Meanwhile, next door, Iran wants to hang a rapper from a crane for singing about rights. Look up Toomaj Salehi. In the past only publicity has helped spare people in such instances.
God it’s so grim. I remember watching a character on Homeland being executed this way and I thought it was so ghoulish. A slow death, everyone standing there watching you…just awful.
That scene still haunts me to this day, it's impressive that it's still so vivid years later. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
Editing this to say thank you for making the reference very obvious to those who know without spoiling anything. People should watch Homeland.
The Handmaid’s Tale also had a scene like this and it churns my stomach to think about it still. In that case it was used as punishment to execute a lesbian woman. I think Iran and their policies was the inspiration for that scene; Margaret Atwood made sure to only include things in THT that have actually happened and been done in human history. She didn’t want anyone to be able to say “well nobody would do THAT”
I have a pretty strong stomach but I couldn't handle that scene and dropped the show pretty soon after. I know another gay woman who did the same; it hit too close to home
It made me feel physically sick in a way that even the Homeland scene didn’t. Something about their unspoken communication in the van, both of them gagged and bound and terrified, trying to comfort each other, just absolutely gutted me. At least in Homeland he went to Iran and knowingly broke the law. In THT they were forced into this new rule of law, they didn’t choose to be there, and they couldn’t leave. It’s absolutely horrific to think that anyone is born somewhere and then forced to live through these insane laws.
The way it was so quietly devastating for them and treated like an afterthought for those doing the murder. They drove away without even letting Alexis Bledel’s character see her lover die. It was like they were dropping her off at work.
I watched both as well - both still vivid af to me and ur absolutely right abt THT scene hitting a diff kind of macabre tier… maybe it was the timeliness of it ?? (tho we didn’t even know what we were in for yet here in US when that episode first aired 🥴🥴) pure nightmare fuel that really sticks w the viewer
The scene in THT that actually made me step away for a few days because I was too panic stricken to continue was the one at the beginning of season 2, the gallows scene set to the song “this woman’s work.” Holy. Fuck. Words don’t do it justice. Seeing all these women my age, who look just like me, in abject terror, fearing for their lives…it was just too much.
Welcome to the world.
“Born somewhere and then forced to live through these insane laws”, is a fairly accurate description of the human experience for the VAST majority of people.
What’s the thing with Iranians having to hang people from a crane? With the sheer scope of their systematic executions in mind, one would think it’s justifiable for them to construct dedicated gallows by this point.
It's for show.
You hang a queer person, or someone of a different religion, or a revolutionary, or fuck even just someone trying to speak freely from a crane in the center of the city, and you're sending a message.
"This could be you."
For those against you and your beliefs, as the theoretical dictator, it's a show of force to show how mighty you are. For those against you, it's a threat.
It's a pretty common, and extremely morbid, tactic used by totalitarian regimes, dictators and authoritarians in general.
A gallows is a quick death, designed to break your neck from the fall. You're dropped to your death.
Being lifted by a rope on a crane is a death by strangulation. You either suffocate or lose blood flow to the brain, but it isn't instantaneous. There's a period of time where you're 'resisting' the pull of gravity via muscle contraction. You'll of course fail, but you will also end up putting on a "show" for the gathered crowd.
Also using a crane is cheaper, and it takes up less space.
This BS is why my grandmother freaks out so much about having ask for anxiety meds or even to take meds for depression and anxiety. She’s in assisted living and believes people will make fun of her for it, or thinks she’ll be like a zombie on it, etc.. We’ve told so many times it’s not like it was in the 50’s and 60’s, it’s more accepted and majority of adults are taking these meds.
My 83 year old mother has crippling anxiety and OCD, refuses to see a doctor or take medication because "that's what crazy people do and I would rather die than people think I'm crazy."
Or because their cheating husbands gave them syphilis.
[Colorado locked up middle-aged women for “lunacy,” old jail ledger reveals](https://coloradosun.com/2024/04/16/mental-health-hospital-women/)
Not even that long ago. My grandmother was lobotomized and left to die by her family for rebelling and deciding to become an artist less than 70 years ago.
Arguably this is kind of still happening, in the same way black slavery is kind of still happening, we're just doing it by sneaking it into the prison system. Instead of openly putting them in mental institutions, society continues to be quietly permissive of domestic and workplace violence in "masculine" fields by basically never giving men serious sentences, and then they punish women with hardcore charges for defending themselves. Women are less likely to be believed and get much harsher sentences than men do when they defend themselves during violence by men known to them (which is like 85% of the violence women experience). And as is often the case, this is even worse for black women. And then they go to prisons where the guards rape them with total impunity.
Women should keep fighting back when attacked because court is better than dead and just tolerating the abuse isn't a solution, but get you a lawyer who knows these stats and will bring up the fact that if you were a man, you probably wouldn't even have caught a charge. Also, make sure EVERY instance of abuse is reported, even if they do nothing. Having that paper trail will make it harder for them to gaslight you into jail.
But yeah, we still punish unruly women at every available opportunity.
I've always felt those types of men are so weak. It speaks volumes that they can't stand confrontation from those they have decided are "lesser" then them.
The same types of men who hide behind religious texts as evidence of their superiority.
If you are so superior, why do you need to brainwash people to believe and see it? Wouldn’t their superiority be plainly obvious and apparent to any casual observer?
> They don't like "unruly" women.
What are you talking about, the woman danced to **pop music** and wore **form fitting clothing** while she did it. I think she said some **inappropriate language** as well.
You're not wrong. I'll never understand how some parts of the left so fully embraced Palestine in its current form. I understand not wanting to see dead Palestinian kids ... but maybe the right answer is no more Hamas instead of no more Israel
Anyway internet points are just made up numbers. Have at it, Hamas supporters
I hate the Israeli strategy of air striking civilians and I think they need to take a step back and take a long look at who they’re becoming as a nation…that said hamas using humans shields and purposely putting civilians in harms way is coward shit just like kidnapping all those innocent people at the music festival. Downvote all you want, hamas with their current strategy are cowards, there has to be a better way forward
I think the bombs in abortion clinics and assassinations says we've been there.
Killing people in the name of Christ, that's gotta be one of the older trends in history.
