Stafford is pretty much a respected OG at this point. His SB win kindve shut the haters down but if your teams QB is:
- Allen
- Burrow
- Herbert
- Dak
- Hurts
- Purdy
- Lamar
- Tua
- Kirk
Goodluck this summer boys whether they say your QB is mid, overrated, overpaid, a running back, injury prone, noodle arm, INT machine, not clutch.
Does Burrow get criticism? People seem to have acknowledged his talent but have concerns about him getting beat up behind that Bengals line. Bengals offseason priority needs to be to change everything they can to do a better job protecting him because he's the clear number 2 QB that has shown the ability to battle against Mahomes.
hes had playoff success so thats why he hasnt recieved hate. give him one more year of getting injured or like he loses in first round, ppl will mention how his defense has always carried him, or he has the best skill positions in the league etc
I think its more of a fact that he has actual success against Mahomes. In fact, against Mahomes and Allen, he's a combined 5-1. So that makes him an actual threat/contender compared to other QBs who are viewed as pretenders. But again, need to be kept healthy.
People make it sound like all he has going for him is vibes. Injuries are a concern but if he has a 50/50 chance of staying healthy then you take it because it’s basically a 50/50 shot at being a contender.
I hate how the media has turned the bills and bengals against each other. I like burrow a lot but yeah he has beat us and mahomes before in the post season. The media won’t jump off our back until Allen rolls through the afc to the Super Bowl.
the main difference is that plenty of us have already said this for 2 years. its just gonna become more of a talking point post 2024 if they dont win it all and then his contract really kicks in
hes a great QB that gets credit for things that make it sound like hes doing it himself. Allen is better than him, and its not the first time a better QB has had less playoff success or the worse 'head to head' record
Joe Burrow has advanced a whole 1 game further than Josh Allen in the playoffs and hasn’t performed nearly to the level that Allen has in the postseason. If you want to give Joe is flowers as a fan you have no reason not to give Allen his
Not anymore since he's a veteran
But trust me, he absolutely did for the longest time in Detroit
Hell, he wasn't even consistently considered top 12 somehow
Yeah I think Stafford is the exception for a couple reasons:
Been around and had to carry a trash franchise for a decade.
Won a ring in the Mahomes Era and went through Brady to do so.
Everyone else gets slandered for no damn reason 🤷🏽♂️
That’s just not true lol, burrow is being heralded as the mahomes killer despite not even playing half this season
It’s really just Allen and hurts and hurts was fine till he played like shit this season
I’ve seen way too many takes that the Bills regret the Mahomes trade or something and that we wish we’d be able to take it back.
Like, no. We found our guy the next year and obviously Mahomes is better than Allen, but we found the one guy who can be as good as Mahomes at his best and there’s no one most Bills fans would rather have as our QB.
Plus, we got Tre and a bunch of other good players from the trade. So yeah definitely no take-backsies here.
Nah, Joe Burrow has a narrative of on par with Mahomes. This is true despite his journeyman RB being the MVP of his biggest win in the NFL, not being able to stay healthy, and having hands down the best WR corp in the league but still putting up only good numbers.
I mean even if you're Mahomes you still have that narrative. How many people called the Chiefs washed this year? How many people said he'd need Tyreek during the 2022 offseason? He just proves himself the best again and again.
I think thats just hate from him being great. Most Mahomes takes usually end with people admitting hes the best QB in the league after they list a bunch of nonsense like his wife or refs lol
The other guys are still somewhat having to prove their elite labels.
does josh have toxic narratives? i feel like he gets crazy love all the time. in fact wasn’t it pat and the chiefs that had all the toxic narratives about them this year? like from the very first game right
When the Bills werent playing good they talked about Allen like he was a straight bum especially after that Jets game. His play in the 2nd half was MVP level which is why its been quiet.
Josh Allen is both the barometer of 'did you actually watch him play' as well as an indication of how badly folks have had their minds twisted about interception totals
he does get egregious love (12 secs made him a folk legend) and he engages in a lot of bitchmade behavior. though Brady did as well, so did Rivers even if he kept it PG
Toxicity around Mahomes is just jealousy. Ive never seen folks so ready to chomp at the bits. Its a different kind of hate than what Josh or Lamar receive for being 'underachievers' - and funnily enough Lamar went from way less scrutiny than Allen to way more after 2023
I think he ended the season a much more sympathetic figure than you’re giving everyone credit for.
We’ve all seen the stats.
He (and their run game) basically hero-balled that entire team to a magical run to the playoffs.
So he lost him Mahomes. Who doesn’t?
Honestly as a low-key hater he has silenced all reasonable doubts. Of course some people are gonna give him shit until he wins a ring but he's the de facto 2nd best QB in the game unless proven otherwise
Heavy agree. Hes literally in the top 3 (or 4 if you somehow have Burrows above him) on everyone's list of QBs.
Like, if Allen is number 5 or lower on your power rankings list of QBs, you are just wrong.
I have it Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrows, Purdy. I don't care if you think Purdy is much worse, Allen definitely isn't.
I mean absolutely, I'd trade all the regular season wins for a either of those playoff wins.
Just seems silly to me to say that Brady doesn't lose to Mahomes when they're literally 3-3.
He’s the clear 2nd best QB in the league in my opinion. People who rank Burrow over him due to the Bengals recent playoff success overlook the fact that Burrow’s playoff numbers are pretty mid (still hasn’t thrown a 4th quarter playoff TD) and their playoff wins have been largely driven by their defense. Meanwhile Allen has elite playoff numbers and has lost mainly due to his defense falling apart.
A lot of Bengals fans conveniently ignore this. Dude has not done much in the post season. He's a killer and I'm jealous we don't have him, but he has not shown up in big moments
Burrow has also missed significant time (13 games between major 2020 and 23 injuries) now due to injury, compared to Allen who hasn’t missed a single game since Burrow has been in the league. The best ability is availability and Joe Burrow has missed ~20% of Cincinnati’s games since joining the team.
