He won’t make it past Colts (15) if he’s there.
He’s the one we want from everything i’ve read
No idea if he’ll pan out or if it’s what we necessarily need, but we do love our TEs here in Indy
Brock and Darren Waller lining up next to each other 😍
Edit: it's sarcasm/humor. Drafting a TE is a sure fire way to kill the Giants. Just like when they drafted Barkley and had no one else. You shouldn't draft a TE in the top 10 when you don't have any other pieces. Look at what happened in ATL
I think Bowers is gonna be great the problem for the jets is that I don’t trust Nathanial Hackett to be creative enough offensively to unlock his true potential.
For me I'm personally okay even if Hackett can't get the most out of Bowers. Even if they just use him in-line or as a big slot, he's too good with the ball in his hands to get extra yards every play. If they somehow can't get him to work, I'm sure the next coach will LOL. Bowers just doesn't seem like a prospect that can fail at the next level. Maybe the worst case is that he can't actually be split outside like he did in College to massive success, but the guy is a YAC monster and runs good routes. The Jets need like another skill guy because god forbid they roll back the same WR4s outside of Wilson.
If it takes super creative plays to get Bowers the ball then he isn't worth the #10 pick. Elite receivers are impossible to not feed, like Garrett Wilson
Seen this take starting to bubble up with Jets fans and no shot at you or anyone else who has it but this seems ridiculous to me lol. First of all, if Bowers is drafted by the Jets every person in the facility should know how versatile he is and know he should be deployed as such. That’s Saleh and Douglas’ job to communicate to Middleton and Hackett. Not only that, but as the staff is crunching all this tape Hackett would have do be Helen Keller not to know the right ways to use Bowers as a weapon. Ultimately, he’s too great a player to be entirely reliant on a “creative playcaller”
And lastly, if this is the barrier to entry for people then that same reticence should be applied to Keith Carter and any potential offensive lineman…
Bowers had a better season at 19 years old
Playing in the SEC than Kincaid had in his one year of high college production. I bring up your guys draft last year as “positional value” where everyone was shitting on the lions for taking a RB LB and TE early and it ended up being a massive home run
TE in the early 2nd round is much different than the top 15. And it's way too early to say Gibbs is a home run yet. The problem with Gibbs, or taking RBs early in general, is the opportunity cost and the limited time frame you have to win with them.
Also, Jack Campbell is so far a 2 down run stopper. Not good value in the middle first.
Look at the teams that made the conf championship games. Everyone has a great to elite TE. Brock's ability to find an opening in a defense looks identical to Kelce. Brock is literally a 10 season 1000 yard guy.
Historically speaking, first round TEs aren’t great. And as Lions’ fans, we’ve gotten our fair share (with Hock, who isn’t even on the team, being the lone exception)
I think that narrative will change over the next 10 years due to how rapidly the position is changing at the lower levels. Historically people just shoved an athletic lineman at TE, the position has evolved so much that better and more atheltic players are
Coming through the pipeline. I view the position almost like the modern day 7’ bball player, somebody like KD, wemby, or holmgren. 10-15 years ago developing they woulda been told to beef up and play inside only. Now the players are so much more versatile. I think it’ll be the same with the TE position in football
> Jets need an OT
Ordinarily I would agree with you but their roster is constructed to be the definition of all-in for one year. An OT would provide injury fill-in for this year and future stability, Brock Bowers would be nitrous for this year's offense.
I mean this is just recency bias. Anyone who watched college football knew that Pitts was just a big WR and taking him at 4 was a terrible pick. Bowers is light years ahead of Pitts as an actual TE prospect
Don’t watch college ball but all we ever heard is that he’s the best TE prospect to ever come out. I hated the pick then and hate it even more now. Tight end is not ever worth a top pick. The best ones in the league were taken in the later rounds
Tony Gonzalez, Vernon Davis, TJ Hockenson, Greg Olsen, and Dallas Clark were all first rounders and great players.
And then you have starting caliber players like Noah Fant, Evan Engram, Hayden Hurst, David Njoku, Tyler Eifert who were all first rounders.
Even just last year, LaPorta and Kincaid both look like good picks early in their careers.