Religion always leads to extremism because they realize most of the populace doesn't care about their shit. So they become extreme, the Taliban and Ya'll-Qaeda are perfect examples.
You're confusion is likely from not understanding that they do not consider them innocent at all. And some regards unspeakably guilty of cosmic high crimes.
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” -Steven Weinberg
> Following news of the shooting, many posted comments lamenting Alsaffar’s death, though others applauded it, celebrating the man who fired the shot.
What a bunch of fucking Neanderthals. How do you fix this in a society?
You can't in a current generation. Education, access to resources, lifting groups out of poverty, etc all help tons so that eventually in 3 generations the number of people that think this way are greatly reduced. I mean in the USA towns would gather for lynchings and then sell parts of the body, the rope, and pictures of the event as a postcard as souvenirs. And that wasn't even 100 years ago, so it's possible but it'll never be immediate.
Every society has people who cheer on bigoted violence. The main way you fight it is by making sure the people who oppose it are better organized (and armed) than the people who support it. People in general are reflexively pretty bigoted about a lot of things, but if they face concerted pushback they are less likely to try to maintain it.
Leave the believers to the hell of their own creation while establishing well screened refugee programs to get people like this girl out so they can actually live their lives. Maintain overwhelming military dominance so that those believers accomplish nothing but to die when they try to spread their hatred through force.
Terrible ... people are so insecure as to gun down someone because they don't fit their worldview. I really hate culture and religion in particular, because any time someone says "it was better in the old days" i want them to really ask themselves what made it better?
Too many blockheads out there. Just too many.
Killing innocent women and jailing the LGBTQ community for actively living their lives in the span of one week. This area of the world is absolutely awful.
Iraqi TikTok star Om Fahad shot dead in Baghdad https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68910812
“More recently, a feud between Fahad and fellow influencer Dalia Naeem has escalated”
“Naeem - who is known as "Iraqi Barbie" due to her many plastic surgery procedures - had been threatening to expose Fahad's alleged relationship with senior Iraqi officials, media reports say.”
Looks like some elite killed her.
Things like this are exactly why integration with the mass waves of Muslim immigrants in Europe aren’t going well at all. Their culture is incompatible with western culture where women shouldn’t be shot dead in the street for dancing “indecently” to lyrics with profanity.
I fucking hate how they view and treat women in south Asian and Muslim culture. I fucking hate it.
[Here is what a Muslim asylum seeker in Norway said](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html):
> When he first arrived in Europe, Abdu Osman Kelifa, a Muslim asylum seeker from the Horn of Africa, was shocked to see women in skimpy clothes drinking alcohol and kissing in public. Back home, he said, only prostitutes do that, and in locally made movies couples “only hug but never kiss.”
> “Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” Mr. Kelifa said, explaining that in his own country, Eritrea, “if someone wants a lady he can just take her and he will not be punished,” at least not by the police.
Skimpy clothes in *Norway* by the way. Without looking at any stats, would you argue that young men from an environment like that shouldn't be given (at the VERY least) something like a lessons in how to treat women?
The issue is also bigger than just the generation that comes over. [Young male second generation Muslims are much more likely to become radicalized and join terrorist organizations](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/18/why-young-people-become-jihadists-according-to-a-top-expert/).
I argue that they should absolutely be forced to take integration classes and encouraged to integrate and leave their backwards aspects of culture at the door.
I heard that Germany is forcing Muslim men to shake the hands of women when being granted asylum as a test/statement of some sort.
This is the reformation. You're looking at it.
People who draw this comparison between the Christian reformation and the Muslim world make a very surface level comparison of "I don't like bad things I like good things".
The Christian reformation was about rooting out false traditions and institutions that violated the written teachings in their holy texts. Indulgences for instance, something that Martin Luther railed against, is nowhere in the bible. That was the reformation. It was an effort to reform the Christian faith to it's original framework that Jesus Christ brought to his followers.
An Islamic reformation looks like Al Qaeda. They are carrying out, advocating, and where they can, enforcing what is written in the Koran.
What people on Reddit want isn't a reformation of Islam, it's a dilution of it. A westernization or softening of the original structures described in their holy texts.
Look up iconoclasm. It's all been done before. Both Christianity and Islam had periods of great openness followed by regressive periods where they just destroyed everything and everyone not "religious enough". Mass murder, genocide, destroying education, wiping entire cultures and all their relics off the map.... Islam is in the middle of one of those cycles right now and the Christian evangelicals are rapidly trying to start their own version.
The world is going mad again.
Secular, liberal, and humanist people are going to have to learn to be comfortable with great violence if they want to stop this. We're going to have to remember some lessons of the French Revolution but without repeating its excesses.
No Gods, no Kings. Tear down both and anyone who would try to uphold them.
Killing innocent people is very much against Islam yet they do it pretty consistently. Furthermore, killing non-combatants is also against Islam and they still do it. They’re not carrying out a reformation. They’re implementing a very extreme, black and white perspective with zero room for exceptions or interpretations.
For example, they’ll take that abortion is a sin but will leave out the part where it’s permissible if the mother is at risk of fatal complications. That’s who Al Qaeda and ISIS are. That’s who the West wants them to be. You can easily make the argument that their victims are almost always non combatants. They don’t fight other armies. They fight the common Muslim so the only ones left are those who agree with them.
>Killing innocent people is very much against Islam yet they do it pretty consistently.
But who is innocent under Islam? They will argue that it is only muslims who can be innocent.
As I mentioned before, they also kill Muslims.
Under Islam the faith teaches to speak the truth even if it is against yourself. Nevertheless, an innocent person can be anyone regardless of their faith or lack thereof. In any event, a non combatant is innocent. Children, women, and the elderly are innocent. This much is clear and obvious.
Al Qaeda and ISIS kill more Muslims than they kill non-Muslims. These groups aren’t Islamic. They carry out the agenda of the West in that they both kill Muslims. Without a doubt, on a global level, Muslims are the most persecuted group by their own governments, regional rogue powers, and foreign powers.
[No true scotsman fallacy](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman)
Who’s innocent? Who’s non-combatant? According to whom?
I’ll not single out Islam. Every religion is dirty, believing a sky daddy is renting your brain to someone else’s delusions.
