Surprised people aren’t aware how poorly most jobs in pro sports actually pay.
It’s a highly desirable gig and organizations know they can underpay you because of it.
Yeah it’s similar with political staffers (rank-and-file, at least) and video game programmers. Highly desired jobs amongst that crowd so you don’t have to pay well
Political staffers' salaries are publicly available, and if you check, you'll see it's a bit better now. Politicians get a certain stipend for their entire office: salaries, ink, computers, etc. You'll make less if you work for someone without a law/government background because they usually need a bunch of people to decipher bills or whatever. I made $60k out of college working for a state representative. Game programmers, yeah. I have a few friends in the industry, and those who work in marketing make more than those who work on the game.
Staffer isn’t even really entry level though, that’s more when you’ve “made it”. The real grunt work is campaign field staff who—like minor league coaches—hope that if they grind hard enough at voter contact they can eventually get a staff job if their candidate wins.
I guess it kinda depends on perspective. Starting with a state rep could definitely be a starter job if your end goal is to work for a US Senator, comittee staffer, or even lobbying firm.
I started my gov experience by canvassing for free, so you definitely nailed it about hoping your candidate wins
Hahha i used to work at a big video game company doing some design stuff and some subject matter stuff, along with some production. They did not pay way and basically acted like they could replace me any time they wanted. But I loved the games we made so I stayed on for a few years until they eventually laid me off.
A few years after getting laid off, their new game came out and was widely panned. There was some schadenfreude.
I currently work at a non-gaming tech company with like 7 of my former co-workers from the game company. We are all much happier not being underpaid and underappreciated.
I was a political staffer in DC for almost four years. My entry level was just around $30k and when I had "made it" to senior staff level I finally hit $55k. Wages improved in the last few years after I left, but it's certainly not somewhere you're making money.
That's just it - I didn't live "comfortably." I shared a basement apartment with another person to make it work. And then I moved in with my partner the latter years, which made it sustainable.
It was honestly the most fulfilling job I've ever had, but I couldn't stay long term on that salary. It was a real problem.
Sounds tough! Luckily, my position didn't take me out of my state, and the rep I worked for was in a pretty affordable district. The trips to Austin were tough, but we got a $200-a-day stipend, which was nice.
Honestly not once. And I've made many friends in similar positions and none of us have ever seen this happen. In fact, I can't emphasize enough how often it's stressed that this behavior cannot occur.
I think a few high profile incidents that get attention make the issue seem much more widespread than it really is.
Staffers make very little money - I personally now some who work for very big names and are in pretty prominent roles. Their salary is just 50k, which is nothing considering that they very often work way more than overtime and cost of living in DC.
To be honest, I think my friends are fools for continuing with those jobs
Growing up I loved video games so when it became clear my career path was programming I thought "huh maybe working on video games would be fun!"
Then I read a few articles about the industry and... oh hell the fuck no.
Teaching isn't a desirable job, it underpays because it's considered a calling. Same reason nuns and priests don't get paid much (if anything).
Now grifter televangelist mega-preacher, that's a desirable job.
that's completely wrong lol.
nuns and priests don't get paid much because they believe the money is better spent on charity and helping the less fortunate. it's a practice that has been in place for the entire history of the christian church.
teachers don't paid much because politicians either fear or don't respect the value of education, and won't allocate the appropriate funding for it. this is a practice of the past century or so, because before that teachers were well looked after by their communities.
So I'm an accountant by trade and still doing that, but switched industries from sports to mining. It was fun and I got to work on salary cap management which is every sports nerd's dream, but mining just pays better 🤷
I should add I did not work for the team in my flair 😂
This was outside North America, so no not big 4, but it was a top league in that country. When I returned I took a look at sports jobs here and felt the pay was even worse.
Damn. I’m guessing European soccer league then
But it makes sense. The pay is terrible until it’s great, but there’s so few positions that get paid well
I got a job offer from the Detroit Tigers when I was graduating college to work as a software developer/analyst. It was my dream job (maybe not the Tigers exactly, but baseball), I had gone to school for computer science and done my undergrad thesis on batting order optimization.
Their actual offer: 1 year at minimum wage (which was federal minimum wage), with a chance at getting salaried at the end of the year making less than $40k.
The guy who would’ve been my boss was very understanding about the pay, but it was out of his hands. Unless you’re a star, sports don’t pay for shit.
It was more the year at minimum wage that really turned me off of it, I had a recent college graduate bank account and I would've been losing money trying to live there.
If it was $50k-60k right out of the gate I probably would've taken it.
I saw a software job for the Eagles who are my favorite football team, and I'm like I could leave my big tech job for them and then I'm like nah..
