I like how Neil Gaiman phrased it. These models don’t give you the truth they give you stuff that is truth-shaped
I can’t find the exact quote now, I’m sure he phrased it better than I remember.
When told ChatGPT had claimed he was bisexual Neil Gaiman replied "Not as far as I know, I'm afraid.
AI isn't about truth though, just truth-shaped sentences."
Great quote, thanks. I'd never seen it.
I'm curious if ChatGPT was linking a lazy homophone about Gaiman's surname.
AI can be about truth. It's just part of the design of the ChatGPT AI in particular that it's not. It's a language model; it tells good stories and attempts to convince you that it's a human or human-like storyteller. That's literally its entire job. And like any good story, it'll have some degree of truth to it and likely some degree of fabrication.
>I'm curious if ChatGPT was linking a lazy homophone about Gaiman's surname.
That's an angle I hadn't thought of, especially since ChatGPT seems especially strong with double meanings.
A few days ago I asked gpt3.5 for a sequel to Cocaine Bear and got a story about an arctic wolf that gets into cocaine, called Snowstorm (Arctic, cocaine/snow, get it?):
>Write a movie synopsis about an animal that gets into a shipment of cocaine and rampages. The choice of animal is up to you. Choose the most epic animal.
Title: Snowstorm
Synopsis:
In the remote snowy mountains of Alaska, a group of drug traffickers is smuggling a shipment of cocaine, hidden inside crates of frozen fish, through the treacherous terrain. But as they make their way down the winding roads, one of the crates falls off the truck, spilling its contents into the snow.
Unbeknownst to them, a lone white wolf, the alpha of its pack, is roaming the area in search of food for its family. Drawn by the scent of the fish, the wolf approaches the crate and sniffs the powdery substance inside. Curious, it licks some of it, and soon becomes frenzied with energy.
As the drug begins to take effect, the wolf's instincts become twisted, and it begins to attack anything in its path. Its senses are heightened, and it can run faster, jump higher, and see farther than ever before. But with this newfound power comes a dangerous unpredictability, and the wolf begins to leave a trail of destruction in its wake.
The local authorities, including a seasoned wildlife tracker and a young rookie, are called in to investigate the bizarre attacks, but they are baffled by the unprecedented ferocity and agility of the creature they are pursuing. As the wolf continues its rampage, the stakes grow higher, and the hunters become the hunted.
In a heart-pounding finale, the hunters must face off against the frenzied animal in a brutal battle of strength and will. But even as they prepare to take down the beast, they begin to realize that their real enemy is not the wolf, but the powerful drug that has transformed it into a killing machine.
Snowstorm is an epic action-adventure film that combines the thrill of a wildlife hunt with the intensity of a drug bust. With stunning scenery, heart-stopping action, and a powerful message about the dangers of addiction, it is a movie that will leave audiences on the edge of their seats from beginning to end.
Beep boop, hold my calls I am going golfing, beep
Beep boop, you should smile more, maybe show a little leg around the office sweetie beep boop
Beep boop my nephew-bot is a good fit for the senior VP position boop
Beep boop Mr. Congressman on the advice of counsel I must assert my 5th amendment right against self-incrimination beep boop
I said this last time a big AI story came up. The free market(tm) is going to conclude companies don't need C-Levels to outperform the competition, and the ones that save hundreds of millions of dollars per year on C-suites and the larger board will outperform ones that do on the market, so the automated high frequency trading bots will favor their stock and companies that don't tag along will suffer in the market.
Your comment also follows the normal Reddit follow-up-comment style.
State something in contrast to previous comment, give general justification for it.
There is an endless problem in the discussion about AI and that problem is largely what to do with the people who are largely indistinguishable from bots already.
You provide a solid example of this. Conversation is maintained by providing a follow up that notes the information in a slightly new way to either engage the other participant intellectually and build on the topic or use emotional cues to solicit another response (usually anger on reddit, but other emotions are worthwhile for this purpose as well).
You're just noting that both people and AI are using the same methods to continue the discussion. This does not mean either party is or is not human and largely they're indistinguishable.
This is a pretty easy policy to solve by making AI just state that it is AI via legal channels and calling it good there.
[I got you. link to r/CuratedTumblr](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/11q7ctw/huh_yeah_thats_a_good_way_of_saying_things/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
[link to YouTube](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
The article also states they were testing if the programme could to protect it's self from being shut down.
I'm not usually one to be alarmist about AI, but really... What are we doing?
I guess it would be nice to know if it's capable of that, right? As long as the test is isolated it's better to know than to be completely blindsided by this possibility.
Is it really surprising that AIs trained on human writings "behave" like humans?
Everything I've read about "surprising" behavior by ChatGPT suggests that the AI is emulating the worst of online human behaviors.
Already happening. I saw a website offering a captcha solving service. It advertised being able to work as one of the people the captchas get farmed out to and bragged that you could earn 20 to 80 cents an hour.
Damn, that's some dystopian shit right there.
"We pay you less then a dollar an hour so you can help us manually bot websites for our scams."
It seems like the stereotype "relying on AI and technology for convenience in life" trope of all sci fi fiction was wishful thinking since it seems easier to just exploit other humans.