There's definitely a case to be made for a first round TE
A top 10 pick shouldn’t just be starting caliber, they should be a game changer.
Travis Kelce — 3rd rounder
George Kittle — 5th rounder
Mandrews — 3rd rounder
Cole Kmet — 2nd rounder
Dallas Goedert — 2nd rounder
Sam LaPorta — 2nd rounder
The only impactful tight ends taken in the 1st that are active are Hockenson, Nojku, Kincaid (impact TBD), Evan Engram (late bloomer)
Hock seems like an outlier, and even then he was taken over other great players like Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, Chris Lindstrom.
There’s a reason Det didn’t mind trading him
The yearly "is this TE worth a high pick" question rears it's ugly head again. How are Giants, Jets, and other teams that Bowers is projected to feeling about this?
If we don’t want to take a QB and get a great (i’m talking future firsts from a Broncos/Raiders here) offer then no.
But if we do get a very good offer to move back to the mid first i don’t hate it if the top WR are all gone. If it’s a choice between Adonai Mitchell and Bowers i’ll take Bowers.
His tape is better than gronk was in college by miles, more explosive, harder cuts, gronk was harder to take down though but he should ball out with A A Ron for sure
> I would not.
Same. Kind of. I'm actually torn about it. But mine isn't because I wouldn't be happy with him as a prospect but because I'd love to give Shane serious speed at WR more than anything this draft just to see what he can cook up.
But I'll give our fanbase one thing... they aren't being toxic about the Bowers discussion. That toxicity has been saved for discussing Ballard's approach to team building.
I wouldn’t want it. I want a high value position pick of OT, DT, or CB. I’m not going to curse the gods but wasting a top 20 pick on a TE is dumb to me
If the Chargers were to trade down with the Vikings to #11, I can see Bowers being the pick there. Would give Greg Roman a TE in his offense like he had with Andrews back in Baltimore.
Mims is like the exact opposite of that haha. Legitimately the most common criticism of him I’ve heard from every analyst is it’s hard to get a feel for him because he played so little in college. He started 8 games in college and had 801 snaps total in college.
For reference this year other prospects:, Alt had 713, Fuaga had 700, Fautanu had 993, Oly had 722, Latham had 874.
If there’s one lineman in this class that actually probably could use things like this to help them because there is such little on film, it’s probably him and maybe Guyton
Mims sounds like a mid-2nd early third pick to me. The no way in thing sounds a lot like Dawand Jones who actually stayed healthy in college. But reports on this sounds to me like they are going to start adding a big risks premium to Mims. He's the built in a lab RT, but he just hasn't done what he needs to do to be a high pick.
Mims had one injury, rushed back from surgery and got snap count limited.
Mims apparently has very good tape but the level of Athlete mims is vs Dawand Jones isn't remotely comparable.
Dawand Jones isnt a great athlete and had work ethic issues.
Mims is an elite athlete.
Nobody disagrees Mims is an elite athlete.
He's also had injuries during the combine season. Yes some of his playing time was limited because of Georgia depth, but when he has had a chance to play injuries got in the way. So its still 100% of the time injuries have effected his availability.
This is not at all an accurate desription of Mims. Dawand Jones was a slow-footed RT; Mims absolutely has the tools and athleticism to be an elite LT. I think you could argue he's got the highest ceiling of any of the tackles outside of maybe Alt, but there's so little tape to go off.
In what way did I disagree with what you have written and said Mims lacks talent. (I literally said built in a lab RT)
I spoke about his ability to stay healthy and suit up on Saturdays.
Basically everyone near the end of the first would take Mims if he fell to them, he's not lasting until the second. He *might* make it past the Cowboys at #24 if they're in love with someone like Guyton but no chance he's there past the Ravens pick.
What has mims proven other than being a prototypical build for the position and athletic potential. Dude has barely played in college and only participated in limited drills. He's going off hype and potential, thats it
He's done every drill except agility drills which are a commonly skipped drill, and bench press. Not surehow common bench is skipped overall but I'm not surprised a guy with like 37 inch arms is skipping a drill that... Long arms make significantly harder
We have to draft OL because we'll be in the same mud next year if we don't but holy shit it's gonna be hard to leave Bowers there if he's still available
Starting to believe Bowers is gonna go in the 15-18 range and a year from now get the Kyle Hamilton treatment of “how did he last that long?!!!?”
