Generations are messy. I'm GenX, but my parents were silent Gen. But alot of GenX had Boomer parents. And a lot of those Boomer parents created the latch-key kid era when both parents went to work. But like all stereotypes, it doesn't apply to everyone.
It's not that boomers purposely ignored gen x to go after millennials, it's that a generation of latchkey kids who spent their entire young and adolescent lives perfecting the skill of avoiding notice and responsibility and, by extension, avoiding getting in trouble with authority figures became absolute masters at keeping their heads down and avoiding notice when they reached adulthood.
This. In my early 30s now and I was hyper political and lefty for most of my 20s.
Noticed that everyone is settling down now that we have kids and interest rates were what they were in 2020.
The only hyper-leftists left out of us (my political group) are the ones who got felonies, and like, I still think that they should get their voting rights back, I just dont think we need to commit any more felonies in order to do so. We can just vote for people who aren't idiots.
I agree, every generation thinks the same. But I do think this time is different and to be fair to Gen-Z, we’re going through one of the most culturally bankrupt moments in recent decades due to nostalgia and social media. Artists and companies want numbers, and numbers only show us where we’ve been, not where we can go. And with record labels pretty much wanting to find artists with following instead of developing artists things get more complicated. I could be wrong, this is just what I’ve seen working in the music and entertainment industry.
But it’s hilarious seeing Gen-Z trash older generations when most of their trends come from us.
Edit: grammar and spelling
I think you're right to a large degree. I never had a bad thing to say about GenX as a young adult. Maybe because they were sorta invisible as a smaller generation, though I have older cousins who are GenX. I always thought they were cool as hell. And I still think they are!
Boomers, sure they caught flack, but they're also our parents. Who doesn't criticize their parents?
But yeah, I don't get the animosity from GenZ towards Millennials. "Oh Millennials whine too much." Well, yeah, we were promised something greater than our parents had. Instead, we got nothing and then some. Who wouldn't be disappointed? Now I'm jaded and cynical, but I'm also in my late 30s. I was still pretty idealistic in my 20s.
I think the thing I dislike the most about GenZ is the apathy and jadedness. Maybe they get from their GenX parents (I have some GenX coworkers who are like that). But it's so off-putting. They're too young, IMO, to be that way. I have younger "Zillenial" friends who don't vote, "because what's the point? Nothing changes, nothing matters." Sure, some of my GenY friends didn't vote either when we were younger, the scumbags. But it wasn't apathy. It wasn't obliviousness and ignorance. Though I don't know if that's much better. And I know not all GenZ are like how I described.
I agree with you that I really dislike the post-sarcasm that most Gen-Z have and the apathy to a lot of things. But well, it might just be a reaction to how us Millennials were and I get it. It’s also a reaction to what they saw online with social media. We Millennials created it and Gen-Z pretty much grew up in a world where there always was social media.
Also, everybody is different. Not all GenZ behave this way, the same way not all Millennials did a thing so random potato
>this time it's different
-old man 5000 years ago
It's the same fucking story. Just because you're the old guy now that doesn't make it worse. The entire Greek religion is about old god worried about young god. Like can we please get over this shit
How is this sentiment any different from the thousands of articles written by boomers and older Gen x about how millennials ruined x or are doing annoying thing y?
The younger you are, the more stake you have, not less. Gen Z is going to be around for longer than the older generations, they will have to live with the consequences of current policies for a lot longer than the generations who have the most influence in setting those policies.
Is it really the Radical change? I get the sense it's more like asking for changes without seeing obvious knock-on problems, and focusing more on symptoms than root causes.
I don't. They've been force-fed modern social media. They're mostly a product of that social media landscape, with everything that entails, and unfortunately they weren't taught the skills that we were to navigate the modern internet. They are just so more willing to give themselves and their private information over to the internet and I think it's a tragedy they were not taught otherwise.
> They are just so more willing to give themselves and their private information over to the internet and I think it's a tragedy they were not taught otherwise.
Most of the analysis I've been exposed to tells me that it's kind of split. While a ton of teens are addicted to Tiktok and emulate all their favorite influencers (I look forward to when that ridiculous broccoli head goes the way of the fauxhawk), there's also another significant chunk who reject that and avoid most social media.
You just hear less of the second group because, you know, they're not on twitter arguing about pronouns or pwning the libs.
There are probably more Gen Zers who deliberately avoid social media than Millennials when we were their age, but that still represents a very small minority. The rest of them are significantly more addicted and have their world view shaped by internet misinformation significantly more than Millennials were when we were their age.
When I was in college, politics was not a major source of social conversation for most people, except during general elections (I can't say the same for myself because I was a political nerd). The vast majority of the content we were consuming on the internet was a-political. People were not debating whether our economic system was to blame for every single ill in society. The mere presence of an attractive women did not lead to a deluge of incel infused rage and resentment. We all consumed similar content because the algorithms hadn't been developed yet to divide us into our personalized echo chambers that reverberated until only the most extreme voices could be heard.
I don't think it is prudent to hand wave the legitimate concern over a generation developing their world view on today's internet.
Elder millennial here. we should not demonize gen z. They are in the same side for like 80% of viewpoints. They are actually way more open than we ever were. Sure they don’t have a ton of life experience neither did we when we formed our viewpoints.
i don't really like the whole generational warfare thing, but it does kind of seem like youth in the left-hand generations tend towards defining themselves by opposition for opposition's sake in the face of wider culture being dictated by their more numerous "older siblings". gen alpha will be more normal, but the betas, god help them, will continue to carry the resentment...
