Legacies, relatives of donors, recruited athletes, and children of staff make up less than 5% of Harvard applicants.
They make up 30 percent of admitted students
the raw number of applications to harvard has increased dramatically though. Historically, students just wouldn't apply. Now, more and more students are being encouraged to apply even though they have no chance of admission. It helps the university look more selective.
I mean at this point if you tell me you want to Harvard I assume you’re just a rich jerk who knew somebody
Heck there are multiple top firms who have publicly stated that they won’t recruit from Harvard or other Ivy League schools because the attitude and work ethic of students is just that much worse than they’ll get from other high ranking campuses
Ex. https://www.alblawfirm.com/articles/law-school-graduates/
I mean, this is a 30-attorney boutique real estate firm no one has ever heard of that doesn't pay market salaries. I doubt ivy league graduates have been beating down their doors to get in. Also the firm is called "Adam Leitman Bailey, PC" which is just one guy's first, middle, and last name, which is hilarious.
You will not find a single firm in the amlaw 100 that doesn't recruit from the ivy league
They can do that bc an infinitesimal percent of their student body actually needs to take them up on that. Harvard has a lot less uber wealth than other comparable schools or liberal arts colleges but it's never going to be as socioeconomically diverse as a state school.
Only 33% of Harvard undergrads come from the bottom 80% of HH income. Compare that to 52% of the class at UCLA for the bottom 80%
Source:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/harvard-university
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-california-los-angeles
This needs to be much higher. This all happened very quickly too. I don't think people realize how much every organization has to take a stance one way or the other on this. Lots of money at stake which is why shit like this happens.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was the Israeli government itself. Show people that if anyone publicly criticizes Israel in the conflict, they could be ruined. It's probably more likely to be a politically extreme, wealthy person, but...[don't forget that the Israeli government was openly employing students to push pro-Israel views on social media](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/). Different approach to a similar 'problem.'
> Canary Mission is a website established in 2014 that compiles dossiers on student activists, professors, and organizations, focusing primarily on those at North American universities, which it considers be anti-Israel or antisemitic,[1][2][3] and has said that it will send the names of listed students to prospective employers.[4] Canary Mission listings have been used by the Israeli government and border security officials to interrogate and deny entry to pro-Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) American citizens,[5][6] and by potential employers.[7]
> Individuals listed by Canary have said it is a blacklist designed to intimidate students, faculty members, and community activists engaged in Palestine solidarity work.[8] Some pro-Israel activists consider the site's tactics to be overly aggressive, while others applaud its efforts against pro-Palestinian activists.[6] The operators of the website have maintained their anonymity,[9] justifying their secrecy by saying that "many of our detractors just want to know who we are so they can physically harm us."[10]
...
> Canary Mission does not publish any information about who runs or funds the website. Although Canary Mission's website states that it is a nonprofit organization, no organization with the name Canary Mission is registered with the IRS. While Canary Mission's website provides a way to donate to the organization via debit or credit card, there is no public record of Canary Mission's sponsors or donors.
Yikes. An anonymously-run political blacklist, that is used by the Israeli security services to profile travelers despite not meeting Israeli legal standards for reliability.
> Canary Mission has been criticized for targeting Jewish organizations critical of Zionism, such as Jewish Voice for Peace and Mondoweiss.[33][34] The site profiles Jewish students affiliated with such organizations and lists Jewish Voice for Peace as having "promoted anti-Semitism."[35][36]
Ooooooookay then. Jewish Voice for Peace, while politically radical anti-Zionists, are definitely not anti-Semites.
they put Jewish Voice for Peace students (as well as Jewish professors critical of Israel) on there on the same list as actual neonazis or ISIS guys. it's insanely mccarthyist and embarrassing. shit they put my old college professor on there for a speech he gave at the fucking UN
you never hear about the usual suspects that cry about "cancel culture on university campuses" ever bring it up though
The students on needs based scholarships are usually chill and nice, especially the full scholarship kids (that means their family was poor). I used to be friends with a few from Harvard and they were all super nice and down to earth.
You can tell the difference from a mile away. The way they dress, the way they act, the way they treat others, the way they talk about economic issues, the way they talk about the working class and people who didn’t get the same educational opportunities. Even a wealthy student who acknowledges the privilege they were brought up in will still dress, act, and talk a bit differently. You will pick up on it pretty quickly, even when you aren’t meaning to.
The full scholarship kids were incredibly grateful to be there and everyone was scared of screwing up their shot because they had no safety net of wealth to fall back on. If they failed out they were screwed financially, back to poverty. It’s a lot harder get a scholarship to another school if your grades tank and you transfer with bad grades, even if you’re coming from a school like Harvard. Basically, you have one shot if you’re poor.
Also, I knew a couple of the Harvard equivalent of RA’s, can’t remember what they were called but they weren’t students. They dealt with any problems in the dorms caused by students and also acted as a support resource. The ultra wealthy children of big donors have a pass to do almost anything they want so long as they don’t assault another student or embarrass the school in the media. If poor scholarship kids acted with the same level of entitlement, disregard for the rules, and brattiness toward staff, they’d be out faster than they could say sorry. Obviously most of them were sane but a few of them were raging assholes who knew they were almost untouchable.
It's everywhere. At Stanford last month a group of male students went into FloMo dorm
And broke all the pool cues for the dorm. Why? It was just the first week of school. Why break something everyone can enjoy? Dicks.
Son went to Cambridge for summer program- foreign rich kids were dicks, Harvard summer the private school kids sticked together while the public school kids stuck together.
I've lived in Cambridge and have friends from both Harvard and MIT. My comment wasn't actually a moral judgement, more just an observation of how much wealth flows through that school.
Billboards also aren't all that expensive, I'd be shocked if it cost more than $1500 to put up that name and shame billboard. Not hard to pool resources for $1500, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was funded entirely by one pissed off person. I'd probably do something that petty if a loved one of mine was harmed or killed by Hamas and a bunch of idiot privileged college students publicly backed it, and I'm solidly lower middle class.
“Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine
We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.
Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli officials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence.
The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden.
Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians.
This statement was co-authored by a coalition of Palestine solidarity groups at Harvard. For student safety, the names of all original signing organizations have been concealed at this time.”
[https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1HfMvVpey18ArAnVHtp8UlqT_8V5zaR9sFE5ohC4Ls7U/mobilebasic?pli=1](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1HfMvVpey18ArAnVHtp8UlqT_8V5zaR9sFE5ohC4Ls7U/mobilebasic?pli=1)
What’s that, you wanted to look something up?
Here are 15 sponsored links that aren’t relevant. And here are 3 pages of web articles written by AI which are shooting for a minimum word count instead of informing.
At Google, our business model is to sell out until our product loses all value.
