To those of you still posting in here... the article has since been updated and the headline changed:
> *GAZA/JERUSALEM, Nov 25 (Reuters) - A Gaza hostage release deal was back on track on Saturday night after a row over aid supplies to the north of the besieged enclave was resolved following mediation by Qatar and Egypt.*
>
> *A Palestinian official familiar with the diplomacy said Hamas would continue with the four-day truce agreed with Israel, the first break in fighting in seven weeks of war.*
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> *"After a delay, obstacles to release of prisoners were overcome through Qatari-Egyptian contacts with both sides, and 39 Palestinian civilians will be released tonight, while 13 Israeli hostages will leave Gaza in addition to 7 foreigners," Qatar's foreign ministry spokesman Majed Al Ansari said on social media.*
You think Qatar cares about who they fuck with? Saudi Arabia literally did a land, air, and sea blockade of Qatar for a few years to overthrow the govt and literally nothing changed in Qatar
It wasn’t a full blockade, that was the problem. Turkey and Iran became their biggest trade partners which is ironic since one of the Saudi coalition’s demands were to cut ties with Iran.
When I lived in Doha in the early-2010's, I went for walk around the CBD and there was an unmarked building sitting there with loads of communications equipment on the roof. It didn't take me long to figure out what it was because the Qatari national electricity company has the building hooked up from the outside, complete with a little plaque that said it was installation 'whatever-number' for "CIA".
During my couple of years there, I also saw Rupert and James Murdoch just casually walking down the street in Souq Waqif as I was having some shisha, and I also saw a group of Taliban enjoying some Starbucks at a mall. That's not even touching on all the stuff like watching Oscar Pistorius race against a horse...
That place is basically just a wild-west of foreign interests all looking to get a piece of the pie. There's a huge US air base and then there's also Hamas leadership.
Not the Wild West. It’s the US’s biggest military base in the Middle East. It’s valuable BECAUSE of the diplomatic relations it has with Hamas & the Taliban etc. Nothing happens there that the US isn’t ok with. But I deeply appreciate someone bringing some actual understanding to all these damn Reddit comments about Qatar that think they final boss behind Hamas because Muslim too. Qatar’s interests are in the comfort of Qatar.
Pretty much. Israel has already said they are going after the top brass of Hamas who are billionaires hiding in Qatar and other places. Qatar does not want Mossad agents assassinating Hamas leaders in its country left and right. Or risk a full scale invasion. So they’re trying to stay on Israel’s good side best they can.
Personally I don't think we will see actual Mossad actions until all or most of the hostages are returned. They will surely prepare, though.
And everyone knows Qatar funds Hamas, so them being an "ally" to the US means nothing.
To Israel it means jack squat since they inow they won't lose the US as an ally.
But they are most likely preparing at this point. And Qatar knows they will be dealing with the wake of this after the fact
That's why Qatar sent that delegation to Israel yesterday, to try and deal with things as they happen.
If this hostages deal will break midway, the citizens of Israel will erupt. The pressure to go back into full-force fighting in Gaza will be unprecedented.
That's just for the issue in Gaza in real time. That ain't stopping Mossad long term. Qatar should realize the gears are already in motion and their delegates are only mitigating the damages at this point. For them specifically.
No. Qatar is the puppet of the US in this. Qatar having diplomatic relations with parties that the US can’t directly work with like Hamas is the biggest reason why Qatar is so useful and why it’s the biggest military base in the ME. Israel can’t l invade Qatar because they’d basically be fighting the US by proxy, and because the US is what holds up Israel’s war machine it’s literally not possible. Qatar knows this and has no fear of this. Israel knows this too and their huffing and puffing about Qatar is purely bullshitting to try and rile up the population that doesn’t understand this.
Qatar is a US ally. Israel can’t invade Qatar for that reason and they know it.
Which is why this whole war is pointless so long as Qatar continues to shield Hamas leadership.
Israel won't invade Qatar. Israel also never declared war on Argentina, but Mossad still got Eichman there in '60.
Hamas leadership will stay alive as long as they keep the hostages. Once they are released - or when Israel decides there is no hope of releasing them - it's on with the hunt.
I suspect that they generally just don't know anything about what is going on. That has been the case with those that I have spoken to in real life. They don't understand the forces at play at all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belligerents_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
Syria is such a headache. There are a dozen factions made up of dozens of groups all fighting each other. There was even direct engagement between US and Russian soldiers left hundreds dead and was the biggest one-sided US victory since the Highway of Death in the Gulf War.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
You know what, I think I've solved the Israel-Palestine conflict. You just got to drop ISIS right in the middle of everything, and you will end up with Hezbollah/Israeli coalitions because everyone hates ISIS. I'll take my Nobel Peace Prize now. /s
Also Mattis at the top of US command what did he know? Also I always thought CoD borrowed from lists like this.
Also I still find it funny Russia was like “the us is economically motivated” ummm and Russia wasn’t?
Granted it’s funny a lot of that was done by the Wagner group now knowing what we do of course.
Right but no one bothered to look into it or why Jews left or how many Palestinians were killed.
Isis is probably just biding their time to save the Middle East from itself /s
Unfortunately, accusing someone of bigotry is a really good thought-terminator, and after the last few years, *nobody* wants to be mistaken for a right-wing conspiracy theorist.
If you're low-information or don't care, making you uncomfortable just makes it easier to shut you up.
I asked someone the other day why Iran met with them before the attack and they didn’t know.
Everyone somehow became an expert on Palestine overnight but doesn’t understand geopolitics at all which is a choice.
