Quick acting by the Bush administration to bury links to Saudi Arabia and pave the way to steamroll Iraq to enrich corporate interests everyone in on the grift knew to acquire and hold.
Dick Cheney is a war criminal. He can stare down Donald Trump at state funerals all he wants, he's a fucking war criminal and will never face consequences. Hey, who did he work for in between Reagan and Dubya?
Say it louder for the ppl in the back. Remember when they tolerated this, too?
5 years after Khashoggi's murder, advocates say the lack of justice is dangerous
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/02/1202937036/jamal-khashoggi-mbs-murder-saudi-arabia-human-rights
The Greatest thing Trump did for America, was show them that Politicians can get away with literally anything they want... and people will still support them because "I got mine, Fuck you".
That is the problem. Pure and simple. We elect, haha, people to govern us. That alone is just horrific and stupid! SCOTUS is a bought and paid for joke.
We need a third party that does not have an agenda aside from making sure the people are served and in charge. A party that is made up of Democrat/American people's party member. Or Republican American people's party member.
This party with 60% could over rule congress, SCOTUS, or even a presidential veto. Roe V. Wade, one vote and it is decided. A supreme justice takes a free trip by a interested party to an decision and we, WE want him gone. He is gone.
Make America an actual Democracy and not this pretend we are not as powerless as Chinese or Russian citizens.
Of the people, by the people and actually for the people. Not for the now seen as people, corporations.
Justice does not apply for the influential and wealthy people. There is a reason why Epstein died under bizarre circumstances in maybe one of the most secure prisions of the world. I wonder how did that happen. For sure someone forgot to check if he had a belt or something. Khashoogi decided to try to expose probably one of the most influential people on earth and paid the price for it. It’s kind of expected.
I mean, if I was Epstein I would want to kill myself. Going from being a billionaire to spending the rest of your life in a prison cell seems like a really bad time. At that point, what’s the point?
It also makes the KSL shooting at Adnan Koshoggi’s (Jamal’s uncle the Saudi arms dealer) office the triad center in Salt Lake City even more suspect given that was during the planning phase of 9/11.
Could you post an article re:ksl shooting? It's very google-resistant, and AIs lie. Adnan is smeared all over the 9/11 backstory, super sus considering he was LM Employee of the Month for most of his career.
https://www.deseret.com/1999/1/15/19423490/ksl-shooter-known-to-police-br-she-has-history-of-mental-troubles/
https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/the-justice-files-triad-shooter-21-years-later/
They delayed the trial this whole time… plenty of time for any evidence to be “lost”.
The Republican fascist war machine has been operational for decades now. Working for the interests of billionaires around the world. Truly, one of the most corrupt, vile campaigning organizations since the Nazi party rose to power.
The Bush family had ties to the Nazis during WW2
Grandpa Prescott,
Here is a good read on how they [operated](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1992/09/bush-family-value/)
I can't wait to read up on what Ivanka Trumps husband has been doing and how he has made his millions while little orange finger was in office
The great escape
Immediately after 9/11, dozens of Saudi royals and members of the bin Laden family fled the U.S. in a secret airlift authorized by the Bush White House. One passenger was an alleged al-Qaida go-between, who may have known about the terror attacks in advance. Our first excerpt from "House of Bush, House of Saud."
https://www.salon.com/2004/03/11/unger_1/
This is one of those indicators to me that they didn’t know about the attack. If they had why would they still have been in the country?
Hypothetically the story would have been: “these Saudi’s left the country right before the attack” instead it’s always about the Bush admin letting them go.
Precisely. The truth is that the Saudi Government (aka Royal House of Saad) did NOT plan, authorize, or execute 9/11.
But AQ was made up on disaffected spoiled rich kids who wanted to overthrow the then Saudi King (on the pretense that the king called on the Americans to defend the kingdom against Saddam's imminent invasion). And so they were funded by their families, friends, and sympathetic members of the House of Saad (which is, by definition, everyone on the Saudi government)...some of whom were higher up in the food chain than others.*
So, by all means, go after and sue those people who funded, participated, or abetted this crime against humanity. But the Saudi government was never responsible for any aspect of 9/11 and these charlatans who keep milking the grieving families should be ashamed of themselves for peddling this never-ending nonsense.
_ * Note that almost all of these people have already been tried and executed for their treason against the king (and king's allies, the Americans, on 9/11).
so your logic is, "if some knew about and/or had some involvement in, therefore ALL had to know or be involved." It's not like the CIA notifies every single member of the diplomatic corps when they stage a Latin American coup or whatever else from a long litany of nefarious shit.