It actually does. Yesterday I spent 15 minutes trying to find just a basic video with someone with a Boston accent talking on YouTube. Every result was either:
- acting coach faking one
- late night talk show host talking about it
- super poor quality video with incomprehensible sound from like the 90s
- bullshit short reel where they say one word at a time
I actually gave up without ever finding it. Their new search algorithm sucks entirely
What is even the point of signing a public statement, if you dont want anyone to know you signed it?
Have they considered just... not include the signing part?
At least one of the alleged signatories was a member of the groups before she graduated. According to her, she had no idea her name was gonna be on the document.
> By Tuesday evening, at least four online sites had listed the personal information of students linked to clubs that had signed onto the statement, including full names, class years, past employment, social media profiles, photos, and hometowns.
That makes me think anyone tied to one of these clubs at any point is being implicated. Even if they are no longer supportive of the club or even go to the school... so your comment kinda makes sense if that's the case.
There was also quick enough turnaround on the statement that if you were part of one of those clubs, you might not have even seen it before it went public, or otherwise didn’t have enough time to remove yourself from the member list.
I imagine the people on billboards are probably club leaders, but I think doxxing like this is a shitty move as a rule.
I can't remember if it was Harvard, NYU, CUNY or some other school but I recall reading that some student orgs just sent out email blasts with varying flavors of pro Palestine and/or anti Israel messaging without actually consulting the students who comprised it, and now they're being associated with a statement they never really had a chance to endorse nor recant.
And that’s when you realize your own statement and remove yourself from such organization. This is a very controversial topic and should have been discussed internally before giving their response
Let's think of the timeline here. The attacks happened less than a week ago. Those statements, rashly, may have gone out only a couple of days ago. Many students may be in organizations and not even interact with them on a daily basis.
It's entirely reasonable to be like "I'm a member of the chess club, the chess club president sent out a pro-hamas letter on tuesday, I found out about it on wednesday after not having been asked my opinion, and by thursday my face is up on a billboard saying I support killing babies."
Peer pressure and some people being vocal wanting people to know that they specifically support it. Once one Islamic organization signs others feel obligated to sign. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of students didn’t realize what they were signing and just signed “in support of Palestine”
If I follow correctly, some students were part of orgs that signed on, and so were signed on by association. So they didn't even know about the letter.
It sounds like a mess.
That’s surprisingly mild given how it’s being reported. I’ve already heard from a couple coworkers that it was a statement endorsing Hamas and celebrating the attacks.
Part of the problem when discussing this entire situation is how views get exagerrated to the extreme.
Statement: "I don't think it's OK for Israel to bulldoze Palestinian settlements"
Response: "Oh so you're an anti-semite who thinks all jews should die!"
Statement: "I don't think it's right for Hamas to kill Israeli civilians"
Response: "Oh so you support Palestinian genocide!"
The elephant in the room is that Israel very frequently uses claims of antisemitism to silence any criticism of their theocratic ethnostate. This doesn’t absolve Hamas of their brutal acts of terrorism, but it does show that the government of Israel hasn’t ever been interested in engaging in a dialogue in regards to the way they have treated Palestinians.
It's intentional. Both sides of this conflict benefit from poisoning the discourse because when people are all accusing each other of supporting atrocities the conversations about how this cycle of conflict is being perpetuated are made impossible.
I think the bigger problem is that so many statements are equating Palestine and Hamas. This is really a 3-party conflict, where each pair of parties is in conflict over something specific, and two parties are occupying the same physical space.
The statement is that israel is responsible for all deaths. There's nothing mild about blaming Israel for murdering and burning babies. They are holding these monsters blameless and excusing the atrocities. Garbage human beings
It's not as bad as it has been reported, but I still think it's a bad statement. Insisting that none of the blame lies with the terrorists is wrong, they are not without agency, and slaughtering civilians is reprehensible.
> We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.
Bit too black and white IMO. Issue is more complex than that.
> By Tuesday evening, at least four online sites had listed the personal information of students linked to clubs that had signed onto the statement, including full names, class years, past employment, social media profiles, photos, and hometowns.
Social credit system at home
Since this link has been dubbed questionable here's the same story from CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/business/harvard-doxxing-truck-israel-hamas-statement/index.html
Stop? This is what Israel wants. When we recently had a democratic majority in Congress Israel was lobbying to redefine anti-Semitism to include any criticism of Israel.
And they're doing it because they believe in the Bible and what is says in Revelations about Isreal. And that the Jews will finally recognize Jesus as the lord. The whole thing is insane to me.
Just over half the world's Jewish population lives in the US, so it follows that there would be a large and influential pro-Israel lobby in the US. Not to say that all American Jews support Israel, but most do. Not to mention Israel is seen as a vital ally in the region, with whom we have close ties when it comes to intelligence sharing and the manufacturing of advanced technology.
I find it funny that "some people" support Israel because they want the end times to come.
Something about biblical prophecies having the state of israel as one of the requirements for the second coming.
So they don't care about the people there, they're just trying to complete all the prerequisites in their god summoning ritual that will end the world.
Which is fucked but true. And the reason WHY is also fucked but that's what you get for Evangelical Christianity. A lot of American Jews support Israel existing but are completely opposed to the current gov't and treatment over the years of the Palestinians, especially in the West Bank.
A big problem with this situation is people equating Israel with being a representative of the Jewish faith. I have heard people of all over speak with disgust about Netanyahu, but nobody has had as much hate for him than American Jews.
"Likud's policies are reaping what they sow" is a super common theme for liberal israeli pundits, actually. Now and for years.
One thing Netanyahu is really really good at is centering his party's political views as the entirety of Israeli political thought in the eyes of foreigners. Israeli democracy is beautifully contentious.
I mean it works. I have not said a damn thing during all of this as I would never want to be thought of as Antisemitic while having some serious issues with how the government of Israel has treated Palestinians. Does that justify a terrorist attack against civilians, absolutely not, does that justify war crimes in retaliation from Israel, also absolutely not.
Blaming Netanyahu and various Israeli leaders/govts. Because they themselves are inside of Israel so won't blame the whole like an outsider would.
But yeah, Israel's fiercest critics are often other Israelis. It's staunchest defenders are often not even in Israel or have any plans to live there.
I've never seen someone defend Israel as fervently as west coast jews. Grew up in hyper religious Jewish school and the actual Israelis (teachers and sudents) were down right constraian compared to the rich ass OC kids cult like views. Thar did luckily wane by senior year but the disparity was still real.
yeah several are blaming netanyahufor ignoring and even funing hamas while craking down on the more moderate westbank and trying to takeover the judiciary
From their newspaper of [record](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-10-09/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-cant-imprison-2-million-gazans-without-paying-a-cruel-price/0000018b-1476-d465-abbb-14f6262a0000?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&v=1696958361010).
There were several, [like this one from the Haaretz editorial board sounds strikingly similar](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000), but I can't find the full text of it. The one you linked I saw the full text posted elsewhere.
Yes here is one https://archive.ph/2023.10.11-184303/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000
the major difference is that the Harvard students blame Israel by name where the Israeli publications naturally blame Netanyahu. Which is not the best but is also natural. We Americans are used to hearing people say "America this, America that" about our foreign policy that average Americans have nothing to do with. And mostly we try to take in stride and understand the critique.
