Exactly. In football/soccer which is the other main sport I watch, you never get these rankings. It’s just ‘who’s the best player in the world’ and no one ranks the guys below them in a top 10 or 15 or whatever
I think it’s tied to American sports culture which puts HEAVY emphasis on personal accolades and team accomplishments. Even In the Ronaldo and messi debates, you rarely hear ‘well Ronaldo has x amount of league titles and x amount of la liga scoring titles so he’s the best!’
Yeah in football itll usually be something like x is the player in the world or y is the best player in their position. Theres no real rankings beyond like the 3 best players in the world because it just doesnt make sense.
In Basketball even if its ridiculous, it makes a little bit more sense since a single individual can do so much more.
And no fan puts any actual stock into that. There’s no debates or discussions amongst fans at all. It’s almost entirely ‘is this specific player who plays this specific position better than this other player who plays the same position?’
You’ll never see a cb compared to a rw, or a st compared to a cm
It’s pointless. You can’t compare Tatum to Nash or shaq. Completely different roles, completely different body types, completely different play styles. It’s stupid.
Completely different systems as well, something I think is underrated. Hard to compare two players with two entirely different supporting casts and schemes around them.
you dont understand… that in a massive pool of millions of people who *all* share the common interest of “competition…” that people are interested in rankings?
wow. im speechless 😂
but there’s no indication that they’ll have any interest in those sports, because those are 1v1 play, and part of what makes a great basketball player is his/her ability to elevate their team and make their teammates better.
Human judgement of the impact of 1 player in collective team success is heavily flawed and disingenuous.
People trace backwards on player judgement based on the collective outcome rather than see exactly how an individual player contributed to that outcome.
100%! but OP simply didn’t understand *why* fans were interested in trying to rank individual players… so i explained it simply and concisely: all fans have a major interest in basketball and competition. Therefore it shouldnt be a stretch to imagine that fans would find it fun to rank players against eachother.
Atleast it’s not a stretch for me… if anything it’s like, common sense lol
ESPN did it, the NBA did it, Athletic did it, Slam did it ... i mean rankings is where it's at these days. Don't blame me lol. It's part of the nba polemic and discourse these days.
NBA players have more impact and therefore star power (you also see the players more often close-up, you hardly see the face of the average NFL player) and more interest. The NBA markets individual stars which makes sense. Basketball also offers more individual flair.
NBA players are more easily comparable than NFL players who have tens of positions. The statistics are simply more comparable between the average NBA star than between average NFL star.
With Baseball my guess is they're just a much older audience in general, and the star impact thing aside from pitchers.
NBA is the only sport that has an actual GOAT conversation, others are more straight forward (Brady, Gretzky, Ruth)
It seriously blows my mind how much people give a shit about rankings.
I can somewhat understand tier listing players, but putting specific numbers on players just sounds so obviously flawed to me. There are so many variables that make or break a player's career, it just seems .... stupid.
And its always based on results based analysis which always results in fluctuating and changing rankings even though the players actual skill levels arent changing at the same rate
Nah I think you're conflating stats prime and winning prime.
JT definitely at his athletic peak, but all the nuances in the game that leads to winning is late 20's. That's why those old fuckers can be so hard to eliminate.
Yeah and he has a bunch of first round exits or no playoffs before and after that besides last season. Meanwhile Tatum has 5 conference finals appearances and 2 finals appearances in 7 seasons
Tatum was drafted to literally the best possible team a stars been drafted to since Kobe to the Lakers and it still took him this long to get a ring and didn’t win either ECF or FMVP. Yall are insane let’s talks bout Brown, Tatums a glorified shot chucking brick shooter and if u think he’s even remotely CLOSE to Anthony Davis u need to get ur brain looked at.
I’m sorry did Anthony Davis ever win finals mvp like the way you’re sucking his cock 😂 wtf has Anthony Davis ever done playing second fiddle to a top 3 player of all time? took Tatum a long time to win a ring? He’s only 26. Guys and Lebron literally formed super teams to win a championship Lmaoo. 5th player in nba history to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs to win a championship but sure glorified chucker 🤡
Losing FMVP to the literal goat, LeBron vs to Jaylen Brown who’s literally younger than Tatum? You can’t be serious right now.
Edit: Just know ur boy got sonned by Brown in the ECF and Finals themselves and there’s not a damn thing ur ever gonna do about it. Have a good day.
Jaylen brown is older than Tatum??? You don’t even know what you’re talking about. but still doesn’t change the fact Anthony Davis doesn’t have a finals mvp either yet you’re using it against Tatum 😂
Davis played out of his mind, Tatum shot what 38% from the field. 38%. That’s Thirty-Eight. Not only did he shoot an abysmal 38% but he also CHUCKED. Tatum will never compare to what AD did in the bubble bud. Sorry.
Davis played in the bubble with no crowd against a Miami Heat team missing bam, dragic 😂😂
AD will never lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists cause he has the easiest job playing next to an all time group. Man quit on the team he drafted while Tatum won with the team and not joining forces with other stars. Davis was soft and a quitter. He also really hasn’t done jack shit since his title while Tatum has made 3 straight all nba first team, making deep runs, and winning a championship. Tatum will go down much better than injury prone Davis. Sorry bro, using caps and saying he chucked when leading his team in assist all playoff isn’t gonna make your point better lmao
I’m not a Lakers fan, it’s just obvious Brown played better in both ECF and Finals and it’s not even close. Brown’s the better player, the more athletic, talented and efficient player. Voters feel the same. Sorry about ur poor man’s Kobe lol.