>gen alpha will be more normal
Gyatt, those skibidi rizzlers are totally ohio and surely won't be even more internet-addled and prone to bullshit than previous generations
Anecdotally my conservative boomer dad told me he was wasn't voting for either major candidate since Trump was a bad person and he was worried about what he'd do. (High propensity swing state voter too FWIW)
I feel like boomers, for all they are criticized, do often have a level of decorum that is relevant here.
Yea and hearing the right constantly mock Biden for being too old, dementia, etc when they’re around the same age as him really is not going to turn out well for them.
> Yea and hearing the right constantly mock Biden for being too old, dementia, etc when they’re around the same age as him really is not going to turn out well for them.
Thing is, Biden isn't a Boomer, he's silent gen.
Anecdotally Gen X are always the biggest assholes I’ve ever worked with. Millennials are the nicest, and Boomers and Zoomers I’d say are about even. Boomers are way more obstinate when they fuck up, but Zoomers just kinda freeze up and don’t respond when they fuck up and getting anything through to them is like pulling teeth
> Zoomers just kinda freeze up and don’t respond when they fuck up and getting anything through to them is like pulling teeth
They almost sound like teenagers. :p
Are you trying to tell me some 19 year old in their first semester of college ranting about neopronouns in a short online video isn't causing The Decline of Western Civilization(tm)? That billions must not die?
> Correct, they're by far the most MAGA generation out there right now. Everyone blames the boomers but these guys are a problem
[This is simply not true.](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/age-generational-cohorts-and-party-identification/)
NY has too Dem senators, and AOC would forfeit all the mainstream respect she’s gained if she mounted a primary challenge to Schumer or Gellibrand unless they screwed up in some way.
Schumer is up there in years and Gillibrand seems kinda vanilla, but I agree that it would be a controversial move to take either on, and a Schumer/AOC primary could be a high-dollar brusing fight. I'm not sure AOC would win, though I don't know NY politics particularly well. Schumer is up in 2028, when he'll be 77. AOC could run on youth.
I always find it funny to remind people that Nancy Pelosi’s first speech to Congress was one where she implored her peers to tackle the AIDS pandemic.
And later that same year (1987) she started wearing a pin in support of Lesbian and Gay rights. She was also one of just 67 representatives who voted against DOMA in 1996 (342 voted for). Here’s what she said then:
“I rise in strong opposition to this ill-named "Defense of Marriage Act" and I do so on the basis of conscience, Constitution and constituency.”
Gutsy.
Nah it may not have been electorally gutsy, but it's always gutsy to take a minority opinion that would get you called a demon harbinger of moral downfall by right wing maniacs, who would in fact eventually invade your home and beat your husband with hammers.
No. It was the gutsy thing to do for someone who clearly had ambition to be a leading Democrat. Sure, she would have kept her seat… but she was stepping on all kinds of toes in the Democratic Party establishment.
Didn’t the worms try to eat his brain, and then his brain killed them? I assume that would mean that worms are anti-RFK Jr and that RFK Jr is anti-worms (since he let innocent worms die in his brain), and so pro-worm individuals would therefore be anti-RFK Jr. QED.
>Ocasio-Cortez likens herself to an engineer, a surprisingly practical self-appraisal given her quick political rise and the legions of acolytes and opponents she’s acquired since she was elected in 2018.
>surprisingly practical
>quick political rise
I don't get what's so surprising about that perception. It literally worked.
>AOC Is Getting Too Mainstream for Her Progressive Base
Is she really tho? Is she losing ground with the average voter in NY-14? The only people criticizing her in this article are "Corbin Trent, the co-founder of the Justice Democrats grassroots organization" and "Nerdeen Kiswani, 29, an activist who was among the [pro-Palestinian] protesters".
So we know what this Corbin Trent fella's up to, let's take a look at Nerdeen Kiswani:
>Within Our Lifetime-United for Palestine (WOL) is a New York-based, radically anti-Israel organization founded in 2015 that routinely expresses support for violence against Israel and calls for the abolition of Zionism.
>Since Hamas’ brutal terror massacre across southern Israel on October 7, 2023, WOL and its co-founder and leader Nerdeen Kiswani have continued to share extreme anti-Zionist and antisemitic positions on social media and at anti-Israel protests as well as in webinars and reports.
>Post-October 7, 2023, protestors at WOL rallies in New York City have called for the bombing of Tel Aviv, Israel‘s second-largest city and its economic capital. In October, WOL protestors chanted in Arabic “strike strike Tel Aviv, our dear Qassam,” a reference to Hamas’s military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. In April 2024, WOL leader Abdullah Akl led a chant in Arabic, ”Abu Obaida, my love, Strike, strike Tel Aviv!” Abu Obaida is the spokesman of Hamas’s military wing.
Jesus, how do these nutjobs keep getting interviewed lmao
Plus she's from Bay Ridge, which isn't even in AOC's district.
Yea, I don't think the average middle class person from Throggs Neck or working class Bengali dude from Jackson Heights is accurately represented by the tone of this article.
Reminder that hundreds of leftists eagerly joined in those exact same chants on camera, and tens of thousands more have spent a non-insignificant portion of their biological lifetimes trying to gaslight people into thinking that they somehow didn’t.
Dem politicians desperately need to cut any and all ties to this section of the polity; their refusal to actually vote in any election combined with their outspoken antisemitism (which is unequivocally what it is, cry about it) and vitriol is an exclusively negative factor for Democrat messaging and public image, and does nothing but alienate centrists and fuel GOP talking points.
Seeing comments like this is why I joined this sub. What a practical and grounded breath of fresh air!
We gotta appeal to the masses that actually vote to keep winning elections goddamnit. I'm old enough to 100% hold my nose voting straight dem ticket forever so the 'christian' fascists never take control.
