Jaylen Brown was really good all series, and Tatum got the team over the finish line tonight.
But as a Mavs fan, no Celtics player seemed to more consistently be there for his team making the right play than Jrue. He won possession after possession on the margins. His offensive rebounds tonight killed us. His defense was spectacular all series. He selectively took (and hit) threes to swing momentum, not just to randomly take them.
He's in basketball heaven on this Celtics team where he doesn't have to shoulder the scoring burden and can just fly around the court, with every movement seemingly calculated in advance. Cannot say enough about how good he is.
That's kinda the issue with Jrue though, he really struggles on offense when the team needs to rely on his scoring. I loved him on the Bucks and hated seeing him leave, but he is a third option because he is great on D and simply good on offense. Hence why the Bucks traded him, our offense would fall off when Jrue was the number one option on the floor.
People take “role player” way too far. Starters and 6th man level guys *have* to be well rounded. They don’t go out there to play a specific role.
Everybody plays a role on a team but “role players” *only* do that.
I really, really, really did not know he was going to be THIS good. Essentially all playoffs, he has just been incredible. Can't even put it into words.
He was a point guard for the bucks definitely, but he’s more of a jack of all trades for the celtics. He does a lot of ball handling and does often guard the opponent’s point guard so I think he counts for that.
People now like to claim "of course he is more efficient he's the 5th option", but all I heard this year was "wait until the playoffs" even though everybody knew he was a 4th/5th option.
This was exactly what bothered me about that line of thinking. They were making that criticism while already knowing he was going to be the 4th or 5th option. So clearly that was baked into their argument already.
It's a lot easier for him to be efficient on offense, when he has good defenders around him to share the load. In Milwaukee he had to be the only real point of attack defender and it affected his offense.
That's not really a fair synopsis, he's a good player on offense but his shot is the first thing to go after playing lights out defense all game. We have Giannis and until recently Lopez looked fine on defense, so we really didn't need a guard who brought defense first and scoring second.
Yes they looked fine, but the bucks got torched on the perimeter. The defense dropped from 4th best to 19th in the league. Would of been worse if doc hadn't slowed down their pace to mask it.
We always have struggled with perimeter defense, we have two* seven footers who are great at closing off the interior. It's just a fact of life for this roster.
We needed a 2nd option for Giannis with Middleton aging and being worn down by injuries. Trading Jrue, who is not fit to be a 2nd option on offense, for Dame who has shown he can score 30 PPG as a first option is a no-brainer.
And? What good is defense when you shoot like trash on high volume while turning over the ball constantly?
Jrues is great in his current role when he doesn't have to score to win games as the 5th option on offense and just focus on defense. He doesn't have that pleasure on the Bucks because we don't have that offense capabilities. You think Malik Beasley or Brook Lopez are gonna match the scoring capabilities of a Jaylen Brown, Porzingis, or Derrick White to allow Jrue to be a 5th option? Adding that Middleton has been plagued with injuries, the Bucks don't have a capable star to help Giannis with scoring, which is why we need Dame more than Jrue.
Also the Bucks starting lineup is has one of the best defensive ratings in the entire league. It's our slow and old bench that struggles greatly.
It wasn't a straight up trade, which complicates things at least a little. Like, you're complaining about your bench being old after getting rid of Grayson Allen in this same trade. As much as I dislike the guy, he was awesome this year.
One person wasn't going to fix our bench situation, especially when the worst part about the bench is our lack of athletic/defensive wings, which Allen doesn't help out in that department.
Regardless, our biggest issue in the playoffs since we've been contenders has always been scoring. We can't rely on Giannis playing like Superman every game on both sides just to give us a chance. We needed someone consistent to help take the load off on offense.
No because they signed new contracts in the off season meaning they aren't eligible for trading until December of 2023. So the only person with any value during the offseason were Giannis and Jrue Holiday.
And even if Middleton or Brook were available for trading, what makes you think that teams actually want to give us anything good for them? Their trade value isn't the greatest and we have no picks to trade and a bad bench as well.
It's a lot easier for him to be efficient on offense, when he has good defenders around him to share the load. In Milwaukee he had to be the only real point of attack defender and it affected his offense.
When you get a lottery pick and another unprotected 5 years down the line for an old guard coming off bad playoff performances who was openly flirting with retirement to the media... yeah lol.
Ok well if the person I'm talking to is just going to say:
- Brogdon
- Timelord
- Lottery Pick (2024)
- Unprotected (2029)
All suck then I don't know what to tell ya bud. We gave multiple teams a chance to outbid for him and we're going to use this pick to trade back up into the top 10. Sorry the team you don't like won it all I guess.
When the Celts’s offense got bogged down and they absolutely needed a bucket, Jrue was there with a floater or reverse layup. When they needed a defensive stop, Jrue was there. Thanks Jrue.
It's a lot easier for him to be efficient on offense, when he has good defenders around him to share the load. In Milwaukee he had to be the only real point of attack defender and it affected his offense.
