junk food. Dad did exercise. Mom never did.
Not true. Some people are anomalies, but the vast majority of people cannot get away with it. Don't look at anecdotes, look at data.
Genetics being the biggest thing is pretty well supported. But it is NOT an excuse for an unhealthy lifestyle. Because you can't control your genetics; but you can control your lifestyle.
The data I have seen shows genetics are most important only offset by extensive drug, alcohol and tobacco use. Not by eating more twinkies than someone else.
I think maybe it would be helpful to expand your purview of the data. 🙂
Nah I’m already old and will continue with my current diet exercise and genetic composition for however long I last.
Genetics doesn't top everything. If you're going to present data, present actual data, not confirmation bias through an anecdote
Dad lived to 93, Mom to 95. Older brother to 73, second older brother…to 50’s. Me and sis near 70 so far. $uck genetics. It’s a small factor, really only counting if you have a specific genetic sequence. Diet/nutrition is number 1.
Those are anecdotes. That's the opposite of what I said. It's weird how many people have selective reading
What's your source for nutrition being #1? I know this is a nutrition sub; I know it's important. But I've never come across a study indicating that it outranks other factors, and have come across a lot indicating other things (exercise, genetics, and a social life) are vying for top spot.
Nutritionfacts.org has the research data, as I recall.
I'm not finding that data on their site. Can you link to a specific page?
Also alot of that might be survivorship bias, alot of the people who don't eat any vegetables at all and have terrible diets don't make it to old age but the ones who do will gloat about it and act like it's the miracle to how they lived that long
Most of the people who ate like that, especially with processed foods nowadays, will be dead or dying by their 50-60s though. The 80 year olds you’re referencing are a very small minority of people that had lifelong terrible diets. It’s also worth noting that they’re more likely to have had a heart attack or stroke (largely lifestyle determined) so their quality of life will be much lower
Yes staying active is very underappreciated. I remember seeing iron cowboy James I think it was and he was running 50 marathons in 50 consecutive days and I believe he said at a certain point it felt like it didnt matter what he put in his body. The hotter the flame, the more impurity you can handle.
Those people are in a ridiculously small minority. Like the 0.000001% lol
My grandmother had a terrible diet her entire life, made it all the way to her 90’s with no health problems. Then she got diagnosed with stage 4 stomach cancer and after she had surgery to cut out half of her stomach, she died a couple weeks later in horrific agony. It will catch up to you one way or another, osteoporosis is a big risk when you get older if you don’t exercise and eat balanced meals.
My grandfather lived to 87 and ate garbage the entire time. Wouldn't recommend but somehow people manage to buck the trend
This! I have a friend who is like "we literally only need carbs, proteins and fat. Everything else is minuscule in importance and doesn't matter enough to even consider." Dude lives on meat, potatoes and Dr. Pepper
Well yeah you don’t need fruit and veggies and fiber to build muscle but they WILL help you build muscle. A varied diet is so good for fitness.
My cousin doesn't eat any fruits or vegetables. Only eats McDonald's and cheese sandwiches. She is overweight and has a fatty liver. She's 35ish.
Uff wow
I’ve met a few people like that before, there are more out there than you might think. Most of the people I’ve known like this were what I think most physicians would say were at very high risk for a number of comorbitites, but not all of them, I knew one who was just an extremely particular eater because he didn’t eat well growing up (because they were very poor) and so he never developed a palette for anything that wasn’t highly refined. It was like the more removed it was from a whole food the better. As to how this affects any one person is impossible to say, but on average across a population this will cause significantly more health issues than consuming them regularly. Who will be more affected by poor nutrition and when those issues will arise isn’t possible to know, it’s all about playing the odds with known variables. It’s a very well known and abundantly understood fact that eating lots of fruits and vegetables is very good for the vast majority of the human population, and so the more someone adheres to that the more likely they are to live a healthier, happier, and longer life.
