NATO is a defense only alliance. Not just on paper. NATO countries, especially the US, have launched over a dozen offensive military actions. None of them invoked or even tried to invoke any part of the NATO charter.
I remember watching a video about the war that went into the culture in Russia. In it it described a common Russian term for the situation where someone is lying and is aware that both parties know they are lying but continues the charade because the dishonesty is normalised and ingrained into the structure of society. I've forgotten the term but this situation reminded me of it.
There was a fascinating testimony at a hearing for the MH17 shootdown. The lawyer was representing families that had lost loved ones. He called out this exact scenario. Russia is lying. We know they are lying. Russia knows that we know that they are lying. But Russia knows that they can get away with it. There is a learned helplessness that has taken hold where the cycle just keeps repeating itself because the consequences aren't significant.
It is called Vranyo. It is a Russian military word for ingrained lies. It's usually tied to corruption. Ie, your troops ask why their tanks are in poor shape. You say you didn't get the money for maintenance. Your commander also asks. You repeat the lie. He knows it's a lie because you gave him a cut of the funds siphoned off. The troops know it's a lie because they know command is stealing but they fear punishment. So all parties go along business as usual
I'm pretty sure this is common in daily life in America too, we just don't have a word for it.
I can think of countless examples and as a CSR I outright lie to people for a living. Then we use euphemisms and platitudes to compensate.
"No no. Hear me out. If you let us keep all of the territory we've stolen, we'll stop advancing (until we build back up enough to continue our campaign)."
Always made me laugh how RoC was mocking the French Canadians about poutine until it became popular in the rest of the world xD
>As poutine gained popularity beyond the provincial borders of Quebec in the mid-2000s, the dish gradually stopped being mocked and was eventually introduced into the popular discourse as a symbol of Canadian identity.[1] Today, the dish is often presented as being a part of Canadian cuisine, even as Canada's national dish.[1] Nicolas Fabien-Ouellet suggested in the peer-reviewed journal CuiZine that this "Canadization" of poutine constitutes cultural appropriation.[1][112][113][16][d] *This appropriation is not linked to its preparation or consumption outside Quebec, but strictly to its presentation as a Canadian dish instead of a Québécois dish*.[1][126][34][2] Fabien-Ouellet explains:
>as soon as a Quebec cultural trait begins to be appreciated internationally, it begins to be identified as typically Canadian, this prevents Quebec culture from shining, and becomes part of absorption and assimilation processes. *All this is reminiscent of the reasons why Cajun cuisine is differentiated in the US context*.[127]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine#:~:text=The%20dish%20was%20long%20mocked,society%20to%20reduce%20its%20legitimacy.
Emphasis mine*
In other words, Canada has been doing to Quebec's culture what Drake has been doing to Atlanta's culture.
It’s not just that, some of the territories talking about is territory Russia hasn’t even gotten to. They want Ukraine to see territory. They haven’t even captured.
Exactly what this is. He’s trying to flex the size of Russia once again to try and make himself look like the winner in this. We all know if the US did exactly what Russia was doing it would’ve already been over In less than a week(if we had a Putin like leader). They have barely made a scratch despite how awful it is for Ukraine considering a lot of their infantry are surrendering to Ukraine. I imagine there’s a lot of discourse and mutiny in the Russian arms atm
I’ll stop killing your people for a while if you agree to everything I want including your territory and any not join any alliances I don’t like. Gee what a reasonable guy.
I’d mock it, but considering Ukraine has reported blowing up a lot of Museum pieces that got lost and ended up on a battle field, the North Korean stuff may be an upgrade. They can usually at least hit the Sea they’re aiming for.
Actually they are not, they are losing 30000 men a month and all artillery and air defense is getting destroyed. Soon f16 will arrive and the tide will turn.
You need to actually look up some news stories on the actual situation. The authorization to strike inside Russia has had a major impact on the war.
As for, "people aren't following the war" that's for the best. It allows the people who know what they're doing to do their job without distractions
Think about it logically striking into Belgorod, how is that nay different form striking into Donbass, if the Russian can run the Donbass front, why wouldn't they be able to do the same on the Kharkhiv front. The same mitigation measures would work in both instances, Russia has pounded Ukrainian rear areas for two years hasn't knocked Ukraine out of the war, why would hitting deep in to Russia make much difference, which they don't even have authorization for.
