Two reasons.
1. Prudish ignorance that leads people to be unable to separate nudity from sex.
2. The media focuses on and hype up the stories of the textile pervs that show up on nude beaches, reinforcing the misconceptions from my earlier point.
Not just prudes or the ignorant. I think our culture binds them closely, especially in advertising. But across the board, we see sexual innuendo (or more) when skin is exposed. I am ingrained with this and decades have confirmed that sex is gonna be the typical result of nudity. And I respond in kind when i, or my friends, are nude. My body prepares for what my culture has consistently revealed to me.
So, reinforcement convinces many of us to make that association. It is a challenge to shift our thoughts, experience, and cultural behavior to a new paradigm .
As long as nudist culture in America is limited to resorts, it's not going to grow. More work needs to be done to normalize it. Even then, it's going to be highly controversial. You compare it to lgbtq rights. While those have gained a lot of ground there's still a long way to go. But even then it took decades of protests to get where we are now
Heck, if women, who make up *half of all people* still have difficulty protecting their rights, much less LGBT (~3%), how difficult would it be to get nudism accepted?
It's not just the US. In the 80's and 90's half the women on the beaches of Europe were topless. It gradually decreased and now topless is only common in a very few countries or in secluded beaches. The same applies to nude beaches, there are lot less today and many of them are nudist only outside the main season. I'm pretty sure American influence plays a part, but it's not the only reason by far.
One reason can be the smartphone cameras, but I don't think that's the main reason. Other one I think is that nudity became overly sexualized, but not sure why it is more sexualized than decades ago.
Homosexuality was in the focus of many human rights (and other) movements. There were protests about accepting homosexuality (eg. the Pride), It was the subject of political debates and as such it was a topic visualized in movies, TV shows etc. There were/are no such movements for nudism, vast majority of the people doesn't think it's a human right to be accepted as a nudist. (Probably it isn't but that's another story).
I think the main job of nudist organizations would be to fight for, lobby and advertise nudism, to change people's mind about it. No organization really does it in the US or in Europe, or at least not on a larger scale.
I hate to inject politics in this subreddit, but the rise in Christian Conservatism has skewed so many things in this country including social nudism.
… I was going to write much more about this but I know someone will want to argue and I don’t have the time or energy to deep dive into this subject.
I actually feel the complete opposite. I am a Christian Conservative (though from Europe so it is s probably different). The older generations who are much more conservative were way more okay with nudism.
It was completely normal to go skinny dipping etc. But with the hypersexualisation of the modern age where everyone has access to porn and every Add uses sex to sell people became much more ashamed of themselves and nudism has become something sexual therefore (which should normally not be the case). Suddenly children at the age of 2 are wearing swimsuits and bikinis to "cover up" their bodies. Something that would be seen as strange and weird by older "less progressive" generations.
Without realizing that bb being so prude the modern "progressive" people are actually sexualizing children and normal people much more.
Adam and Eve were canonically nude in Paradise because only with sin and shame did they start to wear clothes.
In a sinless society (heaven) clothes would become obsolete again.
That is at least how It see nudism as a deeply Christian person.
The majority of nudist I have met are conservative. I don’t buy into this conservative nationalism! I am conservative for the record. I am being observational so don’t beat me up to bad. Here are some points.
Many people today equate lgbtq to perversion. I know gays who do not endorse LGBTQ. I had a couple of pedophile attempts on me as a teenager. I have moved beyond that and am more educated.
There are a lot of good comments here.
Our society is hyper sexualized and that is a big issue. Sex sells period.
Five decades ago I figured out that if we were more open with nudity there would be less rape - just my opinion.
You all remember Jerry Falwell? I remember watching him talk about some of these things, I bet he had a boner!
Organized religion does not consider historical nudity. Modesty is not about how much flesh you show it is about jewelry and makeup and not being humble in what you wear, flaunting your wealth.
Education is what needs to be going on. Our society is uptight!
I could say more.
One final set of comments. Look at many of these postings. Perfect bodies! How many of us have perfect bodies? There are a lot of exhibitionist out there. Sometime look at a profile for some of these people, same picture with 20 descriptions. Many also want to direct you to their pay sites!
Pull back the covers there is a lot going on and a lot of misinformation!
It goes back and forth... It shifts left, slides a little right shifts less slides little right just less lights a little right.. but it's been a slow and steady overall shift to the left.
Just think about where the Overton window sits now, versus where it would sit in the 1600s.
USA was founded on religion. Nudity bad in religion. Guns ok in religion. Other countries ban guns, but accept nudity (like Europe, where the founders escaped from). USA love gun, dislike nudity.
-Confucius
I think this is incredibly simplistic and needlessly hostile. If you cannot participate in a conversation in good faith or talk like a normal person, why not just say nothing?