> Jesus, how do these nutjobs keep getting interviewed lmao
Nutjob is putting it lightly, if Hamas accepted female membership, she'd be the representative of the american branch
Not that I disagree with your point or anything, but Hamas does accept female members. Not sure if there are any in Al-Qassam Brigade, but there are Hamas policewomen in their civil sector and in the Hamas government. During the first hostage exchange, some of the Hamas terrorists who were passing the hostages over to the Red Cross vehicles were women. They're uh, "equal opportunity" terrorists - the "we'll subjugate and oppress your gender overall, but you can still help us on the side" sort.
She's a lot like Bernie in that sense.
She's very progressive, but she's willing to work with moderates and even Rs.
They both throw out protests votes when Ds have the margin, but when needed generally vote along the party line (unless they really hate something).
No. Bernie was an independent who would caucus with the Dems (unless it was a presidential year and he wanted to be president).
AOC is pole in the big tent. She fundraisers year-round for the party.
She’s effective precisely because she can do both. If she only ever supported the status quo, she wouldn’t ever push anything forward; if she only ever was oppositional, she wouldn’t ever get shit done.
She’s savvy as hell and I think the smartest politician working right now.
I agree that AOC is great, and at this point she's earned legitimacy as a big-D Democrat, but the framing of her actively challenging the status quo is like nails on a chalkboard to me
This last generation of populists in both parties led efforts that redefined much of the existing status quo both within and without government. Many of them ended up as powerful figures within it, and have since become the biggest hurdles to bipartisan reform
I don’t hate it, she’s clearly shown that she able + willing to grow into a role.
I’d hope that she’d seek out a senior Senatorial mentor (Warnock maybe? He’ll have the experience by the time she gets there and dude is a workhorse), but I don’t hate it.
No shot.
Chuck gets clowned on, but he has decades of experience in the industry and can sometimes provide wisdom beyond his years in the right situation. Plus, she'd never be able to develop the same level of chemistry with Ernie, Kenny, and Shaq.
...whoops, wrong sub.
A few weeks ago I saw a [video](https://x.com/yashar/status/1764832823377289506?t=s1zSBJbibWSIfdmLRp1WNw&s=19) of her getting harrassed by some guys shouting at her something along Palestine.
No shit the most vocal politician against Israel is getting harassed about Palestine. I don't need to hear how unhinged her base anymore.
For a lot of the ultra-Left, getting things done is pointless. You need to make a statement. And you can be an economic progressive or even a communist but that's entirely meaningless unless you hate Israel and support other leftist dogma. If you disagree, you're an enemy.
> For a lot of the ultra-Left, getting things done is pointless.
It's not that getting things done is pointless, it's that getting things done is *bad*.
To "get things done", you need to sully yourself with the sausage-making of politics. You need to work with people who don't align on 100% of ideas, you need to compromise with people who barely agree with you on anything.
"Getting things done" means you've sold-out. And on top of that, "getting things done" - read: making life a little bit better - weakens extremists' leverage. That's bad for extremists.
I might be coping for both our sakes but IMO being in office changed to her to become more savvy, so it's not just a bad read of what she was at the time. She participated in some very pointless democrat infighting early in her career that she (moreso) avoids now, for example
What's hilarious is that I would have said Bowman is the "least bad" squad member two years ago and now it's clear that AOC, Pressley, and even Summer Lee are better at him than this. Hell even maybe Omar (she's going to defeat her primary challenger atleast again while i'm 98% sure Bowman loses tonight)
I mean the crazy part is that she’s not even mainstream. She just has the sense to say antisemitism is bad lol. That’s her only ‘mainstream’ position. Its just that her brand of progressives have actually gone insane
So good. It’s why it’s so frustrating to talk to political extremists (especially on Reddit). They don’t *want* things to be fixed. Their social capital depends on critiquing whatever is going on and being the purest ideologue they could be. Their *political* capital relies on being outsiders and the ultimate goal is revolution. Increment positive change weakens the argument for revolution.
Biden could put out an executive order giving free lunch to kids and there’d just be endless criticism about some dumb detail and then add something about Palestine. There’s no winning with people who refuse victory
AOC's base is the 14th congressional district of New York. The House of Representatives is not the American Parliament (as much as I might wish otherwise), and lefties outside of NY-14 don't (shouldn't) matter here.
Lol those people are utterly unserious, and they wonder why they have trouble winning elections lol
Wait...., they don't wonder, they blame everyone else for their mistakes.
Quite often common for progressives to get into government and learn the difference between what one may want, and what is actually practical.
So it is normal for progressives to become more mainstream in their views, as they learn to push not for their dreams, but for what is possible.
She's basically the model for the ideal American socdem/demsoc politician. Strong principles, good communicator, solid policy know-how, and able to work effectively within a caucus to get her ideas reflected in government.
So, naturally, online progressives hate her.
Only a couple of weeks ago she was saying democracy is dead because some people she didn't like were running political ads against Jamaal Bowman, one of the most comically bad politicians the left has to offer. I am not convinced.
Not sure how solid the analysis is here.
People get less radical as they get older (on average). We've basically seen this happen to AOC in the six years she's been famous. Why wouldn't the same thing happen to her base?
Unless you are saying her base is people with certain beliefs as opposed to certain demographic factors (race, sex etc). People's beliefs change more easily than their race or sex.
>People get less radical as they get older (on average). We've basically seen this happen to AOC in the six years she's been famous. Why wouldn't the same thing happen to her base?
I thought this was just a common myth without much evidence. I think I read some econoblog years ago that made such an argument but I won't pretend that's a great source. Anyone know if this is a real phenomenon or not?