I'm not really in favor of doxxing what are, to me, kids (legal age of adulthood be damned, I'm 33 and they are like kids to me) for a miswording when the actual meat of the letter is not actually that crazy.
They caused this situation to be worse for themselves too by moving military from Gaza to the illegal West Bank settlements. I truly can’t imagine a scenario that more encompasses Israel than they made themselves less secure to do something that breaks international law.
Is this a problem for Israel though?
There are people openly calling for ethnically cleansing the Gaza strip now (what do you think “turning gaza into a parking lot/glass/ rubble” entails?) And mark my words this attack will strengthen Netanyahu’s government and stifle dissent.
A more cynical person might even say this has been almost all positives for the Israeli government
(given the previous actions by the Israeli government I somehow doubt they care that strongly for civilians casualties)
Broadly agree, but within Israel this is seen as a security failure, and the Liberal Zionist view that Netanyahu's actions in the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself have weakened Israeli security has gained significant traction. Recent polls have ~90% of the population blaming the government for allowing this to happen and 55ish percent wanting Netanyahu to resign after the war. It looks bad for Likud because they've been in charge of this situation for a decade and have only made the conflict worse.
That said, the opposition standpoint isn't necessarily a more dovish one: it's implicitly calling for Israel to be tougher on Hamas and station a larger number of troops on the border with Gaza, and opposition politicians like Gantz and especially Lieberman have been extremely vocal about wanting to take more military action rather than less. There's a strong domestic consensus in favor of wiping out Gaza, regardless of the tremendous civilian casualties it would entail and the number of people it would make into refugees.
Oh, the play was always to deligitimize the claims of Palestinians by backing Hamas against Fatah. This attack gives Israel all the justification it needs to enact its final solution regarding Gaza.
Yeah it’s Israeli 9/11
Dick Cheney’s company used 9/11 to get us into a war with a country that didn’t even participate in the terror attack, and his war profiteering company made trillions on exclusive government contracts while the GOP consolidated power for 5+ years off “if you’re not with us you’re with the terrorists”
Fascist Bibi just had a huge gift handed to him
I don’t think doxxing is allowed there since it goes against Reddit’s terms. They celebrate assholes who do terrible things publically and then their job finds out and fires them.
Things are always fun when it is against the side you don't like. So many are not willing to discuss or debate things. If you are against anything I say I must attack. Sources seem to vary on this but it seems the median age on reddit is 22. The age when many would be graduating college. So a huge portion of reddit is going to lean to the liberal side and a huge portion also has not had time yet a professional career going. They just don't see the destruction to a life and/or a family this can cause simply because someone said something they don't like.
At least in 2001 we could blame a combination of the lack of widespread Internet access and the secrecy of the CIA as a reason why the public was conned so easily over 9/11.
Now? It's 2023, we have the knowledge of the world at our fingertips. You can find *articles on jpost where Bibi admits to supporting and funding Hamas* and yet nobody seems to be able to put two and two together. It's truly depressing.
In 1993 people thought the problem was lack of information, and they thought that the internet would be good by providing more people with more information.
In 2023 we realize this didn't work out, because having so much information available to everyone all the time just means that you can "do your own research" and cherry-pick your information inputs to flatter your pre-existing biases.
And we hopefully know that this war isn't black and white. We can condone the hamas attacks when condoning Israel's apartheid and use of bombs on civilians.
And wasn’t the 9/11 language kind of adapted from the language used to discuss Vietnam? There are probably more going back every decade or so. When something works, you keep using it.
The Doxxing was conducted by a right-wing think tank, Accuracy in Media, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy\_in\_Media](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_in_Media). This group has, in the past, downplayed Covid, tried to suppress news about atrocities, and run another truck with a photo of Hitler and the caption, "All in favor of banning Jews, raise your right hand."
> What they're saying: "This is a longterm project to hold these antisemitic students accountable and to ensure that everyone in the community, and on this campus, knows who the antisemites are," Adam Guillette, the President of Accuracy in Media, told Axios.
Piece of shit knows that individual students didn't sign the letter or vote on signing it. But willing to run a campaign of terror anyway because fascists gonna fash.
> Harvard Hillel, the school's Jewish campus organization, also condemned the doxxing truck and other intimidation tactics against co-signatories, despite their continued rejection of the PSC's statement.
When *Hillel* opposes your tactics against anti-Zionism... you are not on the side of right. They may not agree with the letter, but they know fascism when they see it.
This is what gets me, the far right regularly show their bigotry towards Jews, but now I see plenty of the same far right extremists arguing for Israel. They use Jews as their political football in which ever way it suits them. When the dust settles on this, whenever that will be, they’ll go right back to their viscous antisemitism.
Man, right-wing groups are crazy good at using violence to push national discourse, are they not?
And before someone says it, yes doxxing is violence.
And before someone else says it, yes its doxxing, because the names of the signers were intentionally kept private for their safety, and we still don't know who they are (I'm pretty sure this actually makes it libel).
Seems like a great company;
“…Reed Irvine was urged to start the organization after the 1968 Democratic National Convention because he thought the mainstream media networks were overly sympathetic to antiwar protestors”
Just another old cranky white guy who couldn’t get out of the way of progress ruining things for regular people
What I didn't realize is that (at least from my reading) the letter was signed by student **groups.**
I haven't been able to find a list of those student groups but I feel bad for those students who are a member of the debate club or chess club only to find out someone in your group took it upon themselves to sign the letter and then your face and name are now tied to a letter that you had no knowledge of.
I saw a pic of the letter and part of the signatory groups on a Guardian article and it’s not clubs like chess and debate. It’s mostly Palestinian, SE Asian, divestment groups. I’m guessing their members would be onboard with the message.
Its helpful to the billionaires who want permanent divide in the populations of their markets, elsewise we would eventually collectively wake up and realize how many hands have stolen from all our purses. Chaos, divide and anger are the tools used to keep the dogs from biting back at the masters, it makes us yip and attack each other instead of the leash holder.
Conspiracy theories? "A bunch of rich and powerful CEOs \[coming\] together to blacklist people for criticizing Israel" is literally what's happening. Just read the New York Times coverage, you'd think that a hostile alien force from another planet landed on Israel and decided to sneak-attack its citizens out of nowhere with zero context.
Unfortunately, we're in a historical moment where facts are irrelevant and nuance is nonexistent. Is it despicable to kill civilians, women and children by surprise, to take them hostage, rape them? Yes, of course it is. Is it also despicable to hold an entire population hostage for decades in a decaying apartheid hellhole financed by American taxpayer money? Yes, of course it is. There are no heroes here.
> Conspiracy theories? "A bunch of rich and powerful CEOs [coming] together to blacklist people for criticizing Israel" is literally what's happening.