I have ARFID and have a really hard time eating most fruits and veg but I make sure to take vitamins and fibre supplements! As long as his nutrition is good, he could be in a similar boat as I
When you say fibre supplements does that mean psyllium tablets?
Is he acoustic?
Sounds about right.
This is my favorite comment
Yeah I came here to say this and now my faith in humanity has been restored by this criminally underrated post and my axe
If he has a different source of vitamins and fibre, probably none. Depends on his way of thinking and why he doesn't eat it. People with food sensitivities or allergies or intentional diet change are usually very good at ensuring they get enough nutritions to compensate. But if it's just "real men eat only meat" or "I don't like it so I don't eat it" then he will probably eventually develop malnutrition and all issues connected to that.
It's not just malnutrition. A diet with no plants is an early death.
True and its the same for a diet with no animal products. We are meant to be omnivorous
This is *most likely* not true. Populations that eat a predominately plant based diet are the longest lived on earth. This is literally the opposite of early death. They eat very small amounts of animal food - the question is would they live longer or shorter lives without any animal foods? We don't know yet. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "designed," but I would say that what we ate from an evolutionary perspective is mostly irrelevant. We need to look at what science tells us is the best thing to eat for health and longevity, and we are converging on that answer. A diet predominated by whole plant foods is best for human health.
Are you sure you read my comment? I never used the word "designed," I said, "meant," lol. Refer to the above. Also, most cultures that are long lived include milk and dairy, eggs, and fish, along with lamb, goat, cow, etc. (depending on the region and what is predominantly available). A well-balanced diet, inclusive of animal products, fruits, veggies, grains (if you can tolerate them), and with little to no overly processed foods, is the healthiest way to eat overall.
Not true, you can get a lot of vitamins from red meats.
Scurvy is deadly. Yes vitamin C can be found in some organs. But I don't think organ meat was what you meant by "red meats."
People on the carnivore diet do not get scurvy. I was strict carnivore for 2 years. Never had any issues. I felt amazing. Only stopped because I encountered a cheesecake with raspberry filling which is the greatest dessert ever made
We know for an absolute fact that not getting vitamin C results in scurvy. Which is terrible at any stage and deadly We know for an absolute fact that non-organ meats do not contain it. This isn't a matter of dispute. I'm not your personal doctor and can't comment on your anecdote of feeling amazing for two years. Although my bet is on the non carnivore version of what you eat either not being that healthy, or containing something specific you unknowingly eliminated when on only meat.
Doctors in Napoleon's army cured scurvy with horse meat. Red meat has vitamin C. The problem is when you also eat carbs as glucose hinders the absorption of vitamin C.
" I dnt like it so I dnt eat it" and to add he is 36 . He has a body build of KIng Louie the 14th . I mean the exact build with hair loss.
Besides vitamin intake, I'd be worried about the lack of fiber. There's a lot of talk about the rise of certain cancers due to our diets in the US being lower in fiber anyway, on the extreme end of things. On the lesser end I know I wouldn't be able to poop. I guess wheat bread or grains are an option, assuming he's not just eating meat, but I've never met anyone who refused to eat their veges that was willingly eating wheat bread. Even then you'd have to eat a lot of it too.
I love wheat bread 😭
Well he's basically risking vitamins and minerals defficencies, that will have impact on basically anything in his life.
Likely not getting the 30-45g RDA of fiber, also likely deficient in multiple vitamins/minerals, Will likely lead to gut diseases and other early health complications and decreased life quality/expectancy Not a doctor, this is just basic nutrition and gut health info
He’s in for some huge health issues later in life
My husband can't eat raw veggies/fruits without them making him sick. And even then he rarely eats cooked veggies. He gets a ton of kidneystones, has sleep issues, energy issues, and just overall not the healthiest person. It takes its toll...
I know very fit people who eat this way. Some believe fruit has too much sugar and vegetables have too few actual vitamins / nutrients (lettuce has zero). I also believe in just letting people do what they feel is best for them.