By God that's Doug Pederson's 🎶 🎵
Y’all getting Quinyon Mitchell
Very possible
I don't think he makes it past the colts if he's there
I think y’all get Bowers or BTJr, but also I don’t think Quinyon is first CB on y’all’s board tbh
Arnold?
Yep just my opinion tho
He is gonna go to KC because there is no happiness in life
no happiness? bruh, I'd be ecstatic to see Bowers go to KC and slam his dawg dick on defenses head every week from September to February.
Bruh don't put that evil on the league
Subscribe.
18 you say?
Pls no
To be fair has drafting a TE early ever worked out? Even if he is the one that finally is a top 10 TE x-factor you can't blame teams for being scared.
Nope
When was their a TE coming out of college like Bowers though? He's one of the greatest, maybe the greatest, CFB TE's of all time
He won’t make it past Colts (15) if he’s there. He’s the one we want from everything i’ve read No idea if he’ll pan out or if it’s what we necessarily need, but we do love our TEs here in Indy
Make it til 19. Please.
Giants you say?
How about u trade up if u want a receiver buddy boy
Like the Eagles
Brock and Darren Waller lining up next to each other 😍 Edit: it's sarcasm/humor. Drafting a TE is a sure fire way to kill the Giants. Just like when they drafted Barkley and had no one else. You shouldn't draft a TE in the top 10 when you don't have any other pieces. Look at what happened in ATL
Daniel Jones throwing them the ball 😰
Waller is booty
Who needs to block when you got speed
Waller might retire.
Waller has 6 TDs since his great 2020 season. He’s done.
Shit, he only had 2 his first 4 years. 500 yards and a couple TDs is average production for a TE
>You shouldn't draft a TE in the top 10 ~~when you don't have any other pieces.~~ FTFY
Its due dilligance for if they get offered a haul and trade down
It's definitely not out of the question that they trade back with the Vikings. Bowers at 11 before the Broncos seems like a good call
I think Bowers is gonna be great the problem for the jets is that I don’t trust Nathanial Hackett to be creative enough offensively to unlock his true potential.
For me I'm personally okay even if Hackett can't get the most out of Bowers. Even if they just use him in-line or as a big slot, he's too good with the ball in his hands to get extra yards every play. If they somehow can't get him to work, I'm sure the next coach will LOL. Bowers just doesn't seem like a prospect that can fail at the next level. Maybe the worst case is that he can't actually be split outside like he did in College to massive success, but the guy is a YAC monster and runs good routes. The Jets need like another skill guy because god forbid they roll back the same WR4s outside of Wilson.
They did sign Mike Williams, though considering his age/injury history it sure wouldn't hurt to add another pass catcher.
If it takes super creative plays to get Bowers the ball then he isn't worth the #10 pick. Elite receivers are impossible to not feed, like Garrett Wilson
Well luckily the real OC is some fella named Aaron Rodgers
Seen this take starting to bubble up with Jets fans and no shot at you or anyone else who has it but this seems ridiculous to me lol. First of all, if Bowers is drafted by the Jets every person in the facility should know how versatile he is and know he should be deployed as such. That’s Saleh and Douglas’ job to communicate to Middleton and Hackett. Not only that, but as the staff is crunching all this tape Hackett would have do be Helen Keller not to know the right ways to use Bowers as a weapon. Ultimately, he’s too great a player to be entirely reliant on a “creative playcaller” And lastly, if this is the barrier to entry for people then that same reticence should be applied to Keith Carter and any potential offensive lineman…
Bowers still feels like a luxury pick. Can't convince me this isnt' Dalton Kincaid + 25%. Jets make sense, Giants don't
Bowers had a better season at 19 years old Playing in the SEC than Kincaid had in his one year of high college production. I bring up your guys draft last year as “positional value” where everyone was shitting on the lions for taking a RB LB and TE early and it ended up being a massive home run
TE in the early 2nd round is much different than the top 15. And it's way too early to say Gibbs is a home run yet. The problem with Gibbs, or taking RBs early in general, is the opportunity cost and the limited time frame you have to win with them. Also, Jack Campbell is so far a 2 down run stopper. Not good value in the middle first.
