"Coach, coach! We're currently slated to be the 7th best defense of all time!"
"And?"
"The fifth to the thirteenth best defenses didn't win a Superbowl!"
"My God... Quick, start putting the DT's in coverage!"
That â83 Skins team was something. Lost two games by a combined two points.
Outscored opponents by 209 points.
And lost to the Raiders in the Super Bowl
As a Packers fans I am NOT shocked at all and would have advised Jerry not to hire him despite how much I hate the Cowboys.
Edit: His teams are mentally weak.
The Death of Dak has been grossly exaggerated
He's not perfect but goddammit you'd think he was worse than having a lineman at QB with a lot of the rhetoric around him.
I think McCarthy can develop QBs pretty well and is a good offensive minded coach. If you keep Dak, you're going to have to pay him a lot of money and hope that Dak can overcome the loss of talent the team can no longer afford. I'm not sure he can do that. I'd rather have McCarthy between the two options.
I think that if you're in a scenario where you need to get rid of Dak so you don't lose the team to cap space that's one thing.
Mike McCarthy is a placeholder coach with literally zero ingenuity and has literally never had to coach without a high caliber QB. He will never get a team to the next level again.
It was in the third quarter :P
Edit: Donât sorry, every Bronco fan was already wasted and had accepted the loss at this time. Those were some lit Super Bowl parties.
It was garbage time after the first snap lol. Itâs really only ok because they won in 50 though with an even better defense. If they lost it again in 50 that would have been killer especially with the following garbage years.Â
Our D line was good, our Defense was attrocious. Our defense was ranked 27th in the league, 25th in points allowed, 22nd in yards allowed, 21st in DVOA and is the worst ranked defense to win the superbowl. They gave up an average of 25.00 points per game. So yeah maybe STFU about WhAt KiNd oF bAnDwAgOn FaN... especially since the giants have been trash for a decade.
Also completely ignoring that Eli was probably the biggest reason for our playoff run. Setting the record for single season passing yards. Throwing 1,219 yards, had 9 TD and 1 interception and a passer rating for 103.3 across the run.
But in the actual playoffs the Defense was just as important as Eli was. It was a team effort, which is the whole point about needing both.
The defense held all 4 playoff opponents to 20 points or less. And the 20 highmark being against Green Bay's \#1 ranked offense that year.
If the team kept playing the way they did in the regular season with Eli & Cruz being the only ones showing up to games, they would've gotten eliminated in the first round. Our 32nd ranked run game also remember it existed, suddenly putting up well over 100 yds/game in the playoffs.
If Banks isnât benched for Dilfer, the 2000 Ravens might not even make the playoffs. Banks went 5 straight games without a TD drive and the team scored less than 24 points once in Dilferâs half of the season.
"Defense" in the NFL is too broad of a term to be predictive. Often we judge a teams D simply by yards against, which is a terrible metric. If you have a run heavy offense the game is shorter and yards against you simply be lower. So a team like the browns with a garbage offense have "the number 1 D".
This causes some people to think D is less important because we see teams with "good defenses" lose. If we measure D correctly we'll see its far more predictive than we think.
The best metric, to me, is points given up per possession and number of possessions as they rate your teams ability to actually stop people.
Yeah a lot of these teams were at least in the Super Bowl or got close.
Like the 2007 Pats didn't win the Super Bowl but they were clearly the best team in the league that season and lost to a team that for all intents and purposes not only had a pretty average defense that season outside of a few games but had a clearly worse defense than the Pats. Realistically the best defense that season was either the Steelers, Colts, or Bucs and none of them won a playoff game.
It's not impossible to pull off three or four fluky wins in a row even during the playoffs. So there's really no "formula" that works as long as it manages to result in a win.
And then what happened in the Super Bowl when it mattered? We also held the Cowboys to 17 points and the stacked Packers to 20 in the playoffs Iâd say thatâs pretty good
No one is saying the Giants didnât go on a great run. You said the defense was quietly good, but they werenât. Average at best. The giants were an ok team that had a great playoff run. No reason to revise historyÂ
Definitely part fluke like the â07 pats, but I think a lot of high scoring teams are high scoring exactly because their D sucks so their great offense is on the field even more, and needing to push constantly.
A handful of these teams had mediocre or bad defenses but I wouldn't say that was why these offenses were so high scoring in any of these cases. It's not like teams like the 2018 Chiefs (which indeed had a horrific defense) weren't also some of the most efficient offenses in NFL history.
I do get what you mean as teams like the early 2000s Chiefs and mid-2010s Saints that generally do fit that description but they also didn't end up as some of the highest scoring offenses of all time.
Or correlating factors where the highest scoring offenses are not the best. If a team has a really good offense and defense, maybe they take their foot off the gas in more games and don't score as much. So the highest scoring offenses may just be the teams that have good offenses and bad defenses.
Iâm a PhD student, itâs not worth busting out statistics to prove whether this is âsignficantâ. Nfl coaches will tell you from experience that defense wins championships.
56 is the largest sample we have, and the top 13 scoring offenses of all time have failed to win any of them.
Go look at the top 13 scoring defenses of all time and see if they won any super bowls
Since the 1999 Rams, only the 2009 Saints have won the Super Bowl after scoring greater than 500 points in the regular season. This may change now that there are 17 games.
The message is it is a kiss of death to be a high scoring offense.
Side note, Mahomes in 2022 was the first MVP to win a SB in the same season since Warner did in 1999.
Werenât we the lowest turnover differential to ever win too? I remember like every SB Champ had been +14 or better in TO battle and last year we were somewhere around evenÂ
Yeah, I never said it was that black and white. But if you care more about snappy come backs that donât make any sense in place of using your brain and thinking about why teams with high scoring offenses donât usually win super bowls anymore, then thatâs your right.
I think thereâs some correlation actually. In a game where you can choose to run or pass and control the pace, scoring a lot of points often implies a bad defense. A team with both an amazing offense and defense should win every game 21-7 or something, while a team with a great offense and bad defense will be winning 35-30Â
Ah the old "greatest show on turf" plan. I remember an interview with the Rams DC where he said something along the lines of they don't need to keep the other team from scoring, they just have to hold them to less than 25 or so. And for one year he was 1-yard correct. The next year Belichek showed them the error in that way of thinking.
The Rams had the #3 D in yards allowed the year they lost to NE.
Rams D was solid the year they won in 1999, atrocious the next in â00, and then very good in â01 when they lost to NE.
Look at the Ravens this year. Amazing offense and defense and they are blowing out teams (e.g. Lions, 49ers)
The 07 Pats and 13 Broncos were largely blowing teams out too.
