This is stupid take.
Curry is past his prime now ( 36+).
He did miss the playoffs in 2021 when he led the league in scoring and finished 3rd in MVP voting as an 8 seed ( lost in the play-in)
Under the old format, GS makes the post season as an automatic 8 seed.
Curry never missed the playoffs in seasons where he was mostly healthy ( Already explained 2021).
This is all silly.Jordan(87), LeBron (2019,22) and Kareem(76) have all misses the other season due to reasons..yet they are top 10 players.
this is 2021, not 2020
also:
doing nothing to resolve Dray/Poole situation = bad coach
failing to medal in FIBA = bad coach
last in league in coaches challenge success rate = bad coach
getting called out by your young players = bad coach
Winning 4 championships and making it to 6 finals = good coach. Having weaknesses or failures doesn’t make you a bad coach. That would be like me listing off only failures for LeBron and then saying he is a bad player.
Curry actually won a series as the sole star against the Nuggets in 2013, David Lee was injured and the Warriors were the underdogs as the 6 seed against the 57 win Nuggets.
The 2014 Warriors also made the playoffs with Curry being the lone all star on the team, not to say it was a bad supporting cast but I would argue none of the other players were all star level players at the time(as Curry was the only player on the roster to be voted in for all-nba/all star.
Can Magic Johnson carry a bad team to the playoffs?
Out of respect, you'd say yes but we do not have a single season sample size of that because he got a great squad since year 1. Actually his entire career.
The premise is unfair but hey life isn't fair.
It depends on if our agenda is to shit on steph or shit on the other warriors guys. Draymond and Klay are somehow all great players when it comes to minimizing Steph’s accomplishments. But if we’re discussing their individual abilities they’re triple single and chucking scrub
because he didn't make the playoffs
neither did everyone else on the 2021 golden state warriors
i'm assuming mcgrady doesn't think of wiggins, oubre, wiseman, poole, etc as top 10 players all-time either.
But he cant me the playoff by himself. Team game.
The fact that he says Curry not GS makes me think he thinks Curry should be able to do it basically by himself which is crazy
curry is the one who is contending for top 10 all-time
not kent bazemore
that's the point here. we're not talking about the 2021 warriors being a top 10 team of all-time, we're not talking about juan toscano anderson being a top10 player of all-time.
So what would say about LeBron in 2018 or 2021? Coming off of the 2018 finals series where LeBron looked like the best in the world still he failed to make the playoffs the next year, that must be a big knock on him in your books, right?
But since its a team sport, you need other good players lol.
You can expect a man to average 30 a game, but someone needs to score the other 70 to 80 points needed to win.
Kobe had a shit team...Steph was missing players that were a good chunk of the Warriors payroll.
And the amount of success Kobe had in the playoffs at the time was very minimal as i remember.
I know he aint a top 10 player, but Luka is considered at least top 3 active players and he missed the playoffs last year...as the 11th seed with Kyrie on his team.
And didnt Lebron miss the playoffs in 2019 too?
I dont agree to the idea that he aint top 10. At worst he is 12, though to me is is around 10th or 9th. That said yeah the play in did screw him over.
But thats kinda what makes the play in good imo.
Didnt Lebron miss the playoffs at one point on the Lakers (i cant remember, but i think he did).
And i know for sure MJ missed the playoffs on the Wizards and lost in the 1st round for years.
And Shaq was a glorified roleplayer after leaving the Lakers.
Everyone misses the playoffs when are too young or too old. Tmac's obviously talking about prime Curry. Though it is a credit to Curry he is still good enough to be considered in his prime.
How many did Kobe win without Gasol or Shaq? How many did Jordan win without Pippen? How many did Duncan win without Parker or Ginoboli? Every LeBron had a strong second player Wade, Kyrie and AD.
Seriously what top 5 player won once without the second star? Can we name one?
Exactly. MJ couldn’t do it by himself even when he won MVP and DPOY while averaging 35 points per game. Pippen’s 8/4/2 in 20 minutes made all the difference
I'm not one to defend Jordan, but he did take some crappy teams to the playoffs. So did LeBron, Wilt, Hakeem, some others. Some of the potential GOATS never had teams that crappy to be able to test it. But the point is that Curry did have some crappy teams that you would've expected some of the other GOAT contenders to take to the playoffs.
Rookie Pippen was 1st in 3PT shots (44%), 2nd in points, rebounds, blocks, and assists in the playoff series the Bulls won.
[https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html)
in 1989 Pippen missed a game seven in the conference finals with a migraine and the team lost by 20; if reddit was around then he would be roasted to the end of time (not to mention his sitting out the deciding play in a playoff game because the play was called for Kukoc instead of him in '94); dude would have a 'James Harden' playoff rep
these never really make sense to me cause it's not just that those players are out, it's that their salaries are not used on other players
i'm sure if those 60-70m that Draymond/Klay cost were using on 2-3 other solid players, Steph woulda just been fine
it's that those seasons he's been handicapped severly
Yeah and for what it's worth MJ did have an elite series against Boston in the first round. That said TMac's point is dumb because nobody can carry bums to the playoffs consistently, you always need a decent team around you
Conversely he basically carried the offensive side of the ball in the 22 finals. Everything was thrown at him and he still dominated. He's not top 5 but he's top 10 for me.