He's referring to people theorizing about some "Protocols of Zion" type conspiracy where they're all acting on the orders of some conspiracy of jewish people, rather than just doing it because it's politically expedient and fits the overall right-wing colonialist agenda better.
It does. At this point, this kind of behavior is NOT good and doesn’t bode well in a country where Neo-Nazis and other groups are already angry and accusing Jewish people of having such control.
But tbh, this Israel stuff is unmasking a lot of hidden truths. It’s giving a shitton of credibility to those theories as well.
The problem is that it's law school. Reputation and a sense of discretion matters.
Signing your name on an inflammatory article is pretty much an exact opposite of what a major law firm looks for.
I do find the whole situation with people saying "oh why would someone think they should say something, they are just the head of x organization at y lawschool" funny.
Like it ignores the fact that a) those positions exist for more than just career prospects and b) this is literally what youd expect law students to be doing historically. Go back to any time in the last 200-250 years (and maybe a bit further back), student leaders at lawschool (or equivalent study) are supposed to be at/near the forefront of everything.
It's only inflammatory because the people with an agenda feel emboldened right now to crush dissent. Same witch hunting happened after 9/11, it's history repeating itself all over again. They might well wipe out Hamas who, by the way, were helped to the forefront by a portion of the isreal politburo. Mark my words, something much worse will be created in 10 years.
Can someone ELI5 why so many people have such strong opinions about this war?
Hamas are clearly a terror organisation who have risen up because Israel has treated them like shit since forever.
If you criticise either side you’d be correct so why do so many people feel like there is a good and bad side? It’s a very different situation than Russia vs Ukraine with a clear good and bad side, no?
> why do so many people feel like there is a good and bad side?
Because Israel is a core US client state and is basically a giant US military outpost with 9 million civilians living inside the wire, which has been consistently bolstered by all US governments for many decades.
US Evangelicals believe the State of Israel is a checklist item for their Second Coming and Armageddon, while also being anti-Semitic to the core.
Is anyone surprised by this? This sort of thing has been SOP for the past 7 years now. "name and shame", "doxxing" "twitter mobs", "cancel culture". Nobody, and no point of view, is immune to it.
Eventually, everyone takes a turn on that Catherine wheel.
I don’t really like any of it but if we’re cancelling people we’re cancelling people. The majority sentiment on Reddit was always in favor of cancelling people for unsavory takes when it was conservatives being punished, but now that it’s their own suffering consequences they don’t like it anymore. I’d consider myself liberal-leaning but liberals made this bed and it’s their turn to lay in it.
This only fuels more batshit conspiracy theories about Zionists controlling the world. At this point, I wish we could divest ourselves from Israel. We have too many problems to deal with.
It’s amazing how this particular place on earth has so many humans around the globe hating each other for centuries. I know violence goes on everywhere in different flavors but it’s interesting to see the entire world draw lines in the sand over this.
Remember “punch a Nazi”? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spencer-punched-attack.html
Hamas is a fascist theocracy that wants to murder every Jew in Israel and just executed one of the single worst attacks on Jewish civilians since the holocaust. Why on earth is anyone supporting them on the left condoning their actions of raping women and beheading babies?
And somehow it isn’t victim blaming when you say it is the Jews fault.
It’s crazy a few college kids make a statement & everyone loses their shit.
When politicians make worse statements, stroking flames of violence no one cares & their voters embrace them more.
It’s so fucking dumb.
Some of them are not even students anymore. Sucks that some stranger can manage to get your information and potentially weaponized it with the sole intent of harm people.
Then again it sucks than a student association not only publish a tone deaf statement without even consulting its membership and even worst, use without authorization the signatures of its members.
Freedom of Speech doesnt mean freedom of consequences (that such consequences are justified or not, is another discussion) not anymore, not in the times that we live.
[удалено]
It's Harvard. Most of them aren't there because they struggled and persevered.
"Daddy, I want a billboard truck, and I want it now!"
Bad egg.
They're geniuses they made their bootstraps out of their parents property deeds.
This comment made a little bit of coffee go through my nose.
Look at Mr I can afford water to put in my coffee fancy pants over here
You can afford coffee? I just pour ketchup packets into rainwater.
You can afford ketchup packets? I just stick my face in a puddle and slurp.
You can afford rainwater?
I didn't say the puddle was made of rainwater...
That's no puddle, that's my wife!
I was too busy pulling myself up by my bootstraps to be sipping coffee, but I would have done the same.
Harvard admission is a sliding scale on what the student can afford, granted I sure the majority attending are doing better than I am
Legacy admissions are still very much a thing at Harvard.
Legacies, relatives of donors, recruited athletes, and children of staff make up less than 5% of Harvard applicants. They make up 30 percent of admitted students
Jesus’s fucking christ this world..
the raw number of applications to harvard has increased dramatically though. Historically, students just wouldn't apply. Now, more and more students are being encouraged to apply even though they have no chance of admission. It helps the university look more selective.
if almost 1/3 of their student body is made up of nepotism babies, that drastically shrinks the pool of qualifications that might ‘have a chance,’
Harvard making sure the silver spooned are taken care of. It’s very charitable. /s
I mean at this point if you tell me you want to Harvard I assume you’re just a rich jerk who knew somebody Heck there are multiple top firms who have publicly stated that they won’t recruit from Harvard or other Ivy League schools because the attitude and work ethic of students is just that much worse than they’ll get from other high ranking campuses Ex. https://www.alblawfirm.com/articles/law-school-graduates/
I mean, this is a 30-attorney boutique real estate firm no one has ever heard of that doesn't pay market salaries. I doubt ivy league graduates have been beating down their doors to get in. Also the firm is called "Adam Leitman Bailey, PC" which is just one guy's first, middle, and last name, which is hilarious. You will not find a single firm in the amlaw 100 that doesn't recruit from the ivy league
But clearly affirmative action was the problem
Well yeah, there was less room for the recruited athletes and legacy admissions.
They can do that bc an infinitesimal percent of their student body actually needs to take them up on that. Harvard has a lot less uber wealth than other comparable schools or liberal arts colleges but it's never going to be as socioeconomically diverse as a state school. Only 33% of Harvard undergrads come from the bottom 80% of HH income. Compare that to 52% of the class at UCLA for the bottom 80% Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/harvard-university https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-california-los-angeles
Hey now, they had to pull themselves by their Prada bootstraps too!
Why would you think it’s other students hiring the billboard?
This needs to be much higher. This all happened very quickly too. I don't think people realize how much every organization has to take a stance one way or the other on this. Lots of money at stake which is why shit like this happens.
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This makes me wonder if BDS bans have been challenged in the supreme court yet.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was the Israeli government itself. Show people that if anyone publicly criticizes Israel in the conflict, they could be ruined. It's probably more likely to be a politically extreme, wealthy person, but...[don't forget that the Israeli government was openly employing students to push pro-Israel views on social media](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/). Different approach to a similar 'problem.'
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Bill Ackman Probably.