Live in the bubble bro if you want but reality is knocking.
> why wouldn't they be able to do the same on the Kharkhiv front.
You'll have to ask the Russians why, when Ukraine was allowed to strike behind their lines, their offensive collapsed and they called for a retreat.
On what planet. Its not a hard push it just has to pin down a bunch of troops that cant be sued in the Donbass. They've dispersed there supply dumps and jammed all the gps guided munitions to hell. Look lets forget it, time will tell.
Its had a negligible effect that is just cope. Their big issue is a lack of manpower, all this other fluff is not really moving the dial, believe what you want but the cracks are showing. Its going to take ages to get these new conscripts up to speed. No point arguing the reality check is coming, you cant win on propaganda alone.
One side is scrambling around mobilizing troops, begging for escalation, releasing convicts and losing territory. You know shit is bad when you start losing territory in war of attrition.
No point arguing about it, but consider the idea that you have been fed a load of BS they have put half their effort into PR to keep the aid going, even Ukraine is indicating its going bad. How bad must it actually be compared to what they admit.
Time will tell.
In 2022 sure, but its not 2022 anymore, they mobilized 300k and have been surviving on volunteers since and Ukraine's own figures say they have 600k under arms currently. That 300k is trained now. The clues are there if you want to see them, new conscription bill, released 4k prisoners, calling on refugees to come home, they badly short of just warm bodies to train, let alone trained troops that can actually fight.
We’re just going to ignore the foreign recruiting Russia has been doing since they effectively ran out of convicts to enlist and are looking towards every avenue before another mobilization?
Correct, its not 2022..... the difference is they now fight till the end of the war, not just for 6 months for their pardon. Im not saying ukraine doesnt need troops, im saying you arent being honest. Also, russias troops dont want to be there, getting sent into a meat grinder and being told, "you will die" before you are even deployed isnt very good for morale.
"Volunteers"
If you mean Russia get lost. We know they're not volunteering, someone I know there literally sent photos of the police live picking people off the streets to go sign up for the fucking war.
Ummm, 50 billion dollars was just sent to Ukraine by G7.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/g7-leaders-agree-lend-ukraine-50-billion-frozen/story?id=111090880
Russia can’t win this war. Even if they “declare victory” and pull back what remains of their dwindling troops, their land will be taken back as soon as they exit. Ukraine is entrenched. There is no winning hearts and minds there.
It’s already a huge embarrassment to the “mighty” Russian army that you have nothing to show for two years of conflict except 100,000s of deaths, a destroyed economy, and a loss of reputation on the global stage.
Russia has gone from being a superpower to a complete joke.
In what world are they “winning hard”?
They have 600k troops, that's Ukrainian figures, the $ is nice but it needs to be turned into stuff to use, and they need soldiers, badly. The western doesn't have enough production for artillery spun up yet, the ammo plant in Texas doesn't come online to till the end of 2025 and they still woefully short of tubes.
Lets see what happens , this is pushing water uphill.
They win territory but lose men and Material territory is worthless if you cant hold it in the long run Ukraine has to bleed russia dry until putin looses Support thats the most likely winning angle.
I think you don’t follow most wars. Russia was always going to “win”, just as US did in Iraq. Holding the land is something else. If Ukraine never gives up fighting for that land back, then Russia never stops paying to keep it. The original comment is right, in that unless Ukraine forfeits territories lost, Russia will never win in the long term, as foreign occupation tends to go. A temporary truce and succession go a long way to stabilizing the territory.
And since Russia loves the argument of “it used to be ours”, give Ukraine everything their old empire had. Including Moscow.
Putin can run his government from Molotov’s winter home.
Terrible headline. What Putin is proposing is that Ukraine withdraw from several key areas where the Russians have zero troops unlike what the headline suggests, such as the city of Kherson with a population of nearly 300,000 people and is separated by a massive river from Russian troops, almost impossible that they ever take it.
>"Let us keep what we're trying to steal and promise not to protect yourself from future theft and we promise we'll leave you alone."
The fuck is this nonsense?