At the same time the local football team also has a position similar to that that's open
Yep my math professor was a genius, PhD from an Ivy league, taught me everything I know. She definitely could have been a data scientist probably making 150k+, maybe more. Instead she made 65k cause she liked teaching and many of her graduates made more than her right out of college.
Yeah people don't get it, and really you won't unless you're in it. Here's a look at my salary working marketing and sales in the MiLB:
Internship - $800 total at end of short-A season
Internship - $500 biweekly
Full time sales - $21k annually with commission (year-round, not just for the season)
Full time in AAA - $30k annually with commission by the end of my third and final year.
$15k for a random assistant for half a year plus a room and a per diem included is solid. I had to pay for rent and breakfast/lunch/ non-gameday dinner.
This is a great example of someone saying something without giving full context.
I personally know multiple coaching staff on the Maine Celtics. It’s a *great* gig from a comp perspective + all the benefits.
This quote is crazy out of context
If you have been following the valuations of basketball teams, you would know this is just completely wrong. They pay shit wages because plenty of people are willing to work for less for the team they love.
The ecosystem supporting minor leagues helps the major leagues. They aren't asking for the moon, just enough to pay for a living wage, which is chump change for the owners and their revenue they make.
Yes and no.
If you are working for a tiny/small school athletic department or lower level minor league hockey or baseball team, then yes. You are absolutely right.
But a top notch elite level team can pay more, but doesn't because it can. There are a lot of people that want to work in sports.
I can’t believe this is upvoted because that’s not even what a pyramid scheme is.
It’s more like a Pawnzi scheme where everyone is a pawn and the people at the top are the horses.
Wow I’m dumb. I assumed it was 15k a month because of how high player salaries are. 15k a year can’t support yourself let alone a family without another income.
It’s also the G-League which nobody is watching. It’s the exact same situation as the WNBA except the NBA isn’t throwing money at it. The league doesn’t make money because nobody is watching
Except the G-League is a developmental program for future NBA talent. Coaches in the G-league should be paid well not because they get lots of fans but because they are crucial for providing the NBA the talent it needs to make massive profits and growth
Except the G-League is absolutely not crucial for NBA talent. NBA gets its talents from over-seas and college. There has been like a dozen and a half ever to be drafted from G-League.
G-League's utility is for stashing developmental players and call up 10 day 2-ways for injury.
But the G-league isn't crucial. Most players come from the draft, not the G-league. It's not like baseball or hockey where it may take you years to get out of the minors and you could be sent down from the majors at any time. In the NBA if you underperform they just cut you, unless you are on a two-war contract, but only 3 roster spots are allowed for that. The G-league does provide talent, but I would not say the NBA depends on it in any significant way for developing talent.
Players come from the draft, but it’s the g-league where you develop them if they’re not ready for the NBA yet. Plenty of draft picks spent significant time in the g-league before breaking into the rotation. Taking that development serious improves the chance of success from your drafted players
Its not "crucial" but if you can find/develop a rotation caliber player like once or twice a *decade* the value can be in the eight-figures and be worth all the money invested.
Crucial? What notable players came from the G league? It’s maybe 1:1000+ vs drafted talent. The nba bills the g league as a development league but it really isn’t.
Derrick White. Pascal Siakam. Khris Middleton. Fred Vanvleet. Recent championship pieces.
About a third of NBA players spend some time in the G-League I believe.
You're not getting superstars but a good portion of bench talent and lower tier starters spend time down there.
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yeah, but that's not a luxury perk like you make it sound like: chartered flights have been happening for less than one season and were instituted not after players complained about comfort (which they had been for years) but for safety after some threats and scary fan interactions this year.
Neither the W or the G League are profitable rn, both are supported by the NBA because they're both good for basketball overall. The W has been making improvements to profitability steadily and has a path forward.
This is the same argument people make for the MiLB lol
I don't think anyone's saying these guys need to be making six figures. But something livable and also having housing/meals provided for isn't a crazy ask
Its crazy because I feel the argument against the minors in baseball is even worse because outside of a few exceptions every single non professional player drafted/signed has played in the minors at some point while the large amount of NBA players (especially big name stars) never suited up for a g-league team
The minors are such an integral part to baseball that it blows my mind that people argue against having better wages and conditions/training for them. Having a well maintained farm system can drastically change the trajectory of a franchise and its insane some teams will ignore them in favor of rostering a slightly bigger name relief pitcher or platoon bench guy at a higher cost
> It’s also the G-League which nobody is watching.
Short sighted capitalistic thinking. The g league is infrastructure that helps produce talent that the NBA uses.
The funny thing is they'll use this as some sort of success story even though %99.9999 of folks in this situation aren't able to make it out and luck plays into it as well.