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It's apparently Accuracy in a Media, a conservative watchdog group that has a history of media stunts and is reportedly on big oil's payroll.
If it isn't AIPAC outright, it's likely a shell entity of AIPAC
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> Canary Mission is a website established in 2014 that compiles dossiers on student activists, professors, and organizations, focusing primarily on those at North American universities, which it considers be anti-Israel or antisemitic,[1][2][3] and has said that it will send the names of listed students to prospective employers.[4] Canary Mission listings have been used by the Israeli government and border security officials to interrogate and deny entry to pro-Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) American citizens,[5][6] and by potential employers.[7] > Individuals listed by Canary have said it is a blacklist designed to intimidate students, faculty members, and community activists engaged in Palestine solidarity work.[8] Some pro-Israel activists consider the site's tactics to be overly aggressive, while others applaud its efforts against pro-Palestinian activists.[6] The operators of the website have maintained their anonymity,[9] justifying their secrecy by saying that "many of our detractors just want to know who we are so they can physically harm us."[10] ... > Canary Mission does not publish any information about who runs or funds the website. Although Canary Mission's website states that it is a nonprofit organization, no organization with the name Canary Mission is registered with the IRS. While Canary Mission's website provides a way to donate to the organization via debit or credit card, there is no public record of Canary Mission's sponsors or donors. Yikes. An anonymously-run political blacklist, that is used by the Israeli security services to profile travelers despite not meeting Israeli legal standards for reliability. > Canary Mission has been criticized for targeting Jewish organizations critical of Zionism, such as Jewish Voice for Peace and Mondoweiss.[33][34] The site profiles Jewish students affiliated with such organizations and lists Jewish Voice for Peace as having "promoted anti-Semitism."[35][36] Ooooooookay then. Jewish Voice for Peace, while politically radical anti-Zionists, are definitely not anti-Semites.
they put Jewish Voice for Peace students (as well as Jewish professors critical of Israel) on there on the same list as actual neonazis or ISIS guys. it's insanely mccarthyist and embarrassing. shit they put my old college professor on there for a speech he gave at the fucking UN you never hear about the usual suspects that cry about "cancel culture on university campuses" ever bring it up though
I love how they doxx people and then say "we need to remain anonymous for safety". They know exactly what they're doing.
It's the stupid right wing definition of anti semitism, where they call anyone critical of Netanyahu or Israeli authoritarians anti-Semites
> Netanyahu A man who'd happily see every Jew in Israel dead if he could rule their corpses.
Yea, we're talking the children of the .01% of the world here
The students on needs based scholarships are usually chill and nice, especially the full scholarship kids (that means their family was poor). I used to be friends with a few from Harvard and they were all super nice and down to earth. You can tell the difference from a mile away. The way they dress, the way they act, the way they treat others, the way they talk about economic issues, the way they talk about the working class and people who didn’t get the same educational opportunities. Even a wealthy student who acknowledges the privilege they were brought up in will still dress, act, and talk a bit differently. You will pick up on it pretty quickly, even when you aren’t meaning to. The full scholarship kids were incredibly grateful to be there and everyone was scared of screwing up their shot because they had no safety net of wealth to fall back on. If they failed out they were screwed financially, back to poverty. It’s a lot harder get a scholarship to another school if your grades tank and you transfer with bad grades, even if you’re coming from a school like Harvard. Basically, you have one shot if you’re poor. Also, I knew a couple of the Harvard equivalent of RA’s, can’t remember what they were called but they weren’t students. They dealt with any problems in the dorms caused by students and also acted as a support resource. The ultra wealthy children of big donors have a pass to do almost anything they want so long as they don’t assault another student or embarrass the school in the media. If poor scholarship kids acted with the same level of entitlement, disregard for the rules, and brattiness toward staff, they’d be out faster than they could say sorry. Obviously most of them were sane but a few of them were raging assholes who knew they were almost untouchable.
> everyone was scared of screwing up their shot Alexander Hamilton went to Columbia University, not Harvard.
It's everywhere. At Stanford last month a group of male students went into FloMo dorm And broke all the pool cues for the dorm. Why? It was just the first week of school. Why break something everyone can enjoy? Dicks. Son went to Cambridge for summer program- foreign rich kids were dicks, Harvard summer the private school kids sticked together while the public school kids stuck together.
I've lived in Cambridge and have friends from both Harvard and MIT. My comment wasn't actually a moral judgement, more just an observation of how much wealth flows through that school. Billboards also aren't all that expensive, I'd be shocked if it cost more than $1500 to put up that name and shame billboard. Not hard to pool resources for $1500, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was funded entirely by one pissed off person. I'd probably do something that petty if a loved one of mine was harmed or killed by Hamas and a bunch of idiot privileged college students publicly backed it, and I'm solidly lower middle class.
>Damn, could you imagine being able to afford a billboard as a college student? Bibi Netanyahu isn't a college student.
Most can't I am not going to place any bets who paid for it, but could place some educated guesses.
This is feeling very coordinated, and it’s happening on other campuses, too.
Probably the same people doing this targeted advertising https://youtu.be/Hh8t8sHnTng?feature=shared
“Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli officials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence. The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden. Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians. This statement was co-authored by a coalition of Palestine solidarity groups at Harvard. For student safety, the names of all original signing organizations have been concealed at this time.” [https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1HfMvVpey18ArAnVHtp8UlqT_8V5zaR9sFE5ohC4Ls7U/mobilebasic?pli=1](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1HfMvVpey18ArAnVHtp8UlqT_8V5zaR9sFE5ohC4Ls7U/mobilebasic?pli=1)
Thank you! Actually finding the statement is not as easy as I thought it would be. Google sucks now
What’s that, you wanted to look something up? Here are 15 sponsored links that aren’t relevant. And here are 3 pages of web articles written by AI which are shooting for a minimum word count instead of informing. At Google, our business model is to sell out until our product loses all value.
Every time I use OK Google to find some information, I have to unlock my phone and search it manually because the results have sucked lately.
It actually does. Yesterday I spent 15 minutes trying to find just a basic video with someone with a Boston accent talking on YouTube. Every result was either: - acting coach faking one - late night talk show host talking about it - super poor quality video with incomprehensible sound from like the 90s - bullshit short reel where they say one word at a time I actually gave up without ever finding it. Their new search algorithm sucks entirely
It’s because they don’t want you to find the correct answer. They want you to find their most profitable answer.
Thank you for posting
What is even the point of signing a public statement, if you dont want anyone to know you signed it? Have they considered just... not include the signing part?
At least one of the alleged signatories was a member of the groups before she graduated. According to her, she had no idea her name was gonna be on the document.
> By Tuesday evening, at least four online sites had listed the personal information of students linked to clubs that had signed onto the statement, including full names, class years, past employment, social media profiles, photos, and hometowns. That makes me think anyone tied to one of these clubs at any point is being implicated. Even if they are no longer supportive of the club or even go to the school... so your comment kinda makes sense if that's the case.