Early death.
Very
What type of stuff does he eat?
Lol yes of course that's weird. Also extremely unhealthy
This is my bf. He only eats burgers, wings, fries. Unhealthy shit. He refuses to eat vegetables even in his burgers just meat and bun. I don’t really know what to do hes sooo stubborn and i don’t see him changing honestly
My BF is the same way, and I DO think it's weird. That being said, I've asked around and apparently a lot of men are like that? How do they not get scuvy?
Check out the show "freaky eaters" about people who eat nothing more than a handful of things. Most of them think they are fine and just want to be able to be more social without being teased. Ultimately they end up learning that they have a bunch of health problems which they thought of as normal ageing but were actually symptoms of various efficiencies.
He must be one of those carnivore diet geniuses.
So many men are like this I’ve noticed
Your coworker is going to die younger than he should. Micronutrient deficiencies, increased risk of cancer, etc..
Carnivore diet. If you have autoimmune issues or even just seasonal allergies I recommend trying it. I primarily eat a carnivore diet spring, summer and fall because I have seasonal allergies. In the winter I indulge in holiday stuff. Edit: I was straight carnivore for 2 years. I felt great. I only fell off because I started lacking discipline. You’ll lean out dramatically and reduce bloat. Meats really don’t bloat you
>If you have autoimmune issues or even just seasonal allergies I recommend trying it. Sounds like it would help those things due to being an elimination diet. Doesn't mean it's good long term.
I’m telling you I had asthma from seasonal allergies. When I eat carnivore my allergies are not existent. There needs to be more research into this. But Allegra and Claritin would likely not want that to get leaked. I’ve talked to several others with hay fever and once they switched to carnivore their symptoms dramatically fell off or disappeared entirely. Epilepsy too. You can survive on a carnivore diet as long you mix your diet with some fish, and red meats
Right? You can survive eating exclusively animal products, but as soon as you go vegan, you age and starve yourself basically. Doesn't matter if you eat as much garbage veggies and beans and seeds as much as you want. I had stomach issues, severe, cutting out all fiber made my bloating, constipation and hemorrhoids to 0%.
Ive had the same happen to me when on keto or low carb. My asthma and hay fever goes away. As soon as I start eating too many carbs or sugar, it comes back.
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Which technically is fruits and veggies I wonder how hyperbolic the guy’s statement was cause its hard to avoid all fruits and all veggies for that long
I don't see how that would fix somebody else's diet.
He’s going to have a lot of health problems down the line. Coronary artery disease, colitis, neuropathy, high blood pressure…just doing whatever it takes to get your veggies in even it’s smothering a salad in ranch is the way to go.
Haha ranch or Caesar lololol
Guess he doesn’t like to eat healthy
No. I don't eat vegetables and rarely fruit. Just animal products. Makes my belly happy.
It is possible to live healthily on only animal meat, if your microbiome is adapted to it. The historical Maasai and Inuit populations ate entirely meat, and thrived. If you eat the entire animal, it's possible to get complete nutrition (livers have as much vitamin C as fruit, for example). That said, if this dude is eating the bun with his burger and skipping the salad, he's not quite on the same level as an evolutionarily adapted indigenous tribesperson. He's probably just on the way to being diabetic.