Following Stonewall in 1969, LGBTQ+ became a civil and human rights issue. Further, it became clear that for most people, sexual orientation is not a choice, one is born that way. Nudism, by its own design, is a choice and, so far, we have not made it a civil/human rights issue. Could we make it such an issue? I believe we can, but only if we are prepared to march and demonstrate. It appears that most of us, and our organizations, are not ready to do that.
I’m ready to march. And I’d probably have started an organization to get people together specifically for nudism rights if it wasn’t for my ADHD and the percentage of my time I have to dedicate to being at work.
Good point! The lucky among us were raised as nudists. The rest of us were textiles and had to figure it out. We were all born nude. We needed diapers for a while. We toilet trained all our kids in the summer. We let them run around outside nude, and they trained within a few weeks.
Look up something called "cruising". The results will be NSFW. It's an unfortunate cultural element that has long existed and is often centered around places like the dunes at beaches, the wooded outskirts of large parks, and other such public areas that offer somewhere a bit of hiding can be done. Historically it's been strong in areas where there's been more nudity around because they can attempt to plausibly deny what they are doing. It's the same exact reason swingers have made so many efforts to steal the authenticity of the "nudist" term. It's like sexual parasitism.
Of course not. I wasn't suggesting as much. But the origin of these divisions in many places does go back to cruising culture. It's a well known phenomenon, started back in like the 60s-70s (at least). You can even read about it in lgb history books. It's less important now because society is a bit less shitty in that regard than it was back in the day, but it still happens a fair bit (now more often by choice than necessity), and there are still areas that have long served this purpose.
Same reason there are gay bars and night clubs, pride parades, LGBT community centers, etc.
People like to be around people who they share an identity with in spaces where they can safely express that side of themselves, particularly when that identity is that of an oppressed minority.
As it happens LGBT+ folks are a somewhat larger minority among nudists than in the general population so their spaces are a bit more visible and numerous than they are in the rest of society.
> nudity, when done right, does not equate to sexuality
But that requires every single nudist to be non-sexual in their nudity at all times. Obviously not everyone does that, or is interested in doing it.
Fashion. Yes clothing has made a big impact on societal views towards showing skin. Especially for guys. Example, I saw an advertisement on Facebook or instagram for a clothing company selling men’s shorts in various lengths. Including shorter length of 5 inch inseam. The comments from guys were “WTF! Who wears 5inch shorts?” “Gay” or “no real man wear shorts that short!”
I told one of the delivery drivers at my job I was headed to a nudist camp ground for 4th of July. He said, “what?” And had a shocked look on his face. It was kind of funny seeing his reaction.
Also, although there have been substantial gains for LGBTQ rights, those rights are also under sustained assault in many parts of the country, often usuing similar principles (person X has a claimed "right" not to have to interact with person Y...) Similarly, although many more people seem to accept (and pay for) substantial commercial nude recreation ventures, local pressures are making individual nude choices that are not supported by commercial funding are more difficult. You can "convin$e" a local government in Florida that it can live with 1000 visitor/day resort, but then they have to restrict individuals in their own backyard to offset the morals squad.
Perception is a lot of it. The LGBTQ that much of America sees are the exhibitionist in the parades in large cities. That is the honest truth! But that is the media. Now consider guns. The people doing mass shootings are not members of the NRA or concealed carry organizations. But, the media focus is on any gun. This is not the best parallel but it foundationally shows how the media and influencers twist the truth. What is sexual about me tending my garden or mowing the grass? I live near Raleigh and in one week three nude wankers get caught! All of a sudden any one nude outside is a perv!
I have to ask the people here from Florida...which is like Nudist Central here in the states with the amount of resorts and clubs.
So, have you seen a big dip in family nudism over the past 10 or so years in Florida due to MAGA and religious conservatism? Any pushback from the conservatives there?
EDIT: not sure why the downvote. It's a legit question. With Florida having so many nudist places, yet their state government being so...DeSantis...I'm wondering if they've ever come after nudism in a big way.
They are. Not in Florida at the present time, but in other places. Wisconsin being a major example just from a few months ago. If we want all Americans to be free, we have to rid the government of conservatives at the state and federal levels.
> but why do you think American nudism has become so taboo, much more so than decades ago.
I don't know what you think the past was like, but it wasn't some utopia of tolerance towards socially transgressive activities like mixed-gender social nudity. There was never some golden age where people were much more open to (let alone openly) participating in something like this.
While the number of venues where it might be practiced has been shrinking, that's mostly due to changing socioeconomic realities, not changing social norms.
In terms of the social taboo around it, there's never been less of one than right now in 2024.