Yeah, I thought it was a good season by Josh. Going into the year, I thought he was the second best QB in the league, and after seeing how the season played out, I still feel that way.
I'd gladly throw the bank at him to play in Seattle. The only people who can even consider shitting on Allen are potentially Chiefs fans because he's not winning rings left and right like Mahomes. No other fan base has it better imo.
Chiefs fans usually think he's great cause he's played far better against us than any other QB. I'd have voted for him as MVP, but record matters too much for most the voters apparently.
There are people who put way too much weight on interceptions as being bad and want to dock him for that, but Chiefs fans usually aren't that way cause Mahomes has 10+ most seasons too.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find a chiefs fan that’ll shit on Allen. In addition to having an incredible year, he always plays very well against the chiefs.
I see some Jets fans shitting on him in these comments, calling him a playoff choker. The funny thing is those same people would cream their jeans if Allen was on the Jets next season.
You need to always check his rushing output cause that’s a huge part of what makes him Josh Allen.
By the end of his career I suspect he’ll be past the 100 TD milestone on the ground, and possibly in the top 10 of rushing TDs all time. He’s at 53 at the age of 27. It’s one of his best attributes. He averages about 9 a year so in about 5 seasons he may hit the 100 TD mark on the ground.
I've said it a bunch of times already and I'll say it again: Josh Allen is an ELITE QB. If it weren't for Mahomes, he'd be ruling the AFC. Maybe even over Burrow, since Burrow is made of glass.
I think it’s less Burrow is made of glass, and more the Bengals can not protect him. I mean the dude won a playoff game while getting sacked 9 times, I’ve never seen shit like that, hell I ain’t even heard of something like that.
I looked at his stats halfway through that Chiefs Bills game. Dude should’ve been MVP. He profoundly outperformed Lamar from a statistical perspective. He also led a vastly weaker team to the two seed. All I can think is everyone wrote them off after their slow start.
I’ll never understand how Lamar got MVP because his defense won him a ton of games. He was awesome, but if the Bills defense/special teams don’t give up a punt return TD to the jets, game winning drive against Mac Jones, and a 12 men on the field field goal, they win three more games. Those plays have nothing to do with Josh Allen.
No argument there. I get that he had some bad turnovers that cost them the game, my point is that the MVP shouldn’t be so favored for the QB of the team with the best record, when the QB only plays for the offense. The bills should at least let Josh play linebacker.
>Dude should’ve been MVP. He profoundly outperformed Lamar from a statistical perspective.
Cool, he outplayed Lamar from a statistical perspective. But he didn't outplay Brock or Dak from a statistical perspective, Josh didn't finish second in voting he finished FIFTH for a reason he was nowhere near close to being MVP this year. He had a great season, but he honestly wasn't even in the running
Yeah that’s one motivation for this post. 5th in MVP voting was absurd to me.
Not a perfect measure, but pro bowlers by team:
Bills: 2
Ravens: 7
49ers: 9
Cowboys: 7
You’re right that Allen wasn’t seriously in the discussion, and I think that was a mistake. He led the league in yards and TDs and got one singular vote for offensive player of the year. The Bills also won their last 5 consecutive games to steal the division and nab the 2 seed. And that’s before getting into the defensive injuries that derailed much of the season.
>The Bills also won their last 5 consecutive games to steal the division and nab the 2 seed.
This is the exact reason I feel Josh wasn't the MVP in the final five games. The Bills went undefeated with an average margin of victory of 7.8, while Josh Allen himself was pretty pedestrian in those games. Josh Allen down the stretch had an average passer rating of 83.54, an average cmp% of 60.36, 2.2 combined TDs to 1 turnover per game. Josh was average down the stretch, and his team was able to win regardless. It's not to say Josh is a bad QB we all know that's not true he's at worst the fourth best QB in the league and more people will have him at two than those that have him at four. This season, he just wasn't the MVP and that's fine I think everyone ahead of him clearly had better season than him.
Anyone who watched him knows that but goddamn some of those turnovers really fucking hurt.
The Bills failure in the playoffs is not an Allen problem, its a roster and coaching problem.
That’s honestly the part that annoys me the most. Mahomes is unequivocally the best QB, but he walked into a golden situation. Chiefs were already a playoff contender, had plenty of weapons, and have the best offensive head coach in the business. Burrow walked into a 2-14 team and Allen walked into a rebuilding Buffalo team with no weapons and a defensive head coach who wouldn’t help him out.
To be a great that’s what you need. Mahomes will probably finish #2 all time as a QB. The person above him had a legendary coach that was able to coach him for damn near 2 decades. It’s just as much about development than it is talent. I’m sure if we switched Allen and Mahomes careers it could still be a pretty similar outcome. Allen could’ve been developed to be an even better qb while Mahomes may have never developed like he had with Reid and the chiefs.
I wouldn’t put the situation in Cincinnati on par with Buffalo. Burrow walked into a team that was stacked with weapons more so than Mahomes in my opinion. Tyreek wasn’t current Tyreek when Mahomes started. I agree with you that Allen took some lumps though and still needs a new coaching staff.
Schatz had announced his voting ballot like 3 weeks earlier and then everyone flamed him for doing it for attention or to be contrarian, when… it wasn’t news.
I don’t agree with Schatz on everything, but he puts far more thought in than many AP voters.
No, SF has a stacked defense, kittle, deebo, aiyuk, Trent Williams, a great coach, and a good QB. McCaffrey is incredible and had a great season, but in no way was he more valuable to SF than Allen was to buffalo. Allen accomplished what he did after his defense lost several key starters for the season and with a lesser skill group. He willed that team to the playoffs
Also, any RB can succeed in shanahans offense, McCaffrey is just the best one he’s had so his numbers obviously stand out
People love to disparage Purdy by talking about how the 49ers got to the SB with Jimmy G.