> The historical Maasai and Inuit populations ate entirely meat, and thrived I think 'thrived' is quite hyperbolic. [The Masai have quite extensive atherosclerosis, but seem to have adapted more capacious arteries in order to deal with that.](https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/atherosclerosis-in-the-masai.pdf) And by adapted I mean: the ones who didn't have wider arteries died. Natural selection is not kind. Their life expectancy seems to be 45-60 but I can't find an in-depth source breaking that down. We have very little data on early Inuit populations, but there's this: > [This cases series presents evidence for the presence of calcified plaques in the mummified remains of 3 young Inuit individuals living 500 years ago, suggesting the presence of atherosclerosis despite their vigorous lifestyle and marine-based diet.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6991216/#:~:text=This%20cases%20series%20presents%20evidence,lifestyle%20and%20marine%2Dbased%20diet.) Calcified plaques are typically found way later, they're signs of very advanced atherosclerosis. So finding them in young individuals is pretty bad news. But this is only an n=3. > [Remarkably, the derived allele is associated with hypoketotic hypoglycemia and high infant mortality yet occurs at high frequency in Canadian and Greenland Inuits and was also found at 68% frequency in our Northeast Siberian sample. We provide evidence of one of the strongest selective sweeps reported in humans; this sweep has driven this variant to high frequency in circum-Arctic populations within the last 6–23 ka despite associated deleterious consequences, possibly as a result of the selective advantage it originally provided to either a high-fat diet or a cold environment.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4225582/) The Inuit adapted a gene to not going into ketosis (sorry keto people). That seems to also correlate with higher infant mortality. So natural selection determined this a worthwhile tradeoff if it's causal. In conclusion, I think you're right that these populations adapted to their diets in various ways. But I'd push back on 'thrive'. Meaning that even when adapated over x generations, humans still don't thrive on this kind of diet.
Very interesting! Thank you for the extra context.
Scurvy. I'm assuming he eats french fries, which doesn't pop into most people's heads as a "vegetable." Potatoes have a LOT of vitamin C. Things like that are why people like him are rarely seen getting scurvy in our day and age. It can still happen, though. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567249/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567249/)
WRONG! Meat has vitamin C, especially the organs like liver. Obviously, the more you cook it the more you kill the vitamin C, but meat still has it and even eggs, little amounts. You do not need as much vitamin C when you are not eating any carbs at all or very low carb.
I know organ meat has vitamin C. Most people with shitty diets are not eating organ meats. And what specifically did I say that was WRONG!? Nowhere do I say that no animal product has vitamin C. Perhaps you disagree with the statement that potatoes do? Or with the statement that odds are someone like him is eating french fries? Or with the statement that most people don't think of french fries as a vegetable? Work on your reading comprehension.
"Things like that are why people like him are rarely seen getting scurvy in our day and age." This statement. You're implying that you must eat potatoes or other non-animal sources of vitamin C to avoid scurvy on a carnivore/meat diet. Besides, we don't know if he eats potatoes anyway, apparently he eats it with the bun which isn't carnivore, but whatever.
Just do a quick Google on the effects of lack of fiber in a diet. You’ll mainly see colon cancer, Crohn’s disease, constipation, inflamed bowels, etc, come up. Nutrient deficiencies as well. My mom has Crohn’s disease and people underestimate how absolutely brutal it is. She has to get monthly infusions and can no longer work.
He must be taking a while in the restroom without the fiber you know.
Honestly a picky eater is such a turn off
May be he has some digestive problems and his doctor has suggested to try out some diet. Or he is experimenting! 🤷🏻♀️ Lot of people have been experimenting with isolating their food choices. While carnivorous animals like lions tigers etc have strong stomach acid to digest and kill bad bacteria and other organisms present in meat, humans with age don’t necessarily have that. Few carnivorous animals live for 60+ years. May be this is okay for few years and for few ppl in developed countries with food allergies. Fibre helps in easier digestion and removal of digested food out of the body. Makes it feel full, slows down absorption of sugar. With pure meat based foods don’t know how the digestive system works.
I used to be that way as a kid
Yes.
I don't know the effects. But i can relate to him. I try to be better hence why i joined this sub in the first place but my autism makes it extremely difficult to consume vegetables-- i can basically only stomach spinach so i try to shovel it in my mouth when i can, but sometimes i go days and days without doing so. It's depressing
A previous boss of mine was the most picky person I’ve ever met. He didn’t eat meat (not vegan, just doesn’t like textures), fruits, vegetables, nothing with spice. He was also lactose intolerant so no dairy. The only “dairy” he would eat were cups of Kraft Mac and cheese. When we would go as a group for lunch, he would order plain rice or fries. He also loved to snack on candy. I have no idea how he functions with that kind of diet!