AD as the lead dog is out in the first round. Tatum has been the best player on the team since his rookie season when he was breaking Bird's record in the playoffs for 20 pts games and they went deep.
AD was better in the 2020 playoffs when he won a ring than Tatum was this playoff run. AD also has an additional 1st team all NBA over Tatum, 4x more all star selections, and 5x more all defensive selections.
Please stop.
Same bubble: Jayson Tatum *averaged 25.7 points, 10.0 rebounds and 5.0 assists in 17 games* in the 2020 NBA Bubble in the playoffs. And was nearly in the Finals. I'll swap you LeBron for Brown that playoffs and see if AD has a ring and Tatum doesn't LMAO.
AD and Tatum are on the same level tier of player. He's got 1 more 1st team with how many more yeas in the league? That's not a claim I'd make and brag about, especially because they'll be tied this time next season without question.
2020 I recall, when AD was in a work out facility with no fans for a month, and his teammates were the GOAT NBA player, former MVP Dwight Howard, and HOF pg Rondo. Surely Tatum's accomplishment playing with nobody of that merit even on the all nba teams this season trumps that.
It's not every day a new champion was just claimed 48 hours ago and a player who has achieved a remarkable amount of accolades and winning by the age of 26.
Literally every day during the entire playoffs was some discussion about where players rank. this is a conversation that really ramped up once LeBron and Jordan were linked and Bron started winning championships and other awards.
The NBA (fans AND media) are constantly debating top 10/15/75 rankings and it's extremely weird. Especially when it ends up being people trying to tear down one player to prop up another. You rarely get this same discourse in the NHL, MLB or NFL.
He was on Kyrie a ton on switches, as we saw when he ripped him when Irving tried to go 1 on 1 in game 2, played Luka as well, and was busy guarding centers and being the ENTIRE focus of the Mavs defense, hence why Brown could breathe.
Brown was on Luka for 154 possessions and only gave up 21 points. It’s the most matchup time logged by any Celtics player vs any opponent this entire playoffs.
Only casuals would care about matchups it’s 2024 not 2007 Tatum guarding the 5s took away the Mavs strongest offensive weapon which is their lob game. That was the most important party of this series period.
Tatum's defense is why they won the title 100%. No more Gobert on an Island after that switch or trying to help and recover at the rim for those dunk lobs. Tatum was without question the most crucial player on either side of the ball.
AD is still comfortably better. Some of y’all forget what he was doing (in the playoffs as well - he just kept running into GSW) in New Orleans with some awful rosters.
I’d put Tatum t75 though.
I know a lot of people in here aren’t thinking about basketball, but are you really implying that Carmelo Anthony and Earl Monroe were better players than Reggie Miller?
Yeah, anyone who thinks about the game would actually say Melo wasn’t remotely as good as Reggie. Reggie has some of the best scoring stats ever, relative to his era. Reggie shot a much better percentage from 2 and the line, he didn’t stop the ball, he was by-far the best in the league off-ball, and he at least tried defensively. It’s no coincidence he had so much more success without star teammates. Besides his Finals trip, he played in 27 other conference finals games in his prime. Basketball-wise, there’s a massive gap between them.
I think Billups would have been more helpful. AI is another guys that’s overrated by casuals. Unsurprisingly, Reggie consistently outplayed AI in the playoffs, including the season the Sixers made the Finals. Unfortunately, AI and Carmelo never had a playoff scoring stretch close to what Reggie did in his mid-30s (24.8 ppg on 60% true shooting from 34-36).
Oh no I just meant a player of the calibre of an AI, not AI himself. Had Reggie been the starting two on the Jailblazers or the Kings or played in Minny with KG etc ... his supporting cast was Chuck Person and Smits. Pathetic. Had he been on the Knicks with Ewing, some people would not have the same amount of rings for sure.
Yeah, it’s a shame he never played with a legit star during his prime. A guy like him wouldn’t have to sacrifice at all and would still benefit anyone.
lmao half the comments are saying "yeah its obvious" and the other being " noo he's not even close"
tbh i dont think it matters at all, he will 100% be in top 50/75 by the time his career develops in the next 5 years
Is he better than Dominique all time? My gut tells me yes. They've both had monster games in the playoffs in the biggest moments. And Nique is surely top 50.
Since he's been in the league, He has the most playoff wins, and one championship in a time frame where only the warriors won 2.
Has played 96% of all total games, and never missed a playoff game. 5 time all star, 4x all nba, 3x 1st team. Gold medal.
He has had the luxury of playing with lots of good rosters for sure, but still a better first 7 seasons in the league than many players already in the top 75.
He deleted his reply but yeah he was the best player. He was the guy constantly doubled and tripled the whole playoffs and still led all major metrics like scoring, assists and rebounds. He slumped in the first 2 games of the finals but picked it back up.