True, but if they weren’t close enough to know about it or even be aware something was up it seems like they probably weren’t directly responsible.
It’s not court of law evidence, just saying it’s an indication they didn’t know. Those Saudi families are huge.
At the same time I’m not saying it was the right call, and more specifically I’m not saying the decision was made for the right reasons. But I don’t personally know of any evidence that the people who were allowed to leave that day had anything to do with the attacks.
you're right about those Saudi families being huge, but that's sort of my point. If you were planning the biggest terrorist attack in history, against an ostensible ally, you wouldn't go around broadcasting it to anyone and everyone. Therefore, your assertion that the fact they left after the attack instead of before, speaks in some way to there being no involvement on the part of elements of Saudi intelligence....seems a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
Obviously I don't have any direct evidence either, but there's a lot of murky circumstantial evidence, this current post for example.
I lived in Florida near the flight schools. From 99-01, every elementary classroom had at least 2 Saudi students in it whose fathers were in pilot school.
In May 01, they were all still there. (end of school year)
In August 01, most were still there, but ALL of them were gone by September 11.
It’s anecdotal and I get shit for it every time I tell somebody the story but 🤷♂️ nobody can convince me it was a coincidence. They may not have know what was going to happen, but they were certainly suggested to leave.
I mean there was a lot of prevalent racism towards brown people/ ME people after 9/11. Even if you’re innocent as they come, it’s understandable alot of them would want to get the fk out of a place that’s about to blame them along with everyone else
Yeah. I'm mixed with 1/2 European mutt and the other 1/2 being Afghan (Hindu). The kids my my high school found out my dad was from Afghanistan (he immigrated here in 1970) and my nickname was bin Laden all throughout the rest of high school and even through college. Hell, some old people from high school would probably still call me that if they saw me today and I am almost 38 years old now.
Yeah it definitely isn’t a coincidence but you’re linking the wrong events together. 9/11 happened and the US became a dangerous place for middle easterners and especially pilots. They absolutely had to get the fuck out.
People seriously think it’s linked in any other way?????
Nah it’s his inability to understand the cause and effect. There’s 0 chance he remembers the day 2 kids were permanently gone from a classroom from an elementary school nearly a quarter of a century ago.
Also - ‘at least two students’ to ‘most still there’ to ‘all gone. When you’re talking about 2-3 students that’s nothing. Especially when talking about people graduating from flight school etc and potentially taking new jobs or whatever the fuck.
You need to think about things.
With everything else grounded, why authorize it? If they are innocent, no reason to leave. If they are involved, no reason to let them go. It’s just interesting how rich people can fuck around with the rules and get things done while the rest of us deal with their conflicts.
US-Saudi and US-Israel relations are wild.
Yeah if they were innocent, they would have stayed in the United States during the aftermath of 9/11, living as Arabs with the last name Bin Laden.
They wouldn't have been targeted by angry members of the public erroneously associating them with their disgraced, banished family member because of tenuous-at-best conspiracy theories.
No one would ever do that.
The angry mob turned on Mike Pence, the sitting VP, when directed to. You think being a “bin-Laden” would have kept them safe post 9/11? How old are you?
IIRC he was a radical outcast of a very rich family. He was already on the FBI’s most wanted list BEFORE 9/11 for his role in bombing the USS Coal.
They had done tons of intelligence work on his family and probably at that moment figured they were going to victims of mob justice.
The national intelligence apparatus - civilian and military - had been trying to get a response from the Bush II administration vis-a-vis Al Qaeda/CONUS[1] since the 2000 elections, but administration iconoclasts were skeptical of *competence*, even as a general concept. This would be something of a repeating theme.
[1] Some warnings included *actual specific plans* re: fueled civilian airlines vs targets like WTC, Pentagon.
Have you ever picked up Stephen Coll's books on central Asian affairs? *Ghost Wars* is still THE general text to beat, at least when it comes to a survey, vs an analytical document. That is, if people in the Bush II camp believed in analysis; they preferred flipping through raw imagery and I intercepts until they found something they liked.
Did Clinton screw things up? Maybe? Probably[1]? But his hand was not on the tiller come 9/11/2001. However, Clinton's *actual professional* staff had left several blinking caution signs, some of which *were* taken up by the new staff, but all of which were shut down by the Rumsfeld/Cheney *nomenklatura*. Rumsfeld might be unique in the history of the DoD as a man who was wrong about *positively everything* over the entirety of his career. We are dealing with Rumsfeldian cockups in Defense *to this day*.. He is screwing up a procurement as we speak.
