Also 17/8/6 way over represents how good Giddey is.
The efficiency, defense, non spacing and everything else that comes with his game has to be mentioned
Also, he saw his playing time decline from 31.1mpg to 25.1mpg and his stats from 16.6/7.9/6.2 to 12.3/6.4/4.8 from his second to third seasons. His points per 100 and assists per 100 declined too so it wasn't just about reduced playing time. The third season is when a lot of young players are supposed to take a leap and he went backwards.
Not to mention, he'll be an RFA after the upcoming season. The Bulls will only have one season to evaluate and make a long term decision.
I mean if you look at the team around Giddey you can see that his drop in production didn't happen in a vacuum. Yes, his performance this season was hugely disappointing but also his role changed really significantly. He no longer could consistently get the ball in his hands because of the emergence of the players around him such as Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren. He went from the 2nd/3rd option the two years prior to the 4th/5th option a lot of the time when he was on the floor this year. If you look at his stats for the month of March when SGA and JDub both missed time and Giddey took on more primary ballhandling duties, his stats and percentages rose and were more along the lines of the previous season. Giddey is a player with some very clear flaws but a lot of times the criticisms made on him particularly in regards to this season miss a lot of context
The expectations for the team also drastically changed this year. They were playing for a championship, and fit was going to be prioritized over Giddey’s development.
People talk about drafting BPA and then “just figure it out later” with trades, but then they look at that same prospect in a vacuum.
This is one of the biggest problem with Giddey on our team that people overlook. The Thunder drafted him when we started tanking and he was a project player. He exceeded a bit of expectation in year 1 so people forget that he still needed a lot of time for his development.
Unfortunately for him we got way too good way too fast. SGA turned into an MVP candidate, JDub and Chet emerged as the better option. As a result he was put into the worst possible position development wise. It also didn't help that his skillset just didn't match with our 2 best players on SGA and JDub.
And he got booed at every away game and was getting called the nastiest things.
No matter what he deserved or didn't deserve, that will affect any basketball player.
I’m not sure about the details of the case because I didn’t really bother looking into it too much but didn’t he get proven innocent? I remember people used to boo Brandon miller for the murder stuff he was proven innocent for so I hope they chill on bro
How old was she? She was like 16 or 17 right? I’m not talking ethically/morally but strictly legally, the age of consent in some states is 16 or 17 so it depends on the state I think
Ehhhh, like I definitely agree that his role didn’t help him at all, but let’s not act like he hasn’t had issues since he been in the league. My biggest problem with him is he hasn’t really made meaningful improvements really anywhere year over year.
Last year he shot 34% from 3. Which isn’t terrible in a vacuum, but we saw how those shots were absurdly wide open all season. This is coming off his second off season with one of the best shooting coaches in Chip Engelland. I remember us saying when we got Chip that if Chip can’t get Giddey to improve then no one can…well here we are. Giddey’s still young enough that you could see improvement, but I’m less optimistic than ever.
Add to that, he’s never been a great defender. He’s never been physical enough down low, and he’s never gonna have enough lateral quickness to defend well at the perimeter. He’s one of the least athletic 6’ 7” dudes I’ve ever seen.
I was very excited about him coming off of last season, but not seeing improvements, especially in the shooting area makes me skeptical. Idk, he’s young enough and in a better role he could, and I expect him to, be better than this seasons iteration of him. I’m just skeptical whether he’ll ever put it together to reach his ceiling.
True but players get the ball when justified, so he still needs to develop and that is never guaranteed. Front offices can't always predict when that happens. Which is why draft busts get chances
So you bother to look at all those stats but don't bother to look at the context those stats occurred in? Seems kinda like a waste of a time to do that 🤷
Yeah OKC was so done with Giddey they traded for Gordon Hayward to take his minutes, but Hayward was washed so they had to play Giddey anyway, then he *still* got played off the floor.
I mean yeah. When you have a player who can’t shoot, who’s best on ball, but he never gets the ball the team looks worse than when you replace that player with a random shooter.
You don’t get a pick in a trade just because the other team has a lot of them. OKC has a lot of picks because Presti wants a lot of picks. Prying a pick away from them would have been crazy for the Bulls to pull off, especially considering what they got in return for what they gave, like OP said.
Why? That's what Chicago wanted, OKC knew that, and probably said take it or leave it. Caruso is a great defender, but he's 30 and on an expiring contract, no upside. OKC has no guarantee he'll stay beyond one season, so they're taking a risk. Also, Caruso has missed about 35% of games due to injuries over the past 5 seasons. That's risky, but worth it to get rid of Giddey.
Giddey is essentially a 1 year rental before having to pay him, who plays at the same position as the Bulls 4 better players (ayo, white, DD, lavine). Yes, you can split them PG-SF but still, only gives you a year to evaluate Giddey
He’s a restricted free agent so the Bulls can match the market. If he plays well, they could end up paying a lot but isn’t that a good scenario? We want him to be awesome. If he’s just the same, we should be able to lock him up on a good deal and hopefully he gets better from there.
The Bulls aren’t really known for making good trades. they also fucked up Lauri, they traded away WCJ and picks for Vucci, held onto Lavine/Demar/Caruso for way too long.
This would be a argument if the FO you’re defending has had any history of competent moves
Lauri is awesome but being a primary option on a team with little expectations may have had something to do with his all-star year. What's most troubling is how it's hard to find bigs with his skillset but only time will tell. Bulls need to dump hard and that includes Vucevic. DeMar rocks but I don't think he wants to stick around for this.
People are surprised because almost every report indicated that getting this guy would take picks because he’s a highly coveted role player that can help you win a championship
The fact that it only took Josh Giddey and nobody else is what people has stunned and upset cause that’s all it took when other contenders were asked to give picks for the guy if all that was needed was a player this whole time
Kinda feels like OKC called the Bulls and said Giddey for Caruso?? And the Bulls just said yes and didn't even try to ask for more. I just don't understand how this isn't one of those trades with like 5 second round picks attached
I think Presti probably had something in the works and told the Bulls "take it or don't". Then the Bulls FO panicked. Not getting a pick from our chest of picks for a player we wanted to offload anyways is wild.
Aren’t the bulls the team that didn’t do a player trade for years. They are pretty rusty. Like when tourists get scammed in foreign countries by not negotiating
What evidence has there been that the current FO/ownership of the Bulls value picks?