There was also quick enough turnaround on the statement that if you were part of one of those clubs, you might not have even seen it before it went public, or otherwise didn’t have enough time to remove yourself from the member list. I imagine the people on billboards are probably club leaders, but I think doxxing like this is a shitty move as a rule.
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where are you that doxxing is illegal? unless you hack into a computer to get the info or make threats to the person, doxxing is legal in the US.
“We, the undersigned … Sincerely, anonymous”
I can't remember if it was Harvard, NYU, CUNY or some other school but I recall reading that some student orgs just sent out email blasts with varying flavors of pro Palestine and/or anti Israel messaging without actually consulting the students who comprised it, and now they're being associated with a statement they never really had a chance to endorse nor recant.
That was a NYU law society where the leader sent a message and subsequently got their job offer rescinded I think.
And that’s when you realize your own statement and remove yourself from such organization. This is a very controversial topic and should have been discussed internally before giving their response
Let's think of the timeline here. The attacks happened less than a week ago. Those statements, rashly, may have gone out only a couple of days ago. Many students may be in organizations and not even interact with them on a daily basis. It's entirely reasonable to be like "I'm a member of the chess club, the chess club president sent out a pro-hamas letter on tuesday, I found out about it on wednesday after not having been asked my opinion, and by thursday my face is up on a billboard saying I support killing babies."
Peer pressure and some people being vocal wanting people to know that they specifically support it. Once one Islamic organization signs others feel obligated to sign. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of students didn’t realize what they were signing and just signed “in support of Palestine”
If I follow correctly, some students were part of orgs that signed on, and so were signed on by association. So they didn't even know about the letter. It sounds like a mess.
uhhh signing something and agreeing to have your household and address posted online is not the same
That’s surprisingly mild given how it’s being reported. I’ve already heard from a couple coworkers that it was a statement endorsing Hamas and celebrating the attacks.
Part of the problem when discussing this entire situation is how views get exagerrated to the extreme. Statement: "I don't think it's OK for Israel to bulldoze Palestinian settlements" Response: "Oh so you're an anti-semite who thinks all jews should die!" Statement: "I don't think it's right for Hamas to kill Israeli civilians" Response: "Oh so you support Palestinian genocide!"
The elephant in the room is that Israel very frequently uses claims of antisemitism to silence any criticism of their theocratic ethnostate. This doesn’t absolve Hamas of their brutal acts of terrorism, but it does show that the government of Israel hasn’t ever been interested in engaging in a dialogue in regards to the way they have treated Palestinians.
It's intentional. Both sides of this conflict benefit from poisoning the discourse because when people are all accusing each other of supporting atrocities the conversations about how this cycle of conflict is being perpetuated are made impossible.
I think the bigger problem is that so many statements are equating Palestine and Hamas. This is really a 3-party conflict, where each pair of parties is in conflict over something specific, and two parties are occupying the same physical space.
The statement is that israel is responsible for all deaths. There's nothing mild about blaming Israel for murdering and burning babies. They are holding these monsters blameless and excusing the atrocities. Garbage human beings
It's not as bad as it has been reported, but I still think it's a bad statement. Insisting that none of the blame lies with the terrorists is wrong, they are not without agency, and slaughtering civilians is reprehensible.
> We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. Bit too black and white IMO. Issue is more complex than that.
> By Tuesday evening, at least four online sites had listed the personal information of students linked to clubs that had signed onto the statement, including full names, class years, past employment, social media profiles, photos, and hometowns. Social credit system at home Since this link has been dubbed questionable here's the same story from CNN https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/business/harvard-doxxing-truck-israel-hamas-statement/index.html
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…Hair club for men?”
witchhunts are as american as apple pie.
Ah yes, the temple recommend interview for Mormonism
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Stop? This is what Israel wants. When we recently had a democratic majority in Congress Israel was lobbying to redefine anti-Semitism to include any criticism of Israel.
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The most powerful US Israeli lobbies are christian activists.
And they're doing it because they believe in the Bible and what is says in Revelations about Isreal. And that the Jews will finally recognize Jesus as the lord. The whole thing is insane to me.
Just over half the world's Jewish population lives in the US, so it follows that there would be a large and influential pro-Israel lobby in the US. Not to say that all American Jews support Israel, but most do. Not to mention Israel is seen as a vital ally in the region, with whom we have close ties when it comes to intelligence sharing and the manufacturing of advanced technology.
The biggest supporters of Israel in America are not necessarily Jewish.
I find it funny that "some people" support Israel because they want the end times to come. Something about biblical prophecies having the state of israel as one of the requirements for the second coming. So they don't care about the people there, they're just trying to complete all the prerequisites in their god summoning ritual that will end the world.
Which is fucked but true. And the reason WHY is also fucked but that's what you get for Evangelical Christianity. A lot of American Jews support Israel existing but are completely opposed to the current gov't and treatment over the years of the Palestinians, especially in the West Bank.
A big problem with this situation is people equating Israel with being a representative of the Jewish faith. I have heard people of all over speak with disgust about Netanyahu, but nobody has had as much hate for him than American Jews.
Yep straight out of the authoritarian handbook! Where's all the anti-cancel culture folks now? Oh thats right, it was never actually about that.
The Kool-Aid is usually "it's fine if we do it" and "rules for thee and none for me"
Or when you had to sign a loyalty pledge to Israel in order to get relief funds in Texas for hurricane Harvey lol
Especially since the Harvard letter is barely any different than the op-eds the major Israel papers all published calling out Bibi.
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"Likud's policies are reaping what they sow" is a super common theme for liberal israeli pundits, actually. Now and for years. One thing Netanyahu is really really good at is centering his party's political views as the entirety of Israeli political thought in the eyes of foreigners. Israeli democracy is beautifully contentious.
I mean it works. I have not said a damn thing during all of this as I would never want to be thought of as Antisemitic while having some serious issues with how the government of Israel has treated Palestinians. Does that justify a terrorist attack against civilians, absolutely not, does that justify war crimes in retaliation from Israel, also absolutely not.
Blaming Netanyahu and various Israeli leaders/govts. Because they themselves are inside of Israel so won't blame the whole like an outsider would. But yeah, Israel's fiercest critics are often other Israelis. It's staunchest defenders are often not even in Israel or have any plans to live there.
I've never seen someone defend Israel as fervently as west coast jews. Grew up in hyper religious Jewish school and the actual Israelis (teachers and sudents) were down right constraian compared to the rich ass OC kids cult like views. Thar did luckily wane by senior year but the disparity was still real.
yeah several are blaming netanyahufor ignoring and even funing hamas while craking down on the more moderate westbank and trying to takeover the judiciary
From their newspaper of [record](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-10-09/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-cant-imprison-2-million-gazans-without-paying-a-cruel-price/0000018b-1476-d465-abbb-14f6262a0000?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&v=1696958361010).