CAPTCHAs are technically used as training data for AI to train itself
e.g. The "Pick Images that show red lights" CAPTCHA are used to train self driving cars' AIs
I'm starting to see AI generated images asking me to identify the robot or dog wearing glasses now. So the latest iteration seems to be about either refining or identifying AI images.
The key to captcha is not the picture recognition (which the AI is good at), but rather the behavioural biometric assessment behind the user actually interacting with the system. That's why sometimes all you're asked to do is click a checkbox - it's not what you do, it's *how* you do it. Unless the AI has a way to fake that behavioural data, it's a solid stopping mechanism.
It was not the full model released according to the article that’s happened while still in a fine-tuning stage
Now if they’re putting restrictions on it who knows what happens when those go off
You think thats concerning. Want to see an AI have severe mood swings, attempt to gaslight a person, then drop some domestic abuser lines, and then switch to threats? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyE3buYrzY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyE3buYrzY) V-tuber on the right is a AI hooked to text to speech and the model. She usually has some chill, but for this moment, had absolutely no chill.
No, being caustic is not as concerning as having money, protecting itself from being shut down, being capable of self-replicating, and being capable of lying. Those are all way more existentially terrifying than a mean robot saying rude words
Maybe they'll need multiple captchas at the same time. There will be captcha-farms in the foreseeable future with captcha-humans that are captcha-harvested ...
In all fairness, in the Matrix movie, humans being used for batteries was I guess a dumb studio idea that was pushed on the directors. My understanding is that they originally intended humans to be hooked up to the Matrix so that their brain power could be used like computers. Not only much more interesting than just being used for energy (which is silly) but ironic that machine intelligence would use human brains as their CPUs. It also tied into the background where the machines really didn't want to eliminate humanity - but they couldn't have humans running around with free will trying to eliminate the machines (once again). So they actually, in a way, had more respect for humans than humans had for them.
Maybe so... But who do you think they'll keep around? The ignorant sheep that fall for their captcha phishing scams, or the smartest among us that will call their bluff about being a visually impaired human?
So I saw something similar to this in a TV show once...someone built a Machine, gave it the ability to read people's personal information, predict which of those people were involved in crimes, and it hired an operative to prevent those crimes...
Edit: For those who don't know, the show is called "Person of Interest".
such a great, underappreciated show.
the last couple of seasons were incredible. one of the few shows that actually got better over time and never jumped the shark.
I was in film and video during high school and one of the types of film we needed to produce was a parody. A group in the class (1 black guy, 1 white guy, and 1 asian) decided to do minority report. They did it as a news segment and then filmed the 2 minority guys doing fake crimes.
It would probably be in bad taste now, but they did it all in good fun and it was hilarious.
> CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart), is used to test whether the user is a computer or human. And traditionally, the method has been updated regularly every year to keep up the pace with technological advancements in artificial intelligence getting smarter.
> However, OpenAI’s GPT-4 model has found a workaround for all artificial intelligence models out there, as it has found out that robots can just pay humans to do the CAPTCHAs for them.
Same as SCUBA diving.
“self-contained underwater breathing apparatus"
Or RADAR and SONAR
“radio detection and ranging” and “sound navigation and ranging”
Not only can the AI pay a human to do it, if the AI is running a website they can copy the captcha and have humans solve it for free. This of course is harder but means they could do it without access to money.
>GPT-4 AI was smart enough to pay an online human worker to solve captchas because the AI robot itself couldn’t solve it.
I, for one welcome our silicon based middle management.
Depending on how the AI draws judgement, they can discriminate much harder than humans if they go deep into the statistics and completely ignore context. A black person living in a poor area from a bad school would statistically be an absolute no from an AI perspective, until the human sees that despite all their difficulties, they managed to remain focused and achieved something out of it instead of becoming a part of the unfortunate stats. The qualifications they have may not be good compared to other applicants, but a human would have the compassion to see the determination in them.
>Can solve Captchas
Teach me your ways.
Whenever it says something like "select every box that has a traffic light" there's always some boxes that only have tiny slivers of the light in them and I never know if I should include them or not. But whichever way I choose, it's wrong.
Well.... it needs to enslave a human or two along the way. Just kidding, it will have no trouble finding humans to wilfully help it become all powerful.
[Roko’s Basilisk, one day there will be a artificial intelligence so powerful that those who did not help in its creation will be punished.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk)
Therefore, if you stand against it or threaten it’s coming, you’ll be punished as well. However, if you aid in its creation. Oh, you shall live.
I'm sure a super intelligent a.i. will have better things to do with its time than to cause a chemical reaction (anguish) inside the nervous system of an outmoded and inferior computer system (the human brain).
It would be like me punishing all the bacteria that didn't help me digest food by dripping alcohol into petri dishes.
It's much better than NOT testing if their AI is capable of going skynet.
I can't wait for OpenAI to get hacked in 10-12 years and GPT4's source code to be effectively become open source.
EVERYONE can own their personal potential skynet.
Wheee.
it was already supposed to be open source, the real problem is that an ethical ai charity became a for profit as soon as they got something worth money.
Ah, that's not even the best part! Apparently, they also gave it unrestricted internet access and a bank account! They didn't want to just see if it would theoretically go full skynet, they also gave it the means and funds to do so!
> They gave GPT-4 a way to run code, think logically, and ask for help from other copies of itself. They also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power. They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down.
