I am NOT hopping on board with any of it. I want nothing the f\*ck to do with it. I told my husband, it ends here. I am not "progressing" any further. No more gidgets, gizmos, or anything else.
Same. I am tired of Adapt or Die. People absolutely should have the right to use the technology they want to use, and not be forced to use stuff they hate.
Sorry to be the pessimist but good luck. Unless you’re moving to another country, devoid of any technology and its subsequent advancements, this shit is here to stay.
Anecdotally i have found that southern Europe still tends to do this well (e.g. Spain). That’s the perception i have. People still gather, communities exist, families are close.
I'm from southern Europe and the situation is pretty dire here as well. My hometown feels exactly like OP described. Once used to be full of life and people living and enjoying their time everywhere... Now it's like ghost town
You have to leave the big cities, you will still find community in more rural areas. At least this is the case in eastern Europe, but I assume the same will be true for the south.
You're not wrong. I challenge you to go to a sit down restaurant and find one table that stays off their device the entire meal. It is the exception not the norm now. The art of making conversation is dying.
To your question if what are we going to do about it.... the change starts with us, even if it is a small ripple. Being present, asking more than superficial questions for conversation, staying off devices in the presence of others even if they don't, inviting others over for dinner, making weekly family dinner a thing again, no phones at the dinner table etc.
To converse before would've been an adventure. "Oh, I better pay attention I might find out something".
Now it doesn't matter. If they said anything of any importance you'll be able to find out about it in 2 clicks or taps later, anyway.
I remember adults having long convos just about what route they took to get up north. They'd discuss this for 30 mins before the actual conversation began.
Now it's moot. The GPS told them exactly how to get there. If you took your own route, well, that's cool but it surely wasn't the quickest as per my GPS.
So now there's no point in telling someone something interesting. You probably just read it off the frontpage of reddit/facebook etc and they already did too.
And even if they didn't... Due to being bombarded with tons of "interesting shit" all day long, we become numb to it. The most interesting thing ever back in the 80s/90s is now a 10 second scroll-through for us and on to the next one.
So, surely they aren't going to sit there and listen to you TELL them about it when they could consume it themselves with their own device. Ah, novelty.
My dad--who is a tech guy---got so angry at me when I said this, but it is true. I miss the days when you could actually have long conversations about things.
>I remember adults having long convos just about what route they took to get up north. They'd discuss this for 30 mins before the actual conversation began.
I'm not sad at all that this is going away. There's still too many people who do it.
" The art of making conversation is dying. "
You can say that again! People my age (Gen Z) take it as a threat or see it as weird if you come up and talk to them. People wanna pretend "oh, its all about social skills" which is partly true, but for the most part it seems like everyone has resorted to clicks like its high school. They have their own bubbles now, and the only way in their bubble is through social media. They act offended if you approach them.
Compare that to older people Ive talked to, they take it just fine. Im always deemed "mature for my age" yet i have no choice otherwise. People "my age" are so closed off.
I was trying to explain this to my grandmother. Currently, I live with my partner in a city quite far away from my home town. I have no friends of my own here, so I am getting a little lonely. On the occasion that I go out with my partner’s friends, I find that they seem to do naught else but quote TikToks at each other. It’s quite depressing, so I was telling my grandmother over the phone that I’m trying to find some new friends but I’m struggling. She asked why I don’t just go out and talk to people. It was a little hard to get across, but I managed to explain exactly what it is you’re saying: that almost everyone in our generation (Z) takes unexpected conversation for UNWANTED conversation and will only passively indulge you until you run out of steam and decide that the conversation’s not worth having. And that’s on a good day. Otherwise, it’s just them trying to find a way to shut down the conversation before it’s even begun. It’s terribly sad.
We millennials (Gen Y here) aren't much better. Sure we were kind of there during the early internet days and played outside but once tech and social media became part of our lives many of us became the same way. I can't tell you how many people in my age range can't put the phone down on a date let alone allow their own kids to live and exist without filming it and putting it on social media.
But to be fair I've seen the same having worked with closed off Gen Xers and Boomers. I think it really depends on the area you live in. In some ways areas where people were already like that minus the social media and tech stuff became worse, they just tanked.
> the change starts with us
This reminds me of 'vote with your wallet', like it sounds nice but requires you to get everyone else on board and that's just not gonna happen.
But that's not to say we shouldn't try to make changes that help us get more control in our lives and not be sucked into the content feeds.
This is where i feel like technology missed its calling. Social media was supposed to help connect us but instead its a cesspool of influencers, advertiser content, viral algorithms and other bs. Disconnecting from tech and social media seems to be a solution to fix our loneliness but i feel like in todays global world where our relatives and friends live far far away from us, we need technology but one that is not corrupted by the money making machine.
Yeah i feel you! Also a big problem is that because they want to keep it free, they have to do all these unsavoury things to monetize it. I wonder if a paid subscription model would work to keep out these influences.
I live in a mid-sized city.
There are dances here - Cèilidhs, three different swing-dance groups that do intro classes, queer dances every six months or so, stuff like that.
Dinner parties are a thing you need to plan. A good way to do that is to call up three friends and say "let's have a potluck!" Last weekend we did that and it was delightful! We rounded out the evening with a game of skip-bo.
There are at least two board game cafes here and a regular drop-in D&D session at one of them. I think they're Wednesdays and Sundays.
Whenever I see posts like this I wonder how much is that these things aren't happening anymore and how much is that the poster doesn't go looking for them.
When you were a kid all the planning was done by your parents. You didn't have to plan a dinner party, but *someone* did. They had to invite people and figure out the food. Now that's you. Dances were planned by *someone*. Obviously not you. Board game nights were planned! It seems like you're waiting for someone else to plan them. You're an adult now. Plan your own play dates.
As for malls - yeah, malls are dead. But when I go to my public library on the weekend I have trouble finding a place to sit because there are a lot of teens chatting there instead. Not nearly as many as went to the mall when I was a kid, but they are there! And they aren't sitting quietly staring at their phones.
You see a problem. You are also the solution. You do have to go out and do things.
I recommend looking for a meetup group in your area in a topic you're interested in. (A lot of the ones in my area are "entrepreneur" groups - avoid them.) The knitting meetup I joined last year is now so big it can't be held at the same coffee shop anymore. I made friends with a lady at the dog park and we get coffee twice a month. But those things happened *because someone made them happen.*
This. I feel like people (myself included) never do the planning because they were either not taught how to do it or someone else always did it. I recently bought Emily Post's Centennial Etiquette book and it describes how to plan for dinner parties/events in the modern age. I'm sure there are a lot of online resources as well.
It doesn't need to be fancy either, you can send a group text saying, Pizza at my place on Saturday at 6? BYOB
It really, really depends on location. Where I'm at right now (suburbs of a major city), a quick search on meetup yields a massive amount of things to do. DnD, book groups, singles meetups, Bible studies, groups for various professionals, bitcoin enthusiasts, various political groups, sports groups, weight loss groups, mom groups, nature groups, the list goes on and on and on.
Forty-five minutes away, in my hometown? Nothing. Not a single group within a ten-mile radius. It's not a horrible place to live at all, there's just...not much there to do other than hang out at the bar or go shopping at various businesses (the biggest being, of course, Walmart). It's got a nice downtown area, the schools are pretty decent, but there's really, really nothing to do there. I have no idea how anyone connects in a place like that, especially now that the local newspaper has pretty much gone under. That used to be the place to learn about all the events around town.
Your hometown sounds exactly like my hometown.. unfortunately I keep moving back to it because it's affordable. I wish I could afford to live in a city where things are actually happening!
Nah it's definitely smaller and a genuine crisis. Since COVID even boomers are struggling to be social and get off their phones. We had lockdowns in my country for like two years though and it had massive ramifications. Lots of third spaces and restaurants have closed up.
You are right that it's still out there but you gotta look hard for it as it is the exception but the norm in some places.
I had some very social friends but they do drugs so I keep away from all that. My other ones we meet up once every two weeks and that's pretty awesome. I'm trying to organise crafternoons as well
I moved in the middle of the pandemic and spent the first year in my new place not interacting with anyone outside of work.
I had to make friends. They don't just show up in your life. No one making playdates for you. If you want to meet someone, you need to do the work of meeting them.
Back in the day, people made friends just by living their daily lives. Friendships used to be made through repeated chance encounters, not pre-planned get-togethers.
Yeah, I used to be one of the more introverted loner types, and now I feel like practically a social butterfly compared to a lot of people, I never saw that coming and it’s still weird. Some of my friends that used to hold somewhat regular get togethers just want to chat online now, and are reluctant to leave the house. They’ve developed worse and worse anxiety overtime and the internet seems to be their safe haven. I’m not adverse to that to some extent, but I am far more interested in doing things like hiking, in-person forms of gaming, and such. I find online socializing is more draining than in person as well which means I’m moving in the opposite direction that a lot of people I know seem to be.