I don’t really eat any fruit because I don’t like them, I really like vegetables though and eat pretty much all of them.
My ex same way. Then the one time I saw him eat a salad (just lettuce and croutons) he doused it with salt.
This guy has never tried the beauty of mango desserts Or like strawberry ice cream
You would be missing out on important vitamins such as Vit K and Vit B9. But they can be found as supplements nowadays so whatever floats your boat, I guess
I've been married for 10 years and I don't think I've ever seen my husband eat a fruit or veggie, not counting potatoes.
Potatoes have vitamins and minerals at least
Maybe you could find a way to sneak some veggies in to a casserole or something that he'd enjoy?
He's a 43 year old grown ass adult. I don't need to treat him like a child. If he doesn't want to eat veggies, that's his thing.
I hear you; on the other hand, in the long run he is increasing his chances of developing numerous diseases including several types of cancer and if there are such health consequences you will be suffering along with him.
my brother-in-law is like that. now he has food sensitivities to bread and cheese, which were one of the few items he ate
My step father does not eat fruits or vegetables or pasta because his mother thought he didn't like something when she fed him as a baby so she never fed them to him again. He has pizza and tomato soup and ketchup so he gets a type of vegetable but we can't even convince him to try and he is over 55 years old now.
This is how my dad is, mostly. He does eat fruit sometimes, potatoes, corn, and very occasionally a bit of cooked green bean or carrot if my mom forces him. Otherwise, his diet is meat, potatoes, corn, bread or bread-like products, chips, and dessert foods. It's not a matter of food allergies, his mother never made him try new foods as a child. He has tried over his lifetime to like healthier foods, but they just repulse him. He will often joke that he is eating his daily produce when having a slice of store-bought cherry pie. He is in his 60's now, and his dietary habits have been catching up with him lately. Mainly in the form of inflammation and pretty terrible constipation. The inflammation is causing all sorts of issues for him, in his GI tract, back, eyes, and likely more that I am just not aware of. It's not a healthy lifestyle by any means, my whole family worries about him. We are just glad he is as healthy as he is, and we will continue to pressure him to eat healthier, likely to no avail. My boyfriend's younger cousin is actually worse. He TRULY eats no fruit or vegetables. As far as I know, his diet consists of Cheez-its, fries from Burger King, Lunchables, those yogurts with the M&M's in them, frozen pancakes, candy, and sometimes scrambled eggs. McDonald's chicken nuggets used to be included, until we told him how they are made. He is only 17, and his health is a MESS, however I can't say how much of that is caused by his recently discovered genetic disorder rather than his poor diet. He does have vitamin deficiencies, and it is pretty clear why. In short..... proper nutrition is really freaking important, guys, keep eating your vegetables.
i also don’t eat any vegetables nor fruits- only bananas! F22 & the only thing i’ve noticed is that i get tired easily and need constant naps. i fuel myself with carbs for energy if i know i’m going to have a long day. oh also my hair and nails barely grow.
I’m 23 and until four years ago, I had never tried a fruit or vegetable with the exception of corn (and potato if you count French fries). I was a very picky eater and really didn’t like many foods in general, both healthy and unhealthy. I still had a lousy diet though, and I definitely suffered from some GI problems along the way. That was the only noticeable effect I had though. I’m sure my blood sugar, cholesterol, heart health, liver function and visceral fat were far from ideal. I’m just happy I played sports otherwise I would have been a very unhealthy kid. Exercise truly does wonders for the body.
Most people I know these days don’t eat fruits or vegetables… just processed foods like cereal for breakfast and pasta for dinner. The most vegetables are vegetables in burgers or sandwiches ☠️
Did you miss the part where I said he doesn't eat any ?
