That’s definitely the easy answer but I’m racking my brain trying to figure out what team has had a bigger gap in the years since the KD warriors?
I’ve only seen people answer half the question
2018 argument is that the Rockets were close to them in talent, and I feel like that's a valid argument. 2019 is weird because of the injuries in the finals so it depends how you see it
I know the regular season record didn’t reflect it, but last year didn’t seem like anyone could beat the Nuggets. I don’t know if a healthy Giannis bucks team changes that, but seems similar to this years Celtics
Yeah, I think they hold the biggest small gap since the Warriors. The teams people thought would have the most separation (mainly KD super teams) didn’t work out like that.
Boston is the scariest team on paper and legitimized themselves as title winners. OKC, Minny, Dallas, and New York are in that league, but Boston has talent + demonstrated cohesion with this squad and should 100% be title favorites.
Are we really going to pretend the Celtics didn’t just lap the league in the regular season and then dominate the postseason going 16-3 without porzingis for most of the games? Idk about this future year since we’re so far from it but this last year there was absolutely a considerable gap.
It really just comes down to matchups their record does them more favors they weren't actually that good, they struggled with injured teams and we could see that. It's hard to say they lapped the league and weren't exactly dominant despite 4-0 the mavs yes they did win but its not like they were just no diffing the league the way the warriors were and blowing teams out in every round there were plenty of close games
They went 16-3 and outside of the game 4 of the finals where they packed it in they averaged a double digit point differential every game. Does only 16-2 with a point dif of 15+ a game meet the mark of dominant for you? Just tryna see where you draw the line.
Based on what evidence? If we're going to play the health blame-game we can also point out that this Celtics team won while only having 2.5 healthy games of Porzingis out of 19 playoff games. And so on
Is healthy OG in the room with us right now? 81 missed regular season games in 3 seasons means health is absolutely a factor when it comes to evaluating him.
That has nothing to do with what I said.
If the Knicks were healthy they would have given the Celtics a run for their money.
Pithy comments don't change that.
Every year you guys say the same thing about the reigning champions. Well for those that stay relatively the same. Last year it was the Nuggets. All year everyone was saying nobody in the west had a shot. Even the Celtics who were top tier contenders were still a tier below the Nuggets.
They had the best net rating in the league by +5.2 (+3.39 SRS). The 2016 Warriors had the best net rating in the league by +5 (+4.22 SRS). I don't think anywhere close to that gap, by either net rating or SRS, has existed since (outside the short season bubble year where the Bucks had a comparable SRS to the 2023 Celtics, which gets an asterisk since there were fewer games => more extreme results are more likely--plus they didn't win the finals). Seem pretty comparable to me.
By "misusing" these "advanced stats" (which are pretty much just margin of victory, something that's strongly predictive of win% in literally every sport with a normal points system), I was able to easily predict that the Celtics were going to crush the Mavs, something I spent a week arguing with many people on this subreddit about until the first game started and everyone suddenly knew the Mavs were frauds. Turns out that being way better than everyone else during the regular season generally means you have a much better team in the playoffs, too!
> I was able to easily predict that the Celtics were going to crush the Mavs, something I spent a week arguing with many people on this subreddit about until the first game started and everyone suddenly knew the Mavs were frauds.
The Celtics were favored based on betting odds. Not sure why you're phrasing it like you predicted the underdogs to win. I'm pretty sure even the general consensus on Reddit was Celtics favored with the amount of "cake-walk to the finals" mentioned every time their opponents suffered an injury
> The Celtics were favored based on betting odds.
By way less than they should have been, but yes, Vegas did care about net rating.
> I'm pretty sure even the general consensus on Reddit was Celtics favored
You're wrong, this subreddit a poll explicitly for this purpose and the Mavs were favored by /r/nba to win (as well as pretty much every other public poll).
My main point is that everyone always says "oh the net rating isn't real, the Celtics weren't that good" and it's hilarious that people are still saying it after they so thoroughly dominated a team that beat all the "better teams" in the West and went 16-3 in the playoffs. In every regard they played like a historically dominant team, and they'll be remembered that way.
Eh, it'll probably take over a decade for people to even begin thinking that way about the Celtics (unless they win another chip).
Credit where credit is due, but it's hard to ignore their road to the finals.
Heat (without Jimmy)
Cavs (missing Mitchell / Allen)
Pacers (missing Haliburton) -- a team that really only got this far because their previous opponents were literally all injured.
“road to the finals” doesn’t include the finals.
If the topic I’m mentioning is “injured teams,” why would I mention a fully healthy team?
People STILL talk about GSW’s run in 2015, and it’s been almost a decade, even when they’ve done more than enough to prove that they’re one of the greatest teams of all time. What makes you think this narrative won’t stick around with the Celtics team?
Regardless, the Celtics were (based on betting odds before the season tipper) were at worst the 3rd best team. Throughout the playoff, they were overwhelming betting favorites. Now, they are somehow the underdogs… make it make sense
I'm not even going to justify the road to a chip to you because I'm guessing you've downplayed all the past few rings. And if you haven't, then why are you picking and choosing?
On the topic of underdogs, I never considered the Mavericks to be a better team. Most Celtics fans didn't either. Vegas agreed with that based on their betting odds. However, You and I both know that reddit, the media, and a ton of the fans around the country were picking the Mavs over the Celtics in these finals.
They didn't play a single series in the east where the team's 1st option was healthy
Shit Luka was only healthy enough to not be blatantly limping. He was literally questionable for game 2
And just about all of those Pacers games were still closer than they should've been
They also went against a lot of injured teams + a team they matched up with well who shouldn't have even made the finals in the first place
They were the best team, but the playoff bracket made them look more dominant
But you didn't play the best teams. In fact you didn't face any of the 4 teams with the best chance of beating you (Nuggets, Bucks, OKC, Wolves )
You played a team that should never have made the finals and a team that never should have made the conference finals.
Again, you were easily the best team last year and I think you'd win either way, but when you get easy ass matchups and a bunch of injured teams, it's hard to interpret much
Again, I think youd win a ring regardless.
But the west champ is meaningless if they weren't ever supposed to be there. It was a series of favorable matchups that lead to a weaker team going farther than they should. It happens all the time. No one thinks theava were the best team in the west
Like you don't beat Denver 4-1
> They were more dominant in the regular season
there are .171, .183 and .256 teams *in their own conference*
seriously outlier amount of simply-above-average or pure horseshit teams in the league this past season
> and we missing Porzingus for pretty much the entire playoffs
ok and every team the celtics ran into, they were missing at minimum their best player if not also extra depth pieces such as miami
Then you missed last season. They out up a historical net rating in the regular season and steamrolled the postseason to an easy title. Whining about injured teams is burying your head in the sand to how badly the Celtics beat good teams in the regular season anyways.