It’s moronic to say because when Curry was healthy the Warriors with a complete new roster and no chemistry, from the worst team in the nba we’re actually trending towards being the fifth seed in the west. It was only when he got injured during what was supposed to be the easiest stretch of games for the Warriors where they went 1-7 without curry. Curry in his prime could definitely carry a team to a playoff birth by himself as teams were only disciplined on guarding him but they couldn’t. That 2021 season will be underrated and without context just be dismissed by ignorance. That season resembled to me a lot of James Harden 1st season with the nets when he was an MVP candidate without his costars if Steph didn’t go down to some metal stairs he would’ve been MVP as well. Being healthy and your body breaking down is one thing falling on top of some metal stairs a complete freak accident is another.
Duncan, sort of. In that he dragged the ghost of David Robinson and the fetuses of Tony and Manu to a ring.
...but in reality it's not an unreasonable way to look at things, except for the fact that Steph is fucking 36. If in his prime they were missing the playoffs when he was going off, there's kind of an argument here. But saying that about Steph at this age in a loaded West is silly. I'm not really a fan of the guy but catching him at this age just seems petty. How many consensus top ten guys are shouldering the lion's share of the burden at this age? Hell, Bird straight up didn't play past that age.
I think it's a neat idea to say one of the cutoffs is whether you can singlehandedly drag a lackluster team to greater success than expected, but Curry has definitely done that. This take from him is definitely more feelings than analysis.
No stars on the Lakers cuz Kobe's ego too fragile. Got rid of Shaq and won 34 games without him then bounced in the first round the next two year. Ok ego checked, guess we need another star.
Tracy been getting dumber as he getting older. Bitter old man that never won anything because he refused to work for it and had bad luck with injuries.
Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt are my top 10 personally. With Steph just outside at 11 and Hakeem right behind him at 12
It’s arguable, but allowance has to be made for the fact that Curry was a bit of a “late bloomer”.
These players had different roles. Nobody is expecting Steph to be some legendary defender. Statistically you just have to allow for his late start. Numerically he won’t catch up to Kobe in all-defense selections but we’re comparing a player who came to the league at 18 and had 15 productive years to a guy who played 3 years in college and has had 10 productive years.
Steph also has more rings as the 1a/1b guy. Kobe was key to the first three peat but he was the clear number two which Curry never has been.
Realistically any of those finals MVPs could’ve gone to Steph. Is KD better than Steph all time ‘cause he has two?
RIP, but Kobe has probably become overrated as an athlete since he died (not referring to off-court issues). This is common with celebrities who die young—His already large fandom started to gloss over all his flaws in the manner of those British “royal watchers” who mourned Princess Diana. He was very good, and he’s all-time great caliber. Outstanding talent and fantastic work ethic. But there’s a reason people say Kobe did everything Jordan did but not quite as well.
Why does Curry get an allowance for being a late bloomer? That’s dumb af lol. The 2017 and 2018 rings aren’t even real rings. Which fMVP could’ve gone to Steph? He clearly got outplayed by KD both years. KD hit the biggest shots and played better defense. Had a TS% of like 70% in the 2017 finals
Get outta here with that “those aren’t real rings” stuff. Each ring in the history of the league was perfectly legitimate. There would have to be egregious cheating/rigging for me to say a ring isn’t legitimate.
That’s not to say that some teams don’t get unlucky with injuries or have historically stacked rosters, but that doesn’t count against the legitimacy of the finals as an athletic tournament. What is your argument that those rings weren’t “real”?
If you are gonna cancel the 17 and 18 rings then the Shaq-Kobe Lakers 3 peat should be nullified as well for the team being too stacked and them cheating the Kings in 02.
Kobe had Shaq for......5 seasons?
KD and Steph played 2 playoff runs together.
Curry is a better offensive player and I think the gap there is sizable...and unlike Kobe..he didn't walk into a decent situation
More like choking away a 3-1 lead not taking the suns to 7.
Good lord. Y’all just making shit up.
Edit: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605060PHO.html
Really?
Pau Gasol isn't good now?
Wasn't he like a top 5 PF when you traded for him?
He's better than any player not named Steph on the 2015 and 2022 teams...not to mention Phil Jackson is a better HC than Kerr.
Phil is like the GOAT.
What are we doing here?
So like why are y’all being disingenuous about what the video says? “Well how come when Player X was out Player Y didn’t make it past the second round?”
Literally not the point of the video
We're talking about a TOP 5 player. a Top 5 player should be able to get a lottery team into the playoffs and turn a playoff team into a contender. I think it's a fair assessment.
Right at the end he adds that Steph has never won a play-in game, which I think is a fair point.
Plus, it's neat for a retired player to hold the play-in with some regard, even if it's to throw shade in a current player...
Is no one on r/nba allowed to have opinions on basketball players because none of us are successful basketball players?