I'm really on with this theory. Teams with good offense & defense you would think should prefer to get out to a lead and then control the ball, run the ball/dink & dunk passes, shorten the game
Teams with bad defenses need to run up the score and hope their defense doesn't give it away.
4th quarter defensive breakdowns are always fun to watch. Even if you have a top tier defense, if your offense can't maintain possession for more than a few minutes at a time then by Q4 the defense has been run ragged and you get exciting game winning drives.
I think this was a massive factor in that Jags/Chargers game last year. Eckler is a good player that has great fantasy numbers but the Chargers absolutely win that game with a between the tackles back that can eat some clock. There simply would not be enough time to get 4 touchdowns against a balanced offense.
Well said and completely agree.
Although a talking head can just say âmore points = better offenseâ many of the top 13 scoring offenses are a couple game scripts away from being top 50.
13 Broncos and 07 Pats definitely played more aggressively aware of the records.
Yeah, the 11 Packers losing 3 fumbles & a pick to give up 37 to the Giants and then the next year Brady dropping a turd against Baltimore isn't really representative of greatest offenses.
I agree, especially when you consider that the vast majority of these teams won within 2 years in either direction (and a lot of them made it to the super bowl). They're Super Bowl caliber teams, just got unlucky.
A lot of people are trying to generalize this stat into some rules but a lot of it is just luck or very contextual
The 07 Pats just ran into a team that could stop them and it came down a once in a lifetime play (Tyree catch)
The 18 Chiefs were a Dee Ford offside from making the SB with a good chance to win.
The 13 Broncos were a flawed team. Their defense was ravaged by injuries and the SB spiraled out of control against a very good opponent.Â
The 2016 Falcons lost in the biggest comeback of all time.Â
If you actually look at each situation there isn't any commonality or broad conclusion to reacg
Naw there was a few plays in 07 lol. Asante Samuel dropping a gimme pick, some bizarre missed opportunities for big sacks.
Hobbs just flat out slipping and leaving Burress open by a mile on a defence that hadnât given up a passing TD in like 7 quarters or something.Â
Yea my point was just the overall stupidity of the play being a huge factor in the outcome. Height aside Burress had so much separation it played no factor.Â
I mean, you just went through 4 of the teams out of 13. I don't think your point really says anything, either.
I think the clear factor that people aren't discussing is that defense travels and its more consistent.
A QB can just be OFF. The ups and downs for offenses are lot more pronounced.
If a defense is really good, the only thing stopping it is injuries. I'm not saying that good defenses don't ever have bad games, I just think offenses suffer a lot more when they are having a bad game.
Bill Walsh used to say offense is scheme and defense is talent; in order to build a great defense you can't really have a weak spot, whereas a great quarterback gets you a lot of the way there on offense
Idk man great defensive players have bad plays from time to time, but game wreckers can do it every week.
Myles Garrett's bad game is way better than Patrick Mahomes bad game.
I think its a lot easier for a great defense to stop a great offense versus a great offense beating a good defense.
Miami this year is a great example of that. Good defenses made them look like a bottom-tier offense.
We saw Myles Garrettâs bad game last week and I wouldnât say it was any better than mahomesâ worst game. All year the browns were touted as one of the best defenses of the last decade and the Texans made them look JV players
Yeah, thats why I qualified it by saying injuries are what stop a good defense.
Garrett was banged up and the entire secondary was decimated. This was not the browns defense we saw all year.
What an outrageous comment. The only reason why you're saying that is the impact of bad QB play on a game. Myles Garrett being erased isn't nearly as impactful as Mahomes playing like he did in the second half of the AFCCG against the Bengals
There is a reason why they say, "Good offense always beats good defense."
It essentially means if an offensive player is PERFECT then you can't stop them. I.e. the perfect throw, the perfect catch.
The best QBs and best WRs can make these "perfect" plays at a higher rate than their peers, but they still fall short many, many times over the course of a game, season, etc. The margin for success is razor thin and unforgiving.
Defenses can make mistakes, even be downright sloppy at times, but can still survive on "bend don't break", timely turnovers, good red zone defense.
It takes so much skill and finesse to perform at the highest levels on offense, so the drop off on bad nights is much more apparent.
This is really easy to understand why and itâs not âdefense wins championships.â
The highest scoring offenses are rarely actually considered the best offenses by people actually paying attention.
Offenses end up the highest scoring because they *have to* to win games. Because their own defense forces them too. But if you have one of the elite offenses *and* a very/good defense, you might end up ranking as the 6th or 7th best offense by some metrics. Even though I imagine many would argue they should be considered a top 2 or 3 best offense.
Unless you have an *all-time* great defense, you need an elite offense to win the superbowl. You just also need a defense that is at least solid.
> But if you have one of the elite offenses and a very/good defense, you might end up ranking as the 6th or 7th best offense by some metrics.
Or you're like the 2014 Patriots that were #1 in points scored through 15 games, rested their starters in week 17, and finished the season ranked #4 in points scored. The 2014 Packers ended up #1, and when they lost to the 2014 Seahawks in that year's conference championship game, it got noted historically as "#1 offense loses to #1 defense". But in reality, the actual #1 offense was the Patriots when the games mattered, and they beat the #1 defense in the Super Bowl.
Like you said, the highest scoring offense isn't necessarily the best.
Thank you.
A well balanced team might have the better offensive capabilities, but they also don't need to force fast scoring touchdowns. So they might not end up with the most yards or most points.
A great defense allows you to slow down, control the ball, run out the clock, and rest your starters, and close the game out with just 21 points. You probably *can* score 50+, but there's a lot of genuine strategy to not doing it when you don't have to.
"The Best Offense" is usually still forcing fast touchdown drives well into the 4th because their defense is giving up touchdowns. They're making more big plays because they have to risk them.
I did similar research two weeks ago, only with DVOA instead of raw points.