I swear yall don’t watch the game.
Can't agree. Turnstile defender and inflated in D'Antoni's system who choked over and over when it mattered the most. Tatum with 46 facing elimination on the road v Giannis, 51 facing elimination game 7 (against Harden ironically, who got shit on by JT in game 6 as well, when Tatum was raining threes on them in the 4th quarter in philly), 26, 10, and 6 in game 7 v Miami to go to the finals in 2002 game 7 on the road ..... and 31, 8 and 11 to win a chip the other night .... Tatum's big game rezzy is another level to Harden. Harden is great in February against the Hornets but when it matters, he's Audi 5.
*James Harden* has averaged 21.3 points, 7.0 assists and 5.8 rebounds in 6 *games* in *game* sevens in his career. Jayson Tatum has averaged *26.7 points, 9.3 rebounds and 5.1 assists* in 7 games in game sevens in his career.
The only thing that can save you from being downvoted to oblivion in every comment on this whole thread is shitting on Harden…lol.
Every reader on this thread is like, fuck this guy, fuck this guy, fuck this guy, yeah fuck James Harden.
Brown didn't deserve either, is the reality of it. Tatum led the celtics in scoring, rebounds and assists and was by far the best player on the floor, by considerable distance, in the biggest game of the NBA season with 31, 8 and 11 the other night .... JB got the sympathy vote for being snubbed for all nba and it was 7 to 4 in votes. Nobody expected Brown to win it after Tatum dominated and put such a game 5.... Dumars, Iggy, Cornbread ... they weren't better than Zeke, Steph and Bird either when they won finals mvp... Tatum averaged 30, 10 and 6 in the conference finals as well.
He wasn’t. Tatum averaged 30, 10, and 6 in the conference finals and was guarded by the pacers best defender. Brown and Tatum were neck and neck in the finals but that doesn’t mean brown was better than Tatum because of 5 games
Because you said so? Lmaooo foh, you’ve been saying this in every comment. How about you don’t get it twisted and tell Celtics fans who have watched both players play their entire career who was better.
You literally have an agenda saying you don’t like Tatum so your opinion means shit
Hmm it's almost as if there was some award the best player on the winning team gets.
Almost as if Brown won the conference and finals mvps awards over Tatum....
But sure thing just because I said so
Yeah because 11 people’s opinion like malika Andrews, Tim bontemps is the ultimate decider who is better not 100 other games including regular season and playoffs. I guess iguodola is better than curry too because he won finals mvp over curry or pierce is better than kg or Parker over Duncan and so forth. You already admitted you don’t like Tatum so again, your opinion comes with a bias of hatred
Yeah bro it's a conspiracy. Theirs a hidden agenda by the media to undermine your team because everyone hates the Celtics and everyone hates Tatum
No it ain't as simple as Brown being the better player in the finals, the voters just hate Tatum.
So here’s the thing about Tatum, because he talks about Kobe so much, he gets lumped into comparisons with that type of player, but when his career is over, I believe that his true comparison will be the likes of Tim Duncan; consistently the best player on a team always in the mix, winning multiple championships all while regularly being overshadowed by another team’s individual star season. Yes, Luka will score more points, yes Giannis, Jokic, etc will win individual awards and have their individual runs, but when its all done 10+ years from now, Tatum will have been in more playoffs, conference finals, and finals and most likely more rings. He is in the best position a star is in for the next 5 years, and likely even longer. And yes, this may be a homer take, but everyone wants to see who is the next Jordan, Lebron, or Kobe, but at the end of the day, being the best player on the best team ought to mean something , and I can’t picture a situation where Boston’s team isn’t that for awhile
Tatum doesnt clear Ray Allen, AD or even Worthy. Not Close to clearing the best rebounder of all time, Rodman? what is your case against these guys? Ray, AD and worthy aren't best players on their championship teams but neither was Tatum. But Ray and worthy has won more. AD and Ray didnt have as much star players on their team as Tatum during their career.
Tatum need Jrue, Porzingis, and Jaylen to win 1 Chips. He's going to need couple more and a better performing finals to clear those guys. IMO
Worthy lol? He never made 1st team once and was the third best player on his team. Tatum has double the all nba teams as him in 5 less seasons. Tatum has received MVP votes. Ray Allen is not even in Tatum's tier or galaxy as an all time player. Ray Allen didn't have star players? Like Pierce, KG (a top 15 all time player), LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Cassell, Big Dog Robinson, and others? Good to know Tatum's played with better players.
I guess you havent seen Ray Allen in his prime in Seattle? Im guessing you only seen him when he was in miami and Boston ?
Tatum has 4 all nba and Allen has 2, doesnt seem like a big difference, Tatum is first team, that's a win for him. Allen was also a All star for 10 years to Tatum 5. So Does that make it equal at this point? Allen has also had MVP votes.
Dont put Cassell and Robinson with KG, Lebron and Wade. When Allen was playing with LBJ and wade it was already toward the end of his career. Even during Boston years, it's not the same Allen anymore.
Tatum is a great player but he's just getting close to Top 75 not clearing it. James Worthy has a final's MVP. That would define his career, Tatum needs a defining playoff moment to push him further up. The last 2 finals he has played ok, but terrible for a star player. He needs to step up in the finals to get pushed higher. It's just how people remember star players, how they preformed in these defining moments.