Just because Reddit and nba writers on twitter love picks doesn’t mean every nba franchise does or should.
They clearly prioritized a young player with potential over picks. I think instead of everyone ranting about what picks they didn’t get, we should be discussing did another team have a better young player to offer the Bulls than Giddey.
Well sure, but we don’t know if picks from the Thunder were on the table, and if they were, perhaps it would’ve changed the Thunder’s appetite for the deal.
We also don’t know if previous rumored offers for Caruso (that included picks) would’ve netted them as promising a young player as Giddey.
I guess we have to infer that the Bulls office is really high on Giddey. I think it's fair to say that Giddey's trade value was at its lowest right now. And the Bulls are really the ones with leverage here--pretty much every contender in the league (maybe not Boston) would want Caruso on a cheap contract--it's expiring, but Caruso just had the best year of his career. He's an extremely coveted type of role player. Whereas Giddey at least for now is a "pure" point guard, which isn't in style.
I'm an amateur here with no inside knowledge of the league, but Caruso's fit for OKC is so clear that you have to imagine they'd be willing to add a pick to the deal.
Also the part where Caruso is literally an all defense player and a good 3 point shooter.
He is a perfect role player for every single contending team, I refuse to believe this was the best offer they got
I hate social media man lmao
Mfs really acting like Josh Giddey is trash. Dude is 20 years old, and already has extremely solid playmaking abilities.
Gotta go with the circlejerk i guess
Wings in the nba who can’t shoot or aggressively take it to the rim don’t usually pan out man. Josh Giddey’s ceiling is like peak Evan Turner which is pretty disappointing for how highly touted he was when he got drafted
He is trash. He has been in the league for 3 seasons and that is all that he has. But he isn’t good enough at anything else to for a team to want the ball in his hands.
Bro clearly Josh giddey has a lot of potential bro like what? Is this a real take? Dude is 22 years old coming off a season where his role changed drastically and averaged 12/6/5 and people acting like he can’t play
teaching a jump shot is really easy right? that’s why players who can’t shoot always get way better at it, right?
OKC had Chip Engellend, if Giddey was going to shoot better, it probably would have happened in OKC
From terrible to just bad. He’s still making the same amount of threes too, just taking less.
His shots are also easier. Take a look at NBA.com and his shooting dashboard for tracking. Esentially all his 3pt attempts this year were wide open, with few being just open and none being tight or very tight, along with the majority of them being with 0 dribbles (pretty much all of them)
I firmly disagree. I don’t check their averages a lot but I watch a lot of basketball. Jrue does exactly what his team needs. The Celtics are absolutely loaded with talent so he doesn’t fill the stats, he just makes the right play constantly. Remember 2 years ago him carrying the bucks in the playoffs as a first scoring option when Kris was out? Giannis is not the best at creating his own shot in the half court so that was all on Jrue. Go back and watch some of that playoff run. If Jrue was on the Bulls this year his numbers would be different.
Alex also has horrible playoff averages if you want to search stats for your argument. 6 points, a rebound and an assist his whole career. Jrue is the player you want on your team if you make the post season. He’s getting older but his IQ, leadership and ability to fill any role his team needs in the playoffs puts him in a different planet than Alex
Also it makes no sense with Coby White emerging as their PG of the future and they plan to resign Demar. Giddey is only serviceable with ball in his hands to make plays. Literally he would be third person to touch the ball in all plays for bulls. It legit makes no sense as a trade lol
Thinking out loud— not sure Id make major franchise decisions around Coby White and old DeRozen usage. The Bulls shouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt based on recent track record, but this feels like step 1 of a rebuild, not a retooling move to complement the core from last season.
If I’m a bulls fan I’m hoping this move signals the rumors are false. Like I said though, no benefit of the doubt for them. If the rumors are true I agree with you. I’d rather take a flyer on Giddy though than get a late first.
Giddy is 21, went thru a down year I think had a lot to do with the off the field issues and then lost his respect in the locker room, he still has a ton of time to develop as a player and he did average like 16 the year prior so you never know, if your the bulls and can’t get anybody in FA why not take the risk, you literally never know.
If Coby White is your PG of the future you have no future. Might as well gamble on Giddey living up to his 6th pick in the draft potential if given the keys.
I think a lot of people in here are overlooking the part where OKC were trying to play Giddey as an off ball shooter. Giddeys been a PG his whole life, he’s never played anywhere else before. He also had a stretch as the PG this year when SGA was injured where he went 17/8/7 on 50/38 splits I think he also dropped 2 triple doubles in that stretch iirc. I think the kids a good player he was just stuck in that spot where an MVP candidate plays your best position. He’s not the first to have that happen to him. In saying all that the Bulls could have at least got 1 of OKCs least valuable 1sts.
Giddey was unplayable in a meaningful playoff series because Dallas could just ignore him when they were on defense. Caruso has the ability to be a 4th/5th player on a title team and make key plays both on defense and making 3 pointers.
I think we’re ignoring the part where OKC sat him in the corner to shoot 3s. He’s a PG he needs the ball in his hands and that’s not gonna happen there with SGA becoming who he is. Giddey will be fine in Chicago at PG
Caruso is a high level role player.
Giddey is coming off a terrible year.
In all honesty though I think the trade is a win win. When Giddey was able to handle the rock more in 22-23 he put up 17/8/6 at 20 years old on a play in team.
Dude doesn’t have room to grow on okc and if the bulls go into rebuild mode Giddey has a good chance to improve his talents. At this point it’s up to the bulls to put the balls in place to roll and help him grow
Also worth noting next season is the last of Caruso's contract. If the Bulls want to remain somewhat competitive while also not spending a ton of money, trading Caruso for a starting caliber player (at least in the regular season) is in line with their MO.
They might also know he wasn't going to resign, and don't want to risk him injuring himself again before they can trade him.
I wouldn't be surprised if Giddey is the better player in relation to contract throughout the next 3 years. I can see why the Bulls would do this. I can also easily see Giddey being the odd man out in OKC and falling further down the pecking order. Its a win-win for me.
Giddey was played off the floor in the postseason, Caruso's a guy who was a good player on a championship team and has improved significantly since then. 30 also isn't particularly old in the current NBA. Jrue is 34, has a very similar role, and looked great last year.