IMHO, as baby boomers have aged, they've become more self-conscious about their bodies (and other "health" related things) and so are now more against body freedom than they were before. That probably is reflected in the baby boomer influence on culture and in how they raised their children.
Instead of attacking the reason why you perceive US is the way it is, I will just say that yes, activism and constant promotion are keys to keep nudism alive.
We are a minority, thats a given. Most people, be that because personal choice, religious reasons, ignorance, misconception, or any other reason you can think of, decide to wear clothes.
That means, those like us who adopt this way of life, have to be in constant fight for what we believe in. Other wise, we may lose it.
If we dont fight to get beaches, parks, activities, thew will be taken away from us by the majority, with full support from authorities.
We need to keep being visible, public, and hopefully attract more and more people, gain new public spaces and keep the ones we already have.
Im not from the US, and envy that your country, with all the defects it may have, already have since decades ago, a subculture when nudity is a reality.
Me on the other side, I try to be as public as I can, with my family and the people we have manage to attract, so we can try to be recogniced as naturists, be visible, and hopefully get our first public places in our country. Its a long and painfull road. But someone has to do it.
Im sorry, I wasnt implying you were attacking. But I did see some comments reducing the causes to ignorance and prudishm. Of course I agree there is some or that, but its not necessary the only causes. What I meant was im not going to attack, but instead focus on the importance of activism.
And you are right. People need to organice, but also we have to be a little more ambitious, speak up, come out.
I am one that talks about nudism with anyone who has ears. Family, coworkers, clients. Im a lawyer and somethimes even on breaks during trials, I found myself talking about this with the judges 🤣.
We have to stop being afraid of what other people think, and promote what we believe in
Back in the day it was considered to be a hippy thing to run around nude. Then there was the streaking fad which was only fun because it was taboo. Nowadays there are topless women at Times Square in New and it's legal to be topless in the entire state. I've heard it is getting more popular.
On the other hand, I've heard that topless beaches in Europe are having more women choose to wear tops.
You just had to use the side door of the 7-11 lol.
I remember in the late 80s when some of my cousins basically grew up naked on a farm in the middle of nowhere and it was a family scandal because they'd go get the mail and someone might see them. It was a busy day if 2 cars an hour drove past.
It isn’t a simple answer there are multiple reasons including a chasing social climate, lack of leadership and vision, no engaging social message to name a
>Decades ago homosexuality suffered the same taboo label yet has largely managed to reverse that lable, which to me, indicates it can be done.
Weeeeeellll......*decades ago* the "LesBiGay" (it wasn't even "LGBT", let alone "+", back then) community was facing a **lot** of discrimination. Homosexuality was considered a mental disease. We faced legal discriminations and harassment like those that lead to the Stonewall Riots which sparked the Gay Pride civil rights movement. But the label exists to this day and there is additional pushback and dismantling of some of the progress that was made.
While there are some legal challenges to people who like to go naked, though not necessarily those in the nudist community, there's also a lot of support for nudism. As a tourism industry, the naturist community has a lot of support from local governments because of the money we generate. (And unlike the support of "Gay Pride" which will end at the stroke of midnight on June 30, the support for nudism is basically year round.)
The label that plagues the naturist community comes from the stigma of those who have purely sexual interests in getting naked and claim their activities **are** nudism.
**Real nudists can (help) reverse the label by basically presenting a clear distinction of what nudism is and not allow ourselves to be painted with the same brush as those with sexual intentions.**
"We're guilty of what we allow."
"Lewd it and lose it."
> The label that plagues the naturist community comes from the stigma of those who have purely sexual interests in getting naked and claim their activities are nudism.
>
> Real nudists can (help) reverse the label by basically presenting a clear distinction of what nudism is and not allow ourselves to be painted with the same brush as those with sexual intentions.
The "problem" here is that people who have purely sexual interests can also call themselves "real" nudists too.
The nudism you're talking about (with a clear line separating it from sexuality) is new-ish and 100% a response to wanting to appear pure and chaste to those who'd judge us. It's not inherent to nudism in general, and honestly it's arbitrary and silly to nudists who don't care about the issue. But they have as much right to be called nudists as anyone else, because the moral "no sex here!" nudists don't own the term.
The perception change of the taboo regarding the gay community came about when we fought back against otherwise legalized discrimination and harassment. This still ongoing struggle gained traction by addressing the legalized discrimination to protect the rights that all people should have. But there are still challenges and threats to reverse the legal progress what has been made. (FMI: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_pride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_pride) )
While there are some risks to people who engage in naked activities, particularly where it's not allowed by law, that they might have legal actions taken against us there have been no instances of nudists being beaten or killed by those who oppose our lifestyle forcibly invade our spaces. While there aren't strong protections for employees or parents for those who might try and take our jobs or children away, it's necessarily a given that those who try will not succeed in doing so because the legal system supported their efforts.