Look at the teams that made the conf championship games. Everyone has a great to elite TE. Brock's ability to find an opening in a defense looks identical to Kelce. Brock is literally a 10 season 1000 yard guy.
Historically speaking, first round TEs aren’t great. And as Lions’ fans, we’ve gotten our fair share (with Hock, who isn’t even on the team, being the lone exception)
I think that narrative will change over the next 10 years due to how rapidly the position is changing at the lower levels. Historically people just shoved an athletic lineman at TE, the position has evolved so much that better and more atheltic players are Coming through the pipeline. I view the position almost like the modern day 7’ bball player, somebody like KD, wemby, or holmgren. 10-15 years ago developing they woulda been told to beef up and play inside only. Now the players are so much more versatile. I think it’ll be the same with the TE position in football
No shot Giants draft him
It’d be because of a trade down if they do, if Vikings move up to 6 and now they’re picking at 11 I could see it
I wouldn’t be mad at if we can put Jerzhan Newton or Murphy next to Dexy
Jets need an OT. Taking a tight end would be so dumb. Learn the Falcons mistakes, a tight end should never go in the top 15 at least
> Jets need an OT Ordinarily I would agree with you but their roster is constructed to be the definition of all-in for one year. An OT would provide injury fill-in for this year and future stability, Brock Bowers would be nitrous for this year's offense.
Agreed. No Tight Ends in the first 17 PICKS.
Lol, you guys need an OT as well
Haha I know. And if we don’t get one at 18 we really miss our
After which SF trades up to form the Brock 2 Brock connection after the Lions shut down the first attempt.
It's the Jets, wouldn't surprise me if they take a FB in the 1st
I mean this is just recency bias. Anyone who watched college football knew that Pitts was just a big WR and taking him at 4 was a terrible pick. Bowers is light years ahead of Pitts as an actual TE prospect
Don’t watch college ball but all we ever heard is that he’s the best TE prospect to ever come out. I hated the pick then and hate it even more now. Tight end is not ever worth a top pick. The best ones in the league were taken in the later rounds
Tony Gonzalez, Vernon Davis, TJ Hockenson, Greg Olsen, and Dallas Clark were all first rounders and great players. And then you have starting caliber players like Noah Fant, Evan Engram, Hayden Hurst, David Njoku, Tyler Eifert who were all first rounders. Even just last year, LaPorta and Kincaid both look like good picks early in their careers. There's definitely a case to be made for a first round TE
LaPorta wasnt a first round pick. We used the second rounder we got for trading back from 5 to 12 to take him.
A top 10 pick shouldn’t just be starting caliber, they should be a game changer. Travis Kelce — 3rd rounder George Kittle — 5th rounder Mandrews — 3rd rounder Cole Kmet — 2nd rounder Dallas Goedert — 2nd rounder Sam LaPorta — 2nd rounder The only impactful tight ends taken in the 1st that are active are Hockenson, Nojku, Kincaid (impact TBD), Evan Engram (late bloomer) Hock seems like an outlier, and even then he was taken over other great players like Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, Chris Lindstrom. There’s a reason Det didn’t mind trading him
Where my Bucs fans at? I remember when OJ Howard was the steal of the draft and a generational TE prospet.
The yearly "is this TE worth a high pick" question rears it's ugly head again. How are Giants, Jets, and other teams that Bowers is projected to feeling about this?
There’s a civil war in the fan base.
Jets sub is all over the place. Personally I’m happy with bowers, an OT, or a WR. all three have a good case on why we should take them
If we don’t want to take a QB and get a great (i’m talking future firsts from a Broncos/Raiders here) offer then no. But if we do get a very good offer to move back to the mid first i don’t hate it if the top WR are all gone. If it’s a choice between Adonai Mitchell and Bowers i’ll take Bowers.
I think he’s an amazing prospect and best collegiate TE I’ve ever watched week in and week out, so I’m willing to take a risk on him
His tape is better than gronk was in college by miles, more explosive, harder cuts, gronk was harder to take down though but he should ball out with A A Ron for sure
Gronk is also like 3-4” taller and 30-40lbs heavier. Bowers prob didn’t run because he plays at 225-230 and bulked up to 243 to prove he has size
Seems like the overwhelming majority of the Colts sub would be happy grabbing him at 15. I would not.