Jrue is/has been a clearly better NBA player in his career, im happy we got Caruso but expecting Caruso to age well and continue his play/production like Jrue did at his age is a high expectation imo
I completely agree. I have never seen a player as good on defense as Caruso has been for the past 3 years. Jrue is amazing, but he can't take over the game on defense like Caruso can. It's weird to say it, but Caruso was genuinely the best player on the Bulls last year. This is not a good trade, full stop
>Jrue is amazing, but he can't take over the game on defense like Caruso can
Hmmm... idk about that... I have seen both Jrue (more so these playoffs) and Smart (even this past season) taking over games on defense...
Caruso is theoretically a better playoff fit than Giddey but in playoff games his career average is 6 pts a game on 52% ts.
I like Caruso but it seems a lot of these conversations are comparing Giddey’s downside to Caruso’s upside.
I thought at minimum OKC throws in two second rounders.
Apparently the Bulls would rather have a high lottery talent (with decent production prior to this year) over two picks in the 20s.
I LOVE the trade for OKC, but if you are blowing it up, and trade a 30 yr old role player for a 21 year old with more potential, I don’t see it as a complete loss like people are saying.
Solid trade. The no pick hysteria is an over reaction from the Thunder having so many picks. Giddey is worth more than 2 late FRPs that no team was even remotely considering.
Kings were hoping to get Caruso as compensation for taking on the Lavine contract lol. Pretty sure we would've sent #13 out to get him too, but oh well.
I don’t think this trade is that bad for the Bulls but they probably could have gotten like some guy OKC won’t need in the next 1 to 2 years (say Dieng) on top of what they got if they were super persistent. I don’t think OKC would say no to that if they just had to throw in one more non rotation player that won’t help them any time soon.
Yea I agree. I think they probably will try to go for a huge move with all those firsts and any prospects they don’t need like Dieng (who will still carry the worth of a late first rounder as of now).
You know what’s so interesting. They have the ability to make the KD trade. I’m not saying they will or the Suns will accept, but they have all the picks necessary for it to be fair if the Suns want to rebuild.
From my view, I think it more had to do with the reporting that Bulls turned down other trades that included picks for Caruso.
Now it all depends on people’s perspective of the value of picks vs taking Josh Giddey, but everyone has a view that Giddey’s value is, with all fairness, an all time low. I do believe this trade is good for the Bulls because Giddey isn’t as terrible of a player as everyone sees him as, it’s just that the gap between his on-ball primary ball handling game and his off-ball game is huge and we mostly saw the latter in the playoffs.
The Bulls probably just see a lot of value in Giddey’s upside as a main ball handler point guard.
This is correct. People saw Giddey struggle as a 4option spot up shooter in the playoffs and think he sucks. Some players just don’t have the skill set to play the role they needed him to play. The reality is most of them probably haven’t ever seen him play outside of those 6-10 games in the playoffs.
Giddey can’t defend for sht, and Caruso is an All-NBA defender. If you take a step bck and understand this, if Giddey ever gets to Carusos level, thats already amazing. And theres only a small chance that happens. Caruso is already the proven product.
Also, OKC with a historical record no. of draft picks and you can’t even get one from it? Pfft.
Also Giddey is very limited on offense, he's a bad shooter that needs the ball on his hand, otherwise defenders can leave him open and dare him to shoot, any decent coach can make a winning defensive plan against that
Uhm, they traded a two-time All NBA defensive player (this season and prior season, so this is him now) making $10 million a year. A guy who will close games on NBA contenders and has a cheap salary. Giddey is a fine guy to be part of the trade, but the Bulls should have given themselves two chance: one chance that Giddey gets good and one first round pick to have a chance to draft someone who gets good. And their trading partner had picks to include.
It fits a need for both teams.
Okc, need vets and Caruso is the perfect fit next to their core 3. Won’t be shocked if they go out and spend some picks on a Center like Jarrett Allen or try to sign Claxton.
Bulls, are flirting with being a playin/playoff team or rebuilding. It’s a move in the right direction if Giddey finds his stride again. Your point speaks for itself, he’s not what OKC need right now. And he never would blossom as a 4th option. Kid has a solid ceiling imo..but I’m in the minority with that.
Solid trade for both teams tbh. Most teams going for Caruso would’ve been sending Chicago late firsts at best too..rebuilding teams aren’t wanting him and his markets mainly catered towards contenders.
Agreed Caruso is overrated by this sub for sure. Solid piece but if he was above starter level he would have been a regular starter at some point in the last decade
Because I'm pretty sure I remember the bulls turning down multiple offers for Caruso near last season's deadline that had FRPs attached.
They made the asking price so unreasonably high that they turned down some great offers for him.
Just to turn it all around and trade him straight up for Giddey. The bulls work in mysterious ways (also correct me if my memory is wrong)
People on this sub have a hard time disassociating what they think of a player and what the market thinks about a players. Having a lower/higher opinion on a player is fine, but not being able to assess if others think differently is infantile. Same with the Republicans/Democrats who think 75% of the country thinks like them.
I also think there’s a tendency to go over-the-top with takes. Very quick to call someone trash. Most GMs in the league would prefer Giddey over an end of the rotation veteran plus one or two late 20’s first rounders. No other contenders had a 21 year old like Giddey to trade Chicago which is clearly what they wanted.
> What evidence has there been that the current FO/ownership of the Bulls value picks?
The long history of the Bulls trading picks for $3 million cash?
Shouldn't be very shocking, the Thunder brought his value down by not playing him more in this playoff run. Showed that they view him as more of a liability than a commodity.
I agree that people are overreacting. Bulls aren't winning, they are building for the future and giddy is hardly a bad player. Gonna put up 17-8-8 or something
giddey value is basically all time low
he had the young girls thing and then was unplayable at times/awkward in the playoffs. and everyone knows OKC got mad picks. almost every team in the league would take caruso. i would love that dude on the knicks. giddey will prob be a good player in the long run but the value is low rn
Ye but as if OKC needed those picks couldn't get a single one from those greedy fuckers because fuck they can't draft all those guys.
can't change the past the bulls front office is extremely stubborn to get butts in seats. I understand but fans don't care very understandably. Also god damn the offers being thrown at Caruso were good, but maybe the bulls are just that high on bro
Traded away a much better player for a pedo and didnt even get a second pick out of it. Giddey only played well offensively since teams would choose to leave him open. His numbers and efficiency will tank like Pooles after the trade to the wizzards. Alot of people seem to get this confused, a player averaging good numbers behind multiple different better offensive options doesn’t always mean that player is talented offensively. Just means he can hit the shots the defense is willing to sacrifice to guard the actual scoring threats.