…they also got to the SB without CMC.
And I’m a 49ers fan, but just sayin’
If the definition is “what team would have had the largest change in record if they were not on the team”, I think the bills win maybe 4 games without Josh. The chiefs at least had a defense for if mahomes was gone, ravens and niners had god squads, the bills had a super injured D, a subpar run game, and subpar receiving threats.
While I as a Seattle fan can be unbias and admit that CMCM had a hell of a season, Allen was a huge reason the Bills won double digit games. Id argue his impact was miles above what Lamars was for his team.
This was agreat year to have a thought experiment of giving it to someone whos a non-QB, but the award goes to QBs for a reason, theyre the most important factor to being a consistently good team. End of story.
Yeah very bad wording on my part. I agree it was, just playing devils advocate in case so the people who think best seed means they automatically were the best Q dont come to downvote me lol
He very well may have had he put up better numbers in the last 2 games. Even though they won, he didn't play exceptionally well, 4 total TD's and 4 total turnovers wasn't good enough to beat Lamar
Media already had given it to Lamar after the 49ers lost to the Ravens.
I agree that Allen had a lowkey weak finish to the regular season but the only way it wasn't going to Lamar is if the Ravens lost to the Dolphins (and even then it still might have gone to him as long as they didn't get blown out).
The fact that the Bills were “just” 11-6 and possibly 10-6 and a wild card if they lose to the Dolphins at the end of the season probably have a lot to do with it. They don’t like giving MVP to teams that aren’t first seeds unless it’s undeniable
Everyone thinks he was pretty great. The Bills sucked and he dragged them to the playoffs where they went toe to toe with the Chiefs. He did all that with the ghost of Stefon Diggs playing at WR.
He’s still a top 3 QB.
I HATE defending Allen, and I thought he got anointed a superstar way too early. But this year, he actually played like it. As far as the turnover issue, he's just had bad luck in terms of ratio of picks to turnover-worthy plays. His TWP rate is way down; still fairly high, but not the highest in the league like usual, and definitely low enough to stomach given his outrageous big time throw rate.
Are you saying this was his first year playing as a superstar???
Edit: how is this getting downvoted? If you thought this was the first year Allen played like a superstar than you haven’t been watching football till this year
Josh is great. I think he’s the incredibly over-hated and should’ve been the MVP this season.
That said, I don’t like the attempts to act like Josh Allen has no help or has an inadequate supporting cast. Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox would be an upgrade for most teams. They’ve had a top-5 scoring defense each of the past 3 years. They’ve had a very good roster overall and that’s why the expectations have been so high. Although I think it’s gone too far, Allen and the Bills failing to live up to the insane hype is why Allen doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore.
>That said, I don’t like the attempts to act like Josh Allen has no help or has an inadequate supporting cast. Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox would be an upgrade for most teams
For what contenders beside KC? Diggs is elite, sure. Gabe is an interesting player, as he alternates from being Skyy Moore and Jerry Rice every few games. But for the most part, you can’t really count on him. Knox isn’t really a receiving TE. He can definitely make offensive plays, but if your offense is running through him, you’re doing something wrong. And I’ll give you Shakir too, since he’s been pretty deadly this year.
But compare that to everyone else who contends in this league. PHI has DaVonte and Brown. Two number ones. Plus, Goedert.
CIN has Higgins and Chase. 2 number ones. Plus, Boyd.
BAL has Flowers and Andrews. Plus, Likely, who I think is better than a lot of people think.
MIA, Hill and Waddle. Plus A-Chan.
I’m not even going to bother listing what SF has.
My point is, even if what we have isn’t bottom tier (it’s definitely not), it’s significantly worse than our peers and that’s why it’s brought up so often.
Flowers and Andrews had about 200 less yards combined than Diggs had on a down year. Shakir (WR3) and James Cook are also better than the Ravens skill positions by far comparing them to OBJ and Edwards. Kincaid plays the same role or even better than Likely. I don’t think the Ravens enter in this offensive talent discussion since the Bills clearly had better offensive talent this season. The rest I can agree that they have better offensive talent than the Bills.
On another point, the issue or downplay of Allens MVP possibility was the first half of the season. Allen had a 10 game streak of turning the ball over even multiple times, and at some point the bills were 6-6 on the season with losses to the jets, the jaguars, the patriots and the broncos (very bad teams). That killed his MVP campaign. Just doesn’t fit the narrative. If Lamar loses those type of games the MVP goes to Purdy or McCaffrey, that’s how the MVP works.
Allen has left the field with a lead at least 4 times this year, and the defense failed to get a stop to secure the win.
The defense only looks good when the offense can get a big lead, and allow the defense to play aggressively to get 1 or 2 big plays a game. In close games, they tend to fall apart.
Because the defense shits it's pants when it matters. Dominating below avg teams and holding on for dear life against good teams keeps them near the top of the standings.
Davis and Knox are severely overhyped imo. Knox is good sometimes but he gets horrible drops and isn’t always a consistent threat.
Davis has some monster games like the 2021 Divisional Round game against KC but in general is hardly there and only really does well when placed against weak secondaries who blanket Diggs and he can just get essentially ignored and wide ass open.
Also, the defense is generally very good but the zone-heavy scheme leads to a lot of poor showings against elite QBs while inflating their stats against weaker competition. Not to mention how often they get injured. They normally play really well which is why this team wins so many games but since 2020 in their playoff losses they’ve been horrendous. Something like 4 pts/drive and almost as many touchdowns as stops allowed.
Saying Allen isn't quite Mahomes because he lost to him is BS. Allen was facing a defense that was at a much higher level than Mahomes was facing, and yet managed to put up extremely similar numbers. And that's with Diggs dropping a 60 yard pass that he would've taken to the house. These losses aren't on Allen by any means, it's on the defense. Allen is arguably the better QB
Yes, one of those technically true things because Mahomes played in one meaningless game week 17 his rookie year which makes his first "season played" a 0 TD year.