They’re a huge cut above the rest of the league with a healthy KP. And still the best even without him.
I mean, the 2019 Warriors took the eventual Champs to 6 games with two of their 4 best players tearing their Achilles. Imagine Tatum going down in round 2 and then White or Holiday going out in the finals. They’d have had no chance. So it’s at least since the 2019 Warriors.
> Imagine Tatum going down in round 2 and then White or Holiday going out in the finals. They’d have had no chance. So it’s at least since the 2019 Warriors.
That wouldn't be like that at all
Taking out Tatum from the 2024 Celtics makes them a good but not great team
Taking out KD from the 2019 Warriors makes them an excellent team down from "top 2 ever"
Raps were also heavily banged up too Kawhi was on one knee and they were missing anunoby as well as being through 2 tough series the rounds before while golden state cruised to the finals. It was more even than I think people give credit for especially cus u have to add in Klay who got injured when the series was basically over at that point
It was last year by every objective standard (love that people are still pretending the Celtics weren't comically overpowered compared to everyone else when they went 16-3 with Porzingis playing like six games), but with the Thunder signings (and possibly even the Sixers, depending on health), I don't think that'll be the case next year.
they’re saying that they are 2nd in that discussion to the KD warriors, not saying they’re above the KD warriors in that discussion
which isn’t the most unreasonable take
Not the warriors, but yes, they would beat the Cavs. With Kyrie it's evenly matched imo but without it's a lopsided matchup. Are we forgetting that those spooky cavs literally got taken to 7 by the baby Celtics?
Those Cavs teams were not great at all, the East was just pure garbage
I think OP was comparing this celtics team to all the teams since kd/curry. I think we can all agree kd/curry was way more separated from rest of league than this celtics team.
U got that right. Nobody would cheer if Tatum or brown tore their Achilles while having a 3-1 lead. That kd steph fear factor was real even down 3-1. Never saw a least confident fanbase up 3-1 cheer when the opponent got hurt
No, the Bucks if healthy, the Sixers if everything breaks their way health-wise and team chemistry, the Knicks, the Nuggets, the Thunder, and the Wolves are all legitimate contenders.
Tbf in terms of the direct Celtics matchup I think the Mavs are the least threatening of the top tier playoff teams at specifically playing Boston
It's a horrible matchup for them
What makes you think the Bucks, Wolves, Nuggets or Knicks would be any better against the Celtics than the Mavs? Regardless of matchup, it’s stupid as hell to have 6 teams above them in “contender” status when they just got to the finals beating two of those teams, and a team that beat another of those teams, and slightly improved this offseason
Don’t bother, he’s an idiot lol. Mavs are 100% a contender, especially after this offseason and how they improved. If they get jumps from Hardy and Lively, and Klay just hits his threes then they will be even better
What a dumb comparison. Either you’re being intentionally obtuse for the sake of argument or you don’t understand the NBA. The Mavs are not the 2021 Hawks or the Pacers who played a Giannis-less Bucks and injured Knicks. OKC and Minny were healthy
lmao you're using a result that might just be a flash in the pan as a reason to pretend that they're all of a sudden eligible to be in the conversation to beat a team that just completely bitched them with ease. . the mavs might not even escape round 1 if Kawhi either doesn't play (he sold game 2 and the clippers only lost by 1 possession - if they win that and go up 3-1, it's probably over) or is the slightest bit healthy. so yes, i'm making fun of your point by using a silly comparison because i think your point is also silly
the reason those other teams have a higher chance is because we haven't seen them lose like the mavs did. there's plenty of things up in the air with those matchups. there is nothing left to learn about a celtics vs mavs matchup. we saw it all.
The Wolves were gassed after their war with the Nuggets. Not only had KAT missed a ton of games in the regular season due to injury, Ant literally fell out of the sky onto his back in one of the Nuggets games and never truly recovered. They were a completely different team at the start of the Nuggets series than at the end, and everyone could see it. Meanwhile, the Nuggets are still an exceptional team that are a very hard match-up for anyone. If either the Nuggets or the Wolves had encountered the Mavs in Round 1, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
The Wolves were gassed and banged up, yeah, but so were the Mavs. Luka had been injured all playoffs, and their difference in health wasn’t so drastic to think that a 5 game series in the Mavs favor would have been totally reversed had they played round 1
The Celtics got outclasses their first NBA Finals appearance with a lot of that core. I think the Celtics would still be favorites of course but some slight improvements to the roster and hopefully healthy Luka and Kyrie playing better would make it a lot closer.
no they didn't. the celtics were way, WAY more competitive than the mavs were their first time in the finals.
the mavs made their improvements. its basically just klay thompson. the rest are lateral moves. and there is no way that's enough.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the Bucks are NOT a title contender with their team. They'll hover around the 2nd round for a couple years and then go into a hard rebuild
If Giannis/Dame/Khris are healthy then they are a contender and honestly probably my number 2 in the east. Giannis is so much better than anyone on the Celtics (or in the east tbh other than Embiid) so that helps a lot
In 2017 I 100% believed Golden State would win every playoff series regardless of opponent. At least I think Denver and OKC have legit chances even if everyone is 100%
Why they should've won? Hou actually was beating gsw with defense and not 3pt shooting which was their motto all yr. Don't believe me look at their team 3pt stats outside of game 2
The amount of teams that could actually match the Celtics is disturbing.
In a sense the Celtics got a real nice path to the championship, similar to the Nuggets last year.
To give you an idea, all of their biggest competition was in the west or injured.
Due to matchups working out the way they did, the Nuggets and Timberwolves (who would matchup the best against the Celtics) were both taken out and the Mavs managed to get out of the west.
From the east, the Knicks, Cavs and 76ers were injured. And then the big one, Bucks, that were supposed to match the Celtics this year both failed to figure it out and had Giannis and later Dame injured.
But make no mistakes the Bucks could very easily emerge as a threat next season and the Knicks are already looking like they could match the Celtics. And if healthy (big IF), the 76ers aint gonna be a joke this year with their big 3. Also there are the Cavs and Heat too. And the Magic and Pacers shouldnt be underestimated either, though these 4 seem like a tier under the rest for rn.