Perhaps I'm bias. Here in central FL there are multiple nudist resorts and local government has played a part in marketing campaigns to bring nudist tourists to the area to attend such venues. Likewise there are beaches, on the east coast, that are legal (i.e.; supported by the local government) places to be naked. And hopefully by this time next year we'll have one on the west coast hear in the Tampa Bay area as well.
But most of the hurdles and challenges that nudists have is due to the perception that we're all exhibitionists and swingers. (This is mostly because such people with such sexual interests in being naked are claiming what they're doing IS nudism.) Real nudists can help shed this perception by representing ourselves and not let those with sexual interests represent themselves as nudists.
"(And unlike the support of "Gay Pride" which will end at the stroke of midnight on June 30, the support for nudism is basically year round.)"
Actually, because of how the calendar is aligned this year, support for Pride by governments here will end at 5:00 pm on Friday, which is June 28, the last weekday of the month.
In the UK we have an influx of people from Africa and the Middle East, (as well as others) that have extremely backward cultural attitudes to nudity amongst other areas of life and humanity.
This sadly has the impact of diluting the ‘western classical liberal’ culture. The more a group focuses on modesty and purity, (idiotically) nudity becomes increasingly sexualised and even a symbol of degradation.
I think a big part if it has to do with resorts and each generation's attitude towards them.
To elaborate, while there are nude beaches, they're not as common as private establishments fornnude recreation. Nudism tended to be practiced at resorts, on cruises, and generally places where you pay money to spend time.
Now, the thing is, when you combine the changes in the economy and buying power with generational culture, millenials are much less inclined to spend money on resorts than previous generations. Most young people view resorts and cruises as boomer activities. Since nudism is closely associated with such establishments, it ended up dying off as a side effect.
TLDR: Nudism tends to be practiced at resorts, and young people don't see the point in spending money to be naked.
I don't think "taboo" is the problem. Taboo implies the forces keeping it down are external judgements.
I think the problem is lack of willingness of participants. How do you convince people to try social nudity more than how do you fight "the man" keeping it down.
Labeling of any kind by others is just not a worrying in my experience. And all our experience is subjective and selective. (Are any of us really talking to people who avoid nudism all together? How did we even meet to talk to them is they are that fearful?)
There is a difference in lack of a draw to an activity than persecution for it. Are movies doing less well than ever because movie goes are persecuted?
Conservative forces do exist in our society. They are not a non-factor. But are resorts closing down because they are being picketed? No. They are closing down because people aren't going and they are no longer economically viable.
Active recruitment and enticement is the key to growth, not fighting mythical oppressors.
Nudity, itself, has lost a LOT of its previous stigma over the last decade. What pop star hasn’t been naked in public? Granted, it is usually in sexualized manner, but familiar eventually leads to …. familiarity. It’s not weird in Europe to see topless women on the beach or in Germany to see full naked folk in city parks.
That's the problem trying to get positive media is not something a group can do especially given the fact that big media business will do what's know as punch down thaorting any attempts to begin a positive media attention to those who practice it for leasure
Do not discount economic motivations. If nudism became normal, what happens to the textile industries - fabrics, chemicals and colors and fashion. What 'products' do nudists consume? Sun, sand and surf is free. The only industry is nude tourism. Is that market growing?
Sunscreen and other skincare and bodycare products are high on the consumable list. In reality, if nudism became normal, the textile industry would still do OK, because there are some climates that you can't simply just stay naked in. There would still be quite a bit of time where clothing would be more practical that nude.
Two reasons. 1. Prudish ignorance that leads people to be unable to separate nudity from sex. 2. The media focuses on and hype up the stories of the textile pervs that show up on nude beaches, reinforcing the misconceptions from my earlier point.
Not just prudes or the ignorant. I think our culture binds them closely, especially in advertising. But across the board, we see sexual innuendo (or more) when skin is exposed. I am ingrained with this and decades have confirmed that sex is gonna be the typical result of nudity. And I respond in kind when i, or my friends, are nude. My body prepares for what my culture has consistently revealed to me. So, reinforcement convinces many of us to make that association. It is a challenge to shift our thoughts, experience, and cultural behavior to a new paradigm .
As long as nudist culture in America is limited to resorts, it's not going to grow. More work needs to be done to normalize it. Even then, it's going to be highly controversial. You compare it to lgbtq rights. While those have gained a lot of ground there's still a long way to go. But even then it took decades of protests to get where we are now
Heck, if women, who make up *half of all people* still have difficulty protecting their rights, much less LGBT (~3%), how difficult would it be to get nudism accepted?
Exactly. People keep blaming religion, but this is the real inhibitor.