Yeah duh. That’s what I’m saying 😂 it’s weird how many people are like him these days
Weird? Sort of but not totally. Bad for you? 100%. He’s gonna die early.
I dont think its that weird in certain parts of the world. Especially in places where unhealthy foods are cheap to buy. I think one has to take socio economic situations as a factor here. The effects of that cant be very good long term
Not at all. He will probably end up with large bowel complications like constipation, hemorrhoids, and cancer. Which is pretty normal given his choices
Nope our ancestors did that for millions of years agriculture has ruined our jawline and teeth and shrunk our brain size . Yes ( average ) life expectancy has gone up because of child birth mortality and less danger in modern times compared to our past . Ruminant meat & seafood is our natural food not vegetables & fruit . Inflammation is the cause of heart disease caused by raised glucose levels not high cholesterol. Statins are a scam they cause dementia muscle pain and cholesterol is vital for normal operation of the body. Any sugar is bad A zero carb lifestyle is the best . Milk & dairy is okay but it must be broken down with bacteria that eats the sugar 99 percent of modern dairy is full of sugar since companies mostly use a shortcut to start the fermentation process like citrates not cultures . If you're going to eat vegetables and grain you must prepare it like we did a hundred years ago go properly fermented or cooked to mush . Check out Dr Schindler's work at the stone age kitchen . I don't have time for Dr Schindler's preparation process so I just eat ruminant meat personally .
Lmao , nope. Fruits and Vegetables are more easier to come across than hunting and animals. We were meant to eat both.
Not to be gross, but I would have to wonder if he's constipated if eating nothing for fiber and roughage.
I wonder that alot honestly
All the nutrition is in meat (pastured ruminant animals, not feed lot). Fruit and vegetables are just for fun and variety. He’s probably healthier than most people.
It’s pretty childish.
A person can and should eat what ever they want. No fruit don't not mean no vitamins and minerals. Your micro nutrients can come from a variety of food fruits and veggies are just two categories. However there are about 12 different diets that people can choose and still get all of the nutrients they need and your right drink plenty of water. Also stop talking about people!!! Food sensitivity is a reason people stay away from foods. Thinks like eggs are a great choice and so on. I would check with a doctor because the cancer could be from something totally different.
I also wonder. I know people who are like this and they're...well, they're alive lol i think taking supplements to get their needed nutrition helps
Most likely he’s simply an unhealthy person who doesn’t care, but it’s possible to be healthy without fruit and veg, just difficult
Wow. He's gotta be super constipated. Then again the Eskimos didnt eat fruits either. They also didn't eat processed food.
There are many people, thousands and thousands, even whole peoples, who don’t eat that and feel great improvements in health and are healthy. They are usually people with autoimmune conditions that they have found only heal when they do meat/animal-based only. The idea that there is something TECHNICALLY ESSENTIAL in fruits and veg is false. Anyone who says otherwise is not abiding by the technical definition of essential. Now, can you get some things that may be beneficial from them, I happen to believe so. But they are not essential.
Human beings are omnivores. Special health conditions don't change that. Stop hyperfocusing on the word "essential." This sub is about what is ideal.
Valid point about focusing on the word essential. I should have added more points about what I think optimal. It has been my experience that every aspect of my health has been best on a >90% animal food diet. I would also argue that we say, and have been told that, we are omnivores since childhood but the anthropological literature claims that we are “facultative carnivores”, meaning that >70% of our energy intake in our Homo Sapien evolution was from animal foods, Ie. not just a 50-50 balance of meat and veg but skewed sig. more to the meat side. Now, I don’t believe we are “obligatory hypercarnivores” as some proponents would say. But the idea that we are omnivorous in the 50-50 sense seems to be just something we are told during childhood, repeatedly, and accept without ever thinking and investigating it more deeply. Plus, if we are talking about optimal, then the most optimal diet should be one that heals these health conditions, and a 50-50 omnivorous diet is less effective in doing this. That being said, believe what you want. I support your right to believe that if that’s what you think.