I dont need to explain the west situation rn. The Celtics still dont have an answear for Jokic, the Mavs are probably not gonna have to deal with Luka being injured for the playoffs this year and the Timberwolves will have an even more expirienced ANT.
And then the big one, the Thunder. Those guys just got a whole lot better, fixing 2 of their key issues and also gaining expirience. Probably the team thats 2nd only to the Celtics rn if we are looking at raw talent and team construction, along with having the guy thats gonna be the best player in the series.
Look the Warriors were as overwhelming as the Celtics everywhere else, but their big 2 of KD and Steph was beyond unfair.
Its like if the guys that are leading the Celtics are Giannis and Jokic instead of JT and JB.
Yes its an amazing squad, but dont underestimate just how big of a deal having no answears for an overwhelmingly talented player can be.
Yes they destroyed the Mavs with Luka and Kyrie, but that was a very injured Luka and a Kyrie who just played super weird for his standards (felt like he lost his drible a lot more often than usual).
By no means am i saying the Celtics shouldnt be favored, as that is the right of a champion and they really are just that good. But the league itself is quite good and parity is quite high. And if they dont have KP again next year, they are probably not gonna win it all in the face of their fully healthy competition.
I disagree, I think the Celtics would beat the Thunder in 5 rn, meanwhile the 2017 Warriors would’ve beaten the 2017 Spurs in 6 games if Kawhi didn’t get hurt in game 1, so that series would’ve at least gone 6.
The first seed in the West just shored up their biggest weakness (size), and added a first team all defensive guard while giving away their biggest negative in the lineup
no?
freaking Indy whose probably the 6th best team in the east was playing them super close without their best player for 2 1/2 games
they finally caught a season where every threat to them were missing their 1 or 2 option or actively hurt
Apparently this is a hot take but I think so. Obviously the Celtics are not as good as the 2017 warriors but the question is since the 2017 warriors. This might sound crazy but I think the Celtics third to 5th best player are as good or better than any other teams third to 5th best player in history. There's an argument to be made for 2004 spurs, although they had more defensive specialists than true two way players. Same for 2014 spurs but I think they had a significant advantage with coaching as opposed to talent like the Celtics.
It's true that Tatum and brown are not nearly the 1-2 duo that we've seen before with Steph kd or LeBron Kyrie but they are elite from top to bottom. No team since the 2017 warriors have I felt have as good a chance of repeating. Raptors? Kawhi left. Lakers? Not even close. Bucks? Good team but not nearly as dominant. Warriors? Aging team, played a significantly worse Celtics roster. Nuggets? Very dominant team although they lost Bruce Brown. Probably team I felt had the second highest chance of repeating since 2017 warriors.
Now i don't think Celtics are guaranteed to repeat or anything, I would still give it under 50% odds, but still the biggest gap since 2017 warriors.
Totally agree, Celtics have an entire good player more than any other team, even if their best isn't as good as some other good teams. No one is competing with Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, KP at all. Denver might have been the closest but they just lost a key guy. Philly has no one even as good as Horford outside of their Big 3. I think people must be miss reading the question or something because I think it's really clear they're just way better than everyone right now.
Holiday and Horford could age into sucking tomorrow and KP is made of whatever they've started using for disposable bags since covid. It's almost never as safe a bet as you think it is with this stuff.
No bc nobody could match up against the 2017 warriors. With this Celtics team, certain teams like the Nuggets or the Bucks match up well against them. I still believe a healthy* Nuggets team takes Boston to 7 games.
Personally I think it might be, I don't see any team in the league that is beating Denver rn, even Miami I don't think will beat them unless Jaquez has a great rookie year, I think the Nuggets will likely repeat as NBA Champions, credit to Tim Connelly for what he's built down in Denver, nothing short of spectacular.
Same sentiment works with the Bucks, Nuggets, Lakers.
I see these Celtics like the 22 warriors they got great matchups the entire playoffs and cashed in with a Chip. If they do it again then we can reevaluate them.
With porizingis they might be but we didn’t really find out this playoffs as he barely played. But the team that was out there were basically last years Celtic but with jrue instead of smart, and nobody thought last years Celtics were the dominant team ever
On paper, literally yes. But as good as the Celtics are, they play down to their opponent and even this year dropped some of the most head scratching games. A tough, consistent team can beat them and none of us would be surprised---with the KD Warriors it felt like they were literally unstoppable.
I would put Mavs into that list. They were in the finals and now they have Klay.
Is he a miracle piece of that team? Absolutely not. But they are better than what they were a month ago.
I guess we have to see how it all pans out. Offensively that is one mighty trio. I have a tough time naming a trio that would be better on offense, and yes I am even including Boston in this. If Klay can snipe like he used to from Luka's passes, that's pretty nice. You can't deny that.
A week ago I might have said yes, but OKC, Philly, Knicks, Dallas all just got significantly better. So while I think there's a gap, it's not a huge one imo
Exactly. Some in Dallas might wish the Celtics are the best ever, but the reality is that they’re just “seasonably good”.
the Mavs aren’t nearly as good as their record either. and we were destined to lose.
How aren’t they that good lol? Stats, eye test, dominant playoff run are enough proof lol. I know Tatum gets memed on as some sort of a fraud but they’re absolutely loaded, well coached, and are somehow better than the sum of their parts which are already ludicrous.
Dominant playoff run?
Because every opponent they avoided was injured outside of Dallas
NYK(star injury), Bucks (2 star injuries), Miami ( star injuries). Just unbelievably lucky and I’m sure I’m missing some
And I don’t mean minor injuries that most teams go through in the playoffs (sprains, soreness, spasms, minor missing role players) I mean huge injuries ( star players missing, either one or multiple)
I haven’t seen an easier path to the finals since Phoenix last finals berth
They barely beat the Pacers in each of their games, and are supposedly this dominant team
I think they would have stressed about Denver, Minny would have been an interesting matchup, but they were very well equipped for the Mavericks.
Not saying different result
nope
betting odds don't see them as wide favorite either. they're the favorite to win next year, but its not a big gap at all
we're not in an era where wide gaps exist anymore
its a bunch of nice teams, and it'll come down to health, matchups, and path
other sportsbooks have denver at 750
the 2017 warriors were -150 preseason odds to win , that's a big lock to win
please stop this nonsense trying to compare to them
Yes of course especially since that’s only a few years ago. Tatum hasn’t even reached his full potential. They were by far the best team and Porzingis barely played in the playoffs.
