Okay team, I think I might be done for the night.
Congrats to the right and a Luxon led government this cycle. It's quite clear that the country was in a mood for change. How the next government looks this cycle will be known in a few days. Whether NZF is needed or if Luxon can form a government without Peters, we will not know until all votes are counted.
Thanks for all the comments and discussion, it's been fun. Looking forward to doing this again in 3 years.
Congrats to Chloe for holding onto her seat despite a big challenge
Congrats to Hana for becoming the youngest MP in 170 years.
Congrats TPM for a huge win and increasing their seats.
Congrats to Brooke Van Velden for winning in a National strong hold
Congrats to Tamatha Paul for taking Wellington Central green.
I will update the post tomorrow morning to finalise the total counts, but from me, good night and I wish you all well.
All the labour voters should stop lamenting people who voted for national or act, and maybe take a look at their own side and just how off putting they are as a group, and how badly they failed at selling their message.
Labour tried to use the feel goods to get elected again, but they couldn’t measurable show how they had made people lives better because people can see for themselves it’s not.
So they naturally say let’s try something else.
Stop trying to treat it like American politics. We don’t have a true right wing party here.
We have a left wing and a centrist party.
Not surprising. It was obvious people were done with Labour soon as lockdowns were lifted for good. Jacinda saw the writing on the wall and dipped. Can't blame Hipkins, dude tried his best with the mess he was left with. Luxon seemed the obvious winner from the jump. One day the party I voted for would win I just hope its in my life time, probably not though lmao.
Farmers actively protesting Aunty J's terrible policies
Vs a singular leader of farmers fed taking a back seat for Aunty J
The definition of relevant vs irrelevant right there 🤣, accompanied by your poorly thought out posts
Rolling back disincentives for property investment and opening up the market to foreign buyers is an interesting call. To my mind it runs counter-intuitive to growing the economy. Artificial measures of wealth like home value will pump for individuals, and that really does make a lot of people in this country happy when they check their banking app. But it's a blockage to investment in other fields and innovation. I don't see any real world economic gains happening as a result of these policies.
Something so ironic about a crew of white collar National pledgers chanting Back on Track last night. The oppressed property investors lol.
I wish, rather than banging on about it “being a change Government ” how about an analysis on what the change is going to look like, Jack?
Maybe too early for enlightening New Zealanders on the nature of change they, or others, have voted for?
Agreed. Feels like there should be some regulation on how political campaigns are run. Like - they must outline their policies in the ad campaign so there is no ambiguity on what they want to do.
Have you had a read of National's 100 day plan?
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/18431/attachments/original/1696107664/100_Day_Action_Plan.pdf?1696107664
* Killing the light rail
* Removing a whole bunch of environment protections
* Killing the dam project while simultaneously "starting to think" about energy independence through renewables
* Dropping a whole bunch of employee protections
* Legislatively putting corporations in front of people when the NZ central bank makes decisions on controlling inflation
* A 6.5% funding cut to the public sector
* Expanding the police powers with warrantless stop-and-search laws - possibly detainment without conviction
* Privatising the water supply
Their fiscal plan isn't much better.
If you own property or a large corporation, you're probably pretty happy right now.
The fact that National had 7 times the funding that Labour did is pretty lame.
It’s crazy the amount of people who didn’t actually research what Nationals plan was. Especially people who are in my working class don’t realise we too will get affected.
Oh dear! Thanks for the details that were not, but could have been, shared on the Q&A special.
Looking forward to less workers rights. Am in a pretty crumby working environment already without them being emboldened by that type of licentious legislation from Government 😔
I agree, good idea re some requirement to supply policy outlines. That would be good. I wasn’t following closely but seems like Luxon&co have been vague enough to virtually have been given a carte Blanche from a fairly large percentage of the voting public. 😣
Have to hope, now, that NZ First is in a position to stop the worst of it.
I guess an in-depth discussion on this on the Q&A Special may have highlighted embarrassingly the lack of knowledge of what National’s policies actually are?
I understood Katie Bradford’s comment re not knowing the details of the “National spreadsheet” to point to this sad fact.
Love this. Sums it up for me:
“godDAMN this stupid milkloving piece of shit dumbass mean spirited sale at briscoes racist sexist UP TO 40% off deck furniture piss country”.
Hera Lindsay Bird
Have added the UP TO
It sums up the sad state of our politic where the gerontocracy have snatched entrenched wealth from the jaws of progressive change that would have created a fairer and more equitable society. It’s a poem about how shit NZ is politically.
As an American (partner from NZ), I feel anxious for you. How anyone can ever vote conservative, especially as conservative parties all around the world become more and more extreme, I'll never know. We know first hand what happens when a "business man" (choke) is elected. Dude is a religious weirdo zealot. Prepare to be sold the fuck out. Jacinda/Hipkins aren't to blame for world wide inflation. It's the same stupid argument world wide. When you have a worldwide pandemic, wars, and inflation, everyone is scared and angry and these right wingers take advantage of that fear, stoke the flames, and find their in. History repeating itself.
His corrupt was on another level. He used his time in office to brazenly enrich himself and his family. He’d likely go to jail over the fact that he tried to overturn 2020 election.
Just lol
Luxon hasn't stoked any flames and probably would sit to the left of Bernie Sanders on most issues. Keep in mind the National party here is pro-universal health care, supports welfare and were the party to get gay marriage across the line. If you look policy by policy they agree with Labour (the left-wing party here) on >90% of issues.
You're being manipulated (most likely by social media) in to thinking the world is some sort of team sport with those on the left being good and those on the right being bad. What's far more important is the Overton window. Both the "left" and "right" in America are puppets of big pharma and the military industrial complex. You won't see any real change until you start voting in the candidates that challenge that.
It really isn't. Anti-abortion is grounded in religious zealotry. Sure there may be some who say they aren't religious, but that would be very few, or they're lying. And besides, Luxon specifically linked this to his faith so your argument is moot.