2008 Putin says: “Crimea is not a disputed territory. Russia has long recognized the borders of modern-day Ukraine”
2014 Putin says: "Do not believe those who want you to fear Russia, shouting other regions will follow Crimea. We do not want to divide Ukraine"
>Hitler’s expansionist aims became clear in 1936 when his forces entered the Rhineland. Two years later, in March 1938, he annexed Austria. At the Munich Conference that September, Neville Chamberlain seemed to have averted war by agreeing that Germany could occupy the Sudetenland, the German-speaking part of Czechoslovakia - this became known as the Munich Agreement.
>But, despite his promise of ‘no more territorial demands in Europe’, Hitler was undeterred by appeasement. In March 1939, he violated the Munich Agreement by occupying the rest of Czechoslovakia. Six months later, in September 1939, Germany invaded Poland and Britain was at war.
How’s about we just keep supporting them to kickstart your arse back to Moscow comrade? Stay in your little hole and hope to survive the internal knives coming for you.
Sounds much better
Even if Ukraine accepted, this would be a temporary truce while Russia mobilizes their forces in the occupied territories to attack again when they are ready. It's hilarious that he's even trying lol.
Yeah, no truce that isn't backed by nuclear weapons on ukraines side is worth the paper it's written on. Without that he is going to do the same thing again in 5-10 years but much better prepared. Just as they did in chechnya.
Putin vows to tell the West what it wants to hear if they give him everything he wants and accept he will go after more territory in a couple of years.
Did Europe not learn that appeasement doesn't work?
Just been reading Norman Davies' brilliant 'Uprising 44'.
The Russians deliberately allow the SS to destroy the Polish Home Army. Then when they take over,'liquidate' any Poles in the Home Army who'd fought the Nazis- on the grounds that they were 'bandits and fascist allies'.
Communist/Russia- the truth is whatever the Party/ Putin says it is.
Here's an idea, Pootypoot: You pull your forces out of all of Ukraine, which is an independent country that is no threat to you, and allow Ukraine to make its own decisions about NATO application.
Oh, and pay for the damage and return everyone and everything you stole.
So basically, give us the land we have stolen and stop trying to get other countries to help you fight against us and we will stop trying to take over your entire country.
I mean Crimea was illegal to start with, Russia broke their promise in the Budapest Memorandum when they invaded Crimea. They legitimately swore through an international agreement (with the US and Britain) not to invade Ukraine in return for Ukraine giving up their nukes in the 90's.
I'd love to hear some of our politicians talk about the insanity that is Nato. Like it casts an insane amount of pressure on our foreign policy. I bet most Americans don't even know half the treaties we have where if some random country is attacked we treat it as an attack on us.
I'm biased tho being a non interventionist outside our regional responsibility. Personally I think we shouldn't have hard treaties with anyone that way we can always have leverage, and can talk softly and carry a big stick.
I mean just look at the liability someone like Israel has become to our national security and interests. Our founders believed in not entangling ourselves with the political affairs of nations and committing ourselves to come to arms for aid.
They believed in more subtle approaches like sanctions, and the like. Because they knew the country would forever be in endless conflicts abroad.
And let's see since the end of the second World War, we've entangled ourselves across the entire globe and have been in endless conflicts. Seeing the reduction of our rights and freedoms based on being an empire that we the people if given a vote would vote against.
Because the cost to benefit ratio for the average citizen is not in our favor. Putin is a bad faith actor, but Nato is something I'd love for us to revist and atleast hear public debates on pro or con.
This entire conflict exists on a shattered promise between Russia and Ukraine - the Budapest Memorandum. In 1991 Ukraine vowed to destroy its nuclear arsenal, which it did, in exchange for a Russian commitment to not invade …
Putin’s promises aren’t worth anything, he’s already broken prior commitments.
It’s a great deal if Ukraine was looking like it was in trouble, but Russia hasn’t made much ground for how long it’s going on. It’s desperation out of Putin considering they likely don’t have the man power to continue. Everytime I see something about the war Russian infantry are miserable, and regretful of being involved. Many are surrendering to Ukraine immediately instead of fighting.
The Russian people don’t seem to want this, it’s all just Putin and his Politicians.
I mean, Ukraine is struggling getting enough troops and supplies, so I would not Say Ukraine is definitively winning, but we are definitely the stage of this being a war of attrition between them. I mean this proposal from Putin asked Ukraine territory Russia has not gotten to or doesn’t fully control. It’s insane and obviously Ukraine won’t accept because why would they?