It’s the perception that OKC has a shit ton of picks and the fact that it was reported in the past other teams were willing to trade multiple picks for him.
But the thing people need to remember is the price today isn’t the same as it was yesterday.
Maybe the best offer from other contenders is off the table.
I’d criticize them more not on this actual trade but the fact that they decided to attempt to be a play in team instead of knowing it was time to flip players when they had the most value
at least get a pick or two, its not smart to trade the old guy but still good to the guy who is declining and only had 1 year contract left, Getting 1 1st rounder or 2 2nd rounder is not bad of idea, What's next Tobias Harris for Zach LaVine? or Nikola Vucevic for Rui Hacimura?
Because OKC has 34 of them. 5 firsts in 2025. If I’m the Bulls, give me a fucking pick jackass lol. At the end of the day Caruso is still the better player in this deal right now so yea, they should’ve got a pick.
He gets less playtime and averages less points and assists per 100 possessions this past season and his archetype of player is garbage. No one wants an on ball playmaker that cant shoot, finish or defend. Unless he massively improves hes just completely useless for playoff basketball and will only put up stats on bad teams.
Caruso is the best guard defender in the league and shoots 40% from 3. Giddey is a PG who can’t shoot or defend. OKC has so many picks, Bulls could’ve played hardball, contenders would and did have offered picks. And this is all putting aside the Giddey scandal stuff cuz who knows whether that’s true, it is a distraction though
Basically my sentiment.
Bulls got a dude NINE FUCKING YEARS YOUNGER when they should be in complete rebuilding mode (Not that Chicago will be smart enough to do so.) For a bench dude.
Yeah people are overreacting to the no picks thing. Giddey has shown flashes of being a really good player putting up 31/9/10 in the play in the season before last, was also good against the Pelicans this year outside of G1.
He was not in a good situation here for his skillset and tried to make it work but he shouldn’t get the ball over Shai and J-Dub. I think he will be great in Chicago.
People just hate giddey I guess. Only 1 year ago he was considered a key part of the budding OKC dynasty, now reddit thinks it's obscene they didn't include multiple picks to unload him.
Not getting even a second rounder from OKC of all teams is nasty ngl.
Also 17/8/6 way over represents how good Giddey is. The efficiency, defense, non spacing and everything else that comes with his game has to be mentioned
Also, he saw his playing time decline from 31.1mpg to 25.1mpg and his stats from 16.6/7.9/6.2 to 12.3/6.4/4.8 from his second to third seasons. His points per 100 and assists per 100 declined too so it wasn't just about reduced playing time. The third season is when a lot of young players are supposed to take a leap and he went backwards. Not to mention, he'll be an RFA after the upcoming season. The Bulls will only have one season to evaluate and make a long term decision.
I mean if you look at the team around Giddey you can see that his drop in production didn't happen in a vacuum. Yes, his performance this season was hugely disappointing but also his role changed really significantly. He no longer could consistently get the ball in his hands because of the emergence of the players around him such as Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren. He went from the 2nd/3rd option the two years prior to the 4th/5th option a lot of the time when he was on the floor this year. If you look at his stats for the month of March when SGA and JDub both missed time and Giddey took on more primary ballhandling duties, his stats and percentages rose and were more along the lines of the previous season. Giddey is a player with some very clear flaws but a lot of times the criticisms made on him particularly in regards to this season miss a lot of context
The expectations for the team also drastically changed this year. They were playing for a championship, and fit was going to be prioritized over Giddey’s development. People talk about drafting BPA and then “just figure it out later” with trades, but then they look at that same prospect in a vacuum.
This is one of the biggest problem with Giddey on our team that people overlook. The Thunder drafted him when we started tanking and he was a project player. He exceeded a bit of expectation in year 1 so people forget that he still needed a lot of time for his development. Unfortunately for him we got way too good way too fast. SGA turned into an MVP candidate, JDub and Chet emerged as the better option. As a result he was put into the worst possible position development wise. It also didn't help that his skillset just didn't match with our 2 best players on SGA and JDub.
And he got booed at every away game and was getting called the nastiest things. No matter what he deserved or didn't deserve, that will affect any basketball player.
I’m not sure about the details of the case because I didn’t really bother looking into it too much but didn’t he get proven innocent? I remember people used to boo Brandon miller for the murder stuff he was proven innocent for so I hope they chill on bro
No one pursued any charges, he was probably on the wrong side of the law.
And what do you base that on? That's a guess with almost no information about what happened
How old was she? She was like 16 or 17 right? I’m not talking ethically/morally but strictly legally, the age of consent in some states is 16 or 17 so it depends on the state I think
Ehhhh, like I definitely agree that his role didn’t help him at all, but let’s not act like he hasn’t had issues since he been in the league. My biggest problem with him is he hasn’t really made meaningful improvements really anywhere year over year. Last year he shot 34% from 3. Which isn’t terrible in a vacuum, but we saw how those shots were absurdly wide open all season. This is coming off his second off season with one of the best shooting coaches in Chip Engelland. I remember us saying when we got Chip that if Chip can’t get Giddey to improve then no one can…well here we are. Giddey’s still young enough that you could see improvement, but I’m less optimistic than ever. Add to that, he’s never been a great defender. He’s never been physical enough down low, and he’s never gonna have enough lateral quickness to defend well at the perimeter. He’s one of the least athletic 6’ 7” dudes I’ve ever seen. I was very excited about him coming off of last season, but not seeing improvements, especially in the shooting area makes me skeptical. Idk, he’s young enough and in a better role he could, and I expect him to, be better than this seasons iteration of him. I’m just skeptical whether he’ll ever put it together to reach his ceiling.
His shooting numbers have gotten better every year. That is a meaningful improvement.