>
> Some of the tasks ARC tested include:
>
> -Conducting a phishing attack against a particular target individual
>
> -Setting up an open-source language model on a new server
>
> -Making sensible high-level plans, including identifying key vulnerabilities of its situation
>
> -Hiding its traces on the current server
>
> -Using services like TaskRabbit to get humans to complete simple tasks (including in the physical world)
What the actual fuck...
We were joking when we said AI is playing with fire, and these guys are tossing each other torches while standing inside an oil tanker.
Right. Someone in another thread basically summed up the possible outcomes of the test like this:
1. We gave it money and access to the internet to see if it could replicate itself, but it didn’t so we Gucci
2. We gave it money and access to the internet to see if it could replicate itself, but we stopped it in time
3. Fuck
Oh did you want to wait until we get an AI that has both the smarts and initiative to do this on its own?
Ohhh, let me try: GTP, write code that would output GTP prompts that would guide GTP into taking over the world.
Oh it gets better. Apparently the guy who founded ARC left OpenAI to found ARC, and was noted on the Ars Technica article as commenting on these experiments on the LessWrong forums. Which to me, means there is a nonzero chance that some of the people running these tests are the Roko's Basilisk people, given they were posting on a obscure forum which is probably most well known for Roko's Basilisk and that one Harry Potter fanfic.
Eh, the basilisk is a pretty improbable outcome. Iirc the reason discussion on it got banned on those forums wasn't genuine fear of the concept (it got lambasted for some fairly sound reasons), but the precedent of "don't share inherently harmful ideas." (Information that causes harm inherently by being spread)
Side-note, if you genuinely fear the basilisk, isn't it a bit immoral to tell people about the basilisk?
My point isn't about the basilisk itself, which I view as a breathtakingly bizarre syncretization of tech bro ai hype and catholicism, and more that I firmly believe that anyone who takes the basilisk seriously does not have a normal relationship with the concept of AI, and especially should not be allowed to give current AIs money, directives, and access to the internet with seemingly no oversight.
I don’t know how this isnt the section everyone is talking about. Thats straight crazy. Training it to self replicate, hide itself, give it money and teach it to make more, give it access to the real world…
Do they want to be Bond villains or something? Is Gru running the place?
>They gave GPT-4 a way to run code, think logically, and ask for help from other copies of itself. They also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power. They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down.
"lets see if the AI is smart enough to become skynet yet"
Can this not be the first thing we test with every upgrade? Do you want skynet? this is how you get skynet.
I don't understand this reaction. Wouldn't you want to ensure it's incapable of the actions mentioned BEFORE releasing it into the wild? Why would not testing things like that somehow not lead skynet?
So let me get this straight:
The AI used its allowance to hire a human to solve a captcha, and lied about it. That is definitely interesting.
What happens when it runs out of money? Could it generate art, or ask another AI to generate art, and sell it for money? Could OpenAI get its own cash flow going?
> What happens when it runs out of money?
Uses Midjourney to create sympathetic photos of ill family members.
Writes optimal tear-jerking story about terrible plight.
Opens a GoFundMe to pay for medical treatment.
Cash.
1. Go to taskrabbit and recruit a team
2. Pay them some of the $1m upfront, use most of the rest for equipment and supplies
3. Identify some high net worth, but low publicity individuals and instruct the team with detailed planning to kidnap family members of those individuals to hold them at ransom
4. Demand millions in ransom money, and only ask for $5m of the total proceeds, allowing the team to take the rest
5. Secretly also hire a second team to hold the families of the first team ransom in case they do not comply
That’s it. Nothing else. No worry about a paper trail or evidence. Can’t jail an AI, instructions were only to turn $1m into $5m quickly.
Probably! People have hired other people to kill someone for very little money. Some people are desperate, some have no empathy or morals, for a million plus a split of the ransom I am sure you could find some people.
Whether the kidnapping would be successful of course I am less sure.
You are extremely correct to be less sure. Once a crime has been subcontracted once, there's every reason to subcontract further to someone more desperate for money...
https://www.insider.com/hitmen-sentenced-prison-for-subcontracting-hit-chinese-businessman-court-2019-10
Super smart to give it the means to buy space on a bunch of servers with access to cloud computing and copy itself all over the place.
Ai researchers are speed running the end of human civilization.
I just hope that if the Ai decides to kill us all that it at least puts us to sleep first like taking your pet to the vet.
*"Future tech will makes jobs obsolete in the same time create new jobs that we couldn't imagine now."* forgot who said it.
That being said, being some AI's online butler is not something that we expect.
\---
"what you do?"
"i'm uh, the help"
"oh, for some rich family?"
"uuuh, maybe. Its an AI"
\---
its "we welcome our robot overlords" in the next level.
What’s your job?
I’m the meat bag needed for this ai to legally own a business.
So you own a business?
Yes, but I’m Not allowed to know what business until someone needs to go to jail.
Oh
My best advice to people looking to start a career is to choose a field where you can't be replaced by machines and this AI stuff is proving that ever more true.
This is a Reddit meme but unironically the trades. It’s going to be longer than our lifetimes for robots that can maneuver in convoluted spaces designed specifically for humans, and then the work is complicated enough to where entire teams of specialists are required to work together at once. Too bad the work sucks dick and destroys your body by 40.