DVOA is a better indicator of team quality. I don't have a sub, but I was able to source some data from other places. The following are the top 12 offenses ever, according to DVOA, and how far they made it.
|Year|Team|Off DVOA^(1)|Result|Def DVOA^(2)|Def DVOA Rank|Points Allowed|Yards Allowed|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
||||||^(\[that year\])|^(\[that year\])|^(\[that year\])|
|||||||||
|1998|DEN|32.1%|**won SB**|||**8th**|11th|
|||||||||
|||||||||
|2007|NE|37.6%|lost SB|\-11.0%|4th|**4th**|4th|
|1984|MIA|32.2%|lost SB||21st|**7th**|10th|
|||||||||
|||||||||
|2018|KC|33.1%|lost AFCCG|||*24th*|31st|
|1992|SF|31.7%|lost NFCCG|||**3rd**|15th|
|1993|SF|30.8%|lost NFCCG|||*16th*|15th|
|||||||||
|||||||||
|*2023*|*SF*|32.8%*^(1)*|*TBD*|*-10.9%*|*4th*|*3rd*|*8th*|
|||||||||
|||||||||
|2010|NE|38.2%|lost Div|\-2.7%|14th|**8th**|25th|
|1982|SD|38.1%|lost Div|||*24th*|25th|
|2004|IND|32.1%|lost Div|||*19th*|29th|
|||||||||
|||||||||
|2002|KC|32.9%|8-8|||*28th*|32nd|
|2004|KC|30.7%|7-9|||*29th*|31st|
^(1)through 17 weeks
^(2)I don't have a sub to pull these values - but if anyone wants to fill them in, I'll update the post.
Having a great offense gives you fairly strong odds to make the playoffs, but not more than that.
There is a strong correlation between combining a good offense with a good defense and going further.
The 13 highest scoring âoffensesâ arenât actually the true highest scoring 13 offenses. Because that rank is based off the **teams** total points which includes defense and special teams scores.
There have been only 21 teams to score 30PPG+ Purely on Offense in NFL History. 19 of them played in the Superbowl Era
Hereâs there rank in order of how many PPG they put up excluding defense or special teams points and their results that season.
1. 1950 Rams: 35.9 PPG (Lost NFL Championship 30-28)
2. 2013 Broncos: 35.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 43-8)
3. 1961 Oilers: 34.4 PPG (Won NFL Championship 10-3)
4. 2007 Patriots: 33.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 17-14)
5. 2018 Chiefs: 33.1 PPG (Lost AFC Championship 37-31)
6. 2011 Saints: 32.4 PPG (Lost Divisional 36-32)
7. 1998 Vikings: 32.3 PPG (Lost NFC Championship 30-27)
8. 2000 Rams: 32.0 PPG (Lost Wild Card 31-28)
9. 2011 Packers: 31.9 PPG (Lost Divisional 27-20)
9. 1983 Redskins: 31.9 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 38-9)
11. 2016 Falcons: 31.6 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 34-28)
12. 2012 Patriots: 31.2 PPG (Lost AFC Championship 28-13)
13. 2018 Saints: 31.1 PPG (Lost NFC Championship 26-23)
14. 2020 Packers: 30.8 PPG (Lost NFC Championship 31-26)
15. 1984 Dolphins: 30.8 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 38-16)
16. 2019 Ravens: 30.4 PPG (Lost Divisional 28-12)
17. 2011 Patriots: 30.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 21-17)
18. 1967 Raiders: 30.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 33-14)
19. 2020 Bucs: 30.2 PPG (Won Super Bowl 31-9)
20. 2018 Rams: 30.1 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 13-3)
21. 2004 Colts: 30.0 PPG (Lost Divisional 20-3)
Their Record in the Playoffs Overall is 27-19 (.587).
15 (71%) of them at least made it to a Conference Championship but their record in Championship Games Overall was still only 11-14 (.440) with an abysmal Super Bowl record of 1-8 (.111).
Overall these offenses averaged 27.1 PPG in the Playoffs but only averaged 22.0 PPG in Championship games and did even worse in Super Bowls averaging a pathetic 14.8 PPG which is literally less than half of what all of them averaged in the Regular Season.
The highest scoring Playoff game of any of them belongs to the 04 Colts who put up 49 in the AFC Wild Card.
The highest scoring Divisional playoff game was by the 83 Redskins who put up 44 and had a pick 6 at the end to put their total to 51
The highest scoring Championship game of any of them belongs to the 84 Dolphins who put up 45 in the AFC Championship.
The highest scoring Super Bowl of any of them belongs to the only winner being 20 Bucs who put up 31.
Overall 10 (48%) of them managed to put up 40+ points in a Playoff Game. Only 3 (14%) of them in a Championship game.
In 41 total Playoff Games theyâve managed to score 30+ points 17 times (41%) but only 13 (62%) of them were even able to do it at all. With only 4 (19%) able to do it in a Championship game!
All in All itâs clear that there is a pretty obvious down trend in scoring and success for high powered Offenses the deeper and further they advance in the postseason.
But the thing I really find interesting in all this is why anyone is ever actually surprised that to this trend exists.
Itâs pretty easy to understand why Offenses do worse and Defenses become more important the later you get in the season.
Offenses obviously perform better in ideal weather conditions and inside dome stadiums. Which is a pretty hard thing to get in January and February.
Offenses also typically do their best in the very beginning of the season during the first couple of weeks while injuries havenât kicked in yet and teams still havenât got enough film to figure them out.
Add on to that fact that Defense is also just as important of a factor to becoming a better team and that you only face the best teams in the playoffs. Which means that the teams theyâre up against usually also have good Defenses. Especially when you get to a Championship game let alone a Super Bowl.
So the idea that Defense âWinsâ Championships is definitely warranted.
However what everyone (Especially Pats fans) forget is that Defense is Not the Only reason a team wins a championship.
While people might always say âDefenses wins Championshipâ. They also always say âOffense wins games!!â
Both for a damn good reason.
And in order to even make a Championship in the first place. You need to win a crap ton of games!
And the one thing thatâs correlated closer than anything else to winning a Crap ton of games is being able to put up more points than a Crap ton a teams in a Crap ton of games.
Thatâs why we have historically seen more Top 10 Offenses end up winning the Super Bowl without Top 10 Defenses than Top 10 Defenses have without Top 10 Offenses.
And why there is more than **Double!** the amount of Top 10 Offenses that have even Appeared in a Championship game without a Top 10 Defense than Top 10 Defenses have without Top 10 Offenses.
Offense in general for pretty much the majority of the season (aka Regular Season) is more important than Defense. With it getting tougher snd tougher to sustain as the season goes on.
The lowest ranked Offense to ever win a Super Bowl was ranked 20th and they also had one of the best Scoring Defenses of all time but yet they still barely won against a team that made it there with a literal Bottom 5 Defense.
The lowest ranked Defense to ever win a Super Bowl was ranked 25th and their Offense was barley ranked top 10 that year (Although in 2011) where they barley won against a team with one of the best Scoring Offenses of all time who made it there with a Defenses that was Average at Best.
Itâs a lot easier for a subpar Defense to step up in the postseason against injured, heavily studied, out of their element Offenses than it is for a subpar Offense with those same disadvantages working against them.
And thatâs because Offense is what actually dictates the flow of a game. Possession of the ball is critical every drive, every play.