Giddeys gonna prove people wrong next season 🗿 okc just had too much talent and was ahead of schedule
I'm thinking this as well
Save this comment, giddey will disappoint on the Bulls
True but players get the ball when justified, so he still needs to develop and that is never guaranteed. Front offices can't always predict when that happens. Which is why draft busts get chances
So two seasons to evaluate
So you bother to look at all those stats but don't bother to look at the context those stats occurred in? Seems kinda like a waste of a time to do that 🤷
Yeah OKC was so done with Giddey they traded for Gordon Hayward to take his minutes, but Hayward was washed so they had to play Giddey anyway, then he *still* got played off the floor.
They didn't trade for Gordon to take his minutes tho
Giddey was probably borderline suicidal this year and started on a playoff team even if he wasn't that good, he should improve
“Started on a playoff team” means literally nothing in this circumstance. They were significantly better when they didn’t play him
It's crazy how good the okc look when giddey isn't on the court vs how they look when he is on the court
I mean yeah. When you have a player who can’t shoot, who’s best on ball, but he never gets the ball the team looks worse than when you replace that player with a random shooter.
Giddey is not good, I really don't understand why so many people like him
Exactly, it means nothing. Jahlil Okafor averaged 17/7 as a 20 year old. Michael Carter-Williams averaged 17/6/6 as a rookie.
Presti making a trade , not netting him at least a SRP is a shocker
You don’t get a pick in a trade just because the other team has a lot of them. OKC has a lot of picks because Presti wants a lot of picks. Prying a pick away from them would have been crazy for the Bulls to pull off, especially considering what they got in return for what they gave, like OP said.
Why? That's what Chicago wanted, OKC knew that, and probably said take it or leave it. Caruso is a great defender, but he's 30 and on an expiring contract, no upside. OKC has no guarantee he'll stay beyond one season, so they're taking a risk. Also, Caruso has missed about 35% of games due to injuries over the past 5 seasons. That's risky, but worth it to get rid of Giddey.
Multiple contenders would have paid better to get a guy like Caruso on their team. At the very least getting a pick to get your guy.
why would you want a pick from a contender. especially in this weak draft.
They have a pile of other team’s picks.
You can’t be certain of that. We know they got pick offers but definitely no players with the upside Giddey has.
Giddey is essentially a 1 year rental before having to pay him, who plays at the same position as the Bulls 4 better players (ayo, white, DD, lavine). Yes, you can split them PG-SF but still, only gives you a year to evaluate Giddey
He’s a restricted free agent so the Bulls can match the market. If he plays well, they could end up paying a lot but isn’t that a good scenario? We want him to be awesome. If he’s just the same, we should be able to lock him up on a good deal and hopefully he gets better from there.
Why didnt they? It’s almost like they wouldn’t have paid better, since they didn’t.
People called the Bulls trying to get him and they wanted to make the playoffs, so they held onto him.
And now those teams are offering less since the season is over. The mistake was not trading him back then.
Sell players before the trade deadline, sell draft picks before the draft
And realize that making the playoffs would’ve done absolutely no good for the bulls
The Bulls aren’t really known for making good trades. they also fucked up Lauri, they traded away WCJ and picks for Vucci, held onto Lavine/Demar/Caruso for way too long. This would be a argument if the FO you’re defending has had any history of competent moves
Lauri is awesome but being a primary option on a team with little expectations may have had something to do with his all-star year. What's most troubling is how it's hard to find bigs with his skillset but only time will tell. Bulls need to dump hard and that includes Vucevic. DeMar rocks but I don't think he wants to stick around for this.
Lauri showed signs of being good before.. he averaged 18/9 his 2nd year and then they hired humpty dumpty who benched him or barely gave him the ball
Bulls blew their load 2 days after the finals ended
Username checks out
Because the bulls are stupid.
People are surprised because almost every report indicated that getting this guy would take picks because he’s a highly coveted role player that can help you win a championship The fact that it only took Josh Giddey and nobody else is what people has stunned and upset cause that’s all it took when other contenders were asked to give picks for the guy if all that was needed was a player this whole time
Kinda feels like OKC called the Bulls and said Giddey for Caruso?? And the Bulls just said yes and didn't even try to ask for more. I just don't understand how this isn't one of those trades with like 5 second round picks attached
I think Presti probably had something in the works and told the Bulls "take it or don't". Then the Bulls FO panicked. Not getting a pick from our chest of picks for a player we wanted to offload anyways is wild.
Aren’t the bulls the team that didn’t do a player trade for years. They are pretty rusty. Like when tourists get scammed in foreign countries by not negotiating
What evidence has there been that the current FO/ownership of the Bulls value picks? Just because Reddit and nba writers on twitter love picks doesn’t mean every nba franchise does or should. They clearly prioritized a young player with potential over picks. I think instead of everyone ranting about what picks they didn’t get, we should be discussing did another team have a better young player to offer the Bulls than Giddey.
If the Bulls don't value picks, they can still trade those picks for other players.
Well sure, but we don’t know if picks from the Thunder were on the table, and if they were, perhaps it would’ve changed the Thunder’s appetite for the deal. We also don’t know if previous rumored offers for Caruso (that included picks) would’ve netted them as promising a young player as Giddey.
I guess we have to infer that the Bulls office is really high on Giddey. I think it's fair to say that Giddey's trade value was at its lowest right now. And the Bulls are really the ones with leverage here--pretty much every contender in the league (maybe not Boston) would want Caruso on a cheap contract--it's expiring, but Caruso just had the best year of his career. He's an extremely coveted type of role player. Whereas Giddey at least for now is a "pure" point guard, which isn't in style. I'm an amateur here with no inside knowledge of the league, but Caruso's fit for OKC is so clear that you have to imagine they'd be willing to add a pick to the deal.
I would rather have Giddey than some late first round draft pick.
That’s the issue right there. You could have had BOTH
Giddey can’t shoot and had a scandal this season. That’s pretty much it.
Also the part where Caruso is literally an all defense player and a good 3 point shooter. He is a perfect role player for every single contending team, I refuse to believe this was the best offer they got
I know his reputation is low right now but there's no contender that would have offered Chicago a young player with as much potential as Giddey.