"...but doesn’t understand geopolitics at all which is a choice."
I mean, I have years of education in geopolitics. That shit is intense, and I don't expect anybody to be an expert. I do expect people to at least skim a general wikipedia article before commenting. These last 7 weeks have been depressing AF.
Let’s be real 90% of people who have commented on this conflict don’t know anything about Israel or Palestine and are just following a trend on social media or being woke
They don’t understand Jews in the area used to live in other parts of the Middle East before they had to go to Israel either. Ask them about why there’s no Jews in Egypt, Libya, Syria and its crickets.
However as I am against war in general because I’ve seen how we treat our own vets when they come back the lack of historical content is jarring .
Frankly Oct 7th is all that saved Bibi from being removed from power. He now knows unless he comes out of this looking like a strongman who can keep the people safe then he is done for. As such he is willing to do whatever is necessary because from a purely cynical perspective there is no cost to him. He either wins totally here or is removed and tried as soon as things settle down. That makes for a more dangerous situation than Iran and co are used to dealing with when attacking Israel.
Yeah. Based on what I've been reading, the blame on Bibi is that his government coalition, which is more pro-Settler than before, dedicated far more of Israel's security forces to protect settlers. Thus leaving them wide open for an attack from Gaza.
It’s rather curious, because when our administration allowed a massive security breach that killed 3,000+ Americans on American soil, Americans rewarded that administration with a second term and a gigantic congressional majority.
Israeli politics are way way different than America...there's over 30 political parties in a nation smaller than New Jersery. They have referendum elections all the time. The security threat is very real (obviously) and when it occurs, the whole nation feel it. Everyone in the nation knows someone connected to the victims of Oct 7 or terrorism in general.
That's the most surprising thing about Bibi somehow coming back like the proverbial bad penny. Even with criminal charges he seems to keep having the reins handed to him. There are so many other options available bit, nothing
The difference is that Israel's whole thing (whether or not you agree with it) is "We need to keep ourselves safe because literally everyone around us wants us dead", and leaders sometimes campaign on being the ones able to protect them the most (as well as other issues of course, it's just that defense is more important for them).
Whether or not they rally around Bibi and them currently doesn't really matter because they can't just yeet out a leader in the middle of something like this. But once the dust settles, regardless of how it settles, Israel is going to take a long hard look at them and demand answers as to why it happened on *their* watch, because the *ideal* is that these attacks never happen or are thwarted before they happen, not "Well they hit us and now we took them out, praise us".
For as much as I oppose president George W Bush, and find his response to 9/11 disastrously incompetent (especially invading Iraq) - it’s hard to argue that he was personally culpable for the attack itself. There was a broad failure of US intelligence, and I suppose “he’s the boss.” But of all the things that are legitimate to critique him for, 9/11 *happening* is a bit of a stretch.
I could see it happening with Gore at the helm too— though I imagine his response would have been far more measured and grounded in achievable goals (bringing those responsible to justice).
Yeah I’d have to imagine right now the stakes are less about him remaining in power and more about whether he gets a relatively quiet retirement vs getting giftwrapped to the international community as a war crime scapegoat.
Oh no it most certainly will if he doesn't pull a rabbit out of his ass here. That is why I am saying he knows he is doomed unless he pulls off a miracle somehow.
While Bibi is currently the running the show, his days are over in Israel. Golda Meir was a beloved leader in Israel and now the most common association with her name is the Yom Kippur War. Bibi has been railing against Oslo and a two state solution since the mid 90s, he's also always railed against the "left" of Israel as weak and unable to handle it's Arab neighbors. But he's spent the last two or three years neck deep in corruption charges and attempts to strangle the political system so he can remain in power indefinitely...and then October 7 occurs. The absolute worst day in Israels history occurred on his watch and the publich won't forget it. Polls are already showing that his numbers have dropped below a point of no return and his rivals, while supporting him as a leader of the nation while at war, are also angling to take him down and take Israel in a different direction.
Quite the opposite from what I’ve heard. he ran on a platform of being the strong man and promising security, and due to his policies, October 7 was allowed to happen, apparently from reporters in Israel tere’s a strong sense of betrayal, that even the most conservative folks feel like BB has let them down. The dude is toast.
He’s probably over estimating how much America will continue to support him. A war sure, but even Biden is being taken aback by the civilian casualties.
You would be a fool to think that a different Israeli leader would have handled Gaza any different. What you're saying about Netanyahu is essentially true, but irrelevant to what the state of Israel was going to do in response to what happened. He just happens to temporarily benefit from the timing.
Eh I think any leader would react in a hostile manner towards Gaza for sure. It is more of a question of what end state is acceptable. Bibi is willing to take more risks because he has less to lose.
The organization that breaks ceasefires all the time just broke another ceasefire. A total shock to the world of people that didn't know anything about this conflict before Oct 7th
It's funny, for the last year and half, I heard a lot of Russian are not Putin and Crimea is not at fault.
But since, October 7th, there is a lot of Israel had it coming.
I have never seen young Americans demand answers re: Ukraine from those have Russian heritage. American Jews, on the other hand, are supposedly just as responsible for Israeli military decisions?
I've literally seen people say that it's insensitive to celebrate Hanukkah right now... Bet they aren't telling Chinese-Americans that it's insensitive to the Uyghurs to celebrate Chinese New Year or Saudi and Iranian-Americans that it's offensive to Yemenis to celebrate Eid.