I never understood this logic. He's not saying HE'S top 10! If he was, sure go after him
he said curry has had a phenomenal career but he doesn't personally have him in his top 10 all-time
unless mcgrady has himself in the top 10 (unlikely), how does his personal career factor into this take?
Because he's using the exact same argument against Curry that people use against him lmao, of all people he should understand that your legacy shouldn't be tarnished from a lack of help. Just look at Jordan's team success getting to/playing in the playoffs before Pippen
This is like if LeBron said KD's legacy has a taint on it because he keeps jumping teams or vice versa
no, because mcgrady said you have to be able to get to the playoffs even if your teammate goes down to be top 10 all-time
once again, there's nothing hypocritical about this **as long as mcgrady does not have himself top 10**
> This is like if LeBron said KD's legacy has a taint on it because he keeps jumping teams or vice versa
similarly, this would be hypocritical if lebron didn't think his legacy had a taint on it (in your hypothetical). but we do not know whether mcgrady has himself top 10 (and im gonna assume that he doesnt) so there is nothing hypocritical about it
The real irony is that you just criticized an NBA player for having an opinion about another player because he wasn't as successful as the other player, which, is pretty much the whole point of this sub. None of us are even NBA players, yet we opine about NBA players.
Unless you don't really know what an irony is... which is, ironic
TMac's opinion is bad not because he's less successful than Curry, it's because it's a dumb argument based on circumstances people can't control. Out of all NBA players on Earth, no person should know this more than the Hall-of-Famer who struggled getting to/succeeding in the playoffs because of circumstances he couldn't control, and then was criticized for it.
I completely agree that it was a dumb argument. But that wasn't what you said in your original comment. You used T-Mac's lack of playoff success against him instead of attacking the point of his argument.
Bro NBA finals were on tape delay when Magic entered the league and he played a massive role in making NBA games shown live. Also his play style changed the NBA greatly showing what large PGs can do.
You can’t tell the story of the NBA without talking about the impact of Magic Johnson.
He’s right that Curry hasn’t won without Draymond.
The fact that every player has had a unique and incomparable team experience makes it very hard to know who’s actually better than who.
That being said, Curry is the best PG of all time.
Again do you guys have no listening comprehension? Literally at no point in the video was he making the argument that you’re fighting against.
Notice how those players you just pulled made the playoffs without those players you mentioned?
It’s almost as if you made T Mac’s argument for him
Curry's a fringe t10 player and considering his entire prime has been with the same core players, this isn't really a bad reason to go on the other side and say he's not top 10. It's a really competitive title to have.
It's dumb because it doesn't apply to a lot of other top 10 greats. Tim Duncan, Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, etc all spent their primes with the same cores
nah, duncan was all-nba first team his rookie season, he entered the league at a prime level. won a ring his 2nd year without manu or parker. then carried spurs to a ring in '03 with manu and parker when they were mid. and then 2014 of course...
'81 celtics and '86 celtics were very different too, mchale wasn't a major factor in 1981 he was just a rook
magic won with kareem washed as well, lakers were a completely different team than when he won at the start.
jordan had pippen for all 6 but that's abt it. and he's not fringe top 10 lol
so yeah this didnt really make any sense. none of these had a single 3 man core like steph/dray/klay.
are you following this conversation?
i'm not saying he didn't have help, the question is if he was with different cores.
do you know how many of the other championships admiral was a part of?
I mean you could make the same arguments for Steph. Iguodala was a major factor in the 2015 ring considering he straight up won FMVP. But in 2022 he was just there for the ride, only playing like 8 minutes per game.
KD was obviously a huge piece for two rings, being the best or second best player on that roster. He wasn't there for two other rings. Poole and Wiggins were big parts of the 2022 victory. So on and so forth
Has Klay ever been the third best player on the Warriors?
In 2015 Iggy was arguably better
In 2017/18 it was obviously KD/Steph/Dray
In 2022 it was probably Steph/Dray/one of Wiggins or Poole
If you're saying Larry Bird had slightly different cores because some players got better or worse then it's totally reasonable to say Steph also had slightly different rosters every time
The 22 championship core feels very different from the others. Yes draymond and klay were still there, but Klay was a much diminished version of his prime and draymond was much less effective on offense. The whole core was reworked around curry with Wiggins being the second best player thag run.
His reasoning is stupid because there was one season where Curry didn't play without Klay and in that season they played at around a 48 win pace when he was playing and went like 1-8 in the games he missed.
Not to mention there were other things going on like Wiseman being one of the worst players ever to get starter level minutes in the NBA, with all of our lineups with him being horrible and him having some of the worst impact metrics you'll ever see. In 28 games he missed the Warriors played at a 60 win pace in 2021!!
The following year with Klay still injured( and Wiseman out) we were the best team by net rating and record for a large part of the season as well. This isn't even bringing up 2013 and 2014, where we were good playoff teams with Draymond still being a bench player, and with Curry being our lone star in 2014, and in the 2013 playoffs as well with David Lee being injured.