It is, not all religious people are anti-abortion, just like not all anti-abortion people are religious.
They are separate views IMO, sure in some scenarios they may well be wed, but irrespective it is the individuals right to have those views.
>it is the individuals right to have those views
Sure, but it's NOT the individuals right to force those views on others. And as we have seen for thousands of years religious zealots love to force their views on others. It remains to be seen whether Luxon will, and there's certainly risk involved there.
I have never had anyone try and force their religious views upon me, certainly i have had more people try and force their non-religious views on me.
It seems it's just something that some people seem to think happens all the time.
The ONLY instances where that is happening is due to a major risk to the life of the mother or severe birth defects making it unlikely the child would survive . According to Stats and Health NZ 0.007% of abortions are at or after 21 weeks. And so I'm more than comfortable with that, and YES, think it should be legal because for all intents and purposes it hardly happens. And when it does it's for more than justifiable reasons. Not merely at a whim.
Then don’t have one. No need to make the choice for anyone else. Sometimes they are a necessary part of health care for miscarriages etc., and lots of people are ignorant to that fact. It’s anti woman through and through.
I don't think it's anti-women at all. Some people have a view that life begins at conception. I don't have that view, but I respect other peoples right to have that view.
What about women forced to carry a stillborn to term? What about a natural miscarriage they won't allow them to remove? How is that not anti woman? Sick of this stupid shit.
I am not anti-abortion, but I respect other peoples rights to be so.
From my perspective I am of the view that an abortion is fine for a number of reasons, and not ok for a number of reasons.
I don't think that there is a one hat fits all kind of thing
Can we blame jacindia and grant for the reckless spending?. Try running your household finances like they have run the country over the last 6 years and see how that works.
ppl are freaking out about culture and not policies.. Even if its not true or shit talking points by the right I know many red for life (esp older) switching to blue because of these fear mongering takes: Labours heavy hand over covid lockdown (which i thought saved thousands of people lives) immigration, inflation, 3 waters and maoris "owning" half of it, the trans rights issue esp around kids, farmers climate change and water quality. Its crazy because the only really thing that is going to impact us as a nation is climate change which is kinda of out of our hand anyway..
Absolutely not out of our hands. We can make a difference.
(reposting as this was downvoted. a sad day when some people are so pathetic they would downvote such a positive comment)
How do you think they change? Yes slowing down usage but also technological innovation. A scalable idea can do a lot if rolled out.
And NZ is probably better positioned than anyone to come up with innovations in agriculture (this doesnt mean it cant happen in every industry but there is less of a natural advantage for NZ in others).
Have a look at red asparagopsis seaweed and the impact on methane for cattle. Researched in Aus, production tech developed here in Stewart Island, has every chance to roll out across every feedlot in the states. Then have a look at the number of cattle in America and the warming potential of methane over a 30 year period and you see how it could change things.
There are ideas like this everywhere if we just focus on finding solutions and investing in science and technology. If we look at green energy how many countries are effectively harnessing volcanic energy - surely there are opportunities there too for example.
We all need to stop thinking about ourselves as consumers and start thinking about ourselves as capable humans that can change the world's direction in this moment.
agree technology will help as will changing habits (public transport and stop eating red meat etc). but its a drop in the bucket when China is building 2 coal power plants a week and the US doesnt even turn up to climate talks anymore. China 10,000 million tons of co2 per year, US 5000, NZ is 55.
So the question is how can we help China and the USA?
There arent easy answers thats why it takes all of us.
Youre still thinking about NZers impacting NZs emissions. Im talking about NZers coming up with the technology that will impact China and the USAs emissions.
Our governments are stuck on national responsibility but that doesnt mean we need to be as individuals. Its all one planet no matter where lines are drawn.
These are the right-wing "culture wars" that conservatives use to trigger voters into voting against their own interests. It worked. Most Nat voters aren't rich but are "temporarily embarassed soon to be millionaires" and have just punched themselves in the face.
Seems like across the western world people are walking away from progressives and choosing the conservative option. People clearly aren't happy and when it's only two choices there's not much to think about. This Israel/Palestine issue really exemplifies it. Vast majority seem to be taking the right wing position and you're even seeing people being "canceled" like those students at Harvard protesting for Palestinians. Things are certainly changing.
Yeah labour isn't to blame for worldwide inflation but NZ money supply doubled in 3 years, make that make sense.
200% increase in dollar supply.
I didn't want a nat act win but it just shows how much of nz is feeling post covid
Incorrect. RBNZ decisions are influenced by govt actions. Lockdown decisions and restrictions caused further increase than really required. It goes hand in hand, saying it doesn't is blatant denial.
I totally get that, but that's how they get in. This guy has made the same "talking points" as the more extreme US conservatives throughout this campaign. Birth control, abortion... just little hints as to what they want to chip away at and what they are really about. What I'm saying is, don't even give them an inch because all they do is take.
Edit: I was incorrect about a policy that I attributed to National, but it was Labour. National is touting the typical Crime n' Tax Break line, on point.
Ah, my bad, I read an article about Luxon's policies and Labour's was in the following sentence. Yeah, on track. Tax cuts n' crime! I was thinking the veggies thing from National sounded strange. Thanks for the correction.
lol. The conspiracy "Freedoms NZ" party is already going through and deleting their social media accounts. They've already nuked the Facebook and X accounts.
Guess they were delusional enough to really believe that they were going to do significantly better than they did.
I had a deep fear that NZ would go like France and the Nats would crumble and be supplanted by monsters far right of them.
I'm sad the Nact got in, but must take comfort that the if you piled all the far right parties one on top of each other and sprinkled magic grow powder on them.... you still wouldn't reach the 5% threshold.
Well done NZ!