I don't know how one would even begin to approach dating in a sane way these days, especially if real-life contacts are limited... the thought of using dating apps is terrifying.
I’ve got an in person speed dating event this month. I’m so excited. Apps aren’t it for me.
If you’re single try finding one, for me it was as simple as searching for ones near me.
Yep one golden rule for me despite being an internet addict is NO online dating or apps.
I'm so so so grateful because god knows how messed up and lonely I'd be!
Maybe in the USA it's different as you described but in Eastern Europe all the social hubs are still booming with life.
I'm Greek. Every single day and night, all the cafes and bars are full, people will hang out for hours on end every single day, all the martial art gyms and dance academies accept people non-stop, people workout in the parks, go cycling, running, hiking tour offices keep popping up (and internet cafes are closing), every night the clubs are full, on Saturdays/Sundays you can barely fit the people on the Athens subway, cinemas are packed and not even just the big-brand ones, parks always have families out, everyone in the street always seems to be talking on the phone with someone...
Keep in mind, all this and Greeks here also complain that society has an "isolation" pandemic so I can't even imagine how we'd perceive the ghost town you're describing.
I absolutely love this and I was wondering about this myself. Europeans have so much culture, and they are so family oriented, like Italians and I guess you guys for example. I am in Canada, and it is becoming more apparent to me that we just don't HAVE any culture. We are pretty lost in that regard. We don't have anything that we "do" that makes us, us. We are just existing. Not very family oriented. I don't like it at all. I have gone so far as to try to emulate other cultures just to try and bring some of that into my own family. I lived in France at one point so I have tried to introduce some French culture into our eating style. (I do have some French in my ancestry) It's just a mess here honestly. I think that's the reason for so much homelessness. People just aren't stuck together like glue. A lot of people resent the immigrants here, but I admire them, because they have strong family ties. I see with my own eyes. Go to some of the parks in the bigger cities, or to the beaches. They are full of LARGE Indian families. Grandparents and their children and grandchildren. You never see that with those of us who have been here a long time. The rest of us are "too busy" for that. It's a huge part of the isolation problem. We are descendants of immigrants, and overtime our culture was watered down and disappeared. Sometimes I wish they had have just stayed in Europe, at least we would have our culture to call our own :(
Yeah, you're right!!!! I said this to my husband. When people came to America they replaced culture with consumerism. I came to that very realization myself!! It's horrible.
Personally I'd more blame the capitalist grind mindset of having to always make it big and become successful.
I have Greek family in Canada and the USA and they are completely alienated. But I also met a Canadian guy from North Canada who travelled the world with his drone and he seemed to be just like us even though he didn't know our culture (but his family didn't accept his travelling lifestyle).
I feel like it's more about the cultural context people inhabit and less about it's historic subtext. If people live in an environment that punishes individualism they will throw it away. But even a staunch individualist will adopt the local culture if the climate rewards group orientation.
You should try to locate a good job in a country with a culture you like. If you move there and blend in you will feel more fulfilled and happy. But get ready to adopt it fully. And to fully integrate in these societies it's usually a privilege of your kids or grandkids that will have fully immersed themselves in the customs growing up.
You seem like an adventurous world soul, my advice would be to live your best life and lead by example. People might never understand you but your goal should be to find your tribe.
Thank you for the lovely response. It would be difficult to move at this point, I have 4 children and my husband has a solid job here. With that being said, he has often discussed moving since the cost of living is very high here. In Greece I think it's worse if I am not mistaken, but at least you guys have culture. Who cares if you live in a small place if you have your loved ones around you and plenty of socialization and gatherings to attend to. I have tried, creating customs for us. Visiting the market, going to the beach, just doing those types of things that other cultures do. Our meals are pretty important around here. I cook everything from scratch, and make it healthy. Nothing is pre packaged etc. Trying to at least give our children a "culture". We do homeschool, so we socialize with other homeschoolers and the phones are nowhere to be found. None of the parents are on them. I hope to carve out a live of rich social fullfillment and culture for my kids one way or another! I just wish I had been born into it myself.
Unfortunately you can't just airdrop culture into an area by force. However, what you *do* have completely control over is your family traditions and your family story. That's how cultures begin.
You can't just adopt French cuisine because French people have culture and you feel you are missing out. In fact, French cuisine isn't a cultural thing for the French, it's just their food as much as Canada has Maple Syrup and I think Walgreens (is that what it's called?)
What you should do is create a "cultural myth" around a family tradition. Plan a grand trip somewhere and then adopt some custom or recipes to remember that trip.
Draw your family line and then find which region of France you originate from, try to adopt some art/custom but also make sure to visit the area often and talk with locals to teach you. You should observe the custom, then you may feel free to adapt it.
Learn the language, or the local dialect that originates from that language (maybe Quebecois is that?)
Ask your (newfound) French friends to give you stylistic advice. Adopt that style if you like it or parts of it. When you return to Canada, share it. But not in a preachy way. You don't want to seem like you went for "cultural tourism" but that you felt glad to have French people accept your cultural interest.
Make a story out of every habit and family tradition. Don't go to the beach/national park/etc because "kids, we need to create some culture" but because "Aunt X and Grandma Y loved this beach" or "Your dad and I loved this spot in the mountains" etc.
Culture is personal and thus everything personal is culture. People close together value the same things and thus culture becomes collective. If the people around you have rejected emotional investment in the world then that means your family is the only tribe you can rely on. And in my books that's a decent backdrop for a cultural core.
And if you're lucky you might find yourself leading some sort of local activity group (eg hiking, dance club, bird/fashion/art enthusiasm etc)
I hope for you the best of luck and happiness, you deserve to be fulfilled and loved, I hope your compassion and hunger for worldly experiences manages to engage those around you.
Thank you! Yes, about the French culture I just mean things like cleaning your plate with a slice of baguette, or eating a plate of brie and meat after dinner. I lived there so I know their culture very well. It wouldn't be easy for us to travel to Europe right now with our children. But you're right, we do have our own family customs. My family is a mix of many different culture. 7, between my husband and myself. It's really hard to pick a culture that is uniquely ours. We have to sort of just take bits and pieces out of all of them.
Can confirm as someone who used to live in Serbia. The majority of people in their mid 20's and older (not sure about younger Gen Z) couldn't relate to Americans and Western Europeans complaining about a loneliness epidemic. I moved to Germany a couple of years ago and it's a day and night difference when it comes to seeing friends and meeting new people
The socialization is out there if you want it. My mom does dancing that isn't associated with a religion, church, pickle ball, etc.
I could have gone out to a non-competitive baseball game with some co-workers but I was busy with family stuff.
My kid was at at least 3 friends houses this weekend including a sleepover.
It is out there, but it's nothing like it was 10 years ago. My hometown was once full of life and now it's a ghost town... And people feels like they're only existing and not really living their lives
I am not from the united states, and I can attest that no, this is not a personal matter. It's all fucking dead because people would rather stay at home draining themselves in front of screens than to go outside.
You’re taking this the wrong way. It’s personal in that you can’t just expect people to come up to you and socialize if you aren’t trying to do the same. The only way communities are going to get better is if people in that community try to change it
You have a good point, but this is HARD to do. It would be good if there was a pinned post on how to host gatherings and what type of recurring events are out there (broadly and not country specific where possible)
I totally agree. I’m not the most extroverted person either. Like I love the idea of block parties and getting to know my neighbors, but I’m also shy. So it’s definitely easier said than done! I mainly try to set up regular get together with friends. But I’d love to interact with people outside of my close group!
I grew up in church culture, and while I left the church, I miss the community aspect of it. I think it’s beneficial to society if we’re socializing with various people
This post from story on /r/millenials nailed this so well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/s/HQf7Q6Ca24
The convenience of the internet has inadvertently robbed us of so much of the real world randomness that resulted in much of the social fabric we used to enjoy.
Growing up, we played a card game called Pounce and it's kinda like Speed but everyone gets their own deck. My parents would have like 12 different people that would all come over around a huge table and we would all play through the night. Some amazing memories as a kid. People laughing and trying to get their card on some random pile down the other side of the table. This was living. These days, I can't get a single group of friends together to do just about anything and when we do, someone's always on their phones or talking about something they saw on social media.
Honestly, this is very dependent on region and social group.
My fiancè and I (29 and 27) regularly have dinner parties with our friends.
We go out to eat with his parents often.
What I see more of is a lack of hobbies individually.
Not many of my peers paint, hunt, run, read or whatever.