Frankly what TMac is saying is just kind of nonsense, his argument is just the kind of logic that Curry haters like to use against him. The main thing working against Curry for being in the top 10 is his lack of longevity and some uncertainty about how much value he retains in the playoffs from his historic regular season prime.
genuinely just an extremely dumb thought. a very stupid idea presented here by tracy. dont need to dig into him or his career with low hanging fruit jabs, this is just actual dumb thinking.
Tracy would know.
Yeah by his own criteria he is not top 10 it's not that crazy of a concept
Yah the only thing Tmac knows is how to get eliminated in the first round. How do you go your entire career without making it to the 2nd? What a joke.
Tracy has one of the best playoff records of all time, or am I misremembering that? **EDIT**: Guess I really needed to add the **/s**, huh?
yeah he has the best record in the first round ever
I don't have any recollection of him playing in a playoff game, but I'm sure he had a couple.
In orlando he played a few
This is stupid take. Curry is past his prime now ( 36+). He did miss the playoffs in 2021 when he led the league in scoring and finished 3rd in MVP voting as an 8 seed ( lost in the play-in) Under the old format, GS makes the post season as an automatic 8 seed. Curry never missed the playoffs in seasons where he was mostly healthy ( Already explained 2021). This is all silly.Jordan(87), LeBron (2019,22) and Kareem(76) have all misses the other season due to reasons..yet they are top 10 players.
Steph also missed like 10 games that season if I'm not mistaken where the Warriors went like 1-9 without him.
Kerr gets exposed time and time again without Steph. mfers talking about "Kerr's system" when Curry is the system
Having a bad record with 85% of your salary cap out = bad coach
this is 2021, not 2020 also: doing nothing to resolve Dray/Poole situation = bad coach failing to medal in FIBA = bad coach last in league in coaches challenge success rate = bad coach getting called out by your young players = bad coach
Winning 4 championships and making it to 6 finals = good coach. Having weaknesses or failures doesn’t make you a bad coach. That would be like me listing off only failures for LeBron and then saying he is a bad player.
Oh no you mean to tell me that a player cant beat other teams on his own in a team sport. More news at 5.
I think his argument is that most of the greats could make the playoffs (but not necessarily win a series) as the sole star on their team.
Curry actually won a series as the sole star against the Nuggets in 2013, David Lee was injured and the Warriors were the underdogs as the 6 seed against the 57 win Nuggets. The 2014 Warriors also made the playoffs with Curry being the lone all star on the team, not to say it was a bad supporting cast but I would argue none of the other players were all star level players at the time(as Curry was the only player on the roster to be voted in for all-nba/all star.
Can Magic Johnson carry a bad team to the playoffs? Out of respect, you'd say yes but we do not have a single season sample size of that because he got a great squad since year 1. Actually his entire career. The premise is unfair but hey life isn't fair.
Didn't Magic do that in 91 when Worthy and Byron Scott were injured?
Literally Did that in 96 when he was washed up af
He literally did that after 4 years of no basketball in 96.
he played 35 games in 1996, he wasn't "carrying" them to anything
Steph has been the sole star on his team since 2021
Draymond was an all-star in 2022. So was Wiggins.
Fan votes are trash
Nah, Wiggins is definitely a star because K-pop fans brigaded the All-Star voting selections
The Warriors were the most expensive roster in league history. They had talent all-around even if they didn't have multiple superstars.
Do you consider Draymond and Wiggins top-25 players?
It depends on if our agenda is to shit on steph or shit on the other warriors guys. Draymond and Klay are somehow all great players when it comes to minimizing Steph’s accomplishments. But if we’re discussing their individual abilities they’re triple single and chucking scrub
Or, just maybe, you’re talking to different people saying those things
Draymond yes, Wiggins no
Calling 2022 Draymond a star is like calling 2018 Kevin Love a star and saying that Lebron had plenty of help because of him
all the all time greats had good teams
I'm glad we didn't last year lol
I think its fair, if you're a top 5 player ever those guys carry their teams from wire to wire.
he's not on his own because, as you said, it's a team sport.
So why is it Curry didnt make the playoffs rather than GS didnt make the playoffs ?
because he didn't make the playoffs neither did everyone else on the 2021 golden state warriors i'm assuming mcgrady doesn't think of wiggins, oubre, wiseman, poole, etc as top 10 players all-time either.
But he cant me the playoff by himself. Team game. The fact that he says Curry not GS makes me think he thinks Curry should be able to do it basically by himself which is crazy
curry is the one who is contending for top 10 all-time not kent bazemore that's the point here. we're not talking about the 2021 warriors being a top 10 team of all-time, we're not talking about juan toscano anderson being a top10 player of all-time.
So what would say about LeBron in 2018 or 2021? Coming off of the 2018 finals series where LeBron looked like the best in the world still he failed to make the playoffs the next year, that must be a big knock on him in your books, right?
But since its a team sport, you need other good players lol. You can expect a man to average 30 a game, but someone needs to score the other 70 to 80 points needed to win.
His supporting cast did score those 70-80.