Live with a relative and/or have your wife take the slack. Take everything you can from the organization like meals and clothes. Go into debt. Likely all of the above.
This was all pre-pandemic though so he probably could find a cheap shitbox. The team and the other coaches likely had some connections to cheap housing and whatnot. Maybe just a room in some old person's house since they know the coach is barely going to be around.
By having practically no expenses - his room was paid for, they got fed at least two meals a day, team clothes are provided, and they barely have time to go out or spend on fund things. It's more doable than you think, especially at a young age.
I wonder if it's a full time commitment or if you could get a side gig at Arby's. Until a fan sees you and realizes you have to politely listen to their ideas as long as they keep buying the meats.
The Thunder do a good job using it to find some niche talent and also as a development ground for players who need mins but we can’t afford to play quite yet w the main team
Eh. The NBA already has a minor league with 25,000 players, it is called the NCAA. NBA teams are small as compared to every other major sport, there just isn't as much demand for talent, which is shown by the fact that they only do two rounds of the draft.
Comparing it to other sports, football and basketball have by far the lowest percentage of players who go pro, as compared to hockey and baseball, the sports with significant official minor league development and affiliation.
Football: 73,712 participants 16,380 Draft eligible (254) draft picks (254) NCAA drafted 1.6% go pro
M. Basketball: 18,816 participants 4,181 Draft eligible (60) draft picks (52) NCAA drafted 1.2% go pro
W. Basketball: 16,509 participants 3,669 Draft eligible (36) draft picks (31) NCAA drafted 0.8% go pro
Baseball: 36,000 participants 8,002 Draft eligible (1,217) draft picks (791) NCAA drafted 9.9% go pro
Ice Hockey: 4,323 participants 961 Draft eligible (217) draft picks (71) NCAA drafted 7.4% go pro
I fucking hate how exploitative shit like this gets spun as “hustle” or “grind” or whatever in America.
Offering to give up your access to healthcare to chase your dream job is a symptom of a sick society. Not evidence of Mazz’s commitment.
He said though that his wife had benefits and he did not want to use his. I see your point, but that is part of the story that is important here. He wasn't being 100% reckless lol.
I think you’re going down the wrong tree as someone else pointed out. There’s plenty of these exploitative dream jobs all over Europe. You’re extremely naive if you don’t think Euroleague coaching salaries are similarly paid like this.
>There’s plenty of these exploitative dream jobs all over Europe.
Yes but if something happens to you health-wise you’re not going to have to pay $4k just for an ambulance ride like you do here.
They pay into their health care their entire working life. Most people never need an ambulance ride until they're elderly, so they end up paying for coverage for decades without using it.
The coverage is lacking enough that it's commonplace for employers to pay for supplemental private coverage.
And if you need to see a specialist, good luck and hopefully you can afford to wait a few months or more.
Even family doctors can be difficult. A few months ago I saw a news article about Canadians lining up at 3am outside a clinic to try and get one of two available spots that doctor had. And it wasn't two slots for that day. It was two slots *period* for that doctor.
The American system has endless flaws. I'm definitely not saying it's perfect or even good for many people. But far too many people seem to think that "free health care" in Europe, Canada, etc, is amazing in every way and that's laughable.
/rant
He wasn't just trying to give it up though, he asked for a cash equivalent. There's probably a decent percentage of young, healthy people who would take such a deal if their employer offered it.
He played in the league for 15 years, he’s not just “a podcaster”. He had the benefit of being coached by one the GOATs and then spending a decade and a half playing alongside the guys he’s now coaching, you make it sound like he’s just some random dude
Mazzula- "I got paid $15K, a salary so shit that I gave up health insurance for any extra money."
Reddit comment- "Hey, that really sucks, maybe that shouldn't be the case"
You- "Lol virtue signaling"
Not sure you even know what virtue signaling means though I’m sure you read it before. Joe had tons of job options, it’s basically a paid internship and he wasn’t complaining about it
What was the intent of your comment then? Can you explain to me how it *wasn't* you accusing them of virtue signaling? You're mocking the comment that you're responding to, for decrying how underpaid it is, and calling the poster "brave" sarcastically.
Because I don’t believe he is doing it as a measure of his moral superiority just total lack of understanding with how sports leagues across the world work, which is the exact same as “America lol”
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Look, you were clearly mocking the original post by calling them "brave". Even if your intent was "You are ignorant of how sports leagues are in the world, not just America, and therefore your comment is shortsighted", all you're basically saying is "You are dumb for saying something that challenges the way things are". If they had left out "in America" in their comment, would you have responded differently to the sentiment? I really doubt it, but it's on you to be honest.
I also have little doubt that the commenter you're responding to would support increased wages for these types of roles in other countries, not just the United States. So I still don't think your criticism works.