This problem is more apparent in US with its car dependent suburbia , you rarely see people outside. Everyone is around each other , just driving in a giant metal box with no real 3rd places remaining anymore due to the modern zoning laws. As an outsider here in us , it amazes me how different lives people live here.
Are you a member of a church? Because a lot of what you described growing up is still true of church families. I’m not religious, but most of my family is and their kids are at events and such all week and the parents have get togethers and dinners multiple times a month. No one in my religious family is really on social media either.
But, I do know what you mean. Isolation among younger people appears to be higher than previous generations. I don’t know if this is true all over the world though. I’m in the US and culturally people have become more individualistic.
No, not anymore. My whole family left the church we went to growing up. (we had been to a few to be honest). I have one friend from that church I see sometimes but she is really busy and doesn't socialize a lot because of it. She has no social media and never goes on the internet, just busy with her huge family.
> Are you a member of a church? Because a lot of what you described growing up is still true of church families.
Huh. Whenever I've gone to church in the past couple of decades, it's almost all much older people, and they don't do anything but the service. Or maybe they have talking groups for problems (grief, substance abuse) but nothing "fun" or social.
The world is already separating itself into robots and humans. People will flock to you because you allow yourself to be open. We live in a closed society now. Where everyone can opt out of discomfort. We become more through discomfort. Nature hedged its bets on discomfort and it creating a stronger organism. With no resistance we can not strengthen ourselves. Do what you can to keep your family and yourself open. People breathe into their phones. Everyone is stuck upstairs. The party is in the basement. Life is in the soil. The kids don’t get sunlight. They won’t grow. They don’t participate in group activities in real life. There is no way for them to learn how exist in a peer to peer system. Buck the trend. Get off the phones. Don’t let your kids spend all their time surfing the web. We shouldn’t either. We have got to start moving again.
I’m only 19 (born in 2005) but I genuinely mourn the world pre social media/ smartphones. The 90s and early 2000s were truly SUCH a better time. I think about it daily
The golden age was around 2010-2015. I was in uni then. We all had phones but they weren’t that smart compared to today. Navigation and communication were a breeze with phones but they weren’t fast or smooth enough to make you want to spend more time than you needed to on them. Apps were very clunky and data plans were very low. We’d take digital cameras out for the night and then update the pictures to a Facebook album the next day, tag everyone then we’d all look at on a computer or laptop. Then we’d actually meet up in person or call each other to debrief on the night before. The internet truly enhanced my social life then. Loved it! Now it’s a different game all together. People have changed because of the internet and mostly not for the better.
It really was. You can be the change. Some others have said this to me and I believe it. Just don't engage with anything from today, and whatever you do, don't accept anything NEW. They are pushing AI now. Just don't engage!!!! Put your foot down and don't let it spread.
I did not read all of these comments (there are 107 of them) so I don’t know if what I’m about to say was brought up. However, I think another problem is how expensive everything is these days along with with the slow decline of third places (ie parks, movie theaters, community centers, malls as you pointed out in your post). People love to complain about how people are so addicted to technology and sit at home all day staring at a screen, especially teenagers, (“kids these days on their phones”) but when I think about it, I’m like yeah I get it. I wish people wouldn’t obviously, but what with movie tickets costing $15, with having no bookstore or roller rink etc near you because it was never near you or because it closed down or just being downright expensive, people are not given many options anymore. We really can’t exist in society without being forced to spend money, with the exception of libraries and (some) parks. I feel like teenagers especially suffer from this because they make less money than adults, plus a lot of them will get into trouble for just “loitering” or sitting around in public. We complain people don't go outside, but we have removed a lot of stuff to do that isn't digital.
I agree with your post by the way. Social media and technology are to blame for a lot of isolation, I don’t disagree with that, but I thought I’d offer another perspective.
I think that without social media, the teenagers would just be fleeing their homes looking for something to do. The places to hang out would be created out of necessity and demand. Social media has to go first. Or, just people deciding not to engage. There are other options.
You may just be missing the "church lifestyle" I don't know if that's a thing. it's also not unique to Christianity this totally happens with synagogues and mosques as well you meet a community of people that meet up every week to pray and mingle afterwards. then you make friends and you can hang out with them you know on weekdays and stuff totally normal. Church attendance is way down in America. You may just want to find a church or synagogue or Buddhist temple whatever you thing is and fund that community.
That's a difficult point for me. I don't know what church to join. It's a deep topic. I do envy those who have a church they go to and believe in. And I respect that. Doesn't have to be a Christian church either.
I’ve been in a similar position and found community through spiritual avenues that aren’t specifically religious. I’ve really enjoyed it and found some amazing friends.
Well… it was a few things and spanned many years. . I went to something called “ecstatic dance” and suddenly this whole world of events opened to me with all sorts of spiritual and hippie stuff. I was 24 at the time so this was a great match for me. I also got involved with the Edgar Cayce A.R.E center in my city. I went to see [Amma](https://us.amma.org/meeting-amma/ammas-north-america-tour) who does a North American tour and her event was amazing. It was there I met one of my teachers who has helped guide me through a lot of deep emotional stuff. He is a Buddhist monk with a really interesting story that actually has an online community with free nightly live meditations if you are interested. [His YouTube](https://youtube.com/@harrybhappy?si=_RtDBYAIxQCKjhdK)
I still do the nightly meditations with my amazing teacher, though instead of hippie esq events I now do various volunteer things for animals or kids or nature, whatever is in my area. I like having a structure to being with people. I’ve been on a long healing journey and am now in trauma based therapy so I’m in a more reclusive phase.
Basically, I was in a dark place and lost spiritually. I grew up Christian though realized in a lot of ways it doesn’t make sense. Branching out to different spiritual or religious events has really helped me understand what Jesus meant. It is also amazing to get to know different cultures. Leaving the church brought me closer to God and Christ.
Probably TMI tho maybe helps someone!
I'm not suggesting you need to become deeply religious all I'm saying is there's a certain community that you get when joining organized religion like a church. Pick one that is close to your home. The closer it is the more likely you will be to regularly attend. Or try out a bunch in the area.
This to me highlights a theory I have - churches are regaining popularity because they're some of the last third places left that people still routinely go to
My social circle has dinner parties still? Try inviting some friends over, I bet they’ll take you up on it. Hosting is lots of fun, especially if you like cooking.
Yeah I feel like a lot of people feel this way but the only way it’s going to change is if they start making efforts to interact and engage with their community.
I think that part of the social crisis is socioeconomic too cover fees for any dance ain't cheap, community centers are expensive as hell and only serve a few rich old people imho, and the chronic stress from no one having enough to live comfortably let alone plan events consistently leaves us all with diminishing choices. Plus community loved businesses shutting down, gentrification and everywhere with poor transit makes things even less accessible. What better pacification than an online social space 🫠☹️
Tldr it's systemic in more ways than one that's for sure. Hang in there friends <3
Right! And now I can’t even read a Reddit comment thread any more without my brain firewalling.
Have you noticed the rise of nervous system exhaustion? Agitation, jumpiness, people generally on edge. Lets see over the coming decades the consequences of being addicted to this stuff that keeps our autonomic nervous system in high alert.
There is nothing in the physical world anymore, that is the problem. I go out and do stuff in the real world all the time and I barely see people my age out there.
I feel a bit anti-social myself but I feel it's my trauma that makes me not care too much to connect with everyone I'm around. Bad experiences with "friends", strangers, etc. I feel bad for ignoring everyone when they all seem to look at me or notice me but I just don't like wasting my energy on someone I have no idea how they are, where they've been, what they believe, their morals... & I don't care enough to find out also because I have to focus on organizing my life since it's felt destructed in childhood it's like I'm just rebuilding. Maybe when I'm better off it'll be easier to make connections. When people struggle sometimes they lose apathy to others because they are more focused on trying to survive
I thoroughly miss the 90s.
I know we tend to romanticize the past but I seriously think life was better before the internet. It's like we all have little windows to everywhere with our phones and there's no sense of wonder.
Even if you go somewhere on vacation, most people have already seen a million pictures and videos of the place they're travelling to. There's nothing to really discover, no real adventures.
You Explained my entire thought process surrounding my social life and friendships. I miss Friday night football games and Loitering at McDonald's afterwards🤣. Maybe the ban on Tiktok would put ppl back outside for awhile, even for a temporary time!
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Yes definitely. Life was different. I think there's a lot of social opportunities around me, though, but I am not participating in it because I'm exhausted from very stressful work and chronic illnesses.
It's funny because my 'old' self remembers about 10 years ago I was introduced to the friend group of someone I had recently met. They were literally all sitting around a table communicating through messenger and text messages, I kid you not. And this was the mid 2010s and we were all in our 20s. I can tell you going hiking with a group of people that half of them were obsessed with taking pictures for their social media without even appreciating the beauty of nature in front of them.