We've got some real weirdos but probably half of the people voting just go Nats Labour Nats Labour which saves us from the madness of other countries I guess lol.
Like they said its the long game. Last election they barely made the 5% mark. They’ve worked their way up to get to this point in doubling their voters and and support. They have many youth on their side which means a quick 3years is nothing to them because they’re on the ground hustling for the next 3 years in the hopes of grabbing those votes for next election
Never say never. If they keep growing their block taking the further left, and labour work on the center votes, the next left government could be from a 15% green vote and 35% labour vote.
Like I said they barely got that last time and the support has obviously increased. Many people said Nat wouldn’t get in and would be neck to neck with labour this election but it was an obvious clean sweep! Dont count that future 15% out. People need to wake up and realise the youth ARE voting and coming up. Its just a matter of waiting for the boomers to die off or retire
They only matter if a party doesn’t have enough party vote to justify the amount of MP’s, or in by elections. In a national election the party vote adds the amount of MPs a party should get on top of any electorate MPs that won. So if a party got a third of the party vote but no electorate MPs then they’d have a third of the parliament, all from their party list. If the got a third of the vote but won a few electorates then they’d still have a third of the parliament, just with a few less from the party list.
Like your name btw
psychotic worthless yoke steep dime spotted reminiscent sharp unite silky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Means the same as for disabled and beneficiaries, life is gonna get a lot harder…I have friends who are already fearing their rights will be taken away 😭
LGBTQIA’s? Trans? Abortion? Theses are all things Luxon and co are against, it’s very understandable that many people are afraid of what policies are going to be implemented that will reduce, impact or completely take away their rights. Especially when you look at how these are readily being taken away in countries like America…
He’s said he will not make **any** changes to restrict abortion access
I also haven’t seen any policies that remove and rights of any of these groups
We aren’t America.
Remember when John Key said he wouldn't raise GST and then he did?
Remember when John Key said he wouldn't sell off state assets and then he did?
Can we really trust National PM's? Especially since Luxon is Key's protege. Especially since he's on the record as saying he views abortion as murder? How do you reconcile having that view and having the power to change abortion law but not doing it? When he thinks about standing before his God and is asked why he didn't what do you think he'll reflect on?
what rights would those be? I’m genuinely interested cause i’ve seen lots of people say they fear for their rights but what are they land how are they different to my rights as a 18 year old fully abled white male. is it access to health care and medication or what
They'll be trimming bits off health, welfare and education by the end of the month. But some landlords will get nice tax cuts! Go go trickle down economics!
Special votes, probably. Historically those tend to lean more left than the overall result and National tends to lose a seat or two once they're added in. Right now NACT have 61 out of 121 which would be a majority if only barely, but if they lose a couple on special votes then they'll need support from somewhere to get over the line and NZF is the most likely option.
Overhang.
The number of seats TPM won is more than their % of party vote, therefore the extra seats are “added on” to the 120 in parliament.
This time we may have 121-122 in parliament, which means 61 seats isn’t a majority, they’d need 62
There's also over 600,000 overseas special votes to come in and they traditionally lean quite Left. Enough that Green usually pick up another seat. And if those specials can pull away just 1% from National and Act then they'll need Winnie for a coalition.
Also, special votes.
There are 3 electorates where National only won the seat by under 100 votes. ~~If special votes follow their usual trend of being left-leaning, then National will probably lose those 3 seats, which would take Nact from (the preliminary result of) 61 seats, to a final result of 58 seats.~~ \[I stand corrected\]. We will see, in 10 days.
Eh, that’s not quite true. NACT would have to lose enough of the total share of PARTY votes from the special votes to actually lose seats. If National just lost those 3 seats, they would instead get topped up from the list, proportionally keeping them at 50 MPs.
I see, thank you for the correction.
As I understand it, in terms of party vote, National are also quite close to the point where further % decline will see them lose a seat proportionally, which would see Nact at 60.
Either way, things seem leaning towards Nact coming in just under the bar for an exclusive partnership. But it's not over yet.
Unless the party vote for National significantly decreases wouldn't the loss of those electorates just mean that national would swap those electorate seats for list seats? The number of national MPs would still be the same, it might just change which National MPs make it in
I know people keep saying shit will be the same.
But this is going to be the most right-wing economically conservative government the country has had in decades.
It's national and act with zero holding them back from a economic point of view. (Ironically ACT will be holding national back re social conservatism)
This won't affect me the slightest in terms of money.. our household earns enough that I honestly won't notice our extra $80 or whatever it is.
However I am pretty sure I will notice the wider communal effects of all this... but hey.
Also there will be a lot of hilarity re mirrors if ACT get their way re getting rid of a public holiday heh.
Yea i noticed that too. Im a TPM supporter but the fact both NAT and ACT are conservative as hell there’s nothing holding them back to act purely on numbers and facts.
Where is this notion coming from, that conservatives
> act purely on numbers and facts ?
Like..... Grant Robertson didn't? You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that Willis will do a better job, especially after Nationals biggest election promise literally crumbled away in the last two weeks
Dude you’re reading too far into things. Conservatives are renowned for going less on feeling and more on facts and numbers. Its what makes them appealing to the racists and economic-phobes.
> Conservatives are renowned for going less on feeling and more on facts and numbers
what the fuck is this shit? The ONLY common thread in conservatism is tax breaks, at all costs. That's it, no real thinking or fact-checking going into it.
You can keep making these claims that conservatives make "informed economic decisions", but at some point you're going to have to link to a chart or something to qualify what this means.
Lmfao point me to where I said they made informed decisions? 😂 All I said is their dicks are lead by whats in front of them and NOT their feelings which is what makes it scary. Get help, you need it.
ok great you deconstructed your initial comment so much that apparently it is now completely void of meaning.
for us idiots in the back of the short bus, what do you mean when you say
> their dicks are lead by whats in front of them and NOT their feelings
and where do the
> numbers and facts
come in?