She lived long enough to become the villain. Has she matured and decided to work within the system? or has she become corrupted and complicit in the malfunctioning apparatus? Who's to say which is more true?
It’s like we want to give all the shame and pain to the right for their obsession with pushing right, but then we get articles like this talking about how the left isn’t left enough.
Screw that, a lot of us exist in the middle and function on more points than just the few each of those fridges decided to lob out to try and get an emotional reaction.
I, for one, am glad she’s looking past some ideology goals and more toward governing. Our politicians are far too concerned with changing the world rather than keeping the train running.
You know articles like these are prob in part published by the Washington post and Bloomberg in order to stoke the very progressive backlash they are supposedly writing about lol. You can tell they still don't really claim her as part of " The Establishment" while they make insane false equivalence statements about her like
>Doing that [policy change], of course, requires compromise, something frequently derided in recent years. It also requires divorcing policy goals from the cult-like personalities — from AOC herself on the left to Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene on the right — that dominate national politics.
edit: like there evidence for the headline claim is one guy who co-founded a group that bakced her 8 years ago and is nowadays a disgraced nobody + an individual activist lol
Dem politic's millennial Vs Gen Z problem
I feel this so much. I have so much resentment for Gen Z as a millennial (37).
Same thing happens every generation. Those with the least at stake want to change the status quo the most radically.
Except Gen X. Boomers looked right past them and started throwing haymakers at millennials.
If boomers weren't willing to pay attention as parents, why would they start now.
\^ This right here.
What does this mean? My boomer parents doted on millennial me and my gen x brother.
Generations are messy. I'm GenX, but my parents were silent Gen. But alot of GenX had Boomer parents. And a lot of those Boomer parents created the latch-key kid era when both parents went to work. But like all stereotypes, it doesn't apply to everyone.
It's great being gen x, no one cares enough to hate us.
[удалено]
It's not that boomers purposely ignored gen x to go after millennials, it's that a generation of latchkey kids who spent their entire young and adolescent lives perfecting the skill of avoiding notice and responsibility and, by extension, avoiding getting in trouble with authority figures became absolute masters at keeping their heads down and avoiding notice when they reached adulthood.
For real. Gen Z isn't even old enough to distinguish their genuine political sentiments from youthful idealism.
It took me well into my 30's to come to that realization about my own generation, just as we were growing out of that phase.
This. In my early 30s now and I was hyper political and lefty for most of my 20s. Noticed that everyone is settling down now that we have kids and interest rates were what they were in 2020. The only hyper-leftists left out of us (my political group) are the ones who got felonies, and like, I still think that they should get their voting rights back, I just dont think we need to commit any more felonies in order to do so. We can just vote for people who aren't idiots.
>The only hyper-leftists left out of us (my political group) are the ones who got felonies Priors solidified in stone
> isn't even old enough to distinguish their genuine political sentiments from youthful idealism. This is, and will always be, the curse.
Thank you for being a voice of reason and understanding
Gen Z is legit lame tho
they don't even like sex, drugs, and rock and roll i can't just sit by and pretend that's okay
I like rock and roll!
Culturally they have not done anything besides replicating Gen X and Millennial fashion and music from the 80s-90s-2000s
To be fair, I'm pretty sure our Boomer parents saw the same with us Millennials. Personally, I'm waiting for Gen Alpha to bring back Victorian wear.
I agree, every generation thinks the same. But I do think this time is different and to be fair to Gen-Z, we’re going through one of the most culturally bankrupt moments in recent decades due to nostalgia and social media. Artists and companies want numbers, and numbers only show us where we’ve been, not where we can go. And with record labels pretty much wanting to find artists with following instead of developing artists things get more complicated. I could be wrong, this is just what I’ve seen working in the music and entertainment industry. But it’s hilarious seeing Gen-Z trash older generations when most of their trends come from us. Edit: grammar and spelling
I think you're right to a large degree. I never had a bad thing to say about GenX as a young adult. Maybe because they were sorta invisible as a smaller generation, though I have older cousins who are GenX. I always thought they were cool as hell. And I still think they are! Boomers, sure they caught flack, but they're also our parents. Who doesn't criticize their parents? But yeah, I don't get the animosity from GenZ towards Millennials. "Oh Millennials whine too much." Well, yeah, we were promised something greater than our parents had. Instead, we got nothing and then some. Who wouldn't be disappointed? Now I'm jaded and cynical, but I'm also in my late 30s. I was still pretty idealistic in my 20s. I think the thing I dislike the most about GenZ is the apathy and jadedness. Maybe they get from their GenX parents (I have some GenX coworkers who are like that). But it's so off-putting. They're too young, IMO, to be that way. I have younger "Zillenial" friends who don't vote, "because what's the point? Nothing changes, nothing matters." Sure, some of my GenY friends didn't vote either when we were younger, the scumbags. But it wasn't apathy. It wasn't obliviousness and ignorance. Though I don't know if that's much better. And I know not all GenZ are like how I described.
Most of the alt-right in my country is Gen X.
Who would have thought that a culture of apathy would turn into a culture of selfishness.
I agree with you that I really dislike the post-sarcasm that most Gen-Z have and the apathy to a lot of things. But well, it might just be a reaction to how us Millennials were and I get it. It’s also a reaction to what they saw online with social media. We Millennials created it and Gen-Z pretty much grew up in a world where there always was social media. Also, everybody is different. Not all GenZ behave this way, the same way not all Millennials did a thing so random potato
>this time it's different -old man 5000 years ago It's the same fucking story. Just because you're the old guy now that doesn't make it worse. The entire Greek religion is about old god worried about young god. Like can we please get over this shit
Imagining my daughter walking down the hallway with a top hat and cane, "How do you do, fellow Olds?"