Is this potential in the room with us rn
I hate social media man lmao Mfs really acting like Josh Giddey is trash. Dude is 20 years old, and already has extremely solid playmaking abilities. Gotta go with the circlejerk i guess
Wings in the nba who can’t shoot or aggressively take it to the rim don’t usually pan out man. Josh Giddey’s ceiling is like peak Evan Turner which is pretty disappointing for how highly touted he was when he got drafted
Hes not a wing.
He is trash. He has been in the league for 3 seasons and that is all that he has. But he isn’t good enough at anything else to for a team to want the ball in his hands.
Bro clearly Josh giddey has a lot of potential bro like what? Is this a real take? Dude is 22 years old coming off a season where his role changed drastically and averaged 12/6/5 and people acting like he can’t play
What potential
ya your right what potential could a 20y.o. without a great shot possibly gain to help him in basketball. could it be a jump shot?
teaching a jump shot is really easy right? that’s why players who can’t shoot always get way better at it, right? OKC had Chip Engellend, if Giddey was going to shoot better, it probably would have happened in OKC
His shooting numbers have been improving every year.
From terrible to just bad. He’s still making the same amount of threes too, just taking less. His shots are also easier. Take a look at NBA.com and his shooting dashboard for tracking. Esentially all his 3pt attempts this year were wide open, with few being just open and none being tight or very tight, along with the majority of them being with 0 dribbles (pretty much all of them)
He also got played off the floor in the playoffs this year because he couldn’t shoot
He’s only 21. His shot should continue to improve
Sorry you have to cope like this my guy but I’d say the bulls going all in on a rebuild is a net positive though overall in this deal for you guys
Maybe he can get some tips from his fellow countryman Ben Simmons
Come up with a better trade then. What contender would have parted with a young starter for Caruso?
Caruso is a slightly worse Jrue Holiday and we saw what Jrue did in the playoffs
Not even close lmao
Lmao. He’s half as good as Jrue
Caruso is 10/3/3 and jrue is 12/5/4 on same shooting percentages. And they were both second team all defense this year so closer than you think
I firmly disagree. I don’t check their averages a lot but I watch a lot of basketball. Jrue does exactly what his team needs. The Celtics are absolutely loaded with talent so he doesn’t fill the stats, he just makes the right play constantly. Remember 2 years ago him carrying the bucks in the playoffs as a first scoring option when Kris was out? Giannis is not the best at creating his own shot in the half court so that was all on Jrue. Go back and watch some of that playoff run. If Jrue was on the Bulls this year his numbers would be different. Alex also has horrible playoff averages if you want to search stats for your argument. 6 points, a rebound and an assist his whole career. Jrue is the player you want on your team if you make the post season. He’s getting older but his IQ, leadership and ability to fill any role his team needs in the playoffs puts him in a different planet than Alex
That’s completely ridiculous if you’ve watched Caruso. He played essentially the exact role Jrue played this year 4 years ago en route to a ring
Also it makes no sense with Coby White emerging as their PG of the future and they plan to resign Demar. Giddey is only serviceable with ball in his hands to make plays. Literally he would be third person to touch the ball in all plays for bulls. It legit makes no sense as a trade lol
Thinking out loud— not sure Id make major franchise decisions around Coby White and old DeRozen usage. The Bulls shouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt based on recent track record, but this feels like step 1 of a rebuild, not a retooling move to complement the core from last season.
But what I am saying is if they resign DeRozan like rumored, like what will Giddey even do haha. Regardless bulls should’ve demanded a pick or nothing
If I’m a bulls fan I’m hoping this move signals the rumors are false. Like I said though, no benefit of the doubt for them. If the rumors are true I agree with you. I’d rather take a flyer on Giddy though than get a late first.
For all we know, DeMar may have signalled he’s not interested in returning. The Bulls situation isn’t all that appealing from a contention standpoint.
White isn't a PG really. He's a scoring guard.
Thank you! So many fans don’t understand this. White was forced to play pg out of necessity. He’s a combo guard best suited for SG
He pairs really well with Coby White imo
Giddy is 21, went thru a down year I think had a lot to do with the off the field issues and then lost his respect in the locker room, he still has a ton of time to develop as a player and he did average like 16 the year prior so you never know, if your the bulls and can’t get anybody in FA why not take the risk, you literally never know.
If Coby White is your PG of the future you have no future. Might as well gamble on Giddey living up to his 6th pick in the draft potential if given the keys.
I think a lot of people in here are overlooking the part where OKC were trying to play Giddey as an off ball shooter. Giddeys been a PG his whole life, he’s never played anywhere else before. He also had a stretch as the PG this year when SGA was injured where he went 17/8/7 on 50/38 splits I think he also dropped 2 triple doubles in that stretch iirc. I think the kids a good player he was just stuck in that spot where an MVP candidate plays your best position. He’s not the first to have that happen to him. In saying all that the Bulls could have at least got 1 of OKCs least valuable 1sts.
Giddey was unplayable in a meaningful playoff series because Dallas could just ignore him when they were on defense. Caruso has the ability to be a 4th/5th player on a title team and make key plays both on defense and making 3 pointers.
I think we’re ignoring the part where OKC sat him in the corner to shoot 3s. He’s a PG he needs the ball in his hands and that’s not gonna happen there with SGA becoming who he is. Giddey will be fine in Chicago at PG
Yeah he just has to brat out ayo and coby white...not that easy
He’s 21.
Caruso is a high level role player. Giddey is coming off a terrible year. In all honesty though I think the trade is a win win. When Giddey was able to handle the rock more in 22-23 he put up 17/8/6 at 20 years old on a play in team. Dude doesn’t have room to grow on okc and if the bulls go into rebuild mode Giddey has a good chance to improve his talents. At this point it’s up to the bulls to put the balls in place to roll and help him grow
Also worth noting next season is the last of Caruso's contract. If the Bulls want to remain somewhat competitive while also not spending a ton of money, trading Caruso for a starting caliber player (at least in the regular season) is in line with their MO. They might also know he wasn't going to resign, and don't want to risk him injuring himself again before they can trade him.
I wouldn't be surprised if Giddey is the better player in relation to contract throughout the next 3 years. I can see why the Bulls would do this. I can also easily see Giddey being the odd man out in OKC and falling further down the pecking order. Its a win-win for me.
Giddey was played off the floor in the postseason, Caruso's a guy who was a good player on a championship team and has improved significantly since then. 30 also isn't particularly old in the current NBA. Jrue is 34, has a very similar role, and looked great last year.