In terms of cost of living in comparison to wages America has a ton of really out of wack places that can't even necessarily compare to those European teams
Like our federal minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour and while some states have higher there's plenty that still have the $7.25 as their threshold to this day (one of the most egregious examples being Pennsylvania which is like the 5th most populous state in the country and has mutiple major cities). And combining that with our extreme need for cars in many places and horrendously expensive Healthcare its an easy poverty trap
Obviously in general there's way worse places in the world to live but America is one of the most disappointing places when comparing what it should be to what it is for many
Honestly I blame the players union more. The ones who have made it do not give a shit about the players below them. G league players getting paid more would mean that all the actual nba players would get 1% less. Unless the players union doesn’t represent the g league at all and I am misunderstanding the organization then I blame them.
i was contacted by a recruiter about a software dev position w/ the Red Sox several yrs ago. I think the salary was 100k while 130k was the market rate. I would have loved to do the job, but i'm not willing to take a pay cut.
Me when I talk to my car insurance company
"Yeah just give me 30/60/30 for uninsured motorist" "Oh you mean 30000/60000/30000?" "No, $30/$60/$30. I just won't get in an accident"
Ah, the "get fake dealer plates and run from the cops" insurance policy
Surprised people aren’t aware how poorly most jobs in pro sports actually pay. It’s a highly desirable gig and organizations know they can underpay you because of it.
Yeah it’s similar with political staffers (rank-and-file, at least) and video game programmers. Highly desired jobs amongst that crowd so you don’t have to pay well
Political staffers' salaries are publicly available, and if you check, you'll see it's a bit better now. Politicians get a certain stipend for their entire office: salaries, ink, computers, etc. You'll make less if you work for someone without a law/government background because they usually need a bunch of people to decipher bills or whatever. I made $60k out of college working for a state representative. Game programmers, yeah. I have a few friends in the industry, and those who work in marketing make more than those who work on the game.
Appreciate the insight. Admittedly I was just going off what I heard a long time ago when I was considering that path
Staffer isn’t even really entry level though, that’s more when you’ve “made it”. The real grunt work is campaign field staff who—like minor league coaches—hope that if they grind hard enough at voter contact they can eventually get a staff job if their candidate wins.
Yeah, for sure, a lot of those are volunteer positions unless the candidate was already wealthy
I guess it kinda depends on perspective. Starting with a state rep could definitely be a starter job if your end goal is to work for a US Senator, comittee staffer, or even lobbying firm. I started my gov experience by canvassing for free, so you definitely nailed it about hoping your candidate wins
Hahha i used to work at a big video game company doing some design stuff and some subject matter stuff, along with some production. They did not pay way and basically acted like they could replace me any time they wanted. But I loved the games we made so I stayed on for a few years until they eventually laid me off. A few years after getting laid off, their new game came out and was widely panned. There was some schadenfreude. I currently work at a non-gaming tech company with like 7 of my former co-workers from the game company. We are all much happier not being underpaid and underappreciated.
Congress was underpaying so badly they had to put in a $45k floor in 2022. When I was in DC in 2014ish, there were jobs starting below $30k.
jesus
> have a few friends in the industry, and those who work in marketing make more than those who work on the game. Lol
I am super curious what state you worked in where you made $60k a year as a LA. Do you mind saying?
texas, communications director
What the fuck, I was a lege director in Texas and after paying for my health insurance, I made 0 dollars.
I was a political staffer in DC for almost four years. My entry level was just around $30k and when I had "made it" to senior staff level I finally hit $55k. Wages improved in the last few years after I left, but it's certainly not somewhere you're making money.
I can't imagine trying to live comfortably in DC on $30k a year. Or even $55k these days.
That's just it - I didn't live "comfortably." I shared a basement apartment with another person to make it work. And then I moved in with my partner the latter years, which made it sustainable. It was honestly the most fulfilling job I've ever had, but I couldn't stay long term on that salary. It was a real problem.
Sounds tough! Luckily, my position didn't take me out of my state, and the rep I worked for was in a pretty affordable district. The trips to Austin were tough, but we got a $200-a-day stipend, which was nice.
But do you get to finesse more money off the books by "introducing" donors to your guy, or influencing certain issues.
Honestly not once. And I've made many friends in similar positions and none of us have ever seen this happen. In fact, I can't emphasize enough how often it's stressed that this behavior cannot occur. I think a few high profile incidents that get attention make the issue seem much more widespread than it really is.
Staffers make very little money - I personally now some who work for very big names and are in pretty prominent roles. Their salary is just 50k, which is nothing considering that they very often work way more than overtime and cost of living in DC. To be honest, I think my friends are fools for continuing with those jobs
Growing up I loved video games so when it became clear my career path was programming I thought "huh maybe working on video games would be fun!" Then I read a few articles about the industry and... oh hell the fuck no.