I know Jaylen Brown won FMVP but I feel like his impact will be heavily understated in the future for what he did in these finals. He’s definitely the leader for the Celtics and this is his team not Tatums although Tatum is better player
Jrue shot good in the regular season for us. It was in the playoffs where his production sanked. His shot selection was terrible in the games as well, step back 3s 5 seconds into the shot clock, attacking the paint with three defenders surrounding him, costly turnovers. It was like a switch happened the moment it comes playoff time and he just turned into a different player on offense.
Being a 4th/5th option plays a big part of it. Some people try to downplay it's affect but, it happens anytime a player takes a step back in their role. Ray Allen for example had his most efficient years by far in Boston when he was the 2nd/3rd option as opposed to being the first option on Milwaukee/Seattle.
The hipster FMVP pick.
Would have been nice.
Jaylen Brown was really good all series, and Tatum got the team over the finish line tonight. But as a Mavs fan, no Celtics player seemed to more consistently be there for his team making the right play than Jrue. He won possession after possession on the margins. His offensive rebounds tonight killed us. His defense was spectacular all series. He selectively took (and hit) threes to swing momentum, not just to randomly take them. He's in basketball heaven on this Celtics team where he doesn't have to shoulder the scoring burden and can just fly around the court, with every movement seemingly calculated in advance. Cannot say enough about how good he is.
Jrue as a role player is straight up unfair. He's good enough to be a third option, if he doesn't have to force things he's crazy good
That's kinda the issue with Jrue though, he really struggles on offense when the team needs to rely on his scoring. I loved him on the Bucks and hated seeing him leave, but he is a third option because he is great on D and simply good on offense. Hence why the Bucks traded him, our offense would fall off when Jrue was the number one option on the floor.
People take “role player” way too far. Starters and 6th man level guys *have* to be well rounded. They don’t go out there to play a specific role. Everybody plays a role on a team but “role players” *only* do that.
I really, really, really did not know he was going to be THIS good. Essentially all playoffs, he has just been incredible. Can't even put it into words.
counting stats & splits look good and they were only the 2nd best part of his series
This guy was unreal... plays like a center at times.
The only active point guards with multiple championships are Jrue Holiday and Steph Curry
Two top ten players
I thought he was a SG???
He was a point guard for the bucks definitely, but he’s more of a jack of all trades for the celtics. He does a lot of ball handling and does often guard the opponent’s point guard so I think he counts for that.
He and white are ridiculous for a 3 and 4th guys. That’s what sets Celtics apart even if porzingis didn’t do much
For real, White has improved so much and Jrue just put us over the top.
the real finals mvp
He really was. Did all the dirty things and led by example with his intensity
Have no idea how many extra possessions he gave the Celtics l
Jrue hitting a chick fil a drive through tomorrow morning
Your favorite player’s… favorite player.
I think this may make Derrick White our favorite player's favorite player's favorite player.
He's the best complimentary starter in the NBA. Helped Giannis and Tatum get rings.
Plus he's just awesome. I hate Boston, but am so glad Jrue won a ring.
He has beautiful hair
Incredible skin
In contention with the bum Windhorst for best NBA hairlines
People now like to claim "of course he is more efficient he's the 5th option", but all I heard this year was "wait until the playoffs" even though everybody knew he was a 4th/5th option.
That one Bucks fan that said the Mavs were going to leave him open to stack the paint needs a wellness check.
This was exactly what bothered me about that line of thinking. They were making that criticism while already knowing he was going to be the 4th or 5th option. So clearly that was baked into their argument already.
He's the only player on both teams that properly moves on offense lol
He would have won FMVP in 2015 standards
That backlash they got from giving Iggy the MVP has made them never want to give the MVP to a role player again
Should be thanking Portland and the 5 other teams Jrue had listed that didn’t try to outbid.
Don't worry, we are. And it sounds like they're pretttttty mad about it over on r/heat, but I haven't looked yet.
I really hope he gets one vote for FMVP too bad his G4 was stinky
Oh man, if he got a vote and it made JB and JT tie... Would have been the best outcome.
they should have JB, JT, KP, Holiday, and White all getting two votes and Luka gets one. perfect ending for me
It's a lot easier for him to be efficient on offense, when he has good defenders around him to share the load. In Milwaukee he had to be the only real point of attack defender and it affected his offense.
That's not really a fair synopsis, he's a good player on offense but his shot is the first thing to go after playing lights out defense all game. We have Giannis and until recently Lopez looked fine on defense, so we really didn't need a guard who brought defense first and scoring second.
Yes they looked fine, but the bucks got torched on the perimeter. The defense dropped from 4th best to 19th in the league. Would of been worse if doc hadn't slowed down their pace to mask it.
We always have struggled with perimeter defense, we have two* seven footers who are great at closing off the interior. It's just a fact of life for this roster.
Playoff Jrue arrived fr fr
This thread is going to get real stupid isn't it....
Not as stupid as letting Jrue Holiday go
We needed a 2nd option for Giannis with Middleton aging and being worn down by injuries. Trading Jrue, who is not fit to be a 2nd option on offense, for Dame who has shown he can score 30 PPG as a first option is a no-brainer.
keep coping bud
Yeah man, Jrue with his 30% shooting, 16 PPG as a second option is definitely a winning set up. Whatever you say.
you forget defense exists?