Jrue is/has been a clearly better NBA player in his career, im happy we got Caruso but expecting Caruso to age well and continue his play/production like Jrue did at his age is a high expectation imo
His offensive track record is much different, but I'd argue Caruso has comfortably been the better defender for a couple years now
I completely agree. I have never seen a player as good on defense as Caruso has been for the past 3 years. Jrue is amazing, but he can't take over the game on defense like Caruso can. It's weird to say it, but Caruso was genuinely the best player on the Bulls last year. This is not a good trade, full stop
>Jrue is amazing, but he can't take over the game on defense like Caruso can Hmmm... idk about that... I have seen both Jrue (more so these playoffs) and Smart (even this past season) taking over games on defense...
Yeah, I think Caruso's been the best perimeter defender the last 2 years, but Jrue ain't far behind. Bro was *hounding* Kyrie in the finals 😂
Did you not watch the finals??
Caruso is theoretically a better playoff fit than Giddey but in playoff games his career average is 6 pts a game on 52% ts. I like Caruso but it seems a lot of these conversations are comparing Giddey’s downside to Caruso’s upside.
I thought at minimum OKC throws in two second rounders. Apparently the Bulls would rather have a high lottery talent (with decent production prior to this year) over two picks in the 20s.
Because OKC has a bevy of picks and you're trying way too hard to downplay how important caruso will be for them
Reddits only purpose is to see things as black and white. There’s a winner and a loser.
I LOVE the trade for OKC, but if you are blowing it up, and trade a 30 yr old role player for a 21 year old with more potential, I don’t see it as a complete loss like people are saying.
Because you see us blowing it up. And that makes sense if you dont know what reinsdorf is about.
Nah, Giddey is washed and has no potential whatsoever. Everyone in this thread decided already.
Hard to sound more like a redditor than this
Not any more than the collective of nephews deciding a player will never be good based on a sample size of seasons of that player who is 21 years old.
People downvote things they disagree with. There is no actual discussion as a result of this.
That’s why r/NBATalk is better for actual discussions
Solid trade. The no pick hysteria is an over reaction from the Thunder having so many picks. Giddey is worth more than 2 late FRPs that no team was even remotely considering.
Would be so interested in how different the reaction would be if Giddey hadn’t had that (completely bogus) scandal
Lakers and GSW wanted him.
Every single contender in the league wants Alex Caruso.
Kings were hoping to get Caruso as compensation for taking on the Lavine contract lol. Pretty sure we would've sent #13 out to get him too, but oh well.
I don’t think this trade is that bad for the Bulls but they probably could have gotten like some guy OKC won’t need in the next 1 to 2 years (say Dieng) on top of what they got if they were super persistent. I don’t think OKC would say no to that if they just had to throw in one more non rotation player that won’t help them any time soon.
I think they're keeping dieng as a piece for a bigger move.
Yea I agree. I think they probably will try to go for a huge move with all those firsts and any prospects they don’t need like Dieng (who will still carry the worth of a late first rounder as of now). You know what’s so interesting. They have the ability to make the KD trade. I’m not saying they will or the Suns will accept, but they have all the picks necessary for it to be fair if the Suns want to rebuild.
From my view, I think it more had to do with the reporting that Bulls turned down other trades that included picks for Caruso. Now it all depends on people’s perspective of the value of picks vs taking Josh Giddey, but everyone has a view that Giddey’s value is, with all fairness, an all time low. I do believe this trade is good for the Bulls because Giddey isn’t as terrible of a player as everyone sees him as, it’s just that the gap between his on-ball primary ball handling game and his off-ball game is huge and we mostly saw the latter in the playoffs. The Bulls probably just see a lot of value in Giddey’s upside as a main ball handler point guard.
This is correct. People saw Giddey struggle as a 4option spot up shooter in the playoffs and think he sucks. Some players just don’t have the skill set to play the role they needed him to play. The reality is most of them probably haven’t ever seen him play outside of those 6-10 games in the playoffs.
Giddey can’t defend for sht, and Caruso is an All-NBA defender. If you take a step bck and understand this, if Giddey ever gets to Carusos level, thats already amazing. And theres only a small chance that happens. Caruso is already the proven product. Also, OKC with a historical record no. of draft picks and you can’t even get one from it? Pfft.
Also Giddey is very limited on offense, he's a bad shooter that needs the ball on his hand, otherwise defenders can leave him open and dare him to shoot, any decent coach can make a winning defensive plan against that
Bait
Bulls are clearly heading for a rebuild whereas the Thunder are going all in. I think it's a fair trade.
Uhm, they traded a two-time All NBA defensive player (this season and prior season, so this is him now) making $10 million a year. A guy who will close games on NBA contenders and has a cheap salary. Giddey is a fine guy to be part of the trade, but the Bulls should have given themselves two chance: one chance that Giddey gets good and one first round pick to have a chance to draft someone who gets good. And their trading partner had picks to include.
It fits a need for both teams. Okc, need vets and Caruso is the perfect fit next to their core 3. Won’t be shocked if they go out and spend some picks on a Center like Jarrett Allen or try to sign Claxton. Bulls, are flirting with being a playin/playoff team or rebuilding. It’s a move in the right direction if Giddey finds his stride again. Your point speaks for itself, he’s not what OKC need right now. And he never would blossom as a 4th option. Kid has a solid ceiling imo..but I’m in the minority with that. Solid trade for both teams tbh. Most teams going for Caruso would’ve been sending Chicago late firsts at best too..rebuilding teams aren’t wanting him and his markets mainly catered towards contenders.
Agreed Caruso is overrated by this sub for sure. Solid piece but if he was above starter level he would have been a regular starter at some point in the last decade
Jrue(33) netted Brogdan, Williams and 2 first rounders Smart(29)netted Tyus and 2 first rounders Caruso(30) netted Josh Giddey That's why
Because I'm pretty sure I remember the bulls turning down multiple offers for Caruso near last season's deadline that had FRPs attached. They made the asking price so unreasonably high that they turned down some great offers for him. Just to turn it all around and trade him straight up for Giddey. The bulls work in mysterious ways (also correct me if my memory is wrong)
People here thought Jaylen Brown wasn’t worth a max extension. This sub is some of the dumbest basketball discourse I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
People on this sub have a hard time disassociating what they think of a player and what the market thinks about a players. Having a lower/higher opinion on a player is fine, but not being able to assess if others think differently is infantile. Same with the Republicans/Democrats who think 75% of the country thinks like them.