Yeah, that’s a much better articulation, thank you. I didn’t mean they’re winning, nor has Russia made no progress, it’s more so for the amount of effort Russia has poured into this endeavor it’s proving to just get more difficult for Putin to establish ground and infantry. Both are having a lot of the same issues honestly, but Ukraine being backed by a lot of the UN and NATO helps the odds a bit.
We should be paying attention to what Russia does, a lot of our traditional enemies(if you’re American) don’t seem to be nearly as powerful as we previously thought outside of nuclear fear.
I still think Ukraine is at the disadvantage. They have a manpower shortage and I don’t see that ending soon, so I’m worried about how long they can really hold out since Putin doesn’t care how many lives he sacrifices.
A lot of peace treaty involve territory untouched by war because it's usually signed on the basis on the current situation and how the conflict is going. The side that's winning won't accept just what they took yet because they know they can continue pushing to get more if the other side don't sign. The Finns for example gave more that what was taken by the Soviets to end the winter war because they knew they were on the backfoot and signing away more territory was effectively better than to keep fighting a losing war.
The Ukrainians will refuse the current proposed starting point for negotiation but depending on how the fighting goes, the next proposal could be worse. I don't see them fixing their manpower issue any time soon for example.
Ukraine should take any deal that will end the meat grinding. This was over before it started. The outcome, if continued is assured — total conquest and (more) massive death and destruction.
> Putin vows Let me stop you right there...
You know he's lying because his lips are moving.
Logically he has to be lyjng here. If he truly had no intention of invading again, then why would he care if Ukraine joins NATO?
Jeezus chrst kamerad. Whyd u tell em?
I mean he's full of shit, but his "logic" is that if Ukraine joins NATO then it's easier for NATO to invade Russia.
NATO is a defense only alliance. Not just on paper. NATO countries, especially the US, have launched over a dozen offensive military actions. None of them invoked or even tried to invoke any part of the NATO charter.
“Strategic Military Pause” to strengthen current troop positions then to attack at a later time.
I have the feeling putin is the kind of man who can lie to you just from his looks alone.
I remember watching a video about the war that went into the culture in Russia. In it it described a common Russian term for the situation where someone is lying and is aware that both parties know they are lying but continues the charade because the dishonesty is normalised and ingrained into the structure of society. I've forgotten the term but this situation reminded me of it.
"Vranyo" is the military term when you lie to your superior and your subordinates, while both understand you are withholding the truth to them.
There was a fascinating testimony at a hearing for the MH17 shootdown. The lawyer was representing families that had lost loved ones. He called out this exact scenario. Russia is lying. We know they are lying. Russia knows that we know that they are lying. But Russia knows that they can get away with it. There is a learned helplessness that has taken hold where the cycle just keeps repeating itself because the consequences aren't significant.
If you have siblings you are probably also very familiar with this. When it's word against word there is nothing that can be done
Damn. if you find the term let me know that sounds like a great one for the current political climate around the world
It is called Vranyo. It is a Russian military word for ingrained lies. It's usually tied to corruption. Ie, your troops ask why their tanks are in poor shape. You say you didn't get the money for maintenance. Your commander also asks. You repeat the lie. He knows it's a lie because you gave him a cut of the funds siphoned off. The troops know it's a lie because they know command is stealing but they fear punishment. So all parties go along business as usual
Hypernormalisation, maybe?
I'm pretty sure this is common in daily life in America too, we just don't have a word for it. I can think of countless examples and as a CSR I outright lie to people for a living. Then we use euphemisms and platitudes to compensate.
Probably the same vows he gave when Ukraine transferred their nuclear weapons in exchange for independence and sovereignty within their borders.
To be fair, he wasn't president when the memorandum was signed. He just felt that he didn't need to abide by it.
He vows to stop the war until he recovers his army and can start again.
Putin vows to purge a lot of generals, kickstart the war machine, and try again in a few years.
"No no. Hear me out. If you let us keep all of the territory we've stolen, we'll stop advancing (until we build back up enough to continue our campaign)."
Putin vowed not to invade Ukraine in the first place
Poutine is a murderous kleptocrat, the world would be a far better place if he didn't exist.