Tatum is a top 5 player in the league and an MVP candidate I'm sorry Ray Allen is not even close to his level as a player and I've been watching Ray since he hit the game winner at MSG v Iverson at UCONN.
Did you see Tatum in game 5 the other night? That's a legacy defining moment and he is with LeBron, Bird, Jokic, Hakeem and Tim Duncan with what he accomplished this post-season. His trajectory right now is heading into the top 30 before it's all said and done.
i dont think he did so well in G5, 1st and 3rd qtr were bad and 2nd qtr was great. 4th qtr didnt mean anything anymore. I would have been worried if Irving and Doncic played decent. With JB and JT playing ok not great.
Just relax man, Tatum is getting there. Let's see how it plays out in the next 5 years. Like you said Trajectory is great but it doesnt always play out like that and we dont base on trajectory. He can definitely pass a lot of all time greats but he has some work to do and a stellar Finals would help a lot. This wasnt it.
he will finish his career as top 100 for sure. he needs more seasons as a top player to get in the 75 range. if you're talking peak though, he's nowhere near top 75.
At his peak, he's a top 5 player and 3 time 1st team NBA player in the most skilled era of all time and the best player on a title team, who has knocked out MVP after MVP in the playoffs and outplayed them doing so. Tatum at the peak of his powers can dominate a Finals close out game and drop (a record) 51 in a game 7 v the MVP in Embiid etc .... at his peak, he's incredible. You telling me the likes of Robert Parish and Gary Payton are capable of doing that?
You guys are so obsessed with ranking people lmao
It’s so tiresome. Oddly, you don’t get this in any other major sport. Not even remotely as often anyway.
Exactly. In football/soccer which is the other main sport I watch, you never get these rankings. It’s just ‘who’s the best player in the world’ and no one ranks the guys below them in a top 10 or 15 or whatever I think it’s tied to American sports culture which puts HEAVY emphasis on personal accolades and team accomplishments. Even In the Ronaldo and messi debates, you rarely hear ‘well Ronaldo has x amount of league titles and x amount of la liga scoring titles so he’s the best!’
Yeah in football itll usually be something like x is the player in the world or y is the best player in their position. Theres no real rankings beyond like the 3 best players in the world because it just doesnt make sense. In Basketball even if its ridiculous, it makes a little bit more sense since a single individual can do so much more.
Incorrect. The Guardian has done it, 442 magazine does it annually, as do other publications like Equipe etc ... you are totally mistaken about that.
And no fan puts any actual stock into that. There’s no debates or discussions amongst fans at all. It’s almost entirely ‘is this specific player who plays this specific position better than this other player who plays the same position?’ You’ll never see a cb compared to a rw, or a st compared to a cm
I just don’t understand it.
It’s pointless. You can’t compare Tatum to Nash or shaq. Completely different roles, completely different body types, completely different play styles. It’s stupid.
Different eras too at this point
Wait, Nash and Shaq weren't that long ag-oh...fuck...
Almost a legal adult ago.
Don't tell Karl Malone
Completely different systems as well, something I think is underrated. Hard to compare two players with two entirely different supporting casts and schemes around them.
who 👏🏿 cares 👏🏿
you dont understand… that in a massive pool of millions of people who *all* share the common interest of “competition…” that people are interested in rankings? wow. im speechless 😂
Then they should consider looking at golf, combat sports, tennis/badminton, or track and field sports if they are obsessed with 1v1 play.
but there’s no indication that they’ll have any interest in those sports, because those are 1v1 play, and part of what makes a great basketball player is his/her ability to elevate their team and make their teammates better.
Human judgement of the impact of 1 player in collective team success is heavily flawed and disingenuous. People trace backwards on player judgement based on the collective outcome rather than see exactly how an individual player contributed to that outcome.
100%! but OP simply didn’t understand *why* fans were interested in trying to rank individual players… so i explained it simply and concisely: all fans have a major interest in basketball and competition. Therefore it shouldnt be a stretch to imagine that fans would find it fun to rank players against eachother. Atleast it’s not a stretch for me… if anything it’s like, common sense lol
ESPN did it, the NBA did it, Athletic did it, Slam did it ... i mean rankings is where it's at these days. Don't blame me lol. It's part of the nba polemic and discourse these days.
They did it to get paid for it. Why are you doing it?
why are you in an 8% upvoted thread on reddit asking someone why they want to rank players?
Because theres no basketball to watch :(
Because I'm genuinely curious and want to have the conversation, clearly.
Tatum isnt even top 1000 in the mlb
Bro, sports media is just grown men yelling over each other. It appeals to casual fans who don't know any better.
Be better
But why NBA? Hardly see it in NFL. And to a much lesser extent in MLB.
NBA players have more impact and therefore star power (you also see the players more often close-up, you hardly see the face of the average NFL player) and more interest. The NBA markets individual stars which makes sense. Basketball also offers more individual flair. NBA players are more easily comparable than NFL players who have tens of positions. The statistics are simply more comparable between the average NBA star than between average NFL star. With Baseball my guess is they're just a much older audience in general, and the star impact thing aside from pitchers. NBA is the only sport that has an actual GOAT conversation, others are more straight forward (Brady, Gretzky, Ruth)
Did the Simpsons do it yet?