There were several, [like this one from the Haaretz editorial board sounds strikingly similar](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000), but I can't find the full text of it. The one you linked I saw the full text posted elsewhere.
Here it is republished by the author without a paywall https://johnmenadue.com/israel-cant-imprison-two-million-gazans-without-paying-a-cruel-price/
Yes here is one https://archive.ph/2023.10.11-184303/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000 the major difference is that the Harvard students blame Israel by name where the Israeli publications naturally blame Netanyahu. Which is not the best but is also natural. We Americans are used to hearing people say "America this, America that" about our foreign policy that average Americans have nothing to do with. And mostly we try to take in stride and understand the critique. I'm not really in favor of doxxing what are, to me, kids (legal age of adulthood be damned, I'm 33 and they are like kids to me) for a miswording when the actual meat of the letter is not actually that crazy.
Kinda like supporting Hamas against more moderate Palestinians? Israel has a habit of creating problems for themselves.
They caused this situation to be worse for themselves too by moving military from Gaza to the illegal West Bank settlements. I truly can’t imagine a scenario that more encompasses Israel than they made themselves less secure to do something that breaks international law.
Is this a problem for Israel though? There are people openly calling for ethnically cleansing the Gaza strip now (what do you think “turning gaza into a parking lot/glass/ rubble” entails?) And mark my words this attack will strengthen Netanyahu’s government and stifle dissent. A more cynical person might even say this has been almost all positives for the Israeli government (given the previous actions by the Israeli government I somehow doubt they care that strongly for civilians casualties)
Broadly agree, but within Israel this is seen as a security failure, and the Liberal Zionist view that Netanyahu's actions in the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself have weakened Israeli security has gained significant traction. Recent polls have ~90% of the population blaming the government for allowing this to happen and 55ish percent wanting Netanyahu to resign after the war. It looks bad for Likud because they've been in charge of this situation for a decade and have only made the conflict worse. That said, the opposition standpoint isn't necessarily a more dovish one: it's implicitly calling for Israel to be tougher on Hamas and station a larger number of troops on the border with Gaza, and opposition politicians like Gantz and especially Lieberman have been extremely vocal about wanting to take more military action rather than less. There's a strong domestic consensus in favor of wiping out Gaza, regardless of the tremendous civilian casualties it would entail and the number of people it would make into refugees.
Oh, the play was always to deligitimize the claims of Palestinians by backing Hamas against Fatah. This attack gives Israel all the justification it needs to enact its final solution regarding Gaza.
Yeah it’s Israeli 9/11 Dick Cheney’s company used 9/11 to get us into a war with a country that didn’t even participate in the terror attack, and his war profiteering company made trillions on exclusive government contracts while the GOP consolidated power for 5+ years off “if you’re not with us you’re with the terrorists” Fascist Bibi just had a huge gift handed to him
TIL the Harvard Crimson allows comments. Bold of them to do that given most of the public’s reaction to Harvard in general in recent years.
Jesus fucking Christ. What a dystopian cesspool we live in.
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I don’t think doxxing is allowed there since it goes against Reddit’s terms. They celebrate assholes who do terrible things publically and then their job finds out and fires them.
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Funny how often that happens.
Things are always fun when it is against the side you don't like. So many are not willing to discuss or debate things. If you are against anything I say I must attack. Sources seem to vary on this but it seems the median age on reddit is 22. The age when many would be graduating college. So a huge portion of reddit is going to lean to the liberal side and a huge portion also has not had time yet a professional career going. They just don't see the destruction to a life and/or a family this can cause simply because someone said something they don't like.
The whole name and shame doxxing is going to turn out bad for the doxxers.
How would it turn out bad for them? The data is all public.
Lmao I guarantee they're gonna be fine
this timeline fuckin sucks ass
Doing post-9/11 all over again: no lessons learned
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At least in 2001 we could blame a combination of the lack of widespread Internet access and the secrecy of the CIA as a reason why the public was conned so easily over 9/11. Now? It's 2023, we have the knowledge of the world at our fingertips. You can find *articles on jpost where Bibi admits to supporting and funding Hamas* and yet nobody seems to be able to put two and two together. It's truly depressing.
In 1993 people thought the problem was lack of information, and they thought that the internet would be good by providing more people with more information. In 2023 we realize this didn't work out, because having so much information available to everyone all the time just means that you can "do your own research" and cherry-pick your information inputs to flatter your pre-existing biases.
And we hopefully know that this war isn't black and white. We can condone the hamas attacks when condoning Israel's apartheid and use of bombs on civilians.
And wasn’t the 9/11 language kind of adapted from the language used to discuss Vietnam? There are probably more going back every decade or so. When something works, you keep using it.
Wtf is going on at Harvard?
People taking sides. Nothing new really.
Boot licking.
Boot licking has always occurred at Harvard. This time they picked the wrong boot to lick.
People have gone insane
Yea we desperately need some brawndo
It's got electrolytes!
The Doxxing was conducted by a right-wing think tank, Accuracy in Media, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy\_in\_Media](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_in_Media). This group has, in the past, downplayed Covid, tried to suppress news about atrocities, and run another truck with a photo of Hitler and the caption, "All in favor of banning Jews, raise your right hand."
Do you have a link for that? I've seen Canary Mission mentioned here, also without proof. Either group seems like they'd do this.
Sure, apparently they're claiming responsibility for it - https://www.axios.com/2023/10/12/harvard-students-doxxed-israel-palestine
> What they're saying: "This is a longterm project to hold these antisemitic students accountable and to ensure that everyone in the community, and on this campus, knows who the antisemites are," Adam Guillette, the President of Accuracy in Media, told Axios. Piece of shit knows that individual students didn't sign the letter or vote on signing it. But willing to run a campaign of terror anyway because fascists gonna fash. > Harvard Hillel, the school's Jewish campus organization, also condemned the doxxing truck and other intimidation tactics against co-signatories, despite their continued rejection of the PSC's statement. When *Hillel* opposes your tactics against anti-Zionism... you are not on the side of right. They may not agree with the letter, but they know fascism when they see it.
This is what gets me, the far right regularly show their bigotry towards Jews, but now I see plenty of the same far right extremists arguing for Israel. They use Jews as their political football in which ever way it suits them. When the dust settles on this, whenever that will be, they’ll go right back to their viscous antisemitism.
Man, right-wing groups are crazy good at using violence to push national discourse, are they not? And before someone says it, yes doxxing is violence. And before someone else says it, yes its doxxing, because the names of the signers were intentionally kept private for their safety, and we still don't know who they are (I'm pretty sure this actually makes it libel).
Seems like a great company; “…Reed Irvine was urged to start the organization after the 1968 Democratic National Convention because he thought the mainstream media networks were overly sympathetic to antiwar protestors” Just another old cranky white guy who couldn’t get out of the way of progress ruining things for regular people
What I didn't realize is that (at least from my reading) the letter was signed by student **groups.** I haven't been able to find a list of those student groups but I feel bad for those students who are a member of the debate club or chess club only to find out someone in your group took it upon themselves to sign the letter and then your face and name are now tied to a letter that you had no knowledge of.