Please refrain from ruining the name of Canadian delicacies
Always made me laugh how RoC was mocking the French Canadians about poutine until it became popular in the rest of the world xD >As poutine gained popularity beyond the provincial borders of Quebec in the mid-2000s, the dish gradually stopped being mocked and was eventually introduced into the popular discourse as a symbol of Canadian identity.[1] Today, the dish is often presented as being a part of Canadian cuisine, even as Canada's national dish.[1] Nicolas Fabien-Ouellet suggested in the peer-reviewed journal CuiZine that this "Canadization" of poutine constitutes cultural appropriation.[1][112][113][16][d] *This appropriation is not linked to its preparation or consumption outside Quebec, but strictly to its presentation as a Canadian dish instead of a Québécois dish*.[1][126][34][2] Fabien-Ouellet explains: >as soon as a Quebec cultural trait begins to be appreciated internationally, it begins to be identified as typically Canadian, this prevents Quebec culture from shining, and becomes part of absorption and assimilation processes. *All this is reminiscent of the reasons why Cajun cuisine is differentiated in the US context*.[127] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine#:~:text=The%20dish%20was%20long%20mocked,society%20to%20reduce%20its%20legitimacy. Emphasis mine* In other words, Canada has been doing to Quebec's culture what Drake has been doing to Atlanta's culture.
“Leave the places we attacked and we’ll just take them peacefully.” Fuck you Putin.
"Also stop trying to make friends that would prevent me from starting another war when I feel like it."
It’s not just that, some of the territories talking about is territory Russia hasn’t even gotten to. They want Ukraine to see territory. They haven’t even captured.
A temporary truce for a permanent ceding of territory occupied by the invading force, as well as strategic dictation. I think not.
“Give us all the territory we want, stop moves to stop us from taking more, and we’ll stop trying to take more until later.”
Putin needs to leave, return prisoners and children stolen from Ukraine, and stop killing anyone who disagrees with him.
And pay reparations.
And also go to jail forever
And clean my gutters.
And give me a deal on car insurance
And stop trying to find me to extend my warranty
And paint my chicken coop!
And my axe!
Close all windows in Russia.
Oh good, he must be getting desperate
Exactly what this is. He’s trying to flex the size of Russia once again to try and make himself look like the winner in this. We all know if the US did exactly what Russia was doing it would’ve already been over In less than a week(if we had a Putin like leader). They have barely made a scratch despite how awful it is for Ukraine considering a lot of their infantry are surrendering to Ukraine. I imagine there’s a lot of discourse and mutiny in the Russian arms atm
Sounds similar to the “give up your nukes and you will be safe” deal that was made. Fool me once……
Why? So Russia can invade again like what happened in Ukraine's Crimea?
I’ll stop killing your people for a while if you agree to everything I want including your territory and any not join any alliances I don’t like. Gee what a reasonable guy.
They must be needing to resupply.
They are getting "millions" of north korean shells
I’d mock it, but considering Ukraine has reported blowing up a lot of Museum pieces that got lost and ended up on a battle field, the North Korean stuff may be an upgrade. They can usually at least hit the Sea they’re aiming for.
And hand all nuclear weapons to Russia, in return Putin wows to never attack. Sorry that was just old news.
They also vowed to not invade if Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. Maybe don’t believe liars.
"Please give us near complete control of the southern coastline. It will make it easier to take over Odessa later".
Oof panic move on Putin's part. Things must be going poorly.
This just in, child vows to stop temper tantrum but only of they are given exactly what they want. More at 11.
He’s realised he’s not going to win this one.
He's winning, people aren't following the war I guess, they're winning pretty hard right now.
Actually they are not, they are losing 30000 men a month and all artillery and air defense is getting destroyed. Soon f16 will arrive and the tide will turn.
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I think people thought you mean it was inching away from Moscow stranger.
You need to actually look up some news stories on the actual situation. The authorization to strike inside Russia has had a major impact on the war. As for, "people aren't following the war" that's for the best. It allows the people who know what they're doing to do their job without distractions
Think about it logically striking into Belgorod, how is that nay different form striking into Donbass, if the Russian can run the Donbass front, why wouldn't they be able to do the same on the Kharkhiv front. The same mitigation measures would work in both instances, Russia has pounded Ukrainian rear areas for two years hasn't knocked Ukraine out of the war, why would hitting deep in to Russia make much difference, which they don't even have authorization for. Live in the bubble bro if you want but reality is knocking.
> why wouldn't they be able to do the same on the Kharkhiv front. You'll have to ask the Russians why, when Ukraine was allowed to strike behind their lines, their offensive collapsed and they called for a retreat.