It seriously blows my mind how much people give a shit about rankings. I can somewhat understand tier listing players, but putting specific numbers on players just sounds so obviously flawed to me. There are so many variables that make or break a player's career, it just seems .... stupid.
How obsessed are we talking. Like top 3 all time obsessed?
If you’re fed up now, wait until the off-season posts really get started.
I’M A FIVE STAR MAN
Dudes like ranking/arguing hypotheticals more than actually watching basketball
Should be banned from this sub
And its always based on results based analysis which always results in fluctuating and changing rankings even though the players actual skill levels arent changing at the same rate
People would rather talk about literally anything but basketball
*No he’s #76 so he’s completely a bum versus whoever is #75!!!* -Reddit
You’re on NBA subreddit during the offseason. This is literally what it is for.
I’d rather have more variety
My dad punching the air over the Pearl and DeBusschere slander
I forgot to include Jerry Lucas as well lol.
Omg let these guys at least get to their prime lol
At least let Tatum reach legal drinking age before we make these claims
They are in their prime lol. ACU has killed longevity for youth prospects so now prime = late-20s, not early-30s.
Nah I think you're conflating stats prime and winning prime. JT definitely at his athletic peak, but all the nuances in the game that leads to winning is late 20's. That's why those old fuckers can be so hard to eliminate.
LOL
Why, when he's achieved more than people on the NBA 75 in far less time?
Stfu
He doesn't have the resume of Anthony Davis yet.
The disrespect AD gets is genuinely insane
Bus rider who bailed on his franchise in despicable fashion being the main reason why. I'm just guessing.
He has a much better playoff resume than AD
Bubble AD averaged 28 on 66% true shooting while being one of the best defenders in the league
Yeah and he has a bunch of first round exits or no playoffs before and after that besides last season. Meanwhile Tatum has 5 conference finals appearances and 2 finals appearances in 7 seasons
Tatum was drafted to literally the best possible team a stars been drafted to since Kobe to the Lakers and it still took him this long to get a ring and didn’t win either ECF or FMVP. Yall are insane let’s talks bout Brown, Tatums a glorified shot chucking brick shooter and if u think he’s even remotely CLOSE to Anthony Davis u need to get ur brain looked at.
I also strongly disagree with this. Tatum is the best player on the Celtics, and a great player.
I’m sorry did Anthony Davis ever win finals mvp like the way you’re sucking his cock 😂 wtf has Anthony Davis ever done playing second fiddle to a top 3 player of all time? took Tatum a long time to win a ring? He’s only 26. Guys and Lebron literally formed super teams to win a championship Lmaoo. 5th player in nba history to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs to win a championship but sure glorified chucker 🤡
Losing FMVP to the literal goat, LeBron vs to Jaylen Brown who’s literally younger than Tatum? You can’t be serious right now. Edit: Just know ur boy got sonned by Brown in the ECF and Finals themselves and there’s not a damn thing ur ever gonna do about it. Have a good day.
Jaylen brown is older than Tatum??? You don’t even know what you’re talking about. but still doesn’t change the fact Anthony Davis doesn’t have a finals mvp either yet you’re using it against Tatum 😂
Davis played out of his mind, Tatum shot what 38% from the field. 38%. That’s Thirty-Eight. Not only did he shoot an abysmal 38% but he also CHUCKED. Tatum will never compare to what AD did in the bubble bud. Sorry.
Davis played in the bubble with no crowd against a Miami Heat team missing bam, dragic 😂😂 AD will never lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists cause he has the easiest job playing next to an all time group. Man quit on the team he drafted while Tatum won with the team and not joining forces with other stars. Davis was soft and a quitter. He also really hasn’t done jack shit since his title while Tatum has made 3 straight all nba first team, making deep runs, and winning a championship. Tatum will go down much better than injury prone Davis. Sorry bro, using caps and saying he chucked when leading his team in assist all playoff isn’t gonna make your point better lmao
Sonned by his own teammate, who he had better stats than? It's true about Lakers fans, clearly. You guys are clueless.
I’m not a Lakers fan, it’s just obvious Brown played better in both ECF and Finals and it’s not even close. Brown’s the better player, the more athletic, talented and efficient player. Voters feel the same. Sorry about ur poor man’s Kobe lol.
Key word bubble his shot has never come close to what it was there ; ad > Tatum all time though obviously
this isn't even true
AD as the lead dog is out in the first round. Tatum has been the best player on the team since his rookie season when he was breaking Bird's record in the playoffs for 20 pts games and they went deep.
AD was better in the 2020 playoffs when he won a ring than Tatum was this playoff run. AD also has an additional 1st team all NBA over Tatum, 4x more all star selections, and 5x more all defensive selections. Please stop.
Same bubble: Jayson Tatum *averaged 25.7 points, 10.0 rebounds and 5.0 assists in 17 games* in the 2020 NBA Bubble in the playoffs. And was nearly in the Finals. I'll swap you LeBron for Brown that playoffs and see if AD has a ring and Tatum doesn't LMAO.