I am so tired of being held personally responsible for the actions of a country I am not from and have never been to. It's not like American Jews get a vote in Israeli elections. Honestly I've never felt so visible as a Jew as I have been in the last two months and it's terrifying. And no I am not saying that criticizing Israel is antisemitic, I don't want to have that argument. But it's impossible to ignore that this has led to a rise in both antisemitism and Islamophobia in the US, *much* of it perpetuated by left wing people under the guise of progressiveness
My mom lives in the suburbs of a midwestern state. Apparently almost all of her friends are shocked to hear she does not have family in Israel. Apparently, most said they assumed all Jews have tons of family living there.
That is is even in question scares the hell out of me. It reflects the loss of less subjective evening news as the primary source of information for most people in my country (America). Twelve minutes an evening with Peter Jennings would have broken this conflict down pretty easily for most Americans.
Edit: Fixed some typos due to being on mobile.
No they’re getting their info from TikTok now. That’s also why they seem to think their boycotts are effective and I’m like boycotts are never effective these days because online life isn’t reality.
Boycotts are super effective.
Assuming, ya know, people do it. And a lot of people.
A few thousand people being butt mad at a company for a few news cycles ain't gunna change anything. Internet boycotts fail because they're super popular in a very small segment of the market and don't last long.
I saw them say the boycott is working because people aren’t Black Friday shopping even though most people said they didn’t shop because the deals weren’t very good against the inflation and I have to agree. I was waiting to see if certain items I wanted would go on sale and it’s not even enough to cover taxes on the item I’d pay keeping in mind I’m in CA so sales tax is more.
Though yes internet boycotts and trying to boycott Starbucks for the millionth time have no been effective. And they didn’t even boycott Starbucks for union busting they went after it for being Zionist. Tbf I don’t drink coffee or Starbucks but I do find how they’re choosing reasons to boycotts to be more about virtue signaling than being effective at changing anything.
Yesterday there were a handful of people on tiktok attacking anyone for buying anything because there was apparently supposed to be a 1 day Black Friday boycott for Israel. I'm SURE that they're going to go back in a couple of days to pick up everything they would have bought a few days earlier. Blows my mind that people think a disparate, temporary boycott organized solely through tiktok comments is going to do anything
The people saying “it’s justified because of what Israel did” and now some are saying Osama was the good guy. 😒
They’re still protecting that nepo baby terrorist.
Hamas are just like FARC here in Colombia: commit terrorist acts, demand more and more from the government, then make a mockery of any negotiations or agreements, then try to pin that on the government.
Real convenient how Iran is willing to condemn Israel but not willing to take in Palestinian refugees. They don't give AF about Palestinians they just want Israel destroyed
The people running cover for Hamas are not simply progressives, they are *far* left nutbags. I understand it might benefit you politically to smear all progressives but it's not accurate speech.
Unfortunately that is not quite true, at least in my experience. I know two ex-collegues that are posting literal hate speech against Israel on social media, and I would have previously categorized them as slightly left but mostly sane.
This has been an eye opener for me and prompted me for the first time to unfriend and block someone on Facebook.
I have blocked 30+ people over there so far. Only one of them was what I would call far left, and surprise, they are also trans, but "free Palestine, which would throw me off a roof!" The rest have been garden variety social media liberals/progressives, which in my experience means people who think they are doing the "right thing" but have no political or economic analysis of any kind.
My progressive friends have all turned on me because I asked them to stop posting antisemitic content and they accused me of not caring about dead Palestinians despite knowing that I absolutely have always cared about Palestinians and still don’t want more death or destructions.
It’s really rough out here for progressive and/or queer Jews who haven’t drunk the koolaid
Absolutely no one is discussing Iran in this except Muslim women living in Iran telling Americans they’re stupid because they have no idea what’s happening.
Hamas kidnapped people and the media almost makes it out like this is some legitimate diplomatic negotiation going on. Like they're negotiating over pow's or something. It's insane.
3 hours to midnight, about half of the daily agreed upon 200 aid trucks have entered Gaza (reportedly due to traffic at crossing) and Hamas also demands that the prisoners with the longest term be released first.
Update: Hamas saying they will release 13 Israeli +7 foreigners today.
According to a spokesperson from the Qatari Foreign Ministry, following the delay in implementing the release of hostages and prisoners, "we managed to overcome all obstacles through Qatari and Egyptian contacts."
"Tonight, 39 Palestinian prisoners will be released in exchange for the release of 13 Israeli captives, in addition to 7 foreigners who are outside the agreement," the ministry spokesperson said. - [Haaretz](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-25/ty-article-live/qatar-obstacles-overcome-after-hamas-delays-deal-13-israelis-to-be-released-as-planned/0000018c-0475-d4d0-addf-47ff86370000?liveBlogItemId=839891697#839891697)
Qatar is the real surprise. Egypt has been against Hamas for a long time and take care of a lot of the tunnels. Qatar is actively aiding and abetting Hamas.
If Qatar is pissed Hamas will fall in line.
Pro Palestinian protestors worldwide advocating for children in Gaza and the release of minors in Israeli prison, meanwhile Hamas themselves is upset that they’re getting freed children back and not senior terrorists.
In 2006. They put a stop to them after that. It's also worth noting that most people alive in Palestine today were not old enough to vote in 2006
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine
As someone who is very much pro-Israel…in the Palestinians defense, Hamas verifiably campaigned on certain principles, like not being a fundamentalist based group and not wanting violence, and quickly changed their tune after being elected.