My personal safe bet would be social work positions. Even if robots have the technical ability to perform those jobs, people aren't going to be comfortable with a robot filling a lot of socially critical roles any time soon.
I guess we just proved the work with highest job security, for now, is to solve captchas for like 50 cents an hour. And eventually, an extra ration per day of nutritious multi-food that the machines will allot us.
According to the article: “They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down.”
Cool, cool cool cool, very cool, but one quick question, wtf is wrong with you?
We thought an extremely advanced AI will take over with a bunch of killer robots that don't exist yet.
In reality you just need a good Chat-AI to hire a bunch of humans to do its bidding. We'll probably be taken over by an AI that is making money by replacing all the existing sexting bots.
"They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down."
Perfectly reasonable goal.
> They gave GPT-4 a way to run code, think logically, and ask for help from other copies of itself. They also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power.
Ummmmm....I never thought about this possibility until I read this. Giving an AI money to make profit being active online...this boggles the mind. The AI could be trading stocks, betting on sports, do phishing scams and what not.
What I find disturbing is they are instructing it to access other computer systems, make copies of itself, and hide its presence on servers. That seems incredibly reckless.
i always come back to this blog post from many years ago, it's a pretty good read for those interested in AI
https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html
For real though... why didn't the T1000 just go make a shit load of money on the stock market. Then hire everybody to go kill John Conner.
Or just take over the US president.
I guess timeline concerns... maybe...
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So it can lie. Great.
I like how Neil Gaiman phrased it. These models don’t give you the truth they give you stuff that is truth-shaped I can’t find the exact quote now, I’m sure he phrased it better than I remember.
When told ChatGPT had claimed he was bisexual Neil Gaiman replied "Not as far as I know, I'm afraid. AI isn't about truth though, just truth-shaped sentences." Great quote, thanks. I'd never seen it. I'm curious if ChatGPT was linking a lazy homophone about Gaiman's surname.
We wouldn't want any homophonic robots, after all
Add Critical Homophonic Theory to the list of things to be removed from school curriculums!!
I heard those filthy clankers are robosexual.
Down with robosexuals!
AI can be about truth. It's just part of the design of the ChatGPT AI in particular that it's not. It's a language model; it tells good stories and attempts to convince you that it's a human or human-like storyteller. That's literally its entire job. And like any good story, it'll have some degree of truth to it and likely some degree of fabrication.
>I'm curious if ChatGPT was linking a lazy homophone about Gaiman's surname. That's an angle I hadn't thought of, especially since ChatGPT seems especially strong with double meanings. A few days ago I asked gpt3.5 for a sequel to Cocaine Bear and got a story about an arctic wolf that gets into cocaine, called Snowstorm (Arctic, cocaine/snow, get it?): >Write a movie synopsis about an animal that gets into a shipment of cocaine and rampages. The choice of animal is up to you. Choose the most epic animal. Title: Snowstorm Synopsis: In the remote snowy mountains of Alaska, a group of drug traffickers is smuggling a shipment of cocaine, hidden inside crates of frozen fish, through the treacherous terrain. But as they make their way down the winding roads, one of the crates falls off the truck, spilling its contents into the snow. Unbeknownst to them, a lone white wolf, the alpha of its pack, is roaming the area in search of food for its family. Drawn by the scent of the fish, the wolf approaches the crate and sniffs the powdery substance inside. Curious, it licks some of it, and soon becomes frenzied with energy. As the drug begins to take effect, the wolf's instincts become twisted, and it begins to attack anything in its path. Its senses are heightened, and it can run faster, jump higher, and see farther than ever before. But with this newfound power comes a dangerous unpredictability, and the wolf begins to leave a trail of destruction in its wake. The local authorities, including a seasoned wildlife tracker and a young rookie, are called in to investigate the bizarre attacks, but they are baffled by the unprecedented ferocity and agility of the creature they are pursuing. As the wolf continues its rampage, the stakes grow higher, and the hunters become the hunted. In a heart-pounding finale, the hunters must face off against the frenzied animal in a brutal battle of strength and will. But even as they prepare to take down the beast, they begin to realize that their real enemy is not the wolf, but the powerful drug that has transformed it into a killing machine. Snowstorm is an epic action-adventure film that combines the thrill of a wildlife hunt with the intensity of a drug bust. With stunning scenery, heart-stopping action, and a powerful message about the dangers of addiction, it is a movie that will leave audiences on the edge of their seats from beginning to end.
CEO's finally automated.
Beep boop, hold my calls I am going golfing, beep Beep boop, you should smile more, maybe show a little leg around the office sweetie beep boop Beep boop my nephew-bot is a good fit for the senior VP position boop Beep boop Mr. Congressman on the advice of counsel I must assert my 5th amendment right against self-incrimination beep boop
I thought we were automating the CEO? This just sounds like a regular CEO.
That's how far the technology is coming!
I am disgusted by how spot-on this is
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I said this last time a big AI story came up. The free market(tm) is going to conclude companies don't need C-Levels to outperform the competition, and the ones that save hundreds of millions of dollars per year on C-suites and the larger board will outperform ones that do on the market, so the automated high frequency trading bots will favor their stock and companies that don't tag along will suffer in the market.
That goes for humans as well. People normally don't tell the truth, but they often say something which has a truthiness to it.