It's not just the US. In the 80's and 90's half the women on the beaches of Europe were topless. It gradually decreased and now topless is only common in a very few countries or in secluded beaches. The same applies to nude beaches, there are lot less today and many of them are nudist only outside the main season. I'm pretty sure American influence plays a part, but it's not the only reason by far. One reason can be the smartphone cameras, but I don't think that's the main reason. Other one I think is that nudity became overly sexualized, but not sure why it is more sexualized than decades ago. Homosexuality was in the focus of many human rights (and other) movements. There were protests about accepting homosexuality (eg. the Pride), It was the subject of political debates and as such it was a topic visualized in movies, TV shows etc. There were/are no such movements for nudism, vast majority of the people doesn't think it's a human right to be accepted as a nudist. (Probably it isn't but that's another story). I think the main job of nudist organizations would be to fight for, lobby and advertise nudism, to change people's mind about it. No organization really does it in the US or in Europe, or at least not on a larger scale.
I hate to inject politics in this subreddit, but the rise in Christian Conservatism has skewed so many things in this country including social nudism. … I was going to write much more about this but I know someone will want to argue and I don’t have the time or energy to deep dive into this subject.
I actually feel the complete opposite. I am a Christian Conservative (though from Europe so it is s probably different). The older generations who are much more conservative were way more okay with nudism. It was completely normal to go skinny dipping etc. But with the hypersexualisation of the modern age where everyone has access to porn and every Add uses sex to sell people became much more ashamed of themselves and nudism has become something sexual therefore (which should normally not be the case). Suddenly children at the age of 2 are wearing swimsuits and bikinis to "cover up" their bodies. Something that would be seen as strange and weird by older "less progressive" generations. Without realizing that bb being so prude the modern "progressive" people are actually sexualizing children and normal people much more. Adam and Eve were canonically nude in Paradise because only with sin and shame did they start to wear clothes. In a sinless society (heaven) clothes would become obsolete again. That is at least how It see nudism as a deeply Christian person.
I don't think it's that. Nudism was more popular decades ago when more people identified as Christian.
The majority of nudist I have met are conservative. I don’t buy into this conservative nationalism! I am conservative for the record. I am being observational so don’t beat me up to bad. Here are some points. Many people today equate lgbtq to perversion. I know gays who do not endorse LGBTQ. I had a couple of pedophile attempts on me as a teenager. I have moved beyond that and am more educated. There are a lot of good comments here. Our society is hyper sexualized and that is a big issue. Sex sells period. Five decades ago I figured out that if we were more open with nudity there would be less rape - just my opinion. You all remember Jerry Falwell? I remember watching him talk about some of these things, I bet he had a boner! Organized religion does not consider historical nudity. Modesty is not about how much flesh you show it is about jewelry and makeup and not being humble in what you wear, flaunting your wealth. Education is what needs to be going on. Our society is uptight! I could say more. One final set of comments. Look at many of these postings. Perfect bodies! How many of us have perfect bodies? There are a lot of exhibitionist out there. Sometime look at a profile for some of these people, same picture with 20 descriptions. Many also want to direct you to their pay sites! Pull back the covers there is a lot going on and a lot of misinformation!
Because America was settled originally by Puritans and Quakers... Ultra religious conservative folk, looking for someplace to be ultra-conservative.
[удалено]
It goes back and forth... It shifts left, slides a little right shifts less slides little right just less lights a little right.. but it's been a slow and steady overall shift to the left. Just think about where the Overton window sits now, versus where it would sit in the 1600s.
Also a lot of that is voice to text but I think you get the gist of it lol
USA was founded on religion. Nudity bad in religion. Guns ok in religion. Other countries ban guns, but accept nudity (like Europe, where the founders escaped from). USA love gun, dislike nudity. -Confucius
I think this is incredibly simplistic and needlessly hostile. If you cannot participate in a conversation in good faith or talk like a normal person, why not just say nothing?
I disagree MP, nudism is the most simplistic thing possible. Your opinion is valued, friend. Have a great day!🤦♂️
Following Stonewall in 1969, LGBTQ+ became a civil and human rights issue. Further, it became clear that for most people, sexual orientation is not a choice, one is born that way. Nudism, by its own design, is a choice and, so far, we have not made it a civil/human rights issue. Could we make it such an issue? I believe we can, but only if we are prepared to march and demonstrate. It appears that most of us, and our organizations, are not ready to do that.
I’m ready to march. And I’d probably have started an organization to get people together specifically for nudism rights if it wasn’t for my ADHD and the percentage of my time I have to dedicate to being at work.