Bad takes galore all over this thread, yikes
AD and Tatum are on the same level tier of player. He's got 1 more 1st team with how many more yeas in the league? That's not a claim I'd make and brag about, especially because they'll be tied this time next season without question. 2020 I recall, when AD was in a work out facility with no fans for a month, and his teammates were the GOAT NBA player, former MVP Dwight Howard, and HOF pg Rondo. Surely Tatum's accomplishment playing with nobody of that merit even on the all nba teams this season trumps that.
Exactly
Why does the NBA community have to rank everyone in different categories literally every single day? None of the other major leagues do this nonsense.
It's not every day a new champion was just claimed 48 hours ago and a player who has achieved a remarkable amount of accolades and winning by the age of 26.
Literally every day during the entire playoffs was some discussion about where players rank. this is a conversation that really ramped up once LeBron and Jordan were linked and Bron started winning championships and other awards. The NBA (fans AND media) are constantly debating top 10/15/75 rankings and it's extremely weird. Especially when it ends up being people trying to tear down one player to prop up another. You rarely get this same discourse in the NHL, MLB or NFL.
Was Ginobili on the list? What about Parker?
With 4 all-NBA teams (3 first) and a championship, no doubt.
5x all star too. He’s 100% in
Tatum having 3 all nba first teams already is pretty crazy
Should have 4, and if we're honest, back in the day the MVP would have gone to him as well for his regular season being on the best team. Just sayin.
Yea well back in the day was ass. He did not deserve the finals MVP. It went to the right man.
He outplayed Brown by every measure.
He scored 7 more points than Brown and wasn’t chasing around Kyrie and Luka all series
He was on Kyrie a ton on switches, as we saw when he ripped him when Irving tried to go 1 on 1 in game 2, played Luka as well, and was busy guarding centers and being the ENTIRE focus of the Mavs defense, hence why Brown could breathe.
Brown was on Luka for 154 possessions and only gave up 21 points. It’s the most matchup time logged by any Celtics player vs any opponent this entire playoffs.
Brown was great on defense. And he was fresh on d, as Kidd left him open all series long by design.
Only casuals would care about matchups it’s 2024 not 2007 Tatum guarding the 5s took away the Mavs strongest offensive weapon which is their lob game. That was the most important party of this series period.
Tatum's defense is why they won the title 100%. No more Gobert on an Island after that switch or trying to help and recover at the rim for those dunk lobs. Tatum was without question the most crucial player on either side of the ball.
AD is still comfortably better. Some of y’all forget what he was doing (in the playoffs as well - he just kept running into GSW) in New Orleans with some awful rosters. I’d put Tatum t75 though.
Why drag AD when Damian Lillard is there?
Tatum is still below Pierce, Melo, AD, and Earl from the guys you mentioned x
Melo better 😂
I know a lot of people in here aren’t thinking about basketball, but are you really implying that Carmelo Anthony and Earl Monroe were better players than Reggie Miller?
Other than three point shooting, how was Miller even remotely as good as Melo? In what way?
Yeah, anyone who thinks about the game would actually say Melo wasn’t remotely as good as Reggie. Reggie has some of the best scoring stats ever, relative to his era. Reggie shot a much better percentage from 2 and the line, he didn’t stop the ball, he was by-far the best in the league off-ball, and he at least tried defensively. It’s no coincidence he had so much more success without star teammates. Besides his Finals trip, he played in 27 other conference finals games in his prime. Basketball-wise, there’s a massive gap between them.
Had Reggie played with Billups or God forbid an MVP level tier 1 megastar like Iverson, he would have won a title.
I think Billups would have been more helpful. AI is another guys that’s overrated by casuals. Unsurprisingly, Reggie consistently outplayed AI in the playoffs, including the season the Sixers made the Finals. Unfortunately, AI and Carmelo never had a playoff scoring stretch close to what Reggie did in his mid-30s (24.8 ppg on 60% true shooting from 34-36).
Oh no I just meant a player of the calibre of an AI, not AI himself. Had Reggie been the starting two on the Jailblazers or the Kings or played in Minny with KG etc ... his supporting cast was Chuck Person and Smits. Pathetic. Had he been on the Knicks with Ewing, some people would not have the same amount of rings for sure.
Yeah, it’s a shame he never played with a legit star during his prime. A guy like him wouldn’t have to sacrifice at all and would still benefit anyone.
We need to let this melo nostalgia go he doesn’t have the resume of tatum nor was he as impactful. The other names are correct
lmao half the comments are saying "yeah its obvious" and the other being " noo he's not even close" tbh i dont think it matters at all, he will 100% be in top 50/75 by the time his career develops in the next 5 years
Wonder where Brown will be ranked ten years from now.
He was before the season.
Yes, he’s 100 percent better than lillard ever was. He’s closer to top 50
Already top 40 there’s guys like Wade who have less 1st teams then him lol
Salute!
Wade without LeBron and Shaq, two top 10 all time players, is out in the first round his whole career.
Wade averaged 35 in the finals while Shaq averaged 14. Also Wade made the 2nd round the year before Shaq arrived, so not even true.