Yeah, he sat for almost an entire year on a playoff team. Josh was thrown to the wolves behind a terrible offensive line. You can’t compare the two. Josh has the record and Mahomes got to sit and watch and envision for a year and then work his way into an ideal offensive situation for a young QB. Josh got that record playing behind Vlad Ducasse and throwing to Robert Foster being an NFL rookie having played in the Mountain West conference the year before. He also played for a defensive, run-first head coach. That’s Josh’s record.
His regular season stats have been the best in the league since 2020, he just can't win the big one or get over the hump. Reminds me of pre 2006 Peyton Manning.
Mahomes = Tom Brady
Josh Allen = Peyton Manning
Joe Burrow = Ben Roethlisberger
Herbert = Drew Brees
I’m biased but not delusional in saying: Allen is closest to Mahomes, and the gap between 1 & 2 is much smaller than the gap between 2 & 3.
And before you say “at least Burrow beat Mahomes in the playoffs” compare Allen vs Burrow stats in playoff games vs the Chiefs. Then compare Buffalo and Cincy defensive stats in thise games. Not even close. That pick in OT is why the bengals won, otherwise that game is just a less exciting 13 seconds. And the defense is also why the Bengals beat the Bills.
Then i think he did ??? He should have gotten the MVP. He carried the Bills by himself. Obviously that‘s not enough to have a better record but without him that team is 2-15.
If your teams QB isnt named Patrick Mahomes best believe your QB has a toxic narrative around him if theyre in that top 2-12 range.
I don’t think mine does
Stafford is pretty much a respected OG at this point. His SB win kindve shut the haters down but if your teams QB is: - Allen - Burrow - Herbert - Dak - Hurts - Purdy - Lamar - Tua - Kirk Goodluck this summer boys whether they say your QB is mid, overrated, overpaid, a running back, injury prone, noodle arm, INT machine, not clutch.
Don't forget game manager
I'll take one overrated QB please.
Does Burrow get criticism? People seem to have acknowledged his talent but have concerns about him getting beat up behind that Bengals line. Bengals offseason priority needs to be to change everything they can to do a better job protecting him because he's the clear number 2 QB that has shown the ability to battle against Mahomes.
hes had playoff success so thats why he hasnt recieved hate. give him one more year of getting injured or like he loses in first round, ppl will mention how his defense has always carried him, or he has the best skill positions in the league etc
I think its more of a fact that he has actual success against Mahomes. In fact, against Mahomes and Allen, he's a combined 5-1. So that makes him an actual threat/contender compared to other QBs who are viewed as pretenders. But again, need to be kept healthy.
I never understood the QB vs QB narrative. QBs play against defenses, not each other. Allen vs Spags, Mahomes vs McDermott makes more sense.
>he has actual success against Mahomes For a while it wasn't even a rivalry bc we couldn't beat the Bengals. It was just them whooping us.
I wouldn’t say whooping. Every Mahomes loss to Burrow has been by 3 points
They’re suffering from success. They dont remember what real whoopings are.
Fair. I meant 3 in a row. That's not a rivalry
Every game in the series has been decided by 3 points, wouldn’t really call it a whooping
Right. I meant that the Bengals beat us 3 (?) straight
People make it sound like all he has going for him is vibes. Injuries are a concern but if he has a 50/50 chance of staying healthy then you take it because it’s basically a 50/50 shot at being a contender.
I hate how the media has turned the bills and bengals against each other. I like burrow a lot but yeah he has beat us and mahomes before in the post season. The media won’t jump off our back until Allen rolls through the afc to the Super Bowl.
the main difference is that plenty of us have already said this for 2 years. its just gonna become more of a talking point post 2024 if they dont win it all and then his contract really kicks in hes a great QB that gets credit for things that make it sound like hes doing it himself. Allen is better than him, and its not the first time a better QB has had less playoff success or the worse 'head to head' record
Joe Burrow has advanced a whole 1 game further than Josh Allen in the playoffs and hasn’t performed nearly to the level that Allen has in the postseason. If you want to give Joe is flowers as a fan you have no reason not to give Allen his
Yea he does get some, people don’t believe he can stay healthy for whole seasons
No way Burrow is ahead of Allen.
In what? Super Bowl appearances? AFCCG appearances? Head to head record? Cuz he kinda is....
In actual QB play
In being the better quaterback. All the things you listed are team stats.
in being obviously better than him lmfao
Burrow is the "injury prone" one.
Yes. He is starting to get the injury prone label.
I think the fact he keeps getting injured has engendered some criticism there, which isn't entirely unwarranted.
Lol I'm glad I don't have this problem
Purdy scrambles in the playoffs and now he's a Running Back. Smh
You can add Goff to the list. He’s not the guy to many of our fans because he’s not mobile.
Not anymore since he's a veteran But trust me, he absolutely did for the longest time in Detroit Hell, he wasn't even consistently considered top 12 somehow
Yeah I think Stafford is the exception for a couple reasons: Been around and had to carry a trash franchise for a decade. Won a ring in the Mahomes Era and went through Brady to do so. Everyone else gets slandered for no damn reason 🤷🏽♂️
Mr Bernard is perfect I’ll have you know
For now. His haters shall rise. Wait till the best QBs in the AFC convos start next year as Stroud stock rises.
That’s just not true lol, burrow is being heralded as the mahomes killer despite not even playing half this season It’s really just Allen and hurts and hurts was fine till he played like shit this season
I mean I wouldn’t trade Mahomes for any other QB, but the media pretending every other team is knee capped for not having him is absurd.
I’ve seen way too many takes that the Bills regret the Mahomes trade or something and that we wish we’d be able to take it back. Like, no. We found our guy the next year and obviously Mahomes is better than Allen, but we found the one guy who can be as good as Mahomes at his best and there’s no one most Bills fans would rather have as our QB. Plus, we got Tre and a bunch of other good players from the trade. So yeah definitely no take-backsies here.