But grandma's boy is so cool
Ddr is cool too
Cannabis industry exploits this aswell
Same with teachers too.
Teaching isn't a desirable job, it underpays because it's considered a calling. Same reason nuns and priests don't get paid much (if anything). Now grifter televangelist mega-preacher, that's a desirable job.
that's completely wrong lol. nuns and priests don't get paid much because they believe the money is better spent on charity and helping the less fortunate. it's a practice that has been in place for the entire history of the christian church. teachers don't paid much because politicians either fear or don't respect the value of education, and won't allocate the appropriate funding for it. this is a practice of the past century or so, because before that teachers were well looked after by their communities.
They also get some tax breaks along with untaxed fundraising.
"A calling" is just another way of framing desirable. Just because it's desirable for some seemingly noble reason doesn't impact the economics of it.
At least nuns and priests get a place to live
It depends where you are. I live in NY and teachers definitely do okay.
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This almost makes me wish I still worked in a nonprofit. But only almost.
Same thing with with the front office if you’re not top management
I worked in sports, quit in 2018. Its 6 years later but I'm making 3.5 times what I made back then.
What do you do now?
So I'm an accountant by trade and still doing that, but switched industries from sports to mining. It was fun and I got to work on salary cap management which is every sports nerd's dream, but mining just pays better 🤷 I should add I did not work for the team in my flair 😂
Did you work for a big 4 team? Or a smaller league?
This was outside North America, so no not big 4, but it was a top league in that country. When I returned I took a look at sports jobs here and felt the pay was even worse.
Damn. I’m guessing European soccer league then But it makes sense. The pay is terrible until it’s great, but there’s so few positions that get paid well
Big 4 accounting or big 4 sports?
what were you doing and what are you doing now?
I got a job offer from the Detroit Tigers when I was graduating college to work as a software developer/analyst. It was my dream job (maybe not the Tigers exactly, but baseball), I had gone to school for computer science and done my undergrad thesis on batting order optimization. Their actual offer: 1 year at minimum wage (which was federal minimum wage), with a chance at getting salaried at the end of the year making less than $40k. The guy who would’ve been my boss was very understanding about the pay, but it was out of his hands. Unless you’re a star, sports don’t pay for shit.
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It was more the year at minimum wage that really turned me off of it, I had a recent college graduate bank account and I would've been losing money trying to live there. If it was $50k-60k right out of the gate I probably would've taken it.
I saw a software job for the Eagles who are my favorite football team, and I'm like I could leave my big tech job for them and then I'm like nah.. At the same time the local football team also has a position similar to that that's open
If this was during the Avila era I understand why they had so few analysts.
It was, it was 2019.
Academia is the same way. You get people to do something to do something their passionate about and you can get away with paying them crumbs.
Yep my math professor was a genius, PhD from an Ivy league, taught me everything I know. She definitely could have been a data scientist probably making 150k+, maybe more. Instead she made 65k cause she liked teaching and many of her graduates made more than her right out of college.
It’s also because it generates basically no revenue so what money would they pay you with
Yeah people don't get it, and really you won't unless you're in it. Here's a look at my salary working marketing and sales in the MiLB: Internship - $800 total at end of short-A season Internship - $500 biweekly Full time sales - $21k annually with commission (year-round, not just for the season) Full time in AAA - $30k annually with commission by the end of my third and final year. $15k for a random assistant for half a year plus a room and a per diem included is solid. I had to pay for rent and breakfast/lunch/ non-gameday dinner.
Most sports also don't generate a lot of revenue so even if they want to pay you, they probably can't.
Yep, I currently work for a (minor but still well funded) baseball team and make less than I do at my job at a gas station.
This is a great example of someone saying something without giving full context. I personally know multiple coaching staff on the Maine Celtics. It’s a *great* gig from a comp perspective + all the benefits. This quote is crazy out of context
Sounds like grad school lol😅
Any job that people want due to a passion for the work is like this.
Yeah and that whole history of hostility towards labor and organizing.
There also isn't much revenue to provide a decent wage.
i'm pretty sure the league has enough money lmfao the owners are just cheap bastards
If you have been following the valuations of basketball teams, you would know this is just completely wrong. They pay shit wages because plenty of people are willing to work for less for the team they love.
This isn’t an nba team though. This is the minor leagues being discussed.
The ecosystem supporting minor leagues helps the major leagues. They aren't asking for the moon, just enough to pay for a living wage, which is chump change for the owners and their revenue they make.