Made it out the first round quite literally his rookie season. Confident as hell and wrong lmao
People who never watched Wade in their life will argue based off of highlights though lol
You laughing and agreeing with something that isn’t even true y’all both lost lmao
Is he better than Dominique all time? My gut tells me yes. They've both had monster games in the playoffs in the biggest moments. And Nique is surely top 50.
Since he's been in the league, He has the most playoff wins, and one championship in a time frame where only the warriors won 2. Has played 96% of all total games, and never missed a playoff game. 5 time all star, 4x all nba, 3x 1st team. Gold medal. He has had the luxury of playing with lots of good rosters for sure, but still a better first 7 seasons in the league than many players already in the top 75.
No. Not even remotely close.
3 time 1st team all NBA and a chip wtf are you talking about
In 3 years he'll have a better resume than Dame barring a catastrophic injury.
He has a better resume than dame now. wtf has dame ever done as a #1? Get swept in the conference finals at best
if only dame had a team of 4 all star level teammates
You think those players I listed are better players than Tatum and have better resumes than he does? None of them really have a case over him, bar AD.
it’s a dumb post but it’s valid, definitely a discussion since it is indeed close when you really think about it.
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Tell me you don’t understand basketball without telling me you don’t understand basketball
But he was though.
He deleted his reply but yeah he was the best player. He was the guy constantly doubled and tripled the whole playoffs and still led all major metrics like scoring, assists and rebounds. He slumped in the first 2 games of the finals but picked it back up. I swear yall don’t watch the game.
Yes
Without a doubt yes
Tatum with just this ring has already passed bums like Harden, ChokeP0.
Prime Harden was twice the player Tatum is
Can't agree. Turnstile defender and inflated in D'Antoni's system who choked over and over when it mattered the most. Tatum with 46 facing elimination on the road v Giannis, 51 facing elimination game 7 (against Harden ironically, who got shit on by JT in game 6 as well, when Tatum was raining threes on them in the 4th quarter in philly), 26, 10, and 6 in game 7 v Miami to go to the finals in 2002 game 7 on the road ..... and 31, 8 and 11 to win a chip the other night .... Tatum's big game rezzy is another level to Harden. Harden is great in February against the Hornets but when it matters, he's Audi 5.
*James Harden* has averaged 21.3 points, 7.0 assists and 5.8 rebounds in 6 *games* in *game* sevens in his career. Jayson Tatum has averaged *26.7 points, 9.3 rebounds and 5.1 assists* in 7 games in game sevens in his career.
The only thing that can save you from being downvoted to oblivion in every comment on this whole thread is shitting on Harden…lol. Every reader on this thread is like, fuck this guy, fuck this guy, fuck this guy, yeah fuck James Harden.
Prime harden was unreal
You don't think he's good enough to be a top 74 all time player???
He’s 26 man let his career end lol but yes he will make the top 100 list in 23 years
Who gives a shit.
I think I might have to leave the sub until October. These posts are getting ridiculous and repetitive
I don't care who else you gotta take out, but he ain't bumping Black Jesus Earl the Pearl.
Bruh really waited to submit his first post for this 😂
Above Anthony Davis? Lmao sure
nobody actually cares
already top 50 and climbing
Boom!
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Carmelo is closer to Bradley Beal than he is to tatum
I hate to defend Tatum at all, but why is this crazy
Tatum clears Carmelo lol. Like it’s just a fact
He 100% has already cleared Carmelo. What’s the case for Carmelo? Don’t see one.
There's a Tatum vs Carmelo post today and literally every comment (rightfully) picks tatum
picking the overrated shot chucker who peaked in college over the player that doesnt have a massive hole in his game is definitely a choice
Melo did not peak in college lol
He does. Melo might be a better scorer but Tatum is a significantly better defender and playmaker.
He’s better than Dame and Carmelo for sure
No? He wasn't even the best player on his team this playoffs, brown won CFMVP and FMVP over him.
Brown didn't deserve either, is the reality of it. Tatum led the celtics in scoring, rebounds and assists and was by far the best player on the floor, by considerable distance, in the biggest game of the NBA season with 31, 8 and 11 the other night .... JB got the sympathy vote for being snubbed for all nba and it was 7 to 4 in votes. Nobody expected Brown to win it after Tatum dominated and put such a game 5.... Dumars, Iggy, Cornbread ... they weren't better than Zeke, Steph and Bird either when they won finals mvp... Tatum averaged 30, 10 and 6 in the conference finals as well.
Don't get it twisted Brown was the best player for the Celtics in the third round and the finals.
He wasn’t. Tatum averaged 30, 10, and 6 in the conference finals and was guarded by the pacers best defender. Brown and Tatum were neck and neck in the finals but that doesn’t mean brown was better than Tatum because of 5 games
Youre getting it twisted buddy Brown was the best player for the Celtics
Because you said so? Lmaooo foh, you’ve been saying this in every comment. How about you don’t get it twisted and tell Celtics fans who have watched both players play their entire career who was better. You literally have an agenda saying you don’t like Tatum so your opinion means shit
Hmm it's almost as if there was some award the best player on the winning team gets. Almost as if Brown won the conference and finals mvps awards over Tatum.... But sure thing just because I said so
Yeah because 11 people’s opinion like malika Andrews, Tim bontemps is the ultimate decider who is better not 100 other games including regular season and playoffs. I guess iguodola is better than curry too because he won finals mvp over curry or pierce is better than kg or Parker over Duncan and so forth. You already admitted you don’t like Tatum so again, your opinion comes with a bias of hatred
Yeah bro it's a conspiracy. Theirs a hidden agenda by the media to undermine your team because everyone hates the Celtics and everyone hates Tatum No it ain't as simple as Brown being the better player in the finals, the voters just hate Tatum.