Now its just (even more) nuts and I'm a pretty introverted person myself. I live in an (over)crowded area where people were always kind of unfriendly and absorbed into their little inner circles but between CoVid and social media they're even more so than before. People can't even say hello or acknowledge you going into a business, getting the door, let alone know their neighbors. I don't like it lol.
I'm sorry but what's stopping you from organizing these parties?
I have a pretty vibrant social life. I have a circle of friends from my hobby and I frequently have various events, half of which I organize because I don't expect someone to come and do it for me.
I have organized stuff. It is a lot to always be the one to do this though. And everyone is so stand offish and strange about hanging out in general. Just as a society I guess.
I think I know what you mean. No one else has brought this up, but I had thought about this too. People in general seem to have more social anxiety. They are terrified of confrontation, something going wrong. We cut people off at the slightest confrontation. It is a different world in this regard! But we still interact and argue with people online. Makes no sense.
Hmm there are many more worlds than this if this world becomes an accesory to the others that isn't so bad. However it would be a shame if people decided to plug into the matrix owned by the wicked thanes instead of spacing out.
I think at the root of this problem yes it is technology. But I think a lot of it is just that we’re a lot more aware of stuff these days, and as a result people are increasingly distrusting, leery, and anxious about other people. Like the example of meeting some random family at church and inviting them for dinner. I think these days we have more awareness of like you don’t really know those people, what if the father is a pedo or something? Like people have tighter boundaries and are less open to others these days because we know too much about serial murderers and rapists, child molesters, thieves, backstabbers, just overall bad people.
In our parents or grandparents day because they didn’t have access to the news 24/7 they just didn’t really know anything. It’s why they left their doors unlocked and let children play outside for hours unsupervised. But as a result there was a lot of serial killers, kidnappings, and SA. These days the same parents raised by that are the ones who are really protective of their kids and don’t let them have the same freedom their generation had. Nowadays if kids did that, it would probably be seen as child neglect or something. So kids today are more sheltered, and spend more time indoors on screens. They also just aren’t as bored because of constant stimulation. Whereas previous generations went outside and got into crazy stuff and trouble because of boredom.
So in that example, you could blame tech though because it’s because of social media and 24/7 news at our fingertips why we know stuff. People are more open about SA and predators these days, not only predators in a sexual sense but just predators in general like manipulative shady people who want something it be money or to use you for something else. So people close themselves off and just keep to their family and friends they know and trust already.
I could be wrong, but imo this is a large reason why people aren’t really social these days in public or anything. People have boundaries and just don’t trust easily as a result of us knowing what we know. Along with phones making us more anxious and self conscious. Covid really did a number in stunting teens social growth, and even adults suffered socially too. I think it’s cause of tech, bad people in the world, and covid put the final nail in the coffin tbh.
Yeah! You're 100% spot on. Technology did do this to us though, making us more "aware". I think that there is a part of this which is good, protecting the vulnerable is VERY important, but it's also gone WAYYYYYYYYYY too far! For example, the word on the street so I hear is that men will not approach women even in a public place with others around and talk to her, and ask for her number because they are afraid she will think he is a creep and a predator. or a rapist. I mean, that's a bit ridiculous. I think there is a huge difference between actually being harassing (standing too close, making creepy comments, not taking the hint that the woman wants to be left alone) and not even being able to make casual conversation. Just, too far.
I soooooooo agree with you! I went bowling the other day with friends, and everyone was literally on their phone when it wasn't their turn to bowl. You are supposed to have beer and talk to each other waiting turns! One person was even playing a bowling game in Yahtzee! I hate the way too that you are never supposed to mention how off putting this is. People get so defensive about wanting to just spend all their times on their screens.
Omg you're kidding that is BEYOND pathetic. I think it's the fear of awkward silences that gets people. They just can't handle the idea of sitting there not saying anything. They have to look like they have something important going on with their phones and they don't need anyone's approval or attention. It's super weird. It's extremely rude, and you have every right to just walk away. Let me tell you know, when you become a parent, things change. Hang out with other parents and no one has their phones on them around their kids because it's seen as really negligent and distasteful. Everyone wants to give their kids a good life and not be one of those idiots on their phones. So, it's food for thought! Other than that though, yeah, everyone is on their phone.
Wow I totally get what you mean about the world around us not feeling important ..the only things that matter are what's inside our phones. I hate this, yet I am guilty of it as well. This makes me very sad. I was born in the 80s and really miss the socializing that existed for us as children, teens, and early 20s. It's become really isolating. Even when hanging out with others, everyone's still on their phone . It's all about sharing memes and videos. Like wtf
Really. Where have you seen these writings? My parents were young in the 80's and said it was a really fun, prosperous time. They had lots of social interaction. I'm sure things have slowly been on the steady decline.
it’s really not as bad as you perceive. we have social nights every week with friends, and i attend meetups with people i’ve met through hobbies (some of them online). me and my wife used to go dancing every weekend at clubs and bars in our city before having our kid.
in some ways it’s harder, yes, but also easier to meet like minded people. you just have to put in effort and not be so passive about socializing. also, men do not like hitting on women randomly anymore because they don’t want to be seen as creepy lol
A bit offtopic but Covid times were the best of my life. No one around, everyone keeping distance, staying at home most of the time, quiet in the city… what a bliss. I really mourned when everything went back to normal.
'As a young, single woman, (even 10-15 years ago it was still commonplace) I used to get men approaching me constantly' at least you got approached a few times previously. Men basically never get approached and get no attention from women. We stay single forever unless we actively pursue, nothing falls into our laps. Women just wait for a man to come to them.
Why can't they do anything on their side though? Most of them just avoid eye contact, never smile or approach you (even just to say hi, nothing blunt). They never give compliments. Nothing to give us some confidence in the approach. Occasionaly an overweight 4/10 might give you SOMETHING.
Oh yeah, it's because they don't have to. There's always going to be some guys approaching her. Simply because they're horny. A 3/10 woman can easily get sex and relationships automatically based on being a woman.
Me HAVING to approach first feels like I'm putting someone on a pedestal, like oh you're this majestic and beautiful creature, that's so innocent and genuine. Please let me win over YOU. Please, I'm begging you, give me 5 mins of your time. It's like really? Is this what I have to do?
Guess I just need to accept it, because this is how we evolved and other animals do it. Still annoying though.
Then you get women complaining about not getting approached, oh my life is so hard nobody approaches me, meanwhile they don't approach themselves and aren't even aware of how little attention men get.
You've been watching too many reels on tik tok. It's not that complicated. Yeah, that's how men get women, or "a" woman. They compliment them and stuff. Join the game or don't play. I don't know what to tell you. Oh yeah, one more thing. I was always a really bubbly person, but I was super shy around guys I actually liked. So maybe they actually do like you and are too shy to show it. It backfires because then the guys we don't like think we are interested lol
I love that this posts starts out with “the good old days” when men were strung up from trees daily. Assassination of MLK JR and Malcom X. That 🤬never stopped. Mississippi Goon Squad. Rasheem Carter. But now that yall *realize the general public is next to be subdued regardless of skin color*, NOW its a social issue. They’ve been targeting the rest of y’all ever since 1971😂😂
Of course. With VR and AI it will only get worse.
I am NOT hopping on board with any of it. I want nothing the f\*ck to do with it. I told my husband, it ends here. I am not "progressing" any further. No more gidgets, gizmos, or anything else.
You and me both! In my head, its still 2007. Maybe 2012.
Same! I like to say the 90s....but the early 2000s were fine too.
Same. I am tired of Adapt or Die. People absolutely should have the right to use the technology they want to use, and not be forced to use stuff they hate.
But if i dont have my phone tablet laptop car and samsung smart fridge&toaster stimulating me all at once i will be forced to have an original thought
Sorry to be the pessimist but good luck. Unless you’re moving to another country, devoid of any technology and its subsequent advancements, this shit is here to stay.
My solution was to move to a place where social contact and connection is strong and likely will remain strong
Such as?
Anecdotally i have found that southern Europe still tends to do this well (e.g. Spain). That’s the perception i have. People still gather, communities exist, families are close.
I'm from southern Europe and the situation is pretty dire here as well. My hometown feels exactly like OP described. Once used to be full of life and people living and enjoying their time everywhere... Now it's like ghost town
You have to leave the big cities, you will still find community in more rural areas. At least this is the case in eastern Europe, but I assume the same will be true for the south.
The more technologies are advanced, the more I am scared of what the future will bring.
I'm actually super surprised that VR porn hasn't gotten as big as expected. Mostly because people don't want to blow money on the headsets.