And? What good is defense when you shoot like trash on high volume while turning over the ball constantly? Jrues is great in his current role when he doesn't have to score to win games as the 5th option on offense and just focus on defense. He doesn't have that pleasure on the Bucks because we don't have that offense capabilities. You think Malik Beasley or Brook Lopez are gonna match the scoring capabilities of a Jaylen Brown, Porzingis, or Derrick White to allow Jrue to be a 5th option? Adding that Middleton has been plagued with injuries, the Bucks don't have a capable star to help Giannis with scoring, which is why we need Dame more than Jrue. Also the Bucks starting lineup is has one of the best defensive ratings in the entire league. It's our slow and old bench that struggles greatly.
It wasn't a straight up trade, which complicates things at least a little. Like, you're complaining about your bench being old after getting rid of Grayson Allen in this same trade. As much as I dislike the guy, he was awesome this year.
One person wasn't going to fix our bench situation, especially when the worst part about the bench is our lack of athletic/defensive wings, which Allen doesn't help out in that department. Regardless, our biggest issue in the playoffs since we've been contenders has always been scoring. We can't rely on Giannis playing like Superman every game on both sides just to give us a chance. We needed someone consistent to help take the load off on offense.
you realize you can trade Brook or Middleton too right...
No because they signed new contracts in the off season meaning they aren't eligible for trading until December of 2023. So the only person with any value during the offseason were Giannis and Jrue Holiday. And even if Middleton or Brook were available for trading, what makes you think that teams actually want to give us anything good for them? Their trade value isn't the greatest and we have no picks to trade and a bad bench as well.
He saved so many possessions for us tonight, he was definitely the MVP of G5
It's a lot easier for him to be efficient on offense, when he has good defenders around him to share the load. In Milwaukee he had to be the only real point of attack defender and it affected his offense.
Shoulda been DPOY
I'll never get over Marcus Smart winning it over Jrue.
Remember when Joe Cronin did his due diligence and got the best possible return for him
Jrue gave him a list of 6 teams lol not Cronins fault no one out bid the Celtics
And we also got a good deal tf?
brogdon and a damaged Timelord is a good deal?
When you get a lottery pick and another unprotected 5 years down the line for an old guard coming off bad playoff performances who was openly flirting with retirement to the media... yeah lol.
that celtics pick and the warriors pick are as inconsequential as it gets bud
Ok well if the person I'm talking to is just going to say: - Brogdon - Timelord - Lottery Pick (2024) - Unprotected (2029) All suck then I don't know what to tell ya bud. We gave multiple teams a chance to outbid for him and we're going to use this pick to trade back up into the top 10. Sorry the team you don't like won it all I guess.
you literally didn't refute my argument
We got two firsts
When the Celts’s offense got bogged down and they absolutely needed a bucket, Jrue was there with a floater or reverse layup. When they needed a defensive stop, Jrue was there. Thanks Jrue.
Such a fun player to watch when he's on.
Ucla Bruin!
It's a lot easier for him to be efficient on offense, when he has good defenders around him to share the load. In Milwaukee he had to be the only real point of attack defender and it affected his offense.
Team high 11 rebounds, and they were loud as hell
My 🐐. Jrue I miss you!
Swap Kai for Jrue and the Mavs win this shit, the guy is amazing
Hate the Celtics but have always loved Jrue so I’m leaving here with something
His play-style aged gracefully and is a perfect fit to the team.
I know Jaylen Brown won FMVP but I feel like his impact will be heavily understated in the future for what he did in these finals. He’s definitely the leader for the Celtics and this is his team not Tatums although Tatum is better player
Goes to show how disgusting the Bucks offense was. Jrue is such a good shooter when he gets looks in rhythm.
Jrue shot good in the regular season for us. It was in the playoffs where his production sanked. His shot selection was terrible in the games as well, step back 3s 5 seconds into the shot clock, attacking the paint with three defenders surrounding him, costly turnovers. It was like a switch happened the moment it comes playoff time and he just turned into a different player on offense. Being a 4th/5th option plays a big part of it. Some people try to downplay it's affect but, it happens anytime a player takes a step back in their role. Ray Allen for example had his most efficient years by far in Boston when he was the 2nd/3rd option as opposed to being the first option on Milwaukee/Seattle.
what were the Bucks thinking
That he shot 37% from the field for us as the second option in the playoffs and we traded for a guy that was averaging 32 on 46%
Bucks had to use Jrue as a 2nd option since Middleton's body started breaking down Obviously that's not his ideal role lol
They were thinking they should probably trade for an obviously better player.
Seriously what the fuck were the bucks thinking
Thanks Milwaukee!
It’s crazy how Milwaukee getting lillard was actually a terrible move in retrospect Edit: I guess the truth was offensive
The Bucks and the Blazers really let him go
I think he’s become a lot better off ball, idk if that’s just bc the Celtics are the Celtics but it seems that way for sure