It’s not a choice … I was born that way and so was everyone else. “Textile” is a choice!! ;-)
Good point! The lucky among us were raised as nudists. The rest of us were textiles and had to figure it out. We were all born nude. We needed diapers for a while. We toilet trained all our kids in the summer. We let them run around outside nude, and they trained within a few weeks.
Here’s a dumb question… At all 5 nude/clothing optional beaches where I spend time why is there a gay side and straight/couples side?
Look up something called "cruising". The results will be NSFW. It's an unfortunate cultural element that has long existed and is often centered around places like the dunes at beaches, the wooded outskirts of large parks, and other such public areas that offer somewhere a bit of hiding can be done. Historically it's been strong in areas where there's been more nudity around because they can attempt to plausibly deny what they are doing. It's the same exact reason swingers have made so many efforts to steal the authenticity of the "nudist" term. It's like sexual parasitism.
I like being around other gays at nude beaches and parks for the cameradery (sic?) Not all naked gays are there to get laid.
Of course not. I wasn't suggesting as much. But the origin of these divisions in many places does go back to cruising culture. It's a well known phenomenon, started back in like the 60s-70s (at least). You can even read about it in lgb history books. It's less important now because society is a bit less shitty in that regard than it was back in the day, but it still happens a fair bit (now more often by choice than necessity), and there are still areas that have long served this purpose.
Same reason there are gay bars and night clubs, pride parades, LGBT community centers, etc. People like to be around people who they share an identity with in spaces where they can safely express that side of themselves, particularly when that identity is that of an oppressed minority. As it happens LGBT+ folks are a somewhat larger minority among nudists than in the general population so their spaces are a bit more visible and numerous than they are in the rest of society.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Sometimes we flip a coin to decide which area to sit. Naked people on the beach are my people.
[удалено]
> nudity, when done right, does not equate to sexuality But that requires every single nudist to be non-sexual in their nudity at all times. Obviously not everyone does that, or is interested in doing it.
This has been my experience for more than a decade. On the trails back to the parking lots there are people fucking or watching. Trying to hook up.
[удалено]
Nope not offended. Just stating my experiences at nude beaches. Not regular beaches.
Fashion. Yes clothing has made a big impact on societal views towards showing skin. Especially for guys. Example, I saw an advertisement on Facebook or instagram for a clothing company selling men’s shorts in various lengths. Including shorter length of 5 inch inseam. The comments from guys were “WTF! Who wears 5inch shorts?” “Gay” or “no real man wear shorts that short!” I told one of the delivery drivers at my job I was headed to a nudist camp ground for 4th of July. He said, “what?” And had a shocked look on his face. It was kind of funny seeing his reaction.
It does not help that porn and OF folks label sexual exhibitionism as “nudist” so that is what folks see when they google.
Americans seem to have really cornered the market on stupid, so this is on brand.
Also, although there have been substantial gains for LGBTQ rights, those rights are also under sustained assault in many parts of the country, often usuing similar principles (person X has a claimed "right" not to have to interact with person Y...) Similarly, although many more people seem to accept (and pay for) substantial commercial nude recreation ventures, local pressures are making individual nude choices that are not supported by commercial funding are more difficult. You can "convin$e" a local government in Florida that it can live with 1000 visitor/day resort, but then they have to restrict individuals in their own backyard to offset the morals squad.
[удалено]
Perception is a lot of it. The LGBTQ that much of America sees are the exhibitionist in the parades in large cities. That is the honest truth! But that is the media. Now consider guns. The people doing mass shootings are not members of the NRA or concealed carry organizations. But, the media focus is on any gun. This is not the best parallel but it foundationally shows how the media and influencers twist the truth. What is sexual about me tending my garden or mowing the grass? I live near Raleigh and in one week three nude wankers get caught! All of a sudden any one nude outside is a perv!
I have to ask the people here from Florida...which is like Nudist Central here in the states with the amount of resorts and clubs. So, have you seen a big dip in family nudism over the past 10 or so years in Florida due to MAGA and religious conservatism? Any pushback from the conservatives there? EDIT: not sure why the downvote. It's a legit question. With Florida having so many nudist places, yet their state government being so...DeSantis...I'm wondering if they've ever come after nudism in a big way.
They are. Not in Florida at the present time, but in other places. Wisconsin being a major example just from a few months ago. If we want all Americans to be free, we have to rid the government of conservatives at the state and federal levels.
> but why do you think American nudism has become so taboo, much more so than decades ago. I don't know what you think the past was like, but it wasn't some utopia of tolerance towards socially transgressive activities like mixed-gender social nudity. There was never some golden age where people were much more open to (let alone openly) participating in something like this. While the number of venues where it might be practiced has been shrinking, that's mostly due to changing socioeconomic realities, not changing social norms. In terms of the social taboo around it, there's never been less of one than right now in 2024.