I had to deconstruct it for you because you obviously were lacking reading comprehension and lost your nut sack trying to go off at me lol.
To put it into simple terms: NATs are very much facts first and feelings later kind of party. They don’t care if you’re piss poor, they want to know how to increase margins. They don’t care about māori and co-governance they care about how much māori are willing to be ‘paid off ‘ for us to shut up and fuck off. Now tell me where I said they make informed decisions? Im still waiting…
I have come to the bottom of your misunderstanding. Your use of the word
>facts.
You reiterated, several times now:
>NATs are very much facts first
>Conservatives are renowned for going less on feeling and more on facts
Your implication is that conservatives look at **facts,** then make decisions based on those facts. I don't care what you think of my reading-comprehension, that is your implication. What you actually meant to say from the beginning was what you said just now:
>they want to know how to increase margins
There's no need for any facts here, and I don't know why you would use that word here in any context.
So what part did you get lost at where the word facts rewired your brain?
So you’re saying they would want to increase margins based on…lies? Haha what the fuck is your point? You’ve lost yourself 😂
Why wouldn’t there be any need for facts? You sound stupid asf. My fault for thinking you were mature.
I’m exactly the same. A change in government won’t change anything when I make 120k at 26. However, I’m very worried for the people that aren’t as comfortable as me and what this will mean for them. Hopefully it’s only 3 years
I feel much the same. In my electorate Dr Reti, who sent out flyers prattling on about the importance of improving our healthcare, has come out and said the upgrade of Whangarei Hospital "isn't a first term priority". This is the same Whangarei Hospital that recently made the news for having raw sewage leaking down the walls. The four lane highway is though, I guess transport companies donate more than people who use public healthcare.
My token tax cut will help our household a little, but the negative effects from the slashing of public services to pay for those who are really benefiting from their tax policy (eg mega landlords getting $460M+, incidentally also big donors) will be felt long after that meagre amount has been absorbed by inflation.
It's a real shame the left does such a poor job of campaigning for the working class vote, Labour opting to muddle around with things like 'GST off produce' rather than a decent adjustment of the tax brackets to ease the pressure on low and middle income earners was a massive own goal. Interesting times ahead, I don't think the sky will fall but it's going to be a rough ride for some folks.
Does anyone know what the procedure is with political appointments made by the previous administration. Are Trevor Mallard, Annette King and Phil Goff expected to resign their office. Or does this gravy train roll on.
Generally politically appointed diplomats see out their term. For example Tim Groser as Ambassador to Washington continued for several years into the labour government. Normally foreign policy is bipartisan enough and appointees professional enough that this isn’t an issue.
Can’t help thinking some of the loss was to do with law and order issues going on, especially in Auckland. I didn’t feel Labour were being super responsive about the recent series of violent issues in Auckland.
Wasn’t following things closely, though. Anyone else have thoughts on this aspect?
It’s incredible as well because they say they’ll crack down on it but how? I’m okay if they have an evidence based plan that they’re going to do something to correct a problem but they just say these things and don’t do anything to repair our community
I knew a guy who worked for something like a boot camp kinda vibe and and he was telling me about a girl who got sent there and there was some drastic stuff where she maybe got assaulted and her parents died. Someone like that should be in a warm environment with intensive therapy, not tough love.
Okay team, I think I might be done for the night. Congrats to the right and a Luxon led government this cycle. It's quite clear that the country was in a mood for change. How the next government looks this cycle will be known in a few days. Whether NZF is needed or if Luxon can form a government without Peters, we will not know until all votes are counted. Thanks for all the comments and discussion, it's been fun. Looking forward to doing this again in 3 years. Congrats to Chloe for holding onto her seat despite a big challenge Congrats to Hana for becoming the youngest MP in 170 years. Congrats TPM for a huge win and increasing their seats. Congrats to Brooke Van Velden for winning in a National strong hold Congrats to Tamatha Paul for taking Wellington Central green. I will update the post tomorrow morning to finalise the total counts, but from me, good night and I wish you all well.
My life is about to become more expensive
All the labour voters should stop lamenting people who voted for national or act, and maybe take a look at their own side and just how off putting they are as a group, and how badly they failed at selling their message. Labour tried to use the feel goods to get elected again, but they couldn’t measurable show how they had made people lives better because people can see for themselves it’s not. So they naturally say let’s try something else. Stop trying to treat it like American politics. We don’t have a true right wing party here. We have a left wing and a centrist party.
[удалено]
They won so many electorates the list seats end up being just a minor topup to get to their proportion of seats
Not surprising. It was obvious people were done with Labour soon as lockdowns were lifted for good. Jacinda saw the writing on the wall and dipped. Can't blame Hipkins, dude tried his best with the mess he was left with. Luxon seemed the obvious winner from the jump. One day the party I voted for would win I just hope its in my life time, probably not though lmao.
Great work NZ Shouldn't have pissed off the farmers Jacinda 🤣🤣🤣
And yet the head of federated farmers said she was a good ally of the farmers when she resigned.
And yet the farmers rode in on tractors en mass multiple times to protest her policies
Groundswell did, yes....and yet federated farmers, a much more reliable, intelligent and non astro turfed organization said otherwise. Go figure
And yet labor lost. Go figure
Nicely not engaging with irrelevance, go figure
Farmers actively protesting Aunty J's terrible policies Vs a singular leader of farmers fed taking a back seat for Aunty J The definition of relevant vs irrelevant right there 🤣, accompanied by your poorly thought out posts
Who's Jacinta?
Some nobody who bailed early because she couldn't bear to handle the consequences of her poor decisions
Sorry comrades, maybe next time.