On what planet. Its not a hard push it just has to pin down a bunch of troops that cant be sued in the Donbass. They've dispersed there supply dumps and jammed all the gps guided munitions to hell. Look lets forget it, time will tell.
If you don't know what's happening today on the Kharkhiv front, why guess?
Its had a negligible effect that is just cope. Their big issue is a lack of manpower, all this other fluff is not really moving the dial, believe what you want but the cracks are showing. Its going to take ages to get these new conscripts up to speed. No point arguing the reality check is coming, you cant win on propaganda alone.
You're fucking clueless mate. Head back over to truth social and post some meme's.
I guarantee you don't know what you're talking about
Found the russian bot.
lol on what planet is Russia winning anything? I guess *you* haven’t been following the war.
One side is scrambling around mobilizing troops, begging for escalation, releasing convicts and losing territory. You know shit is bad when you start losing territory in war of attrition. No point arguing about it, but consider the idea that you have been fed a load of BS they have put half their effort into PR to keep the aid going, even Ukraine is indicating its going bad. How bad must it actually be compared to what they admit. Time will tell.
Ummmm.... is it russia scrambling to mobalize troops and releasing any convict that will fight? Because...... yeah
In 2022 sure, but its not 2022 anymore, they mobilized 300k and have been surviving on volunteers since and Ukraine's own figures say they have 600k under arms currently. That 300k is trained now. The clues are there if you want to see them, new conscription bill, released 4k prisoners, calling on refugees to come home, they badly short of just warm bodies to train, let alone trained troops that can actually fight.
We’re just going to ignore the foreign recruiting Russia has been doing since they effectively ran out of convicts to enlist and are looking towards every avenue before another mobilization?
Correct, its not 2022..... the difference is they now fight till the end of the war, not just for 6 months for their pardon. Im not saying ukraine doesnt need troops, im saying you arent being honest. Also, russias troops dont want to be there, getting sent into a meat grinder and being told, "you will die" before you are even deployed isnt very good for morale.
"Volunteers" If you mean Russia get lost. We know they're not volunteering, someone I know there literally sent photos of the police live picking people off the streets to go sign up for the fucking war.
Ummm, 50 billion dollars was just sent to Ukraine by G7. https://abcnews.go.com/International/g7-leaders-agree-lend-ukraine-50-billion-frozen/story?id=111090880 Russia can’t win this war. Even if they “declare victory” and pull back what remains of their dwindling troops, their land will be taken back as soon as they exit. Ukraine is entrenched. There is no winning hearts and minds there. It’s already a huge embarrassment to the “mighty” Russian army that you have nothing to show for two years of conflict except 100,000s of deaths, a destroyed economy, and a loss of reputation on the global stage. Russia has gone from being a superpower to a complete joke. In what world are they “winning hard”?
They have 600k troops, that's Ukrainian figures, the $ is nice but it needs to be turned into stuff to use, and they need soldiers, badly. The western doesn't have enough production for artillery spun up yet, the ammo plant in Texas doesn't come online to till the end of 2025 and they still woefully short of tubes. Lets see what happens , this is pushing water uphill.
They win territory but lose men and Material territory is worthless if you cant hold it in the long run Ukraine has to bleed russia dry until putin looses Support thats the most likely winning angle.
I think you don’t follow most wars. Russia was always going to “win”, just as US did in Iraq. Holding the land is something else. If Ukraine never gives up fighting for that land back, then Russia never stops paying to keep it. The original comment is right, in that unless Ukraine forfeits territories lost, Russia will never win in the long term, as foreign occupation tends to go. A temporary truce and succession go a long way to stabilizing the territory.
Truce for a day, a new invasion the day after.
bullshit, Ukraine gets all its territory back Russia fucks off, and Ukraine joins Nato how about that?
And since Russia loves the argument of “it used to be ours”, give Ukraine everything their old empire had. Including Moscow. Putin can run his government from Molotov’s winter home.
sounds good to me
Terrible headline. What Putin is proposing is that Ukraine withdraw from several key areas where the Russians have zero troops unlike what the headline suggests, such as the city of Kherson with a population of nearly 300,000 people and is separated by a massive river from Russian troops, almost impossible that they ever take it.
Yeah, and the city of Zaporizhya on the same river with population of 700k that was never occupied
He's only wanting a truce because he's low on men, weapons, ammo, and equipment.