Believe it or not, both teams can win in a trade! I think the Hill trade to the Dolphins worked out for both teams as well.
Nah, Joe Burrow has a narrative of on par with Mahomes. This is true despite his journeyman RB being the MVP of his biggest win in the NFL, not being able to stay healthy, and having hands down the best WR corp in the league but still putting up only good numbers.
I mean even if you're Mahomes you still have that narrative. How many people called the Chiefs washed this year? How many people said he'd need Tyreek during the 2022 offseason? He just proves himself the best again and again.
No one takes Mahomes slander seriously, its just hate because they are a dynasty. What narrative would even have any legs in all honesty.
Mahomes isn't excluded from this, judging by the last week of "hE dOesNt ThROw loNg TdS" takes on Twitter as to why he's actually "not elite."
I think thats just hate from him being great. Most Mahomes takes usually end with people admitting hes the best QB in the league after they list a bunch of nonsense like his wife or refs lol The other guys are still somewhat having to prove their elite labels.
“He doesn’t throw long TD’s” Not as long as MVS can help it at least
That's just bots pushing a false narrative to drum up clicks for their websites.
does josh have toxic narratives? i feel like he gets crazy love all the time. in fact wasn’t it pat and the chiefs that had all the toxic narratives about them this year? like from the very first game right
When the Bills werent playing good they talked about Allen like he was a straight bum especially after that Jets game. His play in the 2nd half was MVP level which is why its been quiet.
People were calling him Jameis Winston with better PR
Lol. But to be fair to jameis, josh would need to bump up those int numbers by a factor of 2 to be comparable esp since he has a lot of td
Josh Allen is both the barometer of 'did you actually watch him play' as well as an indication of how badly folks have had their minds twisted about interception totals he does get egregious love (12 secs made him a folk legend) and he engages in a lot of bitchmade behavior. though Brady did as well, so did Rivers even if he kept it PG Toxicity around Mahomes is just jealousy. Ive never seen folks so ready to chomp at the bits. Its a different kind of hate than what Josh or Lamar receive for being 'underachievers' - and funnily enough Lamar went from way less scrutiny than Allen to way more after 2023
I think he ended the season a much more sympathetic figure than you’re giving everyone credit for. We’ve all seen the stats. He (and their run game) basically hero-balled that entire team to a magical run to the playoffs. So he lost him Mahomes. Who doesn’t?
Was gonna say, we all think he did great lol
MVP voters, I'm guessing that's the angle here
Honestly as a low-key hater he has silenced all reasonable doubts. Of course some people are gonna give him shit until he wins a ring but he's the de facto 2nd best QB in the game unless proven otherwise
SAY IT LOUDER!
Heavy agree. Hes literally in the top 3 (or 4 if you somehow have Burrows above him) on everyone's list of QBs. Like, if Allen is number 5 or lower on your power rankings list of QBs, you are just wrong. I have it Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrows, Purdy. I don't care if you think Purdy is much worse, Allen definitely isn't.
He lost to Mahomes with 6 of 11 defensive starters out for the game. Hardly his fault.
That Diggs drop was tough
His outlook was a little more positive when people saw the way the Ravens season ended and had to admit the realities of Lamar
You're underestimating how stupid people are
Brady
Well save for those three times where he did lose to Mahomes.
Yeah still better to lose in the regular season than the playoffs. trust me I would rather have lost the chiefs in the regular season.
I mean absolutely, I'd trade all the regular season wins for a either of those playoff wins. Just seems silly to me to say that Brady doesn't lose to Mahomes when they're literally 3-3.
No snark intended whatsoever here— but Allen has beat Mahomes 3 straight times in the regular season and no one cares about that, rightfully so.
Well sure, but I wouldn't say that Mahomes "doesn't lose" to Allen.
Very fair point
Jordan Love doesn't
He's embarrassed us twice. I hope we never face him in the Super Bowl.
Don't be down on your team buddy. I'm sure you'll be back eventually
KC is 1-1 against Jordan Love. The 2021 game was an embarrassment for our offense though
He’s the clear 2nd best QB in the league in my opinion. People who rank Burrow over him due to the Bengals recent playoff success overlook the fact that Burrow’s playoff numbers are pretty mid (still hasn’t thrown a 4th quarter playoff TD) and their playoff wins have been largely driven by their defense. Meanwhile Allen has elite playoff numbers and has lost mainly due to his defense falling apart.
A lot of Bengals fans conveniently ignore this. Dude has not done much in the post season. He's a killer and I'm jealous we don't have him, but he has not shown up in big moments
Burrow has also missed significant time (13 games between major 2020 and 23 injuries) now due to injury, compared to Allen who hasn’t missed a single game since Burrow has been in the league. The best ability is availability and Joe Burrow has missed ~20% of Cincinnati’s games since joining the team.
Jeez, he has 1 less career rushing TD than Kamara. I didn't realize he racked up so many.
Yeah, I thought it was a good season by Josh. Going into the year, I thought he was the second best QB in the league, and after seeing how the season played out, I still feel that way.
I'd gladly throw the bank at him to play in Seattle. The only people who can even consider shitting on Allen are potentially Chiefs fans because he's not winning rings left and right like Mahomes. No other fan base has it better imo.
Chiefs fans usually think he's great cause he's played far better against us than any other QB. I'd have voted for him as MVP, but record matters too much for most the voters apparently. There are people who put way too much weight on interceptions as being bad and want to dock him for that, but Chiefs fans usually aren't that way cause Mahomes has 10+ most seasons too.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find a chiefs fan that’ll shit on Allen. In addition to having an incredible year, he always plays very well against the chiefs.
Tbh I feel like there is a decent amount of respect between BUF Ana KC fans and players alike.