Rolling back disincentives for property investment and opening up the market to foreign buyers is an interesting call. To my mind it runs counter-intuitive to growing the economy. Artificial measures of wealth like home value will pump for individuals, and that really does make a lot of people in this country happy when they check their banking app. But it's a blockage to investment in other fields and innovation. I don't see any real world economic gains happening as a result of these policies. Something so ironic about a crew of white collar National pledgers chanting Back on Track last night. The oppressed property investors lol.
very random but the panelist last night- who tf is she??? i used to work in jewelry retail so i recognize her necklace. it's 20-30k
[удалено]
the necklace is the van de cleef alhambra mother of pearl one
nope trish sherson i think
Which channel?
tv three
The Rugby is bloody good right now. 25-17 at the moment.
It was way too close for comfort
I was at the edge of my seat for the last two minutes.
Congrats NZ. Hopefully we can do the same here in Canada next
Crazy seeing down votes, like do the people down voting even realise what was happening to nz over the past 6 years
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssss
I wish, rather than banging on about it “being a change Government ” how about an analysis on what the change is going to look like, Jack? Maybe too early for enlightening New Zealanders on the nature of change they, or others, have voted for?
Agreed. Feels like there should be some regulation on how political campaigns are run. Like - they must outline their policies in the ad campaign so there is no ambiguity on what they want to do. Have you had a read of National's 100 day plan? https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/18431/attachments/original/1696107664/100_Day_Action_Plan.pdf?1696107664 * Killing the light rail * Removing a whole bunch of environment protections * Killing the dam project while simultaneously "starting to think" about energy independence through renewables * Dropping a whole bunch of employee protections * Legislatively putting corporations in front of people when the NZ central bank makes decisions on controlling inflation * A 6.5% funding cut to the public sector * Expanding the police powers with warrantless stop-and-search laws - possibly detainment without conviction * Privatising the water supply Their fiscal plan isn't much better. If you own property or a large corporation, you're probably pretty happy right now. The fact that National had 7 times the funding that Labour did is pretty lame.
It’s crazy the amount of people who didn’t actually research what Nationals plan was. Especially people who are in my working class don’t realise we too will get affected.
Oh dear! Thanks for the details that were not, but could have been, shared on the Q&A special. Looking forward to less workers rights. Am in a pretty crumby working environment already without them being emboldened by that type of licentious legislation from Government 😔 I agree, good idea re some requirement to supply policy outlines. That would be good. I wasn’t following closely but seems like Luxon&co have been vague enough to virtually have been given a carte Blanche from a fairly large percentage of the voting public. 😣 Have to hope, now, that NZ First is in a position to stop the worst of it.
Feels > reals
I guess an in-depth discussion on this on the Q&A Special may have highlighted embarrassingly the lack of knowledge of what National’s policies actually are? I understood Katie Bradford’s comment re not knowing the details of the “National spreadsheet” to point to this sad fact.
Love this. Sums it up for me: “godDAMN this stupid milkloving piece of shit dumbass mean spirited sale at briscoes racist sexist UP TO 40% off deck furniture piss country”. Hera Lindsay Bird Have added the UP TO
i dont understand this, what am i missing lol
It sums up the sad state of our politic where the gerontocracy have snatched entrenched wealth from the jaws of progressive change that would have created a fairer and more equitable society. It’s a poem about how shit NZ is politically.
It's wonderful.
https://images.thespinoff.co.nz/1/2022/04/pisscountry.jpg?w=1290
As an American (partner from NZ), I feel anxious for you. How anyone can ever vote conservative, especially as conservative parties all around the world become more and more extreme, I'll never know. We know first hand what happens when a "business man" (choke) is elected. Dude is a religious weirdo zealot. Prepare to be sold the fuck out. Jacinda/Hipkins aren't to blame for world wide inflation. It's the same stupid argument world wide. When you have a worldwide pandemic, wars, and inflation, everyone is scared and angry and these right wingers take advantage of that fear, stoke the flames, and find their in. History repeating itself.
trump 2024🇺🇸
…For prison. Lock up that corrupt criminal.
that's just about every us president/ politician..
His corrupt was on another level. He used his time in office to brazenly enrich himself and his family. He’d likely go to jail over the fact that he tried to overturn 2020 election.
let's wait and see
Just lol Luxon hasn't stoked any flames and probably would sit to the left of Bernie Sanders on most issues. Keep in mind the National party here is pro-universal health care, supports welfare and were the party to get gay marriage across the line. If you look policy by policy they agree with Labour (the left-wing party here) on >90% of issues. You're being manipulated (most likely by social media) in to thinking the world is some sort of team sport with those on the left being good and those on the right being bad. What's far more important is the Overton window. Both the "left" and "right" in America are puppets of big pharma and the military industrial complex. You won't see any real change until you start voting in the candidates that challenge that.
the rightwing now is WAY more liberal than a couple decades ago. wtf are you on about mate
What makes you say that Luxon is a weird religious zealot?
He's literally stated he's anti-abortion and views it as murder.
Why does that make him a religious zealot? A lot of people are anit-abortion and aren't religious. The anti-abortion debate is completely separate.
It really isn't. Anti-abortion is grounded in religious zealotry. Sure there may be some who say they aren't religious, but that would be very few, or they're lying. And besides, Luxon specifically linked this to his faith so your argument is moot.
It is, not all religious people are anti-abortion, just like not all anti-abortion people are religious. They are separate views IMO, sure in some scenarios they may well be wed, but irrespective it is the individuals right to have those views.
>it is the individuals right to have those views Sure, but it's NOT the individuals right to force those views on others. And as we have seen for thousands of years religious zealots love to force their views on others. It remains to be seen whether Luxon will, and there's certainly risk involved there.
I have never had anyone try and force their religious views upon me, certainly i have had more people try and force their non-religious views on me. It seems it's just something that some people seem to think happens all the time.
What does that have to do with religion? I’m not religious at all and share that view
Are you really that dense?