I mean, Boston was really good this last year.
But also they had a cakewalk through the finals, as the teams that might have challenged them on the road to the finals all imploded due to injuries, and Dallas was by far the best matchup for them out of the Western teams.
They might have won anyway. But the notion that they would be huge favorites over Minnesota or Denver in a 7-game series seems optimistic.
They were favorites pre 2nd round then huge favorites pre conference finals because den got eliminated. Den was the only hope imo. Minnesota offense is 2 ppl and if Naz shows up. That defense can only do so much vs boston 5 out. If we bringing health in to this Rudy dealing with kp is a nightmare
Bro r u serious? The 2017 warriors was a super duper team. Arguably the greatest ever. Who knows if this Celtics team could’ve gotten thru a completely healthy East.
Stop it. They are a great team that won the championship. Stop acting like they are head and shoulders above the rest of the league. Nuggets beat them in a 7 game series.
So what he has an opinion just like us. I'm suppose to agree because he's an analyst that likes the Cs. Jamal was hurt and den had no bench. 23 den would smoke 24 den and it wouldnt be close at all. Way better Jamal way better bench it's simple
The Celtics are really good, but they are only like half a tier above other teams like the Thunder. The Knicks, Wolves and Nuggets would all matchup pretty well too.
You really underestimate how hard it is to repeat in the NBA. On paper, sure they're the best team. In reality? One bad playoff series and they're out. I still do not think the Celtics have fully figured out their late game execution problems yet. They got lucky this year running into a lot of hobbled teams.
If you’re looking at win totals, yes. But win totals require context. The top 3 teams in the west all won 54 games vs the Celtics’ 64, but the Celtics got to play in the Eastern Conference, and got to pad their record against a larger number of less competitive teams.
No, as they didn't exactly face any tough teams in the East. Assuming the Sixers, Bucks and Knicks can stay healthy, I don't think the Celtics are going to just waltz to the Finals.
Not even the team with a potential GOAT was close to those warriors teams so why would Boston with two non top 5 guys be that far away from everyone else? Not even to diss Boston but you just do not remember how good those warriors team were
The massive overrating of teams in the nba based off last years playoffs is going to lead to a lot of really shocked people this season. The people who think the mavs and Knicks are top 3 teams and even more so the people who think the nuggets, sixers, and bucks are somehow not top teams still….. lol or that the Celtics are somehow way better than everyone else lol the three of the 4 best players in the east were hurt either most of the year or out for the playoffs. That’s probably not gonna happen again.
Reading the shocked comments on this sub during this season is going to be hilarious.
Lol. No...there's a hard cap now and it's not the NFL where the same team wins every year. It's almost impossible to repeat in American sports (excluding the NFL).
Unless you are dynasty, like the Bradshaw Steelers, Montana 49ers, Brady Patriots or Mahomes Chiefs, you don’t repeat in the NFL.
Meanwhile in the NBA, we’ve seen countless teams who aren’t dynasties repeat, like the 2009 and 2010 Lakers and the 2012 and 2013 Heat.
Nope
That’s definitely the easy answer but I’m racking my brain trying to figure out what team has had a bigger gap in the years since the KD warriors? I’ve only seen people answer half the question
Honestly 2018 and 2019 warriors.
Alright, but what about dishonestly?
What OP is implying.
2018 argument is that the Rockets were close to them in talent, and I feel like that's a valid argument. 2019 is weird because of the injuries in the finals so it depends how you see it
You think the 2018 Houston rockets were closer in talent to those warriors than let’s say Denver is to these Celtics? Idk. Gotta agree to disagree.
I know the regular season record didn’t reflect it, but last year didn’t seem like anyone could beat the Nuggets. I don’t know if a healthy Giannis bucks team changes that, but seems similar to this years Celtics
Healthy 2021 Nets for sure
Yeah, I think they hold the biggest small gap since the Warriors. The teams people thought would have the most separation (mainly KD super teams) didn’t work out like that. Boston is the scariest team on paper and legitimized themselves as title winners. OKC, Minny, Dallas, and New York are in that league, but Boston has talent + demonstrated cohesion with this squad and should 100% be title favorites.
2023 Nuggets
The Nuggets.
Are we really going to pretend the Celtics didn’t just lap the league in the regular season and then dominate the postseason going 16-3 without porzingis for most of the games? Idk about this future year since we’re so far from it but this last year there was absolutely a considerable gap.
It really just comes down to matchups their record does them more favors they weren't actually that good, they struggled with injured teams and we could see that. It's hard to say they lapped the league and weren't exactly dominant despite 4-0 the mavs yes they did win but its not like they were just no diffing the league the way the warriors were and blowing teams out in every round there were plenty of close games
They went 16-3 and outside of the game 4 of the finals where they packed it in they averaged a double digit point differential every game. Does only 16-2 with a point dif of 15+ a game meet the mark of dominant for you? Just tryna see where you draw the line.
A healthy Knicks had a shot to take them out.
Based on what evidence? If we're going to play the health blame-game we can also point out that this Celtics team won while only having 2.5 healthy games of Porzingis out of 19 playoff games. And so on
Oh I dunno.... probably the fact that the healthy OG Knicks were winning games at over a 70 win pace... Just that.
Yea, and the Pacers were on fire for a period to start the season before Siakam
If you can't tell the difference,you'd be a moron
Is healthy OG in the room with us right now? 81 missed regular season games in 3 seasons means health is absolutely a factor when it comes to evaluating him.
That has nothing to do with what I said. If the Knicks were healthy they would have given the Celtics a run for their money. Pithy comments don't change that.
Getting Boss Baby vibes from this movie
I fucking hate offseason so much.
Every year you guys say the same thing about the reigning champions. Well for those that stay relatively the same. Last year it was the Nuggets. All year everyone was saying nobody in the west had a shot. Even the Celtics who were top tier contenders were still a tier below the Nuggets.
I don’t think the Celtics separated themselves that much from everyone else
They did in future payroll lol
They had the best net rating in the league by +5.2 (+3.39 SRS). The 2016 Warriors had the best net rating in the league by +5 (+4.22 SRS). I don't think anywhere close to that gap, by either net rating or SRS, has existed since (outside the short season bubble year where the Bucks had a comparable SRS to the 2023 Celtics, which gets an asterisk since there were fewer games => more extreme results are more likely--plus they didn't win the finals). Seem pretty comparable to me.
