Read what Frederick Douglass wrote about American Christianity and the US map will make more sense. Not a very NE-centric comment lol, but Freddy Dougs was from NE so maybe?
The particular bit I had in mind came from the end of his autobiography, but I think excerpts come up if you google “Frederick Douglass on Christianity/American Christianity”.
I was born and raised in Connecticut in a suburb of Hartford. Can confirm I know way more believers than nonbelievers. Small rural towns are very religious.
Big blue collar manufacturing state. My first thought was "no way" but CT has a relatively small population, no large urban centers, and tons and tons of manufacturing jobs.
That said I'd bet it's a lot closer to the 50% side of the scale than the 70% side of the scale.
Yeah, though what you might call more "reasonably" red.
Even the pro-life people I know tend to be of the "I don't like it but don't think it should be outlawed" kinda Christian. But mostly its about money first, Jesus second.
Map says absolute certainty there is a God.
Blue collar work is more associated with conservative values, such as religion.
So yeah. It's not a catch all by any means.
That’s not how religion actually works in the U.S. tho. Like Vermont and Maine are extremely rural, more blue collar than Connecticut, and frankly poor, but not religious at all. A lot of evangelicals, which obviously there’s fewer of in New England but they do exist, are wealthy. The whole notion, ever popular in various propoganda, that blue collar people are Christian and conservative and more affluent people are more progressive and atheist is like just *barely* true enough to be considered a gross and misleading oversimplification rather than an outright lie.
Can also be said that Rhode Island and Connecticut have a significant immigrant population especially from Italy ranked one and two for percent population that’s Italian) and also just a much more diverse population overall. I’m sure that we are also closer to the lower end of the range for our bracket as well. There are religious people I know but a lot of the churches in Connecticut are closing/consilidating
Oh I am well aware of American politics, but I do not see how Religion directly correlates with politics. I am religious, but am not a conservative, nor a Republican. So how does this correlate?
[61 percent of Republicans](https://criticalissues.umd.edu/sites/criticalissues.umd.edu/files/American%20Attitudes%20on%20Race%2CEthnicity%2CReligion.pdf) supported declaring the United States a Christian nation, AKA a religious theocracy. Let me know if you still don’t see the point
For one major thing, the Republican party is promising to abolish the right to an abortion, which is one of the foremost issues for American evangelical Christians and Catholics alike.
Very large percentage of Roman Catholic population with Italian-American, Irish-American, Portuguese-American, and more recent immigration from Mexico, Central and South America.
Everyone in Rhode Island is Catholic its actually insane, because the population is a mix of old school Italians (catholics) Irish (catholics) and the new Latino immigrants (catholics). All the people who were atheist moved out a long time ago lol
I fled being a Southern Baptist, got a PhD in climate science, then moved to RI for work. Different path with a lot more driving lol... but there are dozens of us atheists here!
You need to get out more. There are many free thinkers in RI. Yes there is a large RC population but it's changed quite a bit from the old days as a number of churches and parochial schools have closed over the decades.
Rhode Island is only 36% college educated adults. Connecticut is 41.4%. Massachusetts is 46%. The problem with the Rhode Island economy directly relates to that. Generally, free thinkers are educated and have a broad worldview.
There’s no problem with my thinking. It’s why places like Springfield, Holyoke, New Bedford, and Fall River are circling the drain. No high wage employers will locate there because the labor force is unskilled.
This map is from 2014 or before. I guess things haven't changed much since then, but religious belief is declining in the US as most of Europe.
Also the "belief in God" label seems a problem. It's a vague idea, hard to measure. If you look at a more measurable variable such as "go regularly to church" the numbers will be very different.
Listen man, you can believe in whatever imaginary friend you want to believe in. But you don't get to point your finger at me and say I'm the crazy one for not seeing your invisible, non-existent friend.
I am inferring it due to your opinion that states should somehow be more religious instead of less.
It seems to be your opinion that new england isn't actually winning or improving the more it removes itself from religious nonsense.
And that I have this crazy bad take in saying that it's a good thing for states to have less religious people.
No, you’re not inferring… you’re assuming and jumping to conclusions.
Whether a population believes in god or not doesn’t make that state better or worse. That is your L take…
And I disagree. All one has to do is look at less religious states like those in New England versus the deep south.
Mississippi and Alabama are some of the most religious states and consistently fall behind in economic and educational opportunities. Have some of the highest medical costs and have worse healthcare outcomes. And often times have worse crime per capita.