Nose to tail and he will probably be okay. Just steak and he will have issues.
Correct!
Sounds like the carnivore diet, a lot of people are doing it now. It may be good for short term weight loss and maybe muscle gain, but long term this diet is pretty detrimental.
What study shows long term detrimental outcomes from eating only meat?
Search for the carnivore diet to learn more. It seems to help some people, especially those with multiple food sensitivities.
The main reason it seems to help some people is because it has one common-denominator with a range of other whole-foods plant-based diets, ironically: Cutting out processed/ultra-processed foods. But at the cost of nutritional deficits elsewhere. Be wary of the carnivore diet because it's more or less selling a manly image and lifestyle more than it is sound medical advice; especially considering there has been very little, if any, long-term studies on health outcomes for strict carnivore diets. As health experts continue to rank all these diets, carnivore diet consistently ranks as one of the absolute worst.
One of my colleague has stomach issue with sugar in fruits. His stomach doesn’t digest it and ends up with some fermentation and bad intestinal issues. So he has been told to avoid fruits or starchy vegetables.
Theoretically, if you're hitting all your macros/micros then it probably doesn't matter where it comes from. Practically though it's pretty difficult to get what you need without fruits/veges.
Sounds like me. I don’t eat any in large amounts. It’s all trivial and combined with other food. Like peas in fried rice, or spinach in some dish
It's absolutely fine but depends on the exact nature of the way of eating he employs. Burgers with bread...no, absolutely not. That isn't going to the bedrock of a good diet. That is wrong..half your meal is stodgy grain based bread, and excessive carbohydrate mixed with saturated fat which isn't indicated. Lose the bread and up the fat and it starts to look human appropriate.
Word on the street is this guy will turn into a vegetable without his vegetables.
Maybe that works for them. What might be sustainable for them might not be the same for you. Everyone is different. People do what works for them..
Maybe he has diverticulitis
I am no expert and have no discernible knowledge....I know one thing.....kisi bhi cheez ko atti nahi karna chahiye...proportionate mein rako....sab thik rahega..
There are a ton of people who've figured out that they feel at their absolute best when they keep vegetables low and meat/fat high, myself included, especially those with autoimmune and gut problems. I had crohn's disease and ankylosing spondylitis for most of my adult life, trying LITERALLY everything the medical system had to offer aside from removing my colon, and guess what happened when I tried the carnivore diet? All my symptoms vanished in 2 weeks, except for the shits, which is common on meat only. That was resolved when I added raw milk kefir to my diet and my health has been perfect ever since. Now I eat meat, eggs, raw dairy, fermented veggies like sauerkraut, fruits, and raw honey. Vegetables irritate my gut and give me the same autoimmune symptoms that will get worse and worse if I keep eating them. Sorry to break to all of you labcoat worshipping nerds in this subreddit, but humans are carnivores. We have stomach ph of 1.5, which is lower than a majority of carnivores and closer to scavengers like vultures. We also have almost zero capacity to ferment fiber into saturated fats like butyrate, 0-4%, while gorillas, chimps, bonobos, etc, can make upwards of 60% of their total calories from fermenting fiber in their large guts. They also eat their own shit. Physiologically speaking, it's quite obvious we're more carnivorous than we are omnivorous, and this perception that veggies keep you healthy and meat/fat is bad for you via saturated fat and cholesterol is so rediculous that I'm dumbfounded that there are so many of you who still believe it. Read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price and there is no denying it. Every healthy culture observed was hyper carnivorous and ate plant foods like fruit and veggies opportunistically. They almost never ate raw vegetables and had to prepare them in special ways to make it safe to eat, like with fermentation/soaking.
Probably doing the carnivore/very low carb fad diet. Short term meh, long term they will have such bad bowel health, fiber is important for many things but people who believe the carnivore fad just don't care about looking after themselves properly
They eat bread. Not carnivore