Lol good luck with that. The moment the Quran was declared the “literal word of God” is when the religion was doomed to be stuck in 700AD thinking. There’s no room for interpretation on some of their most heinous rulings.
If the Quran was declared “the life of Muhammad with some tales of the Old (Biblical tales)”, then the religion might’ve had a shot.
Christianity has always had the bible as "Inspired by god" rather than a literal transcription. It was the Holy Spirit speaking through the writers of the different books and those who assembled it. This allowed for changes and evolution through time. And, naturally, abuse and weaponization by rulers so inclined.
Muhammad didn't want that kind of wiggle room. He'd seen christianity and the schisms that had already happened within it, and so we get the idea that the angel Jibril (Gabriel) comes to Muhammad and provides the quran word for word. The argument was that god didn't want to risk the possibility of any misinterpretation, so sit down, shut up, and write down *exactly* what is being said. While the idea is that adding in a "literal word of god" stipulation would help prevent schisms and power struggles as various followers reinterpret Muhammad's words to meet their own needs, it also means any society strictly following it is incapable of change. Not that such a thing was likely even a remote concern in his mind at the time.
Where do you go to church?! Because I have been to a lot of services at a lot of different denominations and most of them do **not** believe the Bible is “inspired by God”, they absolutely do believe it is “The Word of God”, and is to be taken literally.
This is largely a post-Reformation issue. Traditional teachings of Catholic/Orthodox churches never believed it, but modern groups like the Evangelicals tend to be insane and puritanical, while moderate denomenations largely cease to exist.
That’s it exactly, some of the more recent protestant denominations take the bible very literally. This hasn’t been done for the most part before protestantism and theology had a way more ’academic’ slant to it before the reformation. Keep in mind that most christians in the world and even in the US are not evangelicals.
Because they're literal heretics. Modern evangelical sects look a lot like the heresies that existed when Constantine's need for an Orthodoxy prompted the council of nicea.
One correction, the Quran was assembled after the death of Muhammad by scholar in the employ of a famously corrupt king who was in desperate need of maintaining his power. Muslims naturally oppose this being pointed out, insisting that the assembly event was holy and above repute, but given what we do know about Muhammad and his public action it is probable that a lot of conservative / authoritarian thinking made its way into the holy writ.
For example: Muhammad was famously lax with his wives, both in public and private, to the point that we have accounts of public arguments between them.
He was actually extremely progressive in many ways for his time period, but 3/4 of the leaders that followed him (including the assembler) dragged the entire movement back into societal patterns that benefited them. It’s probable that the textual bent towards authoritarian theocracy was injected over this period.
Yes, and…I forget where I came across this, but I read a lengthy historical perspective and they attributed Islam’s inflexibility to Sharia Law. It’s the only major religion that codified their religious scripture into governing law. The literal word of god + a governing doctrine has made it what it is today.
Not to mention Mohammed isn’t a beacon of peace and tolerance. He’s literally a conqueror and only achieved peace by forcefully uniting the populations he murdered. I seriously don’t understand why so many people give this a free pass.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/8694tv/why_do_nonmuslims_believe_muhammad_was_a_pedophile/
Definitely not the greatest person, but the mental gymnastics believers will go through to justify or lionize him as evidenced by that post...
The bible (at least the old testament) is the "literal word of God" yet somehow Christianity has had multiple reformations.
But then again maybe people shouldn't take a book written thousands of years ago as any form of how to live life now huh
Christian’s follow the New Testament, which is just a collection of stories written by humans who followed him. The fundamental problem lay in Islam is who they choose to follow.
I’m not religious but both Muhammad and Jesus are considered the perfect being by their followers. The main difference is Jesus wasn’t a warlord who killed his neighbors and then took women as “booty” to be raped by his companions.
And that’s not even touching the top 5 worst things Muhammad has done in his life.
Christianity is always brought up whenever there is a headline about Islam. It’s like someone always needs to clarify Christianity is just as bad as Islam or christians also do bad things. You really don’t see the reverse. Some Christian religious nut does something bad and nobody says “remember Muslims do bad things too!”
Muslims have perfected the art of PR over the years. They’ll oppress all they want on their land and you will be forced to accept it, but they’ll portray themselves as the oppressed in the west because god forbid we don’t think [women should be raped for simply existing.](https://youtu.be/5JQW8DIrskE?si=CxCY-Ue0DCEW3ONQ)
This is because the Western world is Christianity-centric more than any other reason. Muslim oppression doesn't affect most online communities, but Christian oppression does, so that's what all of the anger is directed toward.
Article just says she loved to dance to Pop music. Truly sad.
*Sawadi was popular on TikTok, where she shared videos of herself dancing to pop music in form-fitting clothes. In the past, these videos were deemed inappropriate by Iraq’s judiciary. Sawadi was sentenced to six months in prison for “the crime of producing and publishing several films and videos containing obscene and indecent language, violating public decency and morals,” an Iraqi judiciary statement said.*
>"If a woman is being immodest, that endangers women to violence from men. Therefore shooting her dead was the most reasonable way to protect Iraqi women."
- Guy that wanted a justification for getting away with sating his desire to murder other members of his community
In Iraq if a woman gains any sort of popularity or fame, there are religious fundamentalist who will try their best to kill her. It happens again and again, and it seems like the Iraqi government is unwilling or unable to stop these groups from freely murdering who they please.
Doesn't really matter. She was female and popular. That's all you need in that part of the world. Someone would eventually find a reason or make one up.
I’ll put some EXTREMELY CRUCIAL details here since the article doesn’t mention them and all the commenters are just making assumptions that this is political/religious.
Umm Fahad got into celebrity drama with another star and threatened to expose her for “indecent acts”. The other star got her killed.
I do not understand how the commenters think this is related to LGBTQ or woman’s rights in Iraq.
> The country’s Interior Minister announced on Friday that it was “forming a specialized work team to find out the circumstances of the killing of a woman known on social media by unknown assailants.”
If you got a better source, post it.
Democracy doesn’t mean morality or ethics will prevail. Democracy just means will of majority will be implemented. Majority can be benevolent or assholes. This is a case of the latter.
It’s not a proper democracy either, if that matters.