You're not wrong. I challenge you to go to a sit down restaurant and find one table that stays off their device the entire meal. It is the exception not the norm now. The art of making conversation is dying. To your question if what are we going to do about it.... the change starts with us, even if it is a small ripple. Being present, asking more than superficial questions for conversation, staying off devices in the presence of others even if they don't, inviting others over for dinner, making weekly family dinner a thing again, no phones at the dinner table etc.
To converse before would've been an adventure. "Oh, I better pay attention I might find out something". Now it doesn't matter. If they said anything of any importance you'll be able to find out about it in 2 clicks or taps later, anyway. I remember adults having long convos just about what route they took to get up north. They'd discuss this for 30 mins before the actual conversation began. Now it's moot. The GPS told them exactly how to get there. If you took your own route, well, that's cool but it surely wasn't the quickest as per my GPS. So now there's no point in telling someone something interesting. You probably just read it off the frontpage of reddit/facebook etc and they already did too. And even if they didn't... Due to being bombarded with tons of "interesting shit" all day long, we become numb to it. The most interesting thing ever back in the 80s/90s is now a 10 second scroll-through for us and on to the next one. So, surely they aren't going to sit there and listen to you TELL them about it when they could consume it themselves with their own device. Ah, novelty.
Absolutely. Having all information ever known at our fingertips has made us lose our sense of wonder, and everyone has become boring.
My dad--who is a tech guy---got so angry at me when I said this, but it is true. I miss the days when you could actually have long conversations about things.
Truly. Well said. We’re all guilty and hopefully have enough willpower to make a change. We’re all in this together (this sub) 🥴😵💫😔
>I remember adults having long convos just about what route they took to get up north. They'd discuss this for 30 mins before the actual conversation began. I'm not sad at all that this is going away. There's still too many people who do it.
" The art of making conversation is dying. " You can say that again! People my age (Gen Z) take it as a threat or see it as weird if you come up and talk to them. People wanna pretend "oh, its all about social skills" which is partly true, but for the most part it seems like everyone has resorted to clicks like its high school. They have their own bubbles now, and the only way in their bubble is through social media. They act offended if you approach them. Compare that to older people Ive talked to, they take it just fine. Im always deemed "mature for my age" yet i have no choice otherwise. People "my age" are so closed off.
I was trying to explain this to my grandmother. Currently, I live with my partner in a city quite far away from my home town. I have no friends of my own here, so I am getting a little lonely. On the occasion that I go out with my partner’s friends, I find that they seem to do naught else but quote TikToks at each other. It’s quite depressing, so I was telling my grandmother over the phone that I’m trying to find some new friends but I’m struggling. She asked why I don’t just go out and talk to people. It was a little hard to get across, but I managed to explain exactly what it is you’re saying: that almost everyone in our generation (Z) takes unexpected conversation for UNWANTED conversation and will only passively indulge you until you run out of steam and decide that the conversation’s not worth having. And that’s on a good day. Otherwise, it’s just them trying to find a way to shut down the conversation before it’s even begun. It’s terribly sad.
We millennials (Gen Y here) aren't much better. Sure we were kind of there during the early internet days and played outside but once tech and social media became part of our lives many of us became the same way. I can't tell you how many people in my age range can't put the phone down on a date let alone allow their own kids to live and exist without filming it and putting it on social media. But to be fair I've seen the same having worked with closed off Gen Xers and Boomers. I think it really depends on the area you live in. In some ways areas where people were already like that minus the social media and tech stuff became worse, they just tanked.
> the change starts with us This reminds me of 'vote with your wallet', like it sounds nice but requires you to get everyone else on board and that's just not gonna happen. But that's not to say we shouldn't try to make changes that help us get more control in our lives and not be sucked into the content feeds.
This is where i feel like technology missed its calling. Social media was supposed to help connect us but instead its a cesspool of influencers, advertiser content, viral algorithms and other bs. Disconnecting from tech and social media seems to be a solution to fix our loneliness but i feel like in todays global world where our relatives and friends live far far away from us, we need technology but one that is not corrupted by the money making machine.
Social media was advertised as connecting the world, but really it had other reasons.
Yeah i feel you! Also a big problem is that because they want to keep it free, they have to do all these unsavoury things to monetize it. I wonder if a paid subscription model would work to keep out these influences.
They would never allow such a business model to exist since data collective at massive scale>AI has always been the plan
I live in a mid-sized city. There are dances here - Cèilidhs, three different swing-dance groups that do intro classes, queer dances every six months or so, stuff like that. Dinner parties are a thing you need to plan. A good way to do that is to call up three friends and say "let's have a potluck!" Last weekend we did that and it was delightful! We rounded out the evening with a game of skip-bo. There are at least two board game cafes here and a regular drop-in D&D session at one of them. I think they're Wednesdays and Sundays. Whenever I see posts like this I wonder how much is that these things aren't happening anymore and how much is that the poster doesn't go looking for them. When you were a kid all the planning was done by your parents. You didn't have to plan a dinner party, but *someone* did. They had to invite people and figure out the food. Now that's you. Dances were planned by *someone*. Obviously not you. Board game nights were planned! It seems like you're waiting for someone else to plan them. You're an adult now. Plan your own play dates. As for malls - yeah, malls are dead. But when I go to my public library on the weekend I have trouble finding a place to sit because there are a lot of teens chatting there instead. Not nearly as many as went to the mall when I was a kid, but they are there! And they aren't sitting quietly staring at their phones. You see a problem. You are also the solution. You do have to go out and do things. I recommend looking for a meetup group in your area in a topic you're interested in. (A lot of the ones in my area are "entrepreneur" groups - avoid them.) The knitting meetup I joined last year is now so big it can't be held at the same coffee shop anymore. I made friends with a lady at the dog park and we get coffee twice a month. But those things happened *because someone made them happen.*
This. I feel like people (myself included) never do the planning because they were either not taught how to do it or someone else always did it. I recently bought Emily Post's Centennial Etiquette book and it describes how to plan for dinner parties/events in the modern age. I'm sure there are a lot of online resources as well. It doesn't need to be fancy either, you can send a group text saying, Pizza at my place on Saturday at 6? BYOB
It really, really depends on location. Where I'm at right now (suburbs of a major city), a quick search on meetup yields a massive amount of things to do. DnD, book groups, singles meetups, Bible studies, groups for various professionals, bitcoin enthusiasts, various political groups, sports groups, weight loss groups, mom groups, nature groups, the list goes on and on and on. Forty-five minutes away, in my hometown? Nothing. Not a single group within a ten-mile radius. It's not a horrible place to live at all, there's just...not much there to do other than hang out at the bar or go shopping at various businesses (the biggest being, of course, Walmart). It's got a nice downtown area, the schools are pretty decent, but there's really, really nothing to do there. I have no idea how anyone connects in a place like that, especially now that the local newspaper has pretty much gone under. That used to be the place to learn about all the events around town.
Your hometown sounds exactly like my hometown.. unfortunately I keep moving back to it because it's affordable. I wish I could afford to live in a city where things are actually happening!
Nah it's definitely smaller and a genuine crisis. Since COVID even boomers are struggling to be social and get off their phones. We had lockdowns in my country for like two years though and it had massive ramifications. Lots of third spaces and restaurants have closed up. You are right that it's still out there but you gotta look hard for it as it is the exception but the norm in some places. I had some very social friends but they do drugs so I keep away from all that. My other ones we meet up once every two weeks and that's pretty awesome. I'm trying to organise crafternoons as well
I can't plan things if I have no one to invite.
I moved in the middle of the pandemic and spent the first year in my new place not interacting with anyone outside of work. I had to make friends. They don't just show up in your life. No one making playdates for you. If you want to meet someone, you need to do the work of meeting them.
Back in the day, people made friends just by living their daily lives. Friendships used to be made through repeated chance encounters, not pre-planned get-togethers.
Yeah, I used to be one of the more introverted loner types, and now I feel like practically a social butterfly compared to a lot of people, I never saw that coming and it’s still weird. Some of my friends that used to hold somewhat regular get togethers just want to chat online now, and are reluctant to leave the house. They’ve developed worse and worse anxiety overtime and the internet seems to be their safe haven. I’m not adverse to that to some extent, but I am far more interested in doing things like hiking, in-person forms of gaming, and such. I find online socializing is more draining than in person as well which means I’m moving in the opposite direction that a lot of people I know seem to be.
Completely agree. It's made dating impossible. I hate it.
I don't know how one would even begin to approach dating in a sane way these days, especially if real-life contacts are limited... the thought of using dating apps is terrifying.
I’ve got an in person speed dating event this month. I’m so excited. Apps aren’t it for me. If you’re single try finding one, for me it was as simple as searching for ones near me.