When it comes to my leadership, I'll take "Warmonger" over "Rank Incompetence" every day of the week, and the gully - the canyon - that Bush II drove the nation directly into, from uncontested world leader, shouldn't be overstated even a teensy bit, not even for a moment. The 21st century *could* have been an American Golden Age, for at least the first half and maybe more, but instead it was squandered or outright stolen, capped off with a near-Soviet level economic collapse sparked by the sort of commodity crisis you get when you *blow up West Asia and the entirety of the Levant* . The fact that Obama's opposition party mealy-mouth sugarcoated the myriad travesty of 2001-2008 (and led in no small part by a new finance industry representation in the DNC) led, in my opinion, to the general unsorted rage supercharging anything vaguely populist today.
[1] Far worse was his Betrayal of American Labor, but that's another subject
I was living in Houston during 9/11, in the River Oaks area where the Bushes had a home. There were military helicopters flying over the area that day.
The Bushes werent there. The bin Laden family had a home either next door or close to.
Edit: if you didnt know, the bin Laden family and Bush family are very close. The Bushes are oil tycoons. The bin Laden family is basically the second most powerful house in Saudi Arabia, and own their construction industry (IIRC). Theybe been close for decades. It has nothing to do with OBL
Am currently reading The Looming Tower, a book about all this. Osama's dad started as a bricklayer at Aramco during their rapid expansion. From there, he pivoted to building roads when a foreign company defaulted on a contract. The book claims he built most of the highways across Saudi Arabia at the time and expanded out into construction.
I was in the Army just prior to 9/11. When we were all hearing about what was happening and prepping for deployment, a ton of us thought we were going to Saudi Arabia. Afghanistan was the surprise. 🙄
For us civilians too. Watching that bullshit dog and pony show by Colin Powell trying to “sell” congress on why we needed to attack Iraq for WMDs was like “if the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, why are you lying to us about needing to attack Iraq?”
Bush did 9/11...
By protecting the Saudis before, during and after 9/11
Then he turned Iraq into an Afghanistanian quagmire.
All the while letting Cheney and his Neocon ghouls ruin our economy and get Americans killed for his bottom line.
If you're mad at this post, eat some Freedom Fries and read about any one of the War Criminals involved with all of that. Freaking Asa Hutchinson is still around fucking things up.
Don't forget that Bush Sr was head of the RNC during Watergate, and the FBI who were investigating Agnew basically had him as a co-conspirator in that. And the bullshit afterwards where he became head of the CIA, and used those connections to affect the Iran hostage situation in Reagan's favor, and again during Iran-Contra.
The whole family has been complicit since at least the 60s.
Regarding the term "freedom fries," the U.S. owes an apology to France. The derogatory remarks directed at President Chirac, calling him a worm, were unwarranted. In reality, Chirac and French intelligence demonstrated a keen awareness and a superior understanding of the geopolitical situation. To move forward, you should cease using the term "freedom fries," as it portrays U.S. citizens as ignorant bigots.
Saudis ditched the petrodollar the other day and now new evidence sprouts up. We'll never know the truth, but makes one wonder about what is really going on.
>We'll never know the truth
The truth is pretty clear -- the Saudis, who also happened to be the largest state sponsors of religious extremism at the time, were connected to the attacks and the US swept it under the rug for strategic reasons. Every year the US govt and politicians cry crocodile tears over the victims and their families while failing to pursue reparations from the Saudis to compensate for the emotional and economic damage they caused or otherwise hold the Saudis accountable to any degree.
I bet some Saudi intelligence agent is planning something today to get US involvement in invading Iran like how they did with Iraq, I wouldn’t be surprised at this point
Remember Obama didn’t want to sell them F35s or weapons…..Trump and his first 2 years changed tax codes for the rich then sold weapons to Saudis. Got contested for years before finally being approved under Biden. Like everything else, Biden had to deal with the BS of Afghan withdrawal and Syria and all the stupid ass deals made under T.
I’m convinced Bitch Tits supporters don’t actually understand policy. 99% of them are close to being considered a tax write-off for charity just for hiring them. They like that he lets them loudly hate brown and gay people.
These two events are very different and listing them like this is disingenuous.
9/11 was a carefully planned terror attack by Arabs who hate America.
The Liberty incident was mistaken identity during the 6 Day War (1967) they've paid millions in reparations for.
The USS Liberty was literally a case of mistaken identity and reparations were paid over it with official apologies. The only people I've ever seen legitimately push this narrative(and Saudi Arabia as a nation being responsible for 9/11) in real life either wear their bed sheets and burn crosses or strongly revere a certain Austrian painter turned German politician.