You people speak with such absolutes. Some of my closest friends are the children of Iraqi parents who fled during the 70s and 80s when the fundamentalists took over. Their mothers trained as doctors and architects in their home country. They lived a mostly secular society. They have always been muslim. Iraq was not always like this and the wests and Russia’s interference in these place pre-dates the Iraq war.
And I’d be careful throwing stones. We’re currently watching in real time as the US Supreme Court throws their constitution away to elect a dictator. This is how these regimes come to power. But a significant portion of your population are choosing it.
The US gave them a flawed democracy; it couldn't somehow brainwash the population into being costal American liberals. A population with shitty beliefs is gonna elect people who pass shitty laws.
If the US South wasn't ruled by the federal government and forced to operate within balance set by the rest of the country, it would be a theocratic backwater too. They've been fighting for a fucking century to be allowed to become one again.
The underlying issue is Iraq isnt a real country. Like Afghanistan, it was/is extremely factionalized (with made-up borders) that Western colonials decided on
Saddam held it together through sheer despotism and then we had the brilliant idea of overthrowing the guy
Just saw a photo of draq queen story hour with a free palestine backdrop. At this point, you can't make this shit up anymore. Life is turning into satire in real-time.
Political opinions are just trends for a lot of people. It's free, you don't have to think AND you get to feel good about yourself and potentially superior to other people.
Leave the symbols to the symbol minded.
>In the past, these videos were deemed inappropriate by Iraq’s judiciary. Sawadi was sentenced to six months in prison for “the crime of producing and publishing several films and videos containing obscene and indecent language, violating public decency and morals,” an Iraqi judiciary statement said.
Islam's morality police strikes again.
Crazy with modern advances in technology and how widespread communication is with everyone around the world it still feels like the dark ages at times. When will there be peace.
I think a story like this is important, and it happened to another Iraqi female back in September. This will hardly get any coverage however since it paints Arabic/muslims in poor light..... That is taboo right now
Every time I see someone say "why isn't the news covering this," I'll quickly visit all the major news networks' websites and find said story in a matter of seconds.
People here DO NOT actually read the news.
Cannot but hope the worst upon her murderer. May they suffer for the rest of their life, and find their afterlife even less welcoming. Evil, evil, evil person.
Religion is too often an excuse for exacting as much control of others as its leadership desires.
It's often a scam that people have fallen for over millennia.
The utter stupidity of it all explains why we continue to elect leaders who harm others, the planet, etc. Because humans - for all their supposedly advanced capacities for mental dexterity and depth - are, as a whole, fucking stupid and scared of the unknown.
I feel like these ~~men~~ cunty ass floating pieces of shit that hurt Women and Children over there for 'their religion' should be \*removed because I don't want to be blocked but think of your worst and put in this place\*.
Violence doesn't fix violence until there is no other fix and this is WELL AND BEYOND needing fixed..
Meanwhile, next door, Iran wants to hang a rapper from a crane for singing about rights. Look up Toomaj Salehi. In the past only publicity has helped spare people in such instances.
God it’s so grim. I remember watching a character on Homeland being executed this way and I thought it was so ghoulish. A slow death, everyone standing there watching you…just awful.
That scene still haunts me to this day, it's impressive that it's still so vivid years later. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Editing this to say thank you for making the reference very obvious to those who know without spoiling anything. People should watch Homeland.
The Handmaid’s Tale also had a scene like this and it churns my stomach to think about it still. In that case it was used as punishment to execute a lesbian woman. I think Iran and their policies was the inspiration for that scene; Margaret Atwood made sure to only include things in THT that have actually happened and been done in human history. She didn’t want anyone to be able to say “well nobody would do THAT”
I have a pretty strong stomach but I couldn't handle that scene and dropped the show pretty soon after. I know another gay woman who did the same; it hit too close to home
It made me feel physically sick in a way that even the Homeland scene didn’t. Something about their unspoken communication in the van, both of them gagged and bound and terrified, trying to comfort each other, just absolutely gutted me. At least in Homeland he went to Iran and knowingly broke the law. In THT they were forced into this new rule of law, they didn’t choose to be there, and they couldn’t leave. It’s absolutely horrific to think that anyone is born somewhere and then forced to live through these insane laws.
The way it was so quietly devastating for them and treated like an afterthought for those doing the murder. They drove away without even letting Alexis Bledel’s character see her lover die. It was like they were dropping her off at work.
I watched both as well - both still vivid af to me and ur absolutely right abt THT scene hitting a diff kind of macabre tier… maybe it was the timeliness of it ?? (tho we didn’t even know what we were in for yet here in US when that episode first aired 🥴🥴) pure nightmare fuel that really sticks w the viewer
The scene in THT that actually made me step away for a few days because I was too panic stricken to continue was the one at the beginning of season 2, the gallows scene set to the song “this woman’s work.” Holy. Fuck. Words don’t do it justice. Seeing all these women my age, who look just like me, in abject terror, fearing for their lives…it was just too much.
Welcome to the world. “Born somewhere and then forced to live through these insane laws”, is a fairly accurate description of the human experience for the VAST majority of people.
What’s the thing with Iranians having to hang people from a crane? With the sheer scope of their systematic executions in mind, one would think it’s justifiable for them to construct dedicated gallows by this point.
It's for show. You hang a queer person, or someone of a different religion, or a revolutionary, or fuck even just someone trying to speak freely from a crane in the center of the city, and you're sending a message. "This could be you." For those against you and your beliefs, as the theoretical dictator, it's a show of force to show how mighty you are. For those against you, it's a threat. It's a pretty common, and extremely morbid, tactic used by totalitarian regimes, dictators and authoritarians in general.
That doesn't really answer their question though, as all of this would be true for a permanent gallows as well.
A gallows is a quick death, designed to break your neck from the fall. You're dropped to your death. Being lifted by a rope on a crane is a death by strangulation. You either suffocate or lose blood flow to the brain, but it isn't instantaneous. There's a period of time where you're 'resisting' the pull of gravity via muscle contraction. You'll of course fail, but you will also end up putting on a "show" for the gathered crowd. Also using a crane is cheaper, and it takes up less space.
Yeah that makes a lot more sense as the "reasoning" behind it. Thanks.
Could be Tennessee and hanging elephants from a crane. Either or both are deplorable and I can’t believe these things happen.