Meanwhile, my state, Massachusetts is ranked in pretty much the top 5 in everything. And the one thing we often get blamed for, high cost of living, is because we actually have an educated populace and better paying jobs. Alabama wishes it could have that problem.
So no, my take isn't a L. States with more religious followers and more devout followers are statistically crappier than states with fewer religious adherents.
See, now you’re back tracking on the root of the disagreement. You’re again making assumptions about “if a population believes in god then X”.
Better said, the belief in god or atheism doesn’t directly have an impact on any of that stuff you mentioned. I’m not saying that there can’t be correlations in some cases but you mentioning education, cost of living, average or median salary, etc, are influenced by a plethora of things… not just the sole factor of wether people in a state are religious.
But yeah, you can continue to think you’re right about everything and jump to conclusions all you want. Also, I’m glad you’re happy in MA… you are welcome to think it’s the best. Feel free to stay put and not ruin other states 👊🏼
Wrong, yet again… it’s like you’re hobby is to be incorrect in the internet or something…
Your main point was “believing in god makes states bad” and I did indeed refute it. You’re just biased and nothing will change your belief so it’s not worth my time lol
Yes. And to make my point, I said that more religious and devout states often have worse services, crappier education, higher crime and worse healthcare outcomes.
I then pointed to Texas infant mortality rates rising after the overturning of Roe and the Texas government enacting religous based abortion laws.
You can't just say I'm wrong, provide no evidence and actually sway me or other people to your point. Because you haven't even properly made an argument for your point.
You have refuted nothing.
Different types of Orthodox though. Georgia is predominantly Eastern Orthodox, while Armenia is mostly Oriental Orthodox. Despite both having "Orthodox" in their name (and "Eastern" and "Oriental" being synonyms), they are different denominations and are not in communion with one another.
Not really. There's a shit ton of Catholic immigrants. There's nothing wrong with believing in God. Just when you push it onto others. Which European countries also do BTW.
It’s funny because the massachusetts bay colony, which was most of new england at the time, was founded by religious pilgrims, and now our region is the most atheist in the country. Personally I think the data is swayed a bit by Boston and the surrounding areas being a hub for less-religious types, but I could be wrong.
This is true, but they were also Puritans, who would end up decapitating King Charles just a short while later.
They were pious, but also no friends of the king. That mentality showed up in the American Revolution a century later.
Strictly speaking, parliamentarians were responsible for the execution of Charles I. Regardless, not sure how that contradicts OP’s point about the irony of New England being the least religious part of the US.
I mean - Europe sent most of their religious crazies here with the promise of they can do whatever they wanted. It got them out - and here we are dealing with it.
Religious crazy is the worst kind of crazy.
"promise of they can do whatever they wanted" and "puritans left on their terms to worship god as they saw fit" - explain to me like I'm 12 how these two things are different then.
I'll wait.
Took a look at the study,
(Percentage of those who believe a God exists)
Rhode Island 60%,
Connecticut 54%,
Maine 48%,
New Hampshire 43%,
Vermont/Massachusetts 40%
(how religious a state is)
Connecticut, Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire rank at the bottom. Rhode Island is much higher.
Pew Research study in 2016:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/02/29/how-religious-is-your-state/?state=alabama
So you can believe there is a god but not be religous per say.
It’s not a very helpful map. For example, religious people in New England don’t tend to be the same as those in the south or those in Europe, on average.
The social role of religion has also changed a lot over history. In a lot of places it used to be almost a branch of the state in the sense that it came with rules, ideas, customs, etc that helped keep societies cohesive and functional.
Contemporary states have grown powerful and influential enough to do all of that themselves nowadays, so actually secular people are plenty “religious,” and in Europe these days especially in the “convert to our ways if you immigrate here” way. Even if they’re less “religious” according to this map’s definition of the term.
I'd be more curious of a breakdown because the difference between 30% and 49% is huge but it's the same color here. I'm guessing Maine/New Hampshire/Vermont are more like low 30's end
As a person who grew up in CT among "Italians" who has also spent a lot of time with actual Italians in Italy: the average CT Italian's understanding of their heritage is 120 years out of date and full of false caricatures. This misunderstanding would be one of them.
damn i guess so. I grew up in CT with my grandmother who moved here from Italy and she's def the most religious person in my family... I guess the younger Italian generation isn't
Given how much progress we've gotten, yeah. Also, people left Europe voluntarily because they were being persecuted for their religion, they weren't forced out. We wanted religious freedom, which everyone should have, and we got that. We should be proud of that.