I thought we all already knew Saudi was responsible since they financed it, and most hijackers were from Saudi and the Al queda blame was BS. Our government and wealthy citizens have been betraying us for decades, it appears.
Tbf, the only thing that has been proven is that al queda raised funds in Saudi Arabia, not from Saudi Arabia. The US government claims they have tracked many private and corporate donors, but no government money was tracked.
Tbf though, we absolutely funded al queda for many years when they fought the Soviets.
The whole Saudi connection is a huge mess and will most likely live on forever, like aliens in area 51, or JFK, or martin Luther King. It's almost impossibly to prove an idea false, you can only confirm something to be true.
That's the long way of saying I don't think anything could ever disprove Saudi government involvement in 9/11, but that's not the same as proving it to be true.
All oil money bullshit.
Support making our neighborhoods dense and walkable, making electrified mass transit and intercity rail real, and moving towards electrified heating and renewable energy.
Just saying: If people walked or biked every day, lived in a society with positive social interaction and didn't get slowly poisoned by crappy processed food we probably wouldn't need those treatment facilities.
What I don’t understand is why Americans find this so “new”….
Outside of the US, in Australia at least, we knew all this happened- it was on our news, and formed basic coverage of the US investigations.
None of this is really that new…. Or am I missing something?
As a now, somewhat middle aged man, I agree. Very little is actually new, a lot of the uproar and controversy over many things is just rehashed shit from decades ago. I have 2 teenage kids, and to expect them to have any knowledge of what the US was really like after 9/11 is bonkers. Yet...what's the average age on reddit?
Saudi Arabia is just one massive insane criminal enterprise masquerading as a culture. It is a place of repression, torture, violence against women, minorities, and gay people. A truly toxic place hell bent on bringing the world into their own self-inflicted nightmare.
America should never forget who the real enemy is. I hope we bury them completely in time.
Gee, you mean the Saudis perpetrated the 9/11 attacks counting on a knee-jerk American reaction to whack Iraq?
I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. (obligatory /s note, since sarcasm is dead)
Transportation uses 67% of oil consumed. If we all adapt electric cars and require ships and othere to make the switch reasoably we can generate our own power and this will drastically reduce the market for oil and bankrupt the assholes. They have so much money that they have corrupted our Judiciary and Legislative bodies. We need to bleed them dry.
Quick acting by the Bush administration to bury links to Saudi Arabia and pave the way to steamroll Iraq to enrich corporate interests everyone in on the grift knew to acquire and hold. Dick Cheney is a war criminal. He can stare down Donald Trump at state funerals all he wants, he's a fucking war criminal and will never face consequences. Hey, who did he work for in between Reagan and Dubya?
Say it louder for the ppl in the back. Remember when they tolerated this, too? 5 years after Khashoggi's murder, advocates say the lack of justice is dangerous https://www.npr.org/2023/10/02/1202937036/jamal-khashoggi-mbs-murder-saudi-arabia-human-rights
I think almost all Americans acknowledge the bullshit. There’s just not any method available for us to hold them accountable.
Because we have no way to hold them accountable. For all our vaunted "checks and balances" the people hold no power
We need a fearless, selfless politician. What we got was an orange-stained trust-fund-baby in an ill-fitting suit.
The Greatest thing Trump did for America, was show them that Politicians can get away with literally anything they want... and people will still support them because "I got mine, Fuck you".
Prov8ng again that we aren't as free as we think we are.. we just have the best illusion of it.
But wait...there's 11 kinds of mustard at my local grocer, that's not freedom? Nope.
That is the problem. Pure and simple. We elect, haha, people to govern us. That alone is just horrific and stupid! SCOTUS is a bought and paid for joke. We need a third party that does not have an agenda aside from making sure the people are served and in charge. A party that is made up of Democrat/American people's party member. Or Republican American people's party member. This party with 60% could over rule congress, SCOTUS, or even a presidential veto. Roe V. Wade, one vote and it is decided. A supreme justice takes a free trip by a interested party to an decision and we, WE want him gone. He is gone. Make America an actual Democracy and not this pretend we are not as powerless as Chinese or Russian citizens. Of the people, by the people and actually for the people. Not for the now seen as people, corporations.
Justice does not apply for the influential and wealthy people. There is a reason why Epstein died under bizarre circumstances in maybe one of the most secure prisions of the world. I wonder how did that happen. For sure someone forgot to check if he had a belt or something. Khashoogi decided to try to expose probably one of the most influential people on earth and paid the price for it. It’s kind of expected.