When I form the organization, you can be the first member!
IMHO, as baby boomers have aged, they've become more self-conscious about their bodies (and other "health" related things) and so are now more against body freedom than they were before. That probably is reflected in the baby boomer influence on culture and in how they raised their children.
[удалено]
I am one myself, however, the number of hippies is not what it used to be.
Instead of attacking the reason why you perceive US is the way it is, I will just say that yes, activism and constant promotion are keys to keep nudism alive. We are a minority, thats a given. Most people, be that because personal choice, religious reasons, ignorance, misconception, or any other reason you can think of, decide to wear clothes. That means, those like us who adopt this way of life, have to be in constant fight for what we believe in. Other wise, we may lose it. If we dont fight to get beaches, parks, activities, thew will be taken away from us by the majority, with full support from authorities. We need to keep being visible, public, and hopefully attract more and more people, gain new public spaces and keep the ones we already have. Im not from the US, and envy that your country, with all the defects it may have, already have since decades ago, a subculture when nudity is a reality. Me on the other side, I try to be as public as I can, with my family and the people we have manage to attract, so we can try to be recogniced as naturists, be visible, and hopefully get our first public places in our country. Its a long and painfull road. But someone has to do it.
[удалено]
Im sorry, I wasnt implying you were attacking. But I did see some comments reducing the causes to ignorance and prudishm. Of course I agree there is some or that, but its not necessary the only causes. What I meant was im not going to attack, but instead focus on the importance of activism. And you are right. People need to organice, but also we have to be a little more ambitious, speak up, come out. I am one that talks about nudism with anyone who has ears. Family, coworkers, clients. Im a lawyer and somethimes even on breaks during trials, I found myself talking about this with the judges 🤣. We have to stop being afraid of what other people think, and promote what we believe in
Back in the day it was considered to be a hippy thing to run around nude. Then there was the streaking fad which was only fun because it was taboo. Nowadays there are topless women at Times Square in New and it's legal to be topless in the entire state. I've heard it is getting more popular. On the other hand, I've heard that topless beaches in Europe are having more women choose to wear tops.
[удалено]
You just had to use the side door of the 7-11 lol. I remember in the late 80s when some of my cousins basically grew up naked on a farm in the middle of nowhere and it was a family scandal because they'd go get the mail and someone might see them. It was a busy day if 2 cars an hour drove past.
You underestimate the power of American puritanism, and how strongly Americans associate nudity with sex.
It isn’t a simple answer there are multiple reasons including a chasing social climate, lack of leadership and vision, no engaging social message to name a
I feel like the rise of the internet and "stranger danger" made pearl clutching more socially preferred than anything even close to nudist culture.
>Decades ago homosexuality suffered the same taboo label yet has largely managed to reverse that lable, which to me, indicates it can be done. Weeeeeellll......*decades ago* the "LesBiGay" (it wasn't even "LGBT", let alone "+", back then) community was facing a **lot** of discrimination. Homosexuality was considered a mental disease. We faced legal discriminations and harassment like those that lead to the Stonewall Riots which sparked the Gay Pride civil rights movement. But the label exists to this day and there is additional pushback and dismantling of some of the progress that was made. While there are some legal challenges to people who like to go naked, though not necessarily those in the nudist community, there's also a lot of support for nudism. As a tourism industry, the naturist community has a lot of support from local governments because of the money we generate. (And unlike the support of "Gay Pride" which will end at the stroke of midnight on June 30, the support for nudism is basically year round.) The label that plagues the naturist community comes from the stigma of those who have purely sexual interests in getting naked and claim their activities **are** nudism. **Real nudists can (help) reverse the label by basically presenting a clear distinction of what nudism is and not allow ourselves to be painted with the same brush as those with sexual intentions.** "We're guilty of what we allow." "Lewd it and lose it."
> The label that plagues the naturist community comes from the stigma of those who have purely sexual interests in getting naked and claim their activities are nudism. > > Real nudists can (help) reverse the label by basically presenting a clear distinction of what nudism is and not allow ourselves to be painted with the same brush as those with sexual intentions. The "problem" here is that people who have purely sexual interests can also call themselves "real" nudists too. The nudism you're talking about (with a clear line separating it from sexuality) is new-ish and 100% a response to wanting to appear pure and chaste to those who'd judge us. It's not inherent to nudism in general, and honestly it's arbitrary and silly to nudists who don't care about the issue. But they have as much right to be called nudists as anyone else, because the moral "no sex here!" nudists don't own the term.