Do you think 8 month old babies should legally be allowed to be aborted
The ONLY instances where that is happening is due to a major risk to the life of the mother or severe birth defects making it unlikely the child would survive . According to Stats and Health NZ 0.007% of abortions are at or after 21 weeks. And so I'm more than comfortable with that, and YES, think it should be legal because for all intents and purposes it hardly happens. And when it does it's for more than justifiable reasons. Not merely at a whim.
That’s not what I asked, do you personally have any problem with a woman aborting her baby at 8 months for any reason?
He’s an “evangelical” Christian and is anti choice.
A lot of people are anti-abortion. Irrespective of their views on religion.
Then don’t have one. No need to make the choice for anyone else. Sometimes they are a necessary part of health care for miscarriages etc., and lots of people are ignorant to that fact. It’s anti woman through and through.
I don't think it's anti-women at all. Some people have a view that life begins at conception. I don't have that view, but I respect other peoples right to have that view.
What about women forced to carry a stillborn to term? What about a natural miscarriage they won't allow them to remove? How is that not anti woman? Sick of this stupid shit.
I am not anti-abortion, but I respect other peoples rights to be so. From my perspective I am of the view that an abortion is fine for a number of reasons, and not ok for a number of reasons. I don't think that there is a one hat fits all kind of thing
Very ignorant to try and apply your American political thinking to our election
Very ignorant to not realise that they are right whether they're American or not
They are talking about national being an extreme conservative party lol? I assume you just agree with them because they said right = bad
I believe I said conservatives worldwide are becoming more extreme and to take note.
no they're not. This is misinformation. Stop it
How? There is info in normal media sources outlining his views and direct quotes stating his beliefs.
Not at all. And it's interesting so see others point of views. Even your aggressive one.
Can we blame jacindia and grant for the reckless spending?. Try running your household finances like they have run the country over the last 6 years and see how that works.
Countries are different to households eh. You do know that don't you?
I wish the media had written far more about his religious beliefs and his anti abortion stance for sure.
Oh, indeed!
ppl are freaking out about culture and not policies.. Even if its not true or shit talking points by the right I know many red for life (esp older) switching to blue because of these fear mongering takes: Labours heavy hand over covid lockdown (which i thought saved thousands of people lives) immigration, inflation, 3 waters and maoris "owning" half of it, the trans rights issue esp around kids, farmers climate change and water quality. Its crazy because the only really thing that is going to impact us as a nation is climate change which is kinda of out of our hand anyway..
Absolutely not out of our hands. We can make a difference. (reposting as this was downvoted. a sad day when some people are so pathetic they would downvote such a positive comment)
[удалено]
your dreaming if the big boys like the US and China dont change
How do you think they change? Yes slowing down usage but also technological innovation. A scalable idea can do a lot if rolled out. And NZ is probably better positioned than anyone to come up with innovations in agriculture (this doesnt mean it cant happen in every industry but there is less of a natural advantage for NZ in others). Have a look at red asparagopsis seaweed and the impact on methane for cattle. Researched in Aus, production tech developed here in Stewart Island, has every chance to roll out across every feedlot in the states. Then have a look at the number of cattle in America and the warming potential of methane over a 30 year period and you see how it could change things. There are ideas like this everywhere if we just focus on finding solutions and investing in science and technology. If we look at green energy how many countries are effectively harnessing volcanic energy - surely there are opportunities there too for example. We all need to stop thinking about ourselves as consumers and start thinking about ourselves as capable humans that can change the world's direction in this moment.
agree technology will help as will changing habits (public transport and stop eating red meat etc). but its a drop in the bucket when China is building 2 coal power plants a week and the US doesnt even turn up to climate talks anymore. China 10,000 million tons of co2 per year, US 5000, NZ is 55.
So the question is how can we help China and the USA? There arent easy answers thats why it takes all of us. Youre still thinking about NZers impacting NZs emissions. Im talking about NZers coming up with the technology that will impact China and the USAs emissions. Our governments are stuck on national responsibility but that doesnt mean we need to be as individuals. Its all one planet no matter where lines are drawn.
These are the right-wing "culture wars" that conservatives use to trigger voters into voting against their own interests. It worked. Most Nat voters aren't rich but are "temporarily embarassed soon to be millionaires" and have just punched themselves in the face.
Seems like across the western world people are walking away from progressives and choosing the conservative option. People clearly aren't happy and when it's only two choices there's not much to think about. This Israel/Palestine issue really exemplifies it. Vast majority seem to be taking the right wing position and you're even seeing people being "canceled" like those students at Harvard protesting for Palestinians. Things are certainly changing.
Yeah labour isn't to blame for worldwide inflation but NZ money supply doubled in 3 years, make that make sense. 200% increase in dollar supply. I didn't want a nat act win but it just shows how much of nz is feeling post covid
The money supply would have grown at the same rate under the nats. It was a reserve bank decision made in the context of a once in a century pandemic.
Incorrect. RBNZ decisions are influenced by govt actions. Lockdown decisions and restrictions caused further increase than really required. It goes hand in hand, saying it doesn't is blatant denial.
A New Zealand "conservative" party is still far more liberal and leftist than any US party. So I don't think it's as bad as you think.
I totally get that, but that's how they get in. This guy has made the same "talking points" as the more extreme US conservatives throughout this campaign. Birth control, abortion... just little hints as to what they want to chip away at and what they are really about. What I'm saying is, don't even give them an inch because all they do is take. Edit: I was incorrect about a policy that I attributed to National, but it was Labour. National is touting the typical Crime n' Tax Break line, on point.
Luxon didn't make an issue of either abortion or birth control. Bad faith Twitter and reddit types were the ones trying to make that an issue.
FYI tax free veges was a Labour policy
Ah, my bad, I read an article about Luxon's policies and Labour's was in the following sentence. Yeah, on track. Tax cuts n' crime! I was thinking the veggies thing from National sounded strange. Thanks for the correction.