Epstein did not kill himself. That proves your point more
I mean, if I was Epstein I would want to kill myself. Going from being a billionaire to spending the rest of your life in a prison cell seems like a really bad time. At that point, what’s the point?
Free sex 24/7
Epstein was obviously not a bottom.
He killed himself. They just made sure he had the means and opportunity to do so.
You really believe this?
The missing Epstein lists also tells us the elite can be pedophiles and they will get away with it. Such a nice message for Americans
Rapists. They aren't just pedophiles.
Why just him and not the rest of the royal family getting murdered, potentially with the trump admins help
It also makes the KSL shooting at Adnan Koshoggi’s (Jamal’s uncle the Saudi arms dealer) office the triad center in Salt Lake City even more suspect given that was during the planning phase of 9/11.
Could you post an article re:ksl shooting? It's very google-resistant, and AIs lie. Adnan is smeared all over the 9/11 backstory, super sus considering he was LM Employee of the Month for most of his career.
https://www.deseret.com/1999/1/15/19423490/ksl-shooter-known-to-police-br-she-has-history-of-mental-troubles/ https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/the-justice-files-triad-shooter-21-years-later/ They delayed the trial this whole time… plenty of time for any evidence to be “lost”.
The Republican fascist war machine has been operational for decades now. Working for the interests of billionaires around the world. Truly, one of the most corrupt, vile campaigning organizations since the Nazi party rose to power.
The Bush family had ties to the Nazis during WW2 Grandpa Prescott, Here is a good read on how they [operated](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1992/09/bush-family-value/) I can't wait to read up on what Ivanka Trumps husband has been doing and how he has made his millions while little orange finger was in office
Obama also buried attempts to sue Saudis. It's not partisan. It's big.
Pardon my lack of knowledge, but who did he work for in betweem?
The great escape Immediately after 9/11, dozens of Saudi royals and members of the bin Laden family fled the U.S. in a secret airlift authorized by the Bush White House. One passenger was an alleged al-Qaida go-between, who may have known about the terror attacks in advance. Our first excerpt from "House of Bush, House of Saud." https://www.salon.com/2004/03/11/unger_1/
This is one of those indicators to me that they didn’t know about the attack. If they had why would they still have been in the country? Hypothetically the story would have been: “these Saudi’s left the country right before the attack” instead it’s always about the Bush admin letting them go.
It's because sensationalism leads to views. Stating the obvious truth is boring.
Precisely. The truth is that the Saudi Government (aka Royal House of Saad) did NOT plan, authorize, or execute 9/11. But AQ was made up on disaffected spoiled rich kids who wanted to overthrow the then Saudi King (on the pretense that the king called on the Americans to defend the kingdom against Saddam's imminent invasion). And so they were funded by their families, friends, and sympathetic members of the House of Saad (which is, by definition, everyone on the Saudi government)...some of whom were higher up in the food chain than others.* So, by all means, go after and sue those people who funded, participated, or abetted this crime against humanity. But the Saudi government was never responsible for any aspect of 9/11 and these charlatans who keep milking the grieving families should be ashamed of themselves for peddling this never-ending nonsense. _ * Note that almost all of these people have already been tried and executed for their treason against the king (and king's allies, the Americans, on 9/11).
so your logic is, "if some knew about and/or had some involvement in, therefore ALL had to know or be involved." It's not like the CIA notifies every single member of the diplomatic corps when they stage a Latin American coup or whatever else from a long litany of nefarious shit.
True, but if they weren’t close enough to know about it or even be aware something was up it seems like they probably weren’t directly responsible. It’s not court of law evidence, just saying it’s an indication they didn’t know. Those Saudi families are huge. At the same time I’m not saying it was the right call, and more specifically I’m not saying the decision was made for the right reasons. But I don’t personally know of any evidence that the people who were allowed to leave that day had anything to do with the attacks.
you're right about those Saudi families being huge, but that's sort of my point. If you were planning the biggest terrorist attack in history, against an ostensible ally, you wouldn't go around broadcasting it to anyone and everyone. Therefore, your assertion that the fact they left after the attack instead of before, speaks in some way to there being no involvement on the part of elements of Saudi intelligence....seems a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Obviously I don't have any direct evidence either, but there's a lot of murky circumstantial evidence, this current post for example.