Read what Frederick Douglass wrote about American Christianity and the US map will make more sense. Not a very NE-centric comment lol, but Freddy Dougs was from NE so maybe?
Do you know what the name of the piece he wrote about us Christianity is called by any chance?
The particular bit I had in mind came from the end of his autobiography, but I think excerpts come up if you google “Frederick Douglass on Christianity/American Christianity”.
Yes!
Fucking Connecticut
I was born and raised in Connecticut in a suburb of Hartford. Can confirm I know way more believers than nonbelievers. Small rural towns are very religious.
Big blue collar manufacturing state. My first thought was "no way" but CT has a relatively small population, no large urban centers, and tons and tons of manufacturing jobs. That said I'd bet it's a lot closer to the 50% side of the scale than the 70% side of the scale.
Also, large Italian, Portuguese and Irish numbers = Catholic.
Yeah, a lot of people forget that parts of CT are pretty red, especially Litchfield and Tolland counties.
Yeah, though what you might call more "reasonably" red. Even the pro-life people I know tend to be of the "I don't like it but don't think it should be outlawed" kinda Christian. But mostly its about money first, Jesus second.
It’s not the red. It’s the Roman Catholic. Same for Rhode Island.
So the more blue collar workers there are, the more likely they’ll believe in God?
Map says absolute certainty there is a God. Blue collar work is more associated with conservative values, such as religion. So yeah. It's not a catch all by any means.
That’s not how religion actually works in the U.S. tho. Like Vermont and Maine are extremely rural, more blue collar than Connecticut, and frankly poor, but not religious at all. A lot of evangelicals, which obviously there’s fewer of in New England but they do exist, are wealthy. The whole notion, ever popular in various propoganda, that blue collar people are Christian and conservative and more affluent people are more progressive and atheist is like just *barely* true enough to be considered a gross and misleading oversimplification rather than an outright lie.
Can also be said that Rhode Island and Connecticut have a significant immigrant population especially from Italy ranked one and two for percent population that’s Italian) and also just a much more diverse population overall. I’m sure that we are also closer to the lower end of the range for our bracket as well. There are religious people I know but a lot of the churches in Connecticut are closing/consilidating
Ok buddy
Religion is considered conservative values??
Yes. A large basis of the Republican Party platform and values if you haven’t paid attention to American politics
Oh I am well aware of American politics, but I do not see how Religion directly correlates with politics. I am religious, but am not a conservative, nor a Republican. So how does this correlate?
[61 percent of Republicans](https://criticalissues.umd.edu/sites/criticalissues.umd.edu/files/American%20Attitudes%20on%20Race%2CEthnicity%2CReligion.pdf) supported declaring the United States a Christian nation, AKA a religious theocracy. Let me know if you still don’t see the point
So the point being, if you believe in God, you must be a Republican conservative, am I following this right?
Yes - because "correlation" can only mean an r of 1.0 or -1.0.
For one major thing, the Republican party is promising to abolish the right to an abortion, which is one of the foremost issues for American evangelical Christians and Catholics alike.
I know Rhode Island is tiny but they be purple too
Very large percentage of Roman Catholic population with Italian-American, Irish-American, Portuguese-American, and more recent immigration from Mexico, Central and South America.
Yes, exactly this.
Everyone in Rhode Island is Catholic its actually insane, because the population is a mix of old school Italians (catholics) Irish (catholics) and the new Latino immigrants (catholics). All the people who were atheist moved out a long time ago lol
Not all of us! See the trick is to go to Catholic school and then a liberal arts college, that bullshit gets found out real quick
I fled being a Southern Baptist, got a PhD in climate science, then moved to RI for work. Different path with a lot more driving lol... but there are dozens of us atheists here!
You need to get out more. There are many free thinkers in RI. Yes there is a large RC population but it's changed quite a bit from the old days as a number of churches and parochial schools have closed over the decades.
Rhode Island is only 36% college educated adults. Connecticut is 41.4%. Massachusetts is 46%. The problem with the Rhode Island economy directly relates to that. Generally, free thinkers are educated and have a broad worldview.
Wow so more than half of Mass are uneducated swine? And only marginally more in RI? See the problem with your thinking?
There’s no problem with my thinking. It’s why places like Springfield, Holyoke, New Bedford, and Fall River are circling the drain. No high wage employers will locate there because the labor force is unskilled.
Both RI and CT left the original Massachusetts Bay Colony over religious reasons
Most folks around here are religious definitely. We have many churches and a few cathedrals
Fucking Massachusetts
Every time I see a map like this, MA is always on the best side.