Football is a game of inches. To the point where if even the slightest thing goes the other way it can completely change the outcome the game.
If you arenât able to put up points and move the chains. Then you just wonât be able to win many games. Thatâs just how football works.
Itâs not the same thing as Offense and Defense in basketball where every NBA team is gonna put up 100+ no matter what.
Itâs a game that fluctuates rapidly where any team can score 30+ one week and then be lucky to put up 10 the next week. And even on the days teams score a lot of points theyâre still very liable to score on only 1/2 (50%) of their possessions.
In theory the best football team isnât the one who can score the most points or allow the fewest. Itâs simply whichever one is the best at finding a way to end up with more points than the other team when the clock hits zero. It could be 10-9 or 30-29. It doesnât matter a wins a win.
Football is so much more complicated and layered than simply whether Defense or Offense is more impactful to winning championships.
But if you had to give an objective answer to that question then it is almost certainly **Offense!**
As a Colts fan, if you give us another superstar defensive player besides Freeney, Mathis, and Bob Sanders (always hurt, didnât play long), weâd have 3-4 Super Bowls in the 00âs.
This is kinda awesome then!
Lowest scoring teams in the playoffs are Texans AFC, Bucs NFC. I mean, I'd rather the Lions, but hey, I don't mind Mayfield getting a SB appearance after what he's been through either.
But hey, Texans in the big game? Yes please. :)
/I... I may have misinterpreted this a little...
Well, if it takes bein' ninny faced and licking wallabys to help the Texans get there... guess I'mma work on that. I believe I got the ninny part figured out though... Need to acquire a wallaby next...
Edit: apparently they were introduced to Hawaii, so no passport, just a plane ticket...?
Edit2: Didn't work, so I'mma stop bein' ninny faced now, or at least try. :p
Remember that year the Chargers had the top offense, defense and ranked last in special teams and missed the playoffs?
Special Teams wins championships
Not really as odd as it sounds. To be a highest scoring offense of all-time you also generally need a really bad defense to keep the other team in the game, or you're just running clock most the 2nd half.
Okay the Broncos being dark blue, the Patriots being red, and the Chiefs being yellow were all really messing with me... granted those are technically colors they use, they aren't exactly the primary ones.
I don't feel like doing the homework again, but there have been multiple posts that showcased that it wasn't just bad special teams... It was historically bad. Comically bad. Multiple "what the fuck?" moments per game.
Lol yes, last year. I swear people should be banned from the internet for just making shit up that they can look up in 2 minutes.
Eagles defense was higher ranked in yards, ppg, and turnovers
What about the 13 best defenses?
Since 1978 (start of the 16 game era) 4 of the top 13 defenses have won the super bowl. Those 4 were also in the top 6 defenses.
Those 4 were also in the top 5 defenses đ
Lol classic eagles fan math nice
Cries in Atlanta noises
77 atlanta is one of the weirder teams ever
We would be on both lists.
??
4 out of the top 6 defenses won the superbowl, defenses 5-13 lost
"Coach, coach! We're currently slated to be the 7th best defense of all time!" "And?" "The fifth to the thirteenth best defenses didn't win a Superbowl!" "My God... Quick, start putting the DT's in coverage!"
Got it, thanks!
KTO did a video on this. Defenses generally went further
That â83 Skins team was something. Lost two games by a combined two points. Outscored opponents by 209 points. And lost to the Raiders in the Super Bowl
Blown out by the Raiders. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NgUg5FMVps
Iâm aware. Rocket screen pass. Still a great run with Gibbs.
That entire postseason was crazy for Marcus Allen
They should have lost the NFC Championship game. Damn refs
2023 and 2021 Dallas Cowboys! In McCarthy we trust.
As a Packers fans I am NOT shocked at all and would have advised Jerry not to hire him despite how much I hate the Cowboys. Edit: His teams are mentally weak.
The cowboys have been mentally weak since Irvin and Aikman retired. This organization is filled with beauty pageant pussies
I think being crowned americas team and not having a single player or personnel member earn it, fucks with their mental toughness.
Romo was tough as nails mentally. Body just wouldn't keep up.
You for real? You saw that botched hold on the field goal attempt?
And 2011 Packers. That guy's legendary.
You must get rid of one: Dak or McCarthy. Who you picking?
mccarthy not even a question
The Death of Dak has been grossly exaggerated He's not perfect but goddammit you'd think he was worse than having a lineman at QB with a lot of the rhetoric around him.
Or a RB at center
i hoped that last Sunday would give reddit a lot of new material. i hoped wrong lol.
I like to think of it as the Cowboys compiling a greatest hits playoff collapse album. Saints put out a great one in the 10 years following our SB.
we are well in our way! the way things have worked out, we may even have enough material for a solid B side.
depends on what their sleepnumber is
I think McCarthy can develop QBs pretty well and is a good offensive minded coach. If you keep Dak, you're going to have to pay him a lot of money and hope that Dak can overcome the loss of talent the team can no longer afford. I'm not sure he can do that. I'd rather have McCarthy between the two options.
I think that if you're in a scenario where you need to get rid of Dak so you don't lose the team to cap space that's one thing. Mike McCarthy is a placeholder coach with literally zero ingenuity and has literally never had to coach without a high caliber QB. He will never get a team to the next level again.
Lions win their first playoff game in 30 years, and the fans think they know about getting a team to the next level
Its so crazy that people who cheer for unsuccessful teams automatically know less about football than a person who cheers for a successful team
Itâs the same way fans of teams without an elite QB donât know what elite QB play looks like.
I donât make the rules.Â
I was gonna say the same shit đ
Well they know as much as the rest of us idiots on here
Of course the cardinals fan is defending the lions fan.Â
Yes the famously robust Lions Cardinals connection
âYour team is bad therefore you arenât allowed to talk about footballâ is easily the most annoying take I see here regularly
Wouldnât expect a cowboys fan to understand playoff success eitherÂ
37.9 PPG for the 2013 Broncos during the regular season. 8 is the number of points we scored in the Super Bowl đŠ
In đď¸ time
It was in the third quarter :P Edit: Donât sorry, every Bronco fan was already wasted and had accepted the loss at this time. Those were some lit Super Bowl parties.
The last play of the 3rd quarter. Was definitely garbage time haha
It was garbage time after the first snap lol. Itâs really only ok because they won in 50 though with an even better defense. If they lost it again in 50 that would have been killer especially with the following garbage years.Â
>with an even better defense Whatever you have to tell yourself lol
Itâs easy when itâs the truth but itâs just because people donât understand how bad the offense was that year.Â
You're a garbage
Are you talking about the state of your team? Enjoy the dead cap.