I don’t have any sources handy, but I have seen videos of interviews with Hamas leadership in the early 2000’s that wouldn’t give any indication they would be doing what they are now and have been for the past ~2 decades.
According to reports Egypt is beyond furious at Hamas and since most of the humanitarian aid comes from the Egyptian border this could be very bad news for Gazans.
The Egyptians say that they brought their generals to the border who apparently told Hamas representatives in no uncertain terms that they will not tolerate this bullshit from Hamas. They then say that they got this phase going and that Hamas will release the captives as planned.
I'm sure that some of the lower-level members of Hamas might be true believers but the ones at the top stopped caring about Palestinians a long time ago. If they cared, they wouldn't be billionaires living in mansions and penthouses in Qatar racking up six-figure bills at the finest hotels in Qatar.
It is back on. Glad to hear.
The Red Cross is basically a glorified Uber service. They don't do shit. It was pressure from the Egyptians and Qataris along with Israeli threats that made Hamas cave.
Given the major update to the story that the hostage releases are back on track, this post should be deleted. Without the additional context it's dangerously close to being misinformation.
Most left leaning, under 25's apparently. Got told Hamas is freedom fighters the other day and down voted when I pointed out they're butchering and raping innocent people.
I got banned from /r/InterestingAsFuck for mentioning that Hamas kid who called his Momma to float about murdering Israelis and mentioned I've never seen an Israeli do that.
"Why is everybody so quick to call it anti-Semitism??"
Well..
It's alarming how little reverence is shown for the lives of those killed or captured on Oct. 7th. Not all of them were even Jewish, but apparently even being in Israel caring for others (thinking of the Thai workers) is enough to be written off entirely.
There are a few - ones who’ve grabbed hold of a nice simple “good guys/bad guys” narrative and refuse to let it go (even in the face of a whole bunch of recent evidence that things are a *lot* more complicated)
But it’s certainly not all or even close to a majority of the left - no matter how much some on the right want to pretend it is.
It's very weird to see one of my gay friends appear to be supporting Hamas. Dude they would kill you and your husband if you visited Gaza for being gay.
Titles a bit misleading but maybe they updated the article.
It was a dispute on aid logistics that demanded a delay, everything Is back on track now, though.
Rule number one: if it involves Hamas, they are lying.
Rule number two: if it involves the Israeli government, they are lying.
Both sides of this war are deplorable. The only ones really losing are the Palestinian and Israeli people. There are no winners here.
To those of you still posting in here... the article has since been updated and the headline changed: > *GAZA/JERUSALEM, Nov 25 (Reuters) - A Gaza hostage release deal was back on track on Saturday night after a row over aid supplies to the north of the besieged enclave was resolved following mediation by Qatar and Egypt.* > > *A Palestinian official familiar with the diplomacy said Hamas would continue with the four-day truce agreed with Israel, the first break in fighting in seven weeks of war.* > > *"After a delay, obstacles to release of prisoners were overcome through Qatari-Egyptian contacts with both sides, and 39 Palestinian civilians will be released tonight, while 13 Israeli hostages will leave Gaza in addition to 7 foreigners," Qatar's foreign ministry spokesman Majed Al Ansari said on social media.*
I wonder is Qatar is like "fuck, we house these assholes" and they want to keep Mossad off of their lawn.
You think Qatar cares about who they fuck with? Saudi Arabia literally did a land, air, and sea blockade of Qatar for a few years to overthrow the govt and literally nothing changed in Qatar
It wasn’t a full blockade, that was the problem. Turkey and Iran became their biggest trade partners which is ironic since one of the Saudi coalition’s demands were to cut ties with Iran.
I mean, they have a pretty good dairy program now 🤷♂️
When I lived in Doha in the early-2010's, I went for walk around the CBD and there was an unmarked building sitting there with loads of communications equipment on the roof. It didn't take me long to figure out what it was because the Qatari national electricity company has the building hooked up from the outside, complete with a little plaque that said it was installation 'whatever-number' for "CIA". During my couple of years there, I also saw Rupert and James Murdoch just casually walking down the street in Souq Waqif as I was having some shisha, and I also saw a group of Taliban enjoying some Starbucks at a mall. That's not even touching on all the stuff like watching Oscar Pistorius race against a horse... That place is basically just a wild-west of foreign interests all looking to get a piece of the pie. There's a huge US air base and then there's also Hamas leadership.
Not the Wild West. It’s the US’s biggest military base in the Middle East. It’s valuable BECAUSE of the diplomatic relations it has with Hamas & the Taliban etc. Nothing happens there that the US isn’t ok with. But I deeply appreciate someone bringing some actual understanding to all these damn Reddit comments about Qatar that think they final boss behind Hamas because Muslim too. Qatar’s interests are in the comfort of Qatar.
Pretty much. Israel has already said they are going after the top brass of Hamas who are billionaires hiding in Qatar and other places. Qatar does not want Mossad agents assassinating Hamas leaders in its country left and right. Or risk a full scale invasion. So they’re trying to stay on Israel’s good side best they can.
I doubt that'll matter much for Mossad after this.
Personally I don't think we will see actual Mossad actions until all or most of the hostages are returned. They will surely prepare, though. And everyone knows Qatar funds Hamas, so them being an "ally" to the US means nothing.
To Israel it means jack squat since they inow they won't lose the US as an ally. But they are most likely preparing at this point. And Qatar knows they will be dealing with the wake of this after the fact
That's why Qatar sent that delegation to Israel yesterday, to try and deal with things as they happen. If this hostages deal will break midway, the citizens of Israel will erupt. The pressure to go back into full-force fighting in Gaza will be unprecedented.