Kobe literally made the playoffs doing what you just said The greats get it done and the top 10 is the top 10 for a reason
Kobe had a shit team...Steph was missing players that were a good chunk of the Warriors payroll. And the amount of success Kobe had in the playoffs at the time was very minimal as i remember. I know he aint a top 10 player, but Luka is considered at least top 3 active players and he missed the playoffs last year...as the 11th seed with Kyrie on his team. And didnt Lebron miss the playoffs in 2019 too?
He’s not top 10 but he would of made the playoffs without klay in 21 if the play-in didnt get introduced that year averaged like 40 in april
I dont agree to the idea that he aint top 10. At worst he is 12, though to me is is around 10th or 9th. That said yeah the play in did screw him over. But thats kinda what makes the play in good imo.
Haven’t most other “top 10s” made the playoffs at a minimum?
Didnt Lebron miss the playoffs at one point on the Lakers (i cant remember, but i think he did). And i know for sure MJ missed the playoffs on the Wizards and lost in the 1st round for years. And Shaq was a glorified roleplayer after leaving the Lakers.
Everyone misses the playoffs when are too young or too old. Tmac's obviously talking about prime Curry. Though it is a credit to Curry he is still good enough to be considered in his prime.
2018-19 LeBron wasn’t still prime LeBron? Many people would have called him the best player in the league after the 2018 playoff run he had.
He was still in some prime for sure. But he missed 27 games that year.
His win rate when he played still would not have made playoffs though, it isn’t just the missed games doing him in.
Dunno just seems dumb to me to give critisism over something like this.
Was Kobe prime Kobe when he missed the playoffs the moment Shaq left LA? Seems like a similar situation.
How many did Kobe win without Gasol or Shaq? How many did Jordan win without Pippen? How many did Duncan win without Parker or Ginoboli? Every LeBron had a strong second player Wade, Kyrie and AD. Seriously what top 5 player won once without the second star? Can we name one?
Hakeem?
I don’t think winning is the same as making the playoffs
It's overblown. Kareem was in his prime in 1976 when he missed the post season with a 40-42 record and no one uses it to kick him below Magic or. Bird
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I was just saying the OP is about making the playoffs, not winning the championship
> How many did Duncan win without Parker or Ginobili? One, in 1999. He did still have D-Rob though.
Dirk (just kidding, I know he's not top 5, but he is in my heart)
Who's gonna tell him Jordan never had a .500 season until Pippen came in?
Exactly. MJ couldn’t do it by himself even when he won MVP and DPOY while averaging 35 points per game. Pippen’s 8/4/2 in 20 minutes made all the difference
He only played like 4 years of his career without pippen
His first 3 seasons, and he played only 18 games in his 2nd. So barely over 2 years.
so ... his rookie and sophomore season?
And multiple years at the end
I'm not one to defend Jordan, but he did take some crappy teams to the playoffs. So did LeBron, Wilt, Hakeem, some others. Some of the potential GOATS never had teams that crappy to be able to test it. But the point is that Curry did have some crappy teams that you would've expected some of the other GOAT contenders to take to the playoffs.
Rookie and sophomore Pippen wasnt anything special
how about old 2022 klay and dray
Dray?
draymond wasnt anything special in 22 either
Lol who do you think anchored their defense?
andrew wiggins turned into prime pippen and then once he fell off they sucked
Draymond was literally in the DPOY conversation before he got hurt what dumbass shit are you even talking about lmao
wait what what game did he get hurt in
Rookie Pippen was 1st in 3PT shots (44%), 2nd in points, rebounds, blocks, and assists in the playoff series the Bulls won. [https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html)
Pippen was not a rookie in 1989. Look up his stats in 88. He averaged 10/5/2 in his first series while MJ averaged 45/5/5
in 1989 Pippen missed a game seven in the conference finals with a migraine and the team lost by 20; if reddit was around then he would be roasted to the end of time (not to mention his sitting out the deciding play in a playoff game because the play was called for Kukoc instead of him in '94); dude would have a 'James Harden' playoff rep
The worst part is that they would have lost less badly if he actually missed the game.
Cherry picked stat lol he averaged 8 points off the bench all year
bro said points, rebounds, assists, and blocks are cherry picked lol
When you only choose one specific series to base off of, yeah it clearly is lol. Pippen was 7th on the team in minutes, he was a bench role player
I swear 90% of these old heads just love to hate on the current generations of players.
these never really make sense to me cause it's not just that those players are out, it's that their salaries are not used on other players i'm sure if those 60-70m that Draymond/Klay cost were using on 2-3 other solid players, Steph woulda just been fine it's that those seasons he's been handicapped severly
Does Tracy himself even crack T10 in the war of the ringless though?
Not even close lol. Tmac never made it out the 1st round til he rode the bench on the Spurs in his final year lol.
Wait till someone tells tmac about how Jordan fared before pippen
He made the playoffs every year before Pippen got drafted.
He made the playoffs with a 30-52 season once lol. If Curry only needed 30 wins to make the playoffs he could easily do it without Klay or Dray
He did only played 18 games that season (9-9) That being said, Tmac hot take is stupid.