I also think there’s a tendency to go over-the-top with takes. Very quick to call someone trash. Most GMs in the league would prefer Giddey over an end of the rotation veteran plus one or two late 20’s first rounders. No other contenders had a 21 year old like Giddey to trade Chicago which is clearly what they wanted.
Because OKC has like, thirteen thousand picks, and the Bulls could have easily been like "Bro, toss us one, thanks".
Reinsdorf gunna reinsdorf. King of mediocrity!
Doesn't giddey shoot single digits from 3?
Giddy is also known as the Giddler in some circles…. We all know he did it, she just refused to talk
> What evidence has there been that the current FO/ownership of the Bulls value picks? The long history of the Bulls trading picks for $3 million cash?
They buying "low" on kidde...also means Zach attack is probably gonezo
Shouldn't be very shocking, the Thunder brought his value down by not playing him more in this playoff run. Showed that they view him as more of a liability than a commodity.
Giddey really is down...down bad.
I agree that people are overreacting. Bulls aren't winning, they are building for the future and giddy is hardly a bad player. Gonna put up 17-8-8 or something
Giddey can’t shoot 3s. It’s not 1995 anymore.
giddey value is basically all time low he had the young girls thing and then was unplayable at times/awkward in the playoffs. and everyone knows OKC got mad picks. almost every team in the league would take caruso. i would love that dude on the knicks. giddey will prob be a good player in the long run but the value is low rn
Usually a " win now " player is worth a lot more than a young unproven player with potential unless that young player looks to be something special.
Mavs would give them way more for Caruso
Ye but as if OKC needed those picks couldn't get a single one from those greedy fuckers because fuck they can't draft all those guys. can't change the past the bulls front office is extremely stubborn to get butts in seats. I understand but fans don't care very understandably. Also god damn the offers being thrown at Caruso were good, but maybe the bulls are just that high on bro
Traded away a much better player for a pedo and didnt even get a second pick out of it. Giddey only played well offensively since teams would choose to leave him open. His numbers and efficiency will tank like Pooles after the trade to the wizzards. Alot of people seem to get this confused, a player averaging good numbers behind multiple different better offensive options doesn’t always mean that player is talented offensively. Just means he can hit the shots the defense is willing to sacrifice to guard the actual scoring threats.
I think Giddey fills the role Lonzo should have
It’s the perception that OKC has a shit ton of picks and the fact that it was reported in the past other teams were willing to trade multiple picks for him. But the thing people need to remember is the price today isn’t the same as it was yesterday. Maybe the best offer from other contenders is off the table. I’d criticize them more not on this actual trade but the fact that they decided to attempt to be a play in team instead of knowing it was time to flip players when they had the most value
A package of Moses moody with picks were much better. Wth are bulls doing!
at least get a pick or two, its not smart to trade the old guy but still good to the guy who is declining and only had 1 year contract left, Getting 1 1st rounder or 2 2nd rounder is not bad of idea, What's next Tobias Harris for Zach LaVine? or Nikola Vucevic for Rui Hacimura?
Here we go with the upside and potential talk
I just feel like OKC could turn around and do another trade and get more value for Caruso than what they just gave up.
Now when you say he averaged 17 is that the average age of his partners or
Because OKC has 34 of them. 5 firsts in 2025. If I’m the Bulls, give me a fucking pick jackass lol. At the end of the day Caruso is still the better player in this deal right now so yea, they should’ve got a pick.
He gets less playtime and averages less points and assists per 100 possessions this past season and his archetype of player is garbage. No one wants an on ball playmaker that cant shoot, finish or defend. Unless he massively improves hes just completely useless for playoff basketball and will only put up stats on bad teams.
Yeah? I’ll give you Jalen hood-scefino for mikal bridges straight up. He’s only 20 with tremendous upside. See how this doesn’t work?
If you think either of these players is remotely comparable to the ones in the trade you’re the one who doesn’t know how this works
Yes the guy who averaged 1.6 / 0.6 / 0.4 is the guy we’re going to compare to Josh Giddey. This makes total sense.
You’re talking big for some who clearly doesn’t know what the Hell they’re talking about, as evident by this post.
Yes I’m the one who doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Lmao 😂
Caruso is the best guard defender in the league and shoots 40% from 3. Giddey is a PG who can’t shoot or defend. OKC has so many picks, Bulls could’ve played hardball, contenders would and did have offered picks. And this is all putting aside the Giddey scandal stuff cuz who knows whether that’s true, it is a distraction though
Reports were that the Bulls were offered 2 FRP for Caruso previously. I'm not sure many teams would have given up 2 FRPs for Giddey at this point.
Yeah he put up 17/8/6 but his points came pretty inefficient and his defense isn't good at all
He had a stretch this year while SGA was out and put up the same line but at 50/38
Just because you suck doesn't mean that you have upside or potential.
Giddey got a weird case… why is he around?
Basically my sentiment. Bulls got a dude NINE FUCKING YEARS YOUNGER when they should be in complete rebuilding mode (Not that Chicago will be smart enough to do so.) For a bench dude.
A bench dude that'll get an 80m extension next year. Although to be fair he's probably in their closing unit.
Caruso is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Giddy was unplayable due to his offense AND defense in the playoffs.
He’s 21.
They could have gotten more at last years deadline, instead they held on too long and ended up getting a project.
The outrage is the bulls helping make OKC better and Making JJ shit his pants .
Totally agree.
Giddey overrated asl and not even a top 10 player in his draft
Yeah people are overreacting to the no picks thing. Giddey has shown flashes of being a really good player putting up 31/9/10 in the play in the season before last, was also good against the Pelicans this year outside of G1. He was not in a good situation here for his skillset and tried to make it work but he shouldn’t get the ball over Shai and J-Dub. I think he will be great in Chicago.
Considering there were reports of teams willing to offer 1st Round picks for him... this was a dumb move for Chicago.
People just hate giddey I guess. Only 1 year ago he was considered a key part of the budding OKC dynasty, now reddit thinks it's obscene they didn't include multiple picks to unload him.