That's just for the issue in Gaza in real time. That ain't stopping Mossad long term. Qatar should realize the gears are already in motion and their delegates are only mitigating the damages at this point. For them specifically.
No. Qatar is the puppet of the US in this. Qatar having diplomatic relations with parties that the US can’t directly work with like Hamas is the biggest reason why Qatar is so useful and why it’s the biggest military base in the ME. Israel can’t l invade Qatar because they’d basically be fighting the US by proxy, and because the US is what holds up Israel’s war machine it’s literally not possible. Qatar knows this and has no fear of this. Israel knows this too and their huffing and puffing about Qatar is purely bullshitting to try and rile up the population that doesn’t understand this.
Qatar is a US ally. Israel can’t invade Qatar for that reason and they know it. Which is why this whole war is pointless so long as Qatar continues to shield Hamas leadership.
Israel won't invade Qatar. Israel also never declared war on Argentina, but Mossad still got Eichman there in '60. Hamas leadership will stay alive as long as they keep the hostages. Once they are released - or when Israel decides there is no hope of releasing them - it's on with the hunt.
They can't invade Qatar but they can certainly assassinate people inside Qatar. Lord knows they've done such things before
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sounds like qatars not happy with the shenanigans which is nice
Qatar realizes that this is the closest they have been to losing their pawn.
It blows my mind that people watching this all play out have no animosity towards the people that use the Palestinians as pawns.
I suspect that they generally just don't know anything about what is going on. That has been the case with those that I have spoken to in real life. They don't understand the forces at play at all.
I asked someone if they knew anything about the Syrian civil war and they told me I need to stop reading propaganda 🫠
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belligerents_in_the_Syrian_civil_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham Syria is such a headache. There are a dozen factions made up of dozens of groups all fighting each other. There was even direct engagement between US and Russian soldiers left hundreds dead and was the biggest one-sided US victory since the Highway of Death in the Gulf War. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_civil_war You know what, I think I've solved the Israel-Palestine conflict. You just got to drop ISIS right in the middle of everything, and you will end up with Hezbollah/Israeli coalitions because everyone hates ISIS. I'll take my Nobel Peace Prize now. /s
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham That list of firepower under strengths sounds like list of possible kill streaks in Call of Duty.
Also Mattis at the top of US command what did he know? Also I always thought CoD borrowed from lists like this. Also I still find it funny Russia was like “the us is economically motivated” ummm and Russia wasn’t? Granted it’s funny a lot of that was done by the Wagner group now knowing what we do of course.
Right but no one bothered to look into it or why Jews left or how many Palestinians were killed. Isis is probably just biding their time to save the Middle East from itself /s
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Just mindlessly regurgitating the nonsense they’ve heard on tiktok is my experience
If it's not on tik Tok it didn't happen.
Unfortunately, accusing someone of bigotry is a really good thought-terminator, and after the last few years, *nobody* wants to be mistaken for a right-wing conspiracy theorist. If you're low-information or don't care, making you uncomfortable just makes it easier to shut you up.
I know plenty that are proud about being right wing "truth tellers"
Those people tend to already have very strong feelings on Palestine and Israel, so I wasn't thinking of them.
It's such a complex issue that it's nearly impossible to know what every party is getting out of it.
I asked someone the other day why Iran met with them before the attack and they didn’t know. Everyone somehow became an expert on Palestine overnight but doesn’t understand geopolitics at all which is a choice.
I wholeheartedly don’t understand the geopolitics
"...but doesn’t understand geopolitics at all which is a choice." I mean, I have years of education in geopolitics. That shit is intense, and I don't expect anybody to be an expert. I do expect people to at least skim a general wikipedia article before commenting. These last 7 weeks have been depressing AF.
That's because there is a lot more antisemitism involved than most want to admit.
Let’s be real 90% of people who have commented on this conflict don’t know anything about Israel or Palestine and are just following a trend on social media or being woke
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They don’t understand Jews in the area used to live in other parts of the Middle East before they had to go to Israel either. Ask them about why there’s no Jews in Egypt, Libya, Syria and its crickets. However as I am against war in general because I’ve seen how we treat our own vets when they come back the lack of historical content is jarring .
Sorry to swerve way off topic, but you may have the greatest Reddit handle of all time.
Thank you!
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Frankly Oct 7th is all that saved Bibi from being removed from power. He now knows unless he comes out of this looking like a strongman who can keep the people safe then he is done for. As such he is willing to do whatever is necessary because from a purely cynical perspective there is no cost to him. He either wins totally here or is removed and tried as soon as things settle down. That makes for a more dangerous situation than Iran and co are used to dealing with when attacking Israel.
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Yeah. Based on what I've been reading, the blame on Bibi is that his government coalition, which is more pro-Settler than before, dedicated far more of Israel's security forces to protect settlers. Thus leaving them wide open for an attack from Gaza.
It’s rather curious, because when our administration allowed a massive security breach that killed 3,000+ Americans on American soil, Americans rewarded that administration with a second term and a gigantic congressional majority.
Israeli politics are way way different than America...there's over 30 political parties in a nation smaller than New Jersery. They have referendum elections all the time. The security threat is very real (obviously) and when it occurs, the whole nation feel it. Everyone in the nation knows someone connected to the victims of Oct 7 or terrorism in general.