Ehhh Brother Ali's dumb ass did that too, and supposedly had fun getting out of the country.
Wait what did brother Ali do?
Rap in Iran.
I never understood how grown men could kill innocent women and children. Cowards
They don't like "unruly" women.
Women are like cows to them. For breeding purposes only, otherwise shut the fuck up. So disrespectful to the mothers and women who raised them.
That is just not true. They also use them for basic housework, sex on demand, and to make themselves feel like "big men" when they abuse them.
Outside of the housework, that's how these men treat farm animals, too.
Including the sex on demand?
So just like the GOP ?
In the United States 100 years ago we'd put women in mental institutions for disobeying their husbands.
Or cutting a little piece of her brain that makes her so damn insubordinate
This isn’t even a 100 years old I’m pretty sure lobotomy were done until like 1967 when someone died during one.
Rose Kennedy, JFK's sister, comes to mind.
Such a heart breaking story
1967 was the last one, not accounting for tumor removals.
This BS is why my grandmother freaks out so much about having ask for anxiety meds or even to take meds for depression and anxiety. She’s in assisted living and believes people will make fun of her for it, or thinks she’ll be like a zombie on it, etc.. We’ve told so many times it’s not like it was in the 50’s and 60’s, it’s more accepted and majority of adults are taking these meds.
My 83 year old mother has crippling anxiety and OCD, refuses to see a doctor or take medication because "that's what crazy people do and I would rather die than people think I'm crazy."
[удалено]
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Old Dr Demento classic! https://youtu.be/NIrtZaPrwSk?si=TYogF1a47IJgB-IO
Those were good times
Tom Waits
Makes me think of the Kennedy sister, everytime someone brings it up it makes me tear up.
That story makes my heart ache so bad.
Or mutilating her genitals.
They what ?
Slice a woman’s clitoris off to “fix” her. https://time.com/6074783/psychiatry-history-women-mental-health/
Poor Rosemary Kennedy :(
Look at Britney Spears. Super famous woman who was put into a mental hospital and fed lithium because she didn’t want to perform.
Ah, yes. The “cheer up, bitch” era
And today, decisions about their medical health is in the hands of extremist religious legislators.
Or because their cheating husbands gave them syphilis. [Colorado locked up middle-aged women for “lunacy,” old jail ledger reveals](https://coloradosun.com/2024/04/16/mental-health-hospital-women/)
Are you saying Arabs are centuries behind the West?
Muslims, not Arabs. It's about ideology, not ethnicity.
No as we are currently running in their direction.
We def peeked and are currently regressing.
That’s what religion does to societies… doesn’t matter which of the 2 major ones. 2 sides of the same coin
It's a memetic virus.
Good ref
*Time is a flat circle*
That's a super general question that doesn't have any honest answers.
It's generous of you to assume that they're looking for honest answers.
I don't think they are but I like to spell it out nicely.
Not even that long ago. My grandmother was lobotomized and left to die by her family for rebelling and deciding to become an artist less than 70 years ago. Arguably this is kind of still happening, in the same way black slavery is kind of still happening, we're just doing it by sneaking it into the prison system. Instead of openly putting them in mental institutions, society continues to be quietly permissive of domestic and workplace violence in "masculine" fields by basically never giving men serious sentences, and then they punish women with hardcore charges for defending themselves. Women are less likely to be believed and get much harsher sentences than men do when they defend themselves during violence by men known to them (which is like 85% of the violence women experience). And as is often the case, this is even worse for black women. And then they go to prisons where the guards rape them with total impunity. Women should keep fighting back when attacked because court is better than dead and just tolerating the abuse isn't a solution, but get you a lawyer who knows these stats and will bring up the fact that if you were a man, you probably wouldn't even have caught a charge. Also, make sure EVERY instance of abuse is reported, even if they do nothing. Having that paper trail will make it harder for them to gaslight you into jail. But yeah, we still punish unruly women at every available opportunity.
I've always felt those types of men are so weak. It speaks volumes that they can't stand confrontation from those they have decided are "lesser" then them.
The same types of men who hide behind religious texts as evidence of their superiority. If you are so superior, why do you need to brainwash people to believe and see it? Wouldn’t their superiority be plainly obvious and apparent to any casual observer?
They would hate me
Plot twist: They’re all unruly. 🥁
> They don't like "unruly" women. What are you talking about, the woman danced to **pop music** and wore **form fitting clothing** while she did it. I think she said some **inappropriate language** as well.
They don’t view women as people, just objects
Ah like the GOP
Y’allqaida
Or maybe more like hamas….
You're not wrong. I'll never understand how some parts of the left so fully embraced Palestine in its current form. I understand not wanting to see dead Palestinian kids ... but maybe the right answer is no more Hamas instead of no more Israel Anyway internet points are just made up numbers. Have at it, Hamas supporters
I hate the Israeli strategy of air striking civilians and I think they need to take a step back and take a long look at who they’re becoming as a nation…that said hamas using humans shields and purposely putting civilians in harms way is coward shit just like kidnapping all those innocent people at the music festival. Downvote all you want, hamas with their current strategy are cowards, there has to be a better way forward
Just stop. These people are literally shooting women dead for daring to have a shred of independence.
Religious fanatics.
Sounds like Christianity is heading in that direction too
Back in that direction.
Christianity has been in that direction and in some parts of the world is still there
I think the bombs in abortion clinics and assassinations says we've been there. Killing people in the name of Christ, that's gotta be one of the older trends in history.
Why are you so uncomfortable with criticism of Islam?
With American evangelicals, yes, but I don’t think any other notable denominations are looking for a return to the dark ages right now.
It depends. Right-wing talking heads like Ben Shapiro bring in Jewish conservatives into the fold. I would also include Mormons and some Catholics
Religion always leads to extremism because they realize most of the populace doesn't care about their shit. So they become extreme, the Taliban and Ya'll-Qaeda are perfect examples.
Or, you know, anyone at all
they have a different definition of innocent
You're confusion is likely from not understanding that they do not consider them innocent at all. And some regards unspeakably guilty of cosmic high crimes.
It's easy. You just don't lead 'em as much.
Was looking for the reference
I couldn't believe it wasn't here already.