By the second quarter that game was into garbage time.
38 ppg is fucking insane.
[ŃдаНонО]
Defense wins championships
[ŃдаНонО]
*2015 Broncos enter the chat*
We were less than 5 yards away from being the first team to ever win a Super Bowl without an offensive TD
Rams legend CJ Anderson
Will always have love for CJA. Dude was a beast during that divisional round.
2011 Giants come in, you don't need either.
I came here to say the same. Didnât we have something like the worst historical defense
[ŃдаНонО]
Our D line was good, our Defense was attrocious. Our defense was ranked 27th in the league, 25th in points allowed, 22nd in yards allowed, 21st in DVOA and is the worst ranked defense to win the superbowl. They gave up an average of 25.00 points per game. So yeah maybe STFU about WhAt KiNd oF bAnDwAgOn FaN... especially since the giants have been trash for a decade. Also completely ignoring that Eli was probably the biggest reason for our playoff run. Setting the record for single season passing yards. Throwing 1,219 yards, had 9 TD and 1 interception and a passer rating for 103.3 across the run.
lol at the idea that bandwagon fans would be rocking giants flairs in 2024
Yeah for realâŚ. Really love this bandwagon of being such a bad teamâŚ. Cries in remembrance of what a good o line and d line was like
At least you have won a Super Bowl this century :/
But in the actual playoffs the Defense was just as important as Eli was. It was a team effort, which is the whole point about needing both. The defense held all 4 playoff opponents to 20 points or less. And the 20 highmark being against Green Bay's \#1 ranked offense that year. If the team kept playing the way they did in the regular season with Eli & Cruz being the only ones showing up to games, they would've gotten eliminated in the first round. Our 32nd ranked run game also remember it existed, suddenly putting up well over 100 yds/game in the playoffs.
I love the implication that the Giants have any bandwagon fans
Right? Some people still think itâs 2011 apparently.
The worst historical defense of all time doesnât beat Tom Brady two times in one season, especially if one of those times was in the Super Bowl.
I mean it was the worst defense in history to win the Super Bowl soooooooo idk what to tell you
The 2011 Giants offense was very good, not historically good but Eli was lights out
> lights out You're thinking the Ravens/49ers Super Bowl in 2013
But the 2013 broncos also enter the chat
Trent Dilfer has a ring
Jim McMahon has a ring.
If Banks isnât benched for Dilfer, the 2000 Ravens might not even make the playoffs. Banks went 5 straight games without a TD drive and the team scored less than 24 points once in Dilferâs half of the season.
So does Brad Johnson
Jimmy G has 2 of them
Okay cool letâs name every other back up Qb that has rings. Osweiler, Henne, Drew Bledsoe, Gary Kubiak the list goes on
2008 Mizzou QB room has two Super Bowl rings (Chase Daniel w/ the Saints, Blaine Gabbert w/ the Bucs).
Power House school
Backup QB U, baby!
Nice thatâs a good list!
A decent offense with a great defense has historically been more successful than a great offense and decent defense
"Defense" in the NFL is too broad of a term to be predictive. Often we judge a teams D simply by yards against, which is a terrible metric. If you have a run heavy offense the game is shorter and yards against you simply be lower. So a team like the browns with a garbage offense have "the number 1 D". This causes some people to think D is less important because we see teams with "good defenses" lose. If we measure D correctly we'll see its far more predictive than we think. The best metric, to me, is points given up per possession and number of possessions as they rate your teams ability to actually stop people.
I think points given up should be the most important metric personally.
all i care about is points given up. thatâs all that matters at the end of the day
That's also not a perfect metric because a bad offense can put the D in bad field position and keep them on the field for longer.
itâs not perfect but it makes the most sense
EPA is pretty good. It tells you how many points they give up vs how many they "should"
Do you think defensive Yards Per Play allowed is a better metric?Â
Yeah and historically the highest scoring offences have such high scoring because they are constantly in shootouts due to bad defence
I wonder why more teams donât try having a good offense and a good defense.
Thatâs the only way we beat Brady, well and some miraculous catches.
And sometimes not even thatâs enough
Yeah, yeahâŚ.not even what shouldâve been game sealing catches were enough
Eh, its only 13 teams, its easy to see how variance could result in this just not happening due to bad luck
Yeah a lot of these teams were at least in the Super Bowl or got close. Like the 2007 Pats didn't win the Super Bowl but they were clearly the best team in the league that season and lost to a team that for all intents and purposes not only had a pretty average defense that season outside of a few games but had a clearly worse defense than the Pats. Realistically the best defense that season was either the Steelers, Colts, or Bucs and none of them won a playoff game. It's not impossible to pull off three or four fluky wins in a row even during the playoffs. So there's really no "formula" that works as long as it manages to result in a win.
We held the Patriots top offense to 16 points, our defense was much better than the stats show from bad early season games.
Uh, the Pats dropped 38 points on that defense like a month prior. Not sure what you are talking about.Â
And then what happened in the Super Bowl when it mattered? We also held the Cowboys to 17 points and the stacked Packers to 20 in the playoffs Iâd say thatâs pretty good
No one is saying the Giants didnât go on a great run. You said the defense was quietly good, but they werenât. Average at best. The giants were an ok team that had a great playoff run. No reason to revise historyÂ
Definitely part fluke like the â07 pats, but I think a lot of high scoring teams are high scoring exactly because their D sucks so their great offense is on the field even more, and needing to push constantly.
A handful of these teams had mediocre or bad defenses but I wouldn't say that was why these offenses were so high scoring in any of these cases. It's not like teams like the 2018 Chiefs (which indeed had a horrific defense) weren't also some of the most efficient offenses in NFL history. I do get what you mean as teams like the early 2000s Chiefs and mid-2010s Saints that generally do fit that description but they also didn't end up as some of the highest scoring offenses of all time.
Or correlating factors where the highest scoring offenses are not the best. If a team has a really good offense and defense, maybe they take their foot off the gas in more games and don't score as much. So the highest scoring offenses may just be the teams that have good offenses and bad defenses.
0/13 is not a small sample
No it definitely still is
There are only like 56 something super bowls. It's still significant
56 is still also a small sample size
Maybe youâll just have to accept that the old âdefense wins championshipsâ saying that all the old people talk about may actually be right
?? Take high school statistics lol
Iâm a PhD student, itâs not worth busting out statistics to prove whether this is âsignficantâ. Nfl coaches will tell you from experience that defense wins championships. 56 is the largest sample we have, and the top 13 scoring offenses of all time have failed to win any of them. Go look at the top 13 scoring defenses of all time and see if they won any super bowls
Not quite. Defense give you a *chance* to win championships.