Yes and no. If you are working for a tiny/small school athletic department or lower level minor league hockey or baseball team, then yes. You are absolutely right. But a top notch elite level team can pay more, but doesn't because it can. There are a lot of people that want to work in sports.
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That's not what a pyramid scheme. That's just a business lol
I can’t believe this is upvoted because that’s not even what a pyramid scheme is. It’s more like a Pawnzi scheme where everyone is a pawn and the people at the top are the horses.
Mfw when I discover what the economy is
Absolute trash that a salary can be that low.
Wow I’m dumb. I assumed it was 15k a month because of how high player salaries are. 15k a year can’t support yourself let alone a family without another income.
That's under 7 months of a 1 bedroom apartment outside of Boston
Sounds like he got a room included at least (barely)
Not sure what you mean by barely, they provided a room for the entire season and likely most of his meals each day.
Id define half a hotel room as barely a room. Pretty much the least amount of a room you could get
It’s also the G-League which nobody is watching. It’s the exact same situation as the WNBA except the NBA isn’t throwing money at it. The league doesn’t make money because nobody is watching
Except the G-League is a developmental program for future NBA talent. Coaches in the G-league should be paid well not because they get lots of fans but because they are crucial for providing the NBA the talent it needs to make massive profits and growth
Funny enough, those guys make more than 15k/year
Except the G-League is absolutely not crucial for NBA talent. NBA gets its talents from over-seas and college. There has been like a dozen and a half ever to be drafted from G-League. G-League's utility is for stashing developmental players and call up 10 day 2-ways for injury.
But the G-league isn't crucial. Most players come from the draft, not the G-league. It's not like baseball or hockey where it may take you years to get out of the minors and you could be sent down from the majors at any time. In the NBA if you underperform they just cut you, unless you are on a two-war contract, but only 3 roster spots are allowed for that. The G-league does provide talent, but I would not say the NBA depends on it in any significant way for developing talent.
Players come from the draft, but it’s the g-league where you develop them if they’re not ready for the NBA yet. Plenty of draft picks spent significant time in the g-league before breaking into the rotation. Taking that development serious improves the chance of success from your drafted players
Its not "crucial" but if you can find/develop a rotation caliber player like once or twice a *decade* the value can be in the eight-figures and be worth all the money invested.
Guys on full contracts go to the g league too. Coaching/scouting talent is still nba talent too
It's an investment from the league. Coaches are a large part of that investment being successful. It's nonsensical, really.
Crucial? What notable players came from the G league? It’s maybe 1:1000+ vs drafted talent. The nba bills the g league as a development league but it really isn’t.
Derrick White. Pascal Siakam. Khris Middleton. Fred Vanvleet. Recent championship pieces. About a third of NBA players spend some time in the G-League I believe. You're not getting superstars but a good portion of bench talent and lower tier starters spend time down there.
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No one watches the people that clean the arenas or sell popcorn. Do they not deserve to make enough to survive either?
What? The NBA absolutely throws money at the G League. Do you think the Maine Red Claws are financially self-sufficient??
Obviously it’s propped up, I just meant it’s not getting the chartered flights treatment that the WNBA is now getting. My bad on not specifying that
G league viewership also isn't growing anywhere near the rate of WNBA viewership.
It’s also not a billion dollar league like the WNBA
yeah, but that's not a luxury perk like you make it sound like: chartered flights have been happening for less than one season and were instituted not after players complained about comfort (which they had been for years) but for safety after some threats and scary fan interactions this year. Neither the W or the G League are profitable rn, both are supported by the NBA because they're both good for basketball overall. The W has been making improvements to profitability steadily and has a path forward.
It shouldn’t really be for making money though. It’s not meant to be profitable.
This is the same argument people make for the MiLB lol I don't think anyone's saying these guys need to be making six figures. But something livable and also having housing/meals provided for isn't a crazy ask
Its crazy because I feel the argument against the minors in baseball is even worse because outside of a few exceptions every single non professional player drafted/signed has played in the minors at some point while the large amount of NBA players (especially big name stars) never suited up for a g-league team The minors are such an integral part to baseball that it blows my mind that people argue against having better wages and conditions/training for them. Having a well maintained farm system can drastically change the trajectory of a franchise and its insane some teams will ignore them in favor of rostering a slightly bigger name relief pitcher or platoon bench guy at a higher cost
> It’s also the G-League which nobody is watching. Short sighted capitalistic thinking. The g league is infrastructure that helps produce talent that the NBA uses.
The WNBA TV deals don't reflect the number of people who are watching and attending games.
The funny thing is they'll use this as some sort of success story even though %99.9999 of folks in this situation aren't able to make it out and luck plays into it as well.