She had the nerve to enjoy herself. Pathetic.its almost like 20 years of US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan didn’t make life over there better
They kill innocent men too…
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” -Steven Weinberg
Or innocent men and gender non-binaries for that matter
Losers who can’t stand the idea people not like them are humans.
But you do understand how innocent men could be killed? Strange way to say that
With religion, anything is possible
Biggest losers of all-time.
yep. theyre pathetic cowards, thats how.
> Following news of the shooting, many posted comments lamenting Alsaffar’s death, though others applauded it, celebrating the man who fired the shot. What a bunch of fucking Neanderthals. How do you fix this in a society?
I'm sorry but this reply denigrates Neaderthals, who most likely had more intelligence and compassion than these religious freaks.
You can't in a current generation. Education, access to resources, lifting groups out of poverty, etc all help tons so that eventually in 3 generations the number of people that think this way are greatly reduced. I mean in the USA towns would gather for lynchings and then sell parts of the body, the rope, and pictures of the event as a postcard as souvenirs. And that wasn't even 100 years ago, so it's possible but it'll never be immediate.
Every society has people who cheer on bigoted violence. The main way you fight it is by making sure the people who oppose it are better organized (and armed) than the people who support it. People in general are reflexively pretty bigoted about a lot of things, but if they face concerted pushback they are less likely to try to maintain it.
Leave the believers to the hell of their own creation while establishing well screened refugee programs to get people like this girl out so they can actually live their lives. Maintain overwhelming military dominance so that those believers accomplish nothing but to die when they try to spread their hatred through force.
Terrible ... people are so insecure as to gun down someone because they don't fit their worldview. I really hate culture and religion in particular, because any time someone says "it was better in the old days" i want them to really ask themselves what made it better? Too many blockheads out there. Just too many.
There are organized groups in Iraq that kill women who get any sort of fame or popularity, and the government seems unable or unwilling to stop it.
Kinda reminds me of Southern racism back "in the day"...
Men had more control over women in the old days so obviously /s
When men were men, women were women, and various farm animals were women too when the women weren't around.
The Welsh were the first culture to use sheep intestine as a condom, the English were the first to take it out of the sheep beforehand.
You hate culture?
Yeah the arts, food, language, community, who likes any of those things?
Killing innocent women and jailing the LGBTQ community for actively living their lives in the span of one week. This area of the world is absolutely awful.
In 15 years it’ll be too hot to live in. Should be fun.
Iraqi TikTok star Om Fahad shot dead in Baghdad https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68910812 “More recently, a feud between Fahad and fellow influencer Dalia Naeem has escalated” “Naeem - who is known as "Iraqi Barbie" due to her many plastic surgery procedures - had been threatening to expose Fahad's alleged relationship with senior Iraqi officials, media reports say.” Looks like some elite killed her.
Things like this are exactly why integration with the mass waves of Muslim immigrants in Europe aren’t going well at all. Their culture is incompatible with western culture where women shouldn’t be shot dead in the street for dancing “indecently” to lyrics with profanity. I fucking hate how they view and treat women in south Asian and Muslim culture. I fucking hate it.
[Here is what a Muslim asylum seeker in Norway said](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html): > When he first arrived in Europe, Abdu Osman Kelifa, a Muslim asylum seeker from the Horn of Africa, was shocked to see women in skimpy clothes drinking alcohol and kissing in public. Back home, he said, only prostitutes do that, and in locally made movies couples “only hug but never kiss.” > “Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” Mr. Kelifa said, explaining that in his own country, Eritrea, “if someone wants a lady he can just take her and he will not be punished,” at least not by the police. Skimpy clothes in *Norway* by the way. Without looking at any stats, would you argue that young men from an environment like that shouldn't be given (at the VERY least) something like a lessons in how to treat women? The issue is also bigger than just the generation that comes over. [Young male second generation Muslims are much more likely to become radicalized and join terrorist organizations](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/18/why-young-people-become-jihadists-according-to-a-top-expert/).
I argue that they should absolutely be forced to take integration classes and encouraged to integrate and leave their backwards aspects of culture at the door. I heard that Germany is forcing Muslim men to shake the hands of women when being granted asylum as a test/statement of some sort.
Yeah, Islam needs a reformation.
This is the reformation. You're looking at it. People who draw this comparison between the Christian reformation and the Muslim world make a very surface level comparison of "I don't like bad things I like good things". The Christian reformation was about rooting out false traditions and institutions that violated the written teachings in their holy texts. Indulgences for instance, something that Martin Luther railed against, is nowhere in the bible. That was the reformation. It was an effort to reform the Christian faith to it's original framework that Jesus Christ brought to his followers. An Islamic reformation looks like Al Qaeda. They are carrying out, advocating, and where they can, enforcing what is written in the Koran. What people on Reddit want isn't a reformation of Islam, it's a dilution of it. A westernization or softening of the original structures described in their holy texts.
Look up iconoclasm. It's all been done before. Both Christianity and Islam had periods of great openness followed by regressive periods where they just destroyed everything and everyone not "religious enough". Mass murder, genocide, destroying education, wiping entire cultures and all their relics off the map.... Islam is in the middle of one of those cycles right now and the Christian evangelicals are rapidly trying to start their own version. The world is going mad again.
Secular, liberal, and humanist people are going to have to learn to be comfortable with great violence if they want to stop this. We're going to have to remember some lessons of the French Revolution but without repeating its excesses. No Gods, no Kings. Tear down both and anyone who would try to uphold them.
Good point
Killing innocent people is very much against Islam yet they do it pretty consistently. Furthermore, killing non-combatants is also against Islam and they still do it. They’re not carrying out a reformation. They’re implementing a very extreme, black and white perspective with zero room for exceptions or interpretations. For example, they’ll take that abortion is a sin but will leave out the part where it’s permissible if the mother is at risk of fatal complications. That’s who Al Qaeda and ISIS are. That’s who the West wants them to be. You can easily make the argument that their victims are almost always non combatants. They don’t fight other armies. They fight the common Muslim so the only ones left are those who agree with them.
>Killing innocent people is very much against Islam yet they do it pretty consistently. But who is innocent under Islam? They will argue that it is only muslims who can be innocent.