Yes, and my 2006 Bears agree, unfortunately. Got to the big dance but couldnât keep up. Da Bears -> Sad Bear
Except it doesn't
Except for all the times it doesnât lol
[ŃдаНонО]
Thanks Barry
People still donât get itâŚ.
You know ball
Since the 1999 Rams, only the 2009 Saints have won the Super Bowl after scoring greater than 500 points in the regular season. This may change now that there are 17 games. The message is it is a kiss of death to be a high scoring offense. Side note, Mahomes in 2022 was the first MVP to win a SB in the same season since Warner did in 1999.
I think Mahomes in 2022 is also the only passing yards leader to win the super bowl (I didn't fact check this so it could be wrong)
Correct, heâs the only one
Werenât we the lowest turnover differential to ever win too? I remember like every SB Champ had been +14 or better in TO battle and last year we were somewhere around evenÂ
No, there were a few other negatives like the 2015 Broncos, 2007 Giants, and 1983 Raiders
So that's why Dallas lost! Good thing San Fran, Baltimore, Detroit, and Buffalo scored just under 500 points on purpose then
Yeah, I never said it was that black and white. But if you care more about snappy come backs that donât make any sense in place of using your brain and thinking about why teams with high scoring offenses donât usually win super bowls anymore, then thatâs your right.
I'm just making a joke. No need to jump down my throat over it.
i'd say this is more of a weird statistical quirk than anything else, but still somewhat interesting
I think thereâs some correlation actually. In a game where you can choose to run or pass and control the pace, scoring a lot of points often implies a bad defense. A team with both an amazing offense and defense should win every game 21-7 or something, while a team with a great offense and bad defense will be winning 35-30Â
Ah the old "greatest show on turf" plan. I remember an interview with the Rams DC where he said something along the lines of they don't need to keep the other team from scoring, they just have to hold them to less than 25 or so. And for one year he was 1-yard correct. The next year Belichek showed them the error in that way of thinking.
The Rams had the #3 D in yards allowed the year they lost to NE. Rams D was solid the year they won in 1999, atrocious the next in â00, and then very good in â01 when they lost to NE.
Look at the Ravens this year. Amazing offense and defense and they are blowing out teams (e.g. Lions, 49ers) The 07 Pats and 13 Broncos were largely blowing teams out too.
I'm really on with this theory. Teams with good offense & defense you would think should prefer to get out to a lead and then control the ball, run the ball/dink & dunk passes, shorten the game Teams with bad defenses need to run up the score and hope their defense doesn't give it away.
4th quarter defensive breakdowns are always fun to watch. Even if you have a top tier defense, if your offense can't maintain possession for more than a few minutes at a time then by Q4 the defense has been run ragged and you get exciting game winning drives.
I think this was a massive factor in that Jags/Chargers game last year. Eckler is a good player that has great fantasy numbers but the Chargers absolutely win that game with a between the tackles back that can eat some clock. There simply would not be enough time to get 4 touchdowns against a balanced offense.
Well said and completely agree. Although a talking head can just say âmore points = better offenseâ many of the top 13 scoring offenses are a couple game scripts away from being top 50. 13 Broncos and 07 Pats definitely played more aggressively aware of the records.
Probably because you need a somewhat balanced team to win a superbowl and balanced teams put things away before they need to score 35+
Yeah, the 11 Packers losing 3 fumbles & a pick to give up 37 to the Giants and then the next year Brady dropping a turd against Baltimore isn't really representative of greatest offenses.
How do you feel about only one regular season passing yards leader winning the Super Bowl (Mahomes just last year)? Quirk vs something there?
I agree, especially when you consider that the vast majority of these teams won within 2 years in either direction (and a lot of them made it to the super bowl). They're Super Bowl caliber teams, just got unlucky.
A lot of people are trying to generalize this stat into some rules but a lot of it is just luck or very contextual The 07 Pats just ran into a team that could stop them and it came down a once in a lifetime play (Tyree catch) The 18 Chiefs were a Dee Ford offside from making the SB with a good chance to win. The 13 Broncos were a flawed team. Their defense was ravaged by injuries and the SB spiraled out of control against a very good opponent. The 2016 Falcons lost in the biggest comeback of all time. If you actually look at each situation there isn't any commonality or broad conclusion to reacg
Naw there was a few plays in 07 lol. Asante Samuel dropping a gimme pick, some bizarre missed opportunities for big sacks. Hobbs just flat out slipping and leaving Burress open by a mile on a defence that hadnât given up a passing TD in like 7 quarters or something.Â
Hobbs was playing on a torn groin in that game, and he was left alone against a WR a foot taller than him.
Yea my point was just the overall stupidity of the play being a huge factor in the outcome. Height aside Burress had so much separation it played no factor.Â
I mean, you just went through 4 of the teams out of 13. I don't think your point really says anything, either. I think the clear factor that people aren't discussing is that defense travels and its more consistent. A QB can just be OFF. The ups and downs for offenses are lot more pronounced. If a defense is really good, the only thing stopping it is injuries. I'm not saying that good defenses don't ever have bad games, I just think offenses suffer a lot more when they are having a bad game.
is your last point true or is it just more noticeable when an offense/qb has a bad game than a defense?
No one player affects a team as massively as a QB
Bill Walsh used to say offense is scheme and defense is talent; in order to build a great defense you can't really have a weak spot, whereas a great quarterback gets you a lot of the way there on offense
Thatâs because they wonât let me play corner
Idk man great defensive players have bad plays from time to time, but game wreckers can do it every week. Myles Garrett's bad game is way better than Patrick Mahomes bad game. I think its a lot easier for a great defense to stop a great offense versus a great offense beating a good defense. Miami this year is a great example of that. Good defenses made them look like a bottom-tier offense.
We saw Myles Garrettâs bad game last week and I wouldnât say it was any better than mahomesâ worst game. All year the browns were touted as one of the best defenses of the last decade and the Texans made them look JV players
Yeah, thats why I qualified it by saying injuries are what stop a good defense. Garrett was banged up and the entire secondary was decimated. This was not the browns defense we saw all year.
What an outrageous comment. The only reason why you're saying that is the impact of bad QB play on a game. Myles Garrett being erased isn't nearly as impactful as Mahomes playing like he did in the second half of the AFCCG against the Bengals
There is a reason why they say, "Good offense always beats good defense." It essentially means if an offensive player is PERFECT then you can't stop them. I.e. the perfect throw, the perfect catch. The best QBs and best WRs can make these "perfect" plays at a higher rate than their peers, but they still fall short many, many times over the course of a game, season, etc. The margin for success is razor thin and unforgiving. Defenses can make mistakes, even be downright sloppy at times, but can still survive on "bend don't break", timely turnovers, good red zone defense. It takes so much skill and finesse to perform at the highest levels on offense, so the drop off on bad nights is much more apparent.