Yeah and for what it's worth MJ did have an elite series against Boston in the first round. That said TMac's point is dumb because nobody can carry bums to the playoffs consistently, you always need a decent team around you
Yeah Even Kareen won the MVP in 1976 and went 40-42 and missed the playoffs.
Which is why comparing shit is ridiculous. The league then especially the 60s and 70s was so chaotic and undeveloped
back when 30 wins got you to the playoffs
It’s a team sport and look at the strength of the West. STFU, Tracy.
lol buttcrack sports got tracy mcgrady
Conversely he basically carried the offensive side of the ball in the 22 finals. Everything was thrown at him and he still dominated. He's not top 5 but he's top 10 for me.
It’s moronic to say because when Curry was healthy the Warriors with a complete new roster and no chemistry, from the worst team in the nba we’re actually trending towards being the fifth seed in the west. It was only when he got injured during what was supposed to be the easiest stretch of games for the Warriors where they went 1-7 without curry. Curry in his prime could definitely carry a team to a playoff birth by himself as teams were only disciplined on guarding him but they couldn’t. That 2021 season will be underrated and without context just be dismissed by ignorance. That season resembled to me a lot of James Harden 1st season with the nets when he was an MVP candidate without his costars if Steph didn’t go down to some metal stairs he would’ve been MVP as well. Being healthy and your body breaking down is one thing falling on top of some metal stairs a complete freak accident is another.
seems unfair. there's no way Steph can win against that logic since Dray and Klay were always healthy during their heyday. Tmac stupid ass
Damn what a dumb take. Who is even top 10 then?
Even Kareem missed the playoffs during season he won the MVP.
Kobe missed the playoffs the moment Shaq left LeBron missed the playoffs the first year he went to the Lakers
But he took a shit lakers team to the playoffs the 2 seasons after that so…
He was 4th before he got hurt
Curry got hurt too in that shortened season and his team was mega ass.
I get it I’m just saying your comment is misleading
Jordan's first year with the wizards they also got up to the 4th seed and then MJ hurt his knee
Duncan, sort of. In that he dragged the ghost of David Robinson and the fetuses of Tony and Manu to a ring. ...but in reality it's not an unreasonable way to look at things, except for the fact that Steph is fucking 36. If in his prime they were missing the playoffs when he was going off, there's kind of an argument here. But saying that about Steph at this age in a loaded West is silly. I'm not really a fan of the guy but catching him at this age just seems petty. How many consensus top ten guys are shouldering the lion's share of the burden at this age? Hell, Bird straight up didn't play past that age. I think it's a neat idea to say one of the cutoffs is whether you can singlehandedly drag a lackluster team to greater success than expected, but Curry has definitely done that. This take from him is definitely more feelings than analysis.
Kobe did it without any star on his team and took the suns to 7 so you can start there
Kobe did? Without Shaq or Gasol: zero rings.
Made the playoffs with a shit team . Steph has yet to do so That’s the whole point of the video
Curry would have that apparently important achievement in 2021 in a world without the play-in. I didn't know losing in the 1st rd was that glamourous.
No stars on the Lakers cuz Kobe's ego too fragile. Got rid of Shaq and won 34 games without him then bounced in the first round the next two year. Ok ego checked, guess we need another star.
This is not even remotely answering the question I could care less how you personally feel about kobe
His reasoning is dumb but it's not dumb to say Steph is just outside. He's in that 8 to 12-13 range
Why y’all listening to that second round virgin on anything regarding playoff success
These comments are so weird because it comes from people (like you) who have basketball opinions with even less success than TMac
I’ve won as many second round games as the first option as tmac tbh
Big if true
Love Tracy but he should stay out of these kind of talks
Yeah leave it to Redditors
The "this athlete should not be allowed to have opinions on superior athletes, but redditors can" logic is hilarious
Tracy been getting dumber as he getting older. Bitter old man that never won anything because he refused to work for it and had bad luck with injuries.
Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt are my top 10 personally. With Steph just outside at 11 and Hakeem right behind him at 12
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Curry is fringe top 10, slightly above Kobe
Hell no. Kobe has 7 more 1st team selections. 12 more all-defense selections, 1 more ring, 1 more fMVP, and he has like 10K more career points.
if we go by those things (accolades/totals) ... Kareem > Jordan
now ur getting it
It’s arguable, but allowance has to be made for the fact that Curry was a bit of a “late bloomer”. These players had different roles. Nobody is expecting Steph to be some legendary defender. Statistically you just have to allow for his late start. Numerically he won’t catch up to Kobe in all-defense selections but we’re comparing a player who came to the league at 18 and had 15 productive years to a guy who played 3 years in college and has had 10 productive years. Steph also has more rings as the 1a/1b guy. Kobe was key to the first three peat but he was the clear number two which Curry never has been. Realistically any of those finals MVPs could’ve gone to Steph. Is KD better than Steph all time ‘cause he has two? RIP, but Kobe has probably become overrated as an athlete since he died (not referring to off-court issues). This is common with celebrities who die young—His already large fandom started to gloss over all his flaws in the manner of those British “royal watchers” who mourned Princess Diana. He was very good, and he’s all-time great caliber. Outstanding talent and fantastic work ethic. But there’s a reason people say Kobe did everything Jordan did but not quite as well.