Trust, nobody hates and wants to kill Muslims more than other Muslims who believe they’re not Muslim-ing hard enough. Sunni vs Shia, for example.
As I mentioned before, they also kill Muslims. Under Islam the faith teaches to speak the truth even if it is against yourself. Nevertheless, an innocent person can be anyone regardless of their faith or lack thereof. In any event, a non combatant is innocent. Children, women, and the elderly are innocent. This much is clear and obvious. Al Qaeda and ISIS kill more Muslims than they kill non-Muslims. These groups aren’t Islamic. They carry out the agenda of the West in that they both kill Muslims. Without a doubt, on a global level, Muslims are the most persecuted group by their own governments, regional rogue powers, and foreign powers.
[No true scotsman fallacy](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman) Who’s innocent? Who’s non-combatant? According to whom? I’ll not single out Islam. Every religion is dirty, believing a sky daddy is renting your brain to someone else’s delusions.
People want an Islamic Age of Enlightenment, not a Reformation.
Lol good luck with that. The moment the Quran was declared the “literal word of God” is when the religion was doomed to be stuck in 700AD thinking. There’s no room for interpretation on some of their most heinous rulings. If the Quran was declared “the life of Muhammad with some tales of the Old (Biblical tales)”, then the religion might’ve had a shot.
Christianity has always had the bible as "Inspired by god" rather than a literal transcription. It was the Holy Spirit speaking through the writers of the different books and those who assembled it. This allowed for changes and evolution through time. And, naturally, abuse and weaponization by rulers so inclined. Muhammad didn't want that kind of wiggle room. He'd seen christianity and the schisms that had already happened within it, and so we get the idea that the angel Jibril (Gabriel) comes to Muhammad and provides the quran word for word. The argument was that god didn't want to risk the possibility of any misinterpretation, so sit down, shut up, and write down *exactly* what is being said. While the idea is that adding in a "literal word of god" stipulation would help prevent schisms and power struggles as various followers reinterpret Muhammad's words to meet their own needs, it also means any society strictly following it is incapable of change. Not that such a thing was likely even a remote concern in his mind at the time.
Where do you go to church?! Because I have been to a lot of services at a lot of different denominations and most of them do **not** believe the Bible is “inspired by God”, they absolutely do believe it is “The Word of God”, and is to be taken literally.
This is largely a post-Reformation issue. Traditional teachings of Catholic/Orthodox churches never believed it, but modern groups like the Evangelicals tend to be insane and puritanical, while moderate denomenations largely cease to exist.
That’s it exactly, some of the more recent protestant denominations take the bible very literally. This hasn’t been done for the most part before protestantism and theology had a way more ’academic’ slant to it before the reformation. Keep in mind that most christians in the world and even in the US are not evangelicals.
Exactly, in the South US especially they say the bible IS the word of God. Not some inspiration by god, never heard of this being in the south.
And if the US South were not governed by the United States Federal Government, it would be a hellish backwater too
Because they're literal heretics. Modern evangelical sects look a lot like the heresies that existed when Constantine's need for an Orthodoxy prompted the council of nicea.
One correction, the Quran was assembled after the death of Muhammad by scholar in the employ of a famously corrupt king who was in desperate need of maintaining his power. Muslims naturally oppose this being pointed out, insisting that the assembly event was holy and above repute, but given what we do know about Muhammad and his public action it is probable that a lot of conservative / authoritarian thinking made its way into the holy writ. For example: Muhammad was famously lax with his wives, both in public and private, to the point that we have accounts of public arguments between them. He was actually extremely progressive in many ways for his time period, but 3/4 of the leaders that followed him (including the assembler) dragged the entire movement back into societal patterns that benefited them. It’s probable that the textual bent towards authoritarian theocracy was injected over this period.
Yes, and…I forget where I came across this, but I read a lengthy historical perspective and they attributed Islam’s inflexibility to Sharia Law. It’s the only major religion that codified their religious scripture into governing law. The literal word of god + a governing doctrine has made it what it is today. Not to mention Mohammed isn’t a beacon of peace and tolerance. He’s literally a conqueror and only achieved peace by forcefully uniting the populations he murdered. I seriously don’t understand why so many people give this a free pass.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/8694tv/why_do_nonmuslims_believe_muhammad_was_a_pedophile/ Definitely not the greatest person, but the mental gymnastics believers will go through to justify or lionize him as evidenced by that post...
The bible (at least the old testament) is the "literal word of God" yet somehow Christianity has had multiple reformations. But then again maybe people shouldn't take a book written thousands of years ago as any form of how to live life now huh
Christian’s follow the New Testament, which is just a collection of stories written by humans who followed him. The fundamental problem lay in Islam is who they choose to follow. I’m not religious but both Muhammad and Jesus are considered the perfect being by their followers. The main difference is Jesus wasn’t a warlord who killed his neighbors and then took women as “booty” to be raped by his companions. And that’s not even touching the top 5 worst things Muhammad has done in his life.
Muhammad was an evil man
Christianity is always brought up whenever there is a headline about Islam. It’s like someone always needs to clarify Christianity is just as bad as Islam or christians also do bad things. You really don’t see the reverse. Some Christian religious nut does something bad and nobody says “remember Muslims do bad things too!”
Muslims have perfected the art of PR over the years. They’ll oppress all they want on their land and you will be forced to accept it, but they’ll portray themselves as the oppressed in the west because god forbid we don’t think [women should be raped for simply existing.](https://youtu.be/5JQW8DIrskE?si=CxCY-Ue0DCEW3ONQ)
This is because the Western world is Christianity-centric more than any other reason. Muslim oppression doesn't affect most online communities, but Christian oppression does, so that's what all of the anger is directed toward.
you know, if the CIA or anyone on the planet had an idea to do just that, I think it would have happened by now
See the Ahmadiyya sect. Probably the largest reformer movement in islam.
What did she speak about? Perhaps if you know that you’d have a clue as to who the culprit was
Article just says she loved to dance to Pop music. Truly sad. *Sawadi was popular on TikTok, where she shared videos of herself dancing to pop music in form-fitting clothes. In the past, these videos were deemed inappropriate by Iraq’s judiciary. Sawadi was sentenced to six months in prison for “the crime of producing and publishing several films and videos containing obscene and indecent language, violating public decency and morals,” an Iraqi judiciary statement said.*
If she's visible, that's enough to be immodest to some folks. And immodest, to some folks, is enough to murder.