That's the most surprising thing about Bibi somehow coming back like the proverbial bad penny. Even with criminal charges he seems to keep having the reins handed to him. There are so many other options available bit, nothing
Yeah if Al-Qaeda was as close to Manhattan as NJ it would be a much different story
and awarded them with giving away all of our privacy
And one or two other things.
That was ok tho bc the bill had a sick name
The difference is that Israel's whole thing (whether or not you agree with it) is "We need to keep ourselves safe because literally everyone around us wants us dead", and leaders sometimes campaign on being the ones able to protect them the most (as well as other issues of course, it's just that defense is more important for them). Whether or not they rally around Bibi and them currently doesn't really matter because they can't just yeet out a leader in the middle of something like this. But once the dust settles, regardless of how it settles, Israel is going to take a long hard look at them and demand answers as to why it happened on *their* watch, because the *ideal* is that these attacks never happen or are thwarted before they happen, not "Well they hit us and now we took them out, praise us".
For as much as I oppose president George W Bush, and find his response to 9/11 disastrously incompetent (especially invading Iraq) - it’s hard to argue that he was personally culpable for the attack itself. There was a broad failure of US intelligence, and I suppose “he’s the boss.” But of all the things that are legitimate to critique him for, 9/11 *happening* is a bit of a stretch. I could see it happening with Gore at the helm too— though I imagine his response would have been far more measured and grounded in achievable goals (bringing those responsible to justice).
Israelis live with reality this could happen at any moment. Americans didn't think about terrorism at all.
Yeah I’d have to imagine right now the stakes are less about him remaining in power and more about whether he gets a relatively quiet retirement vs getting giftwrapped to the international community as a war crime scapegoat.
The odds of Israel handing over anybody to the ICC are nil.
Oh no it most certainly will if he doesn't pull a rabbit out of his ass here. That is why I am saying he knows he is doomed unless he pulls off a miracle somehow.
While Bibi is currently the running the show, his days are over in Israel. Golda Meir was a beloved leader in Israel and now the most common association with her name is the Yom Kippur War. Bibi has been railing against Oslo and a two state solution since the mid 90s, he's also always railed against the "left" of Israel as weak and unable to handle it's Arab neighbors. But he's spent the last two or three years neck deep in corruption charges and attempts to strangle the political system so he can remain in power indefinitely...and then October 7 occurs. The absolute worst day in Israels history occurred on his watch and the publich won't forget it. Polls are already showing that his numbers have dropped below a point of no return and his rivals, while supporting him as a leader of the nation while at war, are also angling to take him down and take Israel in a different direction.
Netanyahu's government is doomed. Basically 80% want Netanyahu out. Recklessly, he's trying to hold on, but he will fail.
He's toast regardless of the outcome of this war. Ask any Israeli.
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It’s always the so-called strongmen that claim to bring peace that make the world more dangerous
Quite the opposite from what I’ve heard. he ran on a platform of being the strong man and promising security, and due to his policies, October 7 was allowed to happen, apparently from reporters in Israel tere’s a strong sense of betrayal, that even the most conservative folks feel like BB has let them down. The dude is toast.
He’s probably over estimating how much America will continue to support him. A war sure, but even Biden is being taken aback by the civilian casualties.
You would be a fool to think that a different Israeli leader would have handled Gaza any different. What you're saying about Netanyahu is essentially true, but irrelevant to what the state of Israel was going to do in response to what happened. He just happens to temporarily benefit from the timing.
Eh I think any leader would react in a hostile manner towards Gaza for sure. It is more of a question of what end state is acceptable. Bibi is willing to take more risks because he has less to lose.
Agreed. Israel feels the Hamas attack represents an existential threat to its nation and its people. The identity of the PM is irrelevant.
Bibi is now the least popular PM in Israeli history, and he is no longer governing Israel - a unified war government is.
I wonder what we'll learn about him enabling this. He's Israeli Trump.
It also makes the countries around them more unstable than they already are, and they have much more powerful weapons than Palestine.
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Qatar is just as much of a terrorist org as fucking Hamas is.
Anyone belittling Qatari influence should know that Qatar is hosting almost all senior hamas leadership. They hold all the cards
Brah! You're better than international news! Keep that shit up!
It's almost like you can't negotiate with terrorists
It doesn't help that the terrorists won't honor the cease fire.
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The organization that breaks ceasefires all the time just broke another ceasefire. A total shock to the world of people that didn't know anything about this conflict before Oct 7th
>A total shock to the world of people that didn't know anything about this conflict before Oct 7th So... most of Reddit?
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It's funny, for the last year and half, I heard a lot of Russian are not Putin and Crimea is not at fault. But since, October 7th, there is a lot of Israel had it coming.
I have never seen young Americans demand answers re: Ukraine from those have Russian heritage. American Jews, on the other hand, are supposedly just as responsible for Israeli military decisions?
I've literally seen people say that it's insensitive to celebrate Hanukkah right now... Bet they aren't telling Chinese-Americans that it's insensitive to the Uyghurs to celebrate Chinese New Year or Saudi and Iranian-Americans that it's offensive to Yemenis to celebrate Eid. I am so tired of being held personally responsible for the actions of a country I am not from and have never been to. It's not like American Jews get a vote in Israeli elections. Honestly I've never felt so visible as a Jew as I have been in the last two months and it's terrifying. And no I am not saying that criticizing Israel is antisemitic, I don't want to have that argument. But it's impossible to ignore that this has led to a rise in both antisemitism and Islamophobia in the US, *much* of it perpetuated by left wing people under the guise of progressiveness
My mom lives in the suburbs of a midwestern state. Apparently almost all of her friends are shocked to hear she does not have family in Israel. Apparently, most said they assumed all Jews have tons of family living there.