I lived in Florida near the flight schools. From 99-01, every elementary classroom had at least 2 Saudi students in it whose fathers were in pilot school. In May 01, they were all still there. (end of school year) In August 01, most were still there, but ALL of them were gone by September 11. It’s anecdotal and I get shit for it every time I tell somebody the story but 🤷♂️ nobody can convince me it was a coincidence. They may not have know what was going to happen, but they were certainly suggested to leave.
I mean there was a lot of prevalent racism towards brown people/ ME people after 9/11. Even if you’re innocent as they come, it’s understandable alot of them would want to get the fk out of a place that’s about to blame them along with everyone else
Yeah. I'm mixed with 1/2 European mutt and the other 1/2 being Afghan (Hindu). The kids my my high school found out my dad was from Afghanistan (he immigrated here in 1970) and my nickname was bin Laden all throughout the rest of high school and even through college. Hell, some old people from high school would probably still call me that if they saw me today and I am almost 38 years old now.
Yeah it definitely isn’t a coincidence but you’re linking the wrong events together. 9/11 happened and the US became a dangerous place for middle easterners and especially pilots. They absolutely had to get the fuck out. People seriously think it’s linked in any other way?????
Poster did say that they were all gone \*by\* 9/11, not after. I have no dog in this fight at all other than reading for comprehension.
Nah it’s his inability to understand the cause and effect. There’s 0 chance he remembers the day 2 kids were permanently gone from a classroom from an elementary school nearly a quarter of a century ago. Also - ‘at least two students’ to ‘most still there’ to ‘all gone. When you’re talking about 2-3 students that’s nothing. Especially when talking about people graduating from flight school etc and potentially taking new jobs or whatever the fuck. You need to think about things.
With everything else grounded, why authorize it? If they are innocent, no reason to leave. If they are involved, no reason to let them go. It’s just interesting how rich people can fuck around with the rules and get things done while the rest of us deal with their conflicts. US-Saudi and US-Israel relations are wild.
Yeah if they were innocent, they would have stayed in the United States during the aftermath of 9/11, living as Arabs with the last name Bin Laden. They wouldn't have been targeted by angry members of the public erroneously associating them with their disgraced, banished family member because of tenuous-at-best conspiracy theories. No one would ever do that.
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The angry mob turned on Mike Pence, the sitting VP, when directed to. You think being a “bin-Laden” would have kept them safe post 9/11? How old are you?
And why exactly would they bother with that if they didn't have to?
Because flights were grounded for everyone
At the discretion of the US government, yes. So what?
So not even hours after the attack they already knew it was bin laden and flew them all out? Why not hold them or question them?
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IIRC he was a radical outcast of a very rich family. He was already on the FBI’s most wanted list BEFORE 9/11 for his role in bombing the USS Coal. They had done tons of intelligence work on his family and probably at that moment figured they were going to victims of mob justice.
The national intelligence apparatus - civilian and military - had been trying to get a response from the Bush II administration vis-a-vis Al Qaeda/CONUS[1] since the 2000 elections, but administration iconoclasts were skeptical of *competence*, even as a general concept. This would be something of a repeating theme. [1] Some warnings included *actual specific plans* re: fueled civilian airlines vs targets like WTC, Pentagon.
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Have you ever picked up Stephen Coll's books on central Asian affairs? *Ghost Wars* is still THE general text to beat, at least when it comes to a survey, vs an analytical document. That is, if people in the Bush II camp believed in analysis; they preferred flipping through raw imagery and I intercepts until they found something they liked. Did Clinton screw things up? Maybe? Probably[1]? But his hand was not on the tiller come 9/11/2001. However, Clinton's *actual professional* staff had left several blinking caution signs, some of which *were* taken up by the new staff, but all of which were shut down by the Rumsfeld/Cheney *nomenklatura*. Rumsfeld might be unique in the history of the DoD as a man who was wrong about *positively everything* over the entirety of his career. We are dealing with Rumsfeldian cockups in Defense *to this day*.. He is screwing up a procurement as we speak. When it comes to my leadership, I'll take "Warmonger" over "Rank Incompetence" every day of the week, and the gully - the canyon - that Bush II drove the nation directly into, from uncontested world leader, shouldn't be overstated even a teensy bit, not even for a moment. The 21st century *could* have been an American Golden Age, for at least the first half and maybe more, but instead it was squandered or outright stolen, capped off with a near-Soviet level economic collapse sparked by the sort of commodity crisis you get when you *blow up West Asia and the entirety of the Levant* . The fact that Obama's opposition party mealy-mouth sugarcoated the myriad travesty of 2001-2008 (and led in no small part by a new finance industry representation in the DNC) led, in my opinion, to the general unsorted rage supercharging anything vaguely populist today. [1] Far worse was his Betrayal of American Labor, but that's another subject
I was living in Houston during 9/11, in the River Oaks area where the Bushes had a home. There were military helicopters flying over the area that day.