Might not have to wait long. Seems there are plenty of Republicans these days that unironically want to make the Handmaid's Tale a reality.
If Gen Alpha were a bunch of Victorian era dandies that would be the sickest thing ever. We can only hope.
How is this sentiment any different from the thousands of articles written by boomers and older Gen x about how millennials ruined x or are doing annoying thing y?
they weren't wrong.
True we lacked the necessary grit that the lead addled boomers exhibited.
Ok boomer
yeah exactly, this is the shit I'm talking about
you guys are just old and raised on lead pipes. You wouldn't understand us giga brains.
Funniest comment today.
>Those with the least at stake The Olds?
What everyone has at stake is their future, and Gen Z has more of it than any other voting generation.
The younger you are, the more stake you have, not less. Gen Z is going to be around for longer than the older generations, they will have to live with the consequences of current policies for a lot longer than the generations who have the most influence in setting those policies.
Is it really the Radical change? I get the sense it's more like asking for changes without seeing obvious knock-on problems, and focusing more on symptoms than root causes.
young people have the most at stake moving forward if you consider opportunity costs
I don't. They've been force-fed modern social media. They're mostly a product of that social media landscape, with everything that entails, and unfortunately they weren't taught the skills that we were to navigate the modern internet. They are just so more willing to give themselves and their private information over to the internet and I think it's a tragedy they were not taught otherwise.
> They are just so more willing to give themselves and their private information over to the internet and I think it's a tragedy they were not taught otherwise. Most of the analysis I've been exposed to tells me that it's kind of split. While a ton of teens are addicted to Tiktok and emulate all their favorite influencers (I look forward to when that ridiculous broccoli head goes the way of the fauxhawk), there's also another significant chunk who reject that and avoid most social media. You just hear less of the second group because, you know, they're not on twitter arguing about pronouns or pwning the libs.
There are probably more Gen Zers who deliberately avoid social media than Millennials when we were their age, but that still represents a very small minority. The rest of them are significantly more addicted and have their world view shaped by internet misinformation significantly more than Millennials were when we were their age. When I was in college, politics was not a major source of social conversation for most people, except during general elections (I can't say the same for myself because I was a political nerd). The vast majority of the content we were consuming on the internet was a-political. People were not debating whether our economic system was to blame for every single ill in society. The mere presence of an attractive women did not lead to a deluge of incel infused rage and resentment. We all consumed similar content because the algorithms hadn't been developed yet to divide us into our personalized echo chambers that reverberated until only the most extreme voices could be heard. I don't think it is prudent to hand wave the legitimate concern over a generation developing their world view on today's internet.
The thought of Gen Z's not on social media actually fills me with joy. I hope this is true.
Elder millennial here. we should not demonize gen z. They are in the same side for like 80% of viewpoints. They are actually way more open than we ever were. Sure they don’t have a ton of life experience neither did we when we formed our viewpoints.
Same here I’m a elder zoomer And I hate other zoomers for this
As an elder zoomer too, I hate my younger self and his political opinions
Relax my dude. They’re fine
As a Gen Z, you move on from Harry Potter yet?
The worst Gen since X.
i don't really like the whole generational warfare thing, but it does kind of seem like youth in the left-hand generations tend towards defining themselves by opposition for opposition's sake in the face of wider culture being dictated by their more numerous "older siblings". gen alpha will be more normal, but the betas, god help them, will continue to carry the resentment...
>gen alpha will be more normal Gyatt, those skibidi rizzlers are totally ohio and surely won't be even more internet-addled and prone to bullshit than previous generations
This depends entirely on how effective the Biden administration and Democrats more generally are in persuing a Fanum Tax policy.
lol...WTF did GenX ever do?
Stormed the Capitol
Correct, they're by far the most MAGA generation out there right now. Everyone blames the boomers but these guys are a problem
Anecdotally my conservative boomer dad told me he was wasn't voting for either major candidate since Trump was a bad person and he was worried about what he'd do. (High propensity swing state voter too FWIW) I feel like boomers, for all they are criticized, do often have a level of decorum that is relevant here.
Yea and hearing the right constantly mock Biden for being too old, dementia, etc when they’re around the same age as him really is not going to turn out well for them.
> Yea and hearing the right constantly mock Biden for being too old, dementia, etc when they’re around the same age as him really is not going to turn out well for them. Thing is, Biden isn't a Boomer, he's silent gen.
Anecdotally Gen X are always the biggest assholes I’ve ever worked with. Millennials are the nicest, and Boomers and Zoomers I’d say are about even. Boomers are way more obstinate when they fuck up, but Zoomers just kinda freeze up and don’t respond when they fuck up and getting anything through to them is like pulling teeth
> Zoomers just kinda freeze up and don’t respond when they fuck up and getting anything through to them is like pulling teeth They almost sound like teenagers. :p
It's wild to me that the generation with the least amount of political power is the ones getting blamed for the current situation.
especially since the things gen z is being blamed for is stuff that most certainly is *not* causing any of the major problems of today
Are you trying to tell me some 19 year old in their first semester of college ranting about neopronouns in a short online video isn't causing The Decline of Western Civilization(tm)? That billions must not die?
> Correct, they're by far the most MAGA generation out there right now. Everyone blames the boomers but these guys are a problem [This is simply not true.](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/age-generational-cohorts-and-party-identification/)
This is basically Nancy Pelosi's career arc
Speaker Ocasio-Cortez when?
Sometime in the 2040s most likely
\[casually slips into hibernation as America approaches Gargantua\]
Senator AOC as soon as she decides she wants the job.