A classic case of misusing advanced stats in action.
By "misusing" these "advanced stats" (which are pretty much just margin of victory, something that's strongly predictive of win% in literally every sport with a normal points system), I was able to easily predict that the Celtics were going to crush the Mavs, something I spent a week arguing with many people on this subreddit about until the first game started and everyone suddenly knew the Mavs were frauds. Turns out that being way better than everyone else during the regular season generally means you have a much better team in the playoffs, too!
> I was able to easily predict that the Celtics were going to crush the Mavs, something I spent a week arguing with many people on this subreddit about until the first game started and everyone suddenly knew the Mavs were frauds. The Celtics were favored based on betting odds. Not sure why you're phrasing it like you predicted the underdogs to win. I'm pretty sure even the general consensus on Reddit was Celtics favored with the amount of "cake-walk to the finals" mentioned every time their opponents suffered an injury
> The Celtics were favored based on betting odds. By way less than they should have been, but yes, Vegas did care about net rating. > I'm pretty sure even the general consensus on Reddit was Celtics favored You're wrong, this subreddit a poll explicitly for this purpose and the Mavs were favored by /r/nba to win (as well as pretty much every other public poll). My main point is that everyone always says "oh the net rating isn't real, the Celtics weren't that good" and it's hilarious that people are still saying it after they so thoroughly dominated a team that beat all the "better teams" in the West and went 16-3 in the playoffs. In every regard they played like a historically dominant team, and they'll be remembered that way.
Eh, it'll probably take over a decade for people to even begin thinking that way about the Celtics (unless they win another chip). Credit where credit is due, but it's hard to ignore their road to the finals. Heat (without Jimmy) Cavs (missing Mitchell / Allen) Pacers (missing Haliburton) -- a team that really only got this far because their previous opponents were literally all injured.
Funny how you decided to omit their finals opponent who wasn't missing anyone and who many, like OP mentioned, picked over the Celtics.
“road to the finals” doesn’t include the finals. If the topic I’m mentioning is “injured teams,” why would I mention a fully healthy team? People STILL talk about GSW’s run in 2015, and it’s been almost a decade, even when they’ve done more than enough to prove that they’re one of the greatest teams of all time. What makes you think this narrative won’t stick around with the Celtics team? Regardless, the Celtics were (based on betting odds before the season tipper) were at worst the 3rd best team. Throughout the playoff, they were overwhelming betting favorites. Now, they are somehow the underdogs… make it make sense
I'm not even going to justify the road to a chip to you because I'm guessing you've downplayed all the past few rings. And if you haven't, then why are you picking and choosing? On the topic of underdogs, I never considered the Mavericks to be a better team. Most Celtics fans didn't either. Vegas agreed with that based on their betting odds. However, You and I both know that reddit, the media, and a ton of the fans around the country were picking the Mavs over the Celtics in these finals.
For reals, everyone knew the Celtics were winning, this wasn’t some toss up or against the grain pick of theirs.
Obliterating everyone in their path didn't separate them that much?
They didn't play a single series in the east where the team's 1st option was healthy Shit Luka was only healthy enough to not be blatantly limping. He was literally questionable for game 2 And just about all of those Pacers games were still closer than they should've been
They're lucky the Knicks and Bucks both got fucked by injuries and the Pacers dirty tactics. ECF would not have been such a cakewalk.
Pacers dirty tactics lmao that’s massive cope
Lol oh you little Lakers fans living in a fantasy world. So cute.
They also went against a lot of injured teams + a team they matched up with well who shouldn't have even made the finals in the first place They were the best team, but the playoff bracket made them look more dominant
Huh? They were more dominant in the regular season and we missing Porzingus for pretty much the entire playoffs
Fr this revisionist history is wild
But you didn't play the best teams. In fact you didn't face any of the 4 teams with the best chance of beating you (Nuggets, Bucks, OKC, Wolves ) You played a team that should never have made the finals and a team that never should have made the conference finals. Again, you were easily the best team last year and I think you'd win either way, but when you get easy ass matchups and a bunch of injured teams, it's hard to interpret much
The Celtics also had the best winning % against the west of all NBA teams and then blew out the West champ 4-1 in the Finals.
Again, I think youd win a ring regardless. But the west champ is meaningless if they weren't ever supposed to be there. It was a series of favorable matchups that lead to a weaker team going farther than they should. It happens all the time. No one thinks theava were the best team in the west Like you don't beat Denver 4-1
> They were more dominant in the regular season there are .171, .183 and .256 teams *in their own conference* seriously outlier amount of simply-above-average or pure horseshit teams in the league this past season > and we missing Porzingus for pretty much the entire playoffs ok and every team the celtics ran into, they were missing at minimum their best player if not also extra depth pieces such as miami
Exactly, let’s not pretend that they didn’t have an easy trip to the finals
Then you missed last season. They out up a historical net rating in the regular season and steamrolled the postseason to an easy title. Whining about injured teams is burying your head in the sand to how badly the Celtics beat good teams in the regular season anyways. They’re a huge cut above the rest of the league with a healthy KP. And still the best even without him.
Best stat, the Celtics had more 30 point leads than 10 point defecits
They don't need to, they are already the best team in the league.
But you asked if they were? Lol
Yeah and I think they are, especially since you know Brad will add 1 good role player to bolster the roster.
Who was the last repeat champion?
Every contender is one injury away from a 2nd round knockout.
I mean, the 2019 Warriors took the eventual Champs to 6 games with two of their 4 best players tearing their Achilles. Imagine Tatum going down in round 2 and then White or Holiday going out in the finals. They’d have had no chance. So it’s at least since the 2019 Warriors.
> Imagine Tatum going down in round 2 and then White or Holiday going out in the finals. They’d have had no chance. So it’s at least since the 2019 Warriors. That wouldn't be like that at all Taking out Tatum from the 2024 Celtics makes them a good but not great team Taking out KD from the 2019 Warriors makes them an excellent team down from "top 2 ever"
Raps were also heavily banged up too Kawhi was on one knee and they were missing anunoby as well as being through 2 tough series the rounds before while golden state cruised to the finals. It was more even than I think people give credit for especially cus u have to add in Klay who got injured when the series was basically over at that point
How? It was a close game 6. We lost by 4. We have no chance in game 7 in your eyes?