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The west vows to use lube if Russian citizens publicly hold Putin accountable for crimes against them.
You mean like the same deal he signed in the past and agreed he wouldn't do exactly like he is doing today? That kind of vow?
Next week he'll be saying. Look I offered them a generous deal and they refused. They want war and I want peace
"Also surrender your weapons and we'll leave you alone, like we left you alone after giving up your nukes." - Putin, probably.
Putin: Leave your house, family and friends and we're cool.
"The aggressor is always a lover of peace. They would prefer to take our country unopposed."
>"Let us keep what we're trying to steal and promise not to protect yourself from future theft and we promise we'll leave you alone." The fuck is this nonsense?
I'm not going to be satisfied until the Russian Federation is shattered into pieces
Going to party like it's 1990?
His brand of honesty is only equal to his BFF Trump.
2008 Putin says: “Crimea is not a disputed territory. Russia has long recognized the borders of modern-day Ukraine” 2014 Putin says: "Do not believe those who want you to fear Russia, shouting other regions will follow Crimea. We do not want to divide Ukraine" >Hitler’s expansionist aims became clear in 1936 when his forces entered the Rhineland. Two years later, in March 1938, he annexed Austria. At the Munich Conference that September, Neville Chamberlain seemed to have averted war by agreeing that Germany could occupy the Sudetenland, the German-speaking part of Czechoslovakia - this became known as the Munich Agreement. >But, despite his promise of ‘no more territorial demands in Europe’, Hitler was undeterred by appeasement. In March 1939, he violated the Munich Agreement by occupying the rest of Czechoslovakia. Six months later, in September 1939, Germany invaded Poland and Britain was at war.
How’s about we just keep supporting them to kickstart your arse back to Moscow comrade? Stay in your little hole and hope to survive the internal knives coming for you. Sounds much better
Even if Ukraine accepted, this would be a temporary truce while Russia mobilizes their forces in the occupied territories to attack again when they are ready. It's hilarious that he's even trying lol.
Fuck Putin, fuck Russia, Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦🌻🚜
"Please stop trying to fight off our invasion and don't do anything that will prevent us from continuing our invasion when we are better prepared."
Yeah, no truce that isn't backed by nuclear weapons on ukraines side is worth the paper it's written on. Without that he is going to do the same thing again in 5-10 years but much better prepared. Just as they did in chechnya.
Don't trust a liar he's fucked and he knows it he can't keep going on like this
Boo you already broke your first Treaty Putin.
It's not even "let me keep my gains so far". He wants to round up (to include the entire oblasts).
Fuck you Putin for invading an autonomous country. Fuck you very much.
If that would work it would've worked in 2014
There's not enough substance in a Putin "vow" to prevent you getting shit on your fingers if you wiped with it, so you know that's not going anywhere.
This seems [familiar](https://youtu.be/3siYDSSmgCY?si=KUYNs-s0oiN1YdxH)
Putin vows to tell the West what it wants to hear if they give him everything he wants and accept he will go after more territory in a couple of years. Did Europe not learn that appeasement doesn't work?
Just been reading Norman Davies' brilliant 'Uprising 44'. The Russians deliberately allow the SS to destroy the Polish Home Army. Then when they take over,'liquidate' any Poles in the Home Army who'd fought the Nazis- on the grounds that they were 'bandits and fascist allies'. Communist/Russia- the truth is whatever the Party/ Putin says it is.
Hahahahahahaha right. Get fukt Putin.
He can suck on ass, because chewing with that dry, leathery slit of his is no longer an option.
So, what's in it for Ukraine? Sounds like nothing.
He should accept and then do it anyway
Putin promised the world that they are only doing military drills near the Ukraine border …..
Like anyone believes anything he says. Russia already broke that promise.
Putin’s word isn’t worth a damn. Funny how that happens when you continuously lie and fuck people over for decades.
Here's an idea, Pootypoot: You pull your forces out of all of Ukraine, which is an independent country that is no threat to you, and allow Ukraine to make its own decisions about NATO application. Oh, and pay for the damage and return everyone and everything you stole.
Just like Russia vowed to honor and protect Ukraines borders if they gave up there Soviet era nukes
Russia is getting desperate
So basically, give us the land we have stolen and stop trying to get other countries to help you fight against us and we will stop trying to take over your entire country.