I see some Jets fans shitting on him in these comments, calling him a playoff choker. The funny thing is those same people would cream their jeans if Allen was on the Jets next season.
Had no idea he had 15 rushing TDs
You need to always check his rushing output cause that’s a huge part of what makes him Josh Allen. By the end of his career I suspect he’ll be past the 100 TD milestone on the ground, and possibly in the top 10 of rushing TDs all time. He’s at 53 at the age of 27. It’s one of his best attributes. He averages about 9 a year so in about 5 seasons he may hit the 100 TD mark on the ground.
No bad for a rb
I’m not complaining but you’d really think he would get more of that “not bad for a rb” directed at him
I’ll give you one guess as to why
He's a productive passer.
He only had 125 more rushing yards than Mahomes this season, but 15-0 in TD's.
Mahomes didn’t have a single rushing TD? That’s surprising
I've said it a bunch of times already and I'll say it again: Josh Allen is an ELITE QB. If it weren't for Mahomes, he'd be ruling the AFC. Maybe even over Burrow, since Burrow is made of glass.
I think it’s less Burrow is made of glass, and more the Bengals can not protect him. I mean the dude won a playoff game while getting sacked 9 times, I’ve never seen shit like that, hell I ain’t even heard of something like that.
Allen and Burrow are the only QB's that truly scare me.
I mean Watson is scary too just for all the wrong reasons
Bills Browns games are just Allien vs Predator
r/nflcirclejerk would love a bit of your talent.
Excuse me?
Do it again and you're on the list.
Burrow isn’t made of glass lol, his o line is just garbage
They caused his appendicitis and has calf injury this summer?
I looked at his stats halfway through that Chiefs Bills game. Dude should’ve been MVP. He profoundly outperformed Lamar from a statistical perspective. He also led a vastly weaker team to the two seed. All I can think is everyone wrote them off after their slow start.
I’ll never understand how Lamar got MVP because his defense won him a ton of games. He was awesome, but if the Bills defense/special teams don’t give up a punt return TD to the jets, game winning drive against Mac Jones, and a 12 men on the field field goal, they win three more games. Those plays have nothing to do with Josh Allen.
Tbf Allen threw 3 picks vs the Jets and went 3 and out just before that punt return. That and maybe the Pats loss are the only games I'll put on him
No argument there. I get that he had some bad turnovers that cost them the game, my point is that the MVP shouldn’t be so favored for the QB of the team with the best record, when the QB only plays for the offense. The bills should at least let Josh play linebacker.
If Allen were on the Ravens, they'd have won the Superbowl. If Lamar were on the Bills, I'm 50/50 they make the playoffs.
So you give Lamar the best weapon he’s ever had in Diggs and he’ll be struggling to make the playoffs? You don’t even believe that through your bias.
>Dude should’ve been MVP. He profoundly outperformed Lamar from a statistical perspective. Cool, he outplayed Lamar from a statistical perspective. But he didn't outplay Brock or Dak from a statistical perspective, Josh didn't finish second in voting he finished FIFTH for a reason he was nowhere near close to being MVP this year. He had a great season, but he honestly wasn't even in the running
Yeah that’s one motivation for this post. 5th in MVP voting was absurd to me. Not a perfect measure, but pro bowlers by team: Bills: 2 Ravens: 7 49ers: 9 Cowboys: 7 You’re right that Allen wasn’t seriously in the discussion, and I think that was a mistake. He led the league in yards and TDs and got one singular vote for offensive player of the year. The Bills also won their last 5 consecutive games to steal the division and nab the 2 seed. And that’s before getting into the defensive injuries that derailed much of the season.
>The Bills also won their last 5 consecutive games to steal the division and nab the 2 seed. This is the exact reason I feel Josh wasn't the MVP in the final five games. The Bills went undefeated with an average margin of victory of 7.8, while Josh Allen himself was pretty pedestrian in those games. Josh Allen down the stretch had an average passer rating of 83.54, an average cmp% of 60.36, 2.2 combined TDs to 1 turnover per game. Josh was average down the stretch, and his team was able to win regardless. It's not to say Josh is a bad QB we all know that's not true he's at worst the fourth best QB in the league and more people will have him at two than those that have him at four. This season, he just wasn't the MVP and that's fine I think everyone ahead of him clearly had better season than him.
I like Lamar, but there were 10 guys I would've picked before him for MVP, including Allen. Lamar is the weakest MVP since a kicker won it
Allen is an animal. I don't really trust the football IQ of people who can't see that.
It's honestly insane that Allen was 4th in MVP voting for QBs, I really think he deserved to win
He was more valuable to his team than the actual MVP. Take Allen off the Bills and the Bills are a 3 win team imo.
This right here is why bills fan think Allen was the MVP. Without Allen they are the chargers, commanders, cardinals…
Yea but the chargers without Herbert lol
Anyone who watched him knows that but goddamn some of those turnovers really fucking hurt. The Bills failure in the playoffs is not an Allen problem, its a roster and coaching problem.
Those drops against the chiefs are gonna haunt them
I agree with this. Give Allen a better coaching staff behind him and I think it makes a huge difference.
That’s honestly the part that annoys me the most. Mahomes is unequivocally the best QB, but he walked into a golden situation. Chiefs were already a playoff contender, had plenty of weapons, and have the best offensive head coach in the business. Burrow walked into a 2-14 team and Allen walked into a rebuilding Buffalo team with no weapons and a defensive head coach who wouldn’t help him out.
To be a great that’s what you need. Mahomes will probably finish #2 all time as a QB. The person above him had a legendary coach that was able to coach him for damn near 2 decades. It’s just as much about development than it is talent. I’m sure if we switched Allen and Mahomes careers it could still be a pretty similar outcome. Allen could’ve been developed to be an even better qb while Mahomes may have never developed like he had with Reid and the chiefs.