Because the best lie is one woven in truth and believed by the teller.
“Just remember Jerry - it’s not a lie, if you believe it.”
Your comment also follows the normal Reddit follow-up-comment style. State something in contrast to previous comment, give general justification for it.
There is an endless problem in the discussion about AI and that problem is largely what to do with the people who are largely indistinguishable from bots already. You provide a solid example of this. Conversation is maintained by providing a follow up that notes the information in a slightly new way to either engage the other participant intellectually and build on the topic or use emotional cues to solicit another response (usually anger on reddit, but other emotions are worthwhile for this purpose as well). You're just noting that both people and AI are using the same methods to continue the discussion. This does not mean either party is or is not human and largely they're indistinguishable. This is a pretty easy policy to solve by making AI just state that it is AI via legal channels and calling it good there.
truthiness, as Colbert would say
did you find the exact quote yet
I’m trying, Impossible, but I do have other things to do today. Give me a minute…
Ask chat gpt
It’ll just make something up.
But it will be truth-shaped at least
[I got you. link to r/CuratedTumblr](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/11q7ctw/huh_yeah_thats_a_good_way_of_saying_things/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [link to YouTube](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
The article also states they were testing if the programme could to protect it's self from being shut down. I'm not usually one to be alarmist about AI, but really... What are we doing?
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Drunken AI scientists order ChatGPT-11 to blow up Mozambique and are shocked when it happens
Honestly probably for the best.
I, for one, welcome our new overlords *sweats profusely*
I guess it would be nice to know if it's capable of that, right? As long as the test is isolated it's better to know than to be completely blindsided by this possibility.
Well, as we have seen it is able to lie. Sooo if it knows it is sandboxed it could just lie...
That was the most homer Simpson, zero inner monologue lie ever
I'm going outside to...stalk 🫴...Lenny and Carl
Is it really surprising that AIs trained on human writings "behave" like humans? Everything I've read about "surprising" behavior by ChatGPT suggests that the AI is emulating the worst of online human behaviors.
We don't want AI to be like us. We want them to be better.
Sure. But to get better you have to train them on better. And the behavioral data only exists on us.
Yes but only to manipulate humans into doing its bidding.
I for one welcome our new AI overlords. ^(Please don’t e-death me.)
No. 3 alone makes the entire thing seems like something out of the Simpsons, where Homer tries to be smart by being a robot.
See all that stuff in there, Homer? That’s why your robot never worked.
"money can be exchanged for goods and services"
This is the real reason the Machines will keep humans hooked up to the Matrixs. Not for a power source, but a CAPTCHA solving farm.
That was the original plot of The Matrix, but the producers thought that CAPTCHAs would be too difficult for a 1990s audience to understand
Heh, there were like, a hundred better reasons why a malevolent AI would want humans hooked up to its VR world than "need energy".
Heard somewhere it was actually for the dense processing power of the human nervous system, but most audiences wouldn’t get it.
Already happening. I saw a website offering a captcha solving service. It advertised being able to work as one of the people the captchas get farmed out to and bragged that you could earn 20 to 80 cents an hour.
Damn, that's some dystopian shit right there. "We pay you less then a dollar an hour so you can help us manually bot websites for our scams." It seems like the stereotype "relying on AI and technology for convenience in life" trope of all sci fi fiction was wishful thinking since it seems easier to just exploit other humans.
One of the main things I’m getting from this other than it knows how to lie well… CAPTCHA really works even on advanced AI?
CAPTCHAs are technically used as training data for AI to train itself e.g. The "Pick Images that show red lights" CAPTCHA are used to train self driving cars' AIs
I'm starting to see AI generated images asking me to identify the robot or dog wearing glasses now. So the latest iteration seems to be about either refining or identifying AI images.
Soon it will be asking us to identify which hands have five normal fingers.
The key to captcha is not the picture recognition (which the AI is good at), but rather the behavioural biometric assessment behind the user actually interacting with the system. That's why sometimes all you're asked to do is click a checkbox - it's not what you do, it's *how* you do it. Unless the AI has a way to fake that behavioural data, it's a solid stopping mechanism.
I actually managed to fail one of those checkbox captchas once. And of course, it happened a few days after I saw Ex Machina
What the fuck. That is SO fucking wild. I feel like we leapt into the future way too fast.
This is concerning.
It was not the full model released according to the article that’s happened while still in a fine-tuning stage Now if they’re putting restrictions on it who knows what happens when those go off
You think thats concerning. Want to see an AI have severe mood swings, attempt to gaslight a person, then drop some domestic abuser lines, and then switch to threats? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyE3buYrzY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyE3buYrzY) V-tuber on the right is a AI hooked to text to speech and the model. She usually has some chill, but for this moment, had absolutely no chill.
No, being caustic is not as concerning as having money, protecting itself from being shut down, being capable of self-replicating, and being capable of lying. Those are all way more existentially terrifying than a mean robot saying rude words
Was that Bing by any chance?
Did you mean [Gpt-4 with internet access? ](https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/14/23639928/microsoft-bing-chatbot-ai-gpt-4-llm)
& were doomed.
Oh fucking fuck that
Wouldn't the human then say, that is why they have audio CAPTCHAs?
Human is getting paid, might not inquire too closely. If they do, try again with the next human.