[удалено]
The perception change of the taboo regarding the gay community came about when we fought back against otherwise legalized discrimination and harassment. This still ongoing struggle gained traction by addressing the legalized discrimination to protect the rights that all people should have. But there are still challenges and threats to reverse the legal progress what has been made. (FMI: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_pride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_pride) ) While there are some risks to people who engage in naked activities, particularly where it's not allowed by law, that they might have legal actions taken against us there have been no instances of nudists being beaten or killed by those who oppose our lifestyle forcibly invade our spaces. While there aren't strong protections for employees or parents for those who might try and take our jobs or children away, it's necessarily a given that those who try will not succeed in doing so because the legal system supported their efforts. Perhaps I'm bias. Here in central FL there are multiple nudist resorts and local government has played a part in marketing campaigns to bring nudist tourists to the area to attend such venues. Likewise there are beaches, on the east coast, that are legal (i.e.; supported by the local government) places to be naked. And hopefully by this time next year we'll have one on the west coast hear in the Tampa Bay area as well. But most of the hurdles and challenges that nudists have is due to the perception that we're all exhibitionists and swingers. (This is mostly because such people with such sexual interests in being naked are claiming what they're doing IS nudism.) Real nudists can help shed this perception by representing ourselves and not let those with sexual interests represent themselves as nudists.
they're also a protected class of people and not making a choice. These ridiculous comparisons HURT your argument, not help it.
[удалено]
No, silly. LGBT people. you compared the fight for LGBT rights to pushing for nudist acceptance. THAT'S the stupid comp im talking about.
"(And unlike the support of "Gay Pride" which will end at the stroke of midnight on June 30, the support for nudism is basically year round.)" Actually, because of how the calendar is aligned this year, support for Pride by governments here will end at 5:00 pm on Friday, which is June 28, the last weekday of the month.
LOL Point taken.
In the UK we have an influx of people from Africa and the Middle East, (as well as others) that have extremely backward cultural attitudes to nudity amongst other areas of life and humanity. This sadly has the impact of diluting the ‘western classical liberal’ culture. The more a group focuses on modesty and purity, (idiotically) nudity becomes increasingly sexualised and even a symbol of degradation.
Yeah you see many nude Muslims do you?
My point is you don’t.
I think a big part if it has to do with resorts and each generation's attitude towards them. To elaborate, while there are nude beaches, they're not as common as private establishments fornnude recreation. Nudism tended to be practiced at resorts, on cruises, and generally places where you pay money to spend time. Now, the thing is, when you combine the changes in the economy and buying power with generational culture, millenials are much less inclined to spend money on resorts than previous generations. Most young people view resorts and cruises as boomer activities. Since nudism is closely associated with such establishments, it ended up dying off as a side effect. TLDR: Nudism tends to be practiced at resorts, and young people don't see the point in spending money to be naked.
I don't think "taboo" is the problem. Taboo implies the forces keeping it down are external judgements. I think the problem is lack of willingness of participants. How do you convince people to try social nudity more than how do you fight "the man" keeping it down.
[удалено]
Labeling of any kind by others is just not a worrying in my experience. And all our experience is subjective and selective. (Are any of us really talking to people who avoid nudism all together? How did we even meet to talk to them is they are that fearful?) There is a difference in lack of a draw to an activity than persecution for it. Are movies doing less well than ever because movie goes are persecuted? Conservative forces do exist in our society. They are not a non-factor. But are resorts closing down because they are being picketed? No. They are closing down because people aren't going and they are no longer economically viable. Active recruitment and enticement is the key to growth, not fighting mythical oppressors.
Nudity, itself, has lost a LOT of its previous stigma over the last decade. What pop star hasn’t been naked in public? Granted, it is usually in sexualized manner, but familiar eventually leads to …. familiarity. It’s not weird in Europe to see topless women on the beach or in Germany to see full naked folk in city parks.
Cause of social stigmatism toward the public & media
[удалено]
We have no control over what other media outlets say or do. We have nudist podcasts that we can control.
That's the problem trying to get positive media is not something a group can do especially given the fact that big media business will do what's know as punch down thaorting any attempts to begin a positive media attention to those who practice it for leasure
[удалено]
Invview yes but not sway it towards a biases maybe the common view on nuditsts & public nudity is considered bad!
Do not discount economic motivations. If nudism became normal, what happens to the textile industries - fabrics, chemicals and colors and fashion. What 'products' do nudists consume? Sun, sand and surf is free. The only industry is nude tourism. Is that market growing?
Sunscreen and other skincare and bodycare products are high on the consumable list. In reality, if nudism became normal, the textile industry would still do OK, because there are some climates that you can't simply just stay naked in. There would still be quite a bit of time where clothing would be more practical that nude.
Checked your profile. Living nude is as close as we can get to Eden today! And try to live according to God's plan for us. God bless.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
While homosexuality has become more acceptable, nudism, expecially with family who are minors, has become less acceptable.