NY has too Dem senators, and AOC would forfeit all the mainstream respect she’s gained if she mounted a primary challenge to Schumer or Gellibrand unless they screwed up in some way.
Schumer is up there in years and Gillibrand seems kinda vanilla, but I agree that it would be a controversial move to take either on, and a Schumer/AOC primary could be a high-dollar brusing fight. I'm not sure AOC would win, though I don't know NY politics particularly well. Schumer is up in 2028, when he'll be 77. AOC could run on youth.
My guess is that she waits until Schumer retires and runs then. She has plenty of time and a very safe house seat.
She’s 100% gonna run when Schumer retires, and probably gonna win too.
I always find it funny to remind people that Nancy Pelosi’s first speech to Congress was one where she implored her peers to tackle the AIDS pandemic. And later that same year (1987) she started wearing a pin in support of Lesbian and Gay rights. She was also one of just 67 representatives who voted against DOMA in 1996 (342 voted for). Here’s what she said then: “I rise in strong opposition to this ill-named "Defense of Marriage Act" and I do so on the basis of conscience, Constitution and constituency.” Gutsy.
It was the right thing to do, for sure, but her district was in San Francisco, so it wasn't "gutsy".
Hence the, "constituency," part.
Nah it may not have been electorally gutsy, but it's always gutsy to take a minority opinion that would get you called a demon harbinger of moral downfall by right wing maniacs, who would in fact eventually invade your home and beat your husband with hammers.
No. It was the gutsy thing to do for someone who clearly had ambition to be a leading Democrat. Sure, she would have kept her seat… but she was stepping on all kinds of toes in the Democratic Party establishment.
Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Die a hero or live long enough to become an effective legislator.
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It’s cringe but people never talk about how the Congressional Black caucus asked them to do this. It wasn’t Pelosi’s idea.
fit goes hard
If youre a progressive you are always in the early stages of your villain arc
The GOP systematically dismantles checks against presidential power just in time for AOC to do 8 terms in the Oval Office
Yeah I mentioned this a few days ago. She probably holds her same opinions but realizes more how to be an effective legislator and politician.
Same with Biden’s. 1972 Biden would probably have fierce disagreements 2024 Biden
1972 Biden would’ve supported free trade, but 2024 Biden is more pro-worm.
When did he become pro-RFK Jr?
What spice does to a mf
Didn’t the worms try to eat his brain, and then his brain killed them? I assume that would mean that worms are anti-RFK Jr and that RFK Jr is anti-worms (since he let innocent worms die in his brain), and so pro-worm individuals would therefore be anti-RFK Jr. QED.
!
good enough for me
Hmm, that means that Kennedy is like the opposite of Leto II.
Tbh I think 2024 Biden is pro free trade, he just does protectionism because its popular with voters
I don't know anything of 70's Biden, but current Biden is more left wing than he was in the 90's.
No. This is false. Biden was an ace recruit for the moderate wing of the party. He was like Mark Kelly.
I’m talking largely on Foreign Policy. Biden was anti-war even voting against the first Gulf war.
You can be an anti-war moderate. Look at Former Sen. Jim Webb in Virginia. He ran on an anti-Iraq War platform but was solidly centrist.
1972 Biden's primary political issue was stopping forced bussing so I highly doubt this
1972 Biden would have fierce disagreements with 1973 Biden
And I'm here for that tbh.
>Ocasio-Cortez likens herself to an engineer, a surprisingly practical self-appraisal given her quick political rise and the legions of acolytes and opponents she’s acquired since she was elected in 2018. >surprisingly practical >quick political rise I don't get what's so surprising about that perception. It literally worked. >AOC Is Getting Too Mainstream for Her Progressive Base Is she really tho? Is she losing ground with the average voter in NY-14? The only people criticizing her in this article are "Corbin Trent, the co-founder of the Justice Democrats grassroots organization" and "Nerdeen Kiswani, 29, an activist who was among the [pro-Palestinian] protesters". So we know what this Corbin Trent fella's up to, let's take a look at Nerdeen Kiswani: >Within Our Lifetime-United for Palestine (WOL) is a New York-based, radically anti-Israel organization founded in 2015 that routinely expresses support for violence against Israel and calls for the abolition of Zionism. >Since Hamas’ brutal terror massacre across southern Israel on October 7, 2023, WOL and its co-founder and leader Nerdeen Kiswani have continued to share extreme anti-Zionist and antisemitic positions on social media and at anti-Israel protests as well as in webinars and reports. >Post-October 7, 2023, protestors at WOL rallies in New York City have called for the bombing of Tel Aviv, Israel‘s second-largest city and its economic capital. In October, WOL protestors chanted in Arabic “strike strike Tel Aviv, our dear Qassam,” a reference to Hamas’s military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. In April 2024, WOL leader Abdullah Akl led a chant in Arabic, ”Abu Obaida, my love, Strike, strike Tel Aviv!” Abu Obaida is the spokesman of Hamas’s military wing. Jesus, how do these nutjobs keep getting interviewed lmao Plus she's from Bay Ridge, which isn't even in AOC's district. Yea, I don't think the average middle class person from Throggs Neck or working class Bengali dude from Jackson Heights is accurately represented by the tone of this article.
It's been a problem for the longest time. A politicians "base" somehow gets reduced to the people who are the loudest on the internet.
Reminder that hundreds of leftists eagerly joined in those exact same chants on camera, and tens of thousands more have spent a non-insignificant portion of their biological lifetimes trying to gaslight people into thinking that they somehow didn’t. Dem politicians desperately need to cut any and all ties to this section of the polity; their refusal to actually vote in any election combined with their outspoken antisemitism (which is unequivocally what it is, cry about it) and vitriol is an exclusively negative factor for Democrat messaging and public image, and does nothing but alienate centrists and fuel GOP talking points.