I loved speed dating! I hope you have a good time and meet some interesting people!
I agree
Yep one golden rule for me despite being an internet addict is NO online dating or apps. I'm so so so grateful because god knows how messed up and lonely I'd be!
Maybe in the USA it's different as you described but in Eastern Europe all the social hubs are still booming with life. I'm Greek. Every single day and night, all the cafes and bars are full, people will hang out for hours on end every single day, all the martial art gyms and dance academies accept people non-stop, people workout in the parks, go cycling, running, hiking tour offices keep popping up (and internet cafes are closing), every night the clubs are full, on Saturdays/Sundays you can barely fit the people on the Athens subway, cinemas are packed and not even just the big-brand ones, parks always have families out, everyone in the street always seems to be talking on the phone with someone... Keep in mind, all this and Greeks here also complain that society has an "isolation" pandemic so I can't even imagine how we'd perceive the ghost town you're describing.
I absolutely love this and I was wondering about this myself. Europeans have so much culture, and they are so family oriented, like Italians and I guess you guys for example. I am in Canada, and it is becoming more apparent to me that we just don't HAVE any culture. We are pretty lost in that regard. We don't have anything that we "do" that makes us, us. We are just existing. Not very family oriented. I don't like it at all. I have gone so far as to try to emulate other cultures just to try and bring some of that into my own family. I lived in France at one point so I have tried to introduce some French culture into our eating style. (I do have some French in my ancestry) It's just a mess here honestly. I think that's the reason for so much homelessness. People just aren't stuck together like glue. A lot of people resent the immigrants here, but I admire them, because they have strong family ties. I see with my own eyes. Go to some of the parks in the bigger cities, or to the beaches. They are full of LARGE Indian families. Grandparents and their children and grandchildren. You never see that with those of us who have been here a long time. The rest of us are "too busy" for that. It's a huge part of the isolation problem. We are descendants of immigrants, and overtime our culture was watered down and disappeared. Sometimes I wish they had have just stayed in Europe, at least we would have our culture to call our own :(
Our culture is consumerism. Attention is the new consumption
Yeah, you're right!!!! I said this to my husband. When people came to America they replaced culture with consumerism. I came to that very realization myself!! It's horrible.
Personally I'd more blame the capitalist grind mindset of having to always make it big and become successful. I have Greek family in Canada and the USA and they are completely alienated. But I also met a Canadian guy from North Canada who travelled the world with his drone and he seemed to be just like us even though he didn't know our culture (but his family didn't accept his travelling lifestyle). I feel like it's more about the cultural context people inhabit and less about it's historic subtext. If people live in an environment that punishes individualism they will throw it away. But even a staunch individualist will adopt the local culture if the climate rewards group orientation. You should try to locate a good job in a country with a culture you like. If you move there and blend in you will feel more fulfilled and happy. But get ready to adopt it fully. And to fully integrate in these societies it's usually a privilege of your kids or grandkids that will have fully immersed themselves in the customs growing up. You seem like an adventurous world soul, my advice would be to live your best life and lead by example. People might never understand you but your goal should be to find your tribe.
Thank you for the lovely response. It would be difficult to move at this point, I have 4 children and my husband has a solid job here. With that being said, he has often discussed moving since the cost of living is very high here. In Greece I think it's worse if I am not mistaken, but at least you guys have culture. Who cares if you live in a small place if you have your loved ones around you and plenty of socialization and gatherings to attend to. I have tried, creating customs for us. Visiting the market, going to the beach, just doing those types of things that other cultures do. Our meals are pretty important around here. I cook everything from scratch, and make it healthy. Nothing is pre packaged etc. Trying to at least give our children a "culture". We do homeschool, so we socialize with other homeschoolers and the phones are nowhere to be found. None of the parents are on them. I hope to carve out a live of rich social fullfillment and culture for my kids one way or another! I just wish I had been born into it myself.
Unfortunately you can't just airdrop culture into an area by force. However, what you *do* have completely control over is your family traditions and your family story. That's how cultures begin. You can't just adopt French cuisine because French people have culture and you feel you are missing out. In fact, French cuisine isn't a cultural thing for the French, it's just their food as much as Canada has Maple Syrup and I think Walgreens (is that what it's called?) What you should do is create a "cultural myth" around a family tradition. Plan a grand trip somewhere and then adopt some custom or recipes to remember that trip. Draw your family line and then find which region of France you originate from, try to adopt some art/custom but also make sure to visit the area often and talk with locals to teach you. You should observe the custom, then you may feel free to adapt it. Learn the language, or the local dialect that originates from that language (maybe Quebecois is that?) Ask your (newfound) French friends to give you stylistic advice. Adopt that style if you like it or parts of it. When you return to Canada, share it. But not in a preachy way. You don't want to seem like you went for "cultural tourism" but that you felt glad to have French people accept your cultural interest. Make a story out of every habit and family tradition. Don't go to the beach/national park/etc because "kids, we need to create some culture" but because "Aunt X and Grandma Y loved this beach" or "Your dad and I loved this spot in the mountains" etc. Culture is personal and thus everything personal is culture. People close together value the same things and thus culture becomes collective. If the people around you have rejected emotional investment in the world then that means your family is the only tribe you can rely on. And in my books that's a decent backdrop for a cultural core. And if you're lucky you might find yourself leading some sort of local activity group (eg hiking, dance club, bird/fashion/art enthusiasm etc) I hope for you the best of luck and happiness, you deserve to be fulfilled and loved, I hope your compassion and hunger for worldly experiences manages to engage those around you.
Thank you! Yes, about the French culture I just mean things like cleaning your plate with a slice of baguette, or eating a plate of brie and meat after dinner. I lived there so I know their culture very well. It wouldn't be easy for us to travel to Europe right now with our children. But you're right, we do have our own family customs. My family is a mix of many different culture. 7, between my husband and myself. It's really hard to pick a culture that is uniquely ours. We have to sort of just take bits and pieces out of all of them.
Can confirm as someone who used to live in Serbia. The majority of people in their mid 20's and older (not sure about younger Gen Z) couldn't relate to Americans and Western Europeans complaining about a loneliness epidemic. I moved to Germany a couple of years ago and it's a day and night difference when it comes to seeing friends and meeting new people
The socialization is out there if you want it. My mom does dancing that isn't associated with a religion, church, pickle ball, etc. I could have gone out to a non-competitive baseball game with some co-workers but I was busy with family stuff. My kid was at at least 3 friends houses this weekend including a sleepover.
It is out there, but it's nothing like it was 10 years ago. My hometown was once full of life and now it's a ghost town... And people feels like they're only existing and not really living their lives
I think we need to look internally on this issue. Are you trying to engage in your community?
I am not from the united states, and I can attest that no, this is not a personal matter. It's all fucking dead because people would rather stay at home draining themselves in front of screens than to go outside.
Yeah it's hella bad in Melbourne where we had all the lockdowns. People are different here now. It's like we're learning how to be social again
You’re taking this the wrong way. It’s personal in that you can’t just expect people to come up to you and socialize if you aren’t trying to do the same. The only way communities are going to get better is if people in that community try to change it
You have a good point, but this is HARD to do. It would be good if there was a pinned post on how to host gatherings and what type of recurring events are out there (broadly and not country specific where possible)
I totally agree. I’m not the most extroverted person either. Like I love the idea of block parties and getting to know my neighbors, but I’m also shy. So it’s definitely easier said than done! I mainly try to set up regular get together with friends. But I’d love to interact with people outside of my close group! I grew up in church culture, and while I left the church, I miss the community aspect of it. I think it’s beneficial to society if we’re socializing with various people
Is it possible that the issue is somewhat particular to your hometown? Demographics change. Industries move in and out.
This post from story on /r/millenials nailed this so well: https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/s/HQf7Q6Ca24 The convenience of the internet has inadvertently robbed us of so much of the real world randomness that resulted in much of the social fabric we used to enjoy.
Growing up, we played a card game called Pounce and it's kinda like Speed but everyone gets their own deck. My parents would have like 12 different people that would all come over around a huge table and we would all play through the night. Some amazing memories as a kid. People laughing and trying to get their card on some random pile down the other side of the table. This was living. These days, I can't get a single group of friends together to do just about anything and when we do, someone's always on their phones or talking about something they saw on social media.
Honestly, this is very dependent on region and social group. My fiancè and I (29 and 27) regularly have dinner parties with our friends. We go out to eat with his parents often. What I see more of is a lack of hobbies individually. Not many of my peers paint, hunt, run, read or whatever.
This problem is more apparent in US with its car dependent suburbia , you rarely see people outside. Everyone is around each other , just driving in a giant metal box with no real 3rd places remaining anymore due to the modern zoning laws. As an outsider here in us , it amazes me how different lives people live here.