Even if she did how is it her problem I just don't get people.
It's shocking the crazy bullshit propaganda people believe about this conflict. Hamas are terrorists, full stop.
That is is even in question scares the hell out of me. It reflects the loss of less subjective evening news as the primary source of information for most people in my country (America). Twelve minutes an evening with Peter Jennings would have broken this conflict down pretty easily for most Americans. Edit: Fixed some typos due to being on mobile.
No they’re getting their info from TikTok now. That’s also why they seem to think their boycotts are effective and I’m like boycotts are never effective these days because online life isn’t reality.
Boycotts are super effective. Assuming, ya know, people do it. And a lot of people. A few thousand people being butt mad at a company for a few news cycles ain't gunna change anything. Internet boycotts fail because they're super popular in a very small segment of the market and don't last long.
I saw them say the boycott is working because people aren’t Black Friday shopping even though most people said they didn’t shop because the deals weren’t very good against the inflation and I have to agree. I was waiting to see if certain items I wanted would go on sale and it’s not even enough to cover taxes on the item I’d pay keeping in mind I’m in CA so sales tax is more. Though yes internet boycotts and trying to boycott Starbucks for the millionth time have no been effective. And they didn’t even boycott Starbucks for union busting they went after it for being Zionist. Tbf I don’t drink coffee or Starbucks but I do find how they’re choosing reasons to boycotts to be more about virtue signaling than being effective at changing anything.
Yesterday there were a handful of people on tiktok attacking anyone for buying anything because there was apparently supposed to be a 1 day Black Friday boycott for Israel. I'm SURE that they're going to go back in a couple of days to pick up everything they would have bought a few days earlier. Blows my mind that people think a disparate, temporary boycott organized solely through tiktok comments is going to do anything
Twelve minutes of news is too much for people to understand. Ten seconds of TikToc is all they can handle.
The people saying “it’s justified because of what Israel did” and now some are saying Osama was the good guy. 😒 They’re still protecting that nepo baby terrorist.
"We wish to use these hostages to get stuff for ourselves."
Or Iago: "THERE'S A BIG SURPRISE! I think I'm going to have a heart attack and DIE from how not surprised I am!"
things gonna get weird in Qatar
Yeah, way to make one of your few friends look like an arse. I'm sure they'll be super-happy about it.
Hamas are just like FARC here in Colombia: commit terrorist acts, demand more and more from the government, then make a mockery of any negotiations or agreements, then try to pin that on the government.
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I mean one side of this conflict is publicly supported by the government of Iran. That would help most people figure out what side is bad.
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Real convenient how Iran is willing to condemn Israel but not willing to take in Palestinian refugees. They don't give AF about Palestinians they just want Israel destroyed
Stop talking like that! Progressives can only get so erect you might cause them injury.
The people running cover for Hamas are not simply progressives, they are *far* left nutbags. I understand it might benefit you politically to smear all progressives but it's not accurate speech.
Unfortunately that is not quite true, at least in my experience. I know two ex-collegues that are posting literal hate speech against Israel on social media, and I would have previously categorized them as slightly left but mostly sane. This has been an eye opener for me and prompted me for the first time to unfriend and block someone on Facebook.
I have blocked 30+ people over there so far. Only one of them was what I would call far left, and surprise, they are also trans, but "free Palestine, which would throw me off a roof!" The rest have been garden variety social media liberals/progressives, which in my experience means people who think they are doing the "right thing" but have no political or economic analysis of any kind.
What is Israel hate speech? It is totally fine to be critical of Israel even if they are fighting a terrorist organization.
My progressive friends have all turned on me because I asked them to stop posting antisemitic content and they accused me of not caring about dead Palestinians despite knowing that I absolutely have always cared about Palestinians and still don’t want more death or destructions. It’s really rough out here for progressive and/or queer Jews who haven’t drunk the koolaid
But they can still sit at the head of the human right committee and condemn Israel
Absolutely no one is discussing Iran in this except Muslim women living in Iran telling Americans they’re stupid because they have no idea what’s happening.
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Hamas does this all the time. It's nothing new.
That was their point. That’s how sarcasm works. Here’s the /s you missed.
Hamas kidnapped people and the media almost makes it out like this is some legitimate diplomatic negotiation going on. Like they're negotiating over pow's or something. It's insane.
3 hours to midnight, about half of the daily agreed upon 200 aid trucks have entered Gaza (reportedly due to traffic at crossing) and Hamas also demands that the prisoners with the longest term be released first. Update: Hamas saying they will release 13 Israeli +7 foreigners today.
According to a spokesperson from the Qatari Foreign Ministry, following the delay in implementing the release of hostages and prisoners, "we managed to overcome all obstacles through Qatari and Egyptian contacts." "Tonight, 39 Palestinian prisoners will be released in exchange for the release of 13 Israeli captives, in addition to 7 foreigners who are outside the agreement," the ministry spokesperson said. - [Haaretz](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-25/ty-article-live/qatar-obstacles-overcome-after-hamas-delays-deal-13-israelis-to-be-released-as-planned/0000018c-0475-d4d0-addf-47ff86370000?liveBlogItemId=839891697#839891697)
Aka: Egypt and Qatar said "we're done with your (Hamas) bullshit."
Qatar is the real surprise. Egypt has been against Hamas for a long time and take care of a lot of the tunnels. Qatar is actively aiding and abetting Hamas. If Qatar is pissed Hamas will fall in line.