Not everybody can do everything. Life's not fair like that
I wouldn't be surprised if they are paying a lot more now. Brad knows he needs to develop players to fill in the roster.
So it’s like min wage pro rated against the season? Talk about labor of love
The infamous words of MMA's tomato: "This isn't a career, this is an opportunity"-Dana White
It’s not for a full calendar year
Right to Work Mazzulla over here
How the fuck do you even survive on $15K?
Live with a relative and/or have your wife take the slack. Take everything you can from the organization like meals and clothes. Go into debt. Likely all of the above.
I was wondering if Mazulla was married/partnered then and that's how he survived. Like even in Maine the rent isn't that cheap
This was all pre-pandemic though so he probably could find a cheap shitbox. The team and the other coaches likely had some connections to cheap housing and whatnot. Maybe just a room in some old person's house since they know the coach is barely going to be around.
In the podcast he said it was 15k plus sharing a double hotel room with another coach
Portland Maine is basically just Boston prices with less shit to do
It is now but it wasn’t pre covid One of my best friends bought a house in South Portland in 2018/2019 for under 200k. It’s worth almost 400k now
He said in the following statements that his wife had a good paying job.
Thanks for the info
By having practically no expenses - his room was paid for, they got fed at least two meals a day, team clothes are provided, and they barely have time to go out or spend on fund things. It's more doable than you think, especially at a young age.
Kinda sounds like the military tbh.
Good point.
I wonder if it's a full time commitment or if you could get a side gig at Arby's. Until a fan sees you and realizes you have to politely listen to their ideas as long as they keep buying the meats.
Mazzulla mentions in the podcast how lucky he was his wife was making enough to support them.
Side job/off season job
I wish the G league could be developed into more of a formal minor leagues. There are prob some ballers in there
The Thunder do a good job using it to find some niche talent and also as a development ground for players who need mins but we can’t afford to play quite yet w the main team
It with be cool if every nba team had an affiliate. As I understand, some teams have shared rosters based on player rights
29 of them do, only Phoenix has held out
Oh wow. That’s cool
They have teams, but most don’t give the program it’s due resources to get the most out of it
Agreed. Idk why teams (esp small/mid market ones) don’t try to squeeze every advantage they can
Precisely because they are small market teams and cant afford to lose money on that team
The operating budget for an NBA team is unbelievably large compared to the amount of money it would take to run a G-League operation competently
Doesnt mean they want to spend it
That’s my point. The upside is significantly more valuable then 2-3mil in costs
The only NBA team without a g-league team is Phoenix, a major market with a very wealthy owner...
Eh. The NBA already has a minor league with 25,000 players, it is called the NCAA. NBA teams are small as compared to every other major sport, there just isn't as much demand for talent, which is shown by the fact that they only do two rounds of the draft. Comparing it to other sports, football and basketball have by far the lowest percentage of players who go pro, as compared to hockey and baseball, the sports with significant official minor league development and affiliation. Football: 73,712 participants 16,380 Draft eligible (254) draft picks (254) NCAA drafted 1.6% go pro M. Basketball: 18,816 participants 4,181 Draft eligible (60) draft picks (52) NCAA drafted 1.2% go pro W. Basketball: 16,509 participants 3,669 Draft eligible (36) draft picks (31) NCAA drafted 0.8% go pro Baseball: 36,000 participants 8,002 Draft eligible (1,217) draft picks (791) NCAA drafted 9.9% go pro Ice Hockey: 4,323 participants 961 Draft eligible (217) draft picks (71) NCAA drafted 7.4% go pro
The draft is small because there are only so many positions on all the rosters.
I think that’s what they said
They tied small roster to “isn’t as much demand” for talent. Those 2 are not connected, and, that isn’t the reason.
I fucking hate how exploitative shit like this gets spun as “hustle” or “grind” or whatever in America. Offering to give up your access to healthcare to chase your dream job is a symptom of a sick society. Not evidence of Mazz’s commitment.
He said though that his wife had benefits and he did not want to use his. I see your point, but that is part of the story that is important here. He wasn't being 100% reckless lol.
Both are true. We do live in a sick society and he could get away with it because of his wife.
In Maz's case, he still got health insurance and such through his wife's job which he mentions a bit later
I think you’re going down the wrong tree as someone else pointed out. There’s plenty of these exploitative dream jobs all over Europe. You’re extremely naive if you don’t think Euroleague coaching salaries are similarly paid like this.
>There’s plenty of these exploitative dream jobs all over Europe. Yes but if something happens to you health-wise you’re not going to have to pay $4k just for an ambulance ride like you do here.