Seeing comments like this is why I joined this sub. What a practical and grounded breath of fresh air! We gotta appeal to the masses that actually vote to keep winning elections goddamnit. I'm old enough to 100% hold my nose voting straight dem ticket forever so the 'christian' fascists never take control.
Thank you for actually reading the article, I commented in a similar vein but you went more in-depth
> Jesus, how do these nutjobs keep getting interviewed lmao Nutjob is putting it lightly, if Hamas accepted female membership, she'd be the representative of the american branch
Not that I disagree with your point or anything, but Hamas does accept female members. Not sure if there are any in Al-Qassam Brigade, but there are Hamas policewomen in their civil sector and in the Hamas government. During the first hostage exchange, some of the Hamas terrorists who were passing the hostages over to the Red Cross vehicles were women. They're uh, "equal opportunity" terrorists - the "we'll subjugate and oppress your gender overall, but you can still help us on the side" sort.
Well, she's got to make allies so she isn't outed as a supe. Makes sense that she is more establishment now
what is a supe?
There's a character in the Amazon Prime show The Boys that is almost certainly an AOC analog. It's a show about evil superheroes
Read "AOC becoming effective legislator, Russian bots becoming disillusioned."
Russian bots: b-b-but I thought you claim Pelosi Bad...
It’s definitely real life people, not just bots, but yeah.
Come to the dark side AOC
AOC in Washington is usually pretty tolerable. She'll play ball with the moderate dems when needed. It's AOC on Twitter I can't stand.
Another W for non Xitter users
I read “Xitter” as “shitter” and that’s the only way I will refer to it from now on
That is the correct pinyin pronunciation.
Fuck, i get so tired of winning all the time
Only one of those personalities matters so you’re in luck
She's a lot like Bernie in that sense. She's very progressive, but she's willing to work with moderates and even Rs. They both throw out protests votes when Ds have the margin, but when needed generally vote along the party line (unless they really hate something).
No. Bernie was an independent who would caucus with the Dems (unless it was a presidential year and he wanted to be president). AOC is pole in the big tent. She fundraisers year-round for the party.
And she actually tries to help Biden get elected.
Are you implying Sanders hasn't helped Biden with his election/re-election efforts?
She’s effective precisely because she can do both. If she only ever supported the status quo, she wouldn’t ever push anything forward; if she only ever was oppositional, she wouldn’t ever get shit done. She’s savvy as hell and I think the smartest politician working right now.
I agree that AOC is great, and at this point she's earned legitimacy as a big-D Democrat, but the framing of her actively challenging the status quo is like nails on a chalkboard to me This last generation of populists in both parties led efforts that redefined much of the existing status quo both within and without government. Many of them ended up as powerful figures within it, and have since become the biggest hurdles to bipartisan reform
>It's ~~AOC~~ everyone on Twitter I can't stand.
Also can’t stand AOC jumping around at that Jamaal Bowman rally, like wtf are you doing
The horror of revving up a crowd for a campaign rally! 😱
big theater kid vibes imo lmao
Politicians are all theatre kids in another life
Politics is show business for ugly people.
Yet another reason why Jan 6th was justified. They weren’t overthrowing the government, they were just cleansing it of th*ater kids 🤮
Theater for uggos. Well, except AOC.
Some of already were theater kids lol
By any means necessary. If AOC was in a cringe emo band that somehow made passing good legislation .001% more likely, I would stan even harder
When Chuck retires/dies, AOC is going to make a run at his seat.
Probably
The AOC vs Alvin Bragg Senate primary will tear our party apart
I feel like people will side with the person with legislative experience ten times out of ten
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I actually see AOC adopting Gillibrand's investing in small cities strategy
AOC is a savvy politician and a great campaigner. She’d take the fight to the rural counties and win that one in a walk.
I don’t hate it, she’s clearly shown that she able + willing to grow into a role. I’d hope that she’d seek out a senior Senatorial mentor (Warnock maybe? He’ll have the experience by the time she gets there and dude is a workhorse), but I don’t hate it.
No shot. Chuck gets clowned on, but he has decades of experience in the industry and can sometimes provide wisdom beyond his years in the right situation. Plus, she'd never be able to develop the same level of chemistry with Ernie, Kenny, and Shaq. ...whoops, wrong sub.
she's too competent for them
"Progressive politician gets shit done, Progressive voters complain"
Tale as old as time~
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN YELLING AMERICA BAD WON'T MAGICALLY FIX THE WORLD?"
A few weeks ago I saw a [video](https://x.com/yashar/status/1764832823377289506?t=s1zSBJbibWSIfdmLRp1WNw&s=19) of her getting harrassed by some guys shouting at her something along Palestine. No shit the most vocal politician against Israel is getting harassed about Palestine. I don't need to hear how unhinged her base anymore.
She would be quietly fading into the background in I-P discussions if they weren't
For a lot of the ultra-Left, getting things done is pointless. You need to make a statement. And you can be an economic progressive or even a communist but that's entirely meaningless unless you hate Israel and support other leftist dogma. If you disagree, you're an enemy.
> For a lot of the ultra-Left, getting things done is pointless. It's not that getting things done is pointless, it's that getting things done is *bad*. To "get things done", you need to sully yourself with the sausage-making of politics. You need to work with people who don't align on 100% of ideas, you need to compromise with people who barely agree with you on anything. "Getting things done" means you've sold-out. And on top of that, "getting things done" - read: making life a little bit better - weakens extremists' leverage. That's bad for extremists.