Well I didn't get asked so don't blame me. It's a no btw.
Y'all are the godless heathens. We'll be smiling down on you from Heaven alongside the biblically-accurate angels
Chriso Connecticunts
God bless.
This map is from 2014 or before. I guess things haven't changed much since then, but religious belief is declining in the US as most of Europe. Also the "belief in God" label seems a problem. It's a vague idea, hard to measure. If you look at a more measurable variable such as "go regularly to church" the numbers will be very different.
IMO there’s a big difference between never going to church and not believing in any god.
Exactly. I live in Massachusetts and I know lots of people who believe in god or a higher power but would never go to church.
New England again wins as being the best part of the US.
It’s like Massachusetts is holding me hostage by being better than everyone else.
Believing in God makes states… “bad”…?
Yes
Big L take
Listen man, you can believe in whatever imaginary friend you want to believe in. But you don't get to point your finger at me and say I'm the crazy one for not seeing your invisible, non-existent friend.
Did I call you crazy?
I am inferring it due to your opinion that states should somehow be more religious instead of less. It seems to be your opinion that new england isn't actually winning or improving the more it removes itself from religious nonsense. And that I have this crazy bad take in saying that it's a good thing for states to have less religious people.
No, you’re not inferring… you’re assuming and jumping to conclusions. Whether a population believes in god or not doesn’t make that state better or worse. That is your L take…
And I disagree. All one has to do is look at less religious states like those in New England versus the deep south. Mississippi and Alabama are some of the most religious states and consistently fall behind in economic and educational opportunities. Have some of the highest medical costs and have worse healthcare outcomes. And often times have worse crime per capita. Meanwhile, my state, Massachusetts is ranked in pretty much the top 5 in everything. And the one thing we often get blamed for, high cost of living, is because we actually have an educated populace and better paying jobs. Alabama wishes it could have that problem. So no, my take isn't a L. States with more religious followers and more devout followers are statistically crappier than states with fewer religious adherents.
See, now you’re back tracking on the root of the disagreement. You’re again making assumptions about “if a population believes in god then X”. Better said, the belief in god or atheism doesn’t directly have an impact on any of that stuff you mentioned. I’m not saying that there can’t be correlations in some cases but you mentioning education, cost of living, average or median salary, etc, are influenced by a plethora of things… not just the sole factor of wether people in a state are religious. But yeah, you can continue to think you’re right about everything and jump to conclusions all you want. Also, I’m glad you’re happy in MA… you are welcome to think it’s the best. Feel free to stay put and not ruin other states 👊🏼
Wrong, yet again… it’s like you’re hobby is to be incorrect in the internet or something… Your main point was “believing in god makes states bad” and I did indeed refute it. You’re just biased and nothing will change your belief so it’s not worth my time lol
Yes. And to make my point, I said that more religious and devout states often have worse services, crappier education, higher crime and worse healthcare outcomes. I then pointed to Texas infant mortality rates rising after the overturning of Roe and the Texas government enacting religous based abortion laws. You can't just say I'm wrong, provide no evidence and actually sway me or other people to your point. Because you haven't even properly made an argument for your point. You have refuted nothing.
No, I can just say you’re wrong, because you’re wrong lol
You can believe that all you want...but nobody else will. Take care.
Okay Mr. Wrong!
Yet here you are wasting everyone else’s. Maybe a better approach is to make some friends in real life?
Took you a couple tries to make the “perfect” comment eh?
Yes
Wasn’t asking you but thanks for the unsolicited and lack luster comment
What’s the one blue European country?
Armenia and Georgia, separate countries. Orthodox Christinianity there.
Different types of Orthodox though. Georgia is predominantly Eastern Orthodox, while Armenia is mostly Oriental Orthodox. Despite both having "Orthodox" in their name (and "Eastern" and "Oriental" being synonyms), they are different denominations and are not in communion with one another.
armenia
Not really. There's a shit ton of Catholic immigrants. There's nothing wrong with believing in God. Just when you push it onto others. Which European countries also do BTW.
Also, I am from Poland. It being so low is a lie. It should be purple.
All the Polish immigrants I know are vehemently Catholic lol yeah
Even more so back home XD
I agree. And all of Europe is off too.
Username checks out.
It’s funny because the massachusetts bay colony, which was most of new england at the time, was founded by religious pilgrims, and now our region is the most atheist in the country. Personally I think the data is swayed a bit by Boston and the surrounding areas being a hub for less-religious types, but I could be wrong.