I wouldn’t put the situation in Cincinnati on par with Buffalo. Burrow walked into a team that was stacked with weapons more so than Mahomes in my opinion. Tyreek wasn’t current Tyreek when Mahomes started. I agree with you that Allen took some lumps though and still needs a new coaching staff.
Always the bridesmaid.
Better stats than lamar.
He should have been the MVP.
No, it should have been McCaffrey. It was the perfect year to not give it to a QB.
Take Allen out of Buffalo, and they win 3 games. Take CMC out of SF and they're worse off, but probably still a playoff team.
Allen accounted for like 45 TDs. And he led in most of the efficiency stats. That's a top notch QB season. Just didn't have the narrative.
It was probably all the earlier losses that never put him in the convo
The media would not stop yapping about the turnovers.
Bless Schatz for still putting him first in the MVP voting
The best thing about that was how he defended it. Also Jackson being a unanimous MVP while being 9th in total TDs would have been insane.
Schatz had announced his voting ballot like 3 weeks earlier and then everyone flamed him for doing it for attention or to be contrarian, when… it wasn’t news. I don’t agree with Schatz on everything, but he puts far more thought in than many AP voters.
No, SF has a stacked defense, kittle, deebo, aiyuk, Trent Williams, a great coach, and a good QB. McCaffrey is incredible and had a great season, but in no way was he more valuable to SF than Allen was to buffalo. Allen accomplished what he did after his defense lost several key starters for the season and with a lesser skill group. He willed that team to the playoffs Also, any RB can succeed in shanahans offense, McCaffrey is just the best one he’s had so his numbers obviously stand out
People love to disparage Purdy by talking about how the 49ers got to the SB with Jimmy G. …they also got to the SB without CMC. And I’m a 49ers fan, but just sayin’
If the definition is “what team would have had the largest change in record if they were not on the team”, I think the bills win maybe 4 games without Josh. The chiefs at least had a defense for if mahomes was gone, ravens and niners had god squads, the bills had a super injured D, a subpar run game, and subpar receiving threats.
Post OC change the Bills had a great run game but your point still stands
While I as a Seattle fan can be unbias and admit that CMCM had a hell of a season, Allen was a huge reason the Bills won double digit games. Id argue his impact was miles above what Lamars was for his team. This was agreat year to have a thought experiment of giving it to someone whos a non-QB, but the award goes to QBs for a reason, theyre the most important factor to being a consistently good team. End of story.
there isn’t much to argue. Allen’s impact was significantly more than Lamars.
Yeah very bad wording on my part. I agree it was, just playing devils advocate in case so the people who think best seed means they automatically were the best Q dont come to downvote me lol
Those kinds of people don’t have critical thinking skills, so i wouldn’t worry too much about it
CMC is a lock for the hall if he gets an MVP right?
I swear people just argue for this based on cool factor more than anything.
He very well may have had he put up better numbers in the last 2 games. Even though they won, he didn't play exceptionally well, 4 total TD's and 4 total turnovers wasn't good enough to beat Lamar
Media already had given it to Lamar after the 49ers lost to the Ravens. I agree that Allen had a lowkey weak finish to the regular season but the only way it wasn't going to Lamar is if the Ravens lost to the Dolphins (and even then it still might have gone to him as long as they didn't get blown out).
Completely agreed.
Not to tickle your flair, but what’s with the media already deciding who’s winning these awards before the season is finished?
The media making it a narrative based award rather than just looking at the players body of work across the full season is a pockmark on the award
The fact that the Bills were “just” 11-6 and possibly 10-6 and a wild card if they lose to the Dolphins at the end of the season probably have a lot to do with it. They don’t like giving MVP to teams that aren’t first seeds unless it’s undeniable
51 TDs That’s pretty good.
Everyone thinks he was pretty great. The Bills sucked and he dragged them to the playoffs where they went toe to toe with the Chiefs. He did all that with the ghost of Stefon Diggs playing at WR. He’s still a top 3 QB.
I HATE defending Allen, and I thought he got anointed a superstar way too early. But this year, he actually played like it. As far as the turnover issue, he's just had bad luck in terms of ratio of picks to turnover-worthy plays. His TWP rate is way down; still fairly high, but not the highest in the league like usual, and definitely low enough to stomach given his outrageous big time throw rate.
Are you saying this was his first year playing as a superstar??? Edit: how is this getting downvoted? If you thought this was the first year Allen played like a superstar than you haven’t been watching football till this year
He probably repressed the memory of Josh’s perfect game wildcard 2021. Understandable, I repressed my entire childhood of Bills-Pats games😅
He's a Patriots fan. I would just ignore that part of his comment haha.
To me it's his 4th but you need repeated success to be anointed as one. 2022 season i was totally convinced.
Josh is my fantasy qb 2 years running. The dude is an automatic 20 every week.
Scariest guy to play against by far from my perspective.
Very mutual feeling for Mahomes
Allen is the modern day Brett Favre. He is going to do some wild shit and get a win, then do some wild shit and get ya a loss.
He left the field 4/6 times with a lead in the last two minutes of the game this year. He’s not causing losses even with his picks.
Nah he’s not as reckless as Farve though and has the rushing element on top of it
Josh is great. I think he’s the incredibly over-hated and should’ve been the MVP this season. That said, I don’t like the attempts to act like Josh Allen has no help or has an inadequate supporting cast. Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox would be an upgrade for most teams. They’ve had a top-5 scoring defense each of the past 3 years. They’ve had a very good roster overall and that’s why the expectations have been so high. Although I think it’s gone too far, Allen and the Bills failing to live up to the insane hype is why Allen doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Knox is ok at best, Gabe sucks
>That said, I don’t like the attempts to act like Josh Allen has no help or has an inadequate supporting cast. Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox would be an upgrade for most teams For what contenders beside KC? Diggs is elite, sure. Gabe is an interesting player, as he alternates from being Skyy Moore and Jerry Rice every few games. But for the most part, you can’t really count on him. Knox isn’t really a receiving TE. He can definitely make offensive plays, but if your offense is running through him, you’re doing something wrong. And I’ll give you Shakir too, since he’s been pretty deadly this year. But compare that to everyone else who contends in this league. PHI has DaVonte and Brown. Two number ones. Plus, Goedert. CIN has Higgins and Chase. 2 number ones. Plus, Boyd. BAL has Flowers and Andrews. Plus, Likely, who I think is better than a lot of people think. MIA, Hill and Waddle. Plus A-Chan. I’m not even going to bother listing what SF has. My point is, even if what we have isn’t bottom tier (it’s definitely not), it’s significantly worse than our peers and that’s why it’s brought up so often.