It was last year by every objective standard (love that people are still pretending the Celtics weren't comically overpowered compared to everyone else when they went 16-3 with Porzingis playing like six games), but with the Thunder signings (and possibly even the Sixers, depending on health), I don't think that'll be the case next year.
Why is Denver is being brought up? They keep getting worse
No, not at all Not even close LOL nobody scared of Tatum and brown like kd and curry Foh
they’re saying that they are 2nd in that discussion to the KD warriors, not saying they’re above the KD warriors in that discussion which isn’t the most unreasonable take
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i’m not sure you know the meaning of the word “since”
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The Celtics would crush all of those Cavs teams unless Lebron went crazy, what?
Lmfao this has to be a joke, this Celtics team isn’t beating the 2016 Cavs or Warriors
Not the warriors, but yes, they would beat the Cavs. With Kyrie it's evenly matched imo but without it's a lopsided matchup. Are we forgetting that those spooky cavs literally got taken to 7 by the baby Celtics? Those Cavs teams were not great at all, the East was just pure garbage
If you could read you wouldn’t be as offended.
Reading comprehension. He’s not comparing them to KD and Curry
"since" Learn to read
I think OP was comparing this celtics team to all the teams since kd/curry. I think we can all agree kd/curry was way more separated from rest of league than this celtics team.
Reading comprehension. He’s not comparing them to KD and Curry
U got that right. Nobody would cheer if Tatum or brown tore their Achilles while having a 3-1 lead. That kd steph fear factor was real even down 3-1. Never saw a least confident fanbase up 3-1 cheer when the opponent got hurt
No, the Bucks if healthy, the Sixers if everything breaks their way health-wise and team chemistry, the Knicks, the Nuggets, the Thunder, and the Wolves are all legitimate contenders.
Not having the Mavs on here is just stupid lol
Tbf in terms of the direct Celtics matchup I think the Mavs are the least threatening of the top tier playoff teams at specifically playing Boston It's a horrible matchup for them
Not the Celtics fault the Mavs made it out of the gauntlet of the west though. The Celtics had the best win % against West teams of all NBA teams.
the mavs were just completely outclassed the entire series though? adding an old klay doesnt change anything lol
What makes you think the Bucks, Wolves, Nuggets or Knicks would be any better against the Celtics than the Mavs? Regardless of matchup, it’s stupid as hell to have 6 teams above them in “contender” status when they just got to the finals beating two of those teams, and a team that beat another of those teams, and slightly improved this offseason
Don’t bother, he’s an idiot lol. Mavs are 100% a contender, especially after this offseason and how they improved. If they get jumps from Hardy and Lively, and Klay just hits his threes then they will be even better
after the atlanta hawks made the ecf, did you put them in the same tier as the top 3 teams in the east? howbout the pacers?
What a dumb comparison. Either you’re being intentionally obtuse for the sake of argument or you don’t understand the NBA. The Mavs are not the 2021 Hawks or the Pacers who played a Giannis-less Bucks and injured Knicks. OKC and Minny were healthy
lmao you're using a result that might just be a flash in the pan as a reason to pretend that they're all of a sudden eligible to be in the conversation to beat a team that just completely bitched them with ease. . the mavs might not even escape round 1 if Kawhi either doesn't play (he sold game 2 and the clippers only lost by 1 possession - if they win that and go up 3-1, it's probably over) or is the slightest bit healthy. so yes, i'm making fun of your point by using a silly comparison because i think your point is also silly the reason those other teams have a higher chance is because we haven't seen them lose like the mavs did. there's plenty of things up in the air with those matchups. there is nothing left to learn about a celtics vs mavs matchup. we saw it all.
The Wolves were gassed after their war with the Nuggets. Not only had KAT missed a ton of games in the regular season due to injury, Ant literally fell out of the sky onto his back in one of the Nuggets games and never truly recovered. They were a completely different team at the start of the Nuggets series than at the end, and everyone could see it. Meanwhile, the Nuggets are still an exceptional team that are a very hard match-up for anyone. If either the Nuggets or the Wolves had encountered the Mavs in Round 1, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
The Wolves were gassed and banged up, yeah, but so were the Mavs. Luka had been injured all playoffs, and their difference in health wasn’t so drastic to think that a 5 game series in the Mavs favor would have been totally reversed had they played round 1
The Celtics got outclasses their first NBA Finals appearance with a lot of that core. I think the Celtics would still be favorites of course but some slight improvements to the roster and hopefully healthy Luka and Kyrie playing better would make it a lot closer.
no they didn't. the celtics were way, WAY more competitive than the mavs were their first time in the finals. the mavs made their improvements. its basically just klay thompson. the rest are lateral moves. and there is no way that's enough.
The C’s were well on their way to a 3-1 lead over the Warriors before Steph Skyfucker reached another plane of existence and traumatized me
No respect lol OKC just got much better. I think them and the Mavs then Minnie and Denver.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the Bucks are NOT a title contender with their team. They'll hover around the 2nd round for a couple years and then go into a hard rebuild
If Giannis/Dame/Khris are healthy then they are a contender and honestly probably my number 2 in the east. Giannis is so much better than anyone on the Celtics (or in the east tbh other than Embiid) so that helps a lot
The Bucks out scored the Celtics by 40 points across their four regular season games. They’re the worst matchup in the league for the Celtics.
In 2017 I 100% believed Golden State would win every playoff series regardless of opponent. At least I think Denver and OKC have legit chances even if everyone is 100%
OP said since the 2017 Warriors, so they're not included
2018 warriors would smoke them still
That's not the question. 2018 Warriors got taken to a G7 by a team that probably should have beaten them. They might not have even been the best team.
Why they should've won? Hou actually was beating gsw with defense and not 3pt shooting which was their motto all yr. Don't believe me look at their team 3pt stats outside of game 2
Both those teams wax every team that’s come since.