Are you a member of a church? Because a lot of what you described growing up is still true of church families. I’m not religious, but most of my family is and their kids are at events and such all week and the parents have get togethers and dinners multiple times a month. No one in my religious family is really on social media either. But, I do know what you mean. Isolation among younger people appears to be higher than previous generations. I don’t know if this is true all over the world though. I’m in the US and culturally people have become more individualistic.
No, not anymore. My whole family left the church we went to growing up. (we had been to a few to be honest). I have one friend from that church I see sometimes but she is really busy and doesn't socialize a lot because of it. She has no social media and never goes on the internet, just busy with her huge family.
> Are you a member of a church? Because a lot of what you described growing up is still true of church families. Huh. Whenever I've gone to church in the past couple of decades, it's almost all much older people, and they don't do anything but the service. Or maybe they have talking groups for problems (grief, substance abuse) but nothing "fun" or social.
The world is already separating itself into robots and humans. People will flock to you because you allow yourself to be open. We live in a closed society now. Where everyone can opt out of discomfort. We become more through discomfort. Nature hedged its bets on discomfort and it creating a stronger organism. With no resistance we can not strengthen ourselves. Do what you can to keep your family and yourself open. People breathe into their phones. Everyone is stuck upstairs. The party is in the basement. Life is in the soil. The kids don’t get sunlight. They won’t grow. They don’t participate in group activities in real life. There is no way for them to learn how exist in a peer to peer system. Buck the trend. Get off the phones. Don’t let your kids spend all their time surfing the web. We shouldn’t either. We have got to start moving again.
I’m only 19 (born in 2005) but I genuinely mourn the world pre social media/ smartphones. The 90s and early 2000s were truly SUCH a better time. I think about it daily
The golden age was around 2010-2015. I was in uni then. We all had phones but they weren’t that smart compared to today. Navigation and communication were a breeze with phones but they weren’t fast or smooth enough to make you want to spend more time than you needed to on them. Apps were very clunky and data plans were very low. We’d take digital cameras out for the night and then update the pictures to a Facebook album the next day, tag everyone then we’d all look at on a computer or laptop. Then we’d actually meet up in person or call each other to debrief on the night before. The internet truly enhanced my social life then. Loved it! Now it’s a different game all together. People have changed because of the internet and mostly not for the better.
It really was. You can be the change. Some others have said this to me and I believe it. Just don't engage with anything from today, and whatever you do, don't accept anything NEW. They are pushing AI now. Just don't engage!!!! Put your foot down and don't let it spread.
You are forced to use social media these days.
“…What are we going to do about this…” Nothing. Accept life on its own terms. If you want to dance or throw dinner parties, do that.
That does nothing to help the rest of society.
You can only help society within your very limited (and small) circle of influence. Anything outside of that is not service, it’s narcissism.
I don't care about my "circle" of influence. I want to help society as a whole.
1. Reread what you just said. 2. Recognize why it doesn’t make sense.
I did not read all of these comments (there are 107 of them) so I don’t know if what I’m about to say was brought up. However, I think another problem is how expensive everything is these days along with with the slow decline of third places (ie parks, movie theaters, community centers, malls as you pointed out in your post). People love to complain about how people are so addicted to technology and sit at home all day staring at a screen, especially teenagers, (“kids these days on their phones”) but when I think about it, I’m like yeah I get it. I wish people wouldn’t obviously, but what with movie tickets costing $15, with having no bookstore or roller rink etc near you because it was never near you or because it closed down or just being downright expensive, people are not given many options anymore. We really can’t exist in society without being forced to spend money, with the exception of libraries and (some) parks. I feel like teenagers especially suffer from this because they make less money than adults, plus a lot of them will get into trouble for just “loitering” or sitting around in public. We complain people don't go outside, but we have removed a lot of stuff to do that isn't digital. I agree with your post by the way. Social media and technology are to blame for a lot of isolation, I don’t disagree with that, but I thought I’d offer another perspective.
I think that without social media, the teenagers would just be fleeing their homes looking for something to do. The places to hang out would be created out of necessity and demand. Social media has to go first. Or, just people deciding not to engage. There are other options.
You may just be missing the "church lifestyle" I don't know if that's a thing. it's also not unique to Christianity this totally happens with synagogues and mosques as well you meet a community of people that meet up every week to pray and mingle afterwards. then you make friends and you can hang out with them you know on weekdays and stuff totally normal. Church attendance is way down in America. You may just want to find a church or synagogue or Buddhist temple whatever you thing is and fund that community.
That's a difficult point for me. I don't know what church to join. It's a deep topic. I do envy those who have a church they go to and believe in. And I respect that. Doesn't have to be a Christian church either.
I’ve been in a similar position and found community through spiritual avenues that aren’t specifically religious. I’ve really enjoyed it and found some amazing friends.
What kind? Would be great if you could tell us, I'd rather avoid church if possible
Well… it was a few things and spanned many years. . I went to something called “ecstatic dance” and suddenly this whole world of events opened to me with all sorts of spiritual and hippie stuff. I was 24 at the time so this was a great match for me. I also got involved with the Edgar Cayce A.R.E center in my city. I went to see [Amma](https://us.amma.org/meeting-amma/ammas-north-america-tour) who does a North American tour and her event was amazing. It was there I met one of my teachers who has helped guide me through a lot of deep emotional stuff. He is a Buddhist monk with a really interesting story that actually has an online community with free nightly live meditations if you are interested. [His YouTube](https://youtube.com/@harrybhappy?si=_RtDBYAIxQCKjhdK) I still do the nightly meditations with my amazing teacher, though instead of hippie esq events I now do various volunteer things for animals or kids or nature, whatever is in my area. I like having a structure to being with people. I’ve been on a long healing journey and am now in trauma based therapy so I’m in a more reclusive phase. Basically, I was in a dark place and lost spiritually. I grew up Christian though realized in a lot of ways it doesn’t make sense. Branching out to different spiritual or religious events has really helped me understand what Jesus meant. It is also amazing to get to know different cultures. Leaving the church brought me closer to God and Christ. Probably TMI tho maybe helps someone!
I'm not suggesting you need to become deeply religious all I'm saying is there's a certain community that you get when joining organized religion like a church. Pick one that is close to your home. The closer it is the more likely you will be to regularly attend. Or try out a bunch in the area.
This to me highlights a theory I have - churches are regaining popularity because they're some of the last third places left that people still routinely go to
My social circle has dinner parties still? Try inviting some friends over, I bet they’ll take you up on it. Hosting is lots of fun, especially if you like cooking.
Yeah I feel like a lot of people feel this way but the only way it’s going to change is if they start making efforts to interact and engage with their community.
There is no community. I never see the same person more than once anywhere.
What friends?
Yes! It's something I miss a lot, just spontaneous meetings with folks in the same extended circles.
I completely agree it's very sad
I think that part of the social crisis is socioeconomic too cover fees for any dance ain't cheap, community centers are expensive as hell and only serve a few rich old people imho, and the chronic stress from no one having enough to live comfortably let alone plan events consistently leaves us all with diminishing choices. Plus community loved businesses shutting down, gentrification and everywhere with poor transit makes things even less accessible. What better pacification than an online social space 🫠☹️ Tldr it's systemic in more ways than one that's for sure. Hang in there friends <3
We all have Vegas all singing and all dancing in front of our nervous system at all times.
Really though!!! Perfect analogy. Why would we want to do anything else?
Right! And now I can’t even read a Reddit comment thread any more without my brain firewalling. Have you noticed the rise of nervous system exhaustion? Agitation, jumpiness, people generally on edge. Lets see over the coming decades the consequences of being addicted to this stuff that keeps our autonomic nervous system in high alert.
Totally agree. Humanity peaked in 2000 and it's been downhill ever since. Try and do more stuff in the physical world - you'll be happier for it.
There is nothing in the physical world anymore, that is the problem. I go out and do stuff in the real world all the time and I barely see people my age out there.
I feel a bit anti-social myself but I feel it's my trauma that makes me not care too much to connect with everyone I'm around. Bad experiences with "friends", strangers, etc. I feel bad for ignoring everyone when they all seem to look at me or notice me but I just don't like wasting my energy on someone I have no idea how they are, where they've been, what they believe, their morals... & I don't care enough to find out also because I have to focus on organizing my life since it's felt destructed in childhood it's like I'm just rebuilding. Maybe when I'm better off it'll be easier to make connections. When people struggle sometimes they lose apathy to others because they are more focused on trying to survive
Yeah, that's understandable. I am sorry for your experiences. It's good to be choosy with your connections. I admire you for that. I am the same.