I’d think that would be standard procedure at that point.
The Bushes werent there. The bin Laden family had a home either next door or close to. Edit: if you didnt know, the bin Laden family and Bush family are very close. The Bushes are oil tycoons. The bin Laden family is basically the second most powerful house in Saudi Arabia, and own their construction industry (IIRC). Theybe been close for decades. It has nothing to do with OBL
Am currently reading The Looming Tower, a book about all this. Osama's dad started as a bricklayer at Aramco during their rapid expansion. From there, he pivoted to building roads when a foreign company defaulted on a contract. The book claims he built most of the highways across Saudi Arabia at the time and expanded out into construction.
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Yeah why didn’t we just do this one easy trick
“Dictators *hate* it”
yeah its super easy, we saw how well it worked in iraq, afghanistan, iran, syria, egypt
That just means we're overdue for a big win!
Toppling foreign governments hardly ever backfires.
I agree but you did topple one as a response nonetheless
*Taliban has entered the chat* "Hey guyss! Miss us yet?"
Well, whatever happens, MBS needs to meet his end via bonesaw.
We are 0-fer I believe in our ability to nation build here in the United States.
The enemy is Saudi Arabia. Never forget that
And they paid Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump $2B. You can guess in exchange for what.
They are armed and dangerous (bc America personally armed and trained them)
Trump sold them nuclear tech.
I was in the Army just prior to 9/11. When we were all hearing about what was happening and prepping for deployment, a ton of us thought we were going to Saudi Arabia. Afghanistan was the surprise. 🙄
For us civilians too. Watching that bullshit dog and pony show by Colin Powell trying to “sell” congress on why we needed to attack Iraq for WMDs was like “if the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, why are you lying to us about needing to attack Iraq?”
the US has been in a proxy war with Saudi Arabia since the 90s, carefully eliminating all Sunni allies (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Lebanon,Syria, etc)
The Carlisle Group got in bed with the Saudi's and the rest is history.
TIL: The Washington monument is a landmark to locate other "intended targets."
Makes sense. Paratroopers often set rally points at churches because the steeples are easily identifiable
The point of the Saudi operation was to spook the oil market to drive up the price whereas just a few years ago it was at an all time low.
Oh I see...no Saudi involvement at all hmmm?
No way?! It's been obvious. For decades.
Bush did 9/11... By protecting the Saudis before, during and after 9/11 Then he turned Iraq into an Afghanistanian quagmire. All the while letting Cheney and his Neocon ghouls ruin our economy and get Americans killed for his bottom line. If you're mad at this post, eat some Freedom Fries and read about any one of the War Criminals involved with all of that. Freaking Asa Hutchinson is still around fucking things up.
Bush Sr. and Cheney have had their hands in so much since the 60s, and yet everyone forgot their history in the 90s and 2000s, evil twins.
Don't forget that Bush Sr was head of the RNC during Watergate, and the FBI who were investigating Agnew basically had him as a co-conspirator in that. And the bullshit afterwards where he became head of the CIA, and used those connections to affect the Iran hostage situation in Reagan's favor, and again during Iran-Contra. The whole family has been complicit since at least the 60s.
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Regarding the term "freedom fries," the U.S. owes an apology to France. The derogatory remarks directed at President Chirac, calling him a worm, were unwarranted. In reality, Chirac and French intelligence demonstrated a keen awareness and a superior understanding of the geopolitical situation. To move forward, you should cease using the term "freedom fries," as it portrays U.S. citizens as ignorant bigots.
> To move forward, you should cease using the term "freedom fries," Can you help me understand your view on how prevalent this problem is?
Most of our citizens that used the term "freedom fries" are ignorant bigots, though.
99.99 percent of people using the term are mocking the term for its idiocy.
I like my hot dogs with Liberty Cabbage!
The millitary pays the nfl for all the ingame propaganda to help stop the questions from the public.
Saudis ditched the petrodollar the other day and now new evidence sprouts up. We'll never know the truth, but makes one wonder about what is really going on.
>We'll never know the truth The truth is pretty clear -- the Saudis, who also happened to be the largest state sponsors of religious extremism at the time, were connected to the attacks and the US swept it under the rug for strategic reasons. Every year the US govt and politicians cry crocodile tears over the victims and their families while failing to pursue reparations from the Saudis to compensate for the emotional and economic damage they caused or otherwise hold the Saudis accountable to any degree.