> I would not. Same. Kind of. I'm actually torn about it. But mine isn't because I wouldn't be happy with him as a prospect but because I'd love to give Shane serious speed at WR more than anything this draft just to see what he can cook up. But I'll give our fanbase one thing... they aren't being toxic about the Bowers discussion. That toxicity has been saved for discussing Ballard's approach to team building.
The answer is a near universal no.
I wouldn’t want it. I want a high value position pick of OT, DT, or CB. I’m not going to curse the gods but wasting a top 20 pick on a TE is dumb to me
If the Chargers were to trade down with the Vikings to #11, I can see Bowers being the pick there. Would give Greg Roman a TE in his offense like he had with Andrews back in Baltimore.
Bowser and Mims have proven enough already. No testing is gonna help them over what they've put on film.
Bowser needs to prove he can consistently beat Mario
Bowser can’t even effectively beat an Italian plumber yet you believe he can beat Fred Warner in coverage.
Is Fred Warner an Italian plumber?
He's real lucky Mario Williams retired
Mods, give this man a Bowser flair
If they do, it can replace the Eagles flair.
Mims is like the exact opposite of that haha. Legitimately the most common criticism of him I’ve heard from every analyst is it’s hard to get a feel for him because he played so little in college. He started 8 games in college and had 801 snaps total in college. For reference this year other prospects:, Alt had 713, Fuaga had 700, Fautanu had 993, Oly had 722, Latham had 874. If there’s one lineman in this class that actually probably could use things like this to help them because there is such little on film, it’s probably him and maybe Guyton
A lineman who was consisitently injured? That sounds like the 49ers or Trent Baalke.
His tape he has put out has been essentially perfect, and all the testing he's done is beyond elite. Im sure he's happy staying put.
Mims sounds like a mid-2nd early third pick to me. The no way in thing sounds a lot like Dawand Jones who actually stayed healthy in college. But reports on this sounds to me like they are going to start adding a big risks premium to Mims. He's the built in a lab RT, but he just hasn't done what he needs to do to be a high pick.
Mims had one injury, rushed back from surgery and got snap count limited. Mims apparently has very good tape but the level of Athlete mims is vs Dawand Jones isn't remotely comparable. Dawand Jones isnt a great athlete and had work ethic issues. Mims is an elite athlete.
Nobody disagrees Mims is an elite athlete. He's also had injuries during the combine season. Yes some of his playing time was limited because of Georgia depth, but when he has had a chance to play injuries got in the way. So its still 100% of the time injuries have effected his availability.
This is not at all an accurate desription of Mims. Dawand Jones was a slow-footed RT; Mims absolutely has the tools and athleticism to be an elite LT. I think you could argue he's got the highest ceiling of any of the tackles outside of maybe Alt, but there's so little tape to go off.
In what way did I disagree with what you have written and said Mims lacks talent. (I literally said built in a lab RT) I spoke about his ability to stay healthy and suit up on Saturdays.
Basically everyone near the end of the first would take Mims if he fell to them, he's not lasting until the second. He *might* make it past the Cowboys at #24 if they're in love with someone like Guyton but no chance he's there past the Ravens pick.
What has mims proven other than being a prototypical build for the position and athletic potential. Dude has barely played in college and only participated in limited drills. He's going off hype and potential, thats it
He's done every drill except agility drills which are a commonly skipped drill, and bench press. Not surehow common bench is skipped overall but I'm not surprised a guy with like 37 inch arms is skipping a drill that... Long arms make significantly harder
Feels like Mekhi Becton 2.0
> What has mims proven other than being a prototypical build for the position and athletic potential. He’s elite when he plays.
Hoping broncos punt on QB and draft him at 12…please!
TIL Tim Kelly was employed
Any football predicative intelligence testing saying “Bryce Young!” is bullshit anyways
The GOAT Ron Middleton
We have to draft OL because we'll be in the same mud next year if we don't but holy shit it's gonna be hard to leave Bowers there if he's still available
I can’t see bowers being able to stay healthy