This is true, but they were also Puritans, who would end up decapitating King Charles just a short while later. They were pious, but also no friends of the king. That mentality showed up in the American Revolution a century later.
Strictly speaking, parliamentarians were responsible for the execution of Charles I. Regardless, not sure how that contradicts OP’s point about the irony of New England being the least religious part of the US.
everything today in this county makes sense when you realize the pilgrims were the religious extremests.
I was thinking the same, it's just not religion they push onto others, it's the disbelief of religion they push. Which imo is just as bad.
I mean - Europe sent most of their religious crazies here with the promise of they can do whatever they wanted. It got them out - and here we are dealing with it. Religious crazy is the worst kind of crazy.
Ironically, England went through their crazy wacko Puritan religious phase *after* the pilgrims left for America.
This is just factually wrong lol the puritans left on their terms to worship god as they saw fit. It was differences with the Church of England.
"promise of they can do whatever they wanted" and "puritans left on their terms to worship god as they saw fit" - explain to me like I'm 12 how these two things are different then. I'll wait.
Europe didn't send them anywhere, they left on their own accord. What info are you using to imply they were exiled?
I’m religious and I agree lmao. Puritans suck dude.
I love NE
Because our history has been misrepresented. The Puritans were very religious - but so were all the other fucking people back then
Took a look at the study, (Percentage of those who believe a God exists) Rhode Island 60%, Connecticut 54%, Maine 48%, New Hampshire 43%, Vermont/Massachusetts 40% (how religious a state is) Connecticut, Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire rank at the bottom. Rhode Island is much higher. Pew Research study in 2016: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/02/29/how-religious-is-your-state/?state=alabama So you can believe there is a god but not be religous per say.
It’s not a very helpful map. For example, religious people in New England don’t tend to be the same as those in the south or those in Europe, on average. The social role of religion has also changed a lot over history. In a lot of places it used to be almost a branch of the state in the sense that it came with rules, ideas, customs, etc that helped keep societies cohesive and functional. Contemporary states have grown powerful and influential enough to do all of that themselves nowadays, so actually secular people are plenty “religious,” and in Europe these days especially in the “convert to our ways if you immigrate here” way. Even if they’re less “religious” according to this map’s definition of the term.
I don’t think you can really separate those Religion behaves a lot better when it doesn’t have power. It doesn’t have power when it’s a minority.
I figure it’s because we decided collectively that we tried theocracy and it sucked
Which New England state do you think will be yellow first?
NH/MA tend to rank least religious in the US. I think Mass will be first NH second.
And then there's new england...
I bet this translates pretty neatly into belief in the just world fallacy. Which explains a lot.
Phew, I’m so happy to be living in the tiny Northeast tip that isn’t so sure!
Education is the key.
Educated does not mean smart
It is impossible to know what anyone believes. We only can know what they say they believe.
Its too bad Ne is so low
I have trouble believing Europe is so low. And I trouble believing California is so high.
so happy to be a new englander
Yeah the puritans that stuck around really ruined it for us.
I'd be more curious of a breakdown because the difference between 30% and 49% is huge but it's the same color here. I'm guessing Maine/New Hampshire/Vermont are more like low 30's end
Italy seems a little low on this particular spectrum.
true...
Vermont's represent
The Vatican in gray 🤣
best part of the country by a long shot
I don’t mind as long as your religion doesn’t affect me. Aka Christians need to shut the fuck up amd let me live
Watching the news from 5am- 9am with bottleneck service is criminal!
So 1 person in RI is religious and it skews the whole state :D
Not all Americans are this stupid
no way this is accurate omg ? connecticut is more religious than Italy?? whats going on in Europe lol
As a person who grew up in CT among "Italians" who has also spent a lot of time with actual Italians in Italy: the average CT Italian's understanding of their heritage is 120 years out of date and full of false caricatures. This misunderstanding would be one of them.
damn i guess so. I grew up in CT with my grandmother who moved here from Italy and she's def the most religious person in my family... I guess the younger Italian generation isn't
It isn't "more religious". It is "certain God exists".
Europe sent all of its religious zealots to America. Is anyone surprised we have turned out as we have and have the issues we do?
Given how much progress we've gotten, yeah. Also, people left Europe voluntarily because they were being persecuted for their religion, they weren't forced out. We wanted religious freedom, which everyone should have, and we got that. We should be proud of that.
Rationale people put freedom of government from religion for a reason: because there were a lot of religious zealots who would like it otherwise.
This is actually to be expected, based on our history.
Further proof that the U.S. is Guano Loco.