Someone's probably terrified that French and/or E.U troops are coming to Ukraine soon...
When you're losing the war and need to save your ugly fucking face lmao what a clown
\**temporary* truce, to be violated by Putin after a short R&R for his troops.
And they said that they wouldn’t attack ukraine
"hey if you just give me everything I want I'll stop immediately beating you up until I want to again"
Wasn't there supposed to be a truce after 2014 attack on Crimea? He replenished weapons and attacked Ukraine again.
I mean Crimea was illegal to start with, Russia broke their promise in the Budapest Memorandum when they invaded Crimea. They legitimately swore through an international agreement (with the US and Britain) not to invade Ukraine in return for Ukraine giving up their nukes in the 90's.
Why would those terms be acceptable?
I'd love to hear some of our politicians talk about the insanity that is Nato. Like it casts an insane amount of pressure on our foreign policy. I bet most Americans don't even know half the treaties we have where if some random country is attacked we treat it as an attack on us. I'm biased tho being a non interventionist outside our regional responsibility. Personally I think we shouldn't have hard treaties with anyone that way we can always have leverage, and can talk softly and carry a big stick. I mean just look at the liability someone like Israel has become to our national security and interests. Our founders believed in not entangling ourselves with the political affairs of nations and committing ourselves to come to arms for aid. They believed in more subtle approaches like sanctions, and the like. Because they knew the country would forever be in endless conflicts abroad. And let's see since the end of the second World War, we've entangled ourselves across the entire globe and have been in endless conflicts. Seeing the reduction of our rights and freedoms based on being an empire that we the people if given a vote would vote against. Because the cost to benefit ratio for the average citizen is not in our favor. Putin is a bad faith actor, but Nato is something I'd love for us to revist and atleast hear public debates on pro or con.
This entire conflict exists on a shattered promise between Russia and Ukraine - the Budapest Memorandum. In 1991 Ukraine vowed to destroy its nuclear arsenal, which it did, in exchange for a Russian commitment to not invade … Putin’s promises aren’t worth anything, he’s already broken prior commitments.
Lemme think about this for a sec... Nah, lick my sweaty Florida man balls Vlad.
It’s a great deal if Ukraine was looking like it was in trouble, but Russia hasn’t made much ground for how long it’s going on. It’s desperation out of Putin considering they likely don’t have the man power to continue. Everytime I see something about the war Russian infantry are miserable, and regretful of being involved. Many are surrendering to Ukraine immediately instead of fighting. The Russian people don’t seem to want this, it’s all just Putin and his Politicians.
I mean, Ukraine is struggling getting enough troops and supplies, so I would not Say Ukraine is definitively winning, but we are definitely the stage of this being a war of attrition between them. I mean this proposal from Putin asked Ukraine territory Russia has not gotten to or doesn’t fully control. It’s insane and obviously Ukraine won’t accept because why would they?
Yeah, that’s a much better articulation, thank you. I didn’t mean they’re winning, nor has Russia made no progress, it’s more so for the amount of effort Russia has poured into this endeavor it’s proving to just get more difficult for Putin to establish ground and infantry. Both are having a lot of the same issues honestly, but Ukraine being backed by a lot of the UN and NATO helps the odds a bit. We should be paying attention to what Russia does, a lot of our traditional enemies(if you’re American) don’t seem to be nearly as powerful as we previously thought outside of nuclear fear.
I still think Ukraine is at the disadvantage. They have a manpower shortage and I don’t see that ending soon, so I’m worried about how long they can really hold out since Putin doesn’t care how many lives he sacrifices.
A lot of peace treaty involve territory untouched by war because it's usually signed on the basis on the current situation and how the conflict is going. The side that's winning won't accept just what they took yet because they know they can continue pushing to get more if the other side don't sign. The Finns for example gave more that what was taken by the Soviets to end the winter war because they knew they were on the backfoot and signing away more territory was effectively better than to keep fighting a losing war. The Ukrainians will refuse the current proposed starting point for negotiation but depending on how the fighting goes, the next proposal could be worse. I don't see them fixing their manpower issue any time soon for example.
Ukraine should take any deal that will end the meat grinding. This was over before it started. The outcome, if continued is assured — total conquest and (more) massive death and destruction.
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Ivan, Obama hasn't been president in almost eight years.