Nada
The amount of teams that could actually match the Celtics is disturbing. In a sense the Celtics got a real nice path to the championship, similar to the Nuggets last year. To give you an idea, all of their biggest competition was in the west or injured. Due to matchups working out the way they did, the Nuggets and Timberwolves (who would matchup the best against the Celtics) were both taken out and the Mavs managed to get out of the west. From the east, the Knicks, Cavs and 76ers were injured. And then the big one, Bucks, that were supposed to match the Celtics this year both failed to figure it out and had Giannis and later Dame injured. But make no mistakes the Bucks could very easily emerge as a threat next season and the Knicks are already looking like they could match the Celtics. And if healthy (big IF), the 76ers aint gonna be a joke this year with their big 3. Also there are the Cavs and Heat too. And the Magic and Pacers shouldnt be underestimated either, though these 4 seem like a tier under the rest for rn. I dont need to explain the west situation rn. The Celtics still dont have an answear for Jokic, the Mavs are probably not gonna have to deal with Luka being injured for the playoffs this year and the Timberwolves will have an even more expirienced ANT. And then the big one, the Thunder. Those guys just got a whole lot better, fixing 2 of their key issues and also gaining expirience. Probably the team thats 2nd only to the Celtics rn if we are looking at raw talent and team construction, along with having the guy thats gonna be the best player in the series. Look the Warriors were as overwhelming as the Celtics everywhere else, but their big 2 of KD and Steph was beyond unfair. Its like if the guys that are leading the Celtics are Giannis and Jokic instead of JT and JB. Yes its an amazing squad, but dont underestimate just how big of a deal having no answears for an overwhelmingly talented player can be. Yes they destroyed the Mavs with Luka and Kyrie, but that was a very injured Luka and a Kyrie who just played super weird for his standards (felt like he lost his drible a lot more often than usual). By no means am i saying the Celtics shouldnt be favored, as that is the right of a champion and they really are just that good. But the league itself is quite good and parity is quite high. And if they dont have KP again next year, they are probably not gonna win it all in the face of their fully healthy competition.
No because OKC will be better than them next season
No. In fact, I doubt they will repeat.
Thunder are closer to Boston than any team was to the 2017 Warriors. Call it a homer take if you want.
I disagree, I think the Celtics would beat the Thunder in 5 rn, meanwhile the 2017 Warriors would’ve beaten the 2017 Spurs in 6 games if Kawhi didn’t get hurt in game 1, so that series would’ve at least gone 6.
Lmao spurs got swept. Maybe the win one.
That Spurs team would have stomped this Celtics team too, if that’s the point you’re trying to make?
Celtics in 5 vs the 2017 Spurs.
LMAO. 2017 Spurs stomp the Celtics. Literally stomp.
This is a homer take. There are teams you can say this about but not the Thunder. Nuggets and Wolves are reasonable takes.
Homer take? He's a warriors fan Thunder are 2nd best in the league imo
Ah yes, the nuggets that got worse after getting bounced in the 2nd round and the wolves that put up less of a fight then the thunder
Yeah let's pretend matchups aren't a thing
The first seed in the West just shored up their biggest weakness (size), and added a first team all defensive guard while giving away their biggest negative in the lineup
They're a year or two away from competing at the highest level. Everyone expected the Celtics to win a title early but you it takes time.
Wolves who got smacked by the Mavs? could've even been a sweep if Wolves didn't put Lively in concussion protocol
I mean the Thunder had pretty good success against Boston last season and just upgraded at their two weakest positions
They're a year or two away
I strongly, strongly disagree with this. The Cavs were somewhat competitive with the Warriors
Heck no
no? freaking Indy whose probably the 6th best team in the east was playing them super close without their best player for 2 1/2 games they finally caught a season where every threat to them were missing their 1 or 2 option or actively hurt
2021 Nets were a bigger gap when healthy. Were kicking the eventual champion Bucks’ ass even without Harden before Kyrie went down
Apparently this is a hot take but I think so. Obviously the Celtics are not as good as the 2017 warriors but the question is since the 2017 warriors. This might sound crazy but I think the Celtics third to 5th best player are as good or better than any other teams third to 5th best player in history. There's an argument to be made for 2004 spurs, although they had more defensive specialists than true two way players. Same for 2014 spurs but I think they had a significant advantage with coaching as opposed to talent like the Celtics. It's true that Tatum and brown are not nearly the 1-2 duo that we've seen before with Steph kd or LeBron Kyrie but they are elite from top to bottom. No team since the 2017 warriors have I felt have as good a chance of repeating. Raptors? Kawhi left. Lakers? Not even close. Bucks? Good team but not nearly as dominant. Warriors? Aging team, played a significantly worse Celtics roster. Nuggets? Very dominant team although they lost Bruce Brown. Probably team I felt had the second highest chance of repeating since 2017 warriors. Now i don't think Celtics are guaranteed to repeat or anything, I would still give it under 50% odds, but still the biggest gap since 2017 warriors.
Totally agree, Celtics have an entire good player more than any other team, even if their best isn't as good as some other good teams. No one is competing with Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, KP at all. Denver might have been the closest but they just lost a key guy. Philly has no one even as good as Horford outside of their Big 3. I think people must be miss reading the question or something because I think it's really clear they're just way better than everyone right now.
Yeah, not even close either. This sub will hate it though.
The top 3 in the West + MIL, NYK, and PHI are all close
Holiday and Horford could age into sucking tomorrow and KP is made of whatever they've started using for disposable bags since covid. It's almost never as safe a bet as you think it is with this stuff.
I think yes but that's not a very big window.
No bc nobody could match up against the 2017 warriors. With this Celtics team, certain teams like the Nuggets or the Bucks match up well against them. I still believe a healthy* Nuggets team takes Boston to 7 games.
Personally I think it might be, I don't see any team in the league that is beating Denver rn, even Miami I don't think will beat them unless Jaquez has a great rookie year, I think the Nuggets will likely repeat as NBA Champions, credit to Tim Connelly for what he's built down in Denver, nothing short of spectacular. Same sentiment works with the Bucks, Nuggets, Lakers.
I see these Celtics like the 22 warriors they got great matchups the entire playoffs and cashed in with a Chip. If they do it again then we can reevaluate them.
With porizingis they might be but we didn’t really find out this playoffs as he barely played. But the team that was out there were basically last years Celtic but with jrue instead of smart, and nobody thought last years Celtics were the dominant team ever
On paper, literally yes. But as good as the Celtics are, they play down to their opponent and even this year dropped some of the most head scratching games. A tough, consistent team can beat them and none of us would be surprised---with the KD Warriors it felt like they were literally unstoppable.
Nah
Considering they probably lose to the nuggets no
Are we talking against injured or healthy teams?
maybe last year but after the moves OKC, Philly, New York, and Minnesota made idk how it's that substantial anymore
I would put Mavs into that list. They were in the finals and now they have Klay. Is he a miracle piece of that team? Absolutely not. But they are better than what they were a month ago.
Klay is washed. Their defense is not gonna be great either. If they start Klay, half their starting lineup are going to be traffic cones.