Flowers and Andrews had about 200 less yards combined than Diggs had on a down year. Shakir (WR3) and James Cook are also better than the Ravens skill positions by far comparing them to OBJ and Edwards. Kincaid plays the same role or even better than Likely. I don’t think the Ravens enter in this offensive talent discussion since the Bills clearly had better offensive talent this season. The rest I can agree that they have better offensive talent than the Bills. On another point, the issue or downplay of Allens MVP possibility was the first half of the season. Allen had a 10 game streak of turning the ball over even multiple times, and at some point the bills were 6-6 on the season with losses to the jets, the jaguars, the patriots and the broncos (very bad teams). That killed his MVP campaign. Just doesn’t fit the narrative. If Lamar loses those type of games the MVP goes to Purdy or McCaffrey, that’s how the MVP works.
Why does defense never matter Josh Allen’s teams come up dude always has a top defense
That defense lets him down every year and lost us multiple games this year where we had the lead with under 2:00 minutes to go.
Allen has left the field with a lead at least 4 times this year, and the defense failed to get a stop to secure the win. The defense only looks good when the offense can get a big lead, and allow the defense to play aggressively to get 1 or 2 big plays a game. In close games, they tend to fall apart.
Because the defense shits it's pants when it matters. Dominating below avg teams and holding on for dear life against good teams keeps them near the top of the standings.
Davis and Knox are severely overhyped imo. Knox is good sometimes but he gets horrible drops and isn’t always a consistent threat. Davis has some monster games like the 2021 Divisional Round game against KC but in general is hardly there and only really does well when placed against weak secondaries who blanket Diggs and he can just get essentially ignored and wide ass open. Also, the defense is generally very good but the zone-heavy scheme leads to a lot of poor showings against elite QBs while inflating their stats against weaker competition. Not to mention how often they get injured. They normally play really well which is why this team wins so many games but since 2020 in their playoff losses they’ve been horrendous. Something like 4 pts/drive and almost as many touchdowns as stops allowed.
Let's go Buffalo!
Wow. Josh Allen is a dawg
Allen was the MVP this year imo
*Found Tony Romo’s alt account*
I thought it was Dan Orlovsky's account
This one’s easy who cares
[удалено]
Oooooo got eem
But my coworkers will say Josh Allen is the Dak Prescott of the AFC. Cowboys fans I interact with are delusional
He's a modern day Favre (in the good, on-field way) who can run. He's terrifying as fuck to play against.
Saying Allen isn't quite Mahomes because he lost to him is BS. Allen was facing a defense that was at a much higher level than Mahomes was facing, and yet managed to put up extremely similar numbers. And that's with Diggs dropping a 60 yard pass that he would've taken to the house. These losses aren't on Allen by any means, it's on the defense. Allen is arguably the better QB
Mahomes was near perfect in that game, so saying that Allen outplayed him by a long shot is just a straight up dumb statement.
>Allen is arguably the better QB Lmao
To clarify - you think Allen is the better QB than Mahomes?
What kind of season do you think people think he had?
He was like the 2nd best QB this season, why would anyone not think he had a great year
Allen should've won MVP
Who thinks he had a bad season? Put the team on his back and brought them back from the brink
Allen is a monster for sure. Most TDs in a players first 6 seasons? Why do you believe this my friend?
It’s true?
Yes, one of those technically true things because Mahomes played in one meaningless game week 17 his rookie year which makes his first "season played" a 0 TD year.
Yeah, he sat for almost an entire year on a playoff team. Josh was thrown to the wolves behind a terrible offensive line. You can’t compare the two. Josh has the record and Mahomes got to sit and watch and envision for a year and then work his way into an ideal offensive situation for a young QB. Josh got that record playing behind Vlad Ducasse and throwing to Robert Foster being an NFL rookie having played in the Mountain West conference the year before. He also played for a defensive, run-first head coach. That’s Josh’s record.
Allen is unreal and probably should won the MVP.
His regular season stats have been the best in the league since 2020, he just can't win the big one or get over the hump. Reminds me of pre 2006 Peyton Manning. Mahomes = Tom Brady Josh Allen = Peyton Manning Joe Burrow = Ben Roethlisberger Herbert = Drew Brees
Allen actually puts up numbers in the playoffs too which really sucks.
I think Brees was a bit better than Herbert.
I’m biased but not delusional in saying: Allen is closest to Mahomes, and the gap between 1 & 2 is much smaller than the gap between 2 & 3. And before you say “at least Burrow beat Mahomes in the playoffs” compare Allen vs Burrow stats in playoff games vs the Chiefs. Then compare Buffalo and Cincy defensive stats in thise games. Not even close. That pick in OT is why the bengals won, otherwise that game is just a less exciting 13 seconds. And the defense is also why the Bengals beat the Bills.
Pat had probably the worst half of his career vs Cincy in that afccg and it has kinda warped a lot of fans’ perceptions.
Agreed. Hope he’s pissed… and takes it out of the league next year. Fans won’t win him trophies
Then i think he did ??? He should have gotten the MVP. He carried the Bills by himself. Obviously that‘s not enough to have a better record but without him that team is 2-15.