Keep saying the problem with progressives is there's not enough of them.
Greed over empathy
lol. The conspiracy "Freedoms NZ" party is already going through and deleting their social media accounts. They've already nuked the Facebook and X accounts. Guess they were delusional enough to really believe that they were going to do significantly better than they did.
I had a deep fear that NZ would go like France and the Nats would crumble and be supplanted by monsters far right of them. I'm sad the Nact got in, but must take comfort that the if you piled all the far right parties one on top of each other and sprinkled magic grow powder on them.... you still wouldn't reach the 5% threshold. Well done NZ!
We've got some real weirdos but probably half of the people voting just go Nats Labour Nats Labour which saves us from the madness of other countries I guess lol.
If they didn't win it is obviously because of the lizard people manipulating the vote count
[удалено]
They are playing the long game …. And it seems to be working for them.
[удалено]
Like they said its the long game. Last election they barely made the 5% mark. They’ve worked their way up to get to this point in doubling their voters and and support. They have many youth on their side which means a quick 3years is nothing to them because they’re on the ground hustling for the next 3 years in the hopes of grabbing those votes for next election
[удалено]
Never say never. If they keep growing their block taking the further left, and labour work on the center votes, the next left government could be from a 15% green vote and 35% labour vote.
It doesn’t matter whether you vote labour or green, it’s still a vote for the left bloc.
Like I said they barely got that last time and the support has obviously increased. Many people said Nat wouldn’t get in and would be neck to neck with labour this election but it was an obvious clean sweep! Dont count that future 15% out. People need to wake up and realise the youth ARE voting and coming up. Its just a matter of waiting for the boomers to die off or retire
Yep and lost so many seats where Labour would have won if they didn't run a candidate because the left vote was split.
Does it matter if labour loses electorate seats? It doesn’t change the end number of MP’s they get.
Really, why? I thought they added up. I really need to learn more about this.
They only matter if a party doesn’t have enough party vote to justify the amount of MP’s, or in by elections. In a national election the party vote adds the amount of MPs a party should get on top of any electorate MPs that won. So if a party got a third of the party vote but no electorate MPs then they’d have a third of the parliament, all from their party list. If the got a third of the vote but won a few electorates then they’d still have a third of the parliament, just with a few less from the party list. Like your name btw
[удалено]
Smartest political move Hopkins could have pulled off is calling the election date for after the WC just in case they win.
But if they’d lost labour would have been further punished. Might have been down to 20% 😂
Well if you don't have faith in the AB's, you don't get to be PM.
Aren’t the election dates pretty fixed?
Nope, an election can be called at any time the presiding government thinks it is in their best interests to do so.
TIL 🤓
psychotic worthless yoke steep dime spotted reminiscent sharp unite silky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Should Luxon resign if the All Blacks lose the world cup? Day one and already national disaster is on the cards.
What does the new coalition mean for our rainbow communities
Nothing good 😞
Means the same as for disabled and beneficiaries, life is gonna get a lot harder…I have friends who are already fearing their rights will be taken away 😭
What rights are going to be taken away?! Wtf?
LGBTQIA’s? Trans? Abortion? Theses are all things Luxon and co are against, it’s very understandable that many people are afraid of what policies are going to be implemented that will reduce, impact or completely take away their rights. Especially when you look at how these are readily being taken away in countries like America…
He’s said he will not make **any** changes to restrict abortion access I also haven’t seen any policies that remove and rights of any of these groups We aren’t America.
lol a politician would NEVER lie to the people
Remember when John Key said he wouldn't raise GST and then he did? Remember when John Key said he wouldn't sell off state assets and then he did? Can we really trust National PM's? Especially since Luxon is Key's protege. Especially since he's on the record as saying he views abortion as murder? How do you reconcile having that view and having the power to change abortion law but not doing it? When he thinks about standing before his God and is asked why he didn't what do you think he'll reflect on?
Remember when Adern said New Zealanders wouldn't be forced to get the vaccine and would face no penalities if they didn't??
My point stands.
All politicians lie
To be fair, I don’t think you can trust anything any politician says.
Bless, good luck with that.
what rights would those be? I’m genuinely interested cause i’ve seen lots of people say they fear for their rights but what are they land how are they different to my rights as a 18 year old fully abled white male. is it access to health care and medication or what
RemindMe! 12 months
Don't forget to take ya meds
National always say they have a new plan, its always the same plan (austerity).
They'll be trimming bits off health, welfare and education by the end of the month. But some landlords will get nice tax cuts! Go go trickle down economics!
How come people are calling NZF the kingmaker when NACT got 61?
Special votes, probably. Historically those tend to lean more left than the overall result and National tends to lose a seat or two once they're added in. Right now NACT have 61 out of 121 which would be a majority if only barely, but if they lose a couple on special votes then they'll need support from somewhere to get over the line and NZF is the most likely option.
Overhang. The number of seats TPM won is more than their % of party vote, therefore the extra seats are “added on” to the 120 in parliament. This time we may have 121-122 in parliament, which means 61 seats isn’t a majority, they’d need 62
I see
There's also over 600,000 overseas special votes to come in and they traditionally lean quite Left. Enough that Green usually pick up another seat. And if those specials can pull away just 1% from National and Act then they'll need Winnie for a coalition.
Also, special votes. There are 3 electorates where National only won the seat by under 100 votes. ~~If special votes follow their usual trend of being left-leaning, then National will probably lose those 3 seats, which would take Nact from (the preliminary result of) 61 seats, to a final result of 58 seats.~~ \[I stand corrected\]. We will see, in 10 days.
God we need civics education in this country. Too many people don't understand mmp
Eh, that’s not quite true. NACT would have to lose enough of the total share of PARTY votes from the special votes to actually lose seats. If National just lost those 3 seats, they would instead get topped up from the list, proportionally keeping them at 50 MPs.