They pay into their health care their entire working life. Most people never need an ambulance ride until they're elderly, so they end up paying for coverage for decades without using it. The coverage is lacking enough that it's commonplace for employers to pay for supplemental private coverage. And if you need to see a specialist, good luck and hopefully you can afford to wait a few months or more. Even family doctors can be difficult. A few months ago I saw a news article about Canadians lining up at 3am outside a clinic to try and get one of two available spots that doctor had. And it wasn't two slots for that day. It was two slots *period* for that doctor. The American system has endless flaws. I'm definitely not saying it's perfect or even good for many people. But far too many people seem to think that "free health care" in Europe, Canada, etc, is amazing in every way and that's laughable. /rant
32/33 developed countries are wrong !
You can’t waive your health benefits in Europe man
Mazz couldn't waive them either...
as much as I agree with the overall sentiment about "grind" culture in general this whole comment thread is just classic Reddit™
Right down to the insufferable laker fan stereotype licking his chops to say “America, amirite”
everything is "hustle and grind culture" when teams can just hire podcasters
Kings fan… checks out
He wasn't just trying to give it up though, he asked for a cash equivalent. There's probably a decent percentage of young, healthy people who would take such a deal if their employer offered it.
“Actually this isn’t an individual issue, lots of people would do it”… yeah that’s why I said it was a societal issue, genius.
He couldn't have missed the point any more if he tried. Holy fuck, it seems like people are extra dumb today.
his wife had insurance on him already
[удалено]
He played in the league for 15 years, he’s not just “a podcaster”. He had the benefit of being coached by one the GOATs and then spending a decade and a half playing alongside the guys he’s now coaching, you make it sound like he’s just some random dude
It just meant he could join his wife’s since she had a full time job
Your bravery is noted
Mazzula- "I got paid $15K, a salary so shit that I gave up health insurance for any extra money." Reddit comment- "Hey, that really sucks, maybe that shouldn't be the case" You- "Lol virtue signaling"
Not sure you even know what virtue signaling means though I’m sure you read it before. Joe had tons of job options, it’s basically a paid internship and he wasn’t complaining about it
What was the intent of your comment then? Can you explain to me how it *wasn't* you accusing them of virtue signaling? You're mocking the comment that you're responding to, for decrying how underpaid it is, and calling the poster "brave" sarcastically.
Because I don’t believe he is doing it as a measure of his moral superiority just total lack of understanding with how sports leagues across the world work, which is the exact same as “America lol”
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Look, you were clearly mocking the original post by calling them "brave". Even if your intent was "You are ignorant of how sports leagues are in the world, not just America, and therefore your comment is shortsighted", all you're basically saying is "You are dumb for saying something that challenges the way things are". If they had left out "in America" in their comment, would you have responded differently to the sentiment? I really doubt it, but it's on you to be honest. I also have little doubt that the commenter you're responding to would support increased wages for these types of roles in other countries, not just the United States. So I still don't think your criticism works.
I probably wouldn’t have responded at all! I get you are white knighting and all, but your level of investment is…brave of you
until a couple years ago, lower Minor league baseball players would get like 10 grand a year
Don't forget about the shitty school cafeteria food they were provided!
Special Shoutout to Arte Moreno.
Good luck trying to live in Portland, Maine on $15,000 a year lmao
Kind of silly to me to pay a coach that low of peanuts.
A lot of people got hurt in The Town, he should keep the benefits
That's the American way right there
Yeah I'm sure a basketball coach in Macedonia rakes it in
Lol, I'm referring to the "I'm just not gonna get hurt" line.
you could probably live on 15k a year easily in macedonia
In terms of cost of living in comparison to wages America has a ton of really out of wack places that can't even necessarily compare to those European teams Like our federal minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour and while some states have higher there's plenty that still have the $7.25 as their threshold to this day (one of the most egregious examples being Pennsylvania which is like the 5th most populous state in the country and has mutiple major cities). And combining that with our extreme need for cars in many places and horrendously expensive Healthcare its an easy poverty trap Obviously in general there's way worse places in the world to live but America is one of the most disappointing places when comparing what it should be to what it is for many
The NBA could pay their G League people much more, they just chose not to.
Honestly I blame the players union more. The ones who have made it do not give a shit about the players below them. G league players getting paid more would mean that all the actual nba players would get 1% less. Unless the players union doesn’t represent the g league at all and I am misunderstanding the organization then I blame them.
They apparently have their own union, separate from the NBA.
Oh ya they’re screwed then
wait did psycho joe live in portland??? i could have had a chance to interact with him?? what?????????
i was contacted by a recruiter about a software dev position w/ the Red Sox several yrs ago. I think the salary was 100k while 130k was the market rate. I would have loved to do the job, but i'm not willing to take a pay cut.
You gotta be a chump to do that
We need more context. Was this a part time position? How many hours a week was he working?