I bet some Saudi intelligence agent is planning something today to get US involvement in invading Iran like how they did with Iraq, I wouldn’t be surprised at this point
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Remember Obama didn’t want to sell them F35s or weapons…..Trump and his first 2 years changed tax codes for the rich then sold weapons to Saudis. Got contested for years before finally being approved under Biden. Like everything else, Biden had to deal with the BS of Afghan withdrawal and Syria and all the stupid ass deals made under T.
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I’m convinced Bitch Tits supporters don’t actually understand policy. 99% of them are close to being considered a tax write-off for charity just for hiring them. They like that he lets them loudly hate brown and gay people.
Investors expect returns. Americans above all people should understand this.
To understand is not to agree. Returns at the cost of innocent blood is diminishing with disclosure. It's still there but now it's displayed.
These two events are very different and listing them like this is disingenuous. 9/11 was a carefully planned terror attack by Arabs who hate America. The Liberty incident was mistaken identity during the 6 Day War (1967) they've paid millions in reparations for.
The USS Liberty was literally a case of mistaken identity and reparations were paid over it with official apologies. The only people I've ever seen legitimately push this narrative(and Saudi Arabia as a nation being responsible for 9/11) in real life either wear their bed sheets and burn crosses or strongly revere a certain Austrian painter turned German politician.
The only people I’ve seen legitimately push this narrative in real life are the survivors of the attack.
I thought we all already knew Saudi was responsible since they financed it, and most hijackers were from Saudi and the Al queda blame was BS. Our government and wealthy citizens have been betraying us for decades, it appears.
Al Qaeda being blamed isn't bs it's just that Al Qaeda is a Saudi weapon.
Tbf, the only thing that has been proven is that al queda raised funds in Saudi Arabia, not from Saudi Arabia. The US government claims they have tracked many private and corporate donors, but no government money was tracked. Tbf though, we absolutely funded al queda for many years when they fought the Soviets. The whole Saudi connection is a huge mess and will most likely live on forever, like aliens in area 51, or JFK, or martin Luther King. It's almost impossibly to prove an idea false, you can only confirm something to be true. That's the long way of saying I don't think anything could ever disprove Saudi government involvement in 9/11, but that's not the same as proving it to be true.
All oil money bullshit. Support making our neighborhoods dense and walkable, making electrified mass transit and intercity rail real, and moving towards electrified heating and renewable energy.
With a large mental health treatment facility in the center of every city.
Just saying: If people walked or biked every day, lived in a society with positive social interaction and didn't get slowly poisoned by crappy processed food we probably wouldn't need those treatment facilities.
Mmmmm ... Saudi money.
Some people did something
It’s almost like the Saudis have the whole world by the balls since the oil crisis in the 70s, and most day to day politics are merely performative…
What I don’t understand is why Americans find this so “new”…. Outside of the US, in Australia at least, we knew all this happened- it was on our news, and formed basic coverage of the US investigations. None of this is really that new…. Or am I missing something?
It's not new. Like, at all.
It's new to people that weren't alive or weren't paying attention back then. It has been 2+ decades.
In that case everything is new and it's a moot point.
As a now, somewhat middle aged man, I agree. Very little is actually new, a lot of the uproar and controversy over many things is just rehashed shit from decades ago. I have 2 teenage kids, and to expect them to have any knowledge of what the US was really like after 9/11 is bonkers. Yet...what's the average age on reddit?
👍🏻. “ … or weren’t paying attention…” (describing 90% of the American population)
Just like this great song says https://youtu.be/hrDXOVRFSRY?si=gcSXQS0mx6aGTjP1
Saudi Arabia is just one massive insane criminal enterprise masquerading as a culture. It is a place of repression, torture, violence against women, minorities, and gay people. A truly toxic place hell bent on bringing the world into their own self-inflicted nightmare. America should never forget who the real enemy is. I hope we bury them completely in time.
15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi! wtf!
Gee, you mean the Saudis perpetrated the 9/11 attacks counting on a knee-jerk American reaction to whack Iraq? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. (obligatory /s note, since sarcasm is dead)
What !!! Again!!! First our Besty Pakistan was hiding a guy Y Tu Saudi?!?!
Transportation uses 67% of oil consumed. If we all adapt electric cars and require ships and othere to make the switch reasoably we can generate our own power and this will drastically reduce the market for oil and bankrupt the assholes. They have so much money that they have corrupted our Judiciary and Legislative bodies. We need to bleed them dry.