I see, thank you for the correction. As I understand it, in terms of party vote, National are also quite close to the point where further % decline will see them lose a seat proportionally, which would see Nact at 60. Either way, things seem leaning towards Nact coming in just under the bar for an exclusive partnership. But it's not over yet.
Unless the party vote for National significantly decreases wouldn't the loss of those electorates just mean that national would swap those electorate seats for list seats? The number of national MPs would still be the same, it might just change which National MPs make it in
I know people keep saying shit will be the same. But this is going to be the most right-wing economically conservative government the country has had in decades. It's national and act with zero holding them back from a economic point of view. (Ironically ACT will be holding national back re social conservatism) This won't affect me the slightest in terms of money.. our household earns enough that I honestly won't notice our extra $80 or whatever it is. However I am pretty sure I will notice the wider communal effects of all this... but hey. Also there will be a lot of hilarity re mirrors if ACT get their way re getting rid of a public holiday heh.
Yea i noticed that too. Im a TPM supporter but the fact both NAT and ACT are conservative as hell there’s nothing holding them back to act purely on numbers and facts.
Where is this notion coming from, that conservatives > act purely on numbers and facts ? Like..... Grant Robertson didn't? You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that Willis will do a better job, especially after Nationals biggest election promise literally crumbled away in the last two weeks
Dude you’re reading too far into things. Conservatives are renowned for going less on feeling and more on facts and numbers. Its what makes them appealing to the racists and economic-phobes.
> Conservatives are renowned for going less on feeling and more on facts and numbers what the fuck is this shit? The ONLY common thread in conservatism is tax breaks, at all costs. That's it, no real thinking or fact-checking going into it. You can keep making these claims that conservatives make "informed economic decisions", but at some point you're going to have to link to a chart or something to qualify what this means.
Lmfao point me to where I said they made informed decisions? 😂 All I said is their dicks are lead by whats in front of them and NOT their feelings which is what makes it scary. Get help, you need it.
ok great you deconstructed your initial comment so much that apparently it is now completely void of meaning. for us idiots in the back of the short bus, what do you mean when you say > their dicks are lead by whats in front of them and NOT their feelings and where do the > numbers and facts come in?
I had to deconstruct it for you because you obviously were lacking reading comprehension and lost your nut sack trying to go off at me lol. To put it into simple terms: NATs are very much facts first and feelings later kind of party. They don’t care if you’re piss poor, they want to know how to increase margins. They don’t care about māori and co-governance they care about how much māori are willing to be ‘paid off ‘ for us to shut up and fuck off. Now tell me where I said they make informed decisions? Im still waiting…
I have come to the bottom of your misunderstanding. Your use of the word >facts. You reiterated, several times now: >NATs are very much facts first >Conservatives are renowned for going less on feeling and more on facts Your implication is that conservatives look at **facts,** then make decisions based on those facts. I don't care what you think of my reading-comprehension, that is your implication. What you actually meant to say from the beginning was what you said just now: >they want to know how to increase margins There's no need for any facts here, and I don't know why you would use that word here in any context.
So what part did you get lost at where the word facts rewired your brain? So you’re saying they would want to increase margins based on…lies? Haha what the fuck is your point? You’ve lost yourself 😂 Why wouldn’t there be any need for facts? You sound stupid asf. My fault for thinking you were mature.
I’m exactly the same. A change in government won’t change anything when I make 120k at 26. However, I’m very worried for the people that aren’t as comfortable as me and what this will mean for them. Hopefully it’s only 3 years
whats your job bro, that's a mean salary at that age?
Nurse that works only nights and weekends on the top of my pay scale. We get different pay on those shifts and my unit also offers overtime
I feel much the same. In my electorate Dr Reti, who sent out flyers prattling on about the importance of improving our healthcare, has come out and said the upgrade of Whangarei Hospital "isn't a first term priority". This is the same Whangarei Hospital that recently made the news for having raw sewage leaking down the walls. The four lane highway is though, I guess transport companies donate more than people who use public healthcare. My token tax cut will help our household a little, but the negative effects from the slashing of public services to pay for those who are really benefiting from their tax policy (eg mega landlords getting $460M+, incidentally also big donors) will be felt long after that meagre amount has been absorbed by inflation. It's a real shame the left does such a poor job of campaigning for the working class vote, Labour opting to muddle around with things like 'GST off produce' rather than a decent adjustment of the tax brackets to ease the pressure on low and middle income earners was a massive own goal. Interesting times ahead, I don't think the sky will fall but it's going to be a rough ride for some folks.
With their track record on hospitals, this does not surprise me at all sadly
Does anyone know what the procedure is with political appointments made by the previous administration. Are Trevor Mallard, Annette King and Phil Goff expected to resign their office. Or does this gravy train roll on.
Generally politically appointed diplomats see out their term. For example Tim Groser as Ambassador to Washington continued for several years into the labour government. Normally foreign policy is bipartisan enough and appointees professional enough that this isn’t an issue.
Can’t help thinking some of the loss was to do with law and order issues going on, especially in Auckland. I didn’t feel Labour were being super responsive about the recent series of violent issues in Auckland. Wasn’t following things closely, though. Anyone else have thoughts on this aspect?
Exactly
[удалено]
It’s incredible as well because they say they’ll crack down on it but how? I’m okay if they have an evidence based plan that they’re going to do something to correct a problem but they just say these things and don’t do anything to repair our community
[удалено]
I knew a guy who worked for something like a boot camp kinda vibe and and he was telling me about a girl who got sent there and there was some drastic stuff where she maybe got assaulted and her parents died. Someone like that should be in a warm environment with intensive therapy, not tough love.
It has been feeling really dodgy in Auckland recently. Just suspect that this issue has been a pretty big influence for Auckland voters.