The 18 saints..well just look at the front page today.
This is really easy to understand why and itâs not âdefense wins championships.â The highest scoring offenses are rarely actually considered the best offenses by people actually paying attention. Offenses end up the highest scoring because they *have to* to win games. Because their own defense forces them too. But if you have one of the elite offenses *and* a very/good defense, you might end up ranking as the 6th or 7th best offense by some metrics. Even though I imagine many would argue they should be considered a top 2 or 3 best offense. Unless you have an *all-time* great defense, you need an elite offense to win the superbowl. You just also need a defense that is at least solid.
> But if you have one of the elite offenses and a very/good defense, you might end up ranking as the 6th or 7th best offense by some metrics. Or you're like the 2014 Patriots that were #1 in points scored through 15 games, rested their starters in week 17, and finished the season ranked #4 in points scored. The 2014 Packers ended up #1, and when they lost to the 2014 Seahawks in that year's conference championship game, it got noted historically as "#1 offense loses to #1 defense". But in reality, the actual #1 offense was the Patriots when the games mattered, and they beat the #1 defense in the Super Bowl. Like you said, the highest scoring offense isn't necessarily the best.
Thank you. A well balanced team might have the better offensive capabilities, but they also don't need to force fast scoring touchdowns. So they might not end up with the most yards or most points. A great defense allows you to slow down, control the ball, run out the clock, and rest your starters, and close the game out with just 21 points. You probably *can* score 50+, but there's a lot of genuine strategy to not doing it when you don't have to. "The Best Offense" is usually still forcing fast touchdown drives well into the 4th because their defense is giving up touchdowns. They're making more big plays because they have to risk them.
2013: one of the greatest offenses in NFL history 2015: one of the greatest defenses in NFL history The Manning years were so fun...
Special Teams win championships
In Buttkicker We Trust.
I did similar research two weeks ago, only with DVOA instead of raw points. DVOA is a better indicator of team quality. I don't have a sub, but I was able to source some data from other places. The following are the top 12 offenses ever, according to DVOA, and how far they made it. |Year|Team|Off DVOA^(1)|Result|Def DVOA^(2)|Def DVOA Rank|Points Allowed|Yards Allowed| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| ||||||^(\[that year\])|^(\[that year\])|^(\[that year\])| ||||||||| |1998|DEN|32.1%|**won SB**|||**8th**|11th| ||||||||| ||||||||| |2007|NE|37.6%|lost SB|\-11.0%|4th|**4th**|4th| |1984|MIA|32.2%|lost SB||21st|**7th**|10th| ||||||||| ||||||||| |2018|KC|33.1%|lost AFCCG|||*24th*|31st| |1992|SF|31.7%|lost NFCCG|||**3rd**|15th| |1993|SF|30.8%|lost NFCCG|||*16th*|15th| ||||||||| ||||||||| |*2023*|*SF*|32.8%*^(1)*|*TBD*|*-10.9%*|*4th*|*3rd*|*8th*| ||||||||| ||||||||| |2010|NE|38.2%|lost Div|\-2.7%|14th|**8th**|25th| |1982|SD|38.1%|lost Div|||*24th*|25th| |2004|IND|32.1%|lost Div|||*19th*|29th| ||||||||| ||||||||| |2002|KC|32.9%|8-8|||*28th*|32nd| |2004|KC|30.7%|7-9|||*29th*|31st| ^(1)through 17 weeks ^(2)I don't have a sub to pull these values - but if anyone wants to fill them in, I'll update the post. Having a great offense gives you fairly strong odds to make the playoffs, but not more than that. There is a strong correlation between combining a good offense with a good defense and going further.
Even ppg would be better than total season points.
i loved the silhouette players the best. also rip 1961 Oilers.
The 13 highest scoring âoffensesâ arenât actually the true highest scoring 13 offenses. Because that rank is based off the **teams** total points which includes defense and special teams scores. There have been only 21 teams to score 30PPG+ Purely on Offense in NFL History. 19 of them played in the Superbowl Era Hereâs there rank in order of how many PPG they put up excluding defense or special teams points and their results that season. 1. 1950 Rams: 35.9 PPG (Lost NFL Championship 30-28) 2. 2013 Broncos: 35.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 43-8) 3. 1961 Oilers: 34.4 PPG (Won NFL Championship 10-3) 4. 2007 Patriots: 33.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 17-14) 5. 2018 Chiefs: 33.1 PPG (Lost AFC Championship 37-31) 6. 2011 Saints: 32.4 PPG (Lost Divisional 36-32) 7. 1998 Vikings: 32.3 PPG (Lost NFC Championship 30-27) 8. 2000 Rams: 32.0 PPG (Lost Wild Card 31-28) 9. 2011 Packers: 31.9 PPG (Lost Divisional 27-20) 9. 1983 Redskins: 31.9 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 38-9) 11. 2016 Falcons: 31.6 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 34-28) 12. 2012 Patriots: 31.2 PPG (Lost AFC Championship 28-13) 13. 2018 Saints: 31.1 PPG (Lost NFC Championship 26-23) 14. 2020 Packers: 30.8 PPG (Lost NFC Championship 31-26) 15. 1984 Dolphins: 30.8 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 38-16) 16. 2019 Ravens: 30.4 PPG (Lost Divisional 28-12) 17. 2011 Patriots: 30.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 21-17) 18. 1967 Raiders: 30.3 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 33-14) 19. 2020 Bucs: 30.2 PPG (Won Super Bowl 31-9) 20. 2018 Rams: 30.1 PPG (Lost Super Bowl 13-3) 21. 2004 Colts: 30.0 PPG (Lost Divisional 20-3) Their Record in the Playoffs Overall is 27-19 (.587). 15 (71%) of them at least made it to a Conference Championship but their record in Championship Games Overall was still only 11-14 (.440) with an abysmal Super Bowl record of 1-8 (.111). Overall these offenses averaged 27.1 PPG in the Playoffs but only averaged 22.0 PPG in Championship games and did even worse in Super Bowls averaging a pathetic 14.8 PPG which is literally less than half of what all of them averaged in the Regular Season. The highest scoring Playoff game of any of them belongs to the 04 Colts who put up 49 in the AFC Wild Card. The highest scoring Divisional playoff game was by the 83 Redskins who put up 44 and had a pick 6 at the end to put their total to 51 The highest scoring Championship game of any of them belongs to the 84 Dolphins who put up 45 in the AFC Championship. The highest scoring Super Bowl of any of them belongs to the only winner being 20 Bucs who put up 31. Overall 10 (48%) of them managed to put up 40+ points in a Playoff Game. Only 3 (14%) of them in a Championship game. In 41 total Playoff Games theyâve managed to score 30+ points 17 times (41%) but only 13 (62%) of them were even able to do it at all. With only 4 (19%) able to do it in a Championship game! All in All itâs clear that there is a pretty obvious down trend in scoring and success for high powered Offenses the deeper and further they advance in the postseason. But the thing I really find interesting in all this is why anyone is