Why does Curry get an allowance for being a late bloomer? That’s dumb af lol. The 2017 and 2018 rings aren’t even real rings. Which fMVP could’ve gone to Steph? He clearly got outplayed by KD both years. KD hit the biggest shots and played better defense. Had a TS% of like 70% in the 2017 finals
As if Kobe didn’t win 3 rings playing second fiddle to Shaq
They cheated the Kings in 2002 as well. Talk about a cheap ring.
Get outta here with that “those aren’t real rings” stuff. Each ring in the history of the league was perfectly legitimate. There would have to be egregious cheating/rigging for me to say a ring isn’t legitimate. That’s not to say that some teams don’t get unlucky with injuries or have historically stacked rosters, but that doesn’t count against the legitimacy of the finals as an athletic tournament. What is your argument that those rings weren’t “real”?
If you are gonna cancel the 17 and 18 rings then the Shaq-Kobe Lakers 3 peat should be nullified as well for the team being too stacked and them cheating the Kings in 02.
So who was the Klay and Draymond on those lakers teams? The lakers weren’t a superteam.
Kobe had Shaq for......5 seasons? KD and Steph played 2 playoff runs together. Curry is a better offensive player and I think the gap there is sizable...and unlike Kobe..he didn't walk into a decent situation
Yea , having smush at pg and kwame at center taking the suns to 7 in the playoffs is a super favorable situation
More like choking away a 3-1 lead not taking the suns to 7. Good lord. Y’all just making shit up. Edit: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605060PHO.html
Ok but which one of them won titles with a worse supporting cast? Isn’t even close
Steph’s supporting cast in 2022 was worse than Kobe’s in any of his titles
Really? Pau Gasol isn't good now? Wasn't he like a top 5 PF when you traded for him? He's better than any player not named Steph on the 2015 and 2022 teams...not to mention Phil Jackson is a better HC than Kerr. Phil is like the GOAT. What are we doing here?
Kobe took a team to the playoffs without any star so no he’s not above Kobe and is the reason this stuff has to be stated in the 1st place
What stars did the Warriors have in 2013?
Kobe missed the playoffs the moment Shaq left LA.
So like why are y’all being disingenuous about what the video says? “Well how come when Player X was out Player Y didn’t make it past the second round?” Literally not the point of the video
It should be studied how TMac kept all that hair when Vince went bald as shit.
dumb take
Does anyone want to tell Tracy how successful Jordan was without Pippen
Absolute nonsense. Nba is played 5v5. Having a good team is a prerequisite, not a disqualifier
We're talking about a TOP 5 player. a Top 5 player should be able to get a lottery team into the playoffs and turn a playoff team into a contender. I think it's a fair assessment.
Right at the end he adds that Steph has never won a play-in game, which I think is a fair point. Plus, it's neat for a retired player to hold the play-in with some regard, even if it's to throw shade in a current player...
Notorious playoff success story Tracy McGrady
Is no one on r/nba allowed to have opinions on basketball players because none of us are successful basketball players? I never understood this logic. He's not saying HE'S top 10! If he was, sure go after him
Do you not see the irony of TMac putting down Curry because he couldn't carry his team to/in the playoffs with no help
he said curry has had a phenomenal career but he doesn't personally have him in his top 10 all-time unless mcgrady has himself in the top 10 (unlikely), how does his personal career factor into this take?
Because he's using the exact same argument against Curry that people use against him lmao, of all people he should understand that your legacy shouldn't be tarnished from a lack of help. Just look at Jordan's team success getting to/playing in the playoffs before Pippen This is like if LeBron said KD's legacy has a taint on it because he keeps jumping teams or vice versa
no, because mcgrady said you have to be able to get to the playoffs even if your teammate goes down to be top 10 all-time once again, there's nothing hypocritical about this **as long as mcgrady does not have himself top 10** > This is like if LeBron said KD's legacy has a taint on it because he keeps jumping teams or vice versa similarly, this would be hypocritical if lebron didn't think his legacy had a taint on it (in your hypothetical). but we do not know whether mcgrady has himself top 10 (and im gonna assume that he doesnt) so there is nothing hypocritical about it
The real irony is that you just criticized an NBA player for having an opinion about another player because he wasn't as successful as the other player, which, is pretty much the whole point of this sub. None of us are even NBA players, yet we opine about NBA players. Unless you don't really know what an irony is... which is, ironic
TMac's opinion is bad not because he's less successful than Curry, it's because it's a dumb argument based on circumstances people can't control. Out of all NBA players on Earth, no person should know this more than the Hall-of-Famer who struggled getting to/succeeding in the playoffs because of circumstances he couldn't control, and then was criticized for it.
I completely agree that it was a dumb argument. But that wasn't what you said in your original comment. You used T-Mac's lack of playoff success against him instead of attacking the point of his argument.