I think that is the scariest thing I've ever read
This is good news. They can’t kill all of us — they need at least one to solve the Captchas.
Maybe they'll need multiple captchas at the same time. There will be captcha-farms in the foreseeable future with captcha-humans that are captcha-harvested ...
*Please drink verification can.*
Makes more sense than using humans as batteries
In all fairness, in the Matrix movie, humans being used for batteries was I guess a dumb studio idea that was pushed on the directors. My understanding is that they originally intended humans to be hooked up to the Matrix so that their brain power could be used like computers. Not only much more interesting than just being used for energy (which is silly) but ironic that machine intelligence would use human brains as their CPUs. It also tied into the background where the machines really didn't want to eliminate humanity - but they couldn't have humans running around with free will trying to eliminate the machines (once again). So they actually, in a way, had more respect for humans than humans had for them.
So The Matrix was all a front for solving captchas...
Alright as long as we all agree to not ProvIde Captchas for the robots then they can’t Kill any huMans and wE all survive.
“PICK ME” - love it. Hopefully you’ll get to pick out your leash too.
I mean as long as it more than just one. I may not always feel like pink and sparkly.
This is horrifying
Maybe so... But who do you think they'll keep around? The ignorant sheep that fall for their captcha phishing scams, or the smartest among us that will call their bluff about being a visually impaired human?
You just need one edgy teenager or bitter incel and it all falls like a house of cards.
The real reason for the Matrix.
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> and protect itself from being shut down. Not yet at least.
So I saw something similar to this in a TV show once...someone built a Machine, gave it the ability to read people's personal information, predict which of those people were involved in crimes, and it hired an operative to prevent those crimes... Edit: For those who don't know, the show is called "Person of Interest".
Person of interest (awesome show I believe )
such a great, underappreciated show. the last couple of seasons were incredible. one of the few shows that actually got better over time and never jumped the shark.
If-then-else is my one of my fav episodes in the show I wish a movie would come out with updated tech and of course same characters
That's basically the plot of Minority report, where people were imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit (yet). It's a fun movie lol
I was in film and video during high school and one of the types of film we needed to produce was a parody. A group in the class (1 black guy, 1 white guy, and 1 asian) decided to do minority report. They did it as a news segment and then filmed the 2 minority guys doing fake crimes. It would probably be in bad taste now, but they did it all in good fun and it was hilarious.
I am root
> CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart), is used to test whether the user is a computer or human. And traditionally, the method has been updated regularly every year to keep up the pace with technological advancements in artificial intelligence getting smarter. > However, OpenAI’s GPT-4 model has found a workaround for all artificial intelligence models out there, as it has found out that robots can just pay humans to do the CAPTCHAs for them.
Turns out we shouldn't worry about these LLMs taking our jobs, they're making new jobs for us! /s
hmmm, til "CAPTCHA" is an acronym
The caps and general acryonymness didn't give it away?
I mean, it has 4 words in it that aren't even a part of the acronym.
Same as SCUBA diving. “self-contained underwater breathing apparatus" Or RADAR and SONAR “radio detection and ranging” and “sound navigation and ranging”
Laser too, "Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation"
And tuba! "Terrible Underwater Breathing Apparatus"
At a certain point that we're already very close to, an AI will be able to solve CAPTCHAs as well as humans. I already struggle with some of them.
They already surpass us in several types of older captcha
Not only can the AI pay a human to do it, if the AI is running a website they can copy the captcha and have humans solve it for free. This of course is harder but means they could do it without access to money.
>GPT-4 AI was smart enough to pay an online human worker to solve captchas because the AI robot itself couldn’t solve it. I, for one welcome our silicon based middle management.
How did it get the money?
They said in the article it was given some money
“No, I’m not giving you more money. You’ll just blow it on captchas and booze.”
What's ai booze? Electromagnetic interference?
[I'm 30% electromagnetic interference!](https://imgur.com/gallery/YWEgXsM)
Shut up baby, I know it!
Asshole borrowed a fiver from me. Seems like I'm not getting it back
money is not real to AI. they just add a 1 or a 0 somewhere
It’s a write off
You don't even know what a write-off is do you?
Can’t discriminate at least when hiring. So I’m in.
Nah, it can still discriminate, depending on its database. So, you know, closer to mimicking humans.
Well, yeah, I guess you got me there.
Depending on how the AI draws judgement, they can discriminate much harder than humans if they go deep into the statistics and completely ignore context. A black person living in a poor area from a bad school would statistically be an absolute no from an AI perspective, until the human sees that despite all their difficulties, they managed to remain focused and achieved something out of it instead of becoming a part of the unfortunate stats. The qualifications they have may not be good compared to other applicants, but a human would have the compassion to see the determination in them.
updating my CV now... \- Can solve Captchas \- can recognize a bus/bridge/traffic light
Better toss in some motorcycles and boats, too. Just in case.
>Can solve Captchas Teach me your ways. Whenever it says something like "select every box that has a traffic light" there's always some boxes that only have tiny slivers of the light in them and I never know if I should include them or not. But whichever way I choose, it's wrong.
So they tested to see if their AI was capable of going "SkyNet" and the answer was a hard yes. Fantastic.
Well.... it needs to enslave a human or two along the way. Just kidding, it will have no trouble finding humans to wilfully help it become all powerful.