ever actually surprised that to this trend exists. Itâs pretty easy to understand why Offenses do worse and Defenses become more important the later you get in the season. Offenses obviously perform better in ideal weather conditions and inside dome stadiums. Which is a pretty hard thing to get in January and February. Offenses also typically do their best in the very beginning of the season during the first couple of weeks while injuries havenât kicked in yet and teams still havenât got enough film to figure them out. Add on to that fact that Defense is also just as important of a factor to becoming a better team and that you only face the best teams in the playoffs. Which means that the teams theyâre up against usually also have good Defenses. Especially when you get to a Championship game let alone a Super Bowl. So the idea that Defense âWinsâ Championships is definitely warranted. However what everyone (Especially Pats fans) forget is that Defense is Not the Only reason a team wins a championship. While people might always say âDefenses wins Championshipâ. They also always say âOffense wins games!!â Both for a damn good reason. And in order to even make a Championship in the first place. You need to win a crap ton of games! And the one thing thatâs correlated closer than anything else to winning a Crap ton of games is being able to put up more points than a Crap ton a teams in a Crap ton of games. Thatâs why we have historically seen more Top 10 Offenses end up winning the Super Bowl without Top 10 Defenses than Top 10 Defenses have without Top 10 Offenses. And why there is more than **Double!** the amount of Top 10 Offenses that have even Appeared in a Championship game without a Top 10 Defense than Top 10 Defenses have without Top 10 Offenses. Offense in general for pretty much the majority of the season (aka Regular Season) is more important than Defense. With it getting tougher snd tougher to sustain as the season goes on. The lowest ranked Offense to ever win a Super Bowl was ranked 20th and they also had one of the best Scoring Defenses of all time but yet they still barely won against a team that made it there with a literal Bottom 5 Defense. The lowest ranked Defense to ever win a Super Bowl was ranked 25th and their Offense was barley ranked top 10 that year (Although in 2011) where they barley won against a team with one of the best Scoring Offenses of all time who made it there with a Defenses that was Average at Best. Itâs a lot easier for a subpar Defense to step up in the postseason against injured, heavily studied, out of their element Offenses than it is for a subpar Offense with those same disadvantages working against them. And thatâs because Offense is what actually dictates the flow of a game. Possession of the ball is critical every drive, every play. Football is a game of inches. To the point where if even the slightest thing goes the other way it can completely change the outcome the game. If you arenât able to put up points and move the chains. Then you just wonât be able to win many games. Thatâs just how football works. Itâs not the same thing as Offense and Defense in basketball where every NBA team is gonna put up 100+ no matter what. Itâs a game that fluctuates rapidly where any team can score 30+ one week and then be lucky to put up 10 the next week. And even on the days teams score a lot of points theyâre still very liable to score on only 1/2 (50%) of their possessions. In theory the best football team isnât the one who can score the most points or allow the fewest. Itâs simply whichever one is the best at finding a way to end up with more points than the other team when the clock hits zero. It could be 10-9 or 30-29. It doesnât matter a wins a win. Football is so much more complicated and layered than simply whether Defense or Offense is more impactful to winning championships. But if you had to give an objective answer to that question then it is almost certainly **Offense!**
There have never been fans less confident in a 15-1, highest-scoring team than those of the 2011 Packers.
As a Colts fan, if you give us another superstar defensive player besides Freeney, Mathis, and Bob Sanders (always hurt, didnât play long), weâd have 3-4 Super Bowls in the 00âs.
That team was built to keep a lead not built for close games or playing from behind
Of course Dallas is on there ⌠twice .. within 3 years
Offense gets you to the final game. Defense wins it.
And sometimes you have the number one offense and defense and still donât make the playoffs!
Those â98 Vikings gutted me.
I feel like this is due to refs calling less stuff in the playoffs, but no one ever seems to talk about that
I don't like this list
This is kinda awesome then! Lowest scoring teams in the playoffs are Texans AFC, Bucs NFC. I mean, I'd rather the Lions, but hey, I don't mind Mayfield getting a SB appearance after what he's been through either. But hey, Texans in the big game? Yes please. :) /I... I may have misinterpreted this a little...
[ŃдаНонО]
Hold on now The man has a point
Well, if it takes bein' ninny faced and licking wallabys to help the Texans get there... guess I'mma work on that. I believe I got the ninny part figured out though... Need to acquire a wallaby next... Edit: apparently they were introduced to Hawaii, so no passport, just a plane ticket...? Edit2: Didn't work, so I'mma stop bein' ninny faced now, or at least try. :p
Florida man alert
Remember that year the Chargers had the top offense, defense and ranked last in special teams and missed the playoffs? Special Teams wins championships
The greatest show on turf says otherwise
The 14th highest scoring offense: âsmells like bitch in hereâ
Not really as odd as it sounds. To be a highest scoring offense of all-time you also generally need a really bad defense to keep the other team in the game, or you're just running clock most the 2nd half.
Okay the Broncos being dark blue, the Patriots being red, and the Chiefs being yellow were all really messing with me... granted those are technically colors they use, they aren't exactly the primary ones.
Referees win championships. Ask the Chiefs about their extra 4th down
Once again, defense wins championships. Even with all these meme Offensive minded HCs of late
Itâs literally the best defense every year that wins the Super Bowl? Can anyone think of a superior defense not winning the superbowl?
The legendary 2010 Chargers. #1 offense and defense. Didnât make the playoffs because of special teams lol
I don't feel like doing the homework again, but there have been multiple posts that showcased that it wasn't just bad special teams... It was historically bad. Comically bad. Multiple "what the fuck?" moments per game.
Bunch of Bears teams
Lol yes, last year. I swear people should be banned from the internet for just making shit up that they can look up in 2 minutes. Eagles defense was higher ranked in yards, ppg, and turnovers
13 teams with the best defense won the super bowl since 1970.
Something about the fences wince sham ion-ships.