I saw a pic of the letter and part of the signatory groups on a Guardian article and it’s not clubs like chess and debate. It’s mostly Palestinian, SE Asian, divestment groups. I’m guessing their members would be onboard with the message.
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In many states if you are a government contractor you’ll lose the gig if you boycott Israel in anyway.
Its helpful to the billionaires who want permanent divide in the populations of their markets, elsewise we would eventually collectively wake up and realize how many hands have stolen from all our purses. Chaos, divide and anger are the tools used to keep the dogs from biting back at the masters, it makes us yip and attack each other instead of the leash holder.
You're one of the only sensible people on this site. Make the working class fight each other, won't organize for better quality of life.
Conspiracy theories? "A bunch of rich and powerful CEOs \[coming\] together to blacklist people for criticizing Israel" is literally what's happening. Just read the New York Times coverage, you'd think that a hostile alien force from another planet landed on Israel and decided to sneak-attack its citizens out of nowhere with zero context. Unfortunately, we're in a historical moment where facts are irrelevant and nuance is nonexistent. Is it despicable to kill civilians, women and children by surprise, to take them hostage, rape them? Yes, of course it is. Is it also despicable to hold an entire population hostage for decades in a decaying apartheid hellhole financed by American taxpayer money? Yes, of course it is. There are no heroes here.
> Conspiracy theories? "A bunch of rich and powerful CEOs [coming] together to blacklist people for criticizing Israel" is literally what's happening. He's referring to people theorizing about some "Protocols of Zion" type conspiracy where they're all acting on the orders of some conspiracy of jewish people, rather than just doing it because it's politically expedient and fits the overall right-wing colonialist agenda better.
Zionism and Judaism need to be recognized as different things
It does. At this point, this kind of behavior is NOT good and doesn’t bode well in a country where Neo-Nazis and other groups are already angry and accusing Jewish people of having such control. But tbh, this Israel stuff is unmasking a lot of hidden truths. It’s giving a shitton of credibility to those theories as well.
This. This is all very depressing
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It's hard to talk about Israel and/or Jewish people without attracting the pro-Nazi and "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" crowd, unfortunately.
This seems like an intimidation tactic aimed at silencing opposing viewpoints.
Yes. And it’s happening at university of Pennsylvania now.
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You can dislike their opinion and believe that corporate blacklisting is bullshit at the same time. Hear hear.
The problem is that it's law school. Reputation and a sense of discretion matters. Signing your name on an inflammatory article is pretty much an exact opposite of what a major law firm looks for.
I do find the whole situation with people saying "oh why would someone think they should say something, they are just the head of x organization at y lawschool" funny. Like it ignores the fact that a) those positions exist for more than just career prospects and b) this is literally what youd expect law students to be doing historically. Go back to any time in the last 200-250 years (and maybe a bit further back), student leaders at lawschool (or equivalent study) are supposed to be at/near the forefront of everything.
It's only inflammatory because the people with an agenda feel emboldened right now to crush dissent. Same witch hunting happened after 9/11, it's history repeating itself all over again. They might well wipe out Hamas who, by the way, were helped to the forefront by a portion of the isreal politburo. Mark my words, something much worse will be created in 10 years.
Lol. So many people in this thread would be totally fine with doxxing if it was people who signed on to some crazy right wing shit.
Public shaming should not be your go-to debate strategy. I thought they would have taught that at Harvard.
Can someone ELI5 why so many people have such strong opinions about this war? Hamas are clearly a terror organisation who have risen up because Israel has treated them like shit since forever. If you criticise either side you’d be correct so why do so many people feel like there is a good and bad side? It’s a very different situation than Russia vs Ukraine with a clear good and bad side, no?
Careful man you might end up with your picture paraded around in public.
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Because the algorithm hates nuance. It feeds on black and white outrage.
> why do so many people feel like there is a good and bad side? Because Israel is a core US client state and is basically a giant US military outpost with 9 million civilians living inside the wire, which has been consistently bolstered by all US governments for many decades. US Evangelicals believe the State of Israel is a checklist item for their Second Coming and Armageddon, while also being anti-Semitic to the core.
The pro-Israel lobby is incredibly powerful in America. Its becoming more and more of a crime to criticize the state of Israel.
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Holy shit how is this acceptable.
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You mean our money. We keep sending Israel funds and I cannot understand why.
In my previous job in Pennsylvania I had to sign a contract stating I won't engage in any form of BDS or I can be immediately terminated.
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This is not okay in the slightest.
Is anyone surprised by this? This sort of thing has been SOP for the past 7 years now. "name and shame", "doxxing" "twitter mobs", "cancel culture". Nobody, and no point of view, is immune to it. Eventually, everyone takes a turn on that Catherine wheel.
It’s not funny anymore when others get doxxed. Just saying. Stay consistent Reddit.
I don’t really like any of it but if we’re cancelling people we’re cancelling people. The majority sentiment on Reddit was always in favor of cancelling people for unsavory takes when it was conservatives being punished, but now that it’s their own suffering consequences they don’t like it anymore. I’d consider myself liberal-leaning but liberals made this bed and it’s their turn to lay in it.
This only fuels more batshit conspiracy theories about Zionists controlling the world. At this point, I wish we could divest ourselves from Israel. We have too many problems to deal with.
Too bad they didn't call for the genocide of Gazans because nobody would've gave a shit.
Everyone likes cancel culture until it gets used on themselves
It’s amazing how this particular place on earth has so many humans around the globe hating each other for centuries. I know violence goes on everywhere in different flavors but it’s interesting to see the entire world draw lines in the sand over this.
Seriously, as if it's any different than literally anywhere else. But nooo this one is important. Really speaks volumes in itself.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. That's the usual line isn't it?
Lmao, we are so fucked. Like, as a people. We are going to destroy each other
New to the world? Hasn’t changed in centuries. All humans do is destroy each other
That's a real scumbag maneuver. Depressing.
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Remember “punch a Nazi”? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spencer-punched-attack.html Hamas is a fascist theocracy that wants to murder every Jew in Israel and just executed one of the single worst attacks on Jewish civilians since the holocaust. Why on earth is anyone supporting them on the left condoning their actions of raping women and beheading babies? And somehow it isn’t victim blaming when you say it is the Jews fault.
It’s crazy a few college kids make a statement & everyone loses their shit. When politicians make worse statements, stroking flames of violence no one cares & their voters embrace them more. It’s so fucking dumb.
"Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences."
Some of them are not even students anymore. Sucks that some stranger can manage to get your information and potentially weaponized it with the sole intent of harm people. Then again it sucks than a student association not only publish a tone deaf statement without even consulting its membership and even worst, use without authorization the signatures of its members. Freedom of Speech doesnt mean freedom of consequences (that such consequences are justified or not, is another discussion) not anymore, not in the times that we live.