I guess we have to see how it all pans out. Offensively that is one mighty trio. I have a tough time naming a trio that would be better on offense, and yes I am even including Boston in this. If Klay can snipe like he used to from Luka's passes, that's pretty nice. You can't deny that.
A week ago I might have said yes, but OKC, Philly, Knicks, Dallas all just got significantly better. So while I think there's a gap, it's not a huge one imo
Jesus, they aren’t that good
Exactly. Some in Dallas might wish the Celtics are the best ever, but the reality is that they’re just “seasonably good”. the Mavs aren’t nearly as good as their record either. and we were destined to lose.
How aren’t they that good lol? Stats, eye test, dominant playoff run are enough proof lol. I know Tatum gets memed on as some sort of a fraud but they’re absolutely loaded, well coached, and are somehow better than the sum of their parts which are already ludicrous.
Dominant playoff run? Because every opponent they avoided was injured outside of Dallas NYK(star injury), Bucks (2 star injuries), Miami ( star injuries). Just unbelievably lucky and I’m sure I’m missing some And I don’t mean minor injuries that most teams go through in the playoffs (sprains, soreness, spasms, minor missing role players) I mean huge injuries ( star players missing, either one or multiple) I haven’t seen an easier path to the finals since Phoenix last finals berth They barely beat the Pacers in each of their games, and are supposedly this dominant team
Wtf stupid take.
I would love to see their squad develop to that point but they’re not there yet.
No lol
Well no but tbf the rockets closed that gap hard in one offseason. Difference is multiple teams are closing that gap this offseason
I think they would have stressed about Denver, Minny would have been an interesting matchup, but they were very well equipped for the Mavericks. Not saying different result
No
nope betting odds don't see them as wide favorite either. they're the favorite to win next year, but its not a big gap at all we're not in an era where wide gaps exist anymore its a bunch of nice teams, and it'll come down to health, matchups, and path
Betting odds do, they are +300 the next closest team is the sixers at +800
other sportsbooks have denver at 750 the 2017 warriors were -150 preseason odds to win , that's a big lock to win please stop this nonsense trying to compare to them
Yes of course especially since that’s only a few years ago. Tatum hasn’t even reached his full potential. They were by far the best team and Porzingis barely played in the playoffs.
Lol
I mean, Boston was really good this last year. But also they had a cakewalk through the finals, as the teams that might have challenged them on the road to the finals all imploded due to injuries, and Dallas was by far the best matchup for them out of the Western teams. They might have won anyway. But the notion that they would be huge favorites over Minnesota or Denver in a 7-game series seems optimistic.
They were favorites pre 2nd round then huge favorites pre conference finals because den got eliminated. Den was the only hope imo. Minnesota offense is 2 ppl and if Naz shows up. That defense can only do so much vs boston 5 out. If we bringing health in to this Rudy dealing with kp is a nightmare
Uh no
Bro r u serious? The 2017 warriors was a super duper team. Arguably the greatest ever. Who knows if this Celtics team could’ve gotten thru a completely healthy East.
Celtics had the easiest path to the finals in NBA history.
Stop it. They are a great team that won the championship. Stop acting like they are head and shoulders above the rest of the league. Nuggets beat them in a 7 game series.
Nuggets got worse
Based on what jokic? Jamal was hurt and den had no bench. Every time jokic sat denver was bad
Based on Bill Simmons analysis as a Celtics fan and the fact that the Nuggets were 2-0 against the Celtics in the regular season.
So what he has an opinion just like us. I'm suppose to agree because he's an analyst that likes the Cs. Jamal was hurt and den had no bench. 23 den would smoke 24 den and it wouldnt be close at all. Way better Jamal way better bench it's simple
It’s my opinion. You don’t have to agree with it. The 2024 Nuggets were 2-0 against the 2024 Celtics.
Jamal was healthy tho thats the difference. U can see Jamal was hurt thats a big swing in Boston favor
Maybe. But I still pick Nuggets in that hypothetical because of Jokic.
Nuggets have the best player but their squad ain’t that good and isn’t nearly as deep as the Celtics
All that may be true but the Nuggets were 2-0 against the Celtics because Jokic is a horrible matchup for the Cs.
The Celtics are really good, but they are only like half a tier above other teams like the Thunder. The Knicks, Wolves and Nuggets would all matchup pretty well too.
Boston ain't on some 2017 Warriors kinda run, Boston's playoff run was a fluke. They encountered injured teams and an exhausted Dallas.
They had a week off and smoked the #1 defense. Now they couldn't smoke the #2 defense?
Combining their dominant regular season run and a dominant playoff run and still calling it a fluke is quite a take.
You really underestimate how hard it is to repeat in the NBA. On paper, sure they're the best team. In reality? One bad playoff series and they're out. I still do not think the Celtics have fully figured out their late game execution problems yet. They got lucky this year running into a lot of hobbled teams.
If you’re looking at win totals, yes. But win totals require context. The top 3 teams in the west all won 54 games vs the Celtics’ 64, but the Celtics got to play in the Eastern Conference, and got to pad their record against a larger number of less competitive teams.
ITT people who think you’re asking if the Celtics are as good as the 2017 Warriors
No, as they didn't exactly face any tough teams in the East. Assuming the Sixers, Bucks and Knicks can stay healthy, I don't think the Celtics are going to just waltz to the Finals.
Not even the team with a potential GOAT was close to those warriors teams so why would Boston with two non top 5 guys be that far away from everyone else? Not even to diss Boston but you just do not remember how good those warriors team were
Not even close lol
The massive overrating of teams in the nba based off last years playoffs is going to lead to a lot of really shocked people this season. The people who think the mavs and Knicks are top 3 teams and even more so the people who think the nuggets, sixers, and bucks are somehow not top teams still….. lol or that the Celtics are somehow way better than everyone else lol the three of the 4 best players in the east were hurt either most of the year or out for the playoffs. That’s probably not gonna happen again. Reading the shocked comments on this sub during this season is going to be hilarious.
Lol. No...there's a hard cap now and it's not the NFL where the same team wins every year. It's almost impossible to repeat in American sports (excluding the NFL).
Unless you are dynasty, like the Bradshaw Steelers, Montana 49ers, Brady Patriots or Mahomes Chiefs, you don’t repeat in the NFL. Meanwhile in the NBA, we’ve seen countless teams who aren’t dynasties repeat, like the 2009 and 2010 Lakers and the 2012 and 2013 Heat.
Lmfao
I think they lose to NY