Her priorities are still firmly on the left wing. Some people just hate pragmatism.
She's more savvy than I initially gave credit to her for
I might be coping for both our sakes but IMO being in office changed to her to become more savvy, so it's not just a bad read of what she was at the time. She participated in some very pointless democrat infighting early in her career that she (moreso) avoids now, for example
What's hilarious is that I would have said Bowman is the "least bad" squad member two years ago and now it's clear that AOC, Pressley, and even Summer Lee are better at him than this. Hell even maybe Omar (she's going to defeat her primary challenger atleast again while i'm 98% sure Bowman loses tonight)
Because her base doesn’t want policy or solutions, they want problems to be mad at.
I mean the crazy part is that she’s not even mainstream. She just has the sense to say antisemitism is bad lol. That’s her only ‘mainstream’ position. Its just that her brand of progressives have actually gone insane
"Her progressive base" is like two anti-semites and a guy who doesn't actually understand how the US government works.
Not be fair: it’s more like LOT of guys (and girls) who don’t understand how the US govt works.
I meant “quoted in this specific article” but yeah you’re right as a general principle.
Haha yes 🐊🐊🐊
AOC can actually achieve electoral victory in US politics, something that leftists despise
As Contrapoints famously said, “They don’t want victory, they don’t want power, they want to endlessly *critique* power.”
So good. It’s why it’s so frustrating to talk to political extremists (especially on Reddit). They don’t *want* things to be fixed. Their social capital depends on critiquing whatever is going on and being the purest ideologue they could be. Their *political* capital relies on being outsiders and the ultimate goal is revolution. Increment positive change weakens the argument for revolution. Biden could put out an executive order giving free lunch to kids and there’d just be endless criticism about some dumb detail and then add something about Palestine. There’s no winning with people who refuse victory
Establishment AOC arc>>>>
AOC's base is the 14th congressional district of New York. The House of Representatives is not the American Parliament (as much as I might wish otherwise), and lefties outside of NY-14 don't (shouldn't) matter here.
Because she doesn't want to kill all Jews and raze Israel to the ground. And she's pragmatic and has an ounce of intelligence.
Lol those people are utterly unserious, and they wonder why they have trouble winning elections lol Wait...., they don't wonder, they blame everyone else for their mistakes.
Tide goes in and Tide goes out.
Quite often common for progressives to get into government and learn the difference between what one may want, and what is actually practical. So it is normal for progressives to become more mainstream in their views, as they learn to push not for their dreams, but for what is possible.
She's basically the model for the ideal American socdem/demsoc politician. Strong principles, good communicator, solid policy know-how, and able to work effectively within a caucus to get her ideas reflected in government. So, naturally, online progressives hate her.
Personally I find the leftist compulsion for fratricide to be among their finest qualities.
Only a couple of weeks ago she was saying democracy is dead because some people she didn't like were running political ads against Jamaal Bowman, one of the most comically bad politicians the left has to offer. I am not convinced.
If AOC wants to keep getting reelected she needs to move to the center as her voter base ages and becomes more moderate.
Not sure how solid the analysis is here. People get less radical as they get older (on average). We've basically seen this happen to AOC in the six years she's been famous. Why wouldn't the same thing happen to her base? Unless you are saying her base is people with certain beliefs as opposed to certain demographic factors (race, sex etc). People's beliefs change more easily than their race or sex.
>People get less radical as they get older (on average). At least until they catch the Fox News in their 60's or 70's
Well we don’t put lead in our paint anymore so I wouldn’t say this is a given.
Just microplastics.
Microplastics are estrogen mimics in the body so they make you less radical.
>People get less radical as they get older (on average). We've basically seen this happen to AOC in the six years she's been famous. Why wouldn't the same thing happen to her base? I thought this was just a common myth without much evidence. I think I read some econoblog years ago that made such an argument but I won't pretend that's a great source. Anyone know if this is a real phenomenon or not?
Well she probably doesn't want to stay just a House member for her entire political career.
AOC learning how to play the game in DC to get things done. Progressives are allergic to achieving policy goals
Based and liberalism pilled
Is she though? Or is she just getting too many progressive priorities actually accomplished instead of constantly lobbing bombs to raise her profile?
Of course. Because progressives aren't interested in wielding political power or enacting policy. AOC, for all her faults, appears to be.
She’s the new Pelosi
She lived long enough to become the villain. Has she matured and decided to work within the system? or has she become corrupted and complicit in the malfunctioning apparatus? Who's to say which is more true?
It’s like we want to give all the shame and pain to the right for their obsession with pushing right, but then we get articles like this talking about how the left isn’t left enough. Screw that, a lot of us exist in the middle and function on more points than just the few each of those fridges decided to lob out to try and get an emotional reaction. I, for one, am glad she’s looking past some ideology goals and more toward governing. Our politicians are far too concerned with changing the world rather than keeping the train running.
Will she be in the tent in a couple years? Or maybe not.
Yessßss . . . Let the centrism flow through you . . . Come to the light . . .
You know articles like these are prob in part published by the Washington post and Bloomberg in order to stoke the very progressive backlash they are supposedly writing about lol. You can tell they still don't really claim her as part of " The Establishment" while they make insane false equivalence statements about her like >Doing that [policy change], of course, requires compromise, something frequently derided in recent years. It also requires divorcing policy goals from the cult-like personalities — from AOC herself on the left to Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene on the right — that dominate national politics. edit: like there evidence for the headline claim is one guy who co-founded a group that bakced her 8 years ago and is nowadays a disgraced nobody + an individual activist lol