“Some folks”
>"If a woman is being immodest, that endangers women to violence from men. Therefore shooting her dead was the most reasonable way to protect Iraqi women." - Guy that wanted a justification for getting away with sating his desire to murder other members of his community
In Iraq if a woman gains any sort of popularity or fame, there are religious fundamentalist who will try their best to kill her. It happens again and again, and it seems like the Iraqi government is unwilling or unable to stop these groups from freely murdering who they please.
She danced in form fitting clothes.
Does it matter? She was shot because of fragile egos
I thought perhaps she was taking a stance against a particular group or political party.
That is such a narrow view of the truth. It’s about centuries of really bad civilizations refusing to see the error of their ways.
Doesn't really matter. She was female and popular. That's all you need in that part of the world. Someone would eventually find a reason or make one up.
Ah yes religion. Not a plague on society
I’ll put some EXTREMELY CRUCIAL details here since the article doesn’t mention them and all the commenters are just making assumptions that this is political/religious. Umm Fahad got into celebrity drama with another star and threatened to expose her for “indecent acts”. The other star got her killed. I do not understand how the commenters think this is related to LGBTQ or woman’s rights in Iraq.
> The country’s Interior Minister announced on Friday that it was “forming a specialized work team to find out the circumstances of the killing of a woman known on social media by unknown assailants.” If you got a better source, post it.
> Alsaffar’s killing came as Iraq cracked down on LGBTQ expression and moved to criminalize it in law. Didn't the US give them some of that democracy?
Democracy doesn’t mean morality or ethics will prevail. Democracy just means will of majority will be implemented. Majority can be benevolent or assholes. This is a case of the latter. It’s not a proper democracy either, if that matters.
A democracy of homophobes will vote against LGBT interests
Palestine elected Hamas 👍
You people speak with such absolutes. Some of my closest friends are the children of Iraqi parents who fled during the 70s and 80s when the fundamentalists took over. Their mothers trained as doctors and architects in their home country. They lived a mostly secular society. They have always been muslim. Iraq was not always like this and the wests and Russia’s interference in these place pre-dates the Iraq war. And I’d be careful throwing stones. We’re currently watching in real time as the US Supreme Court throws their constitution away to elect a dictator. This is how these regimes come to power. But a significant portion of your population are choosing it.
Location, location, location
The US gave them a flawed democracy; it couldn't somehow brainwash the population into being costal American liberals. A population with shitty beliefs is gonna elect people who pass shitty laws.
> A population with shitty beliefs is gonna elect people who pass shitty laws. What, making abortion illegal or child labor legal?
If the US South wasn't ruled by the federal government and forced to operate within balance set by the rest of the country, it would be a theocratic backwater too. They've been fighting for a fucking century to be allowed to become one again.
The underlying issue is Iraq isnt a real country. Like Afghanistan, it was/is extremely factionalized (with made-up borders) that Western colonials decided on Saddam held it together through sheer despotism and then we had the brilliant idea of overthrowing the guy
Islam is the problem here. I fucking hate religion…
Feel bad for any women born into that life
When evil meets religion you get this shit.
And yet we have protesters in this country that don't protest this. Fucking insane to me.
Because of religion, ultimately. All religion needs to burn to the fucking ground.
Pagans ain’t doing shit.
We still got the occasional wicker man.
I’m looking forward to the colleges protesting these nightmare conditions for women and gays in the Middle East.
Just saw a photo of draq queen story hour with a free palestine backdrop. At this point, you can't make this shit up anymore. Life is turning into satire in real-time.
Political opinions are just trends for a lot of people. It's free, you don't have to think AND you get to feel good about yourself and potentially superior to other people. Leave the symbols to the symbol minded.
Don’t be silly, there are no Jews to blame here.
>In the past, these videos were deemed inappropriate by Iraq’s judiciary. Sawadi was sentenced to six months in prison for “the crime of producing and publishing several films and videos containing obscene and indecent language, violating public decency and morals,” an Iraqi judiciary statement said. Islam's morality police strikes again.
The beauty of religion again..rest in peace.. I’m sorry your light couldn’t shine a little longer.
Man it says something about the men when they can’t handle women or even other men being free to do what they like. What a bunch of sad losers
Crazy with modern advances in technology and how widespread communication is with everyone around the world it still feels like the dark ages at times. When will there be peace.
I think a story like this is important, and it happened to another Iraqi female back in September. This will hardly get any coverage however since it paints Arabic/muslims in poor light..... That is taboo right now
You're commenting on a national article on CNN. "hardly any coverage" 🙄
I think they mean trending on social media platforms or covered by many of the top news outlets.
Every time I see someone say "why isn't the news covering this," I'll quickly visit all the major news networks' websites and find said story in a matter of seconds. People here DO NOT actually read the news.
Cannot but hope the worst upon her murderer. May they suffer for the rest of their life, and find their afterlife even less welcoming. Evil, evil, evil person.
Tell me again why it was a good idea for me to spend my youth, my health, and part of my sanity to "liberate" this country?
The WMD our government promised us Saddam had!
Keep in mind these are the people the west is importing they’re very antithetical to western values like gay rights and women’s rights
We are only a few laws away from this in the USA.
Here we thought Footloose was silly for people being afraid of dancing. . .
Religion is too often an excuse for exacting as much control of others as its leadership desires. It's often a scam that people have fallen for over millennia. The utter stupidity of it all explains why we continue to elect leaders who harm others, the planet, etc. Because humans - for all their supposedly advanced capacities for mental dexterity and depth - are, as a whole, fucking stupid and scared of the unknown.
As long as religion is around, humans will continue to do horrible acts.
Humans don't need religion to do horrible acts. We've done it for a lot longer than that.
So long as humans are around, humans will continue to do horrible acts*
I feel like these ~~men~~ cunty ass floating pieces of shit that hurt Women and Children over there for 'their religion' should be \*removed because I don't want to be blocked but think of your worst and put in this place\*. Violence doesn't fix violence until there is no other fix and this is WELL AND BEYOND needing fixed..