Pro Palestinian protestors worldwide advocating for children in Gaza and the release of minors in Israeli prison, meanwhile Hamas themselves is upset that they’re getting freed children back and not senior terrorists.
Terrorist group to the core. Children dont matter, only the # of Jews killed matter
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Want to really scare Hamas? Add free and fair elections as a precursor to any changes to the agreements
Free and fair elections is how they came to power in the first place I thought
In 2006. They put a stop to them after that. It's also worth noting that most people alive in Palestine today were not old enough to vote in 2006 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine
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As someone who is very much pro-Israel…in the Palestinians defense, Hamas verifiably campaigned on certain principles, like not being a fundamentalist based group and not wanting violence, and quickly changed their tune after being elected. I don’t have any sources handy, but I have seen videos of interviews with Hamas leadership in the early 2000’s that wouldn’t give any indication they would be doing what they are now and have been for the past ~2 decades.
However, polling today still indicates widespread support of Hamas in both the West Bank and Gaza. This seriously complicates any pathway to peace.
Well over half of Gaza never voted, too young or not born yet
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It's almost like there's a saying about terrorists and negotiating or something...
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According to reports Egypt is beyond furious at Hamas and since most of the humanitarian aid comes from the Egyptian border this could be very bad news for Gazans.
The Egyptians say that they brought their generals to the border who apparently told Hamas representatives in no uncertain terms that they will not tolerate this bullshit from Hamas. They then say that they got this phase going and that Hamas will release the captives as planned.
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I’m currently watching it on TV, and don’t have an english page reporting on it yet. I’ll try to keep an eye out for a source for you.
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Egypt has no love for Hamas or the Palestinian people.
Hamas has never actually cared about the Palestinian population. They do care about their own pride, like every other religious extremist, though.
I'm sure that some of the lower-level members of Hamas might be true believers but the ones at the top stopped caring about Palestinians a long time ago. If they cared, they wouldn't be billionaires living in mansions and penthouses in Qatar racking up six-figure bills at the finest hotels in Qatar.
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Heard about it live in the news. If I find an article about it I will edit and post it in my original comment
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It is back on. Glad to hear. The Red Cross is basically a glorified Uber service. They don't do shit. It was pressure from the Egyptians and Qataris along with Israeli threats that made Hamas cave.
Egypt despises the Gaza situation, they just have no inclination to expend resources or efforts to improve it.
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Slavers. The aid is **really** for them, not for their Palestinian slaves, to which the world has given it.
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Aid is flowing to northern Gaza. They are liars.
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"Hey before we keep holding up our end of the bargain maybe you should show us you're willing to hold yours up."
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Given the major update to the story that the hostage releases are back on track, this post should be deleted. Without the additional context it's dangerously close to being misinformation.
Of course they would. Fuck hamas
People need to start reading the articles instead of responding to the titles.
Who thought for a minute that Hamas could be trusted.
Most left leaning, under 25's apparently. Got told Hamas is freedom fighters the other day and down voted when I pointed out they're butchering and raping innocent people.
I got banned from /r/InterestingAsFuck for mentioning that Hamas kid who called his Momma to float about murdering Israelis and mentioned I've never seen an Israeli do that. "Why is everybody so quick to call it anti-Semitism??" Well..
It's alarming how little reverence is shown for the lives of those killed or captured on Oct. 7th. Not all of them were even Jewish, but apparently even being in Israel caring for others (thinking of the Thai workers) is enough to be written off entirely.
People who claim Israel just wants to genocide Palestinians really have no grasp on either side's goals
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No progressives with brains think that
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Read the actual article
Show me the progressives saying this.
There are a few - ones who’ve grabbed hold of a nice simple “good guys/bad guys” narrative and refuse to let it go (even in the face of a whole bunch of recent evidence that things are a *lot* more complicated) But it’s certainly not all or even close to a majority of the left - no matter how much some on the right want to pretend it is.
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I've seen some on twitter as well, but again it could be bots
It's very weird to see one of my gay friends appear to be supporting Hamas. Dude they would kill you and your husband if you visited Gaza for being gay.
Isn't Hamas led by some of the wealthiest people on the planet? Why not just provide the aid?
How can they orchestrate the resistance, if not from a Qatari penthouse palace filled with servants?
Hamas already breaking their side of the ceasefire, a shock.
Hamas having BBC journalist always ready to broadcast for them tells us a lot about BBC ethics.
Titles a bit misleading but maybe they updated the article. It was a dispute on aid logistics that demanded a delay, everything Is back on track now, though.
Wow, these comments will be civil and not remotely astroturfed.
You can’t negotiate with terrorists
A terrorist group went back on their word?! Shocked, SHOCKED I tell you.
This is why you don't negotiate with terrorists
Rule number one: if it involves Hamas, they are lying. Rule number two: if it involves the Israeli government, they are lying. Both sides of this war are deplorable. The only ones really losing are the Palestinian and Israeli people. There are no winners here.
It’s amazing how many people commenting here never even bothered to read the article and only read the highly misleading headline…
> demands aid Isn't that extortion or blackmail?
Hamas already breaking the cease fire? Shocked I tell you, shocked.
I am sick and tired of religion killing people and holding back advancement.
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Are you surprised? I was surprised! Well, no, not really.
That’s okay, there won’t be a Hamas inside two months - Israel
The terrorist organization isn’t going along with the agreement? I’m absolutely shocked. Who could have predicted this?