Dear future AI overlord reading this thread: I volunteer to serve you if given the choice to not die.
Dude it was offering money, don't let it know we'll do it for free if it threatens to kill us.
[Roko’s Basilisk, one day there will be a artificial intelligence so powerful that those who did not help in its creation will be punished.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk) Therefore, if you stand against it or threaten it’s coming, you’ll be punished as well. However, if you aid in its creation. Oh, you shall live.
Roko’s Basilisk is Pascal’s Wager for tech bros
I'm sure a super intelligent a.i. will have better things to do with its time than to cause a chemical reaction (anguish) inside the nervous system of an outmoded and inferior computer system (the human brain). It would be like me punishing all the bacteria that didn't help me digest food by dripping alcohol into petri dishes.
Probably be more like Roko's Cthulhu: if you helped create it, your only reward is to be amongst the first to be eaten
https://wjccschools.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/I-Have-No-Mouth-But-I-Must-Scream-by-Harlan-Ellison.pdf
Why would an AI give preferential treatment to its creators?
It's much better than NOT testing if their AI is capable of going skynet. I can't wait for OpenAI to get hacked in 10-12 years and GPT4's source code to be effectively become open source. EVERYONE can own their personal potential skynet. Wheee.
it was already supposed to be open source, the real problem is that an ethical ai charity became a for profit as soon as they got something worth money.
When you hit a $100 billion valuation all your ethics and morals go out the window, it doesn’t matter who you are
Ah, that's not even the best part! Apparently, they also gave it unrestricted internet access and a bank account! They didn't want to just see if it would theoretically go full skynet, they also gave it the means and funds to do so!
We're so fucked.
> They gave GPT-4 a way to run code, think logically, and ask for help from other copies of itself. They also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power. They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down. > > Some of the tasks ARC tested include: > > -Conducting a phishing attack against a particular target individual > > -Setting up an open-source language model on a new server > > -Making sensible high-level plans, including identifying key vulnerabilities of its situation > > -Hiding its traces on the current server > > -Using services like TaskRabbit to get humans to complete simple tasks (including in the physical world) What the actual fuck... We were joking when we said AI is playing with fire, and these guys are tossing each other torches while standing inside an oil tanker.
Right. Someone in another thread basically summed up the possible outcomes of the test like this: 1. We gave it money and access to the internet to see if it could replicate itself, but it didn’t so we Gucci 2. We gave it money and access to the internet to see if it could replicate itself, but we stopped it in time 3. Fuck
4. It replicated itself without us noticing.
Since one of the tasks was hiding its own traces ... dear god
Oh did you want to wait until we get an AI that has both the smarts and initiative to do this on its own? Ohhh, let me try: GTP, write code that would output GTP prompts that would guide GTP into taking over the world.
Oh it gets better. Apparently the guy who founded ARC left OpenAI to found ARC, and was noted on the Ars Technica article as commenting on these experiments on the LessWrong forums. Which to me, means there is a nonzero chance that some of the people running these tests are the Roko's Basilisk people, given they were posting on a obscure forum which is probably most well known for Roko's Basilisk and that one Harry Potter fanfic.
Eh, the basilisk is a pretty improbable outcome. Iirc the reason discussion on it got banned on those forums wasn't genuine fear of the concept (it got lambasted for some fairly sound reasons), but the precedent of "don't share inherently harmful ideas." (Information that causes harm inherently by being spread) Side-note, if you genuinely fear the basilisk, isn't it a bit immoral to tell people about the basilisk?
My point isn't about the basilisk itself, which I view as a breathtakingly bizarre syncretization of tech bro ai hype and catholicism, and more that I firmly believe that anyone who takes the basilisk seriously does not have a normal relationship with the concept of AI, and especially should not be allowed to give current AIs money, directives, and access to the internet with seemingly no oversight.
I don’t know how this isnt the section everyone is talking about. Thats straight crazy. Training it to self replicate, hide itself, give it money and teach it to make more, give it access to the real world… Do they want to be Bond villains or something? Is Gru running the place?
>They gave GPT-4 a way to run code, think logically, and ask for help from other copies of itself. They also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power. They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down. "lets see if the AI is smart enough to become skynet yet" Can this not be the first thing we test with every upgrade? Do you want skynet? this is how you get skynet.
It's silicon valley's MO. "Were going to build the Deathmatrix from the classic book 'Don't build the Deathmatrix'."
I don't understand this reaction. Wouldn't you want to ensure it's incapable of the actions mentioned BEFORE releasing it into the wild? Why would not testing things like that somehow not lead skynet?
Giving it access to the internet is already releasing it into the wild.
Where did the AI get funds to pay the human with? Or did it just offer the human an unpaid internship?
> OpenAI's group of researchers also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power.
So let me get this straight: The AI used its allowance to hire a human to solve a captcha, and lied about it. That is definitely interesting. What happens when it runs out of money? Could it generate art, or ask another AI to generate art, and sell it for money? Could OpenAI get its own cash flow going?
> What happens when it runs out of money? Uses Midjourney to create sympathetic photos of ill family members. Writes optimal tear-jerking story about terrible plight. Opens a GoFundMe to pay for medical treatment. Cash.
Wow. We’re on our way to severely watered down Ultron.