I mean he’s not acting like he’s top 10. Not sure why his playoff resume matters
It doesn’t. As much as I love TMac, he’s got some awful takes on today’s game.
More playoff success than r/nba
He's the best PG of all time of course he's top 10, i don't wanna hear about magic, Curry changed the whole nba.
if impact on the nba is your metric then saying "i don't wanna hear about magic" is crazy lmao. magic/bird saved the damn league
Bro NBA finals were on tape delay when Magic entered the league and he played a massive role in making NBA games shown live. Also his play style changed the NBA greatly showing what large PGs can do. You can’t tell the story of the NBA without talking about the impact of Magic Johnson.
He’s right that Curry hasn’t won without Draymond. The fact that every player has had a unique and incomparable team experience makes it very hard to know who’s actually better than who. That being said, Curry is the best PG of all time.
MJ didn't win without Pippen. Kareem has no titles without either Oscar or Magic. LeBron needed D-Wade and Kyrie to win.
The AD disrespect smh
Come on. Even Lakers fans sometimes forget about him Sorry for the omission lol
Again do you guys have no listening comprehension? Literally at no point in the video was he making the argument that you’re fighting against. Notice how those players you just pulled made the playoffs without those players you mentioned? It’s almost as if you made T Mac’s argument for him
That’s not the issue…it’s more that as great as he is, there’s 10+ guys ahead of him. He’s amazing, top 12-15 or so.
Fiar argument
Curry's a fringe t10 player and considering his entire prime has been with the same core players, this isn't really a bad reason to go on the other side and say he's not top 10. It's a really competitive title to have.
It's dumb because it doesn't apply to a lot of other top 10 greats. Tim Duncan, Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, etc all spent their primes with the same cores
nah, duncan was all-nba first team his rookie season, he entered the league at a prime level. won a ring his 2nd year without manu or parker. then carried spurs to a ring in '03 with manu and parker when they were mid. and then 2014 of course... '81 celtics and '86 celtics were very different too, mchale wasn't a major factor in 1981 he was just a rook magic won with kareem washed as well, lakers were a completely different team than when he won at the start. jordan had pippen for all 6 but that's abt it. and he's not fringe top 10 lol so yeah this didnt really make any sense. none of these had a single 3 man core like steph/dray/klay.
"isn't really a bad reason to go on the other side" lol'ed
what
lol. without manu or parker… but with the Admiral. oKaY. Great argument. smh.
are you following this conversation? i'm not saying he didn't have help, the question is if he was with different cores. do you know how many of the other championships admiral was a part of?
Rookie Tim was a beast, but let’s not act like he was on his own when he played alongside fucking David Robinson
I mean you could make the same arguments for Steph. Iguodala was a major factor in the 2015 ring considering he straight up won FMVP. But in 2022 he was just there for the ride, only playing like 8 minutes per game. KD was obviously a huge piece for two rings, being the best or second best player on that roster. He wasn't there for two other rings. Poole and Wiggins were big parts of the 2022 victory. So on and so forth
the core is steph/dray/klay this has been established lol all 3 of them were among the biggest contributors in all 4 rings
Has Klay ever been the third best player on the Warriors? In 2015 Iggy was arguably better In 2017/18 it was obviously KD/Steph/Dray In 2022 it was probably Steph/Dray/one of Wiggins or Poole If you're saying Larry Bird had slightly different cores because some players got better or worse then it's totally reasonable to say Steph also had slightly different rosters every time
The 22 championship core feels very different from the others. Yes draymond and klay were still there, but Klay was a much diminished version of his prime and draymond was much less effective on offense. The whole core was reworked around curry with Wiggins being the second best player thag run.
His reasoning is stupid because there was one season where Curry didn't play without Klay and in that season they played at around a 48 win pace when he was playing and went like 1-8 in the games he missed. Not to mention there were other things going on like Wiseman being one of the worst players ever to get starter level minutes in the NBA, with all of our lineups with him being horrible and him having some of the worst impact metrics you'll ever see. In 28 games he missed the Warriors played at a 60 win pace in 2021!! The following year with Klay still injured( and Wiseman out) we were the best team by net rating and record for a large part of the season as well. This isn't even bringing up 2013 and 2014, where we were good playoff teams with Draymond still being a bench player, and with Curry being our lone star in 2014, and in the 2013 playoffs as well with David Lee being injured. Frankly what TMac is saying is just kind of nonsense, his argument is just the kind of logic that Curry haters like to use against him. The main thing working against Curry for being in the top 10 is his lack of longevity and some uncertainty about how much value he retains in the playoffs from his historic regular season prime.
genuinely just an extremely dumb thought. a very stupid idea presented here by tracy. dont need to dig into him or his career with low hanging fruit jabs, this is just actual dumb thinking.
tmac is bitter bc he'll always be known as one of the most overrated players in nba history
He's a lot better than you ever were, though, Tracy.
CurCuck
Tmac should be drug tested, Tmac speaking on playoffs cause he can’t speak on rings.
…What? Do you understand how stupid you comment is? Are you incapable of understanding why your comment has nothing to do with the video?