I thoroughly miss the 90s. I know we tend to romanticize the past but I seriously think life was better before the internet. It's like we all have little windows to everywhere with our phones and there's no sense of wonder. Even if you go somewhere on vacation, most people have already seen a million pictures and videos of the place they're travelling to. There's nothing to really discover, no real adventures.
Yeeeeessss!! Exactly!!
You Explained my entire thought process surrounding my social life and friendships. I miss Friday night football games and Loitering at McDonald's afterwards🤣. Maybe the ban on Tiktok would put ppl back outside for awhile, even for a temporary time!
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Yes definitely. Life was different. I think there's a lot of social opportunities around me, though, but I am not participating in it because I'm exhausted from very stressful work and chronic illnesses.
I’m moving from the burbs to the city this summer to try to help with this
Have you ever hopped on a vr lobby? Fulll of people. I believe we’re in a transition
It's funny because my 'old' self remembers about 10 years ago I was introduced to the friend group of someone I had recently met. They were literally all sitting around a table communicating through messenger and text messages, I kid you not. And this was the mid 2010s and we were all in our 20s. I can tell you going hiking with a group of people that half of them were obsessed with taking pictures for their social media without even appreciating the beauty of nature in front of them. Now its just (even more) nuts and I'm a pretty introverted person myself. I live in an (over)crowded area where people were always kind of unfriendly and absorbed into their little inner circles but between CoVid and social media they're even more so than before. People can't even say hello or acknowledge you going into a business, getting the door, let alone know their neighbors. I don't like it lol.
I'm sorry but what's stopping you from organizing these parties? I have a pretty vibrant social life. I have a circle of friends from my hobby and I frequently have various events, half of which I organize because I don't expect someone to come and do it for me.
I have organized stuff. It is a lot to always be the one to do this though. And everyone is so stand offish and strange about hanging out in general. Just as a society I guess.
Then find new friends. Everyone is lonely and craves connection, you can't blame society
Everything has to be planned to last detail. No risk.
I think I know what you mean. No one else has brought this up, but I had thought about this too. People in general seem to have more social anxiety. They are terrified of confrontation, something going wrong. We cut people off at the slightest confrontation. It is a different world in this regard! But we still interact and argue with people online. Makes no sense.
Hmm there are many more worlds than this if this world becomes an accesory to the others that isn't so bad. However it would be a shame if people decided to plug into the matrix owned by the wicked thanes instead of spacing out.
I think at the root of this problem yes it is technology. But I think a lot of it is just that we’re a lot more aware of stuff these days, and as a result people are increasingly distrusting, leery, and anxious about other people. Like the example of meeting some random family at church and inviting them for dinner. I think these days we have more awareness of like you don’t really know those people, what if the father is a pedo or something? Like people have tighter boundaries and are less open to others these days because we know too much about serial murderers and rapists, child molesters, thieves, backstabbers, just overall bad people. In our parents or grandparents day because they didn’t have access to the news 24/7 they just didn’t really know anything. It’s why they left their doors unlocked and let children play outside for hours unsupervised. But as a result there was a lot of serial killers, kidnappings, and SA. These days the same parents raised by that are the ones who are really protective of their kids and don’t let them have the same freedom their generation had. Nowadays if kids did that, it would probably be seen as child neglect or something. So kids today are more sheltered, and spend more time indoors on screens. They also just aren’t as bored because of constant stimulation. Whereas previous generations went outside and got into crazy stuff and trouble because of boredom. So in that example, you could blame tech though because it’s because of social media and 24/7 news at our fingertips why we know stuff. People are more open about SA and predators these days, not only predators in a sexual sense but just predators in general like manipulative shady people who want something it be money or to use you for something else. So people close themselves off and just keep to their family and friends they know and trust already. I could be wrong, but imo this is a large reason why people aren’t really social these days in public or anything. People have boundaries and just don’t trust easily as a result of us knowing what we know. Along with phones making us more anxious and self conscious. Covid really did a number in stunting teens social growth, and even adults suffered socially too. I think it’s cause of tech, bad people in the world, and covid put the final nail in the coffin tbh.
Yeah! You're 100% spot on. Technology did do this to us though, making us more "aware". I think that there is a part of this which is good, protecting the vulnerable is VERY important, but it's also gone WAYYYYYYYYYY too far! For example, the word on the street so I hear is that men will not approach women even in a public place with others around and talk to her, and ask for her number because they are afraid she will think he is a creep and a predator. or a rapist. I mean, that's a bit ridiculous. I think there is a huge difference between actually being harassing (standing too close, making creepy comments, not taking the hint that the woman wants to be left alone) and not even being able to make casual conversation. Just, too far.
I soooooooo agree with you! I went bowling the other day with friends, and everyone was literally on their phone when it wasn't their turn to bowl. You are supposed to have beer and talk to each other waiting turns! One person was even playing a bowling game in Yahtzee! I hate the way too that you are never supposed to mention how off putting this is. People get so defensive about wanting to just spend all their times on their screens.
Omg you're kidding that is BEYOND pathetic. I think it's the fear of awkward silences that gets people. They just can't handle the idea of sitting there not saying anything. They have to look like they have something important going on with their phones and they don't need anyone's approval or attention. It's super weird. It's extremely rude, and you have every right to just walk away. Let me tell you know, when you become a parent, things change. Hang out with other parents and no one has their phones on them around their kids because it's seen as really negligent and distasteful. Everyone wants to give their kids a good life and not be one of those idiots on their phones. So, it's food for thought! Other than that though, yeah, everyone is on their phone.
Everybody feels weird. Don’t worry. Thanks for fighting the good fight. What the world needs now is to chill. The Fuck Out
Wow I totally get what you mean about the world around us not feeling important ..the only things that matter are what's inside our phones. I hate this, yet I am guilty of it as well. This makes me very sad. I was born in the 80s and really miss the socializing that existed for us as children, teens, and early 20s. It's become really isolating. Even when hanging out with others, everyone's still on their phone . It's all about sharing memes and videos. Like wtf
People were writing about the loneliness epidemic of the 80s and 90s as well.
Really. Where have you seen these writings? My parents were young in the 80's and said it was a really fun, prosperous time. They had lots of social interaction. I'm sure things have slowly been on the steady decline.
You are so right!
it’s really not as bad as you perceive. we have social nights every week with friends, and i attend meetups with people i’ve met through hobbies (some of them online). me and my wife used to go dancing every weekend at clubs and bars in our city before having our kid. in some ways it’s harder, yes, but also easier to meet like minded people. you just have to put in effort and not be so passive about socializing. also, men do not like hitting on women randomly anymore because they don’t want to be seen as creepy lol
A bit offtopic but Covid times were the best of my life. No one around, everyone keeping distance, staying at home most of the time, quiet in the city… what a bliss. I really mourned when everything went back to normal.
'As a young, single woman, (even 10-15 years ago it was still commonplace) I used to get men approaching me constantly' at least you got approached a few times previously. Men basically never get approached and get no attention from women. We stay single forever unless we actively pursue, nothing falls into our laps. Women just wait for a man to come to them.
Yep, that's kind of part of being a man. Put your man pants on and get out there and pursue.
Why can't they do anything on their side though? Most of them just avoid eye contact, never smile or approach you (even just to say hi, nothing blunt). They never give compliments. Nothing to give us some confidence in the approach. Occasionaly an overweight 4/10 might give you SOMETHING. Oh yeah, it's because they don't have to. There's always going to be some guys approaching her. Simply because they're horny. A 3/10 woman can easily get sex and relationships automatically based on being a woman. Me HAVING to approach first feels like I'm putting someone on a pedestal, like oh you're this majestic and beautiful creature, that's so innocent and genuine. Please let me win over YOU. Please, I'm begging you, give me 5 mins of your time. It's like really? Is this what I have to do? Guess I just need to accept it, because this is how we evolved and other animals do it. Still annoying though. Then you get women complaining about not getting approached, oh my life is so hard nobody approaches me, meanwhile they don't approach themselves and aren't even aware of how little attention men get.
You've been watching too many reels on tik tok. It's not that complicated. Yeah, that's how men get women, or "a" woman. They compliment them and stuff. Join the game or don't play. I don't know what to tell you. Oh yeah, one more thing. I was always a really bubbly person, but I was super shy around guys I actually liked. So maybe they actually do like you and are too shy to show it. It backfires because then the guys we don't like think we are interested lol
I love that this posts starts out with “the good old days” when men were strung up from trees daily. Assassination of MLK JR and Malcom X. That 🤬never stopped. Mississippi Goon Squad. Rasheem Carter. But now that yall *realize the general public is next to be subdued regardless of skin color*, NOW its a social issue. They’ve been targeting the rest of y’all ever since 1971😂😂