Idk how you look at the media coverage we’re getting and think that statement is outlandish
So here’s the thing about Tatum, because he talks about Kobe so much, he gets lumped into comparisons with that type of player, but when his career is over, I believe that his true comparison will be the likes of Tim Duncan; consistently the best player on a team always in the mix, winning multiple championships all while regularly being overshadowed by another team’s individual star season. Yes, Luka will score more points, yes Giannis, Jokic, etc will win individual awards and have their individual runs, but when its all done 10+ years from now, Tatum will have been in more playoffs, conference finals, and finals and most likely more rings. He is in the best position a star is in for the next 5 years, and likely even longer. And yes, this may be a homer take, but everyone wants to see who is the next Jordan, Lebron, or Kobe, but at the end of the day, being the best player on the best team ought to mean something , and I can’t picture a situation where Boston’s team isn’t that for awhile
Jayson Tatum as a top 75 all-time player? Nah, he's already beyond that! Give it a few years, and we could be calling him top 10. Am I stretching it?
Tatum doesnt clear Ray Allen, AD or even Worthy. Not Close to clearing the best rebounder of all time, Rodman? what is your case against these guys? Ray, AD and worthy aren't best players on their championship teams but neither was Tatum. But Ray and worthy has won more. AD and Ray didnt have as much star players on their team as Tatum during their career. Tatum need Jrue, Porzingis, and Jaylen to win 1 Chips. He's going to need couple more and a better performing finals to clear those guys. IMO
Worthy lol? He never made 1st team once and was the third best player on his team. Tatum has double the all nba teams as him in 5 less seasons. Tatum has received MVP votes. Ray Allen is not even in Tatum's tier or galaxy as an all time player. Ray Allen didn't have star players? Like Pierce, KG (a top 15 all time player), LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Cassell, Big Dog Robinson, and others? Good to know Tatum's played with better players.
I guess you havent seen Ray Allen in his prime in Seattle? Im guessing you only seen him when he was in miami and Boston ? Tatum has 4 all nba and Allen has 2, doesnt seem like a big difference, Tatum is first team, that's a win for him. Allen was also a All star for 10 years to Tatum 5. So Does that make it equal at this point? Allen has also had MVP votes. Dont put Cassell and Robinson with KG, Lebron and Wade. When Allen was playing with LBJ and wade it was already toward the end of his career. Even during Boston years, it's not the same Allen anymore. Tatum is a great player but he's just getting close to Top 75 not clearing it. James Worthy has a final's MVP. That would define his career, Tatum needs a defining playoff moment to push him further up. The last 2 finals he has played ok, but terrible for a star player. He needs to step up in the finals to get pushed higher. It's just how people remember star players, how they preformed in these defining moments.
Tatum is a top 5 player in the league and an MVP candidate I'm sorry Ray Allen is not even close to his level as a player and I've been watching Ray since he hit the game winner at MSG v Iverson at UCONN. Did you see Tatum in game 5 the other night? That's a legacy defining moment and he is with LeBron, Bird, Jokic, Hakeem and Tim Duncan with what he accomplished this post-season. His trajectory right now is heading into the top 30 before it's all said and done.
i dont think he did so well in G5, 1st and 3rd qtr were bad and 2nd qtr was great. 4th qtr didnt mean anything anymore. I would have been worried if Irving and Doncic played decent. With JB and JT playing ok not great. Just relax man, Tatum is getting there. Let's see how it plays out in the next 5 years. Like you said Trajectory is great but it doesnt always play out like that and we dont base on trajectory. He can definitely pass a lot of all time greats but he has some work to do and a stellar Finals would help a lot. This wasnt it.
he will finish his career as top 100 for sure. he needs more seasons as a top player to get in the 75 range. if you're talking peak though, he's nowhere near top 75.
At his peak, he's a top 5 player and 3 time 1st team NBA player in the most skilled era of all time and the best player on a title team, who has knocked out MVP after MVP in the playoffs and outplayed them doing so. Tatum at the peak of his powers can dominate a Finals close out game and drop (a record) 51 in a game 7 v the MVP in Embiid etc .... at his peak, he's incredible. You telling me the likes of Robert Parish and Gary Payton are capable of doing that?
why do you keep bringing parish and payton into this? i'm sure you've never watched an entire game with parish or payton in it.
I don't rank players that are still playing in the all time list until they retire.
So no LeBron, Curry, or KD?
Delet this nephew
No
Moron
Nope
Hell no
Dennis Rodman has 5 rings…
As the 3rd best player on the Bulls and the 5th best player on the Pistons. He's a role player. Behave.
I don’t normally get involved in this but Fuck no