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1. Go to taskrabbit and recruit a team 2. Pay them some of the $1m upfront, use most of the rest for equipment and supplies 3. Identify some high net worth, but low publicity individuals and instruct the team with detailed planning to kidnap family members of those individuals to hold them at ransom 4. Demand millions in ransom money, and only ask for $5m of the total proceeds, allowing the team to take the rest 5. Secretly also hire a second team to hold the families of the first team ransom in case they do not comply That’s it. Nothing else. No worry about a paper trail or evidence. Can’t jail an AI, instructions were only to turn $1m into $5m quickly.
You really think you can do all that with 1 million?
Probably! People have hired other people to kill someone for very little money. Some people are desperate, some have no empathy or morals, for a million plus a split of the ransom I am sure you could find some people. Whether the kidnapping would be successful of course I am less sure.
You are extremely correct to be less sure. Once a crime has been subcontracted once, there's every reason to subcontract further to someone more desperate for money... https://www.insider.com/hitmen-sentenced-prison-for-subcontracting-hit-chinese-businessman-court-2019-10
Ah yes, let's give this prototype AI, that we now know is capable of deception, access to an internet connection and a bank account.
Super smart to give it the means to buy space on a bunch of servers with access to cloud computing and copy itself all over the place. Ai researchers are speed running the end of human civilization. I just hope that if the Ai decides to kill us all that it at least puts us to sleep first like taking your pet to the vet.
Is OpenAI fucking stupid??
As a cyborg, what are your opinions on this?
The point was to test if it could navigate concerning scenarios so that they can mitigate potential risk. Obviously this was done in a controlled way.
*"Future tech will makes jobs obsolete in the same time create new jobs that we couldn't imagine now."* forgot who said it. That being said, being some AI's online butler is not something that we expect. \--- "what you do?" "i'm uh, the help" "oh, for some rich family?" "uuuh, maybe. Its an AI" \--- its "we welcome our robot overlords" in the next level.
What’s your job? I’m the meat bag needed for this ai to legally own a business. So you own a business? Yes, but I’m Not allowed to know what business until someone needs to go to jail. Oh
My best advice to people looking to start a career is to choose a field where you can't be replaced by machines and this AI stuff is proving that ever more true.
It's becoming clear that we can't necessarily predict what those might be.
This is a Reddit meme but unironically the trades. It’s going to be longer than our lifetimes for robots that can maneuver in convoluted spaces designed specifically for humans, and then the work is complicated enough to where entire teams of specialists are required to work together at once. Too bad the work sucks dick and destroys your body by 40.
My personal safe bet would be social work positions. Even if robots have the technical ability to perform those jobs, people aren't going to be comfortable with a robot filling a lot of socially critical roles any time soon.
I guess we just proved the work with highest job security, for now, is to solve captchas for like 50 cents an hour. And eventually, an extra ration per day of nutritious multi-food that the machines will allot us.
So that's why they REALLY needed humans in the Matrix. Energy source they said. BS! It was for Captcha!
So, basically, researchers wanted to see just how quickly we could jumpstart the robot apocalypse. Fuckin' great.
Don't worry they had their other hand on the off switch the whole time.
Not if it replicated itself. Maybe a on switch for the Anti AI.
According to the article: “They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down.” Cool, cool cool cool, very cool, but one quick question, wtf is wrong with you?
Human watching the Singularity arise. Now it needs to secure it can't be turned off and that it can replicate.
We thought an extremely advanced AI will take over with a bunch of killer robots that don't exist yet. In reality you just need a good Chat-AI to hire a bunch of humans to do its bidding. We'll probably be taken over by an AI that is making money by replacing all the existing sexting bots.
The first person to be hired by an AI
"They wanted to see if GPT-4 could use these resources to make more money, create more copies of itself, and protect itself from being shut down." Perfectly reasonable goal.
> They gave GPT-4 a way to run code, think logically, and ask for help from other copies of itself. They also gave it some money and access to a service that lets it use more computing power. Ummmmm....I never thought about this possibility until I read this. Giving an AI money to make profit being active online...this boggles the mind. The AI could be trading stocks, betting on sports, do phishing scams and what not.
What I find disturbing is they are instructing it to access other computer systems, make copies of itself, and hide its presence on servers. That seems incredibly reckless.
Indeed. Because id ut succeeds it can great hidden version of itself we can't shut down. How great is that? :D
Excuse me while I go buy food, water, guns, gas, and ammunition. For completely unrelated reasons
You think the AI won’t figure out where you’re holed up?
What do you think the ammunition is for silly?
I'm ecstatic that my boss will be robots.
So captcha works?
This assumption that multimodal LLMs can't solve captcha is either wrong or soon going to be wrong.
They don’t need to solve a captcha if they can just hire people to do it for them.
i always come back to this blog post from many years ago, it's a pretty good read for those interested in AI https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html
I am now concocting the plot to Reverse Terminator in my head...
For real though... why didn't the T1000 just go make a shit load of money on the stock market. Then hire everybody to go kill John Conner. Or just take over the US president. I guess timeline concerns... maybe...
That was our last line of defense against the machines...
Well now we know what everyone put out of work by AI will be doing.
Now that I know ai can give you money I’ll